04.29.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 28th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:17 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

*mib_5simcr (i=c94433cd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9c3d25628e3f732a) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 28 14:11
schestowitz	Sardine?	Apr 28 14:12
schestowitz	Is that the logo?	Apr 28 14:12
oiaohm	No the isntaller is 10 megs	Apr 28 14:12
schestowitz	Some of Microsoft’s latest failures: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/…	Apr 28 14:12
oiaohm	Yes 10 megs of disk space and it works.	Apr 28 14:12
schestowitz	Some of Microsoft’s latest failures: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/…	Apr 28 14:12
oiaohm	Nice list.	Apr 28 14:15
oiaohm	Now what would be warped is running a poll on the next prediced MS department to go.	Apr 28 14:16
DaemonFC	Windows 7 offers nothing of substance over Vista, it seems like everything they’re bragging about is also being backported	Apr 28 14:16
DaemonFC	including DirectX 11	Apr 28 14:17
DaemonFC	so I’m still waiting to see exactly what they say you’re buying	Apr 28 14:17
DaemonFC	this smells of another Windows Me	Apr 28 14:17
oiaohm	Most likely.	Apr 28 14:18
oiaohm	From the pictures I saw of windows 8 it very much looked like the .net prototype OS ms has been working on.	Apr 28 14:18
oiaohm	Every time they do a complete change its a mess.	Apr 28 14:19
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DaemonFC	well, the new .Net is being backported, the new DirectX is being backported, the new Windows Media Player is being backported, and the new Internet Explorer HAS been backported	Apr 28 14:19
DaemonFC	so really what else is there?	Apr 28 14:19
DaemonFC	oh yeah, and performance is pretty much exactly the same	Apr 28 14:20
DaemonFC	sounds like they’re really selling Windows Mojave	Apr 28 14:20
DaemonFC		Apr 28 14:20
oiaohm	MS is really in a end game.	Apr 28 14:21
oiaohm	You have seen the costs quoted to build Linux.	Apr 28 14:21
oiaohm	Its a scary ammount of money to build a OS.	Apr 28 14:21
oiaohm	Truely sorting out windows would eat up a large sections of MS bank account.	Apr 28 14:22
DaemonFC	no, Vista is a radical departure from XP, and not all of it is bad, but they really soured the deal with the extra DRM and not optimizing any of it	Apr 28 14:23
DaemonFC	product activation in XP RTM wasn’t really all that invasive and you only had to do it once, but Vista always suspects that you really stole it and are trying to pull a fast one	Apr 28 14:24
DaemonFC	I think XP’s product activation stopped all the “pirates” the thing was every going to stop	Apr 28 14:25
DaemonFC	and Vista’s just went entirely too far	Apr 28 14:25
DaemonFC	*ever	Apr 28 14:25
oiaohm	XP product activation worries me.	Apr 28 14:26
oiaohm	What will happen at end of life.	Apr 28 14:26
DaemonFC	Microsoft has already decided that	Apr 28 14:26
DaemonFC	they said before it is end of lifed, they’ll provide a tool to remove the product activator	Apr 28 14:27
DaemonFC	I doubt XP will be of any value on a new system come the middle of 2014	Apr 28 14:27
DaemonFC	so I don’t doubt them	Apr 28 14:27
schestowitz	Is Microsoft Live Dead Yet? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04…	Apr 28 14:28
DaemonFC	to refuse to reactivate it on a handful of ancient systems that can’t run Windows 7/8 at that point would just anger customers and possibly provoke them to not buy Windows next time	Apr 28 14:29
DaemonFC	so it would make more sense for them to just disable the activator then abandon XP	Apr 28 14:29
DaemonFC	Microsoft supported Windows 3.1 in some forms til 2005 and I don’t see any high demand to “pirate” that	Apr 28 14:30
schestowitz	RMS would need to wear a suit and say words like “innovation” to be taken seriously	Apr 28 14:30
DaemonFC	so when they ditch XP it’ll be the same age as 3.1 was	Apr 28 14:30
schestowitz	DaemonFC: is there any real PLAN (lime INNOVA~) for Vista8?	Apr 28 14:31
schestowitz	Or is it another coat of paint?	Apr 28 14:32
schestowitz	A la Vista7?	Apr 28 14:32
schestowitz	Nothing about security	Apr 28 14:32
schestowitz	Nothing about advantage	Apr 28 14:32
schestowitz	Just ‘newer’	Apr 28 14:32
DaemonFC	well, speculation has it that IE 8 will be the last Internet Explorer to use Trident	Apr 28 14:32
schestowitz	More vapourware	Apr 28 14:32
schestowitz	More purchases	Apr 28 14:32
DaemonFC	apparently they are cooking up something new	Apr 28 14:32
schestowitz	DaemonFC: ie8 is a pig	Apr 28 14:32
schestowitz	resource pig	Apr 28 14:32
schestowitz	Not that I tried, I saw benhies	Apr 28 14:32
DaemonFC	IE 8 is a lot faster on Vista than XP	Apr 28 14:32
DaemonFC	I’m not just saying that, it is	Apr 28 14:33
DaemonFC	I ran it through Sunspider in XP and vista	Apr 28 14:33
DaemonFC	it’s almsot twice as fast on scripting in Vista	Apr 28 14:33
DaemonFC	they obviously didn’t go through a great deal of trouble to make it work well on XP	Apr 28 14:33
DaemonFC	IE 8 on XP is a bad port, and some of it is really just not there because XP isn’t capable, and some of it was left out on purpose even though it would have been trivial to add	Apr 28 14:35
DaemonFC	again, I don’t like IE but some things it does make more sense than say Firefox	Apr 28 14:38
DaemonFC	Firefox makes it really easy to write a bad add-on that gets no testing and can do all kinds of horrible things to the browser	Apr 28 14:38
oiaohm	Windows 3.11 users run out of applciations for that were modern.	Apr 28 14:38
