| schestowitz | >> "Oh I have IDC actually sending the draft of thier TCO report to MS for review and comment as well" | Jan 03 13:02 |
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| schestowitz | mib_o21sxr: which would that be? | Jan 03 13:02 |
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| schestowitz | I know of one where Kevin Turner, IIRC, tries to gag a sponsorship disclosure. | Jan 03 13:03 |
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| MinceR | actually no apple products are work devices | Jan 03 13:03 |
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| MinceR | they only make toys | Jan 03 13:03 |
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| schestowitz | Is this related to the "developing markets" study? | Jan 03 13:03 |
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| MinceR | Fisher-Price My First Computer http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.ph... | Jan 03 13:03 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* http://curiousphotos.blogspot.com/2008/03/... | Jan 03 13:05 |
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| schestowitz | I was trying to find some Mac ad, but this one came up | Jan 03 13:05 |
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| MinceR | http://www.sys-con.com/node/45218 | Jan 03 13:10 |
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| mib_o21sxr | hah don't get me started on O'Gara | Jan 03 13:12 |
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| mib_o21sxr | I have an email from MS where they specifically say she will plant an unattributed story for them | Jan 03 13:13 |
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| mib_o21sxr | and where she will ask questions for them so it "looks better" | Jan 03 13:13 |
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| MinceR | lol | Jan 03 13:13 |
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| mib_o21sxr | she's bought and paid for | Jan 03 13:13 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Jan 03 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | Someone mailed me today with a reference to her | Jan 03 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | Mostly BS of course. | Jan 03 13:14 |
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| MinceR | the article i linked isn't pro-m$ though | Jan 03 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | But it's marked "PERSONAL", so I can't share | Jan 03 13:15 |
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| *schestowitz organises some gems about OLPC | Jan 03 13:15 |
| mib_o21sxr | i can share the MS mail using her name | Jan 03 13:15 |
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| mib_o21sxr | hold one | Jan 03 13:15 |
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| schestowitz | I have 4 posts about MS coming. | Jan 03 13:15 |
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| schestowitz | I just need to tody them up | Jan 03 13:16 |
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| schestowitz | *tidy | Jan 03 13:16 |
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| schestowitz | mib_o21sxr: I wrote about ittwice | Jan 03 13:16 |
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| schestowitz | I know the person who sent it to Groklaw too | Jan 03 13:16 |
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| mib_o21sxr | http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase... | Jan 03 13:16 |
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| mib_o21sxr | oh :( i didn't see your write up on it | Jan 03 13:16 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/04/planting... | Jan 03 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/03/mi... | Jan 03 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | MOG of Hollywood: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/10/maur... | Jan 03 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | microsoft.com was down. :-S | Jan 03 13:18 |
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| mib_o21sxr | you have the IDC report being mailed to microsoft for review before being published | Jan 03 13:18 |
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| mib_o21sxr | ? | Jan 03 13:18 |
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| oiaohm | That would need more careful inspection. Was MS the only one they sent it to for review. mib_o21sxr Because if they sent to many parities from both sides it would be valid and above board. | Jan 03 13:20 |
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| mib_o21sxr | http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsu... | Jan 03 13:21 |
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| mib_o21sxr | what do you think? | Jan 03 13:21 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i also have "I hate to put it like this, but at this point, IDC is done negotiating with us. We have moved them quite a bit already, but they are now holding the line, saying that if we want the names of their ‘big’ analysts on the report this is it." | Jan 03 13:21 |
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| mib_o21sxr | in a different email | Jan 03 13:21 |
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| schestowitz | Woo. This is new to me. | Jan 03 13:22 |
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| schestowitz | That also kills IFG's credibility | Jan 03 13:22 |
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| mib_o21sxr | oh? hooray i have some more email on that IDC report then | Jan 03 13:22 |
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| schestowitz | They are denialists for Microsoft | Jan 03 13:22 |
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| mib_o21sxr | hold one | Jan 03 13:22 |
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| schestowitz | Advertisers, whetever... they have LOTS of new sites. | Jan 03 13:22 |
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| mib_o21sxr | http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsu... | Jan 03 13:22 |
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| schestowitz | IDC is a shill for Microsoft for many other reasons that I covered | Jan 03 13:23 |
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| schestowitz | See for example: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09... | Jan 03 13:23 |
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| schestowitz | And http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/14/id... | Jan 03 13:23 |
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| schestowitz | That one from Johnson I've seen before | Jan 03 13:25 |
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| oiaohm | That first documents alone is not enough to win case. Problem you would have to be sure they had not contacted other parties for review. Action is suspect but that is as far as it goes. | Jan 03 13:29 |
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| oiaohm | Secound one if the matching document has had that MS funded it removed that is a real breach of standards. | Jan 03 13:29 |
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| *Axz has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jan 03 13:30 |
| oiaohm | There is a reason why in a court case many documents are presented mib_o21sxr. Because many times they are needed on combination to prove action in anti-trust case. | Jan 03 13:32 |
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| oiaohm | Yes hard bit is making sure you have worked out jigsaw so your own ass is covered. | Jan 03 13:32 |
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| mib_o21sxr | right ... mainly I'm focused on: http://meandubuntu.wordpress.c... | Jan 03 13:33 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, that second one I documented in like 50 posts of mine :-) | Jan 03 13:33 |
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| mib_o21sxr | but i keep a note of any interesting "other stuff" to pass along | Jan 03 13:33 |
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| mib_o21sxr | like the OLPC one and so forth | Jan 03 13:33 |
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| schestowitz | In face, afterwards it reached the 'press' too | Jan 03 13:33 |
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| schestowitz | Bmighty | Jan 03 13:33 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i know most of it is old and known, but maybe sometimes there is something new in the exhibits | Jan 03 13:34 |
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| oiaohm | Interlinks between the documents are important at times to get there context mib_o21sxr | Jan 03 13:34 |
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| schestowitz | That's a very good colelction | Jan 03 13:35 |
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| mib_o21sxr | thanks! | Jan 03 13:35 |
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| MinceR | "the MacBook Air is easily the most expensive, worst value for the dollar computer I have ever owned--and I have a Cube sitting in a closet somewhere." | Jan 03 13:35 |
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| MinceR | sounds like somebody who doesn't learn from his mistakes | Jan 03 13:35 |
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| schestowitz | Jim Gray (Microsoft Research): "Linux is a cult that captures the best-and-brightest kids." | Jan 03 13:36 |
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| schestowitz | He died about 6 months ago | Jan 03 13:36 |
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| MinceR | the others should follow his example | Jan 03 13:36 |
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| MinceR | it's funny how these cultists are all-too-eager to call everyone who disagrees with their cult a "cultist" | Jan 03 13:37 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Jan 03 13:37 |
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| schestowitz | Hypocrites | Jan 03 13:37 |
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| MinceR | i know a microsoft cleric who has done the same to me recently | Jan 03 13:37 |
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| mib_o21sxr | Yeah, that is one of my pet peeves, trying to illustrate that a bit there | Jan 03 13:37 |
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| schestowitz | A government delegates compared Microsoft to "Scientology cult" | Jan 03 13:37 |
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| schestowitz | *delegate | Jan 03 13:37 |
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| mib_o21sxr | That's why it's important FLOSS activists try to stick closer to facts and solid, logical arguments | Jan 03 13:38 |
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| schestowitz | mib_o21sxr: I'll use these to cover the stuff more extensively, with attrib. | Jan 03 13:38 |
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| mib_o21sxr | please feel free | Jan 03 13:38 |
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| schestowitz | It's a goldmine for oldie | Jan 03 13:38 |
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| schestowitz | *oldies. I have some in http://boycottnovell.com/comes-io... | Jan 03 13:39 |
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| schestowitz | You'll find many additions highlighted ther.e | Jan 03 13:39 |
