| MinceR | like collecting data on their users and either refusing to anonymize it or using ineffective measures to do so | Sep 24 00:00 |
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| MinceR | and caring little about supporting platforms other than windows | Sep 24 00:00 |
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| MinceR | and assisting in the arrest of people who dare speak against their oppressive governments | Sep 24 00:01 |
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| MinceR | not only in china | Sep 24 00:01 |
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| twitter | The first and second are debatable. The third is evil. | Sep 24 00:03 |
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| twitter | Not that the first and second are not evil, the extent to which they are true is debatable. | Sep 24 00:04 |
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| twitter | M$ shows "muscle" http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/09/22/microso... | Sep 24 00:04 |
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| MinceR | also, being all too willing to pull videos from youtube | Sep 24 00:04 |
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| twitter | Going into debt is strong now. | Sep 24 00:04 |
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| MinceR | which resulted in a long hiatus for a video blog i keep track of | Sep 24 00:05 |
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| twitter | "The software maker said it has established a $2 .0 billion commercial paper program. It intends to use the proceeds from any debt financings for general corporate purposes, including funding for working capital and the stock repurchases." | Sep 24 00:05 |
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| twitter | ha ha | Sep 24 00:05 |
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| twitter | Youtube problems come from being in the US. They are not funny. | Sep 24 00:05 |
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| MinceR | no, they were doing things the dmca doesn't mandate | Sep 24 00:06 |
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| twitter | Cite? | Sep 24 00:06 |
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| twitter | and not some Wintel FUD. | Sep 24 00:06 |
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| *tommyd has quit () | Sep 24 00:08 |
| MinceR | http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/... | Sep 24 00:09 |
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| twitter | Here's something current, Google fighting ACTA. The software maker said it has established a $2 .0 billion commercial paper program. It intends to use the proceeds from any debt financings for general corporate purposes, including funding for working capital and the stock repurchases. | Sep 24 00:09 |
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| twitter | grrr. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid... | Sep 24 00:09 |
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| MinceR | yes, that's part of why i said they also do some good things | Sep 24 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | H-P starts buybacks too. | Sep 24 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | 24,000 layoffs. | Sep 24 00:11 |
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| twitter | I don't know what the UK demands about videos. Google and others also have to censor Nazi crap in France and other places. | Sep 24 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | Rumours just came up about them killing Voodoo. Oh noes. | Sep 24 00:11 |
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| twitter | HP is laying off 24,000 and buying stock instead? | Sep 24 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | Both | Sep 24 00:11 |
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| MinceR | (hungarian) http://rosszpcjatekok.blog.hu/2008/07/0... | Sep 24 00:11 |
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| twitter | instead of paying their employees. | Sep 24 00:11 |
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| MinceR | even if someone would argue that they had to delete all his videos, they didn't have to delete his account | Sep 24 00:12 |
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| MinceR | yet they did | Sep 24 00:12 |
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| schestowitz | What was on it? | Sep 24 00:12 |
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| twitter | So much for the HP that would institute across the board pay cuts, they fire tens of thousands. That blows like the ghost of Carly Fionna. | Sep 24 00:12 |
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| MinceR | that /. article doesn't say anything about pressure from the state which leads me to believe that there was no legal reason to ban gun-related videos. | Sep 24 00:13 |
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| MinceR | schestowitz: it was a series of videos demonstrating really bad games in a funny way | Sep 24 00:13 |
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| twitter | If that were true, they would be banned here too. | Sep 24 00:13 |
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| MinceR | a bit like AVGN, except pc games and more recent ones | Sep 24 00:13 |
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| MinceR | and a different style. | Sep 24 00:13 |
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| AlbertoP | MinceR, if you violate the law of the specific country, google can only comply...they can't say "no" against a law. | Sep 24 00:13 |
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| AlbertoP | and btw, they can close the account, you accept that when you open the account | Sep 24 00:14 |
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| MinceR | they can. they can probably delete any video they want, regardless of the dmca because of the agreement | Sep 24 00:15 |
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| MinceR | that doesn't mean that it's right to do so | Sep 24 00:15 |
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| MinceR | look what m$ does legally | Sep 24 00:15 |
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| schestowitz | telecom package due tomorrow. | Sep 24 00:15 |
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| MinceR | look at what hitler did legally | Sep 24 00:15 |
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| twitter | At some point, it's only right to leave the country in question. | Sep 24 00:15 |
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| schestowitz | I'm writing about it ATM | Sep 24 00:15 |
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| AlbertoP | if the video violates a law, they should block the user who put it on imho | Sep 24 00:15 |
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| MinceR | law doesn't enforce morals and can't do so -- the existence of law is self-serving | Sep 24 00:15 |
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| MinceR | it's merely a tool of oppression | Sep 24 00:16 |
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| AlbertoP | Oo | Sep 24 00:16 |
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| AlbertoP | are you anarchic? | Sep 24 00:16 |
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| MinceR | i am | Sep 24 00:16 |
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| MinceR | it's not really clear that the video violated any laws | Sep 24 00:16 |
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| MinceR | their use of soundtracks might well fit into fair use | Sep 24 00:17 |
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| twitter | Are there any M$ Partners that are doing well these days? | Sep 24 00:17 |
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| twitter | IBM, Google, Red Hat, Canonical and others are all doing well. | Sep 24 00:17 |
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| twitter | HP, Dell, etc are having problems. | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| MinceR | well, m$ is doing so badly they can't even finance all their ad campaigns | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| MinceR | i've become targeted by one executed by my university | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| AlbertoP | canonical doing good? where? | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| MinceR | (they should be killed with fire) | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| schestowitz | Canonical? | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| AlbertoP | I didn't see any balance stating so :) | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| MinceR | AlbertoP: supporting gnu/linux and ubuntu? | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| schestowitz | Red Hat is buying back shares. | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| MinceR | oh, that kind of doing good | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| MinceR | nvm | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| schestowitz | This relates to what I told AlbertoP before he had left. | Sep 24 00:18 |
