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| schestowitz | The Microsoft shills at ACT seem to have taken notice. http://blog.actonline.org/2008/06... What's funny is that they bothered to respond, which means they were worried by the criticism and resorted to name-calling ("tin foil hat"). | Jun 17 02:48 |
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| tessier_ | The reality is that Microsoft didn't need to do anything to FUD the GPLv3. There were so many legitimate problems with the license that the Open Source community led the charge on the so-called "FUD" campaign. | Jun 17 03:05 |
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| tessier_ | That's a quote from that blog entry | Jun 17 03:05 |
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| tessier_ | It seems to me they make some good points. There was a lot of internal fudding of the GPLv3 | Jun 17 03:05 |
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| tessier_ | Of course they aren't right about splitting the community | Jun 17 03:05 |
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| tessier_ | Everything seems to have calmed down nicely and lots of people are licensing their stuff under the GPLv3 | Jun 17 03:06 |
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| schestowitz | What they try to do there is pass liability. | Jun 17 03:13 |
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| schestowitz | Believe me, I've watched what they did. It's not just GPLv3. ACT is attacking everything that threatens Microsoft's monopoly. Have you seen the item they respond to? | Jun 17 03:14 |
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| dsmith_ | i left a comment | Jun 17 06:02 |
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| schestowitz | I now know which name you post under. Yes, but why scare quotes? :-) | Jun 17 06:06 |
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| dsmith_ | scare quotes?? | Jun 17 06:07 |
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| dsmith_ | lol | Jun 17 06:07 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... | Jun 17 06:07 |
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| dsmith_ | just my 2.2 cents | Jun 17 06:07 |
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| dsmith_ | you like van halen? | Jun 17 06:08 |
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| schestowitz | Not necessarily, why? | Jun 17 06:09 |
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| dsmith__ | power winked off | Jun 17 06:13 |
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| dsmith__ | I need to get a UPS... | Jun 17 06:13 |
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| schestowitz | I've posted a followup about the 'census': http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... | Jun 17 06:16 |
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| dsmith__ | http://www.mininglabs.com/2008... Seems Mozilla spent more time developing for windows and NOT Linux, as the chart shows increased memory usage which confirms what I just saw.. | Jun 17 06:20 |
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| schestowitz | Mozilla doesn't care so much about Linux. I have links to suggest otherwise, but at the end, just like Google, they are not a Free software company. They are market-share- and profit-driven. | Jun 17 06:24 |
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| dsmith__ | I am realizing that now | Jun 17 06:25 |
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| dsmith__ | http://www.crn.com/softwar... | Jun 17 06:25 |
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| tessier | How does mozilla make money? | Jun 17 06:30 |
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| schestowitz | They receive a lot of money from Google, but they claim to be sustainable without it. They rely on market share and they operate as a foundation (maybe a non-profit) to keep goodwill and free PR. | Jun 17 06:33 |
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| tessier | But what are people payign them for? | Jun 17 06:37 |
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| tessier | I've never paid them anything afaik | Jun 17 06:37 |
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| schestowitz | <dsmith_>, I took a look at the CRN article. I saw it half an hour ago and it's from Fahmida Y. Rashid, who slammed a new Linux distro just over a week ago. He's not anti-Linux, but I'll wait and see what others write too. The performance study is disappointing indeed, if true. | Jun 17 06:38 |
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| schestowitz | <tessier>, it's the default search engine and if you put a phrase in the address bar and click ENTER/Go, then you are redirected via Google. | Jun 17 06:39 |
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| dsmith__ | schestowitz: I just tried ff 3 on thi laptop and I saw no performance enhancements, no on windows thats another story | Jun 17 06:40 |
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| schestowitz | Have you tried both? They ought to share the same core (codebase), so what would be the explanation? | Jun 17 06:42 |
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| tessier | ah, I see. | Jun 17 06:43 |
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| tessier | I have used their search many times in that case. | Jun 17 06:43 |
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| schestowitz | Google needs access to people's brains. It harvests queries, IPs, browsing history (e.g. if you have PageRank displayed) and even things like screen resolution if you visit Google Analytics-enabled sites with JS running. | Jun 17 06:48 |
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| dsmith__ | schestowitz: yes both ff3 and ff2 on both linux and windows, I can see the improvements on windows.. | Jun 17 06:49 |
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| dsmith__ | cyas | Jun 17 06:53 |
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| schestowitz | Only in America......... can a single incident of cyberbullying put you in prison. http://uk.reuters.com/artic... | Jun 17 07:03 |
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| schestowitz | http://brucebyfield.wordpress.com/2008/0... | Jun 17 08:04 |
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| schestowitz | And related to this, I was sent an E-mail that said "Did you see the piece which Byfield did about Brockmeier? It struck me as somewhat incestuous." | Jun 17 08:08 |
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| PetoKraus | who is he/ | Jun 17 08:09 |
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| schestowitz | Now watch this: http://brucebyfield.wordpress.com/20... (Zonker Brockmeier, openSUSE Community Manager) | Jun 17 08:09 |
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| schestowitz | "Then, for large chunks of 2006 and 2007, I interacted with him daily on Linux.com’s private IRC channel, where he went under the nickname of jzb. So, as happens on the Internet, I likely have the impression that I know him better than I actually do." I like Byfield's writings a lot, but we disagreed on some technical/'political' things like Novell and OOXML. | Jun 17 08:10 |