oiaohm	XP is showign a lot more staying power than windows 3.11	Apr 28 14:39
DaemonFC	Firefox add-ons are easier to write so all the substandard add-on writers make add-ons for that	Apr 28 14:39
DaemonFC	XP really doesn’t scale well	Apr 28 14:40
DaemonFC	there was a X86-64 version (I have that) but it was never for retail sale	Apr 28 14:40
DaemonFC	so most people never got a copy	Apr 28 14:40
oiaohm	Firefox covered up the interal choas of the javascript with simple to write addons.	Apr 28 14:40
DaemonFC	if nothing else stops XP, then the bitrot and the no support for more than 2.8 gigs of RAM on a system with a modern video card will	Apr 28 14:41
oiaohm	With virtualisation to run side by side you don’t need it to scale well.	Apr 28 14:41
DaemonFC	you really should dig up a copy of the X86-64 version of any OS	Apr 28 14:41
DaemonFC	if the goal is to run well on a modern system	Apr 28 14:41
oiaohm	I have a copy of XP 64bit and Vista 64 bit.	Apr 28 14:41
oiaohm	MS registered partner you are talking to.	Apr 28 14:42
oiaohm	I got them extreamly cheeply.	Apr 28 14:42
DaemonFC	XP is better for raw performance	Apr 28 14:42
DaemonFC	Vista is better for networking, audio stack, etc.	Apr 28 14:42
DaemonFC	multithreading is also much better on Vista than XP can give you	Apr 28 14:42
DaemonFC	brings me back to XP runs well on old machines because they are old machines	Apr 28 14:43
DaemonFC	and don’t need it to scale	Apr 28 14:43
DaemonFC	you’re crazy or stupid to really seriously want to run XP on any new system you get	Apr 28 14:43
oiaohm	XP comes on new netbooks.	Apr 28 14:44
DaemonFC	I’m not wild over Vista, but again, XP does not scale	Apr 28 14:44
oiaohm	And most likely will be still on them until 2012 at least.	Apr 28 14:44
DaemonFC	if you have an old system I encourage you to stay on XP if you have it and like it because Vista will indeed hurt more than help	Apr 28 14:44
twitter	so what?	Apr 28 14:44
oiaohm	So that means from new machines to end of life is 2 years.	Apr 28 14:44
twitter	xp on netbooks sucks	Apr 28 14:44
DaemonFC	no, it means that PC’s have undergone rapid expansion and XP cannot cope with that	Apr 28 14:45
oiaohm	Windows 7 is still sucking more on them.	Apr 28 14:45
twitter	xp on desktops sucks too, but it really sucks on a netbook	Apr 28 14:45
twitter	gnu/linux is better	Apr 28 14:45
DaemonFC	Windows Vista was not designed with netbooks in mind	Apr 28 14:45
DaemonFC	it is far too much for them to handle	Apr 28 14:45
twitter	I’m not sure you could call the way Vista was built “design”	Apr 28 14:46
DaemonFC	netbooks have puny 32-bit processors, maybe 1 Ghz, maybe 512 megs of RAM	Apr 28 14:46
DaemonFC	that really does sound like something from 6-8 years ago on a desktop	Apr 28 14:46
twitter	this laptop has a puny PIII, Debian works great on it.	Apr 28 14:46
twitter	why would I even think about windows?	Apr 28 14:47
DaemonFC	well, on a Pentium 3 that’s the least of your worries	Apr 28 14:47
DaemonFC	I agree	Apr 28 14:47
DaemonFC		Apr 28 14:47
DaemonFC	I wouldn’t really enjoy using anything non-trivial on a Pentium 3	Apr 28 14:48
DaemonFC	You can force a copy of Linux on it, but it has to be fairly stripped and contrived	Apr 28 14:48
DaemonFC	really no different than throwing an old copy of Windows on it from a performance perspective	Apr 28 14:48
oiaohm	Pentium 3 is not that slow.	Apr 28 14:48
DaemonFC	Linux is really too good for a Pentium 3	Apr 28 14:49
oiaohm	Linux desktops really are bloated.	Apr 28 14:49
DaemonFC	you need to lobotomize it to get it to work well cause the hardware can’t use any of the new/cool/modern stuff	Apr 28 14:49
oiaohm	Not realy	Apr 28 14:49
DaemonFC	well, all operating systems are “bloated” more and more	Apr 28 14:49
oiaohm	Pentium3 running xfce is not bad.	Apr 28 14:49
DaemonFC	they have to be because the hardware is more capable	Apr 28 14:49
oiaohm	But common like kde and gnome hurt.	Apr 28 14:50
DaemonFC	XFCE= My condolences	Apr 28 14:50
DaemonFC	I tried it and found I got the same performance, but the desktop was far too anemic	Apr 28 14:50
DaemonFC	1 GB RAM is like the price of a take out pizza	Apr 28 14:51
DaemonFC	it’s obscenely cheap	Apr 28 14:51
oiaohm	Ubuntu XFCE? There alterations doubled it ram usage and halfed it speed in placed.	Apr 28 14:51
DaemonFC	arguing over RAM anymore is basically like complaining about fuel mileage on a car that runs on water	Apr 28 14:51
DaemonFC	I filled all the sockets just to have it	Apr 28 14:52
DaemonFC	cause it beats having the OS hitting the swap file	Apr 28 14:52
oiaohm	Lower the processor the more important not hitting swap is.	Apr 28 14:52
DaemonFC	if you have 4 GB of RAM, it’ll cost you about $32	Apr 28 14:53
DaemonFC	and no OS including Vista will easily overrun it	Apr 28 14:53
oiaohm	Computer would is to the stage calulators were a long time ago.	Apr 28 14:53
oiaohm	Remember they were costly from top to bottom. These days bottom models are less than 10 dollars for a calulator.	Apr 28 14:54
DaemonFC	the time to complain over RAM was 10 years ago, when Windows 98 wanted 64 megs and your Windows 95 system had 16 megs, and the new RAM was about $200	Apr 28 14:54
DaemonFC		Apr 28 14:54
oiaohm	Difference is now device markers are wanting to bring the entry level price down.	Apr 28 14:55
oiaohm	So in 10 years time a entry level machine might be 10 dollars.	Apr 28 14:55
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DaemonFC	there’s a market flooded with lots of competition and more gadgets than people actually want to buy	Apr 28 14:55