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| twitter | ut oh. | Sep 24 00:19 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, ? | Sep 24 00:19 |
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| schestowitz | Canonical has a man's bank account. | Sep 24 00:19 |
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| twitter | I thought he broke even. | Sep 24 00:20 |
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| schestowitz | Red Hat is doing fine and the buybacks have gone on for quite some time. Microsoft and Novell want to screw them. | Sep 24 00:20 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: I doubt it very much. | Sep 24 00:20 |
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| AlbertoP | MinceR, twitter was speaking of dell and hp having problems... | Sep 24 00:20 |
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| MinceR | one more thing on youtube: they comply with "dmca" requests even when not done by the copyright holder: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2... | Sep 24 00:20 |
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| AlbertoP | what kind of problems if not financial? | Sep 24 00:20 |
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| MinceR | this is definitely not required by law. | Sep 24 00:20 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: in China they sell PCs for $98 | Sep 24 00:20 |
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| AlbertoP | who? | Sep 24 00:20 |
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| schestowitz | US PC industry is tomorrow's US steel industry. | Sep 24 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | Unless... they get their precious IP | Sep 24 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | Novell: IP, IP, IP peace of mind. | Sep 24 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft: what Ron said. | Sep 24 00:21 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, hehe well, all tech companies without IP are almost nothing...don't forget that | Sep 24 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | Nathan Myhrvold: "Intellectual property is the next software." | Sep 24 00:21 |
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| MinceR | the type of IP matters though | Sep 24 00:21 |
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| AlbertoP | do you think energy, chemical, biological and food companies don't care about IP? | Sep 24 00:21 |
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| MinceR | trademarks in their own mean nothing | Sep 24 00:22 |
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| MinceR | patents mean that they have patented some ideas they may or may not have thought of first | Sep 24 00:22 |
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| MinceR | copyright means that they at least have some implementation of their own | Sep 24 00:22 |
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| MinceR | big difference. | Sep 24 00:22 |
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| twitter | I thought Shuttleworth said he was close to break even if he did not say he was already there. | Sep 24 00:23 |
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| AlbertoP | IP is often just a way to protect you research investements, sometime it's abused, of course, but by itself it has nothing wrong | Sep 24 00:23 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: maybe with Netb00k Remix | Sep 24 00:24 |
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| MinceR | the bastards are crying "IP" all the way because copyright isn't working out for them anymore as everyone knows they can't implement anything worthwhile. | Sep 24 00:24 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Sep 24 00:24 |
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| MinceR | they want to profit from having vague ideas | Sep 24 00:24 |
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| MinceR | (patents) | Sep 24 00:24 |
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| schestowitz | They got inside whining about patents (Gates 1991) | Sep 24 00:24 |
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| twitter | They want to own the world, by force. | Sep 24 00:24 |
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| MinceR | but admitting that vague ideas they might not have thought of first is all they have would be a great loss of face. | Sep 24 00:25 |
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| schestowitz | Now they want Walls and Gates to protect a monopoly they created | Sep 24 00:25 |
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| twitter | It's a straight up tax. If you don't pay, you get treated like Iraq. | Sep 24 00:25 |
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| schestowitz | I hreby announce a new law | Sep 24 00:25 |
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| schestowitz | I own the PgDn idea because nobody else 'claimed' it. | Sep 24 00:25 |
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| MinceR | :) | Sep 24 00:25 |
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| AlbertoP | to be honest, I don't think the problem around IP is strictly connected to IT | Sep 24 00:25 |
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| schestowitz | Pay for for its use or see you in court... get a good lawyer... save up... it'll be long. | Sep 24 00:25 |
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| MinceR | it isn't | Sep 24 00:25 |
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| AlbertoP | there are other A LOT more sensitive fields, and no one pays attention to them | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| MinceR | but IT is where the disease shows the most | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| AlbertoP | oh no | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| MinceR | partly because normally the barrier to entry is so low | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| AlbertoP | don't believe that | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| schestowitz | Drugs and medicine. | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| AlbertoP | it appears to the public more | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| schestowitz | Death by patents./ | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| MinceR | and partly because assholes like m$ and crApple are dominating | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| twitter | That company in China that made MIPS chips got it's pants sued off. That's why we don't have $98 computers everywhere. | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| AlbertoP | but thre real business is elsewhere...and it is a lot lot bigger | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| MinceR | well you at least need to be able to manufacture chemicals to get into the medicine industry | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| MinceR | for the IT industry, all you need is a computer. | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| AlbertoP | no you don't MinceR | Sep 24 00:26 |
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| AlbertoP | and the real key point for the next decades will be energy | Sep 24 00:27 |
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| AlbertoP | who will have energy patents will rule | Sep 24 00:27 |
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| MinceR | another factor i see is that IT is one of the distribution channels of hollywood | Sep 24 00:28 |
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| schestowitz | "open source energy" some wacko talks about it ATM | Sep 24 00:28 |
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| MinceR | one that they can control less than other channels | Sep 24 00:28 |
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| AlbertoP | medicine is a complex field, you need to spend a lot in research and be safe...that's good business but it requires a lot of investments | Sep 24 00:28 |
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| AlbertoP | open source energy is bullshit | Sep 24 00:28 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: telecom package again. | Sep 24 00:28 |
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| twitter | Dell warning, http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire... | Sep 24 00:28 |
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| MinceR | AlbertoP: my point exactly. the barrier of entry is high. | Sep 24 00:28 |
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| schestowitz | Dell is Dedd | Sep 24 00:28 |
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| MinceR | IP law is partly about raising the barrier of entry | Sep 24 00:29 |
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| schestowitz | Broken CNN URL | Sep 24 00:29 |
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| MinceR | (a lot with minimal effort as long as the bastards get their way) | Sep 24 00:29 |
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| MinceR | well, got to sleep | Sep 24 00:30 |
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| MinceR | gn | Sep 24 00:30 |
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| schestowitz | gn | Sep 24 00:30 |