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| tessier | Trolltech officially becomes Nokia in 1.5 hours. | Jun 17 08:16 |
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| schestowitz | The TROLL (symbol) enters the host. | Jun 17 08:17 |
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| schestowitz | Speaking of the Trolls, PJ wrote the following about Ari's latest blog item: "The more he says, the worse it gets." (on http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/200... ). You might think that they can use Qt to 'educate' NDE [sic] developers. I was hoping to see a retraction or clarification from Ari, but all I find is stuff like this: http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoo... | Jun 17 08:32 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | I'm wondering if we'll see a series of new projects spawned, like the OpenSuse, Fedora, and so on, but for projects like the trolltech qt stuff, mysql and the like. | Jun 17 08:35 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | ah, there goes the other me. | Jun 17 08:37 |
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| schestowitz | With Trolltech, doesn't the division already exist. And with MySQL dual-licence). Unless someone says F**K It (fork that is), the division (editions) seems unnecessary. | Jun 17 08:37 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | I thought that they both just had dual-licensing, which isn't really the same as a new project. | Jun 17 08:39 |
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| schestowitz | Is Fedora /really/ separate from Red Hat? CentOS is another interesting factor. | Jun 17 08:39 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | Ah, you're right, it was CentOS I was thinking of, rather than Fedora. | Jun 17 08:40 |
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| schestowitz | Just spotted this big hair pile of FUD: http://www.linuxinsider.com/rs... (WTF?) | Jun 17 08:43 |
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| schestowitz | One thing's for sure: all companies, even Sun and Red Hat, will try to bend Free software and steer over to their own terms while exploiting the most free labour. That includes Novell of course. | Jun 17 08:44 |
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| PetoKraus | @ that link: you know, people are stupid... | Jun 17 08:45 |
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| PetoKraus | fraud happens anywhere | Jun 17 08:45 |
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| schestowitz | Did you see the opening sentence? | Jun 17 08:45 |
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| PetoKraus | There's no free lunch or, evidently, free open source Verio brings something extra to Linux: reliability. Click to learn about free test. Latest News about open source software. | Jun 17 08:45 |
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| schestowitz | Sounds like Ballmer. | Jun 17 08:45 |
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| PetoKraus | :) | Jun 17 08:45 |
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| PetoKraus | smells like. | Jun 17 08:45 |
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| schestowitz | "No free soda," he said recently. | Jun 17 08:46 |
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| PetoKraus | hehe, i like how it copied the links as well | Jun 17 08:46 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | Another con-man. Free software is bound to attract a few conmen, because, like illicit DVD copying, the entry costs are very low. | Jun 17 08:46 |
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| schestowitz | It's not ECT, but some article they grabbed from press that probably doesn't understand licences. | Jun 17 08:46 |
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| schestowitz | Good observation. That's why con-man hang out in casinos. | Jun 17 08:47 |
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| schestowitz | *men | Jun 17 08:47 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | Yeah. Hey, aren't you getting a supercasino in Manchester? | Jun 17 08:47 |
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| schestowitz | I have a friend who works at one, but I wouldn't care if that were true. I went to a casino in Manc only once. It's a bore. | Jun 17 08:48 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | I'm not a great fan of them myself - they're just another tax for the less well off, to my mind. | Jun 17 08:49 |
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| schestowitz | In a Canadian casino I lost my wallet. | Jun 17 08:49 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | most people just lose the contents :-)) | Jun 17 08:50 |
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| schestowitz | Got to keep fantasies alive. Sport celebrities, Disney World, Beauty and the Beast, lottery.... | Jun 17 08:50 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | One sometimes wonders if we shouldn't return to our roundhouses in the woodlands, with the monster grendel at the crossroads up the way... | Jun 17 08:52 |
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| schestowitz | That might happen too. Planet Earth is running of capacity and TV/couch make more people a side-effect of broadcast and perceptions that are now being enforced (Microsoft patents on forced viewing). | Jun 17 08:54 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | another digest posted. | Jun 17 09:10 |
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| schestowitz | Nice one, thanks. They are read now only by searchers. Several sites have them mirrored. | Jun 17 09:12 |
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| schestowitz | The same goes for Groklaw News Picks, based on what I was told. It's good to keep knowledge circulating to counter 'marketing' and 'studies'. | Jun 17 09:13 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | It could be possible to automate more of the process, but then it'd have to be by using digital signatures. The advantage, the posts would appear when I don't have too much time, and I could save up the non-validated ones for later posting. The disadvantage? Anyone not using a digital sig would wait until I had time, and also that I would need to actually write the damn thing... currently it's a mix of sed | Jun 17 09:15 |
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| schestowitz | I suspect that most of what's in COLA is viewed as archived rather as 'news' (subscribed), so it probably doesn't matter much if it's posted immediately or not. I used to generate stats for some newsgroups and I did this semi-manually, so I could see what I post. | Jun 17 09:19 |
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| mark_antony_kent | I tend not to worry too much, as I agree with you, I think that cola is being used for finding obscure articles, and the digests are a great help with that. The fact that I still get complaints about them from the trolls would suggest that they're quite useful. | Jun 17 09:20 |
