| _Doug | ASP.NET on Linux .. | Sep 23 20:58 |
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| _Doug | http://dev.mainsoft.com/Default.aspx?tabid=45 | Sep 23 20:58 |
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| schestowitz | cj seems to be somewhere in this territory. | Sep 23 20:58 |
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| schestowitz | Why even compete, eh? | Sep 23 20:58 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, answer please :) | Sep 23 20:58 |
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| benJIman | _Doug: I am quite aware of the state of mono, I do follow its development with interest. | Sep 23 20:58 |
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| schestowitz | Let's just merge Microsoft and SUSE, right? Marry the two for pargmatism. | Sep 23 20:58 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, a real answer, not fud | Sep 23 20:58 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, is it wrong to use the right tool to do a job? | Sep 23 20:59 |
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| schestowitz | Because it's all about tools. Forget the philosophy. Let it rot in the side. | Sep 23 20:59 |
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| *benJIman wonders when schestowitz will learn to spell pragmatism. | Sep 23 20:59 |
| _Doug | benJIman: Personally I would try and keep up with the latest distros. Like I have Windows and Suse and Ubuntu at work .. | Sep 23 20:59 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: andwer what/ | Sep 23 20:59 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: answer what? | Sep 23 20:59 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, is it wrong to use the right tool to do a job? | Sep 23 20:59 |
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| benJIman | _Doug: It is not applicable for my job at the moment. | Sep 23 20:59 |
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| _Doug | And Mandriva and Yoper .. | Sep 23 20:59 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: we're trying to accomplish something. | Sep 23 21:00 |
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| _Doug | Applicaple, are you a real techie or what ? | Sep 23 21:00 |
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| schestowitz | Had RMS, for example, just used the 'best tool' where would SuSE be? | Sep 23 21:00 |
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| AlbertoP | the correct answer is yes or no, though, and you're skipping the topic | Sep 23 21:00 |
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| schestowitz | Anyhoo.. | Sep 23 21:00 |
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| twitter | It is always wrong to demand that others surrender their freedom to you. | Sep 23 21:01 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, we are discussing of the adoption in real world industrial applications, not in your PC, where of course the situation IS different | Sep 23 21:01 |
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| twitter | That is what's wrong with non free software. | Sep 23 21:01 |
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| _Doug | benJIman: so it's MONO on SuSE Linux only ... for you that is ? | Sep 23 21:01 |
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| AlbertoP | and yes, an OSS solution would be better, but in the meanwhile, would you prefer a windows only solution? | Sep 23 21:01 |
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| twitter | When you use it, you put yourself at risk for the kind of fuck around M$ dishes out. | Sep 23 21:01 |
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| schestowitz | You make no progress this way. | Sep 23 21:01 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, really? | Sep 23 21:01 |
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| benJIman | _Doug: I'm not sure what you mean by that, most of the development I do in my spare time is in java or suse-specific things like yast. | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | Watch WoW. Wine got it working, so no port... no code. | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| AlbertoP | are you so sure? | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | When you accept something with the flaws, you encourage no change. | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| AlbertoP | could you by chance remember what makes RHEL successful? | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| AlbertoP | and you know, it is considered the industrial standard for Linux... | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| _Doug | so it's MONO on SuSE Linux only with YaST .. | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | I guess we should also expect USPTO, which is run by shenanigans, to just 'wake up' some morning and 'decide' ti's broken. | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| twitter | Freedom makes GNU/Linux successful. | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | Why fight? Problems will fix themselves. | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| benJIman | _Doug: Mono has othing to do with either of those things, what are you talking about? | Sep 23 21:02 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, you're not answering | Sep 23 21:03 |
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| AlbertoP | just writing the usual sentences | Sep 23 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: Red Hat gives Free software. Companies put stuff on top of it. | Sep 23 21:03 |
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| _Doug | Have you no curiosity as to what the rest are doing, are you barred frm looking at other distros ? | Sep 23 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | It's down to the companies to embrace the Red Hat idealogy. | Sep 23 21:03 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, really? | Sep 23 21:03 |
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| benJIman | _Doug: I do follow the other distributions yes, I have several distributions installed in virtual machines. | Sep 23 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | As Whitehurst stressed about 4 months ago, it's time for corps to start giving back more. | Sep 23 21:03 |
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| AlbertoP | and isn't RH providing certifications of compatibility to half of the world of linux commercial apps? | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| AlbertoP | nooo | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| AlbertoP | so I don't see any difference | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| schestowitz | It does not produce these. | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| _Doug | virtual machines, yea, I know .. save the planet .. whatVM machine are you using ? | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| AlbertoP | ahh right | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| schestowitz | It gives a Free desktop/server | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| AlbertoP | RH didn't cooperate with IBM, eh no... | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| benJIman | _Doug: Virtualbox. | Sep 23 21:04 |