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| twitter | sorry, good night. | Sep 24 00:32 |
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| AlbertoP | n8 | Sep 24 00:32 |
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| twitter | September 16, 2008: 10:39 AM EST | Sep 24 00:33 |
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| twitter | cnnad_createAd ("654 903","http://ads.cnn.com/html.ng/site=cn...","200","220"); NEW YORK (Associated Press) - Shares of PC makers headed mostly lower Tuesday along with the broader market, after computer company Dell Inc. warned it is seeing weaker information technology demand around | Sep 24 00:33 |
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| twitter | AP shit. | Sep 24 00:33 |
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| *grompf (i=63e9f1b3@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ce4c2da70169dca2) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 24 00:35 |
| twitter | red hat, consistent growth and value http://finance.google.com/finance?q=N... | Sep 24 00:36 |
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| twitter | M$, flat for 10 years. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASD... | Sep 24 00:36 |
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| AlbertoP | lol | Sep 24 00:36 |
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| twitter | hp, some growth over the decade http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:HPQ | Sep 24 00:37 |
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| twitter | dell, kinda like M$ but worse http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ADELL | Sep 24 00:38 |
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| twitter | CompUSA, dead http://finance.google.com/finance?cid=14812297 | Sep 24 00:39 |
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| schestowitz | The stock don't tell the whole story. | Sep 24 00:40 |
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| schestowitz | *stocks | Sep 24 00:40 |
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| schestowitz | You need to bear in mind that it's all based only on the story they tell investors. | Sep 24 00:41 |
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| AlbertoP | you should look at the net profit to have a better insight | Sep 24 00:41 |
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| schestowitz | They can take a loss to please investors. | Sep 24 00:41 |
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| twitter | Over ten years, stocks tell a very good story. | Sep 24 00:49 |
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| AlbertoP | not really, because the stock value doesn't account for a lot of factors like reorganizations and such that might lead to a change in the value of the stock | Sep 24 00:50 |
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| twitter | I thought charts took splits and all that into account. | Sep 24 00:51 |
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| twitter | Sun should be doing better than this http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:JAVA | Sep 24 00:51 |
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| twitter | It's like M$ with a bigger bubble price | Sep 24 00:51 |
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| schestowitz | Sun is flying too close to the sun. | Sep 24 00:52 |
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| AlbertoP | keeping stocks price low might also be a strategy | Sep 24 00:52 |
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| twitter | I realize that stock prices ultimately reflect the collective opinion of technical idiots, but those idiots are also the customer. | Sep 24 00:52 |
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| AlbertoP | quite common among mid sized companies | Sep 24 00:52 |
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| AlbertoP | fyi: http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m... | Sep 24 00:53 |
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| AlbertoP | 2.6.27-rc1 kernels appear to corrupt the EEPROM/NVM of the 8086:294c | Sep 24 00:53 |
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| AlbertoP | ethernet device (ICH9 I think). After hacking the driver to ignore the | Sep 24 00:53 |
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| AlbertoP | bad CRC and MAC address I could view the EEPROM with ethtool and it was | Sep 24 00:53 |
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| AlbertoP | all 0xff. | Sep 24 00:53 |
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| schestowitz | Oops. | Sep 24 00:54 |
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| schestowitz | Big oops. | Sep 24 00:54 |
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| twitter | google, doing well while others languish. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AGOOG | Sep 24 00:54 |
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| *libervisco has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 24 00:55 |
| twitter | eh, I've got 2.6.26 | Sep 24 00:55 |
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| *libervisco (n=daniel@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 24 00:56 |
| twitter | Everyone's favorite dog, http://finance.google.co.uk/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ANOVL | Sep 24 00:58 |
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| twitter | ooowwwwwwwwwww! | Sep 24 00:58 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe | Sep 24 00:59 |
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| twitter | Apple, I hate their non free software and don't want their intel hardware but they are rocking http://finance.google.co.uk/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AAAPL | Sep 24 01:00 |
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| schestowitz | 52Wk Low: 2.49 ? | Sep 24 01:00 |
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| AlbertoP | no twitter | Sep 24 01:00 |
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| AlbertoP | they are a company in which you don't want to invest in... | Sep 24 01:01 |
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| AlbertoP | look at the stock history | Sep 24 01:01 |
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| AlbertoP | they went up quickly, and still didn't prove to stay there long enoug | Sep 24 01:01 |
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| AlbertoP | enough* | Sep 24 01:01 |
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| AlbertoP | it is a buy and sell stock if you expect it to go up furtherly, but not to keep | Sep 24 01:01 |
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| twitter | I just did and wished I'd have bought in in 2001 at $10. They have grown consistently to 180. | Sep 24 01:02 |
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| AlbertoP | they grew on what foundations? | Sep 24 01:02 |
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| AlbertoP | a consumer market that can be changed in months | Sep 24 01:02 |
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| AlbertoP | not really where I want to put my money | Sep 24 01:03 |
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| twitter | ipod, iphone, dominance of expensive laptops, solid desktops. They will probably crap out but the future is bright with M$ going away. | Sep 24 01:03 |
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| *grompf has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Sep 24 01:03 |
| schestowitz | It was beloe $5 | Sep 24 01:03 |
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| schestowitz | Just snatched a screenshot | Sep 24 01:03 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe MS is not going away | Sep 24 01:03 |
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| AlbertoP | that's the whole point | Sep 24 01:03 |
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| twitter | M$ is history. | Sep 24 01:04 |
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| AlbertoP | MS will adapt and change maybe, but it is going to play a huge role for a long time | Sep 24 01:04 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe history? replaced by what? | Sep 24 01:04 |
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| twitter | What's going to keep them around, their famous cash reserve? | Sep 24 01:04 |
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| AlbertoP | you judge on the short period | Sep 24 01:04 |
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| twitter | It's implosion time for those morons and it's been coming for more than a decade. | Sep 24 01:05 |
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| AlbertoP | MS had a similar problem years ago | Sep 24 01:05 |
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| twitter | They have never faced as much superior competition with so little to offer. | Sep 24 01:05 |
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| AlbertoP | the superior competition comes from one side, apple | Sep 24 01:06 |
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| twitter | GNU/Linux kicks their ass too. | Sep 24 01:06 |
