IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 3rd, 2008

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-12-04 13:29:55 UTC
Modified: 2008-12-04 13:29:55 UTC

PetoKraus	(me.ttl.today == 0) == true	Dec 03 00:06
PetoKraus	echo "GN guys."	Dec 03 00:07
schestowitz	exit(99);	Dec 03 00:16
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schestowitz	Orlowski idiocy: Nokia! won't! buy! Yahoo! < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/... >	Dec 03 00:19
MinceR	lol	Dec 03 00:19
MinceR	i like the reg's Yahoo! Related! Headlines!	Dec 03 00:19
schestowitz	But! It! Makes! No	Dec 03 00:22
schestowitz	But! It! Makes! No! ! Sense! for Nokia! to Buy! Yahoo! No! More! Than! Apple! Buying! IBM!	Dec 03 00:22
schestowitz	Dinner's ready: Boffins build omelette-making android < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/... >	Dec 03 00:23
MinceR	If! Nokia! Bought! IBM! They! Could! Make! Real! Computers!	Dec 03 00:25
MinceR	oops	Dec 03 00:25
MinceR	If! Apple! Bought! IBM! They! Could! Make! Real! Computers!	Dec 03 00:25
MinceR	as for nokia buying yahoo!, i have no idea	Dec 03 00:25
MinceR	nokia is already spreading in a sinister way, they've already eaten Qt	Dec 03 00:26
MinceR	s/Qt/Trolltech/	Dec 03 00:26
kevin8675309	and the shot down the adoption of theora into the html standard	Dec 03 00:26
kevin8675309	they*	Dec 03 00:26
MinceR	indeed	Dec 03 00:26
MinceR	and they insulted the FLOSS community.	Dec 03 00:27
kevin8675309	"submarine patents... oh nos!!"	Dec 03 00:27
kevin8675309	hehe	Dec 03 00:27
MinceR	it's so submarine that Xiphophorus has disclosed that the owner of the patents has licensed them to everyone	Dec 03 00:28
kevin8675309	indeed	Dec 03 00:28
schestowitz	Atokia	Dec 03 00:28
schestowitz	Noia also does automation with Linux now.	Dec 03 00:29
MinceR	nokia should drown in its symbian	Dec 03 00:29
schestowitz	In the news: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS351...	Dec 03 00:29
schestowitz	+1 (Symbian drowning)	Dec 03 00:29
MinceR	well, nokia will put linux anywhere now... except in phones	Dec 03 00:29
schestowitz	They have the Eclipse licence... probably friendly towards DRM and 'stuff'	Dec 03 00:29
kevin8675309	eek... DRM	Dec 03 00:30
schestowitz	There's more	Dec 03 00:30
schestowitz	They also defended Hollywood while publicly bashing FOSS people.	Dec 03 00:30
schestowitz	Well, them=Ari	Dec 03 00:30
kevin8675309	i try to avoid hardware that supports DRM, but it's not easy	Dec 03 00:31
schestowitz	Intel?	Dec 03 00:32
schestowitz	AMD supports DX10 too	Dec 03 00:32
kevin8675309	i'm on AMD... an old athlon 64	Dec 03 00:32
schestowitz	A lot of stuff is poisoned by conspiracy-inspired specs.	Dec 03 00:32
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/02... (New York serves AMD free Foundry lunch)	Dec 03 00:33
kevin8675309	but i am aware of things like PVP and HDCP, and if one wants a decent video card it will be hard to avoid em	Dec 03 00:33
schestowitz	"New York's economic-development agency is providing the billion-plus bribe incentive package in return for the siting of a $4.6bn fab in Malta NY, 20 miles north of the state capital of Albany. "	Dec 03 00:33
schestowitz	There need to be action.	Dec 03 00:33
schestowitz	Well, there might be some action against Novell in FOSDEM	Dec 03 00:33
MinceR	gn	Dec 03 00:34
schestowitz	RMS says we should protest when this happens (Novell sponsorship)	Dec 03 00:34
schestowitz	BN might set up a 'propaganda corner'. We can multiply this Boycott at every event we see Novell. One person has already booked boycottfosdem.org :-)	Dec 03 00:34
twitter	"i am aware of things like PVP and HDCP, and if one wants a decent video card" a video card that does not do what you want is not decent.	Dec 03 00:35
schestowitz	'Pulling an Anivar' is a last resort, but someone will ask Stallman's support for a call to FOSDEM organisors.	Dec 03 00:36
schestowitz	I suppose I could be coming for FOSDEEM, but it's too risky for me. Michael Larabel sort of invited me last year, but Novell people hate me.	Dec 03 00:37
twitter	ha ha, I also do not believe M$ will disappear in the next decade. I think they will tank in the next 20 months.	Dec 03 00:37
schestowitz	Haha.	Dec 03 00:37
schestowitz	Not so fast.	Dec 03 00:37
schestowitz	Debt first, then agony.	Dec 03 00:38
schestowitz	Either way, I look forward to Novell action.	Dec 03 00:38
schestowitz	Got this from someone nearby;	Dec 03 00:38
schestowitz	<anon> I can proxify the event a bit	Dec 03 00:38
schestowitz	<anon> I can rent some ULB students :-)	Dec 03 00:38
schestowitz	<anon> or UCL students :-)	Dec 03 00:38
schestowitz	<anon> it is a good opportunity to troll them	Dec 03 00:38
schestowitz	<anon> or get the job done by other proxies	Dec 03 00:38
schestowitz	<anon> taking Money from Novell is similar to participation in a drug traffic	Dec 03 00:38
schestowitz	<anon> the OSS community will put the criminals in jail	Dec 03 00:38
twitter	Debt destroys their illusion of invincibility, which is the only reason people buy into their second rate junk.	Dec 03 00:39
schestowitz	Layoffs too.	Dec 03 00:40
schestowitz	Novell closed office in Europe recently.	Dec 03 00:40
kevin8675309	it's sort of funny that MS has had to change their plans with Windows 7 (targeting netbooks). it's like the failed to predict the market	Dec 03 00:40
schestowitz	Only the Germany media covered this, IIRC.	Dec 03 00:40
twitter	The tipping point is already past and things will only get faster. No bribe money, no followers and people start doing what's in their best interest without fear.	Dec 03 00:40
schestowitz	I mailed Asay, so he wrote about this too.	Dec 03 00:40
kevin8675309	they*... my Y isn't working today :)	Dec 03 00:41
schestowitz	BTW, I had nothing to do with the action in India, but it was effective. It got the word out. We need more of this.	Dec 03 00:41
twitter	In the last two weeks, you have posted about two large school systems going free. The word is out.	Dec 03 00:42
kevin8675309	that would really be nice	Dec 03 00:42
twitter	Even if people don't understand all of the benefits of freedom, they know GNU/Linux costs a fraction of M$'s prison.	Dec 03 00:42
schestowitz	That too, but..	Dec 03 00:43
schestowitz	In India, articles explained why Novell had betrayed freedom. it's not about price.	Dec 03 00:43
schestowitz	It also harms MICROSOFT.	Dec 03 00:43
kevin8675309	when i went to college, 90% of the software we used was microsoft	Dec 03 00:43
kevin8675309	there was a linux class though which was quite nice... we used fedora	Dec 03 00:44
schestowitz	The media never covers freedom	Dec 03 00:44
schestowitz	In the media, freedom is described as things like "voting", democracy", freedom to choose.	Dec 03 00:44
twitter	broadcast and freedom are opposites	Dec 03 00:44
schestowitz	That's not freedom in the libre sense and lots of it is an illusion.	Dec 03 00:44
schestowitz	RMS talks about the confusion of "choice" and "Freedom"	Dec 03 00:45
schestowitz	Microsoft, for instance, might try to describe "freedom" as the freedom to choose a program (well, as long as it's Microsoft or Windows)	Dec 03 00:45
twitter	broadcast has always given people "choice" of centrally controlled "culture", it is natural broadcasters to try to curtail software freedom, but they are failing.	Dec 03 00:45
kevin8675309	"yes, it's cross platform. It runs on Windows 98, 2000, and xp!" hehe	Dec 03 00:46
schestowitz	You are "free" t choose between iPhone and iPHone 3G	Dec 03 00:46
schestowitz	Both are expensive prisons with a plan, but you are still "free" to choose.	Dec 03 00:46
schestowitz	Free as in "free markets"... free to destroy, free to lock customers in, etc.	Dec 03 00:46
schestowitz	kevin8675309: and XBox too sometimes.	Dec 03 00:47
schestowitz	It's not a joke.	Dec 03 00:47
schestowitz	Joe Wilcox caught them. Hold on.	Dec 03 00:47
schestowitz	““When you speak about interoperability do you mean across different platforms, like Windows and Unix, or among different versions of Windows, like XP and 2000.” He meant among different versions of Windows.” http://web.archive.org/web/20070712090142/http://www...	Dec 03 00:48
kevin8675309	one small example would be for them to support more file systems	Dec 03 00:50
kevin8675309	one problem there would be having two files called Kevin and kevin in a directory.. windows doesn't allow that	Dec 03 00:51
kevin8675309	every other OS does though	Dec 03 00:51
schestowitz	Apple gets ZFS	Dec 03 00:51
schestowitz	http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200... (Palm Warning Adds Further Pressure To Co's New Products)	Dec 03 00:55