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| twitter | That's a nice free one, Benji. | Sep 23 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | It sells a product that's free. If the customers won't to bash it with a hammer, splendid! | Sep 23 21:05 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, so we should close all the non-OSS companies? | Sep 23 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | No, you can't. | Sep 23 21:05 |
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| twitter | They will close themselves. | Sep 23 21:05 |
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| AlbertoP | just because "it is so evil" to make money with software? | Sep 23 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | Ask Stallman for 'radical' opinions | Sep 23 21:05 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, no you're dreaming :) | Sep 23 21:05 |
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| twitter | Because it is evil to make non free software demands of your users. | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | In reality, you bring change by showing the way or protesting. You don't shoot. | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| twitter | NDAs are evil. | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| _Doug | benJIman: so get a Linux distro in the door at work, you are a true believe after all - YEA ? | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | Gandhi had no napalm. | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| cj | hmm? | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, actually the way is shown a lot more effectively from inside, as RH, Novell and other companies are doing | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| AlbertoP | the proof? | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | Og what? | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | Of what? | Sep 23 21:06 |
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| twitter | Novell is going under, what strength do they have to show? | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| AlbertoP | don't you think MS admitting Linux is a good platform is important? | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| benJIman | _Doug: Sure, when an opportunity presents itself. We do have some RHEL and SLES servers I believe, never seen them though. | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | The point I'm making is that you don't shoot companies that do blobs unless they shoot you. | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, under? | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| AlbertoP | Oo | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| _Doug | benJIman: can two apps running on two guest Oses communicate with one another, on the one box ? | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | That, for example, is why I hardly protest against Oracle as much as I protest against the Microsoft lobbies that now attack FOSS in the EU | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| twitter | yeah, Albert, running out of money. So is M$. | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, bring numbers please | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft actively works to suppress Free software. | Sep 23 21:07 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, what a discovery | Sep 23 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | And here you say that it's okay to just play nice with .NET and Windows. | Sep 23 21:08 |
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| benJIman | _Doug: I don't believe so at the moment. The networking is completely broken when running multiple virtualbox machines. If that were a problem for me I'd use something else. | Sep 23 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | Reciprocity or coexistence is better. | Sep 23 21:08 |
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| twitter | No one needs .net or windows. | Sep 23 21:08 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, lol | Sep 23 21:08 |
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| twitter | it is better to ignore these things. | Sep 23 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | Worked well for IBM, which the FOSS world is 'cool' with, despite IBM's all-proprietary protfolio. | Sep 23 21:08 |
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| AlbertoP | ok...I think I wasted too much time :) | Sep 23 21:08 |
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| cj | benJIman: what's mono missing for you? have you run moma on your assemblies? | Sep 23 21:09 |
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| cj | schestowitz: I seem to be somewhere in which territory? | Sep 23 21:09 |
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| twitter | any time Albert. | Sep 23 21:09 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, I still wait for numbers to prove N is going bankrupt ^^ | Sep 23 21:09 |
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| benJIman | cj: Mostly the (lol, )enterprise things. | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| twitter | Google search BN for it. | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| twitter | If you don't object to using free software too much .. | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: worried yet? | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| cj | benJIman: ah... uhm, MS released those under a MS-pl recently, so you can use that implementation | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| AlbertoP | oh no schestowitz | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| AlbertoP | :) | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | Why do you think Novell came to ballmer and Smith? | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| AlbertoP | I can live happy anyway | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| benJIman | cj: Not the application blocks. | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | Just some time after it had visited the bank, maybe for a load? | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| benJIman | cj: Application Server, integration with biztalk, mssql reporting services, and such. | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | lon? | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, hehe because it's business? | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| AlbertoP | :P | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | Agh.. loan. | Sep 23 21:10 |