DaemonFC	the markup is going down	Apr 28 14:55
DaemonFC	and the manufacturing process is more sound	Apr 28 14:55
DaemonFC	every time you add a competitor, the price goes down	Apr 28 14:56
oiaohm	Lower failure rates equal lower manufacturing costs.	Apr 28 14:56
DaemonFC	if there was 5-6 companies making operating systems and competing fiercely	Apr 28 14:56
DaemonFC	the OS would be a $15 afterthought too	Apr 28 14:56
oiaohm	Embed Linux price is less than that.	Apr 28 14:57
oiaohm	You are lucky to get 5 dollars for a embed OS.	Apr 28 14:57
oiaohm	What is going on is the embeded makers are producing items to compete with desktop makers.	Apr 28 14:58
schestowitz	Microsoft uses Linux http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/2…	Apr 28 14:59
schestowitz	> ”<DaemonFC> Vista is better for networking, audio stack, etc.”	Apr 28 15:00
schestowitz	Very much the opposite	Apr 28 15:00
DaemonFC	XP’s audio stack was interrupt driven, not timer driven, it blasted the audio to all possible endpoints	Apr 28 15:01
DaemonFC	it was basically a mess to deal with and introduced artifacts	Apr 28 15:01
DaemonFC	and was totally inappropriate for raw audio editing	Apr 28 15:02
schestowitz	DRM messes things up	Apr 28 15:02
DaemonFC	yeah, well, I don’t use files with DRM	Apr 28 15:02
DaemonFC	I said raw audio	Apr 28 15:02
DaemonFC	XP was garbage for that	Apr 28 15:03
schestowitz	Why Vista sounds worse < http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology… >	Apr 28 15:03
oiaohm	Linux audio stack is not perfect.	Apr 28 15:03
DaemonFC	it’s obvious that the way the Mac OS handles audio is better because Vista did it, and now ALSA and Pulseaudio are both trying to follow along	Apr 28 15:03
DaemonFC	and introducing much pain for users of that	Apr 28 15:04
twitter	Uhh, guys, this PIII runs great. E16 with accelerated video. It runs everything just fine under Lenny and I used Etch to do my thesis writing. I’m not sure anyone would call that “stripped down”	Apr 28 15:04
oiaohm	Linux has a major nightmare in kernel.	Apr 28 15:04
oiaohm	Lack of threaded interperts so you cannot override a incoming interp for audio.	Apr 28 15:05
DaemonFC	ALSA and Pulse both have a lot of bugs, and buggy apps that expect the bugs in current and older versions of Pulse and ALSA don’t help	Apr 28 15:05
DaemonFC	it’s cauing users to prefer the 90′s style sound system behavior	Apr 28 15:05
twitter	I have not noticed any of that. :)	Apr 28 15:05
oiaohm	Pulse audio follows the long tradition of usermode audio server.	Apr 28 15:06
oiaohm	I hope they give it up soon.	Apr 28 15:06
DaemonFC	trying to make Linux into a low latency system period is pretty ugly	Apr 28 15:06
DaemonFC	you expose a lot of long time bugs that stay hidden so well when the system is not preemptible	Apr 28 15:06
DaemonFC	it can even disturb device drivers	Apr 28 15:07
DaemonFC	and cause them to make the system halt	Apr 28 15:07
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oiaohm	Lot of the not preemptible stuff is slowly disappearing.	Apr 28 15:08
DaemonFC	progress is being made, but not quickly, even they admit that a lot of it is caused by old code that was not well written and is poorly documented	Apr 28 15:08
DaemonFC	that all depends on the big kernel lock	Apr 28 15:08
oiaohm	big kernel lock is a fairly major bit.	Apr 28 15:09
DaemonFC	they rewrote a lot of the ReiserFS file system driver in 2.6.30	Apr 28 15:09
oiaohm	But there are others just as bad.	Apr 28 15:09
DaemonFC	because it was either that or ditch it	Apr 28 15:09
oiaohm	Interpet handling is still stone age in Linux.	Apr 28 15:10
oiaohm	As more of the real time tree merges things will get better.	Apr 28 15:10
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oiaohm	There is also a BLK in the way Linux handles mount and unmounting filesystems.	Apr 28 15:12
DaemonFC	people are trying to make Linux do things it was not intended for	Apr 28 15:17
DaemonFC	Torvalds has a sense of humor about that though	Apr 28 15:18
DaemonFC		Apr 28 15:18
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oiaohm	Most of the things that stuff up RT are also stuffing up large servers.	Apr 28 15:20
oiaohm	Some of the BLK removeds have double performance of massive machines.	Apr 28 15:20
DaemonFC	http://answers.yahoo.com/quest…	Apr 28 15:20
DaemonFC	“My connection is 54 Mbps, so it shouldn’t be a problem..”	Apr 28 15:21
DaemonFC	rofl	Apr 28 15:21
oiaohm	Seen bigger.	Apr 28 15:21
DaemonFC	my connection is 1,000 MBps B-)	Apr 28 15:21
DaemonFC	cause that’s what the adapter says!	Apr 28 15:21
DaemonFC	idiots	Apr 28 15:21
oiaohm	I have been on a firber connection 40GBps	Apr 28 15:22
oiaohm	That was nice and I miss it.	Apr 28 15:22
DaemonFC	dear god	Apr 28 15:23
DaemonFC	I can’t believe this	Apr 28 15:23
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*DaemonFC takes a screenshot		Apr 28 15:23
DaemonFC	http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/…	Apr 28 15:25
DaemonFC	SP2 is not even out yet and they’re patching it	Apr 28 15:25
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mib_pyj2r1	never did like the attitude of Mikro$quash	Apr 28 15:29
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mib_pyj2r1	Suse for all it is worth, isn’t really that great	Apr 28 15:30
mib_pyj2r1	started in Red-Hat Fedora, found Debian more to my liking when it would become the only thing that worked on a Sun Ultra box	Apr 28 15:31