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twitter	Updated the Jeff Gould, AlexGr connection http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/23/jeff-gould-...	Dec 03 02:28
twitter	and http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo...	Dec 03 02:28
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MinceR	geekings	Dec 03 09:36
kentma1	mornin'	Dec 03 09:39
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Eruaran	hello	Dec 03 12:56
schestowitz	Hey there.	Dec 03 13:00
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Grummy	hi	Dec 03 13:01
schestowitz	Hey	Dec 03 13:08
schestowitz	What\s up?	Dec 03 13:08
Eruaran	just got home	Dec 03 13:08
Eruaran	I find Microsoft's 2005/06 definition of "interoperability" staggering.	Dec 03 13:09
Grummy	i find channel on google	Dec 03 13:09
schestowitz	Grummy: Google does channel listings?	Dec 03 13:09
Eruaran	I can't say I agree with Joe Wilcox's 2006 post, "it's a communications problem that Microsoft customers and partners--and most certainly competitors--need to understand"	Dec 03 13:13
Eruaran	He doesn't seem to require that Microsoft understand that when the rest of the world talks about interoperability, it doesn't mean between different versions of Windows.	Dec 03 13:14
Eruaran	Can you imagine what the world would be like if Microsoft had a monopoly on telecommunications ?	Dec 03 13:16
PetoKraus	blue.	Dec 03 13:17
schestowitz	Red	Dec 03 13:17
Eruaran	Lunar.	Dec 03 13:18
Eruaran	beige ?	Dec 03 13:18
MinceR	it would be like the Dark Ages	Dec 03 13:19
MinceR	though if couriers are also telecommunications, it would be even worse	Dec 03 13:19
Eruaran	Someone tried to suggest to me the other day that NTFS was superior to Ext3	Dec 03 13:19
Eruaran	I just looked at him like this	Dec 03 13:19
Eruaran	o_0	Dec 03 13:19
MinceR	lol	Dec 03 13:19
trmanco	lol	Dec 03 13:20
trmanco	I use to have an NTFS formatted hard drive 4 days ago	Dec 03 13:20
trmanco	I reformatted it to ext3 and my read/write speed tripled	Dec 03 13:21
Eruaran	Hilarity ensued today at work	Dec 03 13:21
Eruaran	We had a Vista system in	Dec 03 13:21
Eruaran	It had spyware and viruses up to the gullet	Dec 03 13:21
schestowitz	Vista?	Dec 03 13:22
Eruaran	Meanwhile, when you tried run any useful software to remedy the situation, UAC pops up... cancel, or allow...	Dec 03 13:22
schestowitz	Nooooooooooo.........	Dec 03 13:22
schestowitz	It's immune...	Dec 03 13:22
schestowitz	Jim Allchin, Gartner and Enderle said so.. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/20/ana...	Dec 03 13:23
Eruaran	Riddled with malware and UAC is popping up as if its promptings are not slightest bit of a moot point.	Dec 03 13:23
Eruaran	Thought that was hilarious	Dec 03 13:23
Eruaran	I should have taken a photo	Dec 03 13:24
schestowitz	UAC protects..	Dec 03 13:24
schestowitz	The viruses.	Dec 03 13:24
Eruaran	jhaha	Dec 03 13:24
schestowitz	From the user	Dec 03 13:24
Eruaran	It does a good job	Dec 03 13:24
schestowitz	That's what they say	Dec 03 13:24
Eruaran	lol	Dec 03 13:24
schestowitz	"it's designed to annoy the user," remember?	Dec 03 13:24
schestowitz	Let me find the quote	Dec 03 13:24
schestowitz	http://www.crn.com/software...	Dec 03 13:25
Eruaran	I should have taken a photo with the "Smart Antivirus 2009" dialogue behind the UAC prompt...	Dec 03 13:25
schestowitz	'"The reason we put UAC into the platform was to annoy users. I'm serious," said Cross [of Microsoft].'	Dec 03 13:25
schestowitz	It works.	Dec 03 13:25
Eruaran	Its pure genius	Dec 03 13:26
schestowitz	I can't believe I said it (something from Microsoft works)	Dec 03 13:26
Eruaran	UAC works	Dec 03 13:27
schestowitz	It's an antifeature	Dec 03 13:27
schestowitz	http://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2007/fal...	Dec 03 13:27
Eruaran	Long after the system has been totally compromised, UAC continues to prompt... it works ;)	Dec 03 13:27
schestowitz	Rory Cellan-Jones is a friend of Microsoft	Dec 03 13:32
schestowitz	He invited them over and interviews the seniors	Dec 03 13:32
schestowitz	Not he uses the MSBBC to take a shot at Apple: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/tech...	Dec 03 13:32
schestowitz	Amazing.	Dec 03 13:32
schestowitz	Cronies army	Dec 03 13:32
schestowitz	http://technocrat.net/d/2008/12/2/55099 "The US has already bailed out a tiny slice of geography in one city and some electron rearranging businesses for hundreds of billions of dollars because it was claimed it was so very important."	Dec 03 13:40
schestowitz	If Presidential speeches are on YouTube instead of a .gov site, the YouTube TOS becomes a Federal regulation. < http://lessig.org/blog/2008/12/open_trans... >	Dec 03 13:45
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*Eruaran watches Sophie Koh & Steve Kilbey sing the Go-Betweens "Streets Of Your Town".		Dec 03 13:46
Eruaran	Steve Kilbey sounds pretty much exactly the same today as he did back in the late 80's	Dec 03 13:47
Eruaran	Which is good thing.	Dec 03 13:48
schestowitz	Microsoft invades FOSS.IN: "As I stated in my last blog, I am attending the premier Indian Open Source conference, FOSS.IN, in Bangalore. " http://port25.technet.com/archive/20...	Dec 03 14:59
schestowitz	Someone should tell Microsoft that until they stop threatening to sue Free software, their only role in FOSS.IN should be stair sweepers.	Dec 03 14:59
Eruaran	I just had an argument with a genuine freetard	Dec 03 15:05
Eruaran	Someone who doesn't understand FOSS, copyright, and musicians.	Dec 03 15:06
Eruaran	He at first sounds good until you realise he's taking it too far.	Dec 03 15:07
Eruaran	Information should be free. I agree.	Dec 03 15:07
Eruaran	But this guy wouldn't pay a band at a live venue either. He'd rather leech off the artist.	Dec 03 15:08
schestowitz	How can one leech off an artist?	Dec 03 15:09
schestowitz	It's reversing the issue.	Dec 03 15:09
schestowitz	Like thieving vs sharing.	Dec 03 15:09
Eruaran	He indicated he'd be happy to make money off the public who come to enjoy the music when they buy drinks and refreshments etc. And let the artist go home with nothing but his principles.	Dec 03 15:09
Eruaran	This guy is the kind of jerk who I've had to contend with before at bars. You play a couple of sets for which you're not getting paid and you won't even get a free drink at the bar. You'll be charged for that. He's making money off you though. (young bands and artists get exploited like this all the time).	Dec 03 15:11
schestowitz	http://www.businessweek.com/magazin... "Love is suing to terminate her contract with Vivendi Universal (V ), arguing that some common practices of the Big Five music labels are illegal. Most important, she contends that record labels are skirting a law that limits contracts to seven years. "	Dec 03 15:12
schestowitz	I couldn't find the quote (I think from her) where she accused the record labels, not the fans, of being "thieves"	Dec 03 15:12
Eruaran	Eventually you grow up and you don't allow yourself to get used anymore. The honest and sincere publicans are the ones who put their money where their mouth is.	Dec 03 15:12
twitter	Oh, I think you are looking for the "Courtney love does the math" article.	Dec 03 15:13
schestowitz	Oh, I see what you mean. I pictured it differently.	Dec 03 15:13
schestowitz	twitter: could use some help here.	Dec 03 15:13
twitter	http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature...	Dec 03 15:13
schestowitz	[H]omer could find the quote I guess..	Dec 03 15:14
Eruaran	I basically objected to this guys attitude. Code for free, art for free, music for free, thats all one thing... But exploitation is another.	Dec 03 15:14
twitter	Go read what Love has to say for herself.	Dec 03 15:14
schestowitz	It's usually the distributors, not listeners.	Dec 03 15:15
Eruaran	My position was that what he argued for was not freedom, it was exploitation. Placing an artist in a worse position than if he/she is deriving a pittance from Apple through iTunes.	Dec 03 15:15
schestowitz	They are also not helping by charging $20 for a piece of plastic	Dec 03 15:15
schestowitz	They doesn't help fans and not artists, either (they need mass distribution)	Dec 03 15:15
Eruaran	And the funny thing is	Dec 03 15:15
twitter	It's the big music publishers. Basically, no matter how much you sell you will end up with $30k/year.	Dec 03 15:15
Eruaran	It all started when I complained about the music corporations	Dec 03 15:16
Eruaran	the publishers	Dec 03 15:16
schestowitz	YEs	Dec 03 15:16
schestowitz	I saw some good interviews about it.	Dec 03 15:16
schestowitz	It's enlightening.	Dec 03 15:16
schestowitz	I don't thing the media covers it.	Dec 03 15:16