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| mib_o21sxr | cool | Jan 03 13:40 |
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| oiaohm | Please make sure the documents you are using provide enough evidence not to bite mib_021sxr. We need researchers and collectors of this kind of information. Not getting themselfs into trouble because the document alone does not provide the enough to prove wrong doing. | Jan 03 13:43 |
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| mib_o21sxr | Well I'm not trying to prove anything there, just giving quotes and my thoughts on them | Jan 03 13:43 |
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| mib_o21sxr | do you think there is some danger there? i'm new to this and open to comments | Jan 03 13:44 |
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| oiaohm | Quotes on something badly out of context can get you in trouble mib_o21sxr. | Jan 03 13:44 |
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| oiaohm | I am not saying don't do it. Just be sure of your position before risking foot in mouth. | Jan 03 13:44 |
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| mib_o21sxr | Well, I link to the source for every single quote | Jan 03 13:44 |
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| oiaohm | Its just care. Some cases a document can seam to point one way when it is the other way just due to context. | Jan 03 13:46 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i see your point. I'm sort of basing my effort off of ESR's on the Halloween memos so I might adopt some of his language | Jan 03 13:47 |
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| mib_o21sxr | for a little for CYA | Jan 03 13:47 |
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| mib_o21sxr | *a little more CYA | Jan 03 13:47 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, I link to them | Jan 03 13:50 |
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| schestowitz | But we need OCR | Jan 03 13:50 |
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| MinceR | m$ cultists don't care about facts and logic | Jan 03 13:50 |
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| schestowitz | I'll ask readers for help | Jan 03 13:50 |
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| MinceR | they're write-only | Jan 03 13:50 |
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| oiaohm | Classic exampe of context. Is australian wine makers though french wine makers calling there wine machine like. Turn out the french were prasing on constant quality the Australian were producting. | Jan 03 13:50 |
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| oiaohm | and the Australian though it whas being critical. | Jan 03 13:51 |
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| schestowitz | I'm just rechecking the arguments in the mail | Jan 03 13:52 |
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| schestowitz | I got the perfect photo now. | Jan 03 13:53 |
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| oiaohm | MinceR worst part I find lot of so called MS cultists think they know the facts are are following logic. | Jan 03 13:53 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.sxc.hu/photo/684875 | Jan 03 13:53 |
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| oiaohm | Why logical argument with correct facts does win against them. | Jan 03 13:53 |
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| mib_o21sxr | it might not win against them - but *nothing* will win against them - it *will* win against truly neutral and interested parties though | Jan 03 13:55 |
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| oiaohm | Its sorting the two out mib_o21sxr | Jan 03 13:55 |
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| schestowitz | OK, I'm too negligent to write much that's original. I'll just post some bits of the convoersation | Jan 03 13:55 |
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| mib_o21sxr | that's why good arguments are more important than "scoring points" | Jan 03 13:55 |
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| mib_o21sxr | oiaohm: sure it's hard to sort out, but I'm saying it doesn't matter, just make the best solid logical argument you can and then leave it at that | Jan 03 13:56 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i know it's hard, but it is effective in the log run | Jan 03 13:56 |
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| mib_o21sxr | (i tell myself anyway :) ) | Jan 03 13:56 |
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| mib_o21sxr | (it's hard to fight the human desire to get the last word in, I know - i'm as guilty as anyone is of it) | Jan 03 13:57 |
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| oiaohm | A truly neutral party could have always gone to a Microsoft Confernece or hang around with the wrong crowd and picked up wrong ideas. Funny enough most are that. | Jan 03 13:57 |
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| oiaohm | You do see extreamest on the Linux side created the same way. | Jan 03 13:57 |
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| schestowitz | I'll post it as I continue editing (it's rough... like a draft). | Jan 03 13:57 |
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| schestowitz | Tell me how to imrove it (or typos) as I go through it editing: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/03/... | Jan 03 13:58 |
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| mib_o21sxr | extremists on "our side" is true, and it's a problem too - because it's like the news where they always get the most ignorant colorful local person to interview | Jan 03 13:58 |
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| mib_o21sxr | it's a quick way to paint a whole community as "zealots" or insane or whatever | Jan 03 13:59 |
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| mib_o21sxr | floss doesn't have the slick PR and endless propaganda monies that MS has though | Jan 03 13:59 |
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| mib_o21sxr | so we have to be smarter | Jan 03 13:59 |
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| mib_o21sxr | (again just my developing philosophy) | Jan 03 13:59 |
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| oiaohm | All sides have zealots. If you look far enough you can still find c64 ones. | Jan 03 14:01 |
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| mib_o21sxr | ha true that ... for sure if you say amiga zealots | Jan 03 14:01 |
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| schestowitz | mib_o21sxr: they open their mouths at confs | Jan 03 14:02 |
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| schestowitz | I've recorded some stuff from OSBC | Jan 03 14:02 |
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| schestowitz | The Microsoft staff is saying nasty things about us 'thief', but the press just quotes PR depts. | Jan 03 14:02 |
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| mib_o21sxr | yup no doubt | Jan 03 14:03 |
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| oiaohm | Floss has really had a fairly slick PR system. | Jan 03 14:03 |
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| mib_o21sxr | I wish I had the money to fund a "FLOSS PR" project, but we have to make do with what we can | Jan 03 14:03 |
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| oiaohm | Just its a bit hard to push a product into a market where its not ready. | Jan 03 14:03 |
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| oiaohm | Think about all the wins Floss has had in the super computer market. | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| schestowitz | More markets too | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| oiaohm | That required PR killing all the Unix's out there. | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| schestowitz | IBM doesn't care | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| schestowitz | It markets Z series or whatever | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| schestowitz | Doesn't mater what it runs. | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| oiaohm | I would not say does not care. | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| schestowitz | The brands marketed are Novell, BIM, H-P, SGI, etc. | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| mib_o21sxr | I see what you are saying but I'm not sure I would call those *PR* wins | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| schestowitz | Linux is a pool, not a company | Jan 03 14:04 |
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| schestowitz | GNU is a scary philosophy to them. | Jan 03 14:05 |
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| oiaohm | Numbers of hours HP IBM and others put into making sure Linux runs on the hardware well. | Jan 03 14:05 |
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| oiaohm | And they to advertise it to there customers. IBM and HP both provide Linux solutions to the high end servers. | Jan 03 14:05 |
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| mib_o21sxr | yeah i can agree with that...i've seen a few good linux commercials on you tube for example | Jan 03 14:06 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i mean professional stuff | Jan 03 14:06 |
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| oiaohm | Linux is a pool catch is different sections do PR work. | Jan 03 14:06 |
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| oiaohm | So yes there are some really good PR systems around FLOSS. But unlike microsoft FLOSS can have the appearance of many parties backing FLOSS that is purely above board without having to pay anything. | Jan 03 14:07 |
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| mib_o21sxr | roy: take out the EDGI quote in the OLPC ... there's no EDGI action in there i was referencing something else | Jan 03 14:08 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i mean it is pretty much a slush fund, but it's not in play in that email | Jan 03 14:09 |
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| schestowitz | OK | Jan 03 14:09 |
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| oiaohm | Software Product be good quality for targeted market you don't have to pay PR companies. Hardware companies do it for you. | Jan 03 14:09 |
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| oiaohm | Really MS needing a Large PR department is a sign of a problem. | Jan 03 14:10 |
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| mib_o21sxr | well on the open source side, some PR will surely come that way | Jan 03 14:10 |
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| mib_o21sxr | on the straight Free Software side, we need a little help | Jan 03 14:10 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i mean i love rms, but he ain't no PR guru :) | Jan 03 14:10 |
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| schestowitz | I commented that out | Jan 03 14:10 |
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| oiaohm | RMS is a walking PR nightmare. | Jan 03 14:10 |