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schestowitz	Charles McCreevy is Still Advancing Software Patents in Europe < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/… >	Apr 28 15:32
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DaemonFC	oh that’s funny	Apr 28 15:35
DaemonFC	now my system isn’t sayign Evaluation Copy anymore	Apr 28 15:35
DaemonFC		Apr 28 15:35
DaemonFC	http://img48.imageshack.us/img48…	Apr 28 15:39
schestowitz	Apple and Microsoft for software patents: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/2…	Apr 28 16:26
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I offered to redesign our library’s website and audio book system and never heard back from them	Apr 28 16:29
DaemonFC	even told them I’d do it for free	Apr 28 16:29
DaemonFC	I wonder if I could file a lawsuit against them	Apr 28 16:29
schestowitz	What was their problem?	Apr 28 16:30
schestowitz	Was it bribed $20 million by Microsoft like the lIb. of Congress?	Apr 28 16:30
DaemonFC	http://www.huntingtonpub.lib.in.us/	Apr 28 16:30
DaemonFC	using 1.5 MB 2,204 x 1,364 pixel jpegs for thumbnails?	Apr 28 16:30
schestowitz	Maps by Microsoft	Apr 28 16:30
schestowitz	(Expedia)	Apr 28 16:30
schestowitz	What are they, pimps for Ballmer?	Apr 28 16:31
DaemonFC	<meta name=”GENERATOR” content=”Microsoft FrontPage 4.0″>	Apr 28 16:31
schestowitz	LOL http://www.huntingtonpub.lib.in.u…	Apr 28 16:31
schestowitz	So big, yet so small	Apr 28 16:31
schestowitz	And so slow for modem users	Apr 28 16:31
DaemonFC	been like that for years	Apr 28 16:32
schestowitz	On what basis can one sue them?	Apr 28 16:32
DaemonFC	I pay taxes	Apr 28 16:32
schestowitz	Crappiness in Web design?	Apr 28 16:32
schestowitz	DaemonFC: I see…..	Apr 28 16:33
DaemonFC	those taxes pay for non-interoperable formats on their site	Apr 28 16:33
schestowitz	Well, taxes are still low	Apr 28 16:33
schestowitz	DaemonFC: which formats?	Apr 28 16:33
DaemonFC	the supreme court has ruled that you have standing to sue the government as a taxpayer	Apr 28 16:33
DaemonFC	DRM’d WMA audio books	Apr 28 16:33
schestowitz	What books is in their posssession?	Apr 28 16:33
DaemonFC	Frontpage generated proprietary HTML	Apr 28 16:33
schestowitz	I always wonder how much selection of books and curriculum can affect perception	Apr 28 16:34
schestowitz	People’s understanding ofd historey	Apr 28 16:34
schestowitz	Nothing about genocide at dawn of the nation, religious zealotry of the founding father and invasion/expansionism	Apr 28 16:34
DaemonFC	they had no books about any Linux distribution til I turned in a book request for several	Apr 28 16:34
DaemonFC	Microsoft sends them Windows/Office training stuff for free	Apr 28 16:34
schestowitz	Each country has its share of embarrassment it won’t teach	Apr 28 16:34
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schestowitz	Propaganistic perspective of history, to keep kids patriotic and loyal before they are hard to control	Apr 28 16:35
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DaemonFC	of course	Apr 28 16:35
schestowitz	The poll/brainwash cycle.. like a man dipping a foot in a cold pool.	Apr 28 16:35
schestowitz	Do we have public support for Kuwait?	Apr 28 16:36
schestowitz	No?	Apr 28 16:36
DaemonFC	public opinion surveys are almost always push pulls	Apr 28 16:36
DaemonFC	designed to make you read their side of the view in a paragraph	Apr 28 16:36
schestowitz	Let’s have a girl stage a crying act where we train her to tell lies	Apr 28 16:36
schestowitz	I only recently found out about it BTW	Apr 28 16:36
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DaemonFC	Zogby does that all the time	Apr 28 16:36
schestowitz	Microsoft’s polls and Novell’s too are push polls	Apr 28 16:36
schestowitz	They got caught	Apr 28 16:36
schestowitz	Also anti-Google polls	Apr 28 16:37
schestowitz	ISO is corrupt too. Push poll for OOXML.	Apr 28 16:37
DaemonFC	“Given that President Obama wants to raise taxes (On what?) for what has been called unnecessary spending (by Who?), do you agree with him?	Apr 28 16:37
DaemonFC	lol	Apr 28 16:37
DaemonFC	yeah, sure	Apr 28 16:37
DaemonFC	that’s not biaed	Apr 28 16:37
DaemonFC	*biased	Apr 28 16:37
schestowitz	Yes, I know the deal	Apr 28 16:37
schestowitz	Some people make a career from that stuff	Apr 28 16:38
schestowitz	Mastering the art of art manipulation and cooking financial results/polls/etc	Apr 28 16:38
_boo_	everything is corrupt in this world…	Apr 28 16:38
DaemonFC	the Republicans basically want to frame it in your mind as “Obama wants to raise your taxes by 20,000% to give to a newly married interracial gay couple who are burning the American flag and members of Al-Qaeda “	Apr 28 16:39
DaemonFC	and they’ll lie and cheat to make you believe that	Apr 28 16:39
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_boo_	lol	Apr 28 16:39
_boo_	may be it’s like that actually?	Apr 28 16:39
DaemonFC	maybe I allege that the Republicans are full of shit?	Apr 28 16:40
DaemonFC		Apr 28 16:40
_boo_	noo?	Apr 28 16:40
_boo_	obama is just less shitty than gore in some cases	Apr 28 16:40
DaemonFC	maybe they are so unbelievably bad at lying, it proves how many stupid people there are by the fact that they have any support?	Apr 28 16:40
_boo_	lol, every politician is LYING	Apr 28 16:41
_boo_	and i spelled LYING in caps on purpose	Apr 28 16:41
DaemonFC	meh, I feel a lot safer with the Democrats in the majority	Apr 28 16:41
_boo_	lol, you can’t feel yourself safe in this world	Apr 28 16:41
DaemonFC	the Republicans have torn down the First, Fourth, and Fifth amendments	Apr 28 16:41
DaemonFC	in under 8 years	Apr 28 16:41
