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| DavidGerard | mini microsoft is (obviously) interesting today | May 06 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| oiaohm | It more interesting to see how many staff they can afford to lose. | May 06 00:06 |
| oiaohm | That would be a nasty line to take the ODF failure of MS Office. "Is the Failure of ODF support a sign that MS lacks the staff to support there software any more?" | May 06 00:08 |
| oiaohm | That would be out of the pure rules of FUD. Create Fear Uncerity so putting the company who did it at risk. | May 06 00:10 |
| *seller_liar (i=c95f3026@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-44275bc387e18747) has joined #boycottnovell | May 06 00:11 | |
| seller_liar | what the extra moonlight clause measns? | May 06 00:12 |
| oiaohm | Link to clause please seller_liar | May 06 00:14 |
| seller_liar | wait | May 06 00:15 |
| seller_liar | In addition to the GNU LGPL, this code is available for relicensing for non-LGPL use, contact Novell for details (mono@novell.com). We consider non-LGPL use instances where you use this on an embedded system where the end user is not able to upgrade the Moonlight installation or distribution that is part of your product (Section 6 and 7), you would have to | May 06 00:15 |
| Balrog_ | wait a minute | May 06 00:16 |
| Balrog_ | they're trying to use LGPL 3 anti-tivoization without LGPL 3 patent clause | May 06 00:16 |
| seller_liar | ok | May 06 00:16 |
| Balrog_ | :( | May 06 00:16 |
| oiaohm | Hang on that is breach of GPL. | May 06 00:16 |
| oiaohm | You are only allowed to use Section 6 and 7 in GPL to allow more than the licence would other wise let. You cannot use Section 6 or 7 for limiting. | May 06 00:17 |
| seller_liar | but why not use lgpl v3 instead? | May 06 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | because of patent clauses | May 06 00:17 |
| oiaohm | No LGPL licence is clear on that fact. | May 06 00:17 |
| seller_liar | lgplv2 , not lgplv2.1 or lgplv3 protects microsoft-novell deal | May 06 00:18 |
| oiaohm | If you want to limit you have to create a new licence like AGPL. | May 06 00:18 |
| oiaohm | seller_liar that needs to go to the free software foundation. | May 06 00:19 |
| oiaohm | Novell needs sueing. | May 06 00:20 |
| seller_liar | Ok, thanks I understand | May 06 00:20 |
| seller_liar | novell does not use lgplv3 because of deal | May 06 00:20 |
| oiaohm | lgplv3 does not apply to any deal before its create. | May 06 00:20 |
| oiaohm | So novell could use it. But they would not be able to make a future deal the same. | May 06 00:21 |
| seller_liar | ok | May 06 00:21 |
| seller_liar | But I was thinking | May 06 00:21 |
| Balrog_ | wait a minute | May 06 00:22 |
| oiaohm | seller_liar: will you email that off to the freesoftware foundation or do I. | May 06 00:22 |
| seller_liar | Projects like dotgnu needs more attention | May 06 00:22 |
| Balrog_ | they're claiming that LGPL they're using forbids tivoization | May 06 00:22 |
| Balrog_ | "We only require licensing for uses of Mono and Moonlight on embedded systems, or systems where you are unable to fulfill the obligations of the GNU LGPL." | May 06 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Tivo uses LGPL. | May 06 00:22 |
| seller_liar | There's no need for this .I have understood | May 06 00:22 |
| oiaohm | LGPL does not allow that split Balrog_ | May 06 00:23 |
| oiaohm | seller_liar: its illegal. | May 06 00:23 |
| seller_liar | But please, if you want ,send a email for sflc for more explanation about moondarkness | May 06 00:23 |
| Balrog_ | or RMS himself? | May 06 00:23 |
| oiaohm | Page link that its on seller_liar | May 06 00:23 |
| seller_liar | maybe, But Sflc knows is better | May 06 00:24 |
| Balrog_ | ok | May 06 00:24 |
| oiaohm | Part of my job I do embed stuff. | May 06 00:24 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: download moonlight and see the license | May 06 00:24 |
| oiaohm | Ok now that is also a break of some countries laws where you must be able to see the licence before downloading. | May 06 00:24 |
| oiaohm | Or the licence is rendered void. | May 06 00:25 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-124-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 06 00:25 | |
| oiaohm | This is just getting worse. | May 06 00:25 |
| seller_liar | yes ,Because I have not found the license before download | May 06 00:25 |
| _Hicham_ | what is getting worse? | May 06 00:25 |
| oiaohm | Mono licencing it appears to completely screwed up. | May 06 00:25 |
| Balrog_ | http://anonsvn.mono-project.com/vi... | May 06 00:26 |
| _Hicham_ | is this just in? | May 06 00:26 |
| Balrog_ | Also they're combining LGPL and MS-PL | May 06 00:26 |
| Balrog_ | not sure if that's ok ... | May 06 00:26 |
| _Hicham_ | MS-PL with GPL? what a shame | May 06 00:26 |
| Balrog_ | see that license | May 06 00:27 |
| Balrog_ | we're talking about the 'anti-tivoization provision in Moonlight's license | May 06 00:29 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm and seller_liar: still arond? | May 06 00:29 |
| Balrog_ | around * | May 06 00:29 |
| seller_liar | yes | May 06 00:29 |
| Balrog_ | ok | May 06 00:30 |
| Balrog_ | any ideas on what to do? | May 06 00:30 |
| Balrog_ | oh another thing | May 06 00:30 |
| seller_liar | send a email to sflc about moonlight | May 06 00:31 |
| seller_liar | http://www.microsoft.com/interop/m... | May 06 00:31 |
| Balrog_ | I was told that the GNU licenses page used to say that Ms-PL was gpl compatible, but they changed it | May 06 00:31 |
| Balrog_ | anyone has past pages or that kind of info? wayback machine doesn't have it | May 06 00:31 |
| Balrog_ | Also MS discriminates against GPL3 in their covenant | May 06 00:32 |
| Balrog_ | << “Moonlight Implementation” means only those specific portions of Moonlight 1.0 or Moonlight 1.1 that run only as a plug-in to a browser on a Personal Computer and are not licensed under GPLv3 or a Similar License. >> | May 06 00:32 |
| oiaohm | Ms-PL is only compatible under particular conditions. | May 06 00:35 |
| oiaohm | That case it would be. | May 06 00:35 |
| seller_liar | see groklaw | May 06 00:35 |
| Balrog_ | which are?? | May 06 00:35 |
| Balrog_ | URL? | May 06 00:35 |
