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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 18th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:15 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

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dsmith_ interestig tidbit Aug 18 05:27
dsmith_ http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/chinese-sof… Aug 18 05:28
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schestowitz Interesting new article about self-fulfilling prophecy from Gartner: http://www.serverwatch.com/hrevi… Not sure what to make of it… Aug 18 09:02
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Ziggyfish hey Aug 18 10:25
schestowitz Hey there. I’ve just posted some stuff. What’s up? Aug 18 10:26
Ziggyfish What was link again to the vid you have me last week, were that guy was talking about the gov Aug 18 10:29
schestowitz Oh, wait.. Aug 18 10:31
schestowitz http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/ne… Aug 18 10:31
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PetoKraus hm, i almost forgot Aug 18 12:01
PetoKraus i’ve had a talk with former head of oracle slovakia Aug 18 12:01
schestowitz And they open-source everything? :-D Aug 18 12:02
PetoKraus :D not really, just got a phone, gimme sec Aug 18 12:03
PetoKraus it was private talks Aug 18 12:04
PetoKraus duh phone again! Aug 18 12:04
PetoKraus we were talking about gnu and stuff… he being part of that old business model which was in slovakia here Aug 18 12:06
PetoKraus meaning – quite liking google and online products, not really caring about them being or not being open. Aug 18 12:06
PetoKraus the main point was, though, that he was pissed off at vista licensing stuff – that part about changing your computer Aug 18 12:06
PetoKraus (if you change X% of your PC’s hardware, you are fucked) Aug 18 12:07
schestowitz People actually adopt Vista? Aug 18 12:07
PetoKraus though, he said, that “i am gonna hack” (meaning, that he’s willing to use pirated software) Aug 18 12:07
PetoKraus i dunno, i understood that he uses still XP Aug 18 12:08
kentma schestowitz: some will have little or no choice, as always. Aug 18 12:08
schestowitz Oracle must use just GNU/Linux to weaken Microsoft, its main rival perhaps. Ellison has already realised this, so he treats Windows as secondary. Aug 18 12:08
schestowitz Adobe needs to just use GNU/Linux too in order to bypass a Microsoft dependecy. http://digg.com/linux_unix/How_… Aug 18 12:08
PetoKraus he was an “Alliance&Channel Manager” though Aug 18 12:09
PetoKraus if adobe opensourced… man. Aug 18 12:10
schestowitz Nokia and others went out of their way with phones in order to avoid Microsoft making the rules. Oracle should do the same. IBM took a step further with this in LinuxWorld (promoting Linux PCs) Aug 18 12:10
PetoKraus lgpl would be great for flash player, wouldn’t it Aug 18 12:10
PetoKraus it was just funny to hear from a… wealthy old guy, that he’d resort to use pirated software just to bypass those annoying MS checks Aug 18 12:12
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PetoKraus though the “old business mentality” in here is still quite… reluctant to adopt FOSS as competetive alternative. Aug 18 12:13
PetoKraus i give it 15 years. by then, today’s graduates will get into manager positions and will actually decide upon the business models and solutions. Aug 18 12:13
schestowitz It probably will happen father though. Aug 18 12:14
schestowitz *faster Aug 18 12:14
PetoKraus i mean, in slovakia. we are conservative. Aug 18 12:14
schestowitz Just look at the economic impact and how it changes people’s judgment. Is Slovakia affected by the global recession? Aug 18 12:14
PetoKraus it’ll be soon. Eurozone. Aug 18 12:15
PetoKraus we’ve had +10%net GDP last year, economical boom Aug 18 12:15
PetoKraus (yeah. Right-wing govt invited automobile factories, which will soon outsource farther to the East, after the tax bonus period ends. not a long-term solution, not a long-sustainable growth.) Aug 18 12:16
schestowitz So no apparenti impact yet. I imagine that over year unemployment is rising (I haven’t checked) while prices soar. It’s probably worse in the US. Aug 18 12:16
PetoKraus it’ll hit the european fan soon. Aug 18 12:17
PetoKraus adopting euro this year was, probably, not very good decision… :D Aug 18 12:17
schestowitz That is bound to affect many things. Microsoft thinks that now only it can raise prices but that it can also force people to buy new PCs. Aug 18 12:18
schestowitz *not only Aug 18 12:18
kentma :-D Aug 18 12:19
kentma sorry – smiley testing :-) Aug 18 12:19
schestowitz Disruptive technology can ride on the back of economic disruption when it occurs, I think. Based on what I’ve read, IT budgets (in the US at least) are lowered, so surely that translates into exploring cheaper options… freedom arguments aside. Aug 18 12:19
PetoKraus you know, the funny thing is Aug 18 12:21
PetoKraus adobe doesn’t need to port PS to linux Aug 18 12:21
PetoKraus just plugin interoperability with GIMP would be enough Aug 18 12:21
PetoKraus (reading the “how adobe can stop msft” article) Aug 18 12:22
schestowitz Well, it already works with Wine, but it’s probably not the same experience. Aug 18 12:23
schestowitz BTW: A corrupt system that thrives is unlikely to see an end. When things go badly, people demand change. That’s why a poor economy is likely yo motivate people to explore the ills in the way industry works. Just watch those new complaints about corruption in procurement. Aug 18 12:23
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mib_3u3e5j yellow! Aug 18 12:34
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twitter Good morning.  Reading to catch up. Aug 18 16:21
twitter Oh no, schestowitz.  Do NOT LET THE TROLLS TELL YOU WHAT TO DO.  They will continue to slander you but will have an easier time if you give them less to work with. Aug 18 16:21
twitter I like your OOXML roll up. Aug 18 16:22
schestowitz twitter: what trolls are you referring to? Aug 18 16:22
twitter When you said, “I stopped with certain types of submission. I got slandered and abused like hell. I still do, but less because the content is not provocative,” I cringed.  Shut up is exactly what they seek. Aug 18 16:23
schestowitz Regarding OOXML, I say what others want to say but cannot because of their affiliation (LF, IBM, Sun, Google, whatever). The press won’t say it either because accusations against Microsoft get it in trouble (not just libel, but also conflict with advertisers). Aug 18 16:24
schestowitz Yes, I know. Aug 18 16:24
twitter It’s good to be careful, like you are, but it’s not good to self censor. Aug 18 16:24
schestowitz I’m mostly referring to criminal evidence against Microsoft which I posted to Digg. Some of it made the front page and then got wide media coverage. Aug 18 16:25
twitter Evidence is good. Aug 18 16:25
schestowitz What tha?? http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/… (I thought they had already joined… /before/ Adobe) Aug 18 16:25
twitter You find, tie together and present a lot of it. Aug 18 16:26
schestowitz Yes, twitter, I’ll carry on