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| AlbertoP | MS has the desktop market, which is the key...and apple can't compete on all the sectors of the desktop market | Sep 24 01:06 |
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| twitter | Companies like Google have ripped the web out of M$'s hands. | Sep 24 01:06 |
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| AlbertoP | linux kicks on the server side at an enterprise level | Sep 24 01:06 |
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| twitter | I've been using GNU/Linux desktops for 8 years now. | Sep 24 01:07 |
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| AlbertoP | but at the moment nothing offers a real desktop alternative with the same degree of versatility of Windows | Sep 24 01:07 |
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| twitter | bullshit | Sep 24 01:07 |
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| AlbertoP | oh really, what's your job? | Sep 24 01:08 |
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| *pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 24 01:08 |
| twitter | Windows is extremely limited. | Sep 24 01:08 |
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| AlbertoP | what's your job? | Sep 24 01:08 |
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| twitter | none of your business. | Sep 24 01:08 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe good | Sep 24 01:08 |
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| twitter | :) | Sep 24 01:08 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/23/... | Sep 24 01:09 |
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| AlbertoP | windows is not easy to replace in various fields | Sep 24 01:09 |
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| twitter | There are a few niche applications, but the serious ones can all be run in Wine. | Sep 24 01:09 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, and what should that mean? | Sep 24 01:09 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: think IBM. Microsoft can survive, potence won't. Watch Sun, SGI, Borland, Corel... | Sep 24 01:09 |
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| AlbertoP | niche twitter ? | Sep 24 01:10 |
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| AlbertoP | cite some | Sep 24 01:10 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, ? | Sep 24 01:10 |
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| AlbertoP | MS adapted to situations where SUN and IBM failed badly | Sep 24 01:11 |
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| twitter | 99% of the world's computer use can now be met with free software alone. Only a few legacy applications like AutoCAD (good only for razor thin architecture use now) are needed. | Sep 24 01:11 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, that's wrong, and I'll explain why | Sep 24 01:11 |
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| twitter | or need windows, and even they can run in wine. | Sep 24 01:11 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: Microsoft adapted to nothing. | Sep 24 01:12 |
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| AlbertoP | think to all the applications without any equivalent in linux: graphics, technical software, accountability applications, system control, scientific tools, school support tools and such. | Sep 24 01:12 |
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| schestowitz | With Office and Windows it still does the old thing. | Sep 24 01:12 |
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| twitter | Enlighten me. Most computer use is text editing, database access and web browsing. Free software does all of that better than Sweaty B can imagine. | Sep 24 01:12 |
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| schestowitz | Internet is a batter example... and thus far it failed. | Sep 24 01:13 |
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| schestowitz | I think it loses more billions on the Web than it does in Entertainment and Mobile. | Sep 24 01:13 |
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| twitter | There's a lot of inhouse cruft, but most of it can be moved overnight. | Sep 24 01:13 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, lol | Sep 24 01:13 |
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| twitter | Businesses with foresight put it all on web aps already. | Sep 24 01:14 |
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| AlbertoP | no really, it CAN'T be moved overnight | Sep 24 01:14 |
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| twitter | IBM is making good money doing it. | Sep 24 01:14 |
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| AlbertoP | you really have no idea of the costs of that | Sep 24 01:14 |
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| twitter | I have a very good idea of computer costs and inefficiencies from working in a couple of fortune 100 companies. | Sep 24 01:15 |
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| AlbertoP | it doesn't really seem so | Sep 24 01:15 |
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| twitter | The technical and clerical desktops there would have been better off with GNU/Linux. | Sep 24 01:15 |
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| AlbertoP | or you should know that for example it is not done overnight to port a control system or an accountability system...just to cite examples | Sep 24 01:15 |
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| AlbertoP | and this because there are strict requirements | Sep 24 01:15 |
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| twitter | Like Bruce Perens likes to say, GNU/Linux has lower TCO, the sooner you move the more you save. | Sep 24 01:16 |
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| pombat42 | Outlook and Exchange would probably be the biggest hurdles | Sep 24 01:16 |
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| twitter | No one really uses all the bells and whistles. You could replace them with Kolab and no one would know the difference | Sep 24 01:17 |
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| AlbertoP | ehh sure | Sep 24 01:17 |
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| twitter | M$ blew everyone off their palm pilots six years ago. No one cared. | Sep 24 01:17 |
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| AlbertoP | and with what should I replace the cad I use? or the process simulator I use? | Sep 24 01:18 |
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| twitter | They all had bigger fish to fry. | Sep 24 01:18 |
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| AlbertoP | or the software my government provides to pay taxes? | Sep 24 01:18 |
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| pombat42 | twitter:not a chance. | Sep 24 01:18 |
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| AlbertoP | with something I write in the night? | Sep 24 01:18 |
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| twitter | AutoCAD runs in Wine. | Sep 24 01:18 |
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| twitter | real process simulation is not done on Winblows. | Sep 24 01:18 |
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| schestowitz | Zarafa, pombat42 | Sep 24 01:19 |
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| AlbertoP | looool | Sep 24 01:19 |
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| schestowitz | GPLv3 just now. | Sep 24 01:19 |
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| pombat42 | a company who has spent the money to obtain legal Autocad licensing is not going to worry about another $100.00 for Windows | Sep 24 01:19 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, do you use autocad on wine? | Sep 24 01:19 |
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| AlbertoP | and do you do "real process" simulations? | Sep 24 01:19 |
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| twitter | Your government should supply you with a secure web app to pay taxes | Sep 24 01:19 |
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| AlbertoP | because I do all the day, and a lot of software is for windows, especially the data processing tools | Sep 24 01:20 |
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| pombat42 | i mail mine | Sep 24 01:20 |
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| twitter | I know people from the oil industry that know about real process simulations and I know about nuclear stuff. | Sep 24 01:20 |
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| *schestowitz thinks AlbertoP practices a job as a MS salesman | Sep 24 01:20 |
| AlbertoP | schestowitz, I'm a chemical engineer...so you can guess how related to MS I am | Sep 24 01:20 |
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| twitter | I've seen AutoCAD 14 on wine. Worked great, I use qcad. | Sep 24 01:20 |
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| schestowitz | Micrososft's CEO seems to love chemicals. | Sep 24 01:21 |
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| AlbertoP | seen right...try to use it for professional purposes | Sep 24 01:21 |
