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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 8th, 2008

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twitterYou are not kidding about the parting gift.  Around 10% will go to salaries, heavily weighted to bonuses.  Much of the remainder is being used for acquisitions that would violate trust laws under normal circumstances.  We fund and inherit nationalized banking.Nov 08 01:22
schestowitzIt's disgusting, but what can you do? Say no and they'll tag you a TERROR~1.Nov 08 01:23
schestowitzThe way I read it, RMS called for Obama to prosecute Bush for ware crimes too, but I didn't read it carefully.Nov 08 01:24
twitterI'm relatively sure that I'm already on the no fly list.  I can't check in early, I get pulled over for extra searches, etc, etc.  This was a problem once that delayed people traveling with me to a conference.Nov 08 01:31
twitterThese lists are pathetic.Nov 08 01:32
twitterIna Fried says, " Microsoft said on its server blog that the prebeta is available only to those at WinHEC or the TechEd EMEA conference, while everyone else will have to wait until the beta is released early next year."Nov 08 01:32
twitterI feel so left out.Nov 08 01:32
twitterboo hoo.Nov 08 01:32
schestowitzWhat's it about?Nov 08 01:34
schestowitzReports like this should be sacked. Microsoft plants them to serve as talking points and deceive. Ed Bott, Enderle, Microsoft Jack...Nov 08 01:35
twitterOh, that was the Windows 2008 server coverage by Ina Fried but it is common exclusion for those who will not do as they are told.Nov 08 01:39
twitterIt's the M$ way or the highway as far as M$ is concerned.  They would not just honestly sell things, they always have to exert control, make deals, that kind of thing.Nov 08 01:40
MinceRgnNov 08 01:43
schestowitzCNET needs to be buries. A lot of the same applies to other channels that are akin to commercials 24/7Nov 08 01:43
twitterBuying search customers, that's a plan Sweaty B must have had fun announcing to his investors.Nov 08 01:43
twitter"Like we will get people to buy things and then pay them so that we can get eyballs for advertisers who want to sell things."  Big long coke snort.Nov 08 01:44
twitterSome restrictions apply, "  Kok Waii Wong, Microsoft's group product manager for Live Search, announced the 25 percent eBay rebate on the blog. There are some conditions, though, including a $200 cashback limit and payment through PayPal only. It's offered only in the United States."Nov 08 01:44
twitterI can only imagine the barriers they will set up to keep from having to pay anything.Nov 08 01:45
schestowitzThey still SPAM Web sites.Nov 08 01:47
schestowitzMicrosoft has the mentality of selfish people who throw bottles out the truck's windowNov 08 01:47
schestowitzThey also trashes New York last year and were fined/forced to apologise.Nov 08 01:48
schestowitz*trashedNov 08 01:48
twitterI've seen some of that trashing a few years ago.  They were trying to advertise MSN, so they paid a lot of people to make noise in bee and butterfly costumes.  That's OK, I suppose, but they also littered everything up with sticker spam.  Hate sticker spam.Nov 08 01:51
twittergood nightNov 08 01:52
schestowitzYes, that's the incident.Nov 08 01:52
schestowitzRMS has just given talks in Spanish: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRyams00WeMNov 08 02:24
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tessierHis spanish is frightening.Nov 08 07:24
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schestowitzHow is it frightening?Nov 08 08:17
schestowitzhttp://technocrat.net/d/2... "For tech employees, jobs no longer come with a lifetime guarantee. Companies are shedding people in small numbers and keeping their actions under the radar. "Nov 08 08:20
schestowitzMore in http://technocrat.net/d/2008/11/7/53633Nov 08 08:21
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schestowitzhttp://vale.homelinux.net/wordpress/2008/11/0... "It got dugg by a person I know well, Groklaw has it in the newspicks, Schestowitz will have it in his news overview tomorrow - nevertheless, this story is so good I had to repeat it on my tiny blog."Nov 08 08:45
schestowitzPC maker -Micron- MPC files for chapter 11 bankruptcy: http://www.channelregister.co.u...Nov 08 11:00
schestowitzWhat does this say? (subs required) Openmoko launches Android handset : http://www.telecom.paper.nl/news/articl...Nov 08 11:02
schestowitzSun and Moto Icons no more .. http://www.economist.com/business/dis...Nov 08 11:10
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schestowitz"According to a report issued today by City and Guilds productivity in the UK is suffering as 5.3 million workers lose at least two and a half hours of work each week dealing with other people’s IT troubles.Nov 08 11:31
schestowitzThe report revealed that over half of companies rely on employees that happen to know how to use computers to sort out others’ problems, meaning that many end up doing over-time."Nov 08 11:31
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/new...Nov 08 11:32
schestowitzEven Linux bloggers seem to be echoing some ugly FUD these days. Net Applications is rubbish, but they keep citing it. http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2008... “Is this supposed to be some kind of unbiased sample? But wait, there’s more...The complexity of this problem is actually rather large. But I can tell you one thing: If you wereNov 08 12:02
schestowitz my graduate student and you came to me with this sampling strategy, I’d send you back to kindergarten. (If I had that power.) ”Nov 08 12:02
schestowitzHere is something to keep in mind: “Windows-powered personal computers account for more than 90% of unit sales,. Linux 4%, Gartner says.”  < http://ca.biz.yahoo.com/ibd/08... [expired]  >Nov 08 12:03
schestowitzGoogle Sued For $3 Billion Over AdSense < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/11/... >Nov 08 12:50
schestowitzMore of the same: Nortel Could Slash Workforce by 10% on Monday < http://www.pcworld.com/article/153510/no... >Nov 08 12:56
schestowitzApple just works?? "A pair of iPhone problems grabbed my attention this week. Let's jump right in. Error 0xE8000035 prevents iPhone connecting to iTunes" Bugs & Fixes: IPhone Connect Errors, Audiobook Crashes < http://www.pcworld.com/article/153... >Nov 08 12:59
MinceRgeekingsNov 08 13:25
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trmancoLOOOLNov 08 13:54
schestowitzWhat did you see?Nov 08 13:54
trmanco"It contains a wide range of bugfixes, and all users of the 2.6.27 kernelNov 08 13:55
trmancoseries are strongly encouraged to upgrade.  Very strongly.  Did INov 08 13:55
trmancomention that you all should upgrade?  Seriously, what are you waitingNov 08 13:55
trmancofor?  Running those old kernel trees prior to .27?  Are you crazy?  YouNov 08 13:55
trmancoreally want to run this one.  It's all shiny new and has that lovelyNov 08 13:55
trmanconew-kernel smell that we all know and love."Nov 08 13:55
trmancoI will give you the link to the email as soon as I find itNov 08 13:55
trmancoFound it -> http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&...Nov 08 13:56
_dougIs Boycott Novell just a wee bit biased?Nov 08 14:03