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| schestowitz | I did it all very fact, si it's a poor post. | Jan 03 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | I have other posts to do quickly. | Jan 03 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | RMS appeals not to a business crowd | Jan 03 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | But he can appeal to younger developers | Jan 03 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | Peter Brown's appearance probably appeases the business type. | Jan 03 14:11 |
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| oiaohm | Business Crowd equals money to do things. | Jan 03 14:11 |
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| mib_o21sxr | I have his one book Free Software: Free Society and his ideas are powerful, but unfortunately he needs some help putting them out there | Jan 03 14:12 |
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| oiaohm | RMS has great ideas but he does not have the tacked to be the front man. | Jan 03 14:12 |
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| mib_o21sxr | yeah, i agree, it's unfair, but i'm afraid that's just reality | Jan 03 14:13 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of RMS ideas are not anti-business. Just he presents them wrong. | Jan 03 14:13 |
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| MinceR | well, that's what we have Bruce Perens for :> | Jan 03 14:14 |
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| mib_o21sxr | What about Lessig? I haven't read any of his books, but his articles read well | Jan 03 14:14 |
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| oiaohm | Don't say this is bad. Show where its more profitable to do the right thing in a lot of cases and less profitable to do the bad thing long term and you win. | Jan 03 14:14 |
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| MinceR | dunno, i haven't read a lot of Lessig yet | Jan 03 14:14 |
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| MinceR | and then there's ESR, too | Jan 03 14:15 |
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| mib_o21sxr | esr/perens are too focused on open source ... ibm/red hat/etc will handle open source PR | Jan 03 14:15 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i mean Free Software PR | Jan 03 14:15 |
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| MinceR | ic | Jan 03 14:16 |
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| mib_o21sxr | not knocking those guys, just drawing a distinction | Jan 03 14:16 |
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| MinceR | i thought Perens said open source and free sw are the same thing | Jan 03 14:16 |
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| MinceR | (i know there are differences due to the differences between the OSD and the FSD) | Jan 03 14:16 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i just read a good contrast of their positions | Jan 03 14:16 |
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| mib_o21sxr | let me see if i can find it again | Jan 03 14:16 |
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| oiaohm | Perens did. He really don't see the difference. | Jan 03 14:17 |
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| mib_o21sxr | I'm thinking of his Wikipedia article, but I see it doesn't really contrast it as much as I thought | Jan 03 14:17 |
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| oiaohm | Really RMS bad PR events are basically out weight by cost savings of using open source. | Jan 03 14:18 |
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| oiaohm | For lot of hardware companies. | Jan 03 14:19 |
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| mib_o21sxr | heh, like writing off a charitable contribution for tax purposes :) | Jan 03 14:19 |
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| oiaohm | Its not like support MS was above cases of stupidity. | Jan 03 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | mib_o21sxr: Lessig is no FLOSS guy | Jan 03 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | He's a Mac user and all. | Jan 03 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | Would make a bad spreker for Free software | Jan 03 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | In fact, he DOUBTED the movement would succeed in its early days | Jan 03 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | He was wrong and he openly admitted this some months ago | Jan 03 14:22 |
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| mib_o21sxr | ah, i didn't know that ... he has some very pro-FLOSS writings | Jan 03 14:22 |
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| oiaohm | Remember some of the best speekers for Microsoft don't believe what they are saying. | Jan 03 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | ESR with his trigger-happy gun fetish..? Oh no.. :-) | Jan 03 14:22 |
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| oiaohm | Instead are cool no matter how much you try to prevoke them because of it. | Jan 03 14:23 |
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| MinceR | that gun fetish could appeal to some | Jan 03 14:23 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: Perees is concerned about Microsoft and others (CPAL) ruining open source | Jan 03 14:23 |
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| MinceR | i'm for bearing arms, for example :) | Jan 03 14:23 |
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| MinceR | if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns | Jan 03 14:23 |
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| MinceR | ...and the state which you can't trust | Jan 03 14:23 |
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| mib_o21sxr | well, peres has himself to blame for that some degree. "open" is just as easy to subvert as "free" is | Jan 03 14:23 |
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| mib_o21sxr | and it's a lot quicker to draw in people with non-idealogical motives | Jan 03 14:24 |
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| oiaohm | Australia is a good example guns are outlawed. Yes we do have less gun crime. | Jan 03 14:24 |
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| MinceR | perhaps we do need people with non-ideological motives | Jan 03 14:24 |
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| mib_o21sxr | which might be good commericially, but is poor philosophically | Jan 03 14:24 |
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| schestowitz | Perens is close to RMS; ESR is not. | Jan 03 14:24 |
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| mib_o21sxr | true, but as rms says "words matter", and perens was OK with the "free software should be called oopen souce" thing | Jan 03 14:25 |
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| mib_o21sxr | that was a mistake i think | Jan 03 14:25 |
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| mib_o21sxr | convenient and maybe even good to get things going, but still a bit of a mistake | Jan 03 14:25 |
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| oiaohm | There was a lot of arguments of the free software and open source ideas. | Jan 03 14:26 |
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| oiaohm | free implies the idea that you don't have to give anything back. | Jan 03 14:26 |
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| oiaohm | Open implies secuirty holes. | Jan 03 14:26 |
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| oiaohm | So either way both sux. | Jan 03 14:26 |
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| mib_o21sxr | true there is no good single word | Jan 03 14:26 |
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| oiaohm | I think its one of those rare cases of either wait for exceptance of you would have to create a new word completely to descibe it. | Jan 03 14:27 |
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| mib_o21sxr | i agree. the split between Free/Open hurt that as well ... although *maybe* the "FLOSS" acronymn is helping re-join things a bit | Jan 03 14:28 |
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| oiaohm | FLOSS is the create a new word solution. | Jan 03 14:29 |
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| MinceR | i think i've heard statistics where allowing gun ownership reduced crime | Jan 03 14:29 |
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| schestowitz | Libre would be good | Jan 03 14:29 |
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| MinceR | but i don't have a link :/ | Jan 03 14:29 |
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| schestowitz | Of freedom software | Jan 03 14:29 |
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| oiaohm | Here it MinceR gun crime has become rare. | Jan 03 14:29 |
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| schestowitz | Freedom != cheapness, not even in English | Jan 03 14:29 |
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| MinceR | oiaohm: there can be multiple reasons for that | Jan 03 14:30 |
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| oiaohm | Partly police policy. Carring a gun illegaly is death. | Jan 03 14:30 |
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| mib_o21sxr | "Freedom" is a better *word*, but a worse *adjective* | Jan 03 14:30 |
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| MinceR | carrying a gun illegally can occur regardless of whether you prohibit guns | Jan 03 14:31 |
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| oiaohm | Knife and baseball bat crime has gone up. | Jan 03 14:31 |
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| MinceR | you might restrict gun ownership to people who have participated in training | Jan 03 14:31 |
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| MinceR | and know how to use a gun | Jan 03 14:31 |
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| oiaohm | Secuirty guards and the like here can still have rights to carry guns. | Jan 03 14:31 |
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| oiaohm | General public is also restricted on carring knives in public. | Jan 03 14:32 |
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| MinceR | the ability to learn how to use a gun isn't restricted to security guards and armed forces | Jan 03 14:32 |
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| oiaohm | Yes you can learn to use them. Without permits and the like you cannot keep them. | Jan 03 14:33 |
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| MinceR | oh, btw | Jan 03 14:33 |
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| MinceR | 153716 < oiaohm> Partly police policy. Carring a gun illegaly is death. | Jan 03 14:33 |
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| MinceR | death for whom? | Jan 03 14:33 |
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| MinceR | the carrier or the police officer? | Jan 03 14:33 |
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| MinceR | or random bystanders? | Jan 03 14:33 |
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| mib_n4pn5z | boo FF crashed | Jan 03 14:33 |
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| MinceR | also, what if a policeman isn't around to check for guns? | Jan 03 14:33 |