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| schestowitz | They sometimes nag about very specific articles or snippets, which is helpful because it tells you when you are on the right topic (hitting their sensitive spot). I am rather shocked today at the lack of news about/from Microsoft. The company has, in general, had little good news to deliver _in months_. | Jun 17 09:23 |
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| mark_antony_kent | If they had some, they'd be shouting it from the rooftops. Recession is not a great time for anyone, and for a company in Microsoft's rather precarious position, it's particularly nasty. They have no assets. | Jun 17 09:25 |
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| schestowitz | By the way, we might soon have some space and reason to look at other companies that /still/ try to battle a return to Free software days. IBM is still _a little_ FOSS-hostile (more than Sun, less than Oracle) and the rumours about DB2 open source (from the British press) has been just squashed by IBM. The financial reports from IBM and Microsoft are going to be as grim as Sun's. | Jun 17 09:26 |
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| mark_antony_kent | IBM have a very strong foss and linux unit, but they remain a hardware integrator at heart. This is quite good from the foss viewpoint, as they're as likely to be helpful as not. | Jun 17 09:28 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, that sums it up well. At least they adopt with RMS often speaks about. hHeir proprietary software aside, they make a lot of money offering services like support and customisation . Hardware too. | Jun 17 09:31 |
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| tessier | I interviewed with IBM once. What a nightmare. And their final excuse for not hiring me was pitiful. I know Rex works there these days. | Jun 17 09:32 |
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| schestowitz | Can you share their excuse. It was rather shocking to find that Rex once had an interview at Microsoft (do did my sister), but he didn't have "the religion". | Jun 17 09:33 |
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| tessier | I did a few phone interviews and at least one or two in-person interviews and put quite a bit of time into it and finally they said they "wanted someone with more sales experience." | Jun 17 09:36 |
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| tessier | I never listed any sales experience anywhere on my resume and never claimed to have any. | Jun 17 09:36 |
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| tessier | They should have known from the very beginning I wasn't what they wanted if they weren't willing to train a tech guy on sales. | Jun 17 09:36 |
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| tessier | And I had to call them a week or so later as a follow-up just to find that out. | Jun 17 09:37 |
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| tessier | The primary interviewer asked me how much I made at my last job. I told him. He seemed skeptical and asked if I could prove it. I said I could. The whole experience didn't come off as very professional. | Jun 17 09:37 |
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| schestowitz | Interviews are a pain, especially when one is committed to them and invests time. | Jun 17 09:37 |
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| tessier | Not that what I made at my last job should matter. I hate companies who hire that way. But it seems most do. | Jun 17 09:37 |
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| schestowitz | They want to see how little they can afford to pay out. They want the candidate the name the number. Mark should know this well because he does interviews. | Jun 17 09:38 |
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| tessier | I know. They want to screw the candidate over and get him cheap. Which is a first indication of a crappy place to work. | Jun 17 09:39 |
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| tessier | After that particular experience I just started making up the number I wanted to be paid. | Jun 17 09:39 |
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| schestowitz | Speaking of IBM, sour grapes are not worth it. The company is gradually moving to the east anyway. | Jun 17 09:39 |
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| tessier | Indeed. | Jun 17 09:39 |
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| schestowitz | Any time another round of axing is done, then I just hope Rex will be 'safe' He too seems to be making trips to India these days, so I imagine he'/s passing on skills. | Jun 17 09:40 |
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| tessier | Yeah. Last email I got from him he was in India. | Jun 17 09:40 |
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| tessier | Wish I could catch up with him some day. Would be cool to meet the guy I've known online for 15 years or whatever. | Jun 17 09:41 |
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| schestowitz | His posts tell me that Ballard deploys virtualised servers and mixed environments (probably UNIX/Linux... z series) in a country which evidently moves in that direction. | Jun 17 09:41 |
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| *tessier does a lot with virtualization as well | Jun 17 09:42 |
| tessier | I need to do some more work on my project website: xenaoe.org | Jun 17 09:42 |
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| tessier | Need to finish writing a bunch of documentation, get the svn repository linked into the site, etc. | Jun 17 09:42 |
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| schestowitz | BTW, what's the command in IRC which does what you just did ("* tessier does a lot with virtualization as well") | Jun 17 09:42 |
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| tessier | /me does this action | Jun 17 09:43 |
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| *schestowitz tests this thing | Jun 17 09:43 |
| schestowitz | Thanks. | Jun 17 09:43 |
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| tessier | There ya go | Jun 17 09:43 |
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| *tessier has been an IRC addict since 1993 | Jun 17 09:43 |
| tessier | I discovered it when I first arrived at college. I also discovered that IRC stands for I Repeat Classes | Jun 17 09:44 |
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| *schestowitz started IRC around 96 and moved to ICQ | Jun 17 09:44 |
| tessier | When did you first start posting to cola and getting involved in Linux advocacy? | Jun 17 09:44 |
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| tessier | I used to read/post there regularly in the late 90's, then I quit for a few years, then I came back and you were dominating the group | Jun 17 09:45 |
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| schestowitz | Around 2005, I think. I was helping people with technical issues in USENET between 2004 and 2005. It gave me something to keep occupied between experiments (the PhD). | Jun 17 09:45 |