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| twitter | If you don't need Novell, why serve them? | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| AlbertoP | but right...business is evil ^^ | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| cj | benJIman: ah. stuff with which I'm not familiar. have you talked to miguel about it? | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, because they work OK? | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| cj | benJIman: or sam? | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| benJIman | cj: The library support and compiler are very good now I agree. | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| trmanco | http://lists.compiz-fusion.org/pipermai... | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| twitter | no, it's not OK. | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| _Doug | A Linux zealot examines Microsoft Vista .. | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| _Doug | http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensourc... | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | Don't feed the beast with the hand that beat you. | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, oh you think so? | Sep 23 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | By embracing Microsoft's wares you give them power to go full EEE and ruin their #1 foe. | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| benJIman | cj: Who is sam? | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| _Doug | Miguel, you're on first names, well 'Linus' talks to me :] | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, could you explain? | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| twitter | Yes, it is wrong to serve those who actively work against your and other people's freedom. | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| schestowitz | I don't speak in exaggerative tone | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| schestowitz | See Microsoft's SEC filing. | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| cj | benJIman: http://port25.technet.com/archive/... | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| benJIman | _Doug: Miguel is his IRC nick. | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| twitter | I'd like to see that filing, anything interesting in it? | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| benJIman | cj: Ah yes I have heard of him. | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| schestowitz | If they can't stop or destory FOSS, they must be pushed to ZUne/XBox, i.e. massive losses all the way to bankruptcy. | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| cj | _Doug: heh, yes. miguel is his nick, and we're on a first name basis :) | Sep 23 21:12 |
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| _Doug | I know, I was just having a little joke, but I have had an email from Linus, really .. | Sep 23 21:13 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, my freedom does not depend on Novell and Microsoft | Sep 23 21:13 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: Let me get it | Sep 23 21:13 |
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| cj | _Doug: heh, he never replies to mine! | Sep 23 21:13 |
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| AlbertoP | or do you really believe that? | Sep 23 21:13 |
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| twitter | Novell and M$ are enemies of your freedom. When you use their software you surrender it to them. | Sep 23 21:13 |
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| schestowitz | http://www. microsoft.com/msft/SEC/default.mspx | Sep 23 21:13 |
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| _Doug | cj: what can I say, you is a ginga' ! | Sep 23 21:13 |
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| AlbertoP | you should stop reporting sentences written by others and think one minute...because those sentences were said in a context. Out of it, the mean nothing! | Sep 23 21:14 |
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| cj | ginga'? | Sep 23 21:14 |
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| schestowitz | "A prominent example of open source software is the Linux operating system...To the extent open source software gains increasing market acceptance, sales of our products may decline, we may have to reduce the prices we charge for our products, and revenue and operating margins may consequently decline. " | Sep 23 21:14 |
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| cj | AlbertoP: "M$" is a dead giveaway :) | Sep 23 21:14 |
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| AlbertoP | cj, hehe...it was saving Novell from bankrupt one minute ago LOL | Sep 23 21:14 |
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| cj | or MS could release the source to its kernel and then we'd have GNU/Windows :) | Sep 23 21:15 |
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| AlbertoP | anyway, I've to go | Sep 23 21:15 |
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| _Doug | an ALi G. term for a 'white boy' .. | Sep 23 21:15 |
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| benJIman | cj: I find their arguments much more convincing when they use names like "Sweaty Ballmer" too. | Sep 23 21:15 |
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| schestowitz | SweatyB | Sep 23 21:15 |
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| cj | benJIman: indeed. it inspires... trust! | Sep 23 21:15 |
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| schestowitz | Steart warping names. :-) It's not Sweaty Ballmer. Never been like that. | Sep 23 21:15 |
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| _Doug | Ali: Is he married to da ginga wiv dee big tits? | Sep 23 21:16 |
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| _Doug | http://www.boreme.com/boreme/fun... | Sep 23 21:16 |
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| _Doug | back in ten .. | Sep 23 21:17 |
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| schestowitz | Bring popcorn. | Sep 23 21:17 |
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| twitter | So, what's to see in all that ugly SEC stuff served poorly by IIS? | Sep 23 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | As Blankenhorn puts it, numbers that don't add up. | Sep 23 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2007 | Sep 23 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | "Ironically the $45 billion bet on Yahoo, partly funded by debt, comes just as Microsoft is finally starting to make good on its decade-old promise of earning money beyond Office and Windows." | Sep 23 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | "Has anyone succeeded in buying-out a sector of the technology industry and making the whole worth more than the sum of its parts?" | Sep 23 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | "But this is going to end as all tragedies must, with tears. Steve Ballmer is getting taken for the biggest ride of his life, and one day he’s going to find himself dumped out of the limo by the side of the road wondering what happened." | Sep 23 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | And just the other day Microsoft's board gave an OK to tolerating debt. | Sep 23 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | For those who are new to this: http://web.archive.org/web/20070308032343rn_2/www.seattl... | Sep 23 21:21 |