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| oiaohm | Carrier Police shot first sort out latter. And yes they are a good shot. | Jan 03 14:34 |
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| MinceR | what's going to prevent your burglar or mugger to carry a gun when he attacks you? | Jan 03 14:34 |
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| oiaohm | Holding a knife you will get asked to put it down. | Jan 03 14:34 |
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| MinceR | law-abiding citizens won't keep guns if you prohibit guns | Jan 03 14:34 |
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| oiaohm | Gun no request like that. Just shot death done. | Jan 03 14:34 |
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| MinceR | unfortunately, criminals by definition don't follow the law | Jan 03 14:34 |
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| oiaohm | Criminals are not dumb. | Jan 03 14:35 |
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| MinceR | (well, be one particular definition) | Jan 03 14:35 |
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| MinceR | s/be/by/ | Jan 03 14:35 |
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| MinceR | that's why they'll hide the gun | Jan 03 14:35 |
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| MinceR | and avoid authorities | Jan 03 14:35 |
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| MinceR | you can't put a police officer to guard every single citizen | Jan 03 14:35 |
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| oiaohm | Draw gun get seen dead. | Jan 03 14:35 |
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| oiaohm | Draw knife get seen get a chance to live. | Jan 03 14:36 |
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| oiaohm | What one would you choose. | Jan 03 14:36 |
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| MinceR | "Myth No. 1: Guns cause crime. A review of the academic literature shows that there is no relationship between the number of guns and the amount of crime in the United States. Criminologists Gary Kleck and E. Britt Patterson reported in 1993 their finding that gun ownership had no significant effect on the rates of murder, assault, robbery, or rape in the U.S. Between 1973 and 1992, the rate of gun ownership in the U.S. increased by 45 percent | Jan 03 14:37 |
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| MinceR | http://www.catb.org/~esr/gun... | Jan 03 14:37 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/03/idc-... | Jan 03 14:37 |
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| MinceR | oiaohm: or draw a gun and shoot the policeman before he can react | Jan 03 14:37 |
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| MinceR | because you know it's your only chance | Jan 03 14:37 |
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| mib_n4pn5z | ah one point i thought of one that IDC quote | Jan 03 14:37 |
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| oiaohm | Policeman here don't travel single. | Jan 03 14:38 |
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| mib_n4pn5z | it implies that they could still get the report tweaked more, it would just carry a "lesser" analysts name | Jan 03 14:38 |
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| MinceR | you keep assuming that policemen will be present everywhere someone decides to use a gun | Jan 03 14:38 |
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| MinceR | well they won't | Jan 03 14:38 |
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| mib_n4pn5z | that might be too much speculation, but it's one of the things i thought of when reading it | Jan 03 14:38 |
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| oiaohm | Of course they not. | Jan 03 14:38 |
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| MinceR | also, criminals don't necessarily travel single either | Jan 03 14:38 |
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| MinceR | and it's considerably riskier to draw a gun if a large part of the bystanders are armed too | Jan 03 14:39 |
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| oiaohm | Criminals have been shown here not to take unrequired risk. | Jan 03 14:39 |
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| MinceR | so they'll mug you where there aren't policemen around | Jan 03 14:39 |
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| oiaohm | Also more armed equals need to be armed. | Jan 03 14:39 |
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| MinceR | and they'll break into your house when there are no policemen visiting | Jan 03 14:40 |
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| oiaohm | There are basically no gun usage in crimes here at all. | Jan 03 14:40 |
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| schestowitz | mib_n4pn5z: fair point | Jan 03 14:40 |
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| MinceR | which means that prohibiting guns didn't really stop crime, did it? | Jan 03 14:40 |
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| MinceR | people will just use other weapons or bare hands that need more training | Jan 03 14:41 |
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| oiaohm | They don't need to defend themself against public and police play by rules when not having gun is safe. | Jan 03 14:41 |
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| MinceR | and those who plan to assault others have better access to such training | Jan 03 14:41 |
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| MinceR | not having a gun is not safe | Jan 03 14:41 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: other weapons are less lethal. | Jan 03 14:41 |
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| oiaohm | So we have like no cases of shoot outs effecting bystandarders. | Jan 03 14:41 |
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| MinceR | you can still be kicked or knifed to death | Jan 03 14:41 |
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| schestowitz | They are also easier to escape | Jan 03 14:42 |
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| MinceR | schestowitz: so i'll only be a little bit dead if they cut my throat? | Jan 03 14:42 |
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| MinceR | i'll feel very relieved if that happens :> | Jan 03 14:42 |
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| oiaohm | Guns basically increase the numbers of people who end up hurt. | Jan 03 14:42 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: depends on how a mugger approaches you. | Jan 03 14:42 |
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| oiaohm | Does not really alter the crime factor. | Jan 03 14:42 |
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| schestowitz | Rob Weir was mugged in Geneva | Jan 03 14:42 |
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| MinceR | oiaohm: read my quote again. | Jan 03 14:42 |
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| schestowitz | He went to the corrupt OOXML BRM | Jan 03 14:42 |
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| schestowitz | Some guy put a knife on him, IIRC | Jan 03 14:43 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe I read it too quickly, I dunno | Jan 03 14:43 |
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| schestowitz | Mugging and crime already rise because of the Depression | Jan 03 14:43 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, ushimitsudoki | Jan 03 14:43 |
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| MinceR | "Myth No. 2: Gun control laws reduce crime. Firearms have been regulated with increasing stringency in the United States for most of the past thirty years. Nevertheless, the number of firearms in private hands has increased continuously by many millions per year; handguns have become an increasing proportion of privately owned firearms; and rates of crime, violent crime, and homicide have shown no relationship to the passage or enforcement of g | Jan 03 14:43 |
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| ushimitsudoki | bah got tired of IRC through firefox | Jan 03 14:43 |
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| ushimitsudoki | howdy | Jan 03 14:43 |
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| oiaohm | Yes but they did not cover something. Numbers of mansluters of bystanders caused by shoot outs. | Jan 03 14:44 |
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| oiaohm | Robberies are more likely to be not front on. | Jan 03 14:44 |
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| oiaohm | Since person is not carring a gun. | Jan 03 14:45 |
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| oiaohm | Rate might not change by the causlities do. | Jan 03 14:45 |
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| oiaohm | Reducing crime is not the only reason to apply Gun control. Reducing the causlities from crime is a effect. Taking automatic weapons off street makes killing large numbers harder. | Jan 03 14:48 |
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| ushimitsudoki | is gun control like the fall back topic here :) | Jan 03 14:48 |
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| oiaohm | Rare odd topic. | Jan 03 14:49 |
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| MinceR | Using homicide and suicide data from a larger sample of countries, 35, (International Journal of Epidemiology 1998:27:216), Kleck found "no significant (at the 5% level) association between gun ownership levels and the total homicide rate in the largest sample of nations available to study this topic. (Associations with the total suicide rate were even weaker.)" | Jan 03 14:49 |
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| MinceR | http://www.guncite.com/gun_co... | Jan 03 14:49 |
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| MinceR | apparently not even casualties are increased. | Jan 03 14:49 |
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| MinceR | 155528 < oiaohm> Reducing crime is not the only reason to apply Gun control. Reducing the causlities from crime is a effect. Taking automatic | Jan 03 14:49 |
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| MinceR | weapons off street makes killing large numbers harder. | Jan 03 14:49 |
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| MinceR | no it doesn't | Jan 03 14:50 |
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| MinceR | biological weapons and homemade explosives are _much_ more effective at killing large numbers | Jan 03 14:50 |
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| MinceR | if someone wants to kill a lot of people, he won't look for an automatic weapon. | Jan 03 14:50 |
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| MinceR | also, i'd like to see how your two police officers are going to stop someone with an automatic weapon anyway | Jan 03 14:51 |
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| MinceR | or a group of criminals with automatic weapons | Jan 03 14:51 |
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| MinceR | http://www.guncite.com/gun_contro... | Jan 03 14:52 |