_doughttp://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2008/05/is...Nov 08 14:03
_doug"That's like asking is the Pope Catholic. "Nov 08 14:05
_doug:)Nov 08 14:05
_doug"Boycott Novell - A Bunch of Loons…"Nov 08 14:07
_doughttp://edropple.com/2008/09/04/boycott-nov...Nov 08 14:07
schestowitzIsn't Beebe a wee bit biased? http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2005/05/i...Nov 08 14:07
_doug"Boycott Novell’s Free Software Credibility List and me"Nov 08 14:08
_doughttp://brucebyfield.wordpress.com/...Nov 08 14:08
_dougBill Beebe: I care deeply about Linux and want to see it grow ..Nov 08 14:09
schestowitz*LOL* http://sconewsroundup.blogspot.com/Nov 08 14:09
_dougyet another fan who just wants Linux be better :)Nov 08 14:10
_doug"Huh? Boycott this Boycott Novell baloney"Nov 08 14:10
_doughttp://byrondennis.typepad.com/it_inves...Nov 08 14:10
_dougYou do seem to be popular lately .. all these people decide to give you a mentionNov 08 14:11
schestowitzYou have to look at /who/ protests.Nov 08 14:17
schestowitzRemember Byron?Nov 08 14:17
schestowitzRemember Groklaw's article about Linux as an IBM-HP conspiracy? :-)Nov 08 14:18
schestowitzThat came from him.Nov 08 14:18
schestowitzAlso check out what he said about ODF.Nov 08 14:18
schestowitzAs for Beebe, well... I suppose you know.Nov 08 14:18
_dougyea .. it's all just so much SPIN~1Nov 08 14:19
_doug"LG Electronics (LG) and Microsoft have announced the signing of Memorandum of Understanding (MoU)"Nov 08 14:19
_doughttp://www.computingsa.co.za/art...Nov 08 14:19
schestowitzMany of the rest are Novellers or SUSErs or Microsoft fans like Jack S***field.Nov 08 14:19
schestowitzMemorandum of CollusionNov 08 14:19
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/06/0...Nov 08 14:20
_dougMicrosoft patented embedded Linux devices .. :)Nov 08 14:21
_dougpatents are like retro-viruses, used as a vector to inject foreign DNA into a companyNov 08 14:22
_dougimpossible to remove .. your company owned for ever ...Nov 08 14:23
schestowitzSounds like OOXML.Nov 08 14:24
trmancohttp://es.appleweblog.com/wp-content/upl...Nov 08 14:24
_dougan 'obligate parasite' cannot lead an independent nonparasitic existence ..Nov 08 14:25
_dougconsidering the currrent downturn in the economy, it makes you wonder why companies still spend, on average  1/5 of their revenue on software licenses ?Nov 08 14:26
schestowitztrmanco: this picture misses some options.Nov 08 14:26
schestowitzThe simplistic view of the world: you have two choices... Obama or McCain, Mac or 'PC' (hey, isn't a Mac also a personal computer?)Nov 08 14:26
trmancowe can always add those optionsNov 08 14:27
schestowitz_doug: why? Corruption. They build a system that favours monopolies.Nov 08 14:27
_dougI asked a developer with a medical company why, and the answer was they had so much invested in Windows that it would be impossible to do business without MS ..Nov 08 14:27
schestowitz "According to the Center for Responsive Politics, more than 100 former FCC employees have also worked in the private sector. At least 50 percent of them have lobbied on issues related to telecom, communications, and broadcast at some point in their careers."Nov 08 14:28
schestowitz"Rivera is not currently registered as a lobbyist, but according to the Center for Responsive Politics, he lobbied for the Catholic Television Network in 2001." <http://news.cnet.com/8301-13739_3-10... >.Nov 08 14:28
_dougWhich begs the question as to how they allowed such a state to come about in the first place .. totally reliant on a third company, to do business ..Nov 08 14:28
schestowitzClosed source is good for tracking: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...Nov 08 14:29
schestowitzMicrosoft Windows: approves by Republicans and comrades. Spy-compatible...Nov 08 14:29
_dougGoogle Finance http://snipurl.com/58bs0Nov 08 14:36
_dougNicrosoft Finance http://snipurl.com/58bszNov 08 14:37
_dougA bit volatile  ...Nov 08 14:37
schestowitzMicrosoft buys its own stock though.Nov 08 14:38
schestowitzIt would have been in its teens a long time ago otherwise. Microsoft is left with less cash than Apple. Debt is near.Nov 08 14:38
schestowitzWhen Vista 7 turns out to be another problem and the cash runs out, maybe -- just maybe -- Ballmer will be ousted.Nov 08 14:39
_dougI don't see it in personal terms, Ballmer did a very good job of selling a mediocre product ..Nov 08 14:41
_dougIf he was running Apple, then the Mac would be everywhere ..Nov 08 14:42
_dougOf course stagnation rules the PC market. The only thing MS can do is bring out an even more bloated version ..Nov 08 14:43
schestowitzThe law is broken.Nov 08 14:43
schestowitzThe supervision is 'bought' (cronies). Microsoft just exploits it.Nov 08 14:44
_dougThe main effect of 'Windows everywhere' has been to disuade others from entering the market.Nov 08 14:44
_dougMS recognises the PC market is saturated, which is why they are moving to software-as-a-service and cloud computing.Nov 08 14:45
_dougOf course it is they who will own the tubes ...Nov 08 14:46
schestowitzNo, not so fastNov 08 14:46
schestowitzThey try to discourage options, I agree with you on that./Nov 08 14:46
schestowitzRealising that Linux can't go away, they already try to restrict choice to SUSE.Nov 08 14:46
_dougIt is with some astonishment that historians will look back at how a reseller of Seattles QDOS leveraged thenselves into owing it all .. with a little help from the lawyers .. :)Nov 08 14:47
schestowitzThe birth of tyrants with silver spoons in their mouths and an army of lobbyists.Nov 08 14:48
schestowitzhttp://philip.greenspun.com/bg/Nov 08 14:48
_dougThink of it, most any business can run a full client/server solution without paying a cent to Redmond.Nov 08 14:49
_dougYet we queue up to send our annual tithe to NS .. why ???Nov 08 14:49
_dougand keep getting phone calls from the AV people to renew our subscription .. :)Nov 08 14:52
_dougOf course NS had to kill a lot of companies along the way .. can't make an omlet without breaking necks :)Nov 08 14:53
schestowitzThat's the philosophy.Nov 08 14:54
schestowitz"Tilt into death spiral" and "cut the air supply"Nov 08 14:54
schestowitzSpot competition; destroy; repeatNov 08 14:54
_dougMost other chiefs of the major companies would have acted the same. Remember, business is war ...Nov 08 14:56
_dougI read somewhere that most CEOs exibit all the personality trates of a psychopathic personality ..Nov 08 14:56
_dougWhat's the point of being boss, if you can't dump on people :)Nov 08 14:57
_dougI saw a video of Larry Ellison, taking a meeting, while walking from his limo to the jet, while changing his shirt. That's similar to the business breakfast. You know what a business breakfast is, that's when you're not important wenough to have lunch or dinner with the Boss .. :)Nov 08 14:59
schestowitzThere are still rulesNov 08 14:59
schestowitzIntel bribes. is that fair?Nov 08 14:59
_dougrules are made to be ignored ..Nov 08 14:59
_dougWorking in the business sector is all, lies, more lies and empty promises, and that's just your own co-workers .. :)Nov 08 15:00
schestowitzWell, then become an activist and help the causeNov 08 15:01
schestowitzThe less resistance there is, the more corruption you'll suffer fromNov 08 15:01