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| tessier | What sort of experiments? | Jun 17 09:46 |
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| schestowitz | COmputer vision. | Jun 17 09:46 |
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| tessier | Cool | Jun 17 09:46 |
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| tessier | You have a PhD in computer science? | Jun 17 09:46 |
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| schestowitz | I don't do that anymore. Academia is Jurassic age for technology. | Jun 17 09:46 |
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| tessier | Yeah. The latest stuff all happens in private industry it seems. | Jun 17 09:47 |
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| schestowitz | I'm dragging it now. http://schestowitz.com/Weblo... | Jun 17 09:48 |
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| tessier | Sounds like you'll get there slowly but surely. Congrats in advance. | Jun 17 09:50 |
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| tessier | viva is like thesis defense? | Jun 17 09:50 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it is. Just another fancy word for the equivalent of a face-to-face job interview. | Jun 17 09:53 |
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| tessier | Computer vision...a field of AI. I've read a lot about AI in the last year or two. The great AI winter, Lisp, etc. | Jun 17 10:00 |
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| tessier | As soon as we understand how something works we no longer consider it AI. Bayesian spam filtering should be considered AI but nobody really talks about it that way. | Jun 17 10:00 |
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| schestowitz | [Just came back] Yeah, but even AI is typically just simple brute-force stuff. Algorithms in general are not too exciting anymore. Also, many are reusable. | Jun 17 10:08 |
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| lojbanNewbie | hola | Jun 17 13:55 |
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| schestowitz | Hey there. | Jun 17 13:56 |
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| lojbanNewbie | What is so great about dotGNU that makes it better than Novell's Mono? | Jun 17 13:56 |
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| schestowitz | Why do you ask? | Jun 17 13:57 |
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| lojbanNewbie | I couldn't find anything about dotGNU on the BN website so I came here instead | Jun 17 13:57 |
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| lojbanNewbie | You're always ranting about Mono and not dotGNU | Jun 17 13:57 |
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| lojbanNewbie | I assume that dotGNU has your approval. I want to know why | Jun 17 13:58 |
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| schestowitz | Mono is being used to develop for Linux. | Jun 17 13:58 |
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| schestowitz | Hold on, I'll get you a URL. | Jun 17 13:58 |
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| schestowitz | http://thewolftipi.blog... | Jun 17 14:01 |
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| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 17 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Consider Novell's MonoDevelop and compare to Wine (compatibility layer only). There are many P/Ls that are not owned by a company that threatens to use software patents; basing the Free desktop on it seems insane and divisional protection moreso. | Jun 17 14:02 |
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| lojbanNewbie | So what about dotGNU? | Jun 17 14:03 |
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| schestowitz | <PetoKraus> : the ACT guys seem annoyed enough to comment and rebut ( http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/08/... ). Their masters at Redmond would be proud. | Jun 17 14:04 |
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| schestowitz | I think of dotGNU like I think of Mainsoft. I suspect their arm is to run, not to develop. Execution is no infringement, but IANAL. | Jun 17 14:05 |
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| PetoKraus | i wish the kernel would be gplv3ed | Jun 17 14:06 |
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| PetoKraus | though, who doesn't. | Jun 17 14:06 |
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| schestowitz | Let me put it this way: our aim is to gradually move people to GNU/Linux and a free API, but not to do so by embracing someone else's APIs and be at the mercy of your rival's rules. You can beat Microsoft at Microsoft's game. | Jun 17 14:06 |
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| schestowitz | RMS is a bit hostile towards Linux (not Linus), at least in the same that he feels bitter. I think the reaction from Linus is a tad personal too. He cursed RMS on several occasion (PJ even had to delete his comment because of this). | Jun 17 14:07 |
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| schestowitz | Jose, I think that the gist of it is that running our old applications in a transitory/transitional fashion is OK where it's permitted (Wine was no sin until the Novell deal that left doubt), but we have strength we should focus on. Microsoft is scared of things like Java, Qt, ODF... | Jun 17 14:10 |
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| lojbanNewbie | I don't particularly care for .net as there are already plenty of free technologies around | Jun 17 14:12 |
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| lojbanNewbie | I was reading your website and I wanted to know why Mono but not dotGNU | Jun 17 14:12 |
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| schestowitz | Despite the relatively small proportion of desktop Linux users, many of us are developers. Microsoft understands this and it tried to become universal by getting us dependent on .NET, XAML, OOXML, etc. In the news at the moment it's shown that almost nobody developers for Vista. And remember: DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS | Jun 17 14:13 |
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| PetoKraus | it's only 11 times, not 14 :/ | Jun 17 14:13 |
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| PetoKraus | :P | Jun 17 14:13 |
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| schestowitz | Yeah, I did a quick copy and paste (my typos probably tell that I don't proofread). :-) | Jun 17 14:14 |
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| schestowitz | <lojbanNewbie>, dotGNU isn't too worrying at the moment because it isn't actively being used to replace C/C++/Java/Python applications on the common GNU desktop. Think Totem -> Banshee, Gwenview -> fspot, that sort of thing... | Jun 17 14:15 |
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| schestowitz | Many core applications in GNOME (de facto) are being built from the ground up using Mono. | Jun 17 14:15 |