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| pombat42 | moving to Linux is a good idea, but it is not an overnight thing and Windows only applications have to be considered. | Sep 24 01:21 |
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| twitter | no drug humor for the sweaty B please. | Sep 24 01:21 |
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| AlbertoP | and btw, autocad is the last cad of this planet | Sep 24 01:21 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: so does he. | Sep 24 01:21 |
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| schestowitz | Enthusiasm on stage sells. | Sep 24 01:21 |
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| AlbertoP | pombat42, exactly | Sep 24 01:21 |
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| pombat42 | Dog and Pony shows always reel in the live ones | Sep 24 01:22 |
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| twitter | Friends use Solid Works. | Sep 24 01:22 |
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| pombat42 | Catia | Sep 24 01:22 |
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| AlbertoP | when you have something else to do other than thinking to how free and open is your system, you want to use the right tool for the right task...that's the point | Sep 24 01:22 |
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| twitter | People at MIT use the Athena system. It provides every kind of software you can have to any platform you might have. They laugh at Windows as a platform. | Sep 24 01:23 |
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| AlbertoP | and if one tool is windows only, well...the game is done...you buy everything for windows | Sep 24 01:23 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, have you ever been at MIT? | Sep 24 01:24 |
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| twitter | no | Sep 24 01:24 |
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| AlbertoP | because they use windows too you know? | Sep 24 01:24 |
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| twitter | no I don't know that. | Sep 24 01:24 |
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| pombat42 | MIT is using what works for them. That's a good thing. | Sep 24 01:24 |
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| AlbertoP | exactly | Sep 24 01:24 |
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| twitter | I read their paper from time to time. Windows does not work for anyone. | Sep 24 01:24 |
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| AlbertoP | there should be a MS partnership with some research group there | Sep 24 01:25 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, I'm the first to say I would not use windows everywhere. | Sep 24 01:25 |
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| twitter | going for a Winblows desktop because you want to run one application is stupid. | Sep 24 01:25 |
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| AlbertoP | ah really and what should you do? dual boot? | Sep 24 01:25 |
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| pombat42 | not when that application is the crux of your business | Sep 24 01:25 |
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| AlbertoP | or virtualize a technical software that uses 8 CPU and 8GB of ram for your job? | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| twitter | It would be easier to run Virtual box and share it out than it would be to keep an actual Winblows machine working. | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| AlbertoP | right ehh how it works good... | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| twitter | Works great. | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| AlbertoP | great right... | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| twitter | Unless you want to be a proud 1%er and run Vista | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| AlbertoP | time is a factor | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| pombat42 | It varies | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| twitter | Works great. | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| AlbertoP | no it doesn't | Sep 24 01:26 |
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| twitter | Better than it does on a real machine because you can rebuild it by copying a file. | Sep 24 01:27 |
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| AlbertoP | you don't want to waste resources in that way if you can | Sep 24 01:27 |
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| *ZiggyFish has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 24 01:27 |
| pombat42 | Adding an extra level just over complicates things | Sep 24 01:27 |
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| twitter | I've seen it, it works like native. | Sep 24 01:27 |
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| AlbertoP | virtualization is good for certain tasks, but not surely for this kind of highly demanding stuff | Sep 24 01:27 |
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| pombat42 | for some applications yes. so does wine | Sep 24 01:27 |
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| AlbertoP | and anyway, people should choose what does the job | Sep 24 01:28 |
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| twitter | Wine is better still than virtual box, but the point is that 99% of the world needs none of this expensive software you are talking about. | Sep 24 01:28 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe you're right | Sep 24 01:28 |
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| twitter | All they want is a text editor and a browser. Any GNU/Linux distribution will do. | Sep 24 01:29 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe no, all they want is a working PC, with a good and easy multimedia support, compatible with all online services, and with all the devices they buy at a store | Sep 24 01:29 |
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| twitter | Dealing with upkeeps and upgrades in non free land is a huge ass pain. | Sep 24 01:30 |
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| AlbertoP | right, because upgrading your distro is a pleasure | Sep 24 01:30 |
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| twitter | No company needs all that multimedia crap and GNU/Linux does most of it anyway. | Sep 24 01:30 |
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| AlbertoP | no company? | Sep 24 01:30 |
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| AlbertoP | are you that sure? | Sep 24 01:30 |
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| twitter | Well, yes upgrading Debian is easy. | Sep 24 01:30 |
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| AlbertoP | do you really think companies do not use multimedia? | Sep 24 01:31 |
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| AlbertoP | they don't use videoconferencing? audio? video? nooooo | Sep 24 01:31 |
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| twitter | no. | Sep 24 01:31 |
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| AlbertoP | lol | Sep 24 01:31 |
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| AlbertoP | well, we know two different worlds :) | Sep 24 01:32 |
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| twitter | The world I live in has a M$ with a network stack that sucks life. | Sep 24 01:32 |
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| AlbertoP | well I work in a mixed linux/windows environment by definition | Sep 24 01:32 |
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| AlbertoP | linux for crushing numbers machine, windows for the rest | Sep 24 01:33 |
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| twitter | what's the rest? | Sep 24 01:33 |
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| pombat42 | I'm in a mixed world as well. Windows, Linux, Sun | Sep 24 01:33 |
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| twitter | if you want graphs, you use gnuplot right? | Sep 24 01:33 |
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| AlbertoP | the rest is data processing and connection to instruments | Sep 24 01:33 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, you're joking? | Sep 24 01:33 |
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| twitter | no | Sep 24 01:33 |
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| AlbertoP | lol | Sep 24 01:34 |
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| AlbertoP | I use tecplot...and yes, it is not open | Sep 24 01:34 |
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| AlbertoP | but we use it | Sep 24 01:34 |
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| AlbertoP | and matlab | Sep 24 01:34 |
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| twitter | matlab is only useful because of it's huge community of users. All scientific software is like that. | Sep 24 01:35 |
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| AlbertoP | there are open alternatives, but not anytime as complete and easy to use | Sep 24 01:35 |
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| twitter | you can scrpt tecplot? | Sep 24 01:35 |
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| AlbertoP | matlab is good because you're sure about the quality | Sep 24 01:35 |