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| twitter | September 30th is right around the corner. We will see how they have done but I doubt it will be pretty, given all the buy back talk. | Sep 23 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | October 23rd | Sep 23 21:23 |
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| twitter | Oh, that's a little further off. | Sep 23 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | They announced the Webcast over the weekend or on Friday. I doubt they can cook the books so well at this stage. They failed twice in a row already... for the first time in ages. | Sep 23 21:24 |
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| twitter | Microsoft management offers the following guidance for the quarter ending September 30, 2008: Revenue is expected to be in the range of $14.7 billion to $14.9 billion ... blah blah blah | Sep 23 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | Well, they buy back stock. | Sep 23 21:25 |
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| schestowitz | They also buy more companies that actually have existing revenue (note: not necessarily profit) | Sep 23 21:25 |
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| twitter | From $60 billion to debt in what, three years? I can draw a line to where that goes. | Sep 23 21:26 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft grows itself too much (not integration), so it ends up overweight with too many employees, not much in savings (soon debt). Even what's-his-name... the RSS guy... he left them after he had seen what a mess it is from inside. | Sep 23 21:26 |
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| schestowitz | I'd have to find that post some time. | Sep 23 21:26 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: and the stock didn't move, despite the buybacks. | Sep 23 21:27 |
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| twitter | oh my, soon it will fall with the rest of them. | Sep 23 21:27 |
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| schestowitz | t has a plan B (not B for Ballmer) | Sep 23 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | "Intellectual property is the next software." -Nathan Myhrvold, Microsoft patent troll | Sep 23 21:29 |
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| schestowitz | Full statement here http://www.newsweek.com/id/55777/page/2 . That's why it's so important to fight the Novell patent deal and the likes of it. | Sep 23 21:29 |
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| zoobab | I need your help to debug this: | Sep 23 21:33 |
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| zoobab | http://stopsoftwarepatents.org/draft:petition3 | Sep 23 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | OK | Sep 23 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | Content or grammar/spelling? | Sep 23 21:34 |
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| zoobab | content | Sep 23 21:35 |
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| zoobab | I can tell you where it is attacked | Sep 23 21:35 |
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| zoobab | broadiness is hard to explain | Sep 23 21:36 |
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| zoobab | explanation 4 is definitely hard to explain | Sep 23 21:36 |
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| schestowitz | Okay, let me look. I'm locking it. | Sep 23 21:37 |
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| schestowitz | Short setences. | Sep 23 21:39 |
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| schestowitz | Short sentences. Intentional? | Sep 23 21:39 |
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| zoobab | yes | Sep 23 21:40 |
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| schestowitz | It's like a presentation. | Sep 23 21:40 |
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| zoobab | it is | Sep 23 21:40 |
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| schestowitz | Why notitimise it? | Sep 23 21:40 |
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| zoobab | it is aimed to convince | Sep 23 21:40 |
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| schestowitz | Okay. | Sep 23 21:40 |
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| zoobab | notitimise? | Sep 23 21:40 |
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| twitter | software patents are always broad because software is just a list of instructions. | Sep 23 21:40 |
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| twitter | patenting a list of instructions is patenting a business method. | Sep 23 21:41 |
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| zoobab | yes | Sep 23 21:41 |
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| twitter | or an idea | Sep 23 21:41 |
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| zoobab | it is like patenting "orders" | Sep 23 21:41 |
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| zoobab | patent people will say it is similar to patenting a process | Sep 23 21:42 |
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| schestowitz | notitimise = not itimise? (typo | Sep 23 21:42 |
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| twitter | patents are supposed to be for inventions, non obvious constructions, not discoveries or methods like putting things in alphabetical order. | Sep 23 21:42 |
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| schestowitz | itemise | Sep 23 21:42 |
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| schestowitz | Eveyrthing is a process. | Sep 23 21:43 |
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| schestowitz | Or a series of thought. | Sep 23 21:43 |
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| schestowitz | Zoobab, I'll find you a post. | Sep 23 21:43 |
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| zoobab | post? | Sep 23 21:43 |
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| zoobab | I like numbering points | Sep 23 21:43 |
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| zoobab | numbered | Sep 23 21:44 |
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| schestowitz | slated.org's right to own knowledge : http://slated.org/the_right_to_own_knowledge (it explains it clearly) | Sep 23 21:44 |
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| zoobab | but bullets are fine too | Sep 23 21:44 |
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| twitter | There's a difference between a physical process and how you order bits around on your computer. | Sep 23 21:44 |
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| zoobab | this is what the Red Dove is about | Sep 23 21:47 |
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| schestowitz | Punch cards... yours is too 'similar' to mine. | Sep 23 21:50 |
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| zoobab | :) | Sep 23 21:51 |
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| _Doug | the system is going down ........... | Sep 23 21:52 |
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| _Doug | .......... | Sep 23 21:52 |
