Bonum Certa Men Certa

Flashback 2003: Debian has always had a toxic culture

posted by Roy Schestowitz on Mar 18, 2024

Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock.

People are estimating that Debian has spent over $200,000 paying women to be volunteers through Outreachy. At the end of their Outreachy programs, they all disappear. Would it be better to use this money to get advice about fixing the culture? The payments to women are an admission that Debian culture is bad and women won't have anything to do with it voluntarily.

Despite everybody knowing the culture of the group is the root of all evil, they continue to look for scapegoats. If they can just punish one more person, everybody else will behave nicely, Debian will be "safe" and women will join.

Here is an email from the debian-private (widely leaked) gossip network giving an insight into the culture in 2003. It looks a lot like the culture today. In 20 years, despite all the forced resignations and expulsions nothing really changed.

Subject: Re: Fwd: Rejecting NM applicant Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:47:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: Martin Wheeler <msw@startext.demon.co.uk>
To: mark@dulug.duke.edu
CC: debian-private@lists.debian.org

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 mark@dulug.duke.edu wrote:
> > Dang. Maybe we should streamline our process. > > Double dang. If we can't find a way to get Norm in (who BTW offered to maintain > all the DocBook packages), then something about the application process needs to > be fixed.
. . .
> > I am rejecting the Debian New Maintainer Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> on > > his own request. Norman, unfortunatly, does not have enough time to spend > > for the NM process
I heartily concur.
I too, have abandoned the process of attempting to become an NM. And, I suspect, for many of the same reasons. Having had to wait for over a year for any real response to my initial enthusiasm, I had already lost most of my interest in becoming a DD (for documentation only), and had only lukewarm reactions to the mails I eventually received. (Mainly upbraiding me with comments like: "you have to really, really want this, you know" -- at the same time making me wonder why the hell I ever thought I might want to join this group of narcissistic navel-gazers -- and generally attempting to make me feel like a fourth-class citizen because my interests lie only in lowly documentation, NOT in the highly-valued elite skills of programming/packaging.)
Overall, I was given a very strong impression that DDs regard themselves as being the 'l33test of the 'l33t; that in going through the NM process it is more important to be recognised as being a putative member of a highly exclusive undergraduate-style sorority / club than it is to have any technical expertise to offer to the group; and that unwarranted sobbery and attitudes of exclusivity of the group reign supreme. (Really. This attitude came over to me more strongly than any other -- which surprised me greatly, as I am personally acquainted with a few DDs, none of whom comes over to me in that way at all.)
Frankly though, I eventually lost interest. (Is it any wonder?) To the point where I couldn't even be bothered to reply any more to any of the mails I received. (Round about the P&P stage.) There was NO real or effective dialogue between myself and the group I thought I could offer something to; and in fact, very little real desire to offer anything any more, on my part. Is it any wonder then that in these circumstances once-enthusiastic folks just quietly drift away?
My last dealings with the NM process were when I went on an irc channel -- to be met instantly with a hostile: "what are you doing here? I thought we got rid of you two weeks ago."
Why on earth should I persist in trying to offer my skills to a group like that?
Genuinely puzzled,

Here is what the thread looks like. Women seem to have a nose for this type of thing. They feel really uncomfortable when their name appears in something like this so they don't even begin to get involved.

Norman Walsh, Debian, gossip

Other Recent Techrights' Posts

The Grapevine Says IBM's American RAs (Mass Layoffs) Soon to Follow European RAs, PIPs and "Reviews" as Pretext for a Likely Baseless Dismissal
The days of honourable corporations and work ethics are long gone it seems...
Links 23/01/2026: Growing Censorship, Intel Falls (Another Bubble, Propped Up by Cheeto Bailout), and Huge GAFAM Layoffs Continue
Links for the day
Working for Freedom Makes You a Target
it's not about what you do but about who gets served
Claim That IBM Mass Layoffs Began Again in Europe, With Rumours It'll Close Offices
Unless IBM issues a statement (admission) to the media or issues WARN notices (in the US), the lousy media will simply assume - however wrongly - that nothing is happening and there's nothing to report
 