| seller_liar | groklaw have a discussion of sflc about microsoft-novell covenant | May 06 00:35 |
| oiaohm | You cannot link MS-PL and GPL into the same program source. | May 06 00:35 |
| oiaohm | That case they are independant parts so independant works. | May 06 00:35 |
| seller_liar | http://www.groklaw.net/articlebas... | May 06 00:36 |
| oiaohm | So compadible. | May 06 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Adding conditions illegally to LGPL cannot be tollerated. | May 06 00:36 |
| oiaohm | LGPL only can demard that you release your source code. | May 06 00:36 |
| Balrog_ | or claiming that LGPL2 forbids tivoization | May 06 00:36 |
| oiaohm | That is adding a illegal condition Balrog_ | May 06 00:37 |
| Balrog_ | well it's worded as a claim, not a condition | May 06 00:37 |
| oiaohm | Law does not split on that. | May 06 00:37 |
| Balrog_ | ok. | May 06 00:37 |
| oiaohm | To the person reading is it a condition you would have every right to think you would have to follow. If yes its a condition. | May 06 00:38 |
| oiaohm | claim is not a magical word under law. | May 06 00:38 |
| oiaohm | I really suspect the MS-PL is the bit that truly forbids embeding. | May 06 00:39 |
| Balrog_ | this guy <http://modeemi.fi/~tuomov/ion/new...> really messed with LGPL. That's why no one uses his software; it's basically unredistributable | May 06 00:40 |
| *LastGuyonEarth (n=sean@173-29-123-36.client.mchsi.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 06 00:40 | |
| LastGuyonEarth | Good afternoon. | May 06 00:40 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: but you can build Mono / Moonlight without Ms-PL stuff ....? | May 06 00:40 |
| oiaohm | They also counld have put it on the MIT licence section. | May 06 00:41 |
| oiaohm | Nothing illegal adding a condition there. | May 06 00:41 |
| Balrog_ | yes. | May 06 00:41 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I personally dislike how the MIT license gets used anymore, though. | May 06 00:41 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Case in point, the Cedega developers caused a lot of problems by forking off the Wine code a few years back. | May 06 00:42 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Although come to think of it, I don't really use much of either anymore. | May 06 00:42 |
| LastGuyonEarth | But I digress. | May 06 00:42 |
| LastGuyonEarth | What I'd really like to see is a Free alternative to Flash and Silverlight that uses Javascript and OGG. | May 06 00:43 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Maybe someday. | May 06 00:43 |
| Balrog_ | why not <video> tags? | May 06 00:43 |
| oiaohm | Balrog_ I agree on that distribution one. | May 06 00:43 |
| oiaohm | I have been against that for a long time. | May 06 00:43 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: which exact one ... IonWM? | May 06 00:43 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Balrog_: I personally like the <video> tags in the new firefox, but I'd just like to see a framework as a whole be developed as an alternative. | May 06 00:44 |
| oiaohm | There are thousands of packages effected by it. | May 06 00:44 |
| LastGuyonEarth | It'd be especially useful for animators that want to switch from Flash. | May 06 00:44 |
| Balrog_ | yes, and I think such tampering with LGPL is probably illegal | May 06 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Including wine that I do support for Balrog_ | May 06 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Some places of the GPL world we need court cases to sort it out. | May 06 00:44 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I have to admit, though, a lot of GNU/Linux apps have become quite refined, I haven't really used Wine-apps for a while now. | May 06 00:45 |
| LastGuyonEarth | That said, one person can not represent a demographic. | May 06 00:45 |
| oiaohm | That the way I recommend it. | May 06 00:45 |
| oiaohm | If native tools can do it use them. | May 06 00:45 |
| oiaohm | Wine is more of a stop gap. | May 06 00:45 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Especially if they're GPL-compatible. | May 06 00:45 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Yeah. | May 06 00:45 |
| oiaohm | Wine is not the most cpu friendly thing either. | May 06 00:45 |
| LastGuyonEarth | What I think Free Software really needs are simpler ways to develop games. | May 06 00:45 |
| oiaohm | that will be blender soon LastGuyonEarth | May 06 00:46 |
| LastGuyonEarth | The gaming community itself has so much untapped potential for Free Software/Free Culture | May 06 00:46 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Ah, nice. | May 06 00:46 |
| oiaohm | Blender is basically getting flow chart coding. | May 06 00:46 |
| LastGuyonEarth | So long as it runs well, I can't complain. | May 06 00:46 |
| oiaohm | And its game engine updated to run extreamly well. | May 06 00:47 |
| Balrog_ | we're stuck with this at school: http://www.motionanalysis.com/html... | May 06 00:47 |
| Balrog_ | connects to IR cameras for 3d motion tracking | May 06 00:47 |
| Balrog_ | it's expensive proprietary software, and I don't know of any foss alternative | May 06 00:47 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Ah yep. | May 06 00:47 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Hmm. | May 06 00:47 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Well, I think an important thing to keep in mind is that the basic apps ought to be covered with Free Software alternatives first. | May 06 00:48 |
| oiaohm | http://blenderartists.org/forum... << look at stress test of new engine LastGuyonEarth | May 06 00:48 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Don't get me wrong, they're definitely getting there. | May 06 00:48 |
| LastGuyonEarth | But some apps/patents/licensing schemes are still largely problematic. | May 06 00:49 |
| Balrog_ | they also rely on Virtools | May 06 00:49 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Also, packaging is still difficult for a third-party app vendor. | May 06 00:49 |
| Balrog_ | which costs a few thousand | May 06 00:49 |
| LastGuyonEarth | =( | May 06 00:49 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Maybe someday. One can only hope. | May 06 00:49 |
| LastGuyonEarth | oiaohm hopefully the new game editor in Blender will be highly extendible. | May 06 00:50 |