schestowitzThe Bush gang's parting gift: a final, frantic looting of public wealth < http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfre... >Nov 08 15:01
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seller_liarM$ sponsors a capaign to help people with physical disabilitiesNov 08 15:12
seller_liaris a "false goodwill" and " a big indirectly ad campaign"Nov 08 15:12
seller_liarin Brazil there are a campaign called "Tele Ton" which helps people with disababilitesNov 08 15:13
seller_liarm$ gives to 250K to 300 K  of moneyNov 08 15:13
seller_liarit's better do not force african people do not use windowzNov 08 15:14
schestowitzThey do lots of PR like this.Nov 08 15:16
schestowitzIn India they now claim to help fight HIVNov 08 15:16
schestowitzit's like the robber baron throwing a nickel to claim benevolenceNov 08 15:16
seller_liarand the big problem is this campaign show a lot of time the m$ logoNov 08 15:17
schestowitzOf course.Nov 08 15:17
schestowitzThey get their money's worth.Nov 08 15:17
seller_liarThis enforces people emotionsNov 08 15:17
schestowitzGood will from a company? Not at the shareholder's expense.Nov 08 15:17
schestowitzYesNov 08 15:17
schestowitzAnd they use it to defend themselves when accused of their crimes.Nov 08 15:17
seller_liar"Hey stupid do not speak bad about m$! It helps people with disabilites"Nov 08 15:18
schestowitzYes, that's the idea.Nov 08 15:19
schestowitzOr "Don't say anything about Gates. he's a philanthropist"Nov 08 15:20
schestowitzIf people say this to you, educate them. I put some videos here: http://boycottnovell.com/200...Nov 08 15:20
seller_liarhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Rv708HSckNov 08 15:20
seller_liarokNov 08 15:22
schestowitzCorporate or government propaganda is powerful though, so you're faced with mountains of brainwash to annul.Nov 08 15:22
seller_liaryesNov 08 15:23
seller_liarO lot of sensasionalism tooNov 08 15:23
schestowitzHelp spread the word. The Internet is powerful.Nov 08 15:23
seller_liar"Oh boy help us, look for this poor children!!"Nov 08 15:24
_doug"You're using Internet Explorer, Our Player might not work , please use Mozilla Firefox for the best streaming experience"Nov 08 15:24
_doug:)Nov 08 15:24
seller_liarLook OpenSolaris RC1Nov 08 15:25
seller_liarhttp://www.genunix.org/Nov 08 15:25
schestowitzMessy pageNov 08 15:26
seller_liarWhy?Nov 08 15:26
seller_liarMessy?Nov 08 15:26
schestowitzLots of details in one page. Like old SourceForge.Nov 08 15:27
schestowitzI notice Schillix there. :-)Nov 08 15:27
schestowitz_doug would know Jeorg Schilling.Nov 08 15:27
seller_liarJorg Schilling is the creater of cdrtoolsNov 08 15:28
seller_liarSchilling somes years ago have a dispute with debian peopleNov 08 15:28
seller_liarJorg changed the licence of cdrtools and debian does not likeNov 08 15:29
seller_liarand then debian people have created a fork of cdrtools called cdrkitNov 08 15:29
seller_liarbut there a lib called libburniaNov 08 15:30
seller_liaris very goodNov 08 15:30
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twitter"When Vista 7 turns out to be another problem and the cash runs out, maybe -- just maybe -- Ballmer will be ousted."  LOL, those idiots will just replace him with another asshole.  M$ was built by people like him and Gates, so it's rotten to the core.Nov 08 16:28
twitterM$ is going to be raped from the inside until it implodes like Enron and Worldcom did.Nov 08 16:29
schestowitzI hear Bush might have to find new occupation...Nov 08 16:29
twitterWhy?  He's independently wealthy now, isn't he?Nov 08 16:30
schestowitzIt's about the thrill of abuse, not about wealth (resting on one's laurel)Nov 08 16:33
schestowitz*laurelsNov 08 16:33
twitterhmmm.  Bush likes being a big shot and his incompetence has left a lot of people tortured, jailed and dead, but I'm not sure he really enjoys inflicting pain.Nov 08 17:08
twitterHere's a strange account of the Yahoo/M$ slog, with M$ the victim of a patent M$ covets.  http://www.techuser.net/microsoft-yahoo.htmlNov 08 17:09
twitterIt would be like M$ to want a patent to shake at Google.  Hopefully, the elimination of business method patents nixes all of that.Nov 08 17:10
twitterIt's more like M$ to destroy rivals and scoop up their assets and select employees.Nov 08 17:11
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yuhongWhat is a reliable way to determine if MS is reformed?Nov 08 17:13
yuhongBecause I was thinking of ideas for reform of MS.Nov 08 17:14
yuhongBut even I would not like it if MS appears to be reformed when it is really not.Nov 08 17:14
schestowitzHi, yuhong.Nov 08 17:16
schestowitzyuhong: reform? You need to change the staff and business modelNov 08 17:16
schestowitzIt won't happen because you can't change inter-personal culture and it's impossible to change business strategy overnight without killing the company.Nov 08 17:17
schestowitzSee Novell for details.Nov 08 17:17
yuhongI'm not hoping that it will actually happen.Nov 08 17:20
yuhongBut I think a realiable way to determine whether it did happen is still a good idea.Nov 08 17:20
yuhongAt least anytime soon.Nov 08 17:21
yuhongBut I think a reliable way to see whether MS is reformed or not is still a good idea.Nov 08 17:22
yuhongI don't think Windows will die anytime soon.Nov 08 17:23
MinceRi think it will die soonNov 08 17:23
yuhongAnd would be sad if either Windows or Linux dies.Nov 08 17:23
schestowitzThe problem is that Microsoft spreads its people around as it implodesNov 08 17:23
MinceRvista, vista7, oems offering linux are signsNov 08 17:23
yuhongBecause competion is always good.Nov 08 17:23
schestowitzIt 'poisons' other companies with its arrogant Microsoft and tendencies to prefer Microsoft products (that's all they know and its a former employer). See BBC for details.Nov 08 17:24
MinceRm$ abhors competitionNov 08 17:24
MinceRthe "competition" from their products is worthlessNov 08 17:24
yuhongWhy?Nov 08 17:24
schestowitzyuhong: yes, competition is good. Microsoft is innately ANTI-competitive.Nov 08 17:24
MinceRbecause they're so far behind in terms of quality and functionality that people don't choose their products for themNov 08 17:24
MinceRthe only reason their products survive is that they've managed to push them onto the unknowing massesNov 08 17:25
schestowitzThey build a bad foundation.Nov 08 17:25
MinceRand then exploit the monopoly they've gainedNov 08 17:25
schestowitzThey chose not to rely on UNIX structures...Nov 08 17:25
MinceRwhich is going away nowNov 08 17:25
schestowitzMicrosoft in 2008 is like Apple in 1998Nov 08 17:25
schestowitzThey will need to rewrite or perishNov 08 17:25
yuhongTime for a little bit of history.Nov 08 17:25
yuhongI am not going that far, but time for a little bit of history.Nov 08 17:26
yuhongGuess how MS got it's monopoly.Nov 08 17:26
yuhongMS-DOS.Nov 08 17:26
schestowitzThey still put lipstick on a Windows pig, bolting in \security' as though it's a third-part feature or some subs-for product like OneCare.Nov 08 17:26
yuhongAnd guess why MS-DOS won?Nov 08 17:27
yuhongYou guessed it, Digital Research dropped the ball.Nov 08 17:27
yuhongI mean, CP/M-86 was so delayed that SCP got fustrated and wrote QDOS.Nov 08 17:28
yuhongAnd then IBM tried to license CP/M-86 but failed.Nov 08 17:28