Links 24/01/2026: TikTok Controlled by Alt Reich in US Now, White House Shares Fake, Manipulated, Misleading Images Already
Links for the day
Projection Tactics - Part IV: SLAPP by Americans Against Techrights (UK) to Hide Serious Abuses Against American Women
"PRs need to stop being complicit in suppression of information via SLAPPs"
Dirty Laundry at Debian and Elsewhere
We cannot just brush aside real issues involving real people and their families
Illegal, Unconstitutional Kangaroo Court for Patents Drops the Masks, Shows Its Real Purpose is to Serve Multinational Monopolists and Crush European SMEs
Europe (or the EU) is rapidly becoming a corporate project, not a unified governance initiative
The "Alicante Mafia" - Part X - EPO Strikes to Begin Next Week
Things gradually escalate this month
Gemini Links 24/01/2026: Snow, Boxing, and Lisp is Fun
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, January 23, 2026
IRC logs for Friday, January 23, 2026
Senior management and HR email privacy: Martin Ebnoether (venty), Axel Beckert (xtaran) & Debian abuse in Switzerland
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Pierre-Elliott Bécue, ANSSI & Debian cybertorture
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
MJ Ray, Micah Anderson & Debian on drugs, prostitution at DebConf6 fight
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Excellence in Ethics: a list of victories for the truth
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Richard Stallman Giving Public Talk, Answering Questions From the Audience
We understand (from the organisers) that there will be a video of the talk
Forbes Covers in 2026 What Was Already Clear for Over a Decade: Microsoft's BitLocker 'Encryption' is a Back Door
One that's promoted by the loudest boosters of UEFI 'secure boot' as well
Links 23/01/2026: Minus 24 deg C in South Korea, "Iran Internet Blackout Passes Two-Week Mark"
Links for the day
Gemini Links 23/01/2026: "Witch Watch" and English on the Net
Links for the day
Reminder That "Linux" in the Site's Name (and Domain) Does Not Imply Authentic Journalism About GNU/Linux
the sad fact that some once-legitimate sites became slopfarms
Further Comments Illuminate Observations Regarding IBM's Layoffs (RAs) Plan for Europe
Some shed light on the expected scale
Appeasing Bullies Doesn't Work
The reason we're still here and very active is that we're good at what we do
How Microsoft Will Tell Shareholders That the Business is Failing in a Few Days
It'll resort to "AI" storytelling (lying about slop having potential for some unspecified future year)
Flying to See Today's Talk by Richard Stallman
It's probably not too late to reserve a seat for today's talk
The Fall of Freenode Didn't Kill IRC and the Web's Issues (Not Limited to LLM Slop) Didn't Kill Everything
As long as there are enough people willing to keep the simple (or "old") stuff it'll refuse to die
GAFAM Layoffs by Performance Improvement Plans (PIPs) Hide the Real Scale of Their Financial Troubles
the "official" numbers of layoffs will never tell the true story
'Domesticated' Animals Not More Valuable Than Free-range Wildlife, Proprietary ('Commercial') Software Isn't Better Than Free Software
the proprietary software giants (companies like SAP or Microsoft) have a lot of lobbyists
The "Alicante Mafia" - Part IX - EPO Budget Funnelled Into Cocaine and Moreover Rewards Cocaine-Addicted Management for Getting Busted by Police
Any day that passes without European media and European politicians doing anything about it merely discredits the media and the EU (or national governments)
Richard Stallman Won't Talk About "AI", He'll Talk About Chatbots and LLMs Lacking Any Intelligence
This really irritates people who dislike the message; so they attack the person
Slopfarms Still Fed by Google, Boosting Fake 'Articles' That Pretend to Cover "Linux"
At this point about 80-90% of the search results appear not to be slopfarms
Gemini Links 23/01/2026: The Danish Approach to Deepfakes and Random vi Things
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, January 22, 2026
IRC logs for Thursday, January 22, 2026
Five Years Ago, After We Broke the Story About Richard Stallman Rejoining the FSF's Board, All Hell Broke Loose (for Me and My Family)
They generally seem to target anyone who thinks Richard Stallman (RMS) should be in charge or thinks alike about computing
Links 22/01/2026: Slop Fantasy About Patents, Retirement in China Now Reached at Age Seventy
Links for the day
Gemini Links 22/01/2026: Why Europe Does Not Need GAFAMs, XScreenSaver Tinkering, FlatCube
Links for the day
Salvadorans' Usage of GNU/Linux Measured at Record Levels
All-time high
Links 22/01/2026: Ubisoft Layoffs Disguised as "RTO", US "Congress Wants To Hand Your Parenting To GAFAM", Americans' Image Tarnished Among Canadians (Now Planning to "Repel US Invasion")
Links for the day
10 Easy Steps to Follow for Digital Sovereignty in Nations That Distrust GAFAM et al
When "enough is enough"
No, the Problem at IBM/Red Hat Isn't Diversity
Microsoft Lunduke also openly shows his admiration for Pedo Cheeto
Do Not Link to Linuxiac Anymore, Linuxiac Became a Slopfarm
now Linuxiac is slop
Dr. Andy Farnell Explains Why Slop Companies Like Anthropic and Microsoft 'Open' 'AI' Basically Plunder and Rob People
This article was published last night at around 10
Richard Stallman (RMS) at Georgia Tech Tomorrow
After the talk we'll write a lot about "cancel culture" and online mobs fostered and emboldened in social control media
Software Patents by Any Other Name
There is no such thing as "AI" patents
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, January 21, 2026
IRC logs for Wednesday, January 21, 2026
The "Alicante Mafia" - Part VIII - Salary Cuts to Staff, 100,000 Euros to Managers Busted Using Cocaine (for Doing Absolutely Nothing, Just Pretending to be "Sick")
Today we look at slides from the union
Gemini Links 22/01/2026: Forest Monk, Aurora Observation, and Arduino Officially Launches the More Powerful Arduino UNO Q 4GB Single-Board Computer
Links for the day
Next Week is Close Enough for Wall Street Storytelling About 'Efficiency' by Layoffs for "AI"
This coming week GAFAM and others will tell some creative tales about how "AI" something something...
Google News Still a Feeder of Slop About "Linux", Which Became Rarer in 2026
Our main concern these days is what happened to Linuxiac. Bobby Borisov became a chatbots addict.