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| _Doug | .... | Sep 23 21:52 |
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| _Doug | .. | Sep 23 21:52 |
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| _Doug | . | Sep 23 21:52 |
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| *_Doug has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Sep 23 21:52 |
| zoobab | the patent system is going down ...... | Sep 23 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | I don't understand why you put inventor in scare quotes but not troll. | Sep 23 21:53 |
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| zoobab | ah | Sep 23 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | IAM took the piss out of your (well, sort of) for using that word. | Sep 23 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | I think I suggested "so-called "patent trolls"" | Sep 23 21:54 |
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| zoobab | patent people | Sep 23 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | At least in the first appearance. | Sep 23 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | 'Collectors' | Sep 23 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | Some people collect stamps. | Sep 23 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | Some people collect ideas. | Sep 23 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | Some people attack people with guns. | Sep 23 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | Some people attack people with pieces of paper | Sep 23 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | Some people invent a typesetting solution. | Sep 23 21:55 |
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| schestowitz | And some people 'invest' a paging key. | Sep 23 21:55 |
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| schestowitz | invent | Sep 23 21:55 |
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| zoobab | Inventors in this context means patent attorneys | Sep 23 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Sep 23 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | I make this typo a lot though. I can't type inventor. | Sep 23 21:57 |
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| zoobab | can you close your lock? | Sep 23 21:57 |
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| schestowitz | Almost the same thing though. | Sep 23 21:57 |
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| zoobab | Large companies views positively the exclusion of competitors from the market. But they have to face negative effects of software patents, such as litigation costs and damages, potential product removal, and shift of ressources from the R&D (Research&Development) to the P&L (Patents&Litigation) department. | Sep 23 21:57 |
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| schestowitz | Wait, almost done. | Sep 23 21:57 |
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| zoobab | I would replace it by: | Sep 23 21:57 |
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| schestowitz | I get disracted by comments in BN | Sep 23 21:57 |
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| zoobab | Large companies views positively the exclusion of competitors from the market. But they have to face negative effects of software patents, such as litigation costs, damages, royalties, potential product removal, and shift of ressources from the R&D (Research&Development) to the P&L (Patents&Litigation) department. | Sep 23 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | Ok, I didn't finish, but you can see the diff. | Sep 23 21:58 |
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| zoobab | BN? | Sep 23 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | I unlocked the page | Sep 23 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | BoycottNovell | Sep 23 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | Lame site name, not my idea... | Sep 23 21:58 |
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| zoobab | I received the tshirts and the stickers today | Sep 23 21:59 |
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| zoobab | the stickers are not that perfect | Sep 23 21:59 |
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| schestowitz | LF gives t-shirts too now. | Sep 23 22:00 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS95... | Sep 23 22:00 |
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| zoobab | " keeps a collective legal defense fund" | Sep 23 22:01 |
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| schestowitz | Fun days of Freedom, eh? | Sep 23 22:01 |
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| schestowitz | They used to call them crazies, not they fight them by corrupting politicians. | Sep 23 22:02 |
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| schestowitz | There's some more ugly stuff today like ACTA and telecom. I might post some to BN, but it's OT. | Sep 23 22:02 |
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| zoobab | there is a talk about ACTA tomorrow in the dutch parliament | Sep 23 22:03 |
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| zoobab | I will try to schedule an AT command to dump it | Sep 23 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | Is it not you who coined the term "Soviet Internet"? | Sep 23 22:03 |
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| zoobab | it was me | Sep 23 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | It made the rounds. | Sep 23 22:03 |
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| zoobab | now you have the chinese version | Sep 23 22:03 |
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| zoobab | http://chineseinternet.wikidot.com/ | Sep 23 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | Is it blocked yet? | Sep 23 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | By the Wall? | Sep 23 22:04 |
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| zoobab | the wall is coming | Sep 23 22:04 |
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| schestowitz | take cova! http://www.zonaplayer.com/page/recensioni/scree... | Sep 23 22:04 |
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| zoobab | the wall will be there to protect you from unlawful content | Sep 23 22:04 |
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| zoobab | but I am sure most MEPs will be listed there | Sep 23 22:05 |
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| zoobab | and they will regret it | Sep 23 22:05 |
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| schestowitz | LOL "Sarkozy told us that it was possible to shutdown peer to peer websites. We can prevent those peer2peer websites to be accessible in France. They do it well in China." | Sep 23 22:05 |
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| schestowitz | Sarko and McCreevy... | Sep 23 22:05 |
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| zoobab | Sarko even wants to ban P2P software | Sep 23 22:06 |