yuhongIBM turned to MS and MS purchased 86-DOS from SCP.Nov 08 17:29
yuhongMS renamed it MS-DOS and licensed it to IBM.Nov 08 17:29
yuhongNotice that MS-DOS was not all that innovative, but it nevertheless won because DR dropped the ball.Nov 08 17:30
schestowitzDR dropped the ball?Nov 08 17:31
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&a...Nov 08 17:31
schestowitzOr did someone break the law?Nov 08 17:31
schestowitzAnd top ethics (and not for the first time)?Nov 08 17:31
schestowitz /s/top/drop/Nov 08 17:32
yuhongDR tried to recover with DR-DOS and then MS broke the law.Nov 08 17:32
yuhongWith things like AARD and FUD.Nov 08 17:32
yuhongDR had to file an anti-trust lawsuit against MS.Nov 08 17:33
yuhongAnd while it is bad that DR dropped the ball back in 1981, that was also bad as well.Nov 08 17:34
schestowitzWaitNov 08 17:36
schestowitzFor Microsoft to claim "there were already doomed anyway" is typical revisionism.Nov 08 17:36
schestowitzMicrosoft was the inferior product for like... forever.Nov 08 17:36
schestowitzThey also tried the same tricks against Java.Nov 08 17:36
schestowitzDavid Boies, lead trial attorney at DOJ, saidNov 08 17:37
yuhong"Microsoft was the inferior product for like... forever."Nov 08 17:37
yuhongAnd it did not matter back in 1981.Nov 08 17:37
schestowitz"The core of this trial is consumer choice and the premise is that consumers ought to make that decision, not Microsoft. Microsoft’s argument that says Java would have died anyway is a little bit like saying if somebody shoots you they can defend [themselves] by saying you have cancer."Nov 08 17:37
yuhong"For Microsoft to claim "there were already doomed anyway" is typical revisionism."Nov 08 17:38
schestowitzI refuse to accept revisionism because it's Slog-like tacticsNov 08 17:38
schestowitzSee http://boycottnovell.com/wp...Nov 08 17:38
yuhongYes DR was doomed, that is why DR created DR-DOS in the first place.Nov 08 17:38
schestowitzThey pretend they already win, they trash the competition with illegal tricks and then claim that the competition failed because it 'sucked'.Nov 08 17:38
schestowitzThey also tried to revise the story about Netscape in this way.Nov 08 17:39
schestowitz"...Netscape just wasn't good enough... it killed itself,... etc"Nov 08 17:39
schestowitzBroland too, although that's doubted.Nov 08 17:39
schestowitz*BorlandNov 08 17:39
yuhongAnd MS thwarting DR-DOS using anti-competeive tricks is still bad regardless of whether DR dropped the ball in 1981 or not.Nov 08 17:39
yuhongSo it is a bad excuse regardless of whether it is true or not.Nov 08 17:40
yuhongBTW, on Netscape, remember JSSS?Nov 08 17:41
yuhongSo on DR and MS, whether this claim is "revisionist" or not, it is still a bad excuse.Nov 08 17:42
yuhongBTW, on Netscape, remember JSSS?Nov 08 17:42
yuhongCSS won the war and Netscape was forced to hack a CSS-to-JSSS translator for Netscape 4.Nov 08 17:43
twitter"What is a reliable way to determine if MS is reformed?" They release their code GPL3.  Until they do that, Windows is non free and should not be used by anyone.  It sucks because M$ can't do better and often sells out users.Nov 08 17:44
yuhongI am not going that far.Nov 08 17:44
twitterYou don't have to.  They can go out of business instead.Nov 08 17:44
twitterWhy would anyone use Windows when they could use free software instead?Nov 08 17:45
yuhongI am not talking about MS going open source, I am talking about their bad tactics.Nov 08 17:46
twitterThey are one and the same.  M$ violates your rights to make money.Nov 08 17:46
schestowitzMirosoft is not going open source.Nov 08 17:46
yuhongAnd don't have to.Nov 08 17:46
twitterthen they will failNov 08 17:46
schestowitzIt's trying to capture those who did in order to reform them.Nov 08 17:46
yuhongWhen I am talking about reform, I am talking about their anti-compeitive and illegal tartics, not going open source.Nov 08 17:47
twitterThere will always be others who will jump in to make money with cheap hardware and free software.  M$ can't bribe the whole world and still make money.Nov 08 17:47
yuhong"It's trying to capture those who did in order to reform them."Nov 08 17:48
twitterOnly free software companies will be able to survive.Nov 08 17:48
yuhongAnd they often claim MS is reformed, which is why I asked for a reliable way.Nov 08 17:48
MinceRi don't think there's a single event that will signal that it has happenedNov 08 17:49
MinceRthey're extremely sneaky and nasty.Nov 08 17:49
twitterWhen M$ respects your rights, you can consider them reformed.  Trust nothing else.Nov 08 17:49
MinceRwhenever m$ does something it tries to show off as being good, you have to look for the catch.Nov 08 17:49
schestowitzMicrosoft got 'freer' -- it put DRM in Windows.Nov 08 17:49
MinceRwell, crApple did that firstNov 08 17:49
schestowitzMicrosoft got 'freer' -- it threatened Linux with lawsuits last year.Nov 08 17:49
twitterM$ releasing all of their code GPL is the one and only sign of reform possible.Nov 08 17:50
MinceRunless they find a way to circumvent GPLNov 08 17:50
MinceRfor example, by changing copyright law.Nov 08 17:50
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schestowitzThey already doNov 08 17:50
schestowitzThey also deceive Canadian lawmakers about it.Nov 08 17:50
yuhongI know, that is why I said reliable.Nov 08 17:50
MinceRwell, they've already found a way around GPLv2Nov 08 17:50
schestowitzUsing patentsNov 08 17:50
MinceRthat's why we have GPLv3Nov 08 17:51
schestowitzThe 'soft' copyrights.Nov 08 17:51
twitternot likely, the tide is moving against them now.  there's too much money to be made for copyright warriors to survive tooNov 08 17:51
MinceRand i doubt there will ever be a perfect defense against m$ in the form of a licenseNov 08 17:51
schestowitzCopyrights leaving you out? Invent a new law... software patents... then spread it.Nov 08 17:51
schestowitzThen find loopholes for filing of swpatens in India and EU.Nov 08 17:51
twitterUnlicensed white spaces is check mate for traditional broadcasters, publishers and telcos.Nov 08 17:51
twitterThis also helps destroy M$ because they lose their broadcast propaganda advantage.Nov 08 17:52
twitterSooner or later, people will understand that freedom is the thing they should be worried about, not "open source" or "reform"Nov 08 17:52
MinceRbtw, i don't think there's anything of worth associated by microsoft so the moment they're willing to reform they might as well start a new company and keep the fact that they're from microsoft secretNov 08 17:54
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MinceRfor whom with half a clue does the microsoft brand mean anything positive anyway?Nov 08 17:54
yuhongAnd then comes another hard problem.Nov 08 17:55
twitterno one, the only thing they have is fear, intimidation and confusion.Nov 08 17:55
MinceRwhich they'll have to get rid of if they're to reform.Nov 08 17:55
twitterthey convince people that non free software is inevitable and eternal when it's really a fad that passed a long time ago.Nov 08 17:56
yuhongThanks, I think that is a good indication.Nov 08 17:56
yuhong"btw, i don't think there's anything of worth associated by microsoft so the moment they're willing to reform they might as well start a new company and keep the fact that they're from microsoft secret"Nov 08 17:57