schestowitz	Circular issue maybe.	Dec 03 15:16
schestowitz	The media does not criticise the media	Dec 03 15:16
schestowitz	"Today I want to talk about piracy and music. What is piracy? Piracy is the act of stealing an artist's work without any intention of paying for it. I'm not talking about Napster-type software. I'm talking about major label recording contracts. " --Courtney Love	Dec 03 15:17
Eruaran	I wanted to go online and buy an album by The Church... Apple made it impossible for me as a Linux user, and they wouldn't give the artist anything worth sneezing at anyway... and Amazon expects me to be a US citizen (since when you sign up to their music service they assume everybody in the world lives in a state in the US).	Dec 03 15:17
schestowitz	"What happens to that million dollars? They spend half a million to record their album. That leaves the band with $500,000. They pay $100,000 to their manager for 20 percent commission. They pay $25,000 each to their lawyer and business manager. That leaves $350,000 for the four band members to split. After $170,000 in taxes, there's $180,000 left. That comes out to $45,000 per person. "	Dec 03 15:18
schestowitz	There are newer articles. They try to go solo now (no middlemen)	Dec 03 15:18
schestowitz	Eruaran: the artists need to make their own sites	Dec 03 15:18
schestowitz	Pay DIRECT	Dec 03 15:18
Eruaran	I'm happy to give The Church a few bucks in support of their music... But the corps made it very difficult for me to simply do that, and enjoy some good music.	Dec 03 15:18
Eruaran	schestowitz: yes, like Radiohead did	Dec 03 15:19
schestowitz	They also work along the lines og guilds now, whereby several bands can share resources in online shops. NO DRM.	Dec 03 15:19
twitter	" Add it up and the record company has spent about $4.4 million. So their profit is $6.6 million; the band may as well be working at a 7-Eleven."	Dec 03 15:19
schestowitz	DRM is not necessarily to force people to buy THE SAME THING over and over again.	Dec 03 15:19
Eruaran	Radiohead put their last album on their site and let you pay or not pay whatever you want	Dec 03 15:19
schestowitz	It just puts expiry dates on your music collection so that you starve	Dec 03 15:19
schestowitz	When starved, you're likely to buy NEW music.	Dec 03 15:20
Eruaran	Many people just downloaded the music for free	Dec 03 15:20
schestowitz	They don't want people to keep their vinyls and play hundreds of them for decades.	Dec 03 15:20
schestowitz	It's simple business models	Dec 03 15:20
Eruaran	But the Radiohead fans, like me, were happy to pay $5, $10, $20, in support of their favorite artist.	Dec 03 15:20
schestowitz	Same with Vista... Windows becomes insecure, no patches... must upgrades... must get new PC too.... new software for it... you know the gig.	Dec 03 15:20
Eruaran	No one was forced.	Dec 03 15:21
schestowitz	Eruaran: Radiohead made themselves more famous this way	Dec 03 15:21
schestowitz	They opened up to people outside the 'choir'	Dec 03 15:21
Eruaran	Radiohead wont release any figures or details, but rumor has it they did better out of that than they would through a record company.	Dec 03 15:21
schestowitz	People _who would have never paid anyway_	Dec 03 15:21
schestowitz	Same with books	Dec 03 15:21
schestowitz	O'Reilly Radar wrote about this recently.	Dec 03 15:22
Eruaran	At some stage I'll get a band together and we'll record some stuff	Dec 03 15:22
schestowitz	If person X won't buy your book anyway, why mind if s/he download it? After readind, that person might recommend it to a buying friends.	Dec 03 15:22
schestowitz	*friend	Dec 03 15:22
Eruaran	I will do what Radiohead did	Dec 03 15:22
schestowitz	Jono Bacon did this too	Dec 03 15:22
schestowitz	I have his album as Ogg	Dec 03 15:22
Eruaran	But I'll make everything available as oggies :)	Dec 03 15:22
schestowitz	One files, gunzipped tar	Dec 03 15:23
Eruaran	yes	Dec 03 15:23
schestowitz	*file (many tracks)	Dec 03 15:23
schestowitz	There is no 'shelf life' either.	Dec 03 15:23
Eruaran	Its much nicer when it comes to art, that people give without compulsion	Dec 03 15:23
schestowitz	The files are there for decades, so even a thousand d/ls per year can accumulate	Dec 03 15:23
schestowitz	Art was always like that	Dec 03 15:24
Eruaran	Its nicer to me, because like many musicians I can't help but take it personally	Dec 03 15:24
schestowitz	Until people decided to charge for oxygen (art)	Dec 03 15:24
schestowitz	They appointed themslelves gatekeepers	Dec 03 15:24
Eruaran	Its not a dollars and cents thing	Dec 03 15:24
schestowitz	The illusion of incentives if propaganda	Dec 03 15:24
schestowitz	Like "piracy ruins jobs and the ecnomy"	Dec 03 15:24
schestowitz	BS	Dec 03 15:24
schestowitz	It ruins the structure of oppressors	Dec 03 15:25
schestowitz	Eruaran: there's no scarcity	Dec 03 15:25
schestowitz	In the past you needed to set up band to play for you.	Dec 03 15:25
schestowitz	Later you needed things like expensive stereos and media , I guees.	Dec 03 15:25
schestowitz	Right now you just need the 'pipes' (Internet), not the media	Dec 03 15:25
Eruaran	If people are happy to give you money for what you do, you think consciously or unconsciously, "they like me, they like music"... and conversely, if people are cheap bastards, "they don't like me, maybe my music isn't very good"...	Dec 03 15:26
schestowitz	This obviates the need for shopkeepers and physical transporation.	Dec 03 15:26
Eruaran	*they like my music	Dec 03 15:26
schestowitz	It's down to stream of electrical signals now.	Dec 03 15:26
schestowitz	Not a Big band and an auditorium	Dec 03 15:26
schestowitz	I run BN without any profit because I want people to read it.	Dec 03 15:26
schestowitz	It's wrong to assume that journos wrote for money, either.	Dec 03 15:27
schestowitz	They are always underpaid and overworked.	Dec 03 15:27
schestowitz	It's about self-expression, which is something instinctive.	Dec 03 15:27
schestowitz	This morning I turned my Nas CD into Oggs.	Dec 03 15:28
schestowitz	I won it in a radio show :-)	Dec 03 15:28
Eruaran	If I put something on a website, I'd be much happier to make it available for free or pay if you like it, and find that 10 thousand people got it free without being threatened by some corporate, and a thousand people gave me $10 each for it... I'd be like, "wow 1000 people liked my music enough to give me $10 each for it"	Dec 03 15:29
schestowitz	Corporate Wolves Circle Yahoo's Goose < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/12/02/corpor... >	Dec 03 15:29
schestowitz	Eruaran: the sag is price-fixing.	Dec 03 15:30
schestowitz	Artificial inflation of price still enabled very few people to exclude so many.	Dec 03 15:30
schestowitz	YouTube is inversion of this.	Dec 03 15:30
Eruaran	Its funny how the vultures seem to gather around Yahoo proclaiming its a corpse, while they are still doing much better in online search advertising than Microsoft.	Dec 03 15:30
schestowitz	They are still agitated.	Dec 03 15:31
schestowitz	Predatory capitalism = hawks, blood, greed, dog eat dog	Dec 03 15:31
Eruaran	schestowitz: yes, I wouldn't fix any prices, I was just using $10 as a generic number hypothetical example thingy	Dec 03 15:31
schestowitz	Icahn = white-collar criminal	Dec 03 15:31
schestowitz	Price-fixing is something different.	Dec 03 15:32
schestowitz	I was referring to the labels.	Dec 03 15:32
schestowitz	It's like the thing Samsung/LG do... also NVidia, Intel..	Dec 03 15:32
schestowitz	Patents facilitates this.	Dec 03 15:32
schestowitz	"The eagerly awaited new album by Prince is being launched as a free CD with a national Sunday newspaper in a move that has drawn widespread criticism from music retailers." http://business.guardian.co.uk/sto...	Dec 03 15:33
Eruaran	I paid $20 (AUD) for Radiohead's 'In Rainbows'... I could have downloaded it for free, but as a fan I can't do that ;) ... And when it was left up to me to decide how much I'd pay, I felt I was being too cheap until I settled on $20	Dec 03 15:33
schestowitz	Though shalt not make a bargain.	Dec 03 15:33
schestowitz	Other bands followed suit	Dec 03 15:34
Eruaran	I think its great	Dec 03 15:34
schestowitz	Some get a cold shoulder or retaliation for challenging the business model of the MAFIAA	Dec 03 15:34
Eruaran	I was the one who was in the position of deciding what was fair	Dec 03 15:34
Eruaran	the listener is empowered	Dec 03 15:35
Eruaran	I'm not even on the MAFIAA's radar anyway	Dec 03 15:35
Eruaran	I'm just thinking of getting a few muso friends together and hoping to have some good music grow out of some jam sessions...	Dec 03 15:36