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| AlbertoP | yes you can script, and you can directly write a "reader" for your data | Sep 24 01:35 |
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| twitter | gasp, I fear for the quality of my free software, FUD. | Sep 24 01:35 |
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| AlbertoP | no no don't read what I didn't write | Sep 24 01:36 |
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| twitter | Winblows scripts leave me wanting. | Sep 24 01:36 |
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| AlbertoP | but when it comes to math, I don't want to use untested routines | Sep 24 01:36 |
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| AlbertoP | MathWorks does a great job with quality | Sep 24 01:36 |
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| twitter | so does the uptime, lack of virtual desktops and place keeping. | Sep 24 01:36 |
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| AlbertoP | their routines are reviewed and widely tested | Sep 24 01:36 |
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| AlbertoP | uptime is not a problem for those applications | Sep 24 01:37 |
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| twitter | you can test your routines regardless of what you write them in. | Sep 24 01:37 |
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| AlbertoP | hum? | Sep 24 01:37 |
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| twitter | I prefer to apt-get a tool that works. | Sep 24 01:37 |
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| AlbertoP | what does that mean? | Sep 24 01:37 |
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| twitter | FFT, go for FFTW | Sep 24 01:37 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe matlab is not exactly fft only ^^ | Sep 24 01:38 |
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| twitter | for every task there's a good C library these days. | Sep 24 01:38 |
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| AlbertoP | good? | Sep 24 01:38 |
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| AlbertoP | according to what? | Sep 24 01:38 |
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| twitter | Excellent. | Sep 24 01:38 |
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| AlbertoP | where can I see accuracy tests? | Sep 24 01:38 |
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| AlbertoP | matlab has them | Sep 24 01:38 |
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| twitter | If you know what you are doing you run them yourself. Most of these tools are extensively documented. | Sep 24 01:39 |
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| AlbertoP | and their price is really accessible for what they give | Sep 24 01:39 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, no you have no time to run them...you need something to trust and work with. That's the whole point | Sep 24 01:39 |
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| AlbertoP | btw, matlab is not really stealing money | Sep 24 01:39 |
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| twitter | Most source code comes with test routines. | Sep 24 01:39 |
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| AlbertoP | they produce for all platforms too... | Sep 24 01:40 |
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| twitter | I've been happier with free tools, thanks. | Sep 24 01:40 |
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| AlbertoP | not really performant though (java interface €¬€¬) | Sep 24 01:40 |
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| AlbertoP | that's a choice | Sep 24 01:40 |
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| AlbertoP | again, I choose what works...open or closed is a secondary factor | Sep 24 01:41 |
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| AlbertoP | for example, there is a good OSS simulation code for fluid dynamics | Sep 24 01:41 |
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| AlbertoP | openfoam | Sep 24 01:41 |
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| twitter | I've been using computers for more than 20 years. I don't want to sink more mindshare into tools that are not free because they all vanish in time. | Sep 24 01:42 |
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| AlbertoP | well and open tools don't vanish? | Sep 24 01:42 |
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| AlbertoP | we lost a huge amount of tools with the kde 2 -> kde 3 switch | Sep 24 01:42 |
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| twitter | Free software is immortal. Emacs from 1984 is like emacs today. | Sep 24 01:42 |
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| twitter | I did not notice much of that loss. | Sep 24 01:43 |
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| AlbertoP | the same happens regularly due to lack of maintainance with gtk apps, and it will happen with KDE 3 -> 4 | Sep 24 01:43 |
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| AlbertoP | well if you look at main apps you won't notice anything, but again, people need more than a nice browser and a client for emails | Sep 24 01:43 |
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| schestowitz | Matlab is junk | Sep 24 01:43 |
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| AlbertoP | really? | Sep 24 01:43 |
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| schestowitz | It runs on Red Hat too, but it crashes sometimes. | Sep 24 01:43 |
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| schestowitz | I had years of experience with it. | Sep 24 01:44 |
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| twitter | My GNU/Linux computing over the last 8 years has been more consistent than any non free sytem I've used. | Sep 24 01:44 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/fileexch... | Sep 24 01:44 |
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| twitter | ha ha. | Sep 24 01:44 |
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| schestowitz | It's also very closed. | Sep 24 01:44 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, do you know it is one of the few commercial tools accepted on the best scientific journals of math and physics? | Sep 24 01:44 |
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| twitter | I thought you had written a book about that. funny you think it sucks. | Sep 24 01:44 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, I know...I run it on my suse lappy ^^ | Sep 24 01:44 |
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| schestowitz | They wanted to hire me 2 years ago... 6-figure salary and all. | Sep 24 01:44 |
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| AlbertoP | very closed? LOOOOOL | Sep 24 01:45 |
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| AlbertoP | you buy it and have access to the routines €¬€¬ | Sep 24 01:45 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: all software sucks, Matlab included. | Sep 24 01:45 |
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| twitter | Like I said, matlab is good to know because it has a huge community of users. They could be using a free system and it would be better. | Sep 24 01:45 |
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| schestowitz | There's an article about it (software being bad. | Sep 24 01:45 |
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| schestowitz | Linux is solid (the kernel) | Sep 24 01:45 |
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| AlbertoP | lol | Sep 24 01:45 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe RTOSes are solid. | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| AlbertoP | ok | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| schestowitz | Solaris is solid | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| pombat42 | Schestowitz: Amen. All software does suck to some degree. We are humans after all. | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| twitter | Software that can be modified and shared improves. Non free software is sabotaged intentionally and vanishes. | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| schestowitz | pombat42: you'd expect more for the prize of MATLAB, would you not? | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| twitter | Solaris is OK. I don't like it's boot up. | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| schestowitz | Shall I shell out $700 to run my /OWN/ f* program? | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, what's matlab price? | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| schestowitz | I don't cknow | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| AlbertoP | 300 dollars per licence...come on | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| schestowitz | I used to know. | Sep 24 01:46 |