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| lojbanNewbie | I may be confused but can't you replace Mono with dotGNU and still have the programs run? | Jun 17 14:16 |
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| lojbanNewbie | I am assuming that dotGNU does implement everything that mono does | Jun 17 14:17 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, its aim it to run the applications. | Jun 17 14:18 |
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| schestowitz | I don't believe that the project was conceived as means of actually developing the GNU desktop though. See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... | Jun 17 14:19 |
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| lojbanNewbie | ok. I guess I understand now. | Jun 17 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | Please ask questions any time. I am not against running .NET, but I opine that Novell is using Mono to penalise competitors. It's the same with virtualisation. They try to gain added value using software patents and the problem is a _long-term_ one. | Jun 17 14:24 |
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| schestowitz | Just published a piece about OLPC: http://digg.com/linux_unix/If... | Jun 17 14:25 |
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| PetoKraus | i've read an article how .NET was big opportunity to clean up windows but it completely failed due to it's proposed scope | Jun 17 14:26 |
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| PetoKraus | (targetting all user groups, win32 legacy code dependant etc) | Jun 17 14:26 |
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| lojbanNewbie | It is a very big set of systems. | Jun 17 14:26 |
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| lojbanNewbie | Nothing can fix the Win32 api without breaking compatibility | Jun 17 14:27 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, OSNews wrote about this. | Jun 17 14:27 |
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| schestowitz | I think it was a Mac developers who complained about legacy stuff, concluding it was somewhat of a mess. | Jun 17 14:27 |
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| schestowitz | (I never used .NET, mind you, but I did some VB). | Jun 17 14:27 |
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| PetoKraus | "Oh that is a very interesting question! The I/O model is based on the Win32 model - we have to emulate the behaviour - and it turns out that behaviour is extremely nice. We went and implemented that. | Jun 17 14:27 |
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| PetoKraus | that's utter bullshit | Jun 17 14:28 |
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| schestowitz | <PetoKraus>, what is your level of experience with Windows programming. I could use your help! :-) | Jun 17 14:29 |
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| PetoKraus | none, it's just what i've heard, unfortunately :P | Jun 17 14:29 |
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| PetoKraus | but everyone blames win32 | Jun 17 14:30 |
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| PetoKraus | even windows developers.... | Jun 17 14:30 |
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| lojbanNewbie | I've used win32 before. It wasn't pleasant | Jun 17 14:30 |
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| lojbanNewbie | It's full of fooBar(hwnd,NULL NULL NULL | Jun 17 14:30 |
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| PetoKraus | the problem is - they are not gonna drop it soon | Jun 17 14:31 |
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| lojbanNewbie | heh. The joys of backwards compatibility | Jun 17 14:31 |
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| PetoKraus | i guess windows will always have to be 32 bit, just because it's commitment (a bit pervert commitment) to backwards compatibility. You beat me to it. | Jun 17 14:31 |
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| lojbanNewbie | On a proprietary software platform | Jun 17 14:31 |
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| schestowitz | On top of that, they lost a lot of compatibility with the revised model of Vista. They could soon compromise more. | Jun 17 14:32 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: if they made it properly, like, Mac OS X, that'd be good | Jun 17 14:32 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, <lojbanNewbie> , the key is permitting developers to do their thing with the code. | Jun 17 14:32 |
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| PetoKraus | but they created something half-baked... | Jun 17 14:32 |
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| lojbanNewbie | It's been how long already? | Jun 17 14:33 |
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| lojbanNewbie | 15 years? | Jun 17 14:33 |
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| schestowitz | Well, that's legacy, I guess. Go ahead and try to get that merged in blob form.. :-) | Jun 17 14:34 |
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| PetoKraus | well, every system strives with legacy... | Jun 17 14:34 |
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| PetoKraus | e.g. big kernel lock. | Jun 17 14:34 |
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| schestowitz | That's why system integration is the future. Being able to build a customised platform with legacy precompiled is possible. If there is demand for it, someone /will/ do it. | Jun 17 14:34 |
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| PetoKraus | well, the guys who forked off gentoo and are developing exherbo | Jun 17 14:35 |
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| schestowitz | Don't they resolve BKL right now? It was on KernelTrap recently. | Jun 17 14:35 |
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| PetoKraus | decided to do just that - simple, modern system | Jun 17 14:35 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: it's process which is ongoing... many parts of kernel rely on some form of kernel locking, so, they are trying to push and break the big lock in smaller parts | Jun 17 14:36 |
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| schestowitz | That lock affects some desktop distros too, I suspect. They generally seem to be moving into branches now (embedded announced by Morton recently and another by Greg KH). | Jun 17 14:37 |
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| PetoKraus | i had a crazy idea of | Jun 17 14:40 |
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| PetoKraus | gnu/hurd running on GPU instead of CPU | Jun 17 14:40 |
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| lojbanNewbie | that's crazy | Jun 17 14:41 |
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| PetoKraus | since GPU's are optimized for high amount of processes | Jun 17 14:41 |
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| PetoKraus | and hurd is quite a lot processes... | Jun 17 14:41 |
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| PetoKraus | *lot of | Jun 17 14:41 |
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| PetoKraus | could be fun. :) now i need the money to fund the developers. | Jun 17 14:41 |