| DavidGerard | Balrog_: the other reason no-one uses tuomov's software is because he's INSANE. he recently got kicked off the x.org lists for batshitness | May 06 00:50 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | May 06 00:50 | |
| DavidGerard | thoguh before he did I splorfed at ajax responding to one of his rants "Also, time is actually cubical in nature." | May 06 00:50 |
| LastGuyonEarth | lol | May 06 00:51 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Time is an abstract concept, in my opinion. | May 06 00:51 |
| DavidGerard | i'm trying to think of the ultimate free unix distro | May 06 00:51 |
| LastGuyonEarth | OpenBSD | May 06 00:51 |
| DavidGerard | we could get joerg schilling, tuomo v, hans reiser ... | May 06 00:51 |
| LastGuyonEarth | No binary blobs in it whatsoever. | May 06 00:51 |
| LastGuyonEarth | That said, I hear it's difficult to install. | May 06 00:51 |
| DavidGerard | they'd never be able to agree on the license, but that's ok | May 06 00:52 |
| oiaohm | LastGuyonEarth: you have python engine on top of the flow chart coding so yep highly extendible. | May 06 00:52 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I personally am hoping to switch to either BLAG or gNewSense sometime soon | May 06 00:52 |
| Balrog_ | Jorg Schilling put together an unredistriutable app known as cdrecord | May 06 00:52 |
| LastGuyonEarth | oiaohm: awesome! | May 06 00:52 |
| DavidGerard | LastGuyonEarth: nah, it's easy. it's command-line and does expect you to read the manuals. | May 06 00:52 |
| DavidGerard | that said, the manuals are EXCELLENT. really really good. | May 06 00:52 |
| Balrog_ | DavidGerard: easier than Gentoo? ;) | May 06 00:52 |
| LastGuyonEarth | DavidGerard: Good to know! | May 06 00:52 |
| DavidGerard | when i was learning solaris admin i'd read the openbsd man page to understand the command and the solaris man page for the switches on solaris | May 06 00:52 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Ah, Solaris. | May 06 00:53 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I quite enjoyed OpenSolaris for what it was. | May 06 00:53 |
| Balrog_ | (i,e, cdrtools) | May 06 00:53 |
| DavidGerard | key things about openbsd: 1. it does things properly. 2. it's very fussy. | May 06 00:53 |
| DavidGerard | doesn't work in some virtual machines because it's like a stress test for emulators. | May 06 00:53 |
| seller_liar | very hard to use | May 06 00:53 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Interesting. | May 06 00:53 |
| DavidGerard | some software just won't start on it. | May 06 00:53 |
| seller_liar | unfriendly people | May 06 00:53 |
| seller_liar | arrogant people | May 06 00:53 |
| DavidGerard | they're ... uncompromising. | May 06 00:53 |
| oiaohm | http://www.hitl.washington.edu/... Ok with 3d human tracking how stupid do you want to look LastGuyonEarth | May 06 00:53 |
| seller_liar | is not user friendly | May 06 00:54 |
| DavidGerard | solaris is industrial machinery. | May 06 00:54 |
| DavidGerard | plus point: it's predictable. | May 06 00:54 |
| Balrog_ | ... seller_liar: who do you mean? Solaris Gentoo or OpenBSD? | May 06 00:54 |
| seller_liar | does not have gui installer , a little few distrosa | May 06 00:54 |
| LastGuyonEarth | oiaohm: I beg your pardon? | May 06 00:54 |
| seller_liar | openbsd | May 06 00:54 |
| Balrog_ | ok | May 06 00:54 |
| seller_liar | Why to worry about security ? | May 06 00:54 |
| DavidGerard | that said, if you want a seriously secure external facing machine, openbsd is it. | May 06 00:54 |
| LastGuyonEarth | LOL! | May 06 00:54 |
| oiaohm | Opps wrong person | May 06 00:55 |
| seller_liar | openbsd people focuses in stupid things like security | May 06 00:55 |
| DavidGerard | and it's a bsd unix, it's really not that hard to use, and bsd is nice to administer | May 06 00:55 |
| oiaohm | It was Balrog_ who asked about 3d user tracking. | May 06 00:55 |
| LastGuyonEarth | oiaohm: It's fine! No worries! | May 06 00:55 |
| Balrog_ | yes, it was | May 06 00:55 |
| Balrog_ | looks interesting | May 06 00:55 |
| DavidGerard | because it's an evil internet | May 06 00:55 |
| LastGuyonEarth | DavidGerard: It's not all evil. | May 06 00:55 |
| LastGuyonEarth | There's identi.ca at least. | May 06 00:55 |
| Balrog_ | though they say "ARToolKit is made available freely for non-commercial use under the GNU General Public License. " which is contradictory | May 06 00:55 |
| oiaohm | It can do it single cammera as well Balrog_ | May 06 00:55 |
| seller_liar | DavidGerard: Evil is cause by humans | May 06 00:55 |
| DavidGerard | theo de raadt is also fiercely dedicated to software freedom, even if he disagrees with rms almost by reflex | May 06 00:55 |
| Balrog_ | should I fire off an email? | May 06 00:56 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | May 06 00:56 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Ah, but evil itself is defined by society, whom I disregard. | May 06 00:56 |
| seller_liar | DavidGerard: Of course , human systems too | May 06 00:56 |
| oiaohm | If you want to use it closed soruce you can pay a licence Balrog_ | May 06 00:56 |
| DavidGerard | LastGuyonEarth: that works as long as society disregards you | May 06 00:56 |
| seller_liar | DavidGerard: Evil is cause by human and human systems | May 06 00:56 |
| Balrog_ | yes, but 'non-commercial' ... | May 06 00:56 |
| LastGuyonEarth | DavidGerard: Works for me then. | May 06 00:56 |
| oiaohm | Its another QT style licence Balrog_ | May 06 00:56 |
| Balrog_ | ok | May 06 00:56 |
| seller_liar | If we stop to produce more and more system , evil disappear | May 06 00:56 |
| oiaohm | They don't class open source as commerial. | May 06 00:56 |
| seller_liar | of course, not entirely | May 06 00:57 |
| DavidGerard | 20 people want to save Vista! | May 06 00:57 |
| seller_liar | because the universe is a system | May 06 00:57 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: I think "evil" is present regardless of a system or not. | May 06 00:57 |
| DavidGerard | that's actually quite a worryingly large number | May 06 00:57 |