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| pombat42 | Personally I feel software in general is over priced. | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| AlbertoP | ah right, but you judge it | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| schestowitz | Per licence. Joy. | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| AlbertoP | so what? | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| schestowitz | Want another PC. Pay, pay, pay. | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| schestowitz | You rent the 'engine'.... to your own code. | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| twitter | want to fix something, go away! | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| AlbertoP | no you don't rent anything | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| schestowitz | That must be the feeling for those who develop for the MS stack. | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| twitter | of course it's rent. | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| AlbertoP | that's the price for an unlimited licence | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| pombat42 | considering development costs logically should be going down due to outsourcing to off shore companies | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, really you NEED to learn to collect information BEFORE judging | Sep 24 01:47 |
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| schestowitz | It's rent. | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| AlbertoP | or it's smoke | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| schestowitz | They have 'network' licence. | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| schestowitz | That's spyware too. | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| AlbertoP | no, you can choose | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| schestowitz | You're being watched, tracked and disabled. | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| twitter | unlimited but tied to a particular OS in a particular time and it can be terminated at any time for any reason. | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| AlbertoP | and btw, I'm a customer so I know! | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| schestowitz | You're treated like a pirate, much like those DRM shenanigans. | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| AlbertoP | nah not really | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| AlbertoP | their support cycle is very long | Sep 24 01:48 |
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| schestowitz | My colleague wanted to go to Octave because he was so pissed off getting kicked off for licence he /DOES/ have. | Sep 24 01:49 |
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| AlbertoP | and they are extremely professionale | Sep 24 01:49 |
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| twitter | how do they keep multiple users from running on GNU/Linux? | Sep 24 01:49 |
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| schestowitz | The program says 'sod off' when he needs to get work done. | Sep 24 01:49 |
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| AlbertoP | octave doesn't do one half of what matlab does....and it is a lot slower...we tested it | Sep 24 01:49 |
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| *jose (n=jose@adsl-233-225-26.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 24 01:49 |
| twitter | slow does not matter if you have 2 for the price of one. | Sep 24 01:49 |
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| schestowitz | So improve Octave | Sep 24 01:49 |
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| schestowitz | It's yours It's GPL. | Sep 24 01:49 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, why should I? | Sep 24 01:50 |
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| schestowitz | Kneel for Octave. :-) | Sep 24 01:50 |
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| schestowitz | I'm joking. | Sep 24 01:50 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, they don't prevent you from running multiple instances. The licence is not per cpu | Sep 24 01:50 |
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| schestowitz | I ran MATLAB in large clusters. | Sep 24 01:50 |
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| AlbertoP | when? | Sep 24 01:50 |
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| schestowitz | Could I do that with my own PCs? Oh no... not if I don't buy many licences. | Sep 24 01:50 |
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| twitter | it's pre seat, right? | Sep 24 01:50 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, per machine, yes | Sep 24 01:51 |
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| schestowitz | A plasma professor used to make this analogy of worrying about scaling experiments because of stupid licences rather than science. | Sep 24 01:51 |
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| AlbertoP | or per user, your choice | Sep 24 01:51 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, matlab was parallelized only recently ^^ | Sep 24 01:51 |
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| schestowitz | Let's not go into MATLAB being a resource pig | Sep 24 01:51 |
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| AlbertoP | aka last version :) | Sep 24 01:51 |
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| AlbertoP | at least in a usable way | Sep 24 01:52 |
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| AlbertoP | :) | Sep 24 01:52 |
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| twitter | neither are useful both have enforcement. | Sep 24 01:52 |
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| schestowitz | I used to be using an MPI library | Sep 24 01:52 |
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| AlbertoP | ok | Sep 24 01:52 |
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| *jose has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 24 01:52 |
| twitter | Software licensing sucks. | Sep 24 01:52 |
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| schestowitz | If I buy software it's mine. | Sep 24 01:52 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, if you work for a company or academia prices are a looooot lower for cumulative licences or packages. ^^ | Sep 24 01:52 |
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| schestowitz | It works for CDs, it works for a PC, do why not sofwtare? | Sep 24 01:53 |
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| twitter | That's just a tax on everyone else. | Sep 24 01:53 |
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| AlbertoP | no it's not schestowitz, and it doesn't work for cd's | Sep 24 01:53 |
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| schestowitz | The whole thing is organised in a way such that it benefits monopolies. | Sep 24 01:53 |
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| AlbertoP | the medium is yours, NOT the content | Sep 24 01:53 |
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| schestowitz | They set the rules to increase revenue. Some of it is akin to collusion where several companies organise the biz model. | Sep 24 01:53 |
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| AlbertoP | you can't play it in public places for example without paying rights | Sep 24 01:53 |
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| twitter | a copyright warrior. | Sep 24 01:53 |
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| schestowitz | AlbertoP: you tell me how it works now. | Sep 24 01:53 |
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| twitter | ugh | Sep 24 01:54 |
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| AlbertoP | no, just someone who knows how are things | Sep 24 01:54 |
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| schestowitz | I tell you not how thr broken systsem operates. | Sep 24 01:54 |
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| AlbertoP | :) | Sep 24 01:54 |
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| AlbertoP | lol | Sep 24 01:54 |
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| twitter | laws should follow morals, not the other way around. | Sep 24 01:54 |
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| schestowitz | Go ahead, Noveller. Defend software patents too. | Sep 24 01:54 |
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| AlbertoP | no laws should defend rights, not moral | Sep 24 01:54 |
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| pombat42 | so who determines what is moral and what is not? | Sep 24 01:55 |
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| twitter | morals always defend rights. | Sep 24 01:55 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, fyi I voted against them, as a lot of Novell people | Sep 24 01:55 |
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| twitter | You want the right to enslave | Sep 24 01:55 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe slow with words | Sep 24 01:55 |
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| AlbertoP | you give them improper meanings just to make concepts appear bigger...not the case | Sep 24 01:55 |
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| schestowitz | Patents are immoral | Sep 24 01:56 |
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| AlbertoP | you don't want licences? good...don't use commercial software | Sep 24 01:56 |