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| lojbanNewbie | our GPUs are efficient for SIMD scenarios. | Jun 17 14:42 |
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| lojbanNewbie | the Hurd is a general purpose set of programs | Jun 17 14:42 |
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| lojbanNewbie | our GPUs are going to have a tougher time with Hurd in general than | Jun 17 14:44 |
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| schestowitz | NVIDIA has just cancelled iits 256-core GPU I think. | Jun 17 14:44 |
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| lojbanNewbie | with MISD scenarios that I imagine occurs on a Hurd system | Jun 17 14:45 |
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| PetoKraus | right | Jun 17 14:48 |
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| PetoKraus | going for a pint: http://www.infovek.sk/predmety/fyz... | Jun 17 14:48 |
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| lojbanNewbie | enjoy | Jun 17 14:49 |
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| *schestowitz looks | Jun 17 14:49 |
| PetoKraus | i always wondered where there is such style of serving of a pint as is on the image | Jun 17 14:49 |
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| PetoKraus | * in britain | Jun 17 14:49 |
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| PetoKraus | we call it "cut beer".... | Jun 17 14:50 |
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| schestowitz | It's a nice pair. Too much for driving. | Jun 17 14:50 |
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| PetoKraus | that's for sure. | Jun 17 14:50 |
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| lojbanNewbie | damn. I'm thirsty now | Jun 17 14:51 |
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| schestowitz | Just remember: no hacking on openssl after beer. | Jun 17 14:51 |
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| PetoKraus | :) | Jun 17 14:51 |
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| PetoKraus | was he drunk? | Jun 17 14:51 |
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| schestowitz | "It was just a line. Didn't even delete it. Just commented out!!11" | Jun 17 14:51 |
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| schestowitz | No, I don't know. | Jun 17 14:51 |
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| PetoKraus | where did you get that quote from? | Jun 17 14:52 |
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| schestowitz | Just made up. I didn't follow the Debian drama too closely. It made me nauseous. | Jun 17 14:53 |
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| *lojbanNewbie (n=user@202.92.44.173) has left #boycottnovell ("I thirst for some beers") | Jun 17 14:53 |
| PetoKraus | :) | Jun 17 14:53 |
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| PetoKraus | ok, bye, g2g | Jun 17 14:53 |
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| schestowitz | cya | Jun 17 14:53 |
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| schestowitz | @ Euruaran: http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/200... | Jun 17 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | Bravo to Simon Phipps (Sun): "Rumours that Nokia may understand open source are greatly exaggerated if these comments reflect the company's actual position. DRM? SIM locks? What needs to change is the mobile industry, not open source." ( http://blogs.sun.com/we... ) | Jun 17 15:28 |
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| *mark_antony_ken2 (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has left #boycottnovell | Jun 17 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | Just posted the following http://boycottnovell.com/200... : "To those who are IRC regulars: if you wish to add your favourite avatar — to be displayed adjacent to your messages in the logs — please mail it to me ( roy at schestowitz dot com ) or post below as a comment the URL containing the image. sed makes it all this simple to achieve." | Jun 17 16:02 |
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| schestowitz | We can add homepage URL to turn a nick into a hyperlink. If you prefer. :-) | Jun 17 16:03 |
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| mark_antony_kent | avatar... hmmm, what's old, greying, a little decrepit, in need of early retirement, yesterday's man, etc... ah, I know, gimme a windows logo :-) | Jun 17 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | Really? | Jun 17 16:15 |
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| *mark_antony_ken1 (n=user@host81-157-149-2.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 17 16:18 |
| mark_antony_ken1 | nah - only joking | Jun 17 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | What will it be then? | Jun 17 16:19 |
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| Eruaran | hullo | Jun 17 16:40 |
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| Eruaran | I'm starting to become suspicious | Jun 17 16:40 |
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| *schestowitz listens | Jun 17 16:40 |
| Eruaran | I've seen so many people attacking KDE4 lately | Jun 17 16:41 |
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| Eruaran | Some of it is absolutely vitriolic | Jun 17 16:41 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, but some are trusted members of the 'community'. | Jun 17 16:41 |
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| *theoddone (n=hilton@dsl-241-169-202.telkomadsl.co.za) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 17 16:41 |
| schestowitz | The "sucks bug time" one was just bad. Troy did damage control earlier and I was going to post many KDE links within a couple of hours. | Jun 17 16:41 |
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| Eruaran | And there are those also who just buy into it and attack as well | Jun 17 16:41 |
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| schestowitz | Look up at the pointer I gave you: http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/2008/0... | Jun 17 16:42 |
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| Eruaran | Yes I saw that ty | Jun 17 16:42 |
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| Eruaran | Alot of it seems to be deliberately misrepresentative | Jun 17 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | Hans has been using KDE for many years. He's not nasty, so he's off the hook, so to speak. | Jun 17 16:43 |
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| schestowitz | Beramger on the other hand just curses everything in the world. | Jun 17 16:44 |
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| Eruaran | I mean more those who keep popping up in the blog responses | Jun 17 16:44 |
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| schestowitz | What was your suspicion as you call it? | Jun 17 16:44 |
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| Eruaran | I'm starting to wonder about the motivation | Jun 17 16:44 |