Eruaran	nice and organic	Dec 03 15:36
Eruaran	fun and relaxed with no expectations	Dec 03 15:37
Eruaran	if we think we're doing some good stuff and were really into the sound... we'll record what were doing and put it up on a site	Dec 03 15:37
Eruaran	Its about sharing what you're doing and getting feedback	Dec 03 15:37
schestowitz	Oh, yeah.. feedback too.	Dec 03 15:38
Eruaran	And I don't think it hurts to have an open door there if people want to make a donation	Dec 03 15:38
schestowitz	I'm gonna do a post about this later: Trumpet Windows Loudly--- Except When It's Malware Outbreaks < http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2008/12/t... >	Dec 03 15:38
Eruaran	But it would be fairly free (free as in, unstructured)	Dec 03 15:39
schestowitz	KDE accepts donations too	Dec 03 15:39
Eruaran	yes	Dec 03 15:39
schestowitz	Lots of companies would suffer had it ceased to be developed	Dec 03 15:39
schestowitz	So they share the costs among them,.	Dec 03 15:39
Eruaran	yes	Dec 03 15:39
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 03 15:40
Eruaran	Its not like nobody ever gets paid anything by people who want them to continue	Dec 03 15:40
schestowitz	I was	Dec 03 15:41
schestowitz	Back when I programmed	Dec 03 15:41
schestowitz	I was paid to do GPL-licensed development	Dec 03 15:41
schestowitz	I was also paid to just do my thing in Manchester Computing.. like my PhD and all.	Dec 03 15:42
Eruaran	So, I was all, "whats your problem ?" with this guy becuase he thought I shouldn't pay for The Church's "Uninvited Like The Clouds" album... I don't think he even realised its published though an indy label that gives a good deal more to the band than the big publishers.	Dec 03 15:44
Eruaran	Its like someone was saying, "thou shalt not pay for that !", while I was saying, "get off my back, if I want to give them some cash I will, so get lost"	Dec 03 15:45
Eruaran	And besides	Dec 03 15:45
Eruaran	No one is seeding on the torrents	Dec 03 15:46
Eruaran	:P	Dec 03 15:46
schestowitz	I never use torrents	Dec 03 15:46
PetoKraus	hehe	Dec 03 15:46
Eruaran	(I really wanted to listen to it)	Dec 03 15:46
PetoKraus	Michael Labarel did a good job on the benchmarks again	Dec 03 15:46
schestowitz	Like I didn't use IRC between the age of 15 and 26	Dec 03 15:46
schestowitz	His benchmarks are not being challenged.	Dec 03 15:49
schestowitz	There is a danger of Phoronix becoming de facto 'truth', without refutal from competition of some sort.	Dec 03 15:49
schestowitz	Like peer review	Dec 03 15:49
neighborlee	schestowitz, morning..as per usual , alex said im wrong about debian and fedora not inlcuding mono in default installs but could point to nothing saying so..how typical ;)	Dec 03 15:50
neighborlee	these guys are the gift that keeps on giving ;)	Dec 03 15:50
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/03... "Gordon Brown has already kicked this off with the Banking Bill, which overhauls the regulation of the banking and financial services sector." yawn	Dec 03 15:50
*schestowitz grabs virtual doughnuts		Dec 03 15:51
PetoKraus	schestowitz: well, in terms of benchmarks you possibly can't get better	Dec 03 15:51
Eruaran	mmm	Dec 03 15:51
Eruaran	donuts	Dec 03 15:51
schestowitz	Alex is crusading.	Dec 03 15:51
Eruaran	I thought I'd try out Fedora 10 after work today	Dec 03 15:51
schestowitz	Mission: unknown	Dec 03 15:51
neighborlee	Eruaran, its great ;)	Dec 03 15:52
neighborlee	schestowitz, lol	Dec 03 15:52
Eruaran	I don't know yet	Dec 03 15:52
schestowitz	KDE4 got priases for it.	Dec 03 15:52
PetoKraus	umm four o clock	Dec 03 15:52
Eruaran	I got a black screen	Dec 03 15:52
schestowitz	Eruaran: did you see my links this morning?	Dec 03 15:52
Eruaran	So dunno yet	Dec 03 15:52
PetoKraus	i could go for the picture hunt now...	Dec 03 15:52
Eruaran	schestowitz: which ones ?	Dec 03 15:52
neighborlee	I really like their kde4 implementation,,though I use gnome ( not sure how long thats going to last but we'll see)	Dec 03 15:52
schestowitz	Eruaran: hold on.	Dec 03 15:52
schestowitz	Testing Fedora 10 KDE Edition : http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/20...	Dec 03 15:53
Eruaran	click	Dec 03 15:53
schestowitz	Fedora 10 Review : http://www.montanalinux.org/fedora...	Dec 03 15:53
Eruaran	ooo sexy screenshot	Dec 03 15:53
schestowitz	Both have good words for KDE4	Dec 03 15:53
Eruaran	4.2 is looking really good	Dec 03 15:54
twitter	Yeah, it was apparent that KDE 4 was going to be great back with Bruce Byfield was ignorantly slinging mud at it.	Dec 03 15:54
neighborlee	lol	Dec 03 15:55
Eruaran	He's going to have to eat his words	Dec 03 15:55
PetoKraus	umm	Dec 03 15:55
twitter	Oh, he's put some ass covering in his writing, so he'll be able to protest his innocence. But I've found a pattern in that guy's writing.	Dec 03 15:56
twitter	http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo...	Dec 03 15:56
Eruaran	A pattern ? Like skidmarks ?	Dec 03 15:57
twitter	follow the link if you are really interested. I mention it because I found another slimy character when researching the Peter Quinn story yesterday.	Dec 03 15:57
twitter	David Coursey, ick.	Dec 03 15:58
twitter	PJ picks up too many rocks. I'm going to have to cleans myself at fsf.org for a while.	Dec 03 15:59
schestowitz	Who's he?	Dec 03 15:59
twitter	He was an eweek writer.	Dec 03 15:59
schestowitz	Too many rocks?	Dec 03 15:59
schestowitz	Current writer?	Dec 03 15:59
schestowitz	Or MA days?	Dec 03 15:59
twitter	might still be.	Dec 03 15:59
schestowitz	I hardly see him	Dec 03 15:59
schestowitz	Never come across the name (or don't remember it)	Dec 03 16:00
schestowitz	They used to employe Peter Galli	Dec 03 16:00
schestowitz	He attacked FOSS things..	Dec 03 16:00
twitter	Seems to have vanished in 2006 http://www.eweek.com/cp/bio...	Dec 03 16:00
schestowitz	Got hired by Microsoft some months ago (I call it the "reward")	Dec 03 16:00
schestowitz	Where is he now?	Dec 03 16:00
schestowitz	What did he write?	Dec 03 16:00
Eruaran	Here is a question with regard to developer mindshare	Dec 03 16:01
schestowitz	Most recnet:	Dec 03 16:01
schestowitz	starstarstarstarstar 2006-03-21 Vistas Delay Is Tough Love	Dec 03 16:01
schestowitz	starstarstarstarstar 2006-02-10 Microsoft Approaches Secure, Reliable Vista	Dec 03 16:01
schestowitz	starstarstarstarstar 2006-02-03 Will Vista Really Ship This Year?	Dec 03 16:01
schestowitz	starstarstarstarstar 2006-01-27 Vistas Transparency Is Good News	Dec 03 16:01
schestowitz	WTF?????	Dec 03 16:01
Eruaran	"Where are all the best minds going ?"	Dec 03 16:01
schestowitz	What is this, a Vista Munchkin?	Dec 03 16:01
twitter	I don't know. All I found is the above and here http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jour...	Dec 03 16:01
schestowitz	Vista fan... back in 2006.	Dec 03 16:01
Eruaran	Secure, Reliable Vista eh ? falls over laughing	Dec 03 16:01
schestowitz	We all know how Vista turned out.	Dec 03 16:01
twitter	:)	Dec 03 16:02
schestowitz	Eruaran had to clean a Vista PC today... UAC stodd in the way	Dec 03 16:02
schestowitz	Guarding the virues...	Dec 03 16:02
twitter	Wipe, replace or relaod.	Dec 03 16:02
schestowitz	twitter: what else did he write?	Dec 03 16:02
schestowitz	And how did you find out?	Dec 03 16:02
Eruaran	"You are trying to remove malware... cancel or allow"	Dec 03 16:02
schestowitz	Avergae rating 3/5	Dec 03 16:02
twitter	Like I said, I ran into this guy looking up Peter Quinn at groklaw.	Dec 03 16:03
schestowitz	starstarstarstar 2005-12-17 AOL Deal Could Speed Googles Undoing	Dec 03 16:03
schestowitz	starstarstarstarstar 2005-12-06 Ganging Up on Google	Dec 03 16:03
schestowitz	starstarstarstarstar 2005-11-22 How Open Can Microsofts Formats Be?	Dec 03 16:03
schestowitz	I fail to see: 1) something pro-Microsoft OPPONENT 2) Something against Microsoft	Dec 03 16:04
schestowitz	This guy is more of an activist perhaps, not a repoter	Dec 03 16:04
schestowitz	He should write in a blog, not in eWeek	Dec 03 16:04
schestowitz	twitter: what did he do to or say about Quinn?	Dec 03 16:04
Eruaran	No need to reinstall, I cleaned the thing up... cancel or allow...	Dec 03 16:04
schestowitz	Maybe revisionism?	Dec 03 16:04
schestowitz	http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source...	Dec 03 16:05
schestowitz	Ahhhhhhhhh......	Dec 03 16:05
schestowitz	"Opinion: The switch to the OpenDocument format will make state documents less accessible to the public because no one has the software to read the format."	Dec 03 16:05
schestowitz	Opinion!	Dec 03 16:05
schestowitz	Whose opinion?	Dec 03 16:05
twitter	P.J. says it best, http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.p...	Dec 03 16:05