| DavidGerard | http://www.facebook.com/group... | May 06 00:57 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: People will always disagree and have struggles. | May 06 00:57 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: no | May 06 00:57 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: If we stop to produce systems , the evil disappear | May 06 00:57 |
| oiaohm | Looking completely stupid with large processing power you can basically do human 3d tracking with 1 cam. | May 06 00:57 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: But it's not impossible to destroy all systems | May 06 00:58 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Again, I don't see it that way. People will still kill another regardless of a system or not. | May 06 00:58 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: But it's not possible to destroy all systems | May 06 00:58 |
| oiaohm | So far no one has designed a tracking suit that looks good. | May 06 00:58 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth:For example , the human body is a system | May 06 00:58 |
| LastGuyonEarth | oiaohm: Ah well, as long as they work. | May 06 00:58 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: I define a body as an organism rather than just a system. | May 06 00:59 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth:The language is a system | May 06 00:59 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Political systems I usually disagree with. | May 06 00:59 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Language is a structure in my opinion./ | May 06 00:59 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: Of course, but is a system | May 06 00:59 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: You don't go to prison for defying language, body functions, or physics necessarily. | May 06 00:59 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: But then, definitions and language have always been tricky. | May 06 01:00 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: Evil is generated because of lack of control of systems | May 06 01:00 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: Human can not control all systems | May 06 01:00 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: I believe Evil is generated because the system is flawed in the first place. | May 06 01:00 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Or evil is simply labeled as such because it is misunderstood. | May 06 01:01 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: Yes law is a system . | May 06 01:01 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: But ,I consider all things a system | May 06 01:01 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Sometimes a very bad system. | May 06 01:01 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Fair enough. | May 06 01:01 |
| seller_liar | atoms ,cells, language, culture | May 06 01:01 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: What about abstract concepts, such as quantum physics? | May 06 01:01 |
| seller_liar | The big problem is in this era , the human creates a lot of systems | May 06 01:02 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Technically, they are a system, but they can only be thought of and calculated. | May 06 01:02 |
| seller_liar | knowledge is a system | May 06 01:02 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: I can't argue with that one. But knowledge is the greatest form of a system I've ever come across. | May 06 01:02 |
| seller_liar | Yes, but the big problem is not knowledge , | May 06 01:02 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: For knowledge redefines everything around you. | May 06 01:03 |
| seller_liar | the real problem is the excess of knowledge and systems | May 06 01:03 |
| seller_liar | All thing created in this world generates reactions | May 06 01:03 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: I can understand systems, but I fail to see how an excess of knowledge hurt anyone. | May 06 01:03 |
| seller_liar | More knowledge = more power | May 06 01:03 |
| DavidGerard | LastGuyonEarth: too much knowledge and you end up a wikipedia administrator | May 06 01:04 |
| LastGuyonEarth | DavidGerard: LOL! | May 06 01:04 |
| DavidGerard | and trust me, your productive life is OVER | May 06 01:04 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I feel bad about what Wikipedia is becoming... | May 06 01:04 |
| seller_liar | If you have a lot of knowledge you have more power | May 06 01:04 |
| LastGuyonEarth | So censored anymore. | May 06 01:04 |
| seller_liar | "Power corrupts" | May 06 01:04 |
| seller_liar | because you are a human and cannot control all knowldge you have | May 06 01:04 |
| seller_liar | And this generates evil | May 06 01:05 |
| LastGuyonEarth | But I myself do not believe in Evil. | May 06 01:05 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I only believe in misunderstanding. | May 06 01:05 |
| seller_liar | every power of this world generates reactions | May 06 01:05 |
| seller_liar | the difference is | May 06 01:05 |
| seller_liar | some reaction the human can control , others do not | May 06 01:06 |
| seller_liar | the others are called "evil" | May 06 01:06 |
| seller_liar | for example | May 06 01:06 |
| seller_liar | Human creates cars | May 06 01:06 |
| seller_liar | It's very powerful but | May 06 01:06 |
| seller_liar | the evil is pollution ,greed , money , and car asccidents | May 06 01:07 |
| LastGuyonEarth | No. | May 06 01:07 |
| seller_liar | every power generates reaction | May 06 01:07 |
| LastGuyonEarth | The only evil I believe in is Hate. | May 06 01:07 |
| LastGuyonEarth | For Hate motivates all the terrible reactions of the world. | May 06 01:07 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Sounds a bit hippie-ish | May 06 01:07 |
| LastGuyonEarth | But that's how I see things. | May 06 01:07 |
| seller_liar | Hate is lack of control too | May 06 01:07 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Is it? | May 06 01:07 |
| seller_liar | an example | May 06 01:07 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Or is Hate taking control in a negative form? | May 06 01:07 |
| seller_liar | A human born | May 06 01:07 |
| seller_liar | The human borns with hate or hate is created in human mind | May 06 01:08 |
| seller_liar | Human does not born with hate | May 06 01:08 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Are they? | May 06 01:08 |