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| Eruaran | If there aren't a group of people deliberately going out of their way to slag off on it | Jun 17 16:45 |
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| schestowitz | A friend of mine who is a professor opines that Microsoft boosters (that's what he calls them) game some online content to subvert Linux. But that's just him anyway. There were also alerts recently about a rise in anti-Linux sites. | Jun 17 16:45 |
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| Eruaran | Its speculation on my part | Jun 17 16:45 |
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| schestowitz | The Windows trolls in USENET go out of their way to slag off KDE 4. It intensified in the past month. They also attacked Ubuntu when 8.04 was released, then Fedora. | Jun 17 16:46 |
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| Eruaran | I mean people, and desktop projects have had their differences before and for a while things were very friendly... then suddenly I see a rising tide of vitriol against KDE4.x from people, most of whom, don't even use it and betray their ignorance in their posts | Jun 17 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, Hilton Gibson. | Jun 17 16:47 |
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| *theoddone (n=hilton@dsl-241-169-202.telkomadsl.co.za) has left #boycottnovell ("Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org") | Jun 17 16:47 |
| Eruaran | yes, it seems like a bit of a 'rent a crowd' that wasn't there before | Jun 17 16:48 |
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| schestowitz | There are firms for that. I wrote about Microsoft in this context recently. | Jun 17 16:48 |
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| *theoddone (n=hilton@dsl-241-169-202.telkomadsl.co.za) has left #boycottnovell ("Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org") | Jun 17 16:51 |
| moparx | hey all | Jun 17 16:57 |
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| *mark_antony_kent waves | Jun 17 16:58 |
| *moparx waves back | Jun 17 16:58 |
| PetoKraus | hello | Jun 17 16:58 |
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| *PetoKraus thinks, that in retrospective, drinking beer in 30C was not a good idea. | Jun 17 16:58 |
| schestowitz | <PetoKraus>, <moparx>: do you have an avatar you want added to IRC logs? Just a small image really... | Jun 17 16:59 |
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| *mark_antony_kent thinks sit in the fridge and drink it? | Jun 17 16:59 |
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: no | Jun 17 16:59 |
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| PetoKraus | mark_antony_kent: draught is draught... | Jun 17 16:59 |
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| mark_antony_kent | PetoKraus: you're in the pub? | Jun 17 16:59 |
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| schestowitz | I used to get dressed up in the fridge. | Jun 17 16:59 |
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| PetoKraus | mark_antony_kent: not anymore | Jun 17 17:00 |
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| mark_antony_kent | schestowitz: err, why? | Jun 17 17:00 |
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| mark_antony_kent | PetoKraus: aha, I start to understand. perhaps some coffee? | Jun 17 17:00 |
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| PetoKraus | :) | Jun 17 17:00 |
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| PetoKraus | shower. | Jun 17 17:00 |
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| schestowitz | I came to work sweating. t was a very big fridge. | Jun 17 17:00 |
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| schestowitz | Meat freezer. | Jun 17 17:00 |
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| moparx | IRC avatars, eh? | Jun 17 17:01 |
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| mark_antony_kent | PetoKraus: my kids are in the little pool thing outside - I know because I heard the screams of agony when they got in :-) | Jun 17 17:01 |
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| PetoKraus | :D | Jun 17 17:01 |
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| PetoKraus | moparx: on logs | Jun 17 17:01 |
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| mark_antony_kent | schestowitz: ah, okay - some kind of butchery job :-) | Jun 17 17:01 |
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| moparx | I know :p | Jun 17 17:01 |
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| schestowitz | Burger King. I was 17. | Jun 17 17:01 |
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| mark_antony_kent | schestowitz: well, it's a job | Jun 17 17:01 |
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| mark_antony_kent | and it'll probably put you off burgers for ever :-) | Jun 17 17:02 |
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| schestowitz | Not quite. I had loads while I was there. Fed up for just a while. But either way, Ieat healthier now. | Jun 17 17:02 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: i've found that utility to DL mp4 files from you to be | Jun 17 17:03 |
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| PetoKraus | it's in gentoo portage | Jun 17 17:04 |
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| schestowitz | I have one that grabs the Flash. I then use ffmpeg2theora | Jun 17 17:04 |
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| moparx | ooo my defectivebydesign anti-drm stickers came in the mail. now what shall I use them on :) | Jun 17 17:05 |
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| schestowitz | It's time consuming though, so I'll probably do video just once or twice a week. | Jun 17 17:05 |
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| mark_antony_kent | moparx: well, you could put one on your car rear window... | Jun 17 17:05 |
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| schestowitz | <moparx>, how about using them as an avatar? | Jun 17 17:05 |
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| moparx | that works.. hehe | Jun 17 17:06 |
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| schestowitz | <moparx>, you mean, works for the car or works for the logs? | Jun 17 17:08 |
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| moparx | both :) | Jun 17 17:08 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | hehe | Jun 17 17:08 |
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| PetoKraus | well, i got nice stickers from being FSF member | Jun 17 17:08 |
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| PetoKraus | i got even Free Software, Free Society book | Jun 17 17:08 |
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| PetoKraus | it was a nice present :) | Jun 17 17:09 |
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| moparx | nice :) | Jun 17 17:09 |
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| Eruaran | I couldn't help myself | Jun 17 17:12 |
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| Eruaran | I posted an angry response to Mr, "Ahhh... So, now I have to wait until 4.2 for a usuable version." | Jun 17 17:12 |