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twitterThe tipping point came when enough people realized that Windows is always going to suck and that free software works better.  Windows will vanish soon.Nov 08 17:57
yuhongAnd when that fact is revealed, then comes another hard problem similar to this.Nov 08 17:57
yuhongtwitter: I am not going that far.Nov 08 17:58
twitterWhy not?Nov 08 17:58
twitterYou value your own freedom don't you?Nov 08 17:58
twitterIs there anyone you would recommend Windows to?Nov 08 17:58
yuhongBecause freedom is only one of the advantages of free software.Nov 08 17:58
twitterThe other advantages to free software don't make Windows any better.  Why not demand they liberate it or boycott it?Nov 08 17:59
yuhongThere are other advantages that MS could duplicate even with non-free software.Nov 08 17:59
MinceRfreedom isn't just about software thoughNov 08 17:59
MinceRit's possible to duplicate other advantagesNov 08 17:59
MinceRhowever, microsoft is unable to do thatNov 08 17:59
twitterM$ can't do anything.  Look at the Vista fiasco.Nov 08 17:59
twitterThey are toast.Nov 08 18:00
yuhongI don't think Vista is that bad.Nov 08 18:00
MinceRthey've shown repeatedly that they're unwilling to try to compete on grounds of qualityNov 08 18:00
yuhongAnd that would need to be fixed.Nov 08 18:00
twitterVistaNov 08 18:00
twitterVistaNov 08 18:00
twitterVistaNov 08 18:00
twitterfailNov 08 18:00
yuhong>I don't think Vista is that bad.Nov 08 18:00
MinceRalso, if they want to bring out an operating system that doesn't suck, they'll have to ditch the windows baggage -- but with that goes the compatibility (with software) which is the only thing that's keeping it aliveNov 08 18:00
yuhongI don't think so.Nov 08 18:01
MinceR(disregarding the dirty deals with OEMs)Nov 08 18:01
yuhongThe NT kernel is a good one.Nov 08 18:01
MinceR(but those aren't going to do it in themselves)Nov 08 18:01
yuhongFor example.Nov 08 18:01
MinceRthe NT kernel is a failed monstrosityNov 08 18:01
yuhongI don't think so.Nov 08 18:01
twitterSome people sleep on nails and say its not so bad.Nov 08 18:01
yuhongWHy?Nov 08 18:01
MinceRthey've started with copying overcomplicated VMS, then made compromises that made the whole idea pointlessNov 08 18:01
twitterTell me why anyone should use Vista?Nov 08 18:01
yuhongI know some of the compromisesNov 08 18:01
MinceRsuch as putting the GUI into kernel space.Nov 08 18:02
yuhongSubsystems for example.Nov 08 18:02
MinceR(funny thing is, the GUI is still slower than X)Nov 08 18:02
MinceR(...which runs in userspace)Nov 08 18:02
yuhongWhere did you get this?Nov 08 18:02
yuhongFrom?Nov 08 18:02
MinceRiirc i've heard the putting the GUI into kernelspace part at collegeNov 08 18:02
MinceRprobably at a thousand other places tooNov 08 18:02
twittereveryone knows vista sucks and that it's a failure, even M$  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855Nov 08 18:03
twitterthat's why they are positioning Vista 7 as something wonderful and new.Nov 08 18:03
yuhongI don't think it sucks that bad. Do you have actual benchmarks showing the GUI is still slower than XNov 08 18:03
MinceRfunny how they start to publicly acknowledge how much vista sucks now that they're trying to sell vista7.Nov 08 18:03
MinceRwhich they'll claim is perfect, until the next version comes -- or windows finally diesNov 08 18:04
twitterGo read the failure log and tell me that any system does not run faster than that DRM'd dissaster.Nov 08 18:04
yuhongI don't think Vista sucks that much.Nov 08 18:04
twitterwhy not?Nov 08 18:04
twitterwhat about it do you like?Nov 08 18:04
yuhongI know that it has some problems, but overall it isn't that bad.Nov 08 18:04
yuhongUAC is pretty much a clone of sudo, for example.Nov 08 18:04
MinceRa pretty bad clone of sudo at thatNov 08 18:04
yuhonghttp://digg.com/linux_unix/Did_Micr...Nov 08 18:05
twitterNot even M$ would say that.Nov 08 18:05
yuhongYes there are a few differences.Nov 08 18:05
MinceRa few?Nov 08 18:05
yuhongEg. no timer.Nov 08 18:05
twittertheir internal email said they made UAC to be a user annoyance, everyone knows it did not do jack for security.Nov 08 18:05
MinceRand no asking for passwordNov 08 18:05
yuhongThat can be changed using policies or the registry.Nov 08 18:05
MinceRand UAC doesn't ask permission to run programs, afaikNov 08 18:05
yuhongYes it does.Nov 08 18:06
MinceRit asks permission for certain operationsNov 08 18:06
twitterM$ refuses to set up reasonable user/priv separation because BillG will always be root.Nov 08 18:06
schestowitzbblNov 08 18:06
twitterlaterNov 08 18:06
MinceRwith which go some really ugly detailsNov 08 18:06
yuhongUAC do ask premission to run programs.Nov 08 18:06
MinceRafaik non-gui programs don't ask for permissionNov 08 18:06
MinceRthere was a hack to get around UAC exploiting thatNov 08 18:06
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yuhongThe timer is not needed, just start the program from an elevated command shell.Nov 08 18:07
MinceRif it only needed permission to run programs, it wouldn't keep asking for permission so oftenNov 08 18:07
MinceRdoing away with the timer means losing an important security elementNov 08 18:08
MinceRas does doing away with the password promptNov 08 18:08
MinceRan unattended login on vista means anyone can do anything as admin on that machine.Nov 08 18:08
yuhongI am going to dig up a Google Group thread on this.Nov 08 18:09
yuhonghttp://groups.google.com/group/micros...Nov 08 18:09
MinceRand when is google going to respect web standards so that stupid webapp will actually work in a browser of my choice?Nov 08 18:11
yuhongBTW, http://blogs.msdn.com/uac/archive...Nov 08 18:11
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MinceRnon-default settings will help the average user littleNov 08 18:12
yuhongUnfortunately not.Nov 08 18:12
yuhongEach time the UAC prompt pops up, it is still fundementally starting a program, which is the same as sudo.Nov 08 18:13
yuhongOnly that the program does it.Nov 08 18:13
yuhongIn fact, Vista Home editions do not have the Group Policy editor.Nov 08 18:14
yuhongSo how often a sudo or UAC prompt pops up depends on the program doing it.Nov 08 18:15
yuhongAnd that is true with both UAC and sudoNov 08 18:15
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MinceRhttp://developers.slashdot.org...Nov 08 18:15
MinceRhttp://www.informationweek.com/blog/mai...Nov 08 18:16
yuhongOn iReboot, that is possible even with sudo.Nov 08 18:16
yuhongThat I mean the methods.Nov 08 18:17
MinceRhttp://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/2008...Nov 08 18:17
yuhongI am not going to go that far.Nov 08 18:17
MinceRUAC is especially bad when combined with ingrained coding practices used on windowsNov 08 18:18
MinceR(mainly, expecting that you're running as admin at all time)Nov 08 18:18
yuhongAnd the fustrateing things about this one is that non-admin have existed since NT 3.1, which was before Win95.Nov 08 18:19
yuhongAnyway, the NT kernel isn't that bad.Nov 08 18:20
MinceRyes it isNov 08 18:20
MinceRit runs lots of things in kernel space that shouldn't run there, for alleged performance reasonsNov 08 18:20
MinceRyet the whole thing is slower than many systems that do these things properly.Nov 08 18:20
