Bonum Certa Men Certa

Flashback 2003: Debian has always had a toxic culture

posted by Roy Schestowitz on Mar 18, 2024

Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock.

People are estimating that Debian has spent over $200,000 paying women to be volunteers through Outreachy. At the end of their Outreachy programs, they all disappear. Would it be better to use this money to get advice about fixing the culture? The payments to women are an admission that Debian culture is bad and women won't have anything to do with it voluntarily.

Despite everybody knowing the culture of the group is the root of all evil, they continue to look for scapegoats. If they can just punish one more person, everybody else will behave nicely, Debian will be "safe" and women will join.

Here is an email from the debian-private (widely leaked) gossip network giving an insight into the culture in 2003. It looks a lot like the culture today. In 20 years, despite all the forced resignations and expulsions nothing really changed.

Subject: Re: Fwd: Rejecting NM applicant Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 20:47:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: Martin Wheeler <msw@startext.demon.co.uk>
To: mark@dulug.duke.edu
CC: debian-private@lists.debian.org

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 mark@dulug.duke.edu wrote:
> > Dang. Maybe we should streamline our process. > > Double dang. If we can't find a way to get Norm in (who BTW offered to maintain > all the DocBook packages), then something about the application process needs to > be fixed.
. . .
> > I am rejecting the Debian New Maintainer Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> on > > his own request. Norman, unfortunatly, does not have enough time to spend > > for the NM process
I heartily concur.
I too, have abandoned the process of attempting to become an NM. And, I suspect, for many of the same reasons. Having had to wait for over a year for any real response to my initial enthusiasm, I had already lost most of my interest in becoming a DD (for documentation only), and had only lukewarm reactions to the mails I eventually received. (Mainly upbraiding me with comments like: "you have to really, really want this, you know" -- at the same time making me wonder why the hell I ever thought I might want to join this group of narcissistic navel-gazers -- and generally attempting to make me feel like a fourth-class citizen because my interests lie only in lowly documentation, NOT in the highly-valued elite skills of programming/packaging.)
Overall, I was given a very strong impression that DDs regard themselves as being the 'l33test of the 'l33t; that in going through the NM process it is more important to be recognised as being a putative member of a highly exclusive undergraduate-style sorority / club than it is to have any technical expertise to offer to the group; and that unwarranted sobbery and attitudes of exclusivity of the group reign supreme. (Really. This attitude came over to me more strongly than any other -- which surprised me greatly, as I am personally acquainted with a few DDs, none of whom comes over to me in that way at all.)
Frankly though, I eventually lost interest. (Is it any wonder?) To the point where I couldn't even be bothered to reply any more to any of the mails I received. (Round about the P&P stage.) There was NO real or effective dialogue between myself and the group I thought I could offer something to; and in fact, very little real desire to offer anything any more, on my part. Is it any wonder then that in these circumstances once-enthusiastic folks just quietly drift away?
My last dealings with the NM process were when I went on an irc channel -- to be met instantly with a hostile: "what are you doing here? I thought we got rid of you two weeks ago."
Why on earth should I persist in trying to offer my skills to a group like that?
Genuinely puzzled,

Here is what the thread looks like. Women seem to have a nose for this type of thing. They feel really uncomfortable when their name appears in something like this so they don't even begin to get involved. █

Norman Walsh, Debian, gossip

Other Recent Techrights' Posts

"My Hands Are Shaking While Writing" About IBM's Mass Layoffs at Red Hat (Bluewashing)
Shame, shame, shame on the corporate media for not covering Red Hat's layoffs this year
Taking a Look at the Last Articles of Bob Cringely at Forbes, They Were All About IBM and Its Collapse
It's all about IBM
What is "Computer Science"? It is What Broligarchs Reject.
Nowadays some people call themselves informal terms or made-up titles (with terms like "AI" or "big data" or "data" tossed into the mix)
Brigading Against Women - Part XXVII - Americans and Public Executions
"People who work for Facebook / Xitter / Bytedance's Tiktok / Microsoft / Oracle / IBM / Apple / Uber / Lyft / Wolt / DoorDash / AirBnB / Bolt / and so on are doing some world-class projection when they have the audacity to call others Bad People(tm)"
Gemini Links 12/10/2026: Westminster Quarters, Civilization, Luddites, and More
Links for the day
 