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| Eruaran | Anonymously :P | Jun 17 17:12 |
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| PetoKraus | ? | Jun 17 17:12 |
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| schestowitz | Whose blog? By the way, post a reply to ACT too. They called me Mr. Angry yesterday. | Jun 17 17:13 |
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| Eruaran | http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.c... | Jun 17 17:13 |
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| Eruaran | I don't think it shows up yet | Jun 17 17:14 |
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| moparx | nope | Jun 17 17:14 |
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| PetoKraus | the only thing which kind of stops me from trying out KDE4 is, that I am using gentoo | Jun 17 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | I hate Blogspot. I gave up almost when Glyn's Blogspot alerts ended up in GMail SPAM (yes, Google cans Google!). The captcha also takes longer to do than to write a comment. | Jun 17 17:15 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | Roy - did you see this, btw? http://www.telco2.net/blog/2007/09/ I've just posted a few words about it in cola in response to the erroneous claim regarding proprietary platforms which has been made about someone at BT whole stole my name :-) | Jun 17 17:15 |
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| PetoKraus | and i don't wanna compile it 4 days | Jun 17 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | mark_antony_ken1, I'll take a look at the moment. I can't have Firefox and KNode in RAM at the same time with a 220,000-message index in RAM (512 MB). | Jun 17 17:16 |
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| Eruaran | ah, "Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author." | Jun 17 17:16 |
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| PetoKraus | Eruaran: nice. | Jun 17 17:16 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | schestowitz: no worries. It actually quotes quite heavily, more than I'd realised... | Jun 17 17:17 |
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| moparx | switch to slrn :p | Jun 17 17:22 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | moparx: I use slrn... I'm also a bit confused... | Jun 17 17:23 |
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| moparx | :) | Jun 17 17:23 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | ah - you mean roy ... hehe sorry | Jun 17 17:23 |
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| moparx | ya | Jun 17 17:23 |
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| moparx | hehe | Jun 17 17:23 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | ah, I've gone again | Jun 17 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | You're like a zombie with bits of you falling off. Somewhat like a snake. And those old bits 'dissolve'. :-) | Jun 17 17:25 |
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| moparx | haha | Jun 17 17:25 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | hehe - I'm shedding nyms :-) | Jun 17 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | Well, you later pick them up again. It's a cycle of life. There's 1st and second-gen Mark. Then there's 3G where the # is omitted. | Jun 17 17:26 |
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| mark_antony_ken1 | schestowitz: I'll look out for the 3G /me | Jun 17 17:27 |
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| *schestowitz still in Generation Zero with PCs that can have Vista installed (for technical reasons alone). | Jun 17 17:31 |
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| schestowitz | <mark_antony_ken1>, I've just looked at that blog you linked to ( http://www.telco2.net/blog/2007/09/ ). The trolls are better off ignored. They made libellous and defamatory claims, so setting the record straight is pointless. Just look how much energy Rex Ballard is spending (in vain) trying to defend himself. | Jun 17 18:01 |
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| PetoKraus | firefox.com is down ;) | Jun 17 18:02 |
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| PetoKraus | i guess they are updating page for ffx 3 | Jun 17 18:02 |
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| schestowitz | Haha! That's excellent. More hype. | Jun 17 18:02 |
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| Eruaran | I got annoyed with FF today | Jun 17 18:02 |
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| Eruaran | On gnome | Jun 17 18:03 |
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| Eruaran | wanted to download a clip and it would play it but I didn't know how to just download it | Jun 17 18:03 |
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| schestowitz | Ubuntu.com always falls over when a new version is released. They can't scale well. But it's like a publicity stunt. Maybe. | Jun 17 18:03 |
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| Eruaran | so I just opened konqueror | Jun 17 18:03 |
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| Eruaran | click, download, done | Jun 17 18:04 |
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| Eruaran | bbl its bedtime | Jun 17 18:05 |
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| Eruaran | I'm rambling | Jun 17 18:05 |
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| PetoKraus | :) be | Jun 17 18:05 |
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| PetoKraus | *ye | Jun 17 18:05 |
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| schestowitz | Cya l8r | Jun 17 18:06 |
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| tessier_ | schestowitz: Clever publicity stunt. Intentionally under-provisioning and making it look like the demand is so huge you can't handle it. | Jun 17 19:11 |
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| tessier_ | Any sane distributor would just make everyone use bittorrent and serve it all off of one box. | Jun 17 19:11 |
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| PetoKraus | http://pk.gjhak.sk/.stor... | Jun 17 19:37 |
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| PetoKraus | spot the errors :P | Jun 17 19:37 |
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| [H]omer | Evening all | Jun 17 22:55 |
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| [H]omer | Anyone home? | Jun 17 22:55 |
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| tessier_ | Hi | Jun 17 22:55 |
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| [H]omer | Hello | Jun 17 22:55 |
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| [H]omer | I think I'm finally wearing the Ubuntu "noobs" down. Soon I'll have them all preaching the gospel of Tux, and quoting Stallman. | Jun 17 22:56 |
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| [H]omer | http://boycottnovell.com/2008... | Jun 17 22:56 |
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| [H]omer | I see the big Firefox campaign is in full swing | Jun 17 22:59 |
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