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| oiaohm | I really need to find the number here before and after gun control. | Jan 03 14:53 |
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| oiaohm | The effect was quite complete. | Jan 03 14:53 |
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| oiaohm | Police still have automatic weapons in pistels also more are trained with snipper riffles. | Jan 03 14:54 |
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| oiaohm | Using an automatic weapon will bring attention. Not a good thing really. | Jan 03 14:54 |
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| oiaohm | Before gun control police snippers use to try to shot the gun out there hands. | Jan 03 14:55 |
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| MinceR | you advocated "taking automatic weapons off street" | Jan 03 14:55 |
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| oiaohm | Australian way. | Jan 03 14:56 |
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| MinceR | so before gun control guns were allowed but of someone was seen holding one, they got a shot to the hand? | Jan 03 14:56 |
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| oiaohm | Ie automatic weapons out of publics hands. | Jan 03 14:56 |
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| MinceR | interesting police force you've got there. | Jan 03 14:56 |
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| MinceR | s/of/if/ | Jan 03 14:56 |
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| oiaohm | They are good marksmen lots of them were pulling of jaming or destorying the weapon. | Jan 03 14:57 |
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| oiaohm | So aiming for a human head is a lot larger target. | Jan 03 14:57 |
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| oiaohm | Yes most of the time hand was not harmed. | Jan 03 14:58 |
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| MinceR | http://www.nrawinningteam.com/auresult.html | Jan 03 14:59 |
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| oiaohm | Yes that is before police policy change. | Jan 03 15:01 |
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| oiaohm | Police policy change to shot gunman on site had a big effect. Also it took 3 years to clean the free guns out the system. | Jan 03 15:01 |
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| trmanco | http://webhostedservices.com/blog/?p=49 | Jan 03 15:01 |
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| oiaohm | Nra is targeting the pulse after gun restrictions not the long term result. | Jan 03 15:03 |
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| neighborlee | http://www.violencebegetsviolence.org/ | Jan 03 15:03 |
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| oiaohm | No guns in public hands on street made shot gunman on site possible to do without shoting a bystander. | Jan 03 15:05 |
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| MinceR | 161020 < neighborlee> http://www.violencebegetsviolence.org/ | Jan 03 15:06 |
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| MinceR | how does non-gun violence figure into this? | Jan 03 15:06 |
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| MinceR | how does violence committed by the authorities figure into this? | Jan 03 15:06 |
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| oiaohm | Australia did have an advantage over the USA. All guns have to be importored into this country. | Jan 03 15:08 |
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| oiaohm | So blocked imports it was only time before the street free guns run out. | Jan 03 15:09 |
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| MinceR | do you really believe they can't prevent criminals from smuggling guns into australia? :> | Jan 03 15:11 |
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| oiaohm | You know the other funny thing. Same year Australian put in gun control we had a gang land war. | Jan 03 15:12 |
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| oiaohm | That has started before gun control has be put in place. | Jan 03 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: true, it's eay to pass them | Jan 03 15:14 |
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| oiaohm | In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300% << Yes that abonormal number whould have happened with or without gun control. | Jan 03 15:14 |
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| schestowitz | When I was 15 I passed an air rifle through an international flight | Jan 03 15:14 |
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| schestowitz | Full-sized pellet gun. | Jan 03 15:14 |
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| MinceR | oiaohm: even if gun control has no effect on anything, it restricts freedom and thus the net effect is negative. | Jan 03 15:15 |
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| MinceR | it has to have a positive effect on crime and homicide in order to be worth using | Jan 03 15:15 |
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| oiaohm | The positive effect has been the numbers of hurt bystanders. | Jan 03 15:16 |
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| oiaohm | After everything settled back down. | Jan 03 15:16 |
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| oiaohm | Its the range a gun provides that increases numbers of hurt bystanders. | Jan 03 15:17 |
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| oiaohm | Most of that was drug fueled crime that was causing high numbers of harmed bystanders. | Jan 03 15:18 |
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| neighborlee | http://209.85.173.132/search?q=... < a very nice one and worth reading though I just went to end to see a quick summary and it was easily worth it even from that minimalistic perspective ;) | Jan 03 15:19 |
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| oiaohm | Its effect is not what the Rra are looking for. | Jan 03 15:19 |
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| MinceR | the numbers of hurt bystanders figure into homicide rates, doesn't it? | Jan 03 15:20 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of cases no. | Jan 03 15:20 |
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| oiaohm | Because shooter normally does not kill them. | Jan 03 15:21 |
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| neighborlee | and shock of shocks...we already knew about this philosophy some 2000 years ago ( love thy neighbor as yourself , etc. ) , but Im afraid not enough listened,,maybe we will over the next few thousand years if we make it that far ;) | Jan 03 15:21 |
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| MinceR | oiaohm: so, do you have any stats on "hurt bystanders"? | Jan 03 15:21 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: this assumes people are not repressed | Jan 03 15:21 |
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| neighborlee | the mustard seed :) | Jan 03 15:22 |
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| oiaohm | Not in URL's. MinceR The difference has been quite major. Of course in the 3 years settling down after gun rules come in. It took the heads of the gangs here to basically kill themselfs out. | Jan 03 15:24 |
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| oiaohm | After that crimes have basically been direct targetly targeted. Like shop assistant assulted but everyone else in store exscaping unharmed. | Jan 03 15:25 |
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| oiaohm | Most stupid recently was a guy doing a hold up with a rock. | Jan 03 15:26 |
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| oiaohm | Yes 1 rock. | Jan 03 15:26 |
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| neighborlee | let thee that is without sin ? ;))) < maybe he felt particuarly sin free that day> ;) | Jan 03 15:26 |
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| oiaohm | Could not work out why attentend said throw it. | Jan 03 15:26 |
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| oiaohm | Problem is stupid human + gun equals hurt people. Normally not well trained so normally fire weapon by mistake in some direction. | Jan 03 15:27 |
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| oiaohm | Its the other thing we have seen more pure stupped attempted robberies. Ie ones that by all logic don't ever stand a hope in hell of working. | Jan 03 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. We made front page of Linux Today. | Jan 03 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructu... | Jan 03 15:29 |
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| neighborlee | well others make a good point here though..stupid human +whateva equals hurt people..though sure strap on bomb is ugly too :(SIGH...you change violence when you change people. | Jan 03 15:29 |
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| oiaohm | Making a bomb needs some brains. | Jan 03 15:29 |
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| oiaohm | Not to blow yourself up with it before you get anywhere. | Jan 03 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, lehmann | Jan 03 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm scared him | Jan 03 15:30 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Jan 03 15:30 |
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| trmanco | hahaha | Jan 03 15:30 |
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| trmanco | Microsoft just lost its own game -> http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_con... | Jan 03 15:30 |
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| neighborlee | lol | Jan 03 15:31 |
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| trmanco | Will there be corruption in the US patent system? | Jan 03 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: thanks, someone E-mailed me this last night | Jan 03 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | Different source though (Electonista or whatever it's called) | Jan 03 15:32 |
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| trmanco | :) | Jan 03 15:32 |
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| schestowitz | I'm waiting until I have more MS patents news (I have 3) | Jan 03 15:32 |
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| trmanco | more here -> http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,100000... | Jan 03 15:32 |
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| trmanco | cool | Jan 03 15:32 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab should take note | Jan 03 15:32 |
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| schestowitz | This is funny: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/... | Jan 03 15:33 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the second figure | Jan 03 15:33 |
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| schestowitz | David Meyer changes his mug | Jan 03 15:33 |
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| trmanco | ridiculous ! | Jan 03 15:33 |
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| oiaohm | I am fairly sure Sun has the pay as you go patent from the time they though the first cloud like idea would take off. | Jan 03 15:34 |