DaemonFC	and have tried to go after the 14th as well	Apr 28 16:42
_boo_	what’s that amendments?	Apr 28 16:42
DaemonFC	freedom of speech, freedom from/of religion (depending on context, the right to be secure in your person or effects (no unwarranted search and seizures), the right to have a fair trial and not be compelled to testify against yourself, the right to representation by legal counsel	Apr 28 16:43
DaemonFC	and the supremacy of the Federal government over the states	Apr 28 16:43
DaemonFC	they’ve attacked, viciously, the core principles of the Constitution	Apr 28 16:44
DaemonFC	and then have the gall to say they want to protect it	Apr 28 16:44
_boo_	dude, you can’t rule a country that has several religions in it	Apr 28 16:44
DaemonFC	bastards	Apr 28 16:44
DaemonFC	spits	Apr 28 16:44
_boo_	it’s just dumb	Apr 28 16:44
DaemonFC	no, the first amendment says the government will not push religion of any kind	Apr 28 16:45
DaemonFC	it establishes that the government is secular and neutral	Apr 28 16:45
_boo_	freedom of speech… that’s just lol… EVERY government suppressed it ALWAYS	Apr 28 16:45
DaemonFC	and not to be hijacked by the religious elements	Apr 28 16:45
_boo_	the government should enforce christianity	Apr 28 16:45
DaemonFC	hell no	Apr 28 16:45
_boo_	if it’s european or there is majority of white	Apr 28 16:45
DaemonFC	I will never be a part of that, I refuse to acknowledge that they have any right to tell me how to live	Apr 28 16:45
DaemonFC	and if I had my say, they’d be put in a rocket and fired into the sun	Apr 28 16:46
DaemonFC	so they should be glad there are laws	Apr 28 16:46
DaemonFC		Apr 28 16:46
_boo_	religion in every country should be only 1	Apr 28 16:46
_boo_	what do you prefer	Apr 28 16:46
DaemonFC	Equal Protection anyone?	Apr 28 16:46
_boo_	christianity or islam?	Apr 28 16:47
DaemonFC	due process?	Apr 28 16:47
DaemonFC	I went to the hospital once and they asked me if I had a religious preference, I told them “Yes, I prefer they never invented any such thing”	Apr 28 16:47
DaemonFC		Apr 28 16:47
_boo_	you don’t even imagine what the world will look like if they never invented such thing	Apr 28 16:48
DaemonFC	we’d be at least several hundred years more advanced	Apr 28 16:48
DaemonFC	technologically	Apr 28 16:48
_boo_	nope	Apr 28 16:49
_boo_	this world won’t even exist XD	Apr 28 16:49
DaemonFC	they murdered scientists for hundreds of years	Apr 28 16:49
DaemonFC	burnt them at the stake	Apr 28 16:49
DaemonFC	crucified them	Apr 28 16:49
_boo_	side effects	Apr 28 16:49
_boo_	people were just not ready yet	Apr 28 16:49
DaemonFC	religious oppression is responsible for most of the bad things in this world	Apr 28 16:49
DaemonFC	it’s still entirely man-made	Apr 28 16:49
_boo_	nope	Apr 28 16:49
_boo_	side effects are man-implemented	Apr 28 16:49
DaemonFC	you don’t want to know what the world would be like without Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny	Apr 28 16:50
DaemonFC	oh wait….	Apr 28 16:50
DaemonFC		Apr 28 16:50
_boo_	they are nothing	Apr 28 16:50
DaemonFC	same as this god fellow	Apr 28 16:50
_boo_	nope?	Apr 28 16:50
DaemonFC	entirely a work of fiction	Apr 28 16:50
DaemonFC	for simple little minds	Apr 28 16:50
_boo_	you just don’t wanna know him	Apr 28 16:51
DaemonFC	tell you what	Apr 28 16:51
DaemonFC	tell him I’m in the phone book	Apr 28 16:51
_boo_	and yeah… there are plenty of little minds with religion or not	Apr 28 16:51
DaemonFC	give me a call and say “Hey, this is God, I exist”	Apr 28 16:51
_boo_	lol	Apr 28 16:51
DaemonFC	or maybe work some crowds with fish and bread?	Apr 28 16:51
DaemonFC	I doubt it	Apr 28 16:51
_boo_	you’re not capable to do that	Apr 28 16:52
DaemonFC	I pray to Joe Pesci	Apr 28 16:52
DaemonFC	same 50% success ratio	Apr 28 16:52
_boo_	who’s dat	Apr 28 16:52
_boo_	XD	Apr 28 16:52
DaemonFC	http://www.realmofdarkness.net/sounds…	Apr 28 16:53
DaemonFC	hehe	Apr 28 16:53
_boo_	you don’t even imagine what darkness it	Apr 28 16:53
_boo_	is	Apr 28 16:53
_boo_	and it still goes allright with the god	Apr 28 16:54
DaemonFC	blah blah blah	Apr 28 16:54
DaemonFC	anyway, I need to take a leak	Apr 28 16:54
DaemonFC	Jeebus be with you	Apr 28 16:55
DaemonFC		Apr 28 16:55
_boo_	i’m not yet ready to leak	Apr 28 16:55
_boo_	not enough gin-tonic drunk	Apr 28 16:55
DaemonFC	http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o…	Apr 28 16:56
_boo_	XD	Apr 28 16:56
_boo_	black cats are cool	Apr 28 16:57
schestowitz	It rurns out we made FP of Reddit yesterday: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8fv…	Apr 28 16:59
_boo_	wtf…	Apr 28 17:01
_boo_	debian is sane	Apr 28 17:01
_boo_	i even installed it into my mostly windows-insanity box	Apr 28 17:01
_boo_	to keep things balanced	Apr 28 17:02
_boo_	lol… m$ novell	Apr 28 17:03
schestowitz	I’ve just posted about Obamaa[sic]‘s pick from Microsoft: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/28/…	Apr 28 17:04
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I used to be a manager at Walmart, I used to be a manager at Rent-A-Center	Apr 28 17:04
_boo_	XD “Microsoft Linux is now being called Windows 8.”	Apr 28 17:04
DaemonFC	if I took a job after that does that make me a spy or a shill?	Apr 28 17:04
DaemonFC	the guy that worked at Microsoft worked at Microsoft cause he was getting a paycheck, it’s a job, and he needed a job	Apr 28 17:05
_boo_	nooo	Apr 28 17:05
_boo_	he needed money	Apr 28 17:05
DaemonFC	I wouldn’t say that automatically makes him a suspect	Apr 28 17:05
_boo_	not a job	Apr 28 17:05