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| schestowitz | .Ask people in India who die with curable disease. | Sep 24 01:56 |
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| schestowitz | Because some people have the 'right' to 'own' rather than to help | Sep 24 01:56 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, I agree | Sep 24 01:57 |
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| pombat42 | So do I (Schestowitz) | Sep 24 01:57 |
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| AlbertoP | that has nothing to do with what we were talking about though ^^ | Sep 24 01:57 |
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| AlbertoP | licence is not about patents, it's about copyright btw...different things | Sep 24 01:57 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, and btw, it is nice of you to worry about indians. But who pays for pharmaceutical research? | Sep 24 01:58 |
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| schestowitz | That's beside the point. | Sep 24 01:58 |
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| AlbertoP | because it comes to this...people has to be paid for their job, and research in those fields have a huge cost...so... | Sep 24 01:59 |
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| schestowitz | The way a system should be established, especially where life is concerned, should be akin to the NHS. | Sep 24 01:59 |
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| AlbertoP | there is not enough public research unfortunately | Sep 24 01:59 |
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| schestowitz | Think about stem cell patents. | Sep 24 01:59 |
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| AlbertoP | oh I agree | Sep 24 01:59 |
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| twitter | There's been plenty of public research. Non free people steal it. | Sep 24 01:59 |
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| schestowitz | And think about establishment of a system that favours centralisation of aid to the ill. | Sep 24 01:59 |
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| AlbertoP | but tell people to pay one cent in taxes for research and they'll answer you it is USELESS | Sep 24 01:59 |
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| twitter | Look into Maxsyma the next time you use symbolic manipulation. | Sep 24 02:00 |
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| schestowitz | Privatising not only drug but also the ability to develop them is suicide... and homocide or genocide sometimes. | Sep 24 02:00 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, I work for those who created it indirectly ^_^ | Sep 24 02:00 |
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| twitter | created what? | Sep 24 02:00 |
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| schestowitz | Another issue is lack of sharing of medical research. | Sep 24 02:00 |
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| AlbertoP | <--- work in a uni, and the sponsor is DOE, where Maxima was created originally ^^ | Sep 24 02:00 |
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| schestowitz | I have heaps of recent refs for you. | Sep 24 02:00 |
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| schestowitz | REven the dug industry, esp. in the east, is strating to embrace open source (DBs and all...) | Sep 24 02:01 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, I know that...I'm in the research world, which is just another business | Sep 24 02:01 |
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| twitter | So, you know the sad story of it's privatization. | Sep 24 02:01 |
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| schestowitz | No, it's the same. | Sep 24 02:01 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, I know yes...Mathematica :) | Sep 24 02:01 |
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| schestowitz | You could share your knowledge in a pool. | Sep 24 02:01 |
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| schestowitz | Works fine for Red Hat, Intel, IBM and HP | Sep 24 02:01 |
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| AlbertoP | the knowledge is in a pool | Sep 24 02:01 |
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| schestowitz | It is not. | Sep 24 02:02 |
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| AlbertoP | the problem is that the pool has a high cost :\ | Sep 24 02:02 |
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| twitter | If you know the history of Maxima, you should know that people should just use free software. | Sep 24 02:02 |
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| AlbertoP | scientific journals are expensive | Sep 24 02:02 |
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| schestowitz | Does IBM hold Linux patents to use against Intel? | Sep 24 02:02 |
|---|
| schestowitz | scientific journals are obsolete | Sep 24 02:02 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It's another scheme | Sep 24 02:02 |
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| schestowitz | Academic pays loads of money for them and in turn they put money back into a closed system. | Sep 24 02:02 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, I can't agree in general. People should look if there is a free software that does the job before buying another one. That's true. But if there isn't, well...I don't get mad and use a commercial one. | Sep 24 02:03 |
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| schestowitz | It's a well-known fact that it's like a cycle of revenue. | Sep 24 02:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | It just puts barrier in the face of the curious poor. | Sep 24 02:03 |
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| AlbertoP | schestowitz, no really...scientific journals are necessary today more than ever | Sep 24 02:03 |
|---|
| schestowitz | Look up literature on OA (open access) | Sep 24 02:03 |
|---|
| AlbertoP | they are the only form of protection against shit | Sep 24 02:03 |
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| schestowitz | taxpayers fund research that are not even allowed to read. | Sep 24 02:03 |
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| AlbertoP | false | Sep 24 02:03 |
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| schestowitz | Some of it is to do with cancer, i.e. life and death. | Sep 24 02:04 |
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| twitter | no, that's true. | Sep 24 02:04 |
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| AlbertoP | taxpayers have access to ALL public libraries and can read what they want | Sep 24 02:04 |
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| AlbertoP | even university libraries | Sep 24 02:04 |
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| twitter | not all public libraries have the publications, even large university libraries. | Sep 24 02:04 |
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| schestowitz | Give them bus money. | Sep 24 02:04 |
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| schestowitz | And chicken skins. | Sep 24 02:04 |
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| twitter | It can take weeks to get journals through interlibrary loans. | Sep 24 02:05 |
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| twitter | Kind of like taking the bus | Sep 24 02:05 |
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| pombat42 | Put simply. Somewhere, somehow,some way, people have to be paid. What other incentive is there? | Sep 24 02:05 |
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| AlbertoP | twitter, all journals are online €¬€¬ | Sep 24 02:05 |
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| twitter | good luck to the public getting at them. | Sep 24 02:05 |
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| schestowitz | How do people get paid for development of Linux? | Sep 24 02:05 |
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| schestowitz | People make use of that knowledge and asset. | Sep 24 02:05 |
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| pombat42 | Many of them have day jobs | Sep 24 02:05 |
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| twitter | people make software work to get their job done. | Sep 24 02:05 |
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| twitter | non free software gets in the way of getting the job done. | Sep 24 02:06 |
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| pombat42 | People want their software to work so they can get their job done | Sep 24 02:06 |
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| AlbertoP | hehe exactly | Sep 24 02:06 |
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| pombat42 | Software is a tool nothing more. | Sep 24 02:06 |
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| twitter | My desktop is a figment of my imagination. | Sep 24 02:06 |
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| pombat42 | Vitual hey :) | Sep 24 02:06 |
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| pombat42 | virtual | Sep 24 02:06 |
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