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| oiaohm | If its still current MS could have some fun. | Jan 03 15:35 |
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| trmanco | Microsoft's netbook restrictions detailed: http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content... | Jan 03 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | Amazon too | Jan 03 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | They can find artistic way to sneak it on past the doormen of USPTO | Jan 03 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: is this new? | Jan 03 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | I know they revised the old 'crippling' mandate | Jan 03 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | But that was months ago | Jan 03 15:37 |
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| MinceR | 163124 < oiaohm> Not in URL's. MinceR The difference has been quite major. Of course in the 3 years settling down after gun rules come in. It | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| MinceR | took the heads of the gangs here to basically kill themselfs out. | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| MinceR | that sounds like a very specific case | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | "With XP gone for good, vendors will have no choice but to migrate to Vista, adding extra hardware and storage to cope with the overbloated OS, thus driving prices up once again and widening the price gap between Windows and Linux based netbooks. " | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| MinceR | so it hardly goes for gun control in general | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| MinceR | 163459 < oiaohm> Problem is stupid human + gun equals hurt people. Normally not well trained so normally fire weapon by mistake in some direction. | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | Like I said, they caused the cost of sub-notebooks to go through the roof | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, yes it is | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| MinceR | authorities are staffed by humans. criminals are humans. | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | They also pressure OEMs not to do low end (Linux) | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| trmanco | from yesterday I think | Jan 03 15:38 |
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| MinceR | criminals who want a career in firearm use can get training. | Jan 03 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft adds to Atom’s restrictions < http://www.itexaminer.com/microso... > | Jan 03 15:39 |
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| MinceR | normal citizens when there's no gun prohibition can get training. | Jan 03 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | What a nice company. It innovates "restrictions" | Jan 03 15:39 |
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| MinceR | you can even enforce it just like driving licenses. | Jan 03 15:39 |
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| MinceR | oiaohm: also consider the case of the police policy where you just shoot people with guns in their hand in the head. | Jan 03 15:40 |
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| MinceR | is that morally justifiable? | Jan 03 15:40 |
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| MinceR | what if, in order to eliminate violence, we legislate that people are to be shot in the head upon birth? it would surely work statistically :> | Jan 03 15:40 |
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| oiaohm | Yes person then cannot kill or harm anyone else. It also completely discourages using guns in crimes. | Jan 03 15:41 |
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| oiaohm | Nothing else has seemed to work as effectively. | Jan 03 15:41 |
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| oiaohm | It also reduced numbers of police harmed do to guns. | Jan 03 15:42 |
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| oiaohm | Ok increased the usage of knives and baseball bats and the like. | Jan 03 15:42 |
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| MinceR | so it didn't do anything | Jan 03 15:42 |
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| MinceR | except restricted the freedom of people. | Jan 03 15:42 |
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| oiaohm | That is what you are missing. | Jan 03 15:43 |
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| MinceR | hm? | Jan 03 15:43 |
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| oiaohm | Crimes fighting police not happening. | Jan 03 15:43 |
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| neighborlee | oiaohm: so what was the net effect | Jan 03 15:43 |
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| neighborlee | or was a study done | Jan 03 15:43 |
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| oiaohm | Seams crim + firearm equals attempt to fight way out. | Jan 03 15:44 |
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| MinceR | please use more grammar, i don't understand half of what you're saying. | Jan 03 15:44 |
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| oiaohm | Crim without firearm more often than not common sence. | Jan 03 15:44 |
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| oiaohm | Don't fight lay down arm. If took gun would have risked being dead any how. | Jan 03 15:44 |
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| MinceR | no offence, but you're starting to sound timecubish. | Jan 03 15:44 |
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| oiaohm | arms. | Jan 03 15:44 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: doesn't matter | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | I have my typos too | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | You get the message | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| MinceR | well, typos are one thing, leaving out half the words is another | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| oiaohm | grammer and me don't get along too good. | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| MinceR | i don't get the message | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| MinceR | even the parts i get i'm unsure of | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| oiaohm | Do grammer I get dyslexia effecting worlds. | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| oiaohm | words | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: messages are conveyed by assembly of words | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | Grammer is all the same. | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| oiaohm | It is bad enough without it. | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | nouns with adjectives connected by verbs. | Jan 03 15:45 |
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| oiaohm | Less fighting police more common sence in cases where caught less harm to criminals and anyone near by. | Jan 03 15:46 |
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| schestowitz | I love talking to people with errors because it means they don't try *too* hard to be formal | Jan 03 15:46 |
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| oiaohm | Over all crime rate not change but outcomes from the crimes changed. | Jan 03 15:47 |
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| schestowitz | I had friends who took 15 minutes to write a bloody E-maikls. | Jan 03 15:47 |
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| schestowitz | In fact, lacking sloppiness and insisting on highh standards means far less output and a lot less guilt | Jan 03 15:47 |
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| schestowitz | I gave up on lots of proofreading in 2004 | Jan 03 15:47 |
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| oiaohm | I wish I could fix my grammer. Everytime I have attempted I end up producing completely unreadable even by me 24 hours latter. | Jan 03 15:49 |
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| oiaohm | Catch you guys around. | Jan 03 15:51 |
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| schestowitz | Google's CEO should stay out of Obama's arena: http://www.npr.org/templates/stor... | Jan 03 16:00 |
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| schestowitz | Someone has volunteered to extract the text from the OLPC PDF. It's reverse bribery. Putting funds in lots of places and threatening to withdraw these if the places stop paying Microsoft. What a kickbacks loophole. | Jan 03 16:13 |
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| schestowitz | http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VwwMF6biCJU | Jan 03 16:39 |
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| schestowitz | bbl | Jan 03 17:39 |
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| PetoKraus | oh FFS | Jan 03 19:16 |
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| PetoKraus | i've almost installed mono!!! | Jan 03 19:16 |
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| MinceR | lol | Jan 03 19:16 |
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| PetoKraus | hmm, gnome-subtitles needs mono | Jan 03 19:35 |
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| PetoKraus | $H&ITE | Jan 03 19:35 |
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| trmanco | lol | Jan 03 19:42 |
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| trmanco | mono is a virus | Jan 03 19:42 |
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| trmanco | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono | Jan 03 19:43 |
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| PetoKraus | it's annoying | Jan 03 19:45 |
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| PetoKraus | i just wanna sync my subs! | Jan 03 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | Kate does subtitles. I saw it yesterday. | Jan 03 19:55 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah well.. i used something else | Jan 03 19:56 |
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| schestowitz | I've been thinking. If the chaps like the ones in the video are affected by the Progression of the Depression, then they could be recruited and unnecessarily assigned to carry out some military coo overthrowing governments that are 'disobedient'. | Jan 03 19:56 |
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| schestowitz | I tried getting OCR software earlier. But it doesn't do PDFs :-( | Jan 03 19:56 |
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| PetoKraus | lol the zune thing is priceless | Jan 03 20:01 |
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| Tallken | hello | Jan 03 20:29 |
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| schestowitz | Hey. | Jan 03 20:32 |
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| schestowitz | Just posted: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/... "The disinformation thing is rampant at all levels, that is why I don't watch TV, read newspapers or magazines. Or pay attention to any information that is likely to be manufactured or censored." | Jan 03 20:33 |