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| zoobab | Jusqu'alors discret sur le sujet, Nicolas Sarkozy est lui aussi entré en piste en se déclarant prêt à €« chasser les logiciels €» de téléchargement qu'il juge illégaux et à se doter d'outils juridiques pour lutter contre les sites les exploitants. Tout un programme... Pour expliquer sa position, Nicolas Sarkozy évoque une concertation effectuée avec des €« représentants €» du monde de la musique - en particulier le président d'Universal Fr | Sep 23 22:06 |
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| schestowitz | "They do it well" | Sep 23 22:06 |
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| schestowitz | As in: "they do it bad"... like Ghetto slang. | Sep 23 22:06 |
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| schestowitz | Can p2p ban Sarko in Soviet Russia? | Sep 23 22:07 |
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| zoobab | it depends if they use Trusted Computing | Sep 23 22:07 |
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| zoobab | :-) | Sep 23 22:07 |
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| zoobab | but for sure the Soviet Internet made them mad | Sep 23 22:07 |
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| schestowitz | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080207... | Sep 23 22:08 |
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| schestowitz | "RIAA boss: Move copyright filtering from ISPs to users’ PCs" | Sep 23 22:08 |
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| zoobab | you can listen to the audio recordings of IMCO, it is fun | Sep 23 22:08 |
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| schestowitz | Thank goodness for GNU/Linux. That's what control is abouit. | Sep 23 22:08 |
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| zoobab | some MEPs wanted to make this kind of spyware mandatory in Internet users PCs | Sep 23 22:08 |
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| zoobab | installing such soft is more efficient | Sep 23 22:08 |
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| schestowitz | In Germany it is, no? | Sep 23 22:09 |
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| zoobab | installing such soft is more efficient then on the ISP alone | Sep 23 22:09 |
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| zoobab | they tried | Sep 23 22:09 |
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| schestowitz | Austria too seem to have had 'people' petition for it. Spyware and back doors... as standard. | Sep 23 22:09 |
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| zoobab | the Federal Trjan | Sep 23 22:09 |
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| schestowitz | Because of "terrorism" and "think about the children"... | Sep 23 22:09 |
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| schestowitz | This one in the news today: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/23/mal... | Sep 23 22:09 |
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| schestowitz | Jail for two years! "He's one of three "dissidents" arrested in what the opposition called "a sign of panic by the embattled administration of Abdullah Badawi". The trio of detainees is made up by blogger Syed Azidi Syed Aziz and Chinese-language journalist Tan Hoon Cheng." | Sep 23 22:10 |
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| schestowitz | In Russia it's the police that 'took down' a blogger 3 weeks ago. Beware the MS 'police' (BSA). | Sep 23 22:11 |
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| zoobab | Pedo-pron is being used by the content mafia: | Sep 23 22:11 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I know. | Sep 23 22:11 |
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| schestowitz | http://antitrust.slated.org/media-defender/index.html | Sep 23 22:11 |
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| zoobab | Pedopornography, for | Sep 23 22:11 |
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| zoobab | instance, will be allowed (no restriction on end user) and only the | Sep 23 22:11 |
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| zoobab | judicial judge after a while would be authorized to prosecute the end | Sep 23 22:11 |
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| zoobab | user. TRAUTMANN oral amendment is only replicating the same consequences. | Sep 23 22:11 |
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| zoobab | http://www.odebi.org/new2/?p=489&langswitch_lang=en | Sep 23 22:12 |
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| zoobab | You have to see this video: | Sep 23 22:12 |
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| zoobab | http://netzpolitik.org/2008/live-... | Sep 23 22:13 |
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| zoobab | 13:13 | Sep 23 22:14 |
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| zoobab | Toubon is too much | Sep 23 22:14 |
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| zoobab | I was on the back of the room | Sep 23 22:14 |
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| zoobab | laughing for 15 minutes non-stop | Sep 23 22:14 |
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| zoobab | I was unable to stop | Sep 23 22:14 |
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| schestowitz | German | Sep 23 22:15 |
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| schestowitz | You speak German? | Sep 23 22:15 |
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| zoobab | nein | Sep 23 22:15 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, Geeko could translate for you ^_^ | Sep 23 22:15 |
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| schestowitz | Is this the right vid? | Sep 23 22:15 |
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| zoobab | but I understand it a bit with my dutch | Sep 23 22:15 |
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| *AlbertoP hopes Geeko is known :P | Sep 23 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Gecko? | Sep 23 22:16 |
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| schestowitz | Lizards? | Sep 23 22:16 |
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| AlbertoP | Geeko is the suse mascotte | Sep 23 22:17 |
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| AlbertoP | the chameleon :) | Sep 23 22:17 |
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| AlbertoP | and remember...it's the chameleon who eat the butterfly, not the opposite ;-) | Sep 23 22:19 |
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| schestowitz | What about Steevo? | Sep 23 22:19 |
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| schestowitz | It eats everything. Did you see that tongue? | Sep 23 22:19 |
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| AlbertoP | hum? Ballmer? | Sep 23 22:19 |
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| AlbertoP | you found the wrong guy, if you expect I throw shit at MS as a whole :) | Sep 23 22:20 |
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| *trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)") | Sep 23 22:20 |