MinceR	OOo is so difficult to download, really	Dec 03 16:05
Eruaran	Next Microsoft munchikin who tries to say something smart to me, my only reply will be, "cancel or allow ?"	Dec 03 16:05
MinceR	and it costs so much!	Dec 03 16:05
MinceR	Eruaran: lol	Dec 03 16:05
schestowitz	First, the inaccurate title: Quinn is not an "Open Source" martyr, because ODF is not Open Source.	Dec 03 16:06
schestowitz	Wait... did he change the headline??	Dec 03 16:06
schestowitz	"We have a winner for most tasteless reaction to Peter Quinn's resignation, David Coursey's mean-spirited "opinion" on eWeek, offensively titled "The Open-Source Martyr Meets His Fate.""	Dec 03 16:06
schestowitz	Oh, wait!! So they didn't change the title, but he had a whole series going.	Dec 03 16:07
schestowitz	David Coursey may have done some lobbying for the Vole.. Zuck would be porud	Dec 03 16:07
schestowitz	"But seriously, is Microsoft now in the business of causing martyrdom? What else is he saying? People can be dealt with, if they don't cooperate? If they choose Open Source? Have we become so cynical that any of us think that's acceptable?"	Dec 03 16:08
schestowitz	"Incidents like the libel of Peter Quinn cost Microsoft business. Here's why: There's something in the human heart that utterly despises a bully."	Dec 03 16:09
schestowitz	"I think Coursey and Microsoft are in for a surprise, if they think threatening folks will work long-term. Here's the thing Microsoft, and Coursey, are not factoring in. Microsoft can't bully everyone on Planet Earth, or buy us all off."	Dec 03 16:09
schestowitz	Thank goodness eWeek is pretty much dead (bankruptcy). Ziff/Gates junkyard of poison.	Dec 03 16:10
twitter	They can try to buy off the press, but you just pointed out how well that's going.	Dec 03 16:10
Eruaran	BenQ have Netbooks out now	Dec 03 16:11
*Grummy has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Dec 03 16:11
Eruaran	The Joybook Lite	Dec 03 16:11
Eruaran	It looks a lot like the Acer Aspire One	Dec 03 16:11
twitter	Maureen O'Gagga is still writing. I ran into a list of here stuff yesterday too. It had truly embarrassing reader numbers, less than 200 for most new articles.	Dec 03 16:11
Eruaran	With a pattern on it...	Dec 03 16:12
twitter	now to cleanse..... bbl	Dec 03 16:12
schestowitz	twitter: funny you mention MOG	Dec 03 16:14
schestowitz	I wrote about it 1 minute ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/03/suse-exc...	Dec 03 16:14
schestowitz	She went undercover for a while	Dec 03 16:14
schestowitz	Bill Beebe knew she was doing this	Dec 03 16:15
schestowitz	Nobody else seemed to know	Dec 03 16:15
schestowitz	Then PJ had MOG uncovered	Dec 03 16:15
schestowitz	And MOG came out from the hiding with a 20-year-old pic	Dec 03 16:15
schestowitz	Beebe also defneded MOG's spying.	Dec 03 16:15
schestowitz	Which makes you wonder if there's 'intimacy' there	Dec 03 16:15
schestowitz	re #s. MOG 'articles' are never cited anywhere	Dec 03 16:16
schestowitz	I don't know if sys-con admania is to blame	Dec 03 16:16
schestowitz	http://coursey.com/about-david-coursey/ "2004-2007 – Ziff Davis Media – Editor-at-large (and other titles). Columnist for eWEEK.com, a founding editor of Gearlog.com, etc. Currently doing non-editorial assignments, including writing and hosting online events."	Dec 03 16:23
schestowitz	He used to work for the CNETsoftiers... "2001-2004 – CNET Networks Inc. – Executive Editor, ZDNet AnchorDesk, a daily e-mail newsletter about computers, Internet, and consumer electronics. He was also a commentator and interviewer on CNET Television, including News.com TV on CNBC, and host of a daily call-in program on CNET Radio."	Dec 03 16:24
schestowitz	"His clients have included most of the elite companies in Silicon Valley and beyond."	Dec 03 16:25
schestowitz	"Elite companies..." first time I hear this phrase	Dec 03 16:25
schestowitz	"# Dave still stands up for Vista. He blames hardware while paradoxically admitting that nothing has changed at M$ in the last ten years.	Dec 03 16:28
schestowitz	# M$ DRM booster, "a useful, even necessary new technology for business networks.""	Dec 03 16:28
schestowitz	Good picks there too.	Dec 03 16:28
Eruaran	A customer asked me today of Vista, "do you think it will get better ?". I responded, "well its been two years now, I think we can draw a conclusion from that".	Dec 03 16:41
Eruaran	DRM and networks... someone has been smoking the good stuff...	Dec 03 16:42
Eruaran	My first experience with DRM was quite a few years ago now... I coulnd't play any of the music on a notebook that had Windows MCE on it becuase the software couldn't verify it was OK and it wasn't plugged into a network.	Dec 03 16:45
Eruaran	"I'm not sure I should play this song you want me to play... let me go online and check if I'm allowed to play it... oh darn, no network... oh well, I just won't play it then"	Dec 03 16:46
Eruaran	User see's RED	Dec 03 16:46
schestowitz	I think you'll like the post I've just dispatched: http://boycottnovell.com/2008...	Dec 03 16:49
schestowitz	I wonder, how come not enough of the media is covering these issues?	Dec 03 16:49
schestowitz	It's like a verboten area to explore... like how the CIA works... the taboo of back doors and neglect	Dec 03 16:50
schestowitz	Eruaran: it has been more than 2 years	Dec 03 16:50
schestowitz	They RTMed it in Nov 2006, IIRC.	Dec 03 16:50
schestowitz	They have had time since then to fix bugs, regardless of when it went on sale.	Dec 03 16:50
Eruaran	“…the intrusion was severe enough to raise the INFOCON status, the information security equivalent of the DEFCON alert, and also necessitate the briefing of the president.”	Dec 03 16:51
schestowitz	MCE shudder DRM as an excuse for spying on any action.	Dec 03 16:51
Eruaran	HOLY CRAP !	Dec 03 16:51
schestowitz	Then again, Windows does this too, with or without MCE	Dec 03 16:51
schestowitz	Bush.	Dec 03 16:52
schestowitz	"Oh man! Bring them folks with da bombs!	Dec 03 16:52
schestowitz	I kid you not...	Dec 03 16:52
schestowitz	The US govt. had plans to bomb sources of botnets	Dec 03 16:52
Eruaran	Bush is a loony	Dec 03 16:53
schestowitz	If they find a botmaster that's carryng out a DDOS attack, they're willing to bomb (physically, not digitally)	Dec 03 16:53
schestowitz	Let me find it	Dec 03 16:53
schestowitz	Else I'd be challenged for "lying"	Dec 03 16:53
schestowitz	U.S. cyber counterattack: Bomb 'em one way or the other http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/0...	Dec 03 16:54
schestowitz	US plans for cyber attack revealed : http://www.theinquirer.net/default.as...	Dec 03 16:54
schestowitz	At will, China could paralyze the US at any moment, IMHO	Dec 03 16:54
schestowitz	They have enough crackers to take the digital system down and AWOL.	Dec 03 16:54
schestowitz	EveryDNS, OpenDNS Under Botnet DDoS Attack : curitywatch.eweek.com/exploits _and_attacks/everydns_opendns_un der_botnet_ddos_attack.html	Dec 03 16:55
schestowitz	Oops. http://securitywatch.eweek.com/exploits_and_at...	Dec 03 16:55
schestowitz	White house.. cracked. Pentagon.. already cracked... DNS... World Bank.. you name it.	Dec 03 16:55
schestowitz	The question is, "WHICH of the incidents get /reported/?"	Dec 03 16:56
Eruaran	I think in the event of hostilities between the US and China, the US would be blind within minutes.	Dec 03 16:56
schestowitz	You think? I think they do too.	Dec 03 16:58
Eruaran	The NYSE doesn't use Windows, but the US Military does... Can you say, "military intelligence" ?	Dec 03 16:59
schestowitz	Nokia eyes wider use of Linux software in phones < http://www.reuters.com/article/intern... > WOT, no Symbian wtf?	Dec 03 17:00
schestowitz	Eruaran: the military moves to Red Hat, but it's not there yet.	Dec 03 17:01
Eruaran	I gotta buy me some shares in Red Hat	Dec 03 17:01
schestowitz	Oracle PR, pretense of good citizenship... http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Oracle-C...	Dec 03 17:03
schestowitz	No, no shares	Dec 03 17:03
schestowitz	Wall Street is in a freefall	Dec 03 17:03
schestowitz	It's a casino	Dec 03 17:03
Eruaran	I'll wait till it tanks then, and buy shares in Red Hat at bargain basement prices	Dec 03 17:04
Eruaran	:P	Dec 03 17:04
Eruaran	If I were to buy tech shares, I'd be far more optimistic about Red Hat shares than Microsoft.	Dec 03 17:05
schestowitz	Nothing is good now.	Dec 03 17:06
schestowitz	One person reckons the Dow will sink to 3k	Dec 03 17:06
schestowitz	Which is crazy, I know.	Dec 03 17:06
Eruaran	A boom is always followed by a bust.	Dec 03 17:07
Eruaran	What goes up...	Dec 03 17:07