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yuhongMinceR: Where is the benchmarks that show this?Nov 08 18:21
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MinceRthe difference on my old desktop was so great i didn't need a benchmarkNov 08 18:21
MinceRbut feel free to search.Nov 08 18:22
yuhongBTW, a failed microkernel was the Mach, which was too slow.Nov 08 18:22
MinceRwho's talking about failed microkernels?Nov 08 18:22
MinceRprotip: the NT kernel is not a microkernelNov 08 18:22
MinceRexactly in the way the OSX kernel isn't a microkernel.Nov 08 18:23
yuhongYep.Nov 08 18:23
MinceRas for Mach, it hasn't failed, just the product founded on it (HURD) is incompleteNov 08 18:23
MinceRthe performance penalty of running a microkernel has delayed their spread for a long time.Nov 08 18:23
yuhongYep.Nov 08 18:23
yuhonghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mach_kernelNov 08 18:25
yuhongA newer microkernel is L4.Nov 08 18:26
MinceRi know about both.Nov 08 18:26
yuhongOn IPC overhead, how about comparing the IPC overhead on Mach with NT?Nov 08 18:27
MinceRdesperately trying to find a way NT gets a chance?Nov 08 18:28
MinceR193040 < MinceR> the performance penalty of running a microkernel has delayed their spread for a long time.Nov 08 18:28
MinceR192948 < MinceR> protip: the NT kernel is not a microkernelNov 08 18:28
yuhongBecause I see some parallels between the failure of Mach and the moving of the window manager to the NT kernel.Nov 08 18:29
yuhongAnd I think it is IPC that led to both.Nov 08 18:29
twitterThese things don't matter.  Even if Vista was not a buggy, bloated POS, or if it had all the features of free software, it still lacks freedom.Nov 08 18:30
MinceRwhat you fail to see is that computers are much faster today than were back then.Nov 08 18:30
twitterUsers can't record TV shows, share with their neighbors or do other things that computers are supposed to do.Nov 08 18:30
MinceRand that security and reliability are considered more important than ever.Nov 08 18:30
yuhongTrue, Freedom is one real advantage of Linux.Nov 08 18:31
twitterif M$ provides their users with freedom, they will be reformed and any technical prowess they have will be useful.Nov 08 18:31
twitterGreat speed and efficiency is useless if you can't do things you want.Nov 08 18:32
macabeThey have no technical prowessNov 08 18:32
macabeSorry, couldn't help itNov 08 18:32
twitterno need to b sorry, you are right.Nov 08 18:33
twitterfree software also has efficiency and feature advantages now.Nov 08 18:33
macabeWhen people argue technical tidbits of ms over foss, I always think they're missing the forest for the trees.Nov 08 18:34
yuhongtwitter: Sure, open sourcing Windows would certainly help.Nov 08 18:34
yuhongBut even reforming the tartics is better than nothing.Nov 08 18:35
twitterthe technical tidbits used to be significant and kept users from being able to do what they wanted.Nov 08 18:35
twitterM$ kept that situation going by hardware and vendor manipulation, but the game is over now.Nov 08 18:35
macabeThe one overall argument that ms can't even begin to come close to is freedom of choice.Nov 08 18:36
MinceRopen sourcing windows could yield a better WINE.Nov 08 18:36
yuhongAs well as a better Windows.Nov 08 18:36
MinceRa better windows is one that has been uninstalled.Nov 08 18:36
yuhongI am not going that far.Nov 08 18:37
twitterWindows is already "Open Source" in that you can pay to see the source, but it's not free.Nov 08 18:37
MinceRthat's not openNov 08 18:37
yuhongNo it isn't.Nov 08 18:37
MinceRyou can pay to see any source, even if it means buying the company in some cases.Nov 08 18:37
twitterBecause you can't compile the whole thing yourself, you have to just trust them that what you see is what you are using.Nov 08 18:37
twitterBecause you can't modify and share your improvements, Windows will not improve.Nov 08 18:38
yuhongtwitter: I would not go that far.Nov 08 18:38
twitterWhy not?Nov 08 18:38
twitterM$ is so busy pushing digital restrictions, that Vista is not as good as XP was and XP was not so great.Nov 08 18:39
yuhongBut you are right about trust.Nov 08 18:39
twittergotta go for a while.Nov 08 18:42
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yuhongBTW, I wonder what if IBM chose CP/M-86 instead of MS-DOS?Nov 08 19:12
yuhongOr if IBM chose the 68000 instead of the 8086?Nov 08 19:12
MinceRthen the it industry hadn't suffered the blow m$ dealt itNov 08 19:12
MinceRwe'd be about 10 years ahead of where we are nowNov 08 19:13
MinceRdunno about the 68000Nov 08 19:13
MinceRi guess the difference betwen the 68000 and 8086 isn't that significantNov 08 19:13
yuhongDon't forget that MS-DOS won not because it was better.Nov 08 19:14
yuhongIt was because DR dropped the ball.Nov 08 19:14
MinceRi knowNov 08 19:14
MinceRit was won because IBM didn't want CP/M-86 badly enoughNov 08 19:14
MinceRand because DR didn't want to sell it hard enough.Nov 08 19:15
yuhongI know.Nov 08 19:15
MinceRalso because IBM were as lame as everNov 08 19:15
MinceRthey could have gotten away with giving m$ much less controlNov 08 19:15
MinceRif only they caredNov 08 19:15
yuhongThere were a lot that was lame about the original IBM PC.Nov 08 19:16
MinceRthen we would have a chance of engineers making important technical decisions in the IT world instead of having failed lawyers make them.Nov 08 19:16
yuhongAnother example is, what if Steve Jobs was not ousted from Apple back in 1985?Nov 08 19:21
yuhongThen another mess could have been bypassed.Nov 08 19:21
MinceRthen we'd have a more powerful little microsoftNov 08 19:21
MinceRthough they wouldn't have their stolen bsd code readyNov 08 19:22
MinceRand stolen mach codeNov 08 19:22
yuhong"stolen"?Nov 08 19:22
MinceRwell, what did they give the community back?Nov 08 19:23
yuhongNothing, but this don't change the fact that it was allowed under the license.Nov 08 19:23
MinceRare we any better with them selling the hackjobs they're selling?Nov 08 19:23
MinceRsomething being legal and something being moral/ethical are two different things.Nov 08 19:23
MinceR(or three)Nov 08 19:24
yuhongApple and open source is another mess altogether.Nov 08 19:24
yuhongIt has a long history dating back to 1990Nov 08 19:24
MinceRso it was in 1990 that apple realized they can't code an OS worth a damn?Nov 08 19:24
yuhongNo unfortunately.Nov 08 19:25
yuhongI was thinking that it would be technically better if Apple acquired NeXT back in 1993 instead of 1997.Nov 08 19:25
yuhongA lot of the backlash could have been avoided.Nov 08 19:26
MinceRi don't know. i think we'd be better off without apple at all.Nov 08 19:26
yuhongI am not going to go that farNov 08 19:26
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MinceRjust like failed lawyers, marketers can't make proper technical decisions either.Nov 08 19:26
yuhongUnfortunately, they only realized that they can't code an OS worth a damn in 1996, when copland failed.Nov 08 19:27
MinceRthe land of the cops!Nov 08 19:27
yuhongBy then, NeXT had already ported their OS to x86 and Apple had already moved on to PowerPC.Nov 08 19:29
yuhongIn contrast, both Apple and NeXT back in 1993 used the 68k series of processors.Nov 08 19:29
yuhongThere were a lot of backlash when Apple abandoned the x86 version of Rhapsody back in 1999.Nov 08 19:34