| AlbertoP | I disagree with a lot of what they do, but that's another story | Sep 23 22:20 |
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| schestowitz | It's the easiest place from which to gain market. | Sep 23 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | For Novell too. | Sep 23 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | Although Novell does not seem intrested. | Sep 23 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | It hooked up with Microsoft to eat some Red hat instead. | Sep 23 22:21 |
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| AlbertoP | hum? | Sep 23 22:21 |
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| AlbertoP | which space? | Sep 23 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | So now Geeko and Steevo are both pulling the tongue at the few that care about Free software. | Sep 23 22:22 |
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| AlbertoP | sorry, place | Sep 23 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | SUSE is just a Windows application now. Hyper-vell, remember? | Sep 23 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | "we agreed that SUSE would run as a guest under Windows..." (or something along those lines) | Sep 23 22:23 |
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| zoobab | Redhat just bought the company behind KVM for a lot of dollars | Sep 23 22:24 |
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| AlbertoP | nah, Novell is just being pragmatic (which means "base on facts"). They know MS is a reality, that a lot of people depend on it, and they try to work with it.It has nothing to do with being against OSS. | Sep 23 22:24 |
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| schestowitz | Financially pragmatic maybe... better become a slave than die. | Sep 23 22:24 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, the agreement includes also the opposite direction: windows running as a guest on SLE | Sep 23 22:25 |
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| schestowitz | Wasn't that the same with Corel at the time. And Robbins (Gentoo) | Sep 23 22:25 |
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| AlbertoP | Novell has been selling XEN drivers for quite a bit €¬€¬ | Sep 23 22:25 |
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| zoobab | "Free software developers see their software becoming non-free with the collection of royalties." | Sep 23 22:25 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: not quite. | Sep 23 22:25 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the arrangement. | Sep 23 22:25 |
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| zoobab | going to sleep | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: that too. | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | gn | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, hum? | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| AlbertoP | link? | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | Later. | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| AlbertoP | ah right ^^ | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | Let me finish in USENET. | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | Pleas.e | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| AlbertoP | ok | Sep 23 22:26 |
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| zoobab | I have to wake up a bit ealry tomorrow | Sep 23 22:27 |
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| AlbertoP | however the link is here: http://www.novell.com/products/vmdriverpack/ | Sep 23 22:29 |
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| AlbertoP | and SLE offers the driver :P | Sep 23 22:29 |
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| zoobab | http://www.odebi.org/new2/?p=489&langswitch_lang=en | Sep 23 22:30 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: it's about how they serve 'solutions' | Sep 23 22:31 |
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| schestowitz | I'll find the links later. | Sep 23 22:31 |
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| schestowitz | See the PR about Dell OEMing Hyper-Vell in the mean time. | Sep 23 22:32 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, don't you think it's the customer to decide that? | Sep 23 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | No. | Sep 23 22:32 |
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| AlbertoP | Oo | Sep 23 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | Like a customer can buy a PC with FreeDOS. | Sep 23 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | People are laxy | Sep 23 22:32 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, we are speaking of big companies as customers. | Sep 23 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, we do. | Sep 23 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | They can happily use Red Hat. | Sep 23 22:33 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe to pay vmware? | Sep 23 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | No, to have Smith and the pals knocking on the door dem anding royalties "like Novell" | Sep 23 22:34 |
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| AlbertoP | and to virtualize windows on it anyway, because they need it, useless to say the contrary | Sep 23 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | “People that use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual property, in a sense have an obligation to compensate us.”-- Steve Ballmer | Sep 23 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | Citing Novell as an example | Sep 23 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | .Novell stepped up... blah blah... | Sep 23 22:34 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe that's something I don't care about | Sep 23 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | "We believe every Linux customer basically has an undisclosed balance-sheet liability." | Sep 23 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | That's right, you don't want to. | Sep 23 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | Tell this to people who suffer racketeering for using GNU/Linux. That happend already. | Sep 23 22:35 |
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| AlbertoP | the facts say managing suse is a lot easier than managing RH, that's what count...the rest is philosophy, which should be kept out when you evaluate a product | Sep 23 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | The media doesn't cover it as if there's some DNA in all those rackets. | Sep 23 22:35 |
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| AlbertoP | racketeering? | Sep 23 22:35 |
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| AlbertoP | proofs? | Sep 23 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: That Novell doesn't give a s* abouy freedom you needn't remind me. | Sep 23 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | Search BN. I have many example. | Sep 23 22:36 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, hehe well, you have a bit of confusion. I'm not novell ^^ | Sep 23 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft says so. | Sep 23 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | Said. | Sep 23 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | I know,but you're her defending them. | Sep 23 22:36 |