schestowitz	http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&200...	Dec 03 17:07
schestowitz	Well..	Dec 03 17:07
schestowitz	People said that when Dow Jone descended to 11,000	Dec 03 17:07
schestowitz	You can't define bust. If you could, you'd be a prophet	Dec 03 17:08
Eruaran	Buy when no one else is buying.	Dec 03 17:08
Eruaran	When people are predicting doom and selling off cheap.	Dec 03 17:08
schestowitz	It's not that simple	Dec 03 17:09
schestowitz	It's not a zero-sum game, either.	Dec 03 17:09
schestowitz	There's commission	Dec 03 17:09
Eruaran	You target what you buy carefully.	Dec 03 17:09
schestowitz	Patents are the same, as zoobab probably knows	Dec 03 17:09
Eruaran	Then you sit on it.	Dec 03 17:09
schestowitz	The lawyers are the only winner	Dec 03 17:09
schestowitz	With investments, the establishment that includes bankers is the winner.	Dec 03 17:09
Eruaran	I am speaking in general terms of course.	Dec 03 17:10
schestowitz	People just 'play' with their money. The drinks may be free though.	Dec 03 17:10
schestowitz	Inside information is the only way to succeed.	Dec 03 17:10
schestowitz	This happens all the time and sometimes reported too	Dec 03 17:10
schestowitz	The SEC does nothing	Dec 03 17:10
schestowitz	As an investors, you get screwed by people who know when the stock will rise and fall.	Dec 03 17:11
schestowitz	They can game it too, e.g. using buybacks and pubnlic remarks.	Dec 03 17:11
Eruaran	Red Hats stock is undervalued.	Dec 03 17:11
schestowitz	Google.. the WINDOWS-ONLY company.. again... http://www.download.com/8301-2...	Dec 03 17:12
schestowitz	That's where MinceR comes in and curses Googlesoft	Dec 03 17:12
MinceR	:)	Dec 03 17:12
schestowitz	"The app is currently Windows-only and requires Google Desktop version 5 or higher, leaving Mac and Linux users of Google Desktop out in the cold."	Dec 03 17:12
Eruaran	With Novell and Oracle gunning for Red Hat's business, Red Hat has increased its share.	Dec 03 17:12
MinceR	i don't think my cursing is necessary	Dec 03 17:12
MinceR	the evilness of google is well-known here	Dec 03 17:13
Eruaran	If corps like Oracle can't put a dent in your business, you are in a strong position.	Dec 03 17:13
schestowitz	Ryan Paul is peddling some more de Icaza toys today:	Dec 03 17:14
schestowitz	http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/200...	Dec 03 17:14
*Grummy (n=grummy@152.159.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 03 17:16
schestowitz	"Requirements that Internet cafes in a southern Chinese city install Chinese-developed operating systems are raising new concerns over cyber snooping by authorities, a U.S. government-funded radio station reported Wednesday." < http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeq... >	Dec 03 17:21
schestowitz	http://www.computerworld.com/action/article... They recommend their own Linux binaries	Dec 03 17:22
schestowitz	http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/240480/andr... "Nokia has admitted Linux could take centre stage on future high-end handsets, but has dismissed adopting Android."	Dec 03 17:24
Eruaran	cya later guys, gtg	Dec 03 17:25
schestowitz	Nokia is adamant that Symbian is not abandoned, but it spent so much money on it... and Qt	Dec 03 17:26
schestowitz	Nokia should start a marketing blitz for KDE. :-)	Dec 03 17:26
schestowitz	TV adverts with Plasma and Marble	Dec 03 17:27
MinceR	they could start with LGPLv3-ing Qt	Dec 03 17:27
MinceR	so that people won't have to worry about what they do to Qt in the future.	Dec 03 17:27
schestowitz	The Qtokia DRM stack.	Dec 03 17:28
schestowitz	http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/y... (Yahoo jumps as ex-AOL chief reportedly eyes bid)	Dec 03 17:33
schestowitz	AOL is not an O/S or browser vendor anymore (not after Netscape discontinuation), so it's not bad news	Dec 03 17:34
*miked (n=miked@cgresd-fw-har.inet.cgresd.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 03 17:34
schestowitz	INTERESTING: "Patent Hawk" lawsuit was an inside job, says Microsoft < http://thepriorart.typepad.com/the_prior_art/... >	Dec 03 17:37
schestowitz	'Odom gamely admitted that Microsoft had been his client for years. "They had every opportunity for friendly discussion," he wrote.'	Dec 03 17:37
schestowitz	The Day The Web Went Dead < http://www.forbes.com/technology/2008/12/01/cog... >	Dec 03 17:45
*[H]omer (n=[H]omer@amsterdam.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 03 17:47
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omer		Dec 03 17:47
schestowitz	from _doug to ReverseDRM:<@insomnia> it only takes three commands to install Gentoo	Dec 03 17:58
schestowitz	<@insomnia> cfdisk /dev/hda && mkfs.xfs /dev/hda1 && mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/gentoo/ && chroot /mnt/gentoo/ && env-update && . /etc/profile && emerge sync && cd /usr/portage && scripts/bootsrap.sh && emerge system && emerge vim && vi /etc/fstab && emerge gentoo-dev-sources ..	Dec 03 17:58
schestowitz	.. && cd /usr/src/linux && make menuconfig && make install modules_install && emerge gnome mozilla-firefox openoffice && emerge grub && cp /boot/grub/grub.conf.sample /boot/grub/grub.conf && vi /boot/grub/grub.conf && grub && init 6 [ http://bash.org/?464385 ]	Dec 03 17:59
twitter	How depressions work for most people: You lose your job, your savings become worthless but you are forced to sell them anyway to pay your mortgage. Eventually, the bank takes your house and things get worse from there.	Dec 03 18:02
schestowitz	In relation to what is it said?	Dec 03 18:03
twitter	did not check out planet B, just read some buy low sell high strategy above.	Dec 03 18:07
schestowitz	Here in the UK it appears to be "Work in Progress"(R)	Dec 03 18:07
schestowitz	One person's opinion crown Ubuntu? http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/enterprise/2008...	Dec 03 18:31
twitter	Here's good proof that G. Michaels is one of my Slashdot trolls. http://slashdot.org/~dedazo/j...	Dec 03 18:36
schestowitz	http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story...	Dec 03 18:38
schestowitz	"But then I know that Microsoft is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to protect their image and to get _their_ story told. Remember, it was Microsoft who hounded a magazine chief editor to have a story told about one of their new projects. When the editor did assign the article to be written and a writer assigned, it was later found out that Microsoft assigned over a dozen Microsoft employees to this writer."	Dec 03 18:38
schestowitz	"They preplanned phone conversations, passed scripts around so everyone was on the same page, invited the writer to their site and took real good care that the _Microsoft_ version of the project was what was written. But in this case, they made one mistake and that was they accidentally included the writer in one of their planning emails."	Dec 03 18:38
schestowitz	Also today: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3...	Dec 03 18:38
schestowitz	"Astroturfing, opinion shaping, advertising, paid endorsements, even techniques like elevator marketing at any IT trade show - "Hey Bob, you should see what Microsoft is showing off at their booth!", "Yeah I have - they own the market". Don't even get me started about Microsoft's ample bag of dirty tricks and influence purchasing. "	Dec 03 18:39
twitter	I heard that kind of thing at a national medical meeting.	Dec 03 18:40
schestowitz	Slashdot reposted/edit this story 2 days ago: http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08...	Dec 03 18:40
schestowitz	Could they have changed the tags?	Dec 03 18:40
schestowitz	They were caught changing the vistalog tags, IIRC. I have it somewhere in BN	Dec 03 18:41
schestowitz	Can't get cahce for it, although I logged off.	Dec 03 18:43
schestowitz	http://64.233.183.132/search?q=cache:...	Dec 03 18:43
schestowitz	30 Nov: http://64.233.183.132/search?q...	Dec 03 18:43
schestowitz	This one works. For the diffs	Dec 03 18:43
schestowitz	Remember how Enderle, O'Gara and company told us that SCO was sure to win? I wonder how many people have emailed them to say, 'I told you so.'	Dec 03 18:45
schestowitz	{quote from /. above} I can't find the differences... not yet	Dec 03 18:46
schestowitz	http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?l... "Based on my readings of eWeek --- which is more fancifully known as eMisinformed --- I maintain that eWeek is, without question, the worst source for Linux News available on the internet."	Dec 03 18:54
schestowitz	"Based on my readings of Jason Brooks --- which is more fancifully known as Bribed by Microsoft --- I maintain that Jason Brooks is, without question, the worst source for Linux News available on the internet."	Dec 03 18:55