_boo_	yup	Apr 28 17:05
schestowitz	g2g bbl	Apr 28 17:06
_boo_	he’s overaddicted to m$ <– suspect	Apr 28 17:06
DaemonFC	there’s arguments for closed source software as well	Apr 28 17:06
DaemonFC	neither model is perfect, both have benefits	Apr 28 17:06
_boo_	arguments?	Apr 28 17:07
_boo_	do you want software to be closed source?	Apr 28 17:07
_boo_	DO YOU WANT software to be closed source? (to put it in another words)	Apr 28 17:07
DaemonFC	well, if Microsoft dropped DRM, got rid of “activation”, and charged a fair price, it would get rid of most of my disgust of them	Apr 28 17:07
_boo_	lol	Apr 28 17:08
_boo_	you’re living in a fictional world	Apr 28 17:08
_boo_	just like me	Apr 28 17:08
DaemonFC	90% of my problem with Microsoft is in those three things	Apr 28 17:08
_boo_	but mine is medieval	Apr 28 17:08
DaemonFC	not really cause I care about their source code	Apr 28 17:08
trmanco	hi all	Apr 28 17:08
_boo_	lol	Apr 28 17:09
_boo_	hi	Apr 28 17:09
DaemonFC	OK, lets imagine Windows Vista had no DRM for anything, no activation, and cost $50	Apr 28 17:09
_boo_	it’s easy to care about source code when there’s none	Apr 28 17:09
DaemonFC	I think you’d see a lot of complaints agaisnt them go away	Apr 28 17:09
_boo_	mkay, it has no payments and drm and activation	Apr 28 17:10
_boo_	only complaints?	Apr 28 17:10
DaemonFC	source code is not necessarily something that most people have any reason to care about	Apr 28 17:10
_boo_	lol	Apr 28 17:10
_boo_	yet another lol	Apr 28 17:10
DaemonFC	you can give yourself a hair cut in the mirror for free, but most people would rather pay a barber $10	Apr 28 17:11
DaemonFC	wouldn’t you agree?	Apr 28 17:11
_boo_	i don’t pay a barber	Apr 28 17:11
DaemonFC	just an example	Apr 28 17:11
_boo_	my hair are long	Apr 28 17:11
DaemonFC	there’s nothing wrong with paying someone else to do something for you	Apr 28 17:12
_boo_	and it’s 4$ payment here	Apr 28 17:12
_boo_	noooo?	Apr 28 17:12
DaemonFC	what is wrong is this system of DRM and patents	Apr 28 17:12
_boo_	you did the wrong thing	Apr 28 17:12
_boo_	completely wrong example	Apr 28 17:12
_boo_	i think that every1 should make anything concerned with himself himself	Apr 28 17:13
DaemonFC	I’d say that buying closed source software in itself is no more unethical than buying a pre-assembled car	Apr 28 17:13
_boo_	unless it’s not personal	Apr 28 17:13
DaemonFC	or a pre-assembled house	Apr 28 17:13
DaemonFC	or a bottle of soda that you don’t know how to make yourself	Apr 28 17:13
_boo_	DaemonFC	Apr 28 17:13
_boo_	i think quite different	Apr 28 17:13
_boo_	it’s like buying a jewel hand made	Apr 28 17:14
_boo_	but it SHOULD BE JEWEL	Apr 28 17:14
_boo_	NOT YET ANOTHER SHIT!	Apr 28 17:14
_boo_	to make money	Apr 28 17:14
DaemonFC	do I have the expertise or the time or the will to debug an OS I built from source?	Apr 28 17:14
DaemonFC	maybe, but I bet most people don’t	Apr 28 17:14
DaemonFC	or treat it as a hobby	Apr 28 17:14
_boo_	nope	Apr 28 17:15
DaemonFC	or just don’t have any reason to care	Apr 28 17:15
_boo_	and you don’t	Apr 28 17:15
_boo_	you can’t expertise linux kernel	Apr 28 17:15
DaemonFC	using Ubuntu is no different from Windows on that level	Apr 28 17:15
_boo_	nope?	Apr 28 17:15
DaemonFC	in that someone else sends you binary blobs and you just passively install them	Apr 28 17:15
_boo_	you just can’t distinguish	Apr 28 17:15
_boo_	dude, there’re addicted source hackers	Apr 28 17:16
DaemonFC	you’re along for the ride, not steering anything	Apr 28 17:16
_boo_	idk what that means	Apr 28 17:16
DaemonFC	if they decide to do something incredibly stupid, you can switch operating systems	Apr 28 17:16
DaemonFC	or live with it	Apr 28 17:16
_boo_	yup	Apr 28 17:17
_boo_	DaemonFC, i’m not completely against windows	Apr 28 17:17
_boo_	it should exist, but with 5% share	Apr 28 17:17
DaemonFC	Windows exists now for the same reason people bought it vs. proprietary UNIX	Apr 28 17:18
DaemonFC	in 1990	Apr 28 17:18
DaemonFC	too many varieties of Linux, all with different bugs, all with different implementation gaps and configuration settings, support options, and levels of incompatibility with one another	Apr 28 17:19
_boo_	and wtf?	Apr 28 17:19
_boo_	and not unix	Apr 28 17:19
_boo_	mac os rather	Apr 28 17:19
DaemonFC	same deal with proprietary UNIX 20 years ago	Apr 28 17:19
_boo_	no?	Apr 28 17:19
DaemonFC	the problem is the same	Apr 28 17:19
_boo_	o nope?	Apr 28 17:19
DaemonFC	that Linux is a loosely defined concept	Apr 28 17:19
_boo_	that’s lousy to say	Apr 28 17:19
DaemonFC	there is no authority on it, and if there is, it’s a matter of who you want to listen to	Apr 28 17:20
trmanco	well, I would love to see any windows version run 100% with it’s own generic drivers	Apr 28 17:20
DaemonFC	and consortium’s and committees give us things like OpenGL 3	Apr 28 17:20
_boo_	it won’t and it will not even deal with multimedia	Apr 28 17:20
DaemonFC	years late and features stripped	Apr 28 17:20
_boo_	lol, there should not be closed source dx	Apr 28 17:21
DaemonFC	DirectX has advanced because only one place can decide what it will be	Apr 28 17:21
DaemonFC	not dozens of companies slugging it out	Apr 28 17:21
_boo_	people who make sw for it should be just brainwashed	Apr 28 17:21
DaemonFC	reducing it to the lowest common denominator	Apr 28 17:21
_boo_	but dude	Apr 28 17:22
_boo_	will it be better if there’s a standard	Apr 28 17:22
DaemonFC	OpenGL 3 is a shell of what it was supposed to be	Apr 28 17:22
DaemonFC	years late	Apr 28 17:22
DaemonFC	with no real incentives to use it	Apr 28 17:22