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| schestowitz | Godwin law invoked beforehand, I think. " These cast MS as the uncool lumbering out of touch giant. Which in in the view of of a lot of folks they are. The next step would be to compare them to fascism that uses Hitler's propaganda methodology, which they do." | Jan 03 20:33 |
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| Tallken | I stoppped watching TV because the news are so fucking boring! | Jan 03 20:34 |
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| schestowitz | Panda bears and 'honest' politicians. | Jan 03 20:35 |
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| Tallken | if everyone paid for each word said on TV -- politicians included -- the world would be much more fun | Jan 03 20:35 |
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| Tallken | people who speak too much are doing a disservice to everyone | Jan 03 20:35 |
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| Tallken | unless it's obviously a documentary or sth where such behaviour is rather desirable | Jan 03 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | I'm watching with concern what they do in video clips | Jan 03 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | There are some musicians that make interesting clips | Jan 03 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | But about 90% are about booty, sex, cars, and, dollaz and b*ches. It's all just mugs, cleavage, posing and parties. | Jan 03 20:37 |
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| schestowitz | I enjoy the music on TV, but the videos are just so damn boring and stupifying. | Jan 03 20:38 |
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| Tallken | schestowitz, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS4HNruA1FU < Fat Boy Slim - Sunset (Bird Of Prey) > | Jan 03 20:39 |
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| schestowitz | OMG. When I wrote that thing about video I was thinking about Fat Boy Slim | Jan 03 20:42 |
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| schestowitz | I actually use him as an example routinely (one who makes good videos and whose face you hardly ever see) | Jan 03 20:43 |
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| Tallken | ;) | Jan 03 20:44 |
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| *Tallken will have dinner | Jan 03 20:44 |
| Tallken | and that video has a meaning | Jan 03 20:44 |
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| Tallken | I believe it is mentioned in Wikipedia | Jan 03 20:44 |
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| Tallken | anyway, away | Jan 03 20:44 |
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| schestowitz | I like this Bootsy Collins one... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sMZwZiU0kKs (Weapon Of Choice - Fatboy Slim) | Jan 03 20:45 |
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| twitter | You do pay for every word spoken on TV. Advertising raises the price of everything. | Jan 03 20:57 |
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| twitter | Roy, export your PDF to the image format your OCR does. | Jan 03 20:58 |
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| schestowitz | I thought about it (screenshots) | Jan 03 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | But the software that was on the Mandriva repos seems to be command-line driven, so couldn't be arsed. | Jan 03 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | Anyone, someone extracted the text from all pages by hand. | Jan 03 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/03/f... | Jan 03 21:03 |
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| twitter | wow | Jan 03 21:11 |
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| twitter | "If the chaps like the ones in the video are affected by the Progression of the Depression, then they could be recruited and unnecessarily assigned to carry out some military coo overthrowing governments that are 'disobedient'." Oh yeah. | Jan 03 21:13 |
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| twitter | The more powerful the autocrats become, the more likely you are to end up in some kind of miserable "war economy" | Jan 03 21:14 |
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| schestowitz | People snitch on them. | Jan 03 21:14 |
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| twitter | Rationed and working for the war machine, jailed or on the front lines. | Jan 03 21:15 |
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| schestowitz | It was easier to keep them quiet when there was no Internet | Jan 03 21:15 |
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| twitter | That's why the US has declared war on the entire world. That's what the "War on Terror" is according to my relatives. They think it is AOK for US agents to murder, jail and torture people without trial. | Jan 03 21:17 |
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| twitter | They are out of control, and thankfully are a minority opinion. | Jan 03 21:17 |
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| schestowitz | Putin said so | Jan 03 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | "totally out of control" | Jan 03 21:20 |
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| twitter | That guy controls his press by murder too. | Jan 03 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | We are very gullible creature. Television can install straws in our skulls. | Jan 03 21:21 |
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| schestowitz | Instill disinfo | Jan 03 21:21 |
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| twitter | That's why I avoid TV. | Jan 03 21:21 |
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| twitter | I see what has done to people I know. | Jan 03 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | Rather sued Bush? | Jan 03 21:22 |
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| twitter | Yes. | Jan 03 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | They try to sack him | Jan 03 21:22 |
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| twitter | They sacked him, that's why he sued. | Jan 03 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | Good luck suing the cronies.. Goodfellas | Jan 03 21:27 |
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| schestowitz | What's with "torture"? They call it something else now... can't recall what | Jan 03 21:27 |
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| schestowitz | "processing"...? | Jan 03 21:27 |
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| twitter | Discomfort positions. Extraordinary Rendition. There are lots of names for it. | Jan 03 21:27 |
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| schestowitz | What's that word they use now to embellish (other than waterboarding and all)? | Jan 03 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | Oh yeah.. rendition. *LOL* | Jan 03 21:28 |
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| twitter | If you allow people to abuse prisoners, prisoners will die. | Jan 03 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | It's not funny, but what's funny is how they hide their deeds | Jan 03 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe that's sound torture :-) Bad renditions of songs. | Jan 03 21:28 |
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| twitter | The US and allies executed people for similar deeds. | Jan 03 21:29 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, which is why they are hypocrites | Jan 03 21:29 |
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| schestowitz | Judging by rules and precedence, some would tell you that the indictment against Bush and Cheney are sere enough to... you know.. | Jan 03 21:29 |
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| schestowitz | *severe | Jan 03 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | John C. Dvorak idiocy... http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/top... ... since WHEN is Linux just some desktop platform? The press should be reprimanded for misleading people, telling them that computer=desktop | Jan 03 21:31 |
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| Tallken | cya laterz | Jan 03 21:49 |
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| *Tallken has quit (Client Quit) | Jan 03 21:50 |
| trmanco | see comments: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com... | Jan 03 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | Tough crowd :-o! | Jan 03 21:57 |
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| trmanco | too bad | Jan 03 22:02 |
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| twitter | updated Vista 7 failure log to note the 2007 start of hype http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957 | Jan 03 22:22 |
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| twitter | updated the Vista 7 Hype Log to include more authors and promises. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759 | Jan 03 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | See latest blog post | Jan 03 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | More on Vista 7, AKA Windows 6.1 | Jan 03 22:23 |
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| twitter | Yes, that's what got me started. :) | Jan 03 22:24 |
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| twitter | now back to it. | Jan 03 22:24 |
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| schestowitz | You're mocking Vista7 a year before it comes out of the womb. | Jan 03 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | Making it DoA perhaps | Jan 03 22:33 |
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| MinceR | it's going to DoA anyway | Jan 03 22:36 |
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| MinceR | s/to/to be/ | Jan 03 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | Not necesarily | Jan 03 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | They spend a lot of money of propagadvertising. | Jan 03 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | *on | Jan 03 22:37 |
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| MinceR | they did the same with vista, didn't they? | Jan 03 22:37 |
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| MinceR | fat lot of good it did them. | Jan 03 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, and it worked | Jan 03 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | People were fooled when it was new. | Jan 03 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | Vista was not mocked until MUCH later | Jan 03 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | I fought it with words for YEARS | Jan 03 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | (in COLA mostly) | Jan 03 22:38 |
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| MinceR | the only way they're fooling some people into thinking that it even sells at all is by selling xp licenses in a way that allows them to count those as vista purchases | Jan 03 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | That too. | Jan 03 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | People found out | Jan 03 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | They count that as double saled, IIRC | Jan 03 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | *sales | Jan 03 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | it's about perception... sheep culture. | Jan 03 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | "200 million 'people' already use Vista, so why don/t /you/?" | Jan 03 22:39 |