| seller_liar | Hate is generated by other humans | May 06 01:08 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Again, is it? | May 06 01:08 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Are aggression and hate learned, or parially inherent? | May 06 01:09 |
| seller_liar | Family creates hate , hate creates hate, society creates hate | May 06 01:09 |
| seller_liar | Agression =! hate | May 06 01:09 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Misunderstanding creates hate. | May 06 01:09 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Aggression begets hate, and vice versa. | May 06 01:09 |
| seller_liar | Agression is a power to defend human against obstacles | May 06 01:09 |
| seller_liar | But human does not control agression too much , | May 06 01:09 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I lump it with violence. | May 06 01:09 |
| seller_liar | the reaction is violence | May 06 01:09 |
| seller_liar | you see | May 06 01:09 |
| seller_liar | Power:Agression | May 06 01:10 |
| *ushimitsudoki1 (n=ushimits@p2209-ipad08yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell | May 06 01:10 | |
| seller_liar | Reaction not controleed by human: Violence | May 06 01:10 |
| seller_liar | Reaction controlled by human: Self defence | May 06 01:10 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: But what about racism, homophobes, and the like? | May 06 01:10 |
| LastGuyonEarth | That's partially created out of fear, which is a lack of power. | May 06 01:10 |
| LastGuyonEarth | And yet, it creates Hate, too. | May 06 01:10 |
| seller_liar | seller_liar: Agreesion + poor society system | May 06 01:10 |
| seller_liar | reaction=Racism | May 06 01:10 |
| seller_liar | Everything is power and system | May 06 01:11 |
| seller_liar | human is a system | May 06 01:11 |
| seller_liar | the universe is a system | May 06 01:11 |
| oiaohm | I believe in Evil and good and a large shade of grey in middle. | May 06 01:11 |
| seller_liar | Pówer generates reactions | May 06 01:11 |
| LastGuyonEarth | But so does a lack of power. | May 06 01:11 |
| seller_liar | Reaction are controlled by humans or not | May 06 01:12 |
| seller_liar | Reactions not controlled by humans:evil | May 06 01:12 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Depends on the situation. | May 06 01:12 |
| *DavidGerard has quit ("Leaving") | May 06 01:12 | |
| oiaohm | Evil in my define is simple an action performed with the pure idea of doing harm without any valid motive. | May 06 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Solider does not step out on the battle field to kill they step out to protect. | May 06 01:13 |
| oiaohm | So not Evil. | May 06 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Mass murder killing for the sport of it that is Evil. | May 06 01:14 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I disagree. | May 06 01:14 |
| seller_liar | Why Humans harm "without" motive | May 06 01:14 |
| LastGuyonEarth | If everyone is going to die anyway, is taking a life necessarily evil? | May 06 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Die is natural. You dna will stop working at some point and you will die. | May 06 01:14 |
| seller_liar | Bad humans are a consequence of poor systems | May 06 01:15 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Define "Bad Human" | May 06 01:15 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: This is not evil , natural death is a normal condition of human | May 06 01:15 |
| seller_liar | "People wants to harm people" | May 06 01:15 |
| oiaohm | It goes aganist nature to harm your own kind without motive. | May 06 01:16 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I guess I'm the odd one out, I have no qualms about someone going on a killing spree. | May 06 01:16 |
| seller_liar | All things in this world have a reason | May 06 01:16 |
| LastGuyonEarth | What I detest rather is forcing people to live in pain. | May 06 01:16 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: But this is not true | May 06 01:16 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: All things of world have a reason | May 06 01:16 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Nothing HAS to have a reason per se. | May 06 01:17 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-104-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 06 01:17 | |
| LastGuyonEarth | Things can just happen randomly for no particular reason. | May 06 01:17 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I personally am a fan of that. | May 06 01:17 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: Every things have a reason | May 06 01:17 |
| oiaohm | There is no reason for people to live in pain. | May 06 01:17 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Right. | May 06 01:17 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm:Wrong | May 06 01:18 |
| oiaohm | That is what medical induced comas are for. | May 06 01:18 |
| Balrog_ | seller_liar: things happen based on a probalistic nature | May 06 01:18 |
| Balrog_ | at least in part | May 06 01:18 |
| seller_liar | balrog: all probalistic nature is predictable | May 06 01:18 |
| Balrog_ | seller_liar: you can predict that there's a 15% chance that something will happen | May 06 01:18 |
| Balrog_ | but that's not predictability | May 06 01:18 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Balrog_: LOL! | May 06 01:18 |
| Balrog_ | there's a 85% chance it won't happen | May 06 01:19 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: I'm not a god ,but this is predictable | May 06 01:19 |
| Balrog_ | nature is like this ... once you get into quantum mechanics, it's commonplace | May 06 01:19 |
| *Balrog_ is a physics student ;) | May 06 01:19 | |
| oiaohm | Humans themselves are not random. | May 06 01:19 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I love quantum mechanics. | May 06 01:19 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: All things have a destiny | May 06 01:19 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no probalistic thing | May 06 01:19 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: As I heard in a movie: "There is a fate, it's what you create." | May 06 01:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Einstein died trying to prove it | May 06 01:20 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Einstein cribbed a lot of theoretical work. | May 06 01:20 |