schestowitz	NOVL releases results tomorrow < http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/11... >. I need to think how to approach their PR lies. They are cooking the books and they admit this.	Dec 03 19:13
schestowitz	Linux News Desk=Maureen O'Gara. It used to be just .NETDJ... now she's nymshifting again.	Dec 03 19:34
schestowitz	Turns out Libya has a Linux site now: http://fossil.ly/linuxday	Dec 03 19:55
trmanco	http://www.pcworld.com/article/154735/wi...	Dec 03 20:03
schestowitz	Yup	Dec 03 20:05
schestowitz	I have it as a reference here [1]: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/03/mi...	Dec 03 20:05
trmanco	it is old	Dec 03 20:08
trmanco	from 1 december	Dec 03 20:08
trmanco	I'm catching up with the news today	Dec 03 20:09
*miked has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))		Dec 03 20:13
trmanco	LOL	Dec 03 20:21
trmanco	"This tool only runs on Windows as it is using the Groupwise COM APIs to fetch the calendar data."	Dec 03 20:21
schestowitz	Did you see that too?	Dec 03 20:22
trmanco	seeing it now	Dec 03 20:22
trmanco	reading it *	Dec 03 20:22
schestowitz	It might be handy for people who read his blog	Dec 03 20:22
schestowitz	Although I doubt Microsoft employees migrate to Google Mail.	Dec 03 20:23
*kentma1 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))		Dec 03 20:23
trmanco	lol	Dec 03 20:23
trmanco	Moonlight 1	Dec 03 20:23
trmanco	:\|	Dec 03 20:23
trmanco	ok	Dec 03 20:24
trmanco	I'm getting sick of this	Dec 03 20:24
trmanco	3 posts talking and using Microshaft's junkware	Dec 03 20:24
schestowitz	I'll write about it later	Dec 03 20:24
schestowitz	Novell is lying again.	Dec 03 20:24
schestowitz	I've found much more than 3	Dec 03 20:25
trmanco	well, just yesterday and today	Dec 03 20:25
trmanco	in 2 days	Dec 03 20:25
trmanco	let me confim this	Dec 03 20:25
*nulled (i=1813ed2f@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-627776c2501c8461) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 03 20:26
nulled	FUCK MICROSOFT	Dec 03 20:26
schestowitz	http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-red-hat-cancels-pa... "She declined to say how much money Red Hat will donate, but it's enough to pay for about 800,000 meals at food banks run by Feeding America. In the Triangle, the group runs the Food Bank of Eastern and Central North Carolina and the Inter-Faith Food Shuttle."	Dec 03 20:26
trmanco	yes 3 on the same day	Dec 03 20:26
nulled	FUCK MICROSOFT	Dec 03 20:26
schestowitz	Hi, neighborlee. Hi to you too.	Dec 03 20:26
schestowitz	Oops.	Dec 03 20:26
trmanco	2nd of December yesterday btw	Dec 03 20:26
schestowitz	nulled: I got it.	Dec 03 20:26
nulled	ok	Dec 03 20:26
schestowitz	What else is new?	Dec 03 20:26
trmanco	what is up with "Fuck Microsoft"?	Dec 03 20:27
nulled	Know what pissed me off just now?	Dec 03 20:27
schestowitz	I dunno	Dec 03 20:27
nulled	http://www.moreinterop.com/Customers/Walmart.aspx?a...	Dec 03 20:27
nulled	Microsoft will deliver SUSE€® Linux Enterprise Server subscription certificates to Wal-Mart for use in Wal-Mart's IT infrastructure	Dec 03 20:27
trmanco	Awesome -> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/12/...	Dec 03 20:27
nulled	Microsoft will deliver OPEN SOURCE??? WTF???	Dec 03 20:28
schestowitz	WalMart is 'MS fort'	Dec 03 20:28
schestowitz	The management there shares a connection with MS	Dec 03 20:28
trmanco	don't go to walmart anymore	Dec 03 20:28
schestowitz	BMW is another company that's eerily close to Microsoft.	Dec 03 20:28
nulled	FUCK MICROSOFT	Dec 03 20:28
trmanco	OpenOffice.org saves you €£30Million/day… : http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/12...	Dec 03 20:29
trmanco	BMW can do a lot better with their engines	Dec 03 20:29
schestowitz	It's corporate kiss-ass though	Dec 03 20:30
nulled	later guys... get blogging about how MS is convicted monopolist... and stop wasting time in here...	Dec 03 20:30
nulled	this is my blog: http://webhostedservices.com/blog/	Dec 03 20:30
nulled	later	Dec 03 20:30
schestowitz	They do Microsoft a favour by buying Linux patent royalties (Novell calls it "coupons" or "vouchers")	Dec 03 20:30
schestowitz	Ideas are formed here.	Dec 03 20:30
trmanco	I've heard (family, friends, etc) that those BMW engines usually "crack" with little time of usage	Dec 03 20:31
nulled	ok	Dec 03 20:31
schestowitz	Nice blog	Dec 03 20:31
schestowitz	I'll subscribe now.	Dec 03 20:31
schestowitz	Just don'\t wrote the F word there.	Dec 03 20:31
trmanco	cool	Dec 03 20:31
trmanco	subed too	Dec 03 20:31
trmanco	schestowitz, there is an F word there already	Dec 03 20:32
trmanco	:-P	Dec 03 20:32
trmanco	http://webhostedservices.com/blog/?p=35	Dec 03 20:32
schestowitz	What's that?	Dec 03 20:32
nulled	oh boy	Dec 03 20:32
schestowitz	trmanco: oh, well, with F word that'll be off Groklaw's radar. :-)	Dec 03 20:33
trmanco	lol	Dec 03 20:33
nulled	ok Ill try to remove em.. but what I write is pretty much rehash of what I Find	Dec 03 20:33
nulled	groklaw baby	Dec 03 20:33
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trmanco	http://blog.mozilla.com/metrics/2008/12/01/fir...	Dec 03 20:34
schestowitz	What's the soruce?	Dec 03 20:34
schestowitz	I know about this south asia thing..	Dec 03 20:34
schestowitz	Firefox is small in China though.	Dec 03 20:34
schestowitz	Microsoft has them pwned because of the govt. kickbacks with the Man in Sweater	Dec 03 20:35
schestowitz	Heh.	Dec 03 20:37
schestowitz	Someone in the comments just posted a link to: Lead Windows developer bugged by security < http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/x... >	Dec 03 20:38
schestowitz	" Our products just aren't engineered for security."	Dec 03 20:38
schestowitz	That goes into my quites files	Dec 03 20:38
schestowitz	*quotes	Dec 03 20:38
trmanco	lol	Dec 03 20:38
schestowitz	Sun is pimping an anti-Linux pro-UNIX article: http://sunflash.sun.com/articles/129/...	Dec 03 20:44
MinceR	business as usual for sun	Dec 03 20:47
schestowitz	$un	Dec 03 20:47
schestowitz	$uninstall	Dec 03 20:47
schestowitz	$ sudo !!	Dec 03 20:47
MinceR	:)	Dec 03 20:48
MinceR	they try to parade as FLOSS supporters yet they try to harm the most popular FLOSS OS wherever they can.	Dec 03 20:48
*mib_pwehqs (i=525fec63@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dec666b8ac0d3ca9) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 03 20:50
schestowitz	Yes, it's a tricky situation	Dec 03 20:51
schestowitz	There was that "unplug a penguin" E-mail passing around.	Dec 03 20:51
*mib_pwehqs has quit (Client Quit)		Dec 03 20:53
MinceR	there's nothing tricky about it -- they could let [open]slowlaris compete based on its actual merits	Dec 03 20:54
trmanco	http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=ar...	Dec 03 20:54
MinceR	or let it die.	Dec 03 20:54
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trmanco	http://i33.tinypic.com/2cyfmdv.jpg	Dec 03 21:18
trmanco	Windows source code leaked	Dec 03 21:18
schestowitz	Isn't it old?	Dec 03 21:19
trmanco	nop	Dec 03 21:19
trmanco	this one is new	Dec 03 21:19
trmanco	never seen it before	Dec 03 21:19
schestowitz	It says Tiger	Dec 03 21:19
schestowitz	It still feels like I saw it before.	Dec 03 21:19
trmanco	oh ok	Dec 03 21:19
trmanco	It is new for me tho	Dec 03 21:20
trmanco	class Windows7 extends WindowsVista implements BetterPR {	Dec 03 21:20
trmanco	/ Pay up suckers!	Dec 03 21:20
trmanco	}	Dec 03 21:20
schestowitz	Oh, I see....	Dec 03 21:25
schestowitz	They should uncomment it when it comes out of beta	Dec 03 21:26
trmanco	lol	Dec 03 21:40
trmanco	they won't	Dec 03 21:40
schestowitz	http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/12/03/st...	Dec 03 21:41
schestowitz	http://techdirt.com/articles/20081... blaming CNN for potentially giving away their location to the terrorists. It was a hit among CNN-hater [ ..] Sure, it's embarrassing to make a mistake -- especially one that ends up getting so much attention. But simply "disappearing" the story and pretending it never happened is a dreadful solution. If anything, leave the original story up with a clear retraction placed at th	Dec 03 21:47
schestowitz	e top."	Dec 03 21:47
trmanco	crap	Dec 03 21:49
trmanco	I made a mistake	Dec 03 21:49
trmanco	OSS software, is this correct?	Dec 03 21:49
trmanco	open source software software :\|	Dec 03 21:50
trmanco	oh well	Dec 03 21:50
trmanco	http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linu...	Dec 03 21:51
schestowitz	Trolls-filled thread.	Dec 03 21:52
trmanco	hey	Dec 03 21:53
schestowitz	Lots of it will he incorrect regarddless.	Dec 03 21:53