DaemonFC	you had the CAD people against the video game companies	Apr 28 17:22
_boo_	STANDARD?	Apr 28 17:22
_boo_	there should be more than 1 STANDARD	Apr 28 17:22
_boo_	at least 2	Apr 28 17:22
_boo_	BUT they should be OPEN	Apr 28 17:23
DaemonFC	yeah, just as soon as many people with incompatible objectives tel lyou what the new standard is	Apr 28 17:23
DaemonFC	you can go ahead and use a safe and portable subset of it	Apr 28 17:23
_boo_	COMPLETELY	Apr 28 17:23
_boo_	dude, if you can make a jewel, make it	Apr 28 17:23
_boo_	and it should not be prohibited	Apr 28 17:23
DaemonFC	that’s what I’m saying ,there is one OpenGL “standard”, but there’s so many people fighting over control of the steering wheel	Apr 28 17:23
_boo_	but dx is no jewel	Apr 28 17:23
DaemonFC	Nvidia and ATI are in the back screaming “Are we there yet?” and kicking the seat	Apr 28 17:24
DaemonFC		Apr 28 17:24
DaemonFC	and that’s what caused the OpenGL 3 suckfest	Apr 28 17:24
_boo_	i think that ati is kicking nvidia	Apr 28 17:24
DaemonFC	nah	Apr 28 17:24
DaemonFC	ATI has no hardware that good	Apr 28 17:24
DaemonFC	theirs doesn’t even support CUDS or Physics processing	Apr 28 17:25
_boo_	REALLY?	Apr 28 17:25
DaemonFC	ATI is at least a generation behind Nvidia	Apr 28 17:25
DaemonFC	*CUDA	Apr 28 17:25
_boo_	cuda is nvidia	Apr 28 17:25
_boo_	ati has smth else	Apr 28 17:25
_boo_	i don’t remember the name	Apr 28 17:25
DaemonFC	and they use the documented slow and buggy Direct Rendering Manager in X	Apr 28 17:25
DaemonFC	which is another $20,000 toilet seat in itself	Apr 28 17:25
_boo_	dude, ati was cheaper when i bought some hd4870	Apr 28 17:26
DaemonFC	that’s my point, you either deal with an evil monopoly, or compromised standards that are all done by committee and leave huge chunks undefined\	Apr 28 17:26
DaemonFC	yeah, they have to be cheaper	Apr 28 17:26
DaemonFC	cause that’s kind of all they have	Apr 28 17:26
_boo_	and it performed much better than corresponding nvidias	Apr 28 17:27
_boo_	lol	Apr 28 17:27
_boo_	DaemonFC, you’re still dealing with proprietarity	Apr 28 17:27
*mib_cnw2kz (i=3c35c4f8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b9bb663d4f402e10) has joined #boycottnovell		Apr 28 17:27
*DaemonFC still likes having a combined GPU/PPSU with full DirectX 10.1 and OpenGL 3 compliance		Apr 28 17:27
*mib_cnw2kz has quit (Client Quit)		Apr 28 17:27
DaemonFC	*PPU	Apr 28 17:27
_boo_	what’s dat	Apr 28 17:28
trmanco	http://blogs.techrepubli…	Apr 28 17:28
DaemonFC	ATI is still selling DirectX 10.0/OpenGL 2 hardware with no Physics Processing Unit	Apr 28 17:28
_boo_	it has that unit	Apr 28 17:28
_boo_	PhysX	Apr 28 17:28
DaemonFC	which is why I said, they’re cheap because they sell substandard parts	Apr 28 17:28
DaemonFC	I can go buy vulcanized rubber pulleys to replace aluminum ones on my car	Apr 28 17:29
DaemonFC	they’re half the price because they’re not good parts	Apr 28 17:29
_boo_	what’s alluminium pulleys?	Apr 28 17:29
DaemonFC	shouting “It’s cheap, it’s cheap” doesn’t help me really defend the reason I bought them	Apr 28 17:29
DaemonFC	tensioner and idler pulleys	Apr 28 17:29
DaemonFC	they make aftermarket ones out of vulcanized rubber or heat tempered plastic	Apr 28 17:30
_boo_	idk what even pulleys mean	Apr 28 17:30
DaemonFC	they’re no good, but they cost less	Apr 28 17:30
DaemonFC	my point is that if it’s cheap just because of a price war, go for it, but if it’s cheap because it’s cheap, then you may not want to	Apr 28 17:30
DaemonFC		Apr 28 17:31
_boo_	like dude	Apr 28 17:31
_boo_	i won’t buy amd	Apr 28 17:31
_boo_	but ati makes sense	Apr 28 17:31
_boo_	none of my compys were amd	Apr 28 17:32
_boo_	they were almost always losing to me	Apr 28 17:32
*DaemonFC goes for Intel/Nvidia		Apr 28 17:32
DaemonFC	anyway, brb	Apr 28 17:32
_boo_	nope	Apr 28 17:32
_boo_	nvidia or ati	Apr 28 17:32
_boo_	depends on current state	Apr 28 17:32
_boo_	do you use cuda, DaemonFC?	Apr 28 17:33
_boo_	do you really think that physx matters much for 1 year at least already and 2 more?	Apr 28 17:34
trmanco	very strange firefox review -> http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0…	Apr 28 17:56
_boo_	dude, idk what you’re even talking about about ati vs nvidia	Apr 28 17:57
_boo_	like 9800 gx2 is worse than even ati 3870×2	Apr 28 17:58
_boo_	i like how firefox updates	Apr 28 17:58
_boo_	it’s lightweight	Apr 28 17:58
_boo_	and i don’t have to visit some very untrusted windows.com to update browser	Apr 28 17:59
_boo_	trmanco, didn’t you TRY TO IMAGINE	Apr 28 18:00
_boo_	that ff 3.0.10 is releasy	Apr 28 18:01
_boo_	and 3.5b4 is debuggy	Apr 28 18:01
trmanco	what do you mean?	Apr 28 18:01
_boo_	i mean that depending on algorithms used	Apr 28 18:01
_boo_	and they are not linear most likely	Apr 28 18:01
_boo_	you can experience even less pretty results	Apr 28 18:02
*DaemonFC is on Opera again for the time being		Apr 28 18:02
_boo_	DaemonFC is a drunk	Apr 28 18:03
_boo_	i only use opera to play gladiatus online browser game	Apr 28 18:03
_boo_	with a different ip	Apr 28 18:03
DaemonFC	Opera/9.64 (Windows NT 6.0; U; en) Presto/2.1.1	Apr 28 18:03
DaemonFC	there’s kind of a shortage of decent browsers, (not to be confused with a shortage OF browsers)	Apr 28 18:04
_boo_	decent browsers…	Apr 28 18:06
DaemonFC	you’ve got IE and I don’t want to write an essay on why I hate it, you have Firefox (likewise), you’ve got Safari which has basically no extensions on Windows and requires Quicktime for media which pulls in iTunes and installs bizarre Windows services	Apr 28 18:06