| seller_liar | seller_liar: All things have destiny | May 06 01:20 |
| Balrog_ | _Hicham_: heard of quantum entanglement? | May 06 01:20 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I don't personally respect Einstein entirely. | May 06 01:20 |
| seller_liar | but only god knows | May 06 01:20 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I'm an Atheist. ;) | May 06 01:20 |
| Balrog_ | and the EPR paradox? | May 06 01:20 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Well no, actually I'm Pastafarian. | May 06 01:20 |
| seller_liar | But I will talk about evi | May 06 01:20 |
| _Hicham_ | Einstein wasn't convinced by the probalistic aspect of quantum physics | May 06 01:20 |
| seller_liar | Evil is generated by systems | May 06 01:21 |
| oiaohm | I love the old test I did where I had 2 object on a table and a physicollagly lecturer. An said throw 1 of them away. Only one problem I had a list of actions the person would attempt to do. | May 06 01:21 |
| seller_liar | We cannot live without systems | May 06 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | but the thing is that no one could prove it | May 06 01:21 |
| oiaohm | Humans are not random. | May 06 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | probability is still a mysterious notion | May 06 01:21 |
| oiaohm | We only think we are. | May 06 01:21 |
| LastGuyonEarth | oiaohm: Sure they are! WAFFLES POTATOES! | May 06 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | nothing is random | May 06 01:21 |
| seller_liar | Because we are a system ,atoms are system ,materia is a system | May 06 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | everything is well computed | May 06 01:22 |
| seller_liar | all technology is a system | May 06 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | nature can't be random | May 06 01:22 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Why not? | May 06 01:22 |
| LastGuyonEarth | There's nothing wrong with being random. | May 06 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | there was ( and still ) a big debate about that in the US | May 06 01:22 |
| oiaohm | LastGuyonEarth: even that statement sure they are is not random. | May 06 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | intelligent design vs darwinism | May 06 01:22 |
| LastGuyonEarth | oiaohm: I know, it was a joke. | May 06 01:22 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Darwinism FTW. | May 06 01:22 |
| oiaohm | If I knew enough your back ground history the answer as predictable LastGuyonEarth | May 06 01:22 |
| Balrog_ | random and probalistic are two different things | May 06 01:22 |
| Balrog_ | the latter is predictable | May 06 01:23 |
| seller_liar | Darwinism is used by capitalists .I don tl ike it | May 06 01:23 |
| oiaohm | Humans are part DNA and Part there experisneces and part there brain malfuctions. | May 06 01:23 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Sorry, what? | May 06 01:23 |
| seller_liar | Darwinism is used by capitalists .I don t like it | May 06 01:23 |
| LastGuyonEarth | ID is used by capitalists, as they have the largest percentile of theists. | May 06 01:23 |
| oiaohm | Not really random. | May 06 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | if you have enough data, you can predict anything | May 06 01:23 |
| seller_liar | Evolution is a quest of luck and bad luck | May 06 01:24 |
| LastGuyonEarth | It's the best we've got. | May 06 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Evil actions from people are normally made. | May 06 01:24 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Evil is only defined by other people. | May 06 01:24 |
| seller_liar | oiaohm: Because human body is a system , human cannot control human entirely | May 06 01:24 |
| LastGuyonEarth | If I shot a man who tried to kill one of my children, am I evil? | May 06 01:24 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I technically just killed somebody, but to save another. | May 06 01:24 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: Yes | May 06 01:25 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: Ah, I see. You're a Moral Absolutist | May 06 01:25 |
| seller_liar | Because you not stoped that human before | May 06 01:25 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Much like Rorschach from Watchmen. | May 06 01:25 |
| *ushimitsudoki has quit (Success) | May 06 01:25 | |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: No | May 06 01:25 |
| _Hicham_ | LastGuyonEarch : you should avoid killing | May 06 01:25 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: For example | May 06 01:25 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Says who? | May 06 01:25 |
| oiaohm | What if you were shooting at the wrong guy LastGuyonEarth | May 06 01:25 |
| oiaohm | Like his twin. | May 06 01:26 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I personally will kill if I want to, that's part of human nature. It's been that way for thousands of years. | May 06 01:26 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: Why this human have killed your children | May 06 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Remember I said humans are part dna and part how they are raised. | May 06 01:26 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Yes. | May 06 01:26 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: Why this human have killed your children? | May 06 01:26 |
| _Hicham_ | you can't kill if u want to | May 06 01:26 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Why does it matter, the point is that they're theoretically dead. | May 06 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Base human nature from DNA normally does not include kill. | May 06 01:27 |
| seller_liar | Because he is crazy, right? | May 06 01:27 |
| LastGuyonEarth | _Hicham_: Sure I can. | May 06 01:27 |
| seller_liar | But | May 06 01:27 |
| seller_liar | Why this man is crazy? | May 06 01:27 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Because you labeled him as "Evil"? | May 06 01:27 |
| _Hicham_ | LastGuyonEarth : you don't control yourself entirely | May 06 01:27 |