trmanco	I'm not a troll	Dec 03 21:53
schestowitz	I know.	Dec 03 21:53
trmanco	neither nessuno	Dec 03 21:53
schestowitz	I know.	Dec 03 21:53
trmanco	cork isn't too I think	Dec 03 21:53
trmanco	I wonder why one of the trolls messages aren't being archived	Dec 03 21:54
trmanco	it has to be for some reason	Dec 03 21:54
schestowitz	"G8, Berlusconi: Propose to regulate the Internet [...] The G8 has as its task the regulation of financial markets, there is no internet for international exploitation. I think the next G8 can bring to the table a proposal for a regulation of the Internet system," said Berlusconi... [PJ: Computer translation.] http://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php	Dec 03 22:00
schestowitz	"[PJ: Did you know you could do jail time for violating a web site's terms of use by pretending to be someone else and then sending an "I love you" message? According to this trial, unless it's overturned, you can go to jail for a year and pay a $100,000 fine for each "I love you" message. Have we totally lost our minds?]"	Dec 03 22:02
trmanco	http://digg.com/users/migue...	Dec 03 22:02
trmanco	this can't be real	Dec 03 22:02
schestowitz	I wonder what punishment one gets for IMing an "I hate you message". The chair..?	Dec 03 22:03
schestowitz	http://digg.com/users/migueldeicaza	Dec 03 22:03
twitter	sweaty b chair	Dec 03 22:03
schestowitz	Maybe the second one is a booster	Dec 03 22:03
twitter	fake miguels are usually ugly	Dec 03 22:04
twitter	M$ divide and conquer	Dec 03 22:04
trmanco	grrr	Dec 03 22:05
trmanco	http://digg.com/users/deicazah	Dec 03 22:05
trmanco	another one	Dec 03 22:05
schestowitz	Nevada tops "What States Have The Fastest Internet Speeds?" <http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008... >	Dec 03 22:05
twitter	they seek to destroy communications	Dec 03 22:06
twitter	miguels not nevada	Dec 03 22:06
schestowitz	Is there more than one in /.?	Dec 03 22:06
schestowitz	One faker.	Dec 03 22:06
twitter	there are several.	Dec 03 22:06
schestowitz	Yikes.	Dec 03 22:07
twitter	I've got at least one in my troll zoo.	Dec 03 22:07
schestowitz	One was Enough to cause damage.	Dec 03 22:07
twitter	and one fake Bruce too	Dec 03 22:07
schestowitz	That's like finding out that there's a mini-Ballmer (with a finger in the mouth)	Dec 03 22:07
twitter	Perens, not that Byfield clown	Dec 03 22:07
schestowitz	I have some faker in Digg	Dec 03 22:07
schestowitz	But their accounts get terminated	Dec 03 22:08
trmanco	http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2...	Dec 03 22:08
twitter	there are half a dozen fake twitters that spew all sorts of filth	Dec 03 22:08
schestowitz	They wouldn't eliminate this aggravator: http://digg.com/users/amiga501	Dec 03 22:08
schestowitz	That account has anti-FOSS items, no activity recently.	Dec 03 22:09
schestowitz	Used to be vile attacks on me in the comment.	Dec 03 22:09
twitter	there's no end to the number of nyms people can create with a botnet	Dec 03 22:10
schestowitz	Item on choice is now associating RMS and pedophilia. There used to be Reiser murder stuff in there.	Dec 03 22:10
schestowitz	Very, very vile shills. Like animals..	Dec 03 22:10
twitter	They tried to call me a Nazi.	Dec 03 22:10
twitter	It was crude. They could not get the language right, but other nyms pointed back at it relentlessly.	Dec 03 22:11
schestowitz	That's cheap	Dec 03 22:11
schestowitz	It can get worse.	Dec 03 22:11
schestowitz	I had people fake my account and avatar.	Dec 03 22:11
schestowitz	Then tried to declare me gay in front page items of Digg	Dec 03 22:12
schestowitz	Libellous smear campaigns.	Dec 03 22:12
schestowitz	These are some of the terminated accounts.	Dec 03 22:12
schestowitz	Digg lets itself be a cesspool.	Dec 03 22:12
twitter	Don't blame the victim.	Dec 03 22:12
twitter	Things will calm down when M$ runs out of money to pay these asses.	Dec 03 22:13
twitter	bbl, it's time for a walk.	Dec 03 22:13
twitter	before I go, I thought I'd share this bullshit. http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft... I've been seeing more of this tartakoff guy.	Dec 03 22:15
twitter	It's amazing that people parade "get the facts" crap.	Dec 03 22:15
schestowitz	It's 2 YEARS OLD!!	Dec 03 22:17
schestowitz	http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1746	Dec 03 22:17
schestowitz	They ran out of meterial	Dec 03 22:17
*trmanco cya		Dec 03 22:18
schestowitz	Give me 3 mins and I'll do a post.	Dec 03 22:19
schestowitz	Done. Enjoy: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/03/mic...	Dec 03 22:24
schestowitz	I left this comment in the shill's blog: "2007 called. They want the study back"	Dec 03 22:25
schestowitz	Microsoft: "Quick\|!!! VAPOURware!!!11!!1" http://www.pcworld.com/article/15...	Dec 03 22:32
schestowitz	Denmark still assume that everything that passes though the wires is owned by thee US MAFIAA http://www.pcworld.com/article/...	Dec 03 22:32
schestowitz	Mind you, the Iowa antitrust material came though torrent	Dec 03 22:33
schestowitz	This is not only an example of legitimate use, but MOREOVER an example where torrent helps FIGHT crime, not perpetuate it like the moguls love to argue.	Dec 03 22:34
schestowitz	Nokia tries to artifically hype up Symbian.. http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Sym...	Dec 03 22:42
schestowitz	Microsoft Partner Group source FUDs the enterprise http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/itlead/...	Dec 03 22:46
*xISO-ZWT (i=41c7bd06@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7b506402bebcb5d0) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 03 22:53
schestowitz	http://www.builderau.com.au/strategy/businessmanage... "How does Google control its destiny with open source? DiBona: Basically, we use it."	Dec 03 22:54
schestowitz	Woman: how do you continue to cooking? Husband: I eat it.	Dec 03 22:55
xISO-ZWT	The OOXML post was about document format, how did the comments wind up getting so off topic?	Dec 03 23:02
schestowitz	Alex, IIRC	Dec 03 23:06
schestowitz	Typical though.	Dec 03 23:06
schestowitz	This dude < http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2... > spreads a lot of pro-Microsoft stuff and now he appends FOSS FUD to some short post.	Dec 03 23:07
xISO-ZWT	Is computerweekly tied to computerworld.uk?	Dec 03 23:12
schestowitz	I think not.	Dec 03 23:15
schestowitz	Not IDG	Dec 03 23:15
schestowitz	It's part of a British network (IDG is US-based)	Dec 03 23:15
schestowitz	"Registered Office: Quadrant House, The Quadrant, Sutton, Surrey, SM2 5AS." < http://www.computerweekly.com/StaticPages... >	Dec 03 23:16
schestowitz	http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-s... "Obama's official "transition site", change.gov, lists many intended policy changes. None of them has to do with recovering the freedoms that Bush took away from us. Contrast the large section on "Homeland Security" with the completely absent section on "Civil Liberties"."	Dec 03 23:19
schestowitz	He also points to: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008... (Don't wait for the planet to go up in smoke); http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica... (Obama and the surveillance state)	Dec 03 23:20
xISO-ZWT	The more things change, the more they stay the same. GN B-Shift just got here.	Dec 03 23:22
schestowitz	There's another issue..	Dec 03 23:23
schestowitz	For all I can tell, GWB is making many last-minute changes (as in "change") which are hugely damaging.	Dec 03 23:23
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*neighborlee has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Dec 03 23:34
schestowitz	"The tech press goes berserk at every utterance from Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates, and every word emitted by the Redmond PR machine is dutifully repeated and canonized. Except in stories like these. The article is brief and doesn't give much information, and it links to two other lengthier news stories that are just as befuddled."	Dec 03 23:39
schestowitz	'"Our military is dependent upon commodity desktops whose software shares an enormous amount of DNA with systems that sit on every workplace in the planet." Now who do you suppose they are referring to? Apple? Ubuntu? AmigaOS? Solaris? FreeBSD?' http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/20...	Dec 03 23:39
schestowitz	German Federal Government to Support ODF < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/12/german-fe... >	Dec 03 23:42

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 3rd, 2008

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