_boo_	dude, i like konqueror, epiphany	Apr 28 18:06
DaemonFC	you have Chrome if you don’t mind complete minimalism and trust Google	Apr 28 18:06
_boo_	ff	Apr 28 18:06
_boo_	what:/	Apr 28 18:07
_boo_	what???	Apr 28 18:07
_boo_	i trust google?	Apr 28 18:07
_boo_	it’s about ya	Apr 28 18:07
_boo_	i only trust google when it comes to job	Apr 28 18:07
_boo_	they won’t steal it XD	Apr 28 18:07
DaemonFC	then of course there’s Opera which is probably the most well-rounded and definitely the most standards-compliant	Apr 28 18:07
DaemonFC	(and fastest in some ways)	Apr 28 18:07
_boo_	not fastest	Apr 28 18:08
_boo_	but it’s good	Apr 28 18:08
DaemonFC	well, Firefox is a resource hog, that’s my problem	Apr 28 18:08
_boo_	resource hog?	Apr 28 18:08
DaemonFC	a web browser should not be taking 500 megs of RAM to simply have a few tabs open	Apr 28 18:08
DaemonFC	and it’s sprung more security leaks than IE, Opera, and Safari put together	Apr 28 18:08
_boo_	few tabs… 500mbs	Apr 28 18:09
_boo_	lol	Apr 28 18:09
_boo_	DaemonFC, i use ff to go through ANY site	Apr 28 18:09
_boo_	and i don’t get infected	Apr 28 18:09
DaemonFC	seriously, I think the Mozilla people…..tell me what I have to smoke to put something together that backwards	Apr 28 18:09
_boo_	and i don’t have to visit windows updates	Apr 28 18:10
DaemonFC	right, you get your updates through Ubuntu’s system	Apr 28 18:10
DaemonFC		Apr 28 18:10
DaemonFC	which is just an applet	Apr 28 18:10
_boo_	lol, i’m in winxp pro sp2 x64 right now	Apr 28 18:10
DaemonFC	because Firefox is part of their OS	Apr 28 18:10
DaemonFC	?	Apr 28 18:10
DaemonFC		Apr 28 18:10
_boo_	and i didn’t pay for it	Apr 28 18:11
_boo_	^ the only reason why i use it	Apr 28 18:11
DaemonFC	most people that have XP X64 did not buy it	Apr 28 18:11
DaemonFC		Apr 28 18:11
_boo_	lol	Apr 28 18:11
_boo_	i will not ever buy m$ product	Apr 28 18:11
_boo_	and i never did	Apr 28 18:11
DaemonFC	I have before but ou have to go back to like Windows Me to fiund anything I bought	Apr 28 18:12
DaemonFC	and that was a $20 promotional upgrade	Apr 28 18:12
_boo_	wtf	Apr 28 18:12
_boo_	i won’t EVER pay money to m$	Apr 28 18:12
_boo_	and never did (again)	Apr 28 18:12
DaemonFC	well, that was 9 years ago	Apr 28 18:12
DaemonFC	and til XP was out, there was no product activator and I had never heard of DRM	Apr 28 18:13
DaemonFC	much less seen it	Apr 28 18:13
DaemonFC		Apr 28 18:13
*tessier_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Apr 28 18:13
_boo_	9 yo	Apr 28 18:13
_boo_	they raped ya	Apr 28 18:13
_boo_	lol	Apr 28 18:13
_boo_	he never heard of drm	Apr 28 18:13
_boo_	wasn’t it always around?	Apr 28 18:13
DaemonFC	no	Apr 28 18:14
_boo_	it’s just with m$ you felt it with your ass pretty hard	Apr 28 18:14
_boo_	’cause m$ rapes	Apr 28 18:14
DaemonFC	Windows didn’t even support DRM til 2000 and you never even saw anything using it for a couple years after that	Apr 28 18:14
DaemonFC	DRM is a fairly recent thing	Apr 28 18:15
_boo_	yeah, they were uncapable of implementing drm	Apr 28 18:15
_boo_	just not enough brains	Apr 28 18:15
_boo_	but they wished it	Apr 28 18:15
DaemonFC	not incapable of it, they just never planned on needing it	Apr 28 18:15
DaemonFC	Windows 98 predated DVD	Apr 28 18:15
_boo_	ohhh yeaaah	Apr 28 18:15
DaemonFC	and digital music file sharing	Apr 28 18:16
_boo_	w98 and dvd are not compatible	Apr 28 18:16
DaemonFC	so nobody ever decided “Hey, we can sell this stuff in an online store and copy protect it”	Apr 28 18:16
DaemonFC	no, you can play DVD on 98	Apr 28 18:16
DaemonFC	or 95	Apr 28 18:16
DaemonFC	VLC still works on Windows 95	Apr 28 18:16
DaemonFC	heh	Apr 28 18:16
_boo_	dude… copy protect… drm… all that kinds of things make me puke	Apr 28 18:17
_boo_	i can’t even argue	Apr 28 18:17
DaemonFC	I said it predates the hardware, not that it was incompatible	Apr 28 18:17
_boo_	predates…	Apr 28 18:17
DaemonFC	when 98 was in development, it wasn’t even clear DVD would sell well	Apr 28 18:17
DaemonFC	and the players were like $600	Apr 28 18:18
DaemonFC	and the movies were about $30	Apr 28 18:18
DaemonFC	and the blank discs were $20 each	Apr 28 18:18
_boo_	lol	Apr 28 18:18
DaemonFC	there really wasn’t a huge piracy ordeal in the making there	Apr 28 18:18
_boo_	$20 blank disks???????	Apr 28 18:18
DaemonFC	mmhm	Apr 28 18:18
DaemonFC	$20 for ONE BLANK DVD	Apr 28 18:19
DaemonFC	yes, you heard me	Apr 28 18:19
_boo_	$30 moooooovieeees?	Apr 28 18:19
_boo_	$600 for PLAAAYYEERSS?	Apr 28 18:19
DaemonFC	mmhm	Apr 28 18:19
DaemonFC	yup	Apr 28 18:19
DaemonFC	recorders cost about $1,000	Apr 28 18:19
_boo_	you’re definitely living in a different world	Apr 28 18:19
DaemonFC	and were the size of a tank	Apr 28 18:19
DaemonFC	now anything can record them, a drive is $20, and a movie is $5	Apr 28 18:20
DaemonFC	blanks are $10 for 30 discs	Apr 28 18:20
_boo_	hm… $5	Apr 28 18:20
_boo_	no	Apr 28 18:20
_boo_	i won’t buy it	Apr 28 18:20
DaemonFC	yeah	Apr 28 18:20
_boo_	everything that i could buy recently	Apr 28 18:20
_boo_	was house m.d.	Apr 28 18:20
DaemonFC	that’s what Blu Ray is for, DRM mainly	Apr 28 18:20
_boo_	and if it included russian versions of not yet released episodes	Apr 28 18:20
DaemonFC	but the players for Blu Ray and HD-DVD, in 2005	Apr 28 18:21
DaemonFC	about $600	Apr 28 18:21
DaemonFC	$30 movies	Apr 28 18:21
DaemonFC	$20 for a blank disc	Apr 28 18:21
_boo_	blu-ray	Apr 28 18:21
_boo_	people won’t use blu-ray	Apr 28 18:21
_boo_	i’m not buying blu-ray	Apr 28 18:21
DaemonFC	20 miles to the store in the snow	Apr 28 18:21