| seller_liar | Why you were not able to prevent it was crazy | May 06 01:28 |
| _Hicham_ | to kill, certain conditions must be fulfilled | May 06 01:28 |
| LastGuyonEarth | _Hicham_: As defined by you. Perhaps I have more control. | May 06 01:28 |
| oiaohm | There are rare people who are basically born with the nature to kill. Most of them end up as mass murders. | May 06 01:28 |
| seller_liar | Before building a family, you must live in a good system | May 06 01:28 |
| seller_liar | You did not ensure that the world has not insane | May 06 01:28 |
| seller_liar | You did not ensure that the world has not crazy people | May 06 01:29 |
| seller_liar | Hence | May 06 01:29 |
| oiaohm | To kill you need lack of empthy with what you are killing. | May 06 01:29 |
| _Hicham_ | and to be healthy | May 06 01:29 |
| seller_liar | You should spend time improving the world before building a family | May 06 01:29 |
| seller_liar | Helping the world is ... | May 06 01:29 |
| seller_liar | use free software | May 06 01:30 |
| oiaohm | Most people cannot kill cattle and the like let alone humans. | May 06 01:30 |
| _Hicham_ | LastGuyonEarth : can u kill if u lose ur eyes? | May 06 01:30 |
| seller_liar | recycle lix | May 06 01:30 |
| LastGuyonEarth | _Hicham_: Sure! | May 06 01:30 |
| seller_liar | recycle waste | May 06 01:30 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: It? | May 06 01:30 |
| seller_liar | Did you understand? | May 06 01:30 |
| oiaohm | Normal Humans must justify there actions so they can Kill. | May 06 01:30 |
| LastGuyonEarth | They don't have to. | May 06 01:31 |
| oiaohm | Its a must. | May 06 01:31 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Normal is a definition of an accepted norm by society. | May 06 01:31 |
| oiaohm | If your brain is working right. | May 06 01:31 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Which is largely Capitalist and overly consumerist. | May 06 01:31 |
| oiaohm | Its a requirement. | May 06 01:31 |
| LastGuyonEarth | No, it's a precondition. | May 06 01:31 |
| _Hicham_ | LastGuyonEarth : where do u live?* | May 06 01:31 |
| seller_liar | LastGuyonEarth: Men dee crazy because there are lack of control in the system | May 06 01:31 |
| oiaohm | Over time you can desentise and shorting the process. | May 06 01:31 |
| LastGuyonEarth | _Hicham_: United States. I hate it here. | May 06 01:31 |
| oiaohm | Basically its a natural built in lock. | May 06 01:32 |
| seller_liar | If you change the system, will not have more men crazy | May 06 01:32 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Define crazy. | May 06 01:32 |
| oiaohm | We just have the means of unlocking it. | May 06 01:32 |
| oiaohm | Basically more you kill the simpler it becomes. | May 06 01:32 |
| seller_liar | Brain abnormality | May 06 01:32 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Define abnormality now. | May 06 01:32 |
| seller_liar | You can prevent this happening | May 06 01:33 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Something that doesn't fit in with the norm. | May 06 01:33 |
| seller_liar | Investing more time on ethics | May 06 01:33 |
| LastGuyonEarth | While I'm personally all for ethics. | May 06 01:33 |
| seller_liar | If the world is more health and education | May 06 01:33 |
| oiaohm | Sorry people who never had empthy there is a section of brain that is never active LastGuyonEarth | May 06 01:33 |
| seller_liar | men not born or grow mad | May 06 01:33 |
| seller_liar | Finally | May 06 01:33 |
| seller_liar | sorry | May 06 01:33 |
| oiaohm | So yes its a abnormality. | May 06 01:33 |
| seller_liar | After all | May 06 01:34 |
| oiaohm | You can either be born a killer. | May 06 01:34 |
| seller_liar | all evil is generated because systems | May 06 01:34 |
| oiaohm | Or develop into one. | May 06 01:34 |
| seller_liar | You can prevent born killers | May 06 01:34 |
| seller_liar | You can prevent murderers grow | May 06 01:34 |
| LastGuyonEarth | How? | May 06 01:34 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Abort them? | May 06 01:34 |
| LastGuyonEarth | That's no better than killing someone. | May 06 01:35 |
| seller_liar | No | May 06 01:35 |
| seller_liar | Investing in health | May 06 01:35 |
| _Hicham_ | by educating peopole | May 06 01:35 |
| seller_liar | Yes | May 06 01:35 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Regardless of that, there will always be killers. | May 06 01:35 |
| oiaohm | If you know what they are you can also be aware of there state. | May 06 01:35 |
| LastGuyonEarth | That's my stance of beliefs. | May 06 01:35 |
| oiaohm | So no giving them weapons. | May 06 01:35 |
| LastGuyonEarth | They'd still kill. | May 06 01:35 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Fashion their own weapons. | May 06 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly. | May 06 01:36 |
| LastGuyonEarth | To rob someone of a right to have a weapon simply is a restriction upon the human condition. | May 06 01:36 |
| oiaohm | They are not born with the skill todo that. | May 06 01:36 |
| seller_liar | So, before you build a family invests in ethics | May 06 01:36 |
| seller_liar | Ethics is a must! | May 06 01:36 |
| oiaohm | To be correct there are some paper pushing jobs born killers are good at. | May 06 01:36 |
| seller_liar | A gun is a power | May 06 01:36 |
| LastGuyonEarth | A great power. | May 06 01:36 |
| seller_liar | All power has reactions | May 06 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Like sorting out what staff should be fired. | May 06 01:36 |
| LastGuyonEarth | seller_liar: You're a repetitive one, aren't you? | May 06 01:37 |
| seller_liar | The gun creates a reaction | May 06 01:37 |
| seller_liar | No | May 06 01:37 |
| seller_liar | The man has no control over anger | May 06 01:37 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Sure he does. | May 06 01:37 |
| oiaohm | Killer nature is only a problem if they get given the skills to use it to do harm. | May 06 01:37 |
| seller_liar | And USA has the power | May 06 01:37 |
| LastGuyonEarth | He can choose to be angry or blow it off. | May 06 01:37 |
| LastGuyonEarth | And not care about it. | May 06 01:37 |
| oiaohm | If they are given the right skills they are useful. | May 06 01:37 |