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| Axz | Because i don't like searching for right drivers | Jan 03 22:39 |
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| Axz | :p | Jan 03 22:39 |
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| twitter | Vista7 is Vista. The Windows 7 fail logs are a continuation of the Vista Failure Log. http://slashdot.org/~twitter... | Jan 03 22:39 |
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| twitter | I don't think they have 200 million users yet. | Jan 03 22:40 |
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| twitter | A large proportion of Vista users don't last more than six months before replacing it. | Jan 03 22:41 |
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| twitter | Over Christmas, I got to see Vista fail on a Dell. It was sad. Weeks of M$ "support" by email followed by removal of SP1 and a brick. | Jan 03 22:42 |
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| twitter | Not a merry Christmas for the victim. | Jan 03 22:42 |
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| twitter | On boot it tries to clean itself up, errors and freezes with a single line of white text on a black screen. !! hex number !! followed by worthless blinking text. | Jan 03 22:43 |
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| twitter | It will be interesting to see what happens next. | Jan 03 22:44 |
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| twitter | bbl | Jan 03 22:44 |
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| MinceR | has someone blogged about that? | Jan 03 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | Not that I've seen anything recently. | Jan 03 22:53 |
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| schestowitz | Starting a war of aggression is "the supreme international crime" that "contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." Bush must be brought to the Hague and prosecuted. < http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-nov-fe... > | Jan 03 23:02 |
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| *NeonFloss (n=whyban@rdsl-0551.tor.pathcom.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 03 23:18 |
| Axz | hi NeonFloss :) | Jan 03 23:19 |
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| NeonFloss | sorry schestowitz | Jan 03 23:19 |
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| NeonFloss | about that the other day | Jan 03 23:19 |
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| NeonFloss | :P | Jan 03 23:20 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, that's coo. | Jan 03 23:20 |
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| schestowitz | cool. | Jan 03 23:20 |
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| NeonFloss | nope | Jan 03 23:20 |
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| Axz | <schestowitz> "200 million 'people' already use Vista, so why don/t /you/?" < where you got that info from buddy? | Jan 03 23:20 |
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| NeonFloss | I made an ass of myseld on a publicly logged channel | Jan 03 23:20 |
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| Axz | because its funny | Jan 03 23:20 |
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| schestowitz | Axz: it's what Microsoft says | Jan 03 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | It's a lie | Jan 03 23:21 |
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| Axz | i know thatÃ
⺠whats making it funny :p | Jan 03 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | They can count a new PC as two Vista sales if it runs XP or Linux | Jan 03 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | There's a misconception. Some people think that if Windows "is for stupid people", then it must be easy, as opposed to it just appealing to those who are blinded to better options (and are therefore "stupid") | Jan 03 23:21 |
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| Axz | Yeah, in Ntherlands there are 40% PC stores selling Ubuntu as build-on system | Jan 03 23:22 |
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| Axz | Netherlands* | Jan 03 23:22 |
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| NeonFloss | really? | Jan 03 23:22 |
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| Axz | Yeah i think even PC retailers are tires of Vista being one big issue day after day and complains are getting more higher | Jan 03 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | Well, Holland is ahead. The govt moves to FOSS even.. | Jan 03 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | The US and UK as WELL behind, so you don't find much pro-Linux news in the English-speaking press | Jan 03 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | South Africa does not have strong presence in the press, but it's pro-FOSS and against software colonialism that the British and American govts fight /for/ | Jan 03 23:26 |
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| NeonFloss | well give govermant and school institutions switch to FOSS then the main population will too | Jan 03 23:27 |
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| NeonFloss | because kids learn to use FOSS | Jan 03 23:27 |
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| NeonFloss | and then they stick with it | Jan 03 23:27 |
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| NeonFloss | we need people to lobby schools to switch | Jan 03 23:28 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, Windows and Office become 'too different; | Jan 03 23:28 |
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| NeonFloss | heh | Jan 03 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | But governments are corrupted by Microsoft and the Gates Foundation | Jan 03 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | They pass them money | Jan 03 23:29 |
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| NeonFloss | sure | Jan 03 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | So that they stick with Microsoft for kids | Jan 03 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | It's only recently that I found proof that Gates passed billions to /governments' | Jan 03 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | Now they have Jeff Raikes in there too. It's like a Microsoft bank account with "charity" sign on its door | Jan 03 23:29 |
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| NeonFloss | im still waiting for a completely compatible eqivelen of M$ office for linux | Jan 03 23:29 |
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| Axz | NeonFloss, OpenOffice.Org 3.0 | Jan 03 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft works hard to ensure you don't have that./ | Jan 03 23:30 |
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| NeonFloss | yes | Jan 03 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | Compt, I mean | Jan 03 23:30 |
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| NeonFloss | Axz: is close | Jan 03 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | OOXML, moving formats, patents, etc | Jan 03 23:30 |
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| NeonFloss | but not perfect | Jan 03 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | Lock-in is its business model, not features or quality | Jan 03 23:30 |
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| NeonFloss | openoffice gives my different formatting sometimes | Jan 03 23:31 |
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| Axz | With few tweaks that could be fixed , but will speak to you with it in other channel... | Jan 03 23:32 |
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| NeonFloss | is wine better now that its out of beta? | Jan 03 23:32 |
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| Axz | anyhow Whats yours idea on OpenSuse using Novell as well schestowitz ? | Jan 03 23:32 |
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| NeonFloss | Axz: I manage well with openoffice but Im talking about the average user | Jan 03 23:33 |
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| Axz | NeonFloss, No beta is also good but wine beta is also made for futher development | Jan 03 23:33 |
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| Axz | further* | Jan 03 23:33 |
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| NeonFloss | oh | Jan 03 23:33 |
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| schestowitz | Wine and beta? | Jan 03 23:34 |
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| NeonFloss | I need a new nick for this server | Jan 03 23:34 |
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| NeonFloss | any ideas? | Jan 03 23:34 |
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| Axz | i ;m using beta myself because i'm Mantianer for wine working on M$ libs | Jan 03 23:34 |
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| schestowitz | OpenSUSE is less of an issue, but better leave Novell stuff untouched. | Jan 03 23:34 |
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| Axz | yeah^ but you think would novell bring better future into open source applications? | Jan 03 23:35 |
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| schestowitz | No, for Novell. | Jan 03 23:35 |
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| schestowitz | Novell works for SUSE and Novell. | Jan 03 23:35 |
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| Axz | Was just wondering because once i remember old times SUSE worked on 8 cd boxes, and what they established now | Jan 03 23:36 |
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| *NeonFloss is now known as Neon|lost | Jan 03 23:37 |
| Axz | Because on my previous blog there is also part about Microsoft challenging Redhat with Windows server 2008 | Jan 03 23:38 |
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| schestowitz | Axz: I had a 5 CD set | Jan 03 23:38 |
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| schestowitz | 8. | Jan 03 23:38 |
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| Axz | yeah me too, it was time of bashing and anarchy :P | Jan 03 23:38 |
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| schestowitz | “Do you pine for the nice days of Minix-1.1, when men were men and wrote their own device drivers?” Linus Torvalds | Jan 03 23:43 |
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| schestowitz | Is xfce getting chubby? http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2009/01/03/f... | Jan 03 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | Feedback on XO Laptops in Brazilian Schools < http://www.olpcnews.com/countries/brazil/... > | Jan 03 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | Yuck... Intel to Linux is like cancer to a health clinic... http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/arch... | Jan 03 23:52 |
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