yuhongAnd when Apple abandoned cloning back in 1997.Nov 08 19:34
yuhongBack in 1993, Mac clones did not exist in the first place.Nov 08 19:34
yuhongAnd NeXT was a hardware company, so they did not port to x86 yet.Nov 08 19:35
yuhongGet it?Nov 08 19:35
MinceRi fail to see the significance of thisNov 08 19:38
MinceRother than that reusing NeXT code would have been easier back thenNov 08 19:38
MinceR(but why does that even matter? all they do is steal an OS, mutilate it horribly and put an ugly useless toy GUI on top of it)Nov 08 19:39
yuhong" mutilate it horribly and put an ugly useless toy GUI on top of it"Nov 08 19:42
yuhongI don't believe that is a problem of Mac OS X.Nov 08 19:43
yuhongI don't believe that claimNov 08 19:43
MinceRwell, that's your problemNov 08 19:43
yuhongI don't think Mac OS X is that terrableNov 08 19:44
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MinceRwow, such insightful arguments there. :>Nov 08 19:46
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schestowitztwitter: it's not just about sharing with neighbours; think about real rights like watching a film or listening to audio on a device /of your choice/.Nov 08 20:38
schestowitzMELVIN G. CALIMAG, the man who Microsoft bribed with a free trip, is still trashing Linux in the press: http://www.mb.com.ph/I...Nov 08 20:58
trmancohttp://www.webappers.com/2008/11/...Nov 08 21:08
schestowitzPointer to < http://royal.pingdom.com/2008/10/31/thi... >Nov 08 21:09
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schestowitzI didn't realise that "Canonical" is making money. it's losing money. I'm not sure about Alfresco, either.Nov 08 21:10
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trmancoyes Canonical might be losing some big bucksNov 08 21:13
trmancoThe only revenue they get is from there support I thinkNov 08 21:13
schestowitzF*Nov 08 21:14
schestowitzWe made /.Nov 08 21:14
schestowitzI don't know where yetNov 08 21:14
schestowitz*LOL* Found it. http://mobile.slashdot.org/ar...Nov 08 21:14
PetoKrausschestowitz: lolNov 08 21:16
PetoKrausi've got modpoints. againNov 08 21:16
PetoKraustwo weeks in a rowNov 08 21:16
PetoKrausit's weirdNov 08 21:17
schestowitzI see they attack the messenger again.Nov 08 21:17
schestowitzPeople do this to me in Digg as well (last spotted today), using libel.Nov 08 21:18
schestowitzPetoKraus: The mob mentality prevails in both Slashdot and Digg. it's good that Slashdot's editors can see past the noise.I disapprove his sock-puppetry, but I've seen evidence of ugly and coordinated (ad hominem) abuse against him. Absolutely disgusting!Nov 08 21:20
schestowitzThis is disconcerting.  "White House rushing to enact dozens of new rules"  < http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_10860919 >. http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-d... "Bush is planning a parting attack on the U.S. by eliminating regulations designed to protect consumers and the environment."Nov 08 21:33
schestowitzSo if McCain cannot get elected, they loot the public < http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfr... > and also ruin the law to permit monopolists to run rampant.Nov 08 21:34
schestowitzRMS also says: http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-dec....Nov 08 21:36
schestowitz"Ignorance (real or pretended) and cupidity are the maxims of the Republican party."Nov 08 21:36
schestowitzhttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/opinion/0... "While Americans eagerly vote for the next president, here’s a sobering reminder: As of Tuesday, George W. Bush still has 77 days left in the White House — and he’s not wasting a minute."Nov 08 21:37
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schestowitzhttp://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/11/05/info... "Microsoft’s best success at selling Windows currently does involve recycling the now seven year old XP into an OS it can sell on devices such as the netbook. That product category hasn’t yet taken off, but it does appear that Microsoft has been able to successfully kill Linux on the low end mini-laptops through its bundling agreementNov 08 21:42
schestowitz muscle with PC OEMs."Nov 08 21:42
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schestowitzJack Loftus moved from covering Linux to gaming... EA Dumps Casual Division < http://www.pcworld.com/article/1535... >Nov 08 22:05
schestowitzI've just pinged himNov 08 22:06
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schestowitzhttp://www.blogomonster.com/bl... "If this single statement is analysed then it means there will be growth in mutual business relationships between India and USA. If such is the statement of Obama where he is considering India amongst one of economy partners, then an imagination of grey days for outsourcing sector of India is not sustainable."Nov 08 23:03
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schestowitzGoogle made radical changes to Google Groups search. It now includes peripheral sites, even COLA mirrors. Very interesting.Nov 08 23:27
MinceRa radical change i'd like to see from google is starting to conform with web standardsNov 08 23:27
schestowitzYes, that too. It has been years since I complained about it publicly. They don't give a damn and they also prioritise Windows and IE.Nov 08 23:31
MinceRdunno about IE, but they don't care about Opera.Nov 08 23:39
schestowitzOpera Software should 'pull a Bork Bork Bork' on google.com then. ;-)Nov 08 23:44
MinceRgoogle should die in a fire.Nov 08 23:47
schestowitzWhich company should not then? You also strongly oppose Apple. Are you suggesting a new mode for commerce?Nov 08 23:50
MinceRthere are plenty of more honest companies out thereNov 08 23:57
MinceRwhat google does is harming the competition between web browsers.Nov 08 23:58
schestowitzRMS argues along the lines of: "It's fine making money as long you make it in ethical ways and respect people's freedoms."Nov 08 23:58
MinceR(and then i haven't even mentioned what they're doing against the privacy of their users and how they're helping dictatorships like china oppress their people)Nov 08 23:58
schestowitzGoogle puts its value before others'Nov 08 23:58
schestowitzMinceR: yes, that too. Someone who I don't know mailed me some hours ago. It's about a legal complaint about Microsoft's Hotmail... privacy and abuse. He wants me to publicise it.Nov 08 23:59

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GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, June 20, 2024
IRC logs for Thursday, June 20, 2024
The Real FSF Lost Well Over a Million Dollars Since the Defamation Attacks on Its Founder
2020-2023 income: -$659,756, -$349,927, -$227,857, and -$686,366, respectively
The Fake FSF ('FSF Europe') Connected to Novell Via SUSE, Not Just Via Microsoft (Repeated 'Donations')
'FSF Europe' is an imposter organisation
Just Less Than 3 Hours After Article on Debian Suicide Cluster Debian's Donald Norwood Recycles a Fortnight-Old 'Hit Piece'
The fall of Debian is its attack on its very own volunteers
IPFS censorship, Edward Brocklesby & Debian hacker expulsion
Reprinted with permission from disguised.work
Links 20/06/2024: Dumbphone Experience and Bad Encryption
Links for the day
Official Project Gemini news feed — Five years of Gemini!