Intercontinental Brigading - Part I - The Failed Attempt to 'Swat' Our Series About the Attacks and Crimes Committed Against Us
This coincided with threats to our lives
Links 12/10/2026: Strike on Riyadh and GOP Pays Voters ("Surprise $90 Social Security Payments")
Links for the day
Microsoft's XBox CEO Spoke of a "Return to Growth" Last Week, But XBox Sales Lowest in XBox History (Quarter of a Century)
Microsoft's XBox is dying. It's a countdown to nothingness.
Links 12/10/2026: Shopify (Slop Booster) Has Security Issues, "Russia’s Yandex Says Data Center in Vladimir Shut Down After Drone Attack"
Links for the day
Microsoft Windows Causes Problems (and Delays) to LibreOffice and The Document Foundation
Nothing would please Microsoft more than Windows curtailing the development of LibreOffice and adoption of ODF
So Far This Year Microsoft Windows Lost a Lot of Ground in China, GNU/Linux Gaining at Its Expense
GNU/Linux will soon exceed 10%
Lessons of Margaret Hamilton (Software Engineer)
Stop abetting men who attack women in the sciences
RIP, Bob Cringely
He was too young to leave us, his articles were still brilliant and his mind as lucid as ever
Linus Torvalds Has a Conflict of Interest Regarding Slop
Linus Torvalds is paid by the slop pushers
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, October 11, 2026
IRC logs for Sunday, October 11, 2026
Africa Sees GNU/Linux Exceeding 5% "Market Share"
It wasn't always like this. It used to be measured at 1 or 2 percent.
Slop-ware Is Not Newsworthy
LLMs are exceptionally loquacious and create large code bases
Links 11/10/2026: US Sides With Vladimir Putin, Convicted Felon Dubbed "Agent of a Foreign Power"
Links for the day
IRC Tracker Back in Order, Number of Known IRC Networks Continues to Increase
We don't know if our article helped trigger a resolution
Links 11/10/2026: "Execution TV" (Iran Aped by US) and ‘Digital Oblivion’ Caused by Slop Frenzy Online
Links for the day
Voice for the Impoverished
the country's leaders attack the country's own press
Gemini Links 11/10/2026: Adults Dressing Up as Animals, 44th Birthday, and More
Links for the day
Running a Country's Economy by Borrowing Over $400,000,000,000 Per Month
This is the hallmark of an economy in irreversible decline
Brigading Against Women - Part XXVI - Trying to Deplatform Critics of Microsoft's Restricted Boot
Like James Bottomley, Matthew Garrett served Microsoft's agenda while employed and salaried by other companies
Anderon Is Not a Real Company, It's an IBM Bailout Dressed Up or Wrapped Up In Buzzwords
It certainly does seem like they receive money from taxpayers for nothing, or for IBM to do mass layoffs/closure at Albany under the guise of "making a new spinoff"...
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, October 10, 2026
IRC logs for Saturday, October 10, 2026
Gemini Links 10/10/2026: Radio Romania International, Avoiding GAFAM, Open Camera, and Another Palm
Links for the day
The 2026 Slop Prediction (Slopfarms Perishing)
Morality in the "digital world" has deteriorated profoundly
netsplit.de (Survey of IRC Networks and History) Only Partly Functional This Month
Get well soon, netsplit.de
Microsoft Cuts
GAFAM enshittification
NVIDIA Acts Like It Cannot Pay Salaries (Too Many Obligations, Sales in Circular Financing, or Basically Accounting Fraud)
Masters of acting as clients of themselves
Paying for elections, Reform UK illegal confession in High Court
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Contemptuous Law Firm Accusing Others of Contempt of Court
Keeping a running tally can help
Links 10/10/2026: Let's Encrypt Making Changes (Problem for Small Sites/Operations), Quartz is Officially a Slopfarm (Busted)
Links for the day
Microsoft Abuses PERM and Lays Off Workers in India
The US government has made it easier for Microsoft to hide the mass layoffs
The GAFAM Elections in the United States
If the election is run by platforms that have back doors "baked-in" and if the communications are overseen by GAFAM, you would not have to be a "nutty MAGAt" to dispute the outcome
More GAFAM Layoffs (Late on Friday Night)
They say they are worth trillions, but they don't even make money
Male-Dominated EPO Fails to Have "Concrete Measures to Support Female Staff"
Being a female at the EPO is exceptionally hard
Brigading Against Women - Part XXV - No Anonymity for People Who Did Illegal Things
"Empathy is the sunlight to the vampire of culture."
Production Freeze at the European Patent Office (Opposing Monarchy, Institutional Maladministration and Corruption)
Eight reasons to participate
Links 10/10/2026: Microsoft 'Open' 'AI' Silencing Critics, "Data Centres are the New Front Line in the Russia-Ukraine War"
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, October 09, 2026
IRC logs for Friday, October 09, 2026
Gemini Links 10/10/2026: Optimism, Stargazing, "Life Without Smartphone", and Fairphone 4
Links for the day