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| AlbertoP | I just try to explain you how a decision is taken when you select a software in a productive environment. You look at costs and quality | Sep 23 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | Novell sells solutions and advice. | Sep 23 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | Hovsepsian said what he said about his 'arrangement' with ballmer. | Sep 23 22:38 |
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| AlbertoP | again, that's business | Sep 23 22:38 |
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| AlbertoP | and frankly N is making a lot more for linux with all the support to projects than a lot of other people | Sep 23 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | How do you know | Sep 23 22:39 |
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| AlbertoP | how? | Sep 23 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Sep 23 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | Do you know that the SEC paid Novell a visit? | Sep 23 22:40 |
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| AlbertoP | count the full time N employee working on open apps | Sep 23 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | Do you consider infusions from Microsoft 'business'? | Sep 23 22:40 |
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| *mib_n2u95d55 has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Sep 23 22:40 |
| schestowitz | I do... as much as I consider the US giving Iraq/Iran weapons to kill one another. | Sep 23 22:40 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, do you know the meaning of what you write? because you use EMPTY words | Sep 23 22:40 |
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| AlbertoP | infusions? | Sep 23 22:40 |
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| AlbertoP | in what? | Sep 23 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is fuelling Red Hat/Novell Linux wars... where only Mcirosoft IP is the winner. | Sep 23 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | IBM tried that too. | Sep 23 22:41 |
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| AlbertoP | hum and do you see this huge N/RH war somewhere? | Sep 23 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | But for other reasons... to prevent price-fixing AFAIK | Sep 23 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Ye | Sep 23 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Sep 23 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Not just me. | Sep 23 22:41 |
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| AlbertoP | it's market competition, but behind the scenes they cooperate to the same OSS projects ^^ | Sep 23 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | See GL, SJVN... anywhere that know the stuff. | Sep 23 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | *knows | Sep 23 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Fine, but you must understand how FOSS fits into this. | Sep 23 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is not FOSS | Sep 23 22:42 |
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| AlbertoP | ah right, no.... | Sep 23 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is a proprietary s/w Micfrosoft partner... with a portion of FOSS... small portion... like BMC | Sep 23 22:42 |
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| AlbertoP | how many kde developers are paid by Novell? | Sep 23 22:42 |
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| AlbertoP | how many gnome developers? | Sep 23 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | B add examples... | Sep 23 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | Doesn't matter. | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| AlbertoP | ah right | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| AlbertoP | LOL | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | Novell needs them. | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| AlbertoP | needs? | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | It uses the code | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | It doesn't mean the trimuph of freedom is a goal. | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| AlbertoP | Novell could use the code without giving one cent back, for your information | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | The FSFG too stresses that corps don't seek a goal other than money. | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| AlbertoP | they could kill opensuse, ignore the community, just being really "closed" | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | That's a conflicting and antithetical route. | Sep 23 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | WOn't work, AlbertoP | Sep 23 22:44 |
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| AlbertoP | are you sure? | Sep 23 22:44 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, companies want $$. They must, 'cause of investors. | Sep 23 22:44 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is different because of legacy. | Sep 23 22:44 |
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| AlbertoP | and so? | Sep 23 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | brb | Sep 23 22:45 |
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| AlbertoP | isn't RH profitable? | Sep 23 22:45 |
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| *schestowitz back | Sep 23 22:47 |
| schestowitz | I don't know or care. | Sep 23 22:47 |
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| AlbertoP | well, it is the first and only company being profitable thanks to linux ^^ | Sep 23 22:48 |
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| *AlbertoP appears again | Sep 23 23:51 |
| twitter | IBM, Google and many other honest companies are also making lots of money with free software. | Sep 23 23:57 |
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| MinceR | google is hardly honest | Sep 23 23:58 |
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| MinceR | they do some good things and some evil things | Sep 23 23:58 |
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| twitter | says the Mincer? | Sep 23 23:58 |
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| MinceR | yes, i said so | Sep 23 23:58 |
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| twitter | like what, besides cooperating with China? | Sep 23 23:58 |
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| twitter | Shaking up M$? | Sep 23 23:59 |
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| twitter | Ha ha. | Sep 23 23:59 |
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| twitter | Sweaty B is going to throw a chair. | Sep 23 23:59 |
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