| seller_liar | Few men have control over anger | May 06 01:38 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Prove it. | May 06 01:38 |
| oiaohm | That depends on culture seller_liar | May 06 01:38 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Give me hard, empirical evidence that humans cannot control anger. | May 06 01:38 |
| seller_liar | The company does not guarantee that all men have control over their bodies | May 06 01:38 |
| seller_liar | Sorry | May 06 01:38 |
| oiaohm | buddist cultures have the lowest ammount of anger probems. | May 06 01:38 |
| seller_liar | The society does not guarantee that all men have control over their bnodies | May 06 01:38 |
| oiaohm | Lot of Cultures don't demard it. | May 06 01:39 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Many Western religions seem to. | May 06 01:39 |
| seller_liar | Having a gun is a power | May 06 01:39 |
| LastGuyonEarth | "Don't be angry, but KILL INFIDELS!" | May 06 01:39 |
| *seller_liar has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 06 01:39 | |
| oiaohm | Nice myth there about gun and power. | May 06 01:39 |
| LastGuyonEarth | lol | May 06 01:40 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Well, glad that's over. | May 06 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Having a gun does not give a person power. Only the power to threaten. | May 06 01:40 |
| _Hicham_ | having a gun is cowardice | May 06 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Problem is how will the threated person respond. | May 06 01:40 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I prefer fist-fighting myself. | May 06 01:40 |
| _Hicham_ | fist fighting and swords are great | May 06 01:41 |
| oiaohm | Fighting with fist also is a failure why use fist. There are other ways to win. | May 06 01:41 |
| oiaohm | That are less harmful. | May 06 01:41 |
| LastGuyonEarth | On the contrary, physical violence is great. | May 06 01:41 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Without weapons. | May 06 01:41 |
| LastGuyonEarth | It's a clean fight, and I can't help but respect that. | May 06 01:42 |
| _Hicham_ | do u practive any sport? | May 06 01:42 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Nope. | May 06 01:42 |
| oiaohm | If you know what is called death touch you can basically stop someones hart then use another presure point to restart it taking away there physical strenth for about 8 hours. | May 06 01:42 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Unless you consider bar-fighting a sport. | May 06 01:42 |
| oiaohm | End result is not a single bit of physical damage to person you did it on. | May 06 01:43 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I like that. | May 06 01:43 |
| oiaohm | Basically humans are incompetent. | May 06 01:44 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : u should practice kung-fu | May 06 01:44 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Hicham: There's a kung-fu school about 30 mins away from here, it's really legit. | May 06 01:44 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Part of training is that you just carry cinder blocks everywhere with you for a few weeks. | May 06 01:44 |
| LastGuyonEarth | I seriously want to get into it. | May 06 01:45 |
| _Hicham_ | go ahead | May 06 01:46 |
| oiaohm | I am a staff and walking stick fighter in weapons. | May 06 01:46 |
| oiaohm | I still remember using a hooked walking stick to take a top of one martial arts feet and proceed to walk of draging him with stick over shoulder. | May 06 01:47 |
| oiaohm | What use is a sword if you risk cutting your own foot off. | May 06 01:47 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Robot feet. | May 06 01:48 |
| oiaohm | Bladed weapons are designed to kill. | May 06 01:48 |
| LastGuyonEarth | So are well-formed firsts. | May 06 01:48 |
| oiaohm | staff and walking stick can be used to kill or capture. | May 06 01:48 |
| LastGuyonEarth | *fists | May 06 01:49 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Wow. | May 06 01:49 |
| oiaohm | I prefer my attacker alive to question. | May 06 01:49 |
| oiaohm | They might not prefer it of course that as part of questioning I can be breaking arms. | May 06 01:50 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Eh. | May 06 01:51 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Whatever floats your boat. | May 06 01:52 |
| oiaohm | No one who has attacked me has end up dead. | May 06 01:52 |
| oiaohm | some badly regret it. | May 06 01:52 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Yeah. | May 06 01:57 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Well hey, I'm gonna pop out for a bit, I'm re-encoding all my videos in OGG Theora to throw up onto Blip.tv and Miro. | May 06 01:57 |
| LastGuyonEarth | Later! | May 06 01:57 |
| *LastGuyonEarth has quit ("Leaving") | May 06 01:57 | |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : have u worked with OpenGL before? | May 06 01:59 |
| oiaohm | Most of the time not direct _Hicham_ | May 06 02:00 |
| oiaohm | I normally use a 3d engine of some form. | May 06 02:00 |
| _Hicham_ | is it possible to use two OpenGL viewports simultaneously on X11? | May 06 02:01 |
| oiaohm | Yes and no answer there. | May 06 02:02 |
| oiaohm | It dependant on video card drivers. | May 06 02:02 |
| _Hicham_ | what about r300 driver? | May 06 02:02 |
| oiaohm | DRI 1 design x.org is trying to get rid of only supports 1 viewport. | May 06 02:03 |
| oiaohm | Stablely. | May 06 02:03 |
| oiaohm | I guess the open source drivers _Hicham_? | May 06 02:03 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | May 06 02:03 |
| oiaohm | They have not updated to DRI 2 last time I checked. | May 06 02:03 |
| oiaohm | DRI2 allows as many as you like. | May 06 02:04 |
| _Hicham_ | what about xserver 1.6? | May 06 02:04 |
| oiaohm | xserver 1.6 can operate in DRI1 or DRI2 mode. | May 06 02:04 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora and Ubuntu are including it | May 06 02:04 |
| _Hicham_ | I will upgrade to Fedora 11 beta to take advantage of it | May 06 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Its purely mode releated. | May 06 02:05 |
| oiaohm | And if r300 drivers work fully on DRI2 yet. | May 06 02:05 |
| oiaohm | It should be all sorted out by end of year. | May 06 02:05 |