the official statement
Ultimate Judgment: the Debian Suicide Cluster
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 20/06/2024: Bruce Schneier Adds Moderation Policy, FUCKSHITUP Can't Be Trademarked in the US
Links for the day
Mass Layoffs Happening in IBM Subsidiaries, Almost No Media Exists Anymore (to Cover That)
They can drive people out with R.T.O. of lay off in small batches to prevent any media scrutiny
Linux Months-Old News (LWN Uncorrected)
They could at least update the original
Links 20/06/2024: Trying to Maintain Health and the Implosion of LLM Bubble/Hype
Links for the day
Microsoft's Bing Share in Canada Has Only Decreased Since the LLM Hype ("Bing Chat")
According to statCounter
Gemini Links 20/06/2024: Golden Ticket and Looking for Web 1.0 Communities
Links for the day
Not Even TRYING to Compete With Microsoft
CMA (UK) ought to step in and investigate why Canonical (UK) refuses to even compete
Poul-Henning Kamp: Why Freedom in 'FOSS' Matters
Openwashing is more widely recognised as a growing problem
[Meme] EU Chat Control: The Problem is Too Much Privacy???
So what's with GDPR then? The EU is contradicting itself!
Lithuania: GNU/Linux Usage Climbs to Highest Level in Years
consistent abandonment of Microsoft
"Remarkably Little Had Changed."
Black or African American not even mentioned
This Week Fedora Celebrates Diversity, But It is Pushing Proprietary Software and Censorship
IBM openwashing, perception management, and reputation laundering gone awry?
Rumours That Nat Friedman (CEO) Was 'Fired' by GitHub/Microsoft
"Microsoft Refused to Fix Flaw Years Before SolarWinds Hack"
linuxsecurity.com: A Step in a Positive Direction
We hope that Guardian Digital and linuxsecurity.com will rectify the matter and persist with real articles
Links 20/06/2024: Somali Piracy Surges, Juneteenth Discussed
Links for the day
Gemini Links 20/06/2024: Gemini is 5 Today (Still No Gemlog Entry From its Founder)
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, June 19, 2024
IRC logs for Wednesday, June 19, 2024
Morocco: GNU/Linux Surges From 0.1% to 4.21%
Microsoft has mass layoffs in Africa these days
EU 'Chat Control' Law is Already Discrediting the Stated Goals of GDPR
Equip kids with always-on always-connected microphones and double-sided cameras, just to be safe...
[Meme] EU Chat Control II
Stuff like "Chat Control" means that GDPR will lose credibility and the true motives be rightly scrutinised/questioned
You're Only Proving Our Point, Sir
clearly obsessed with what we write
Just Because It Happened Over 20 Years Ago Doesn't Mean It's "Old News" or Stopped Happening
This strategy merely evolved
Thanking Solderpunk for 5 Years of Gemini Protocol
Long live Gemini Protocol and long live Solderpunk!
[Meme] He Who Controls the Boot
And licks the Microsoft boot
[Meme] systemd-recovery
Imagine "Linux" (Poetterix) becoming so unreliable that it needs factory resets
Almost Every Day This Month the GNU/Linux "Market Share" Grows in statCounter
Advocates like to see progress
Dawg, I Herd You Like Freedom
In the context of Software Freedom, little is ever said about free speech
Links 19/06/2024: Microsoft Faces Big Backlash, Bytedance Referred to US Department of Justice
Links for the day
Gemini Protocol Turns 5 in 15 Hours
Geminispace is still very much alive
OSI's Blog is Still 100% "AI" Nonsense Sponsored by Microsoft (the Authors Are Also Salaried by Microsoft)
The founder of the OSI no longer supports the OSI
Poland is Another Country Where Bing Lost a Lot of Market Share Since the LLM Gimmicks
down from 3.24% to 2.4%
Jean-Pierre Giraud, Possible Forgeries & Debian: elections, judgments, trademark already canceled, archaeologist
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
It Took Microsoft More Than 3 Years to Get a Quarter of Windows Users to 'Upgrade' to Vista 11 (3 Out of 4 Windows Users Still Reject It)
That is exactly what's happening right now
[Meme] The Empire
Don't be like Putin
They Want 'Transparency' Only for the General Public (Every Bit of Communication Available to the Government, Usually Via Corporations)
The EU might decide to effectively ban SSH
Justices Jeremy Johnson and Victoria Sharp to Decide the Fate of Julian Assange in About Three Weeks
Will he be back home in Australia by year's end?
Free Software Won't Fix Equality, But It Helps
Let's examine Free software in the context of: 1) money. 2) justice.
Treating Them as Teammates, Not as Political Props, Trophies, or Objects
Most of the world's people are women
Links 19/06/2024: SFTP and Gopher Milestone
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, June 18, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, June 18, 2024
US Surgeon General's Advice on Social Control Media (and "Smart" Phones) Seems Reasonable
People forget what the real world is about
Quiet at Planet Debian
planet.debian.org has not had any updates since 5 days ago
Belarus: Bing Fell From 1.1% to 0.6% Since Microsoft Started the LLM Hype (Yandex is 50 Times Bigger Than Bing)
Now enter Belarus
Morale at Microsoft Sinks to New Lows
The annual 'Employee Signals' survey showed a drop from 69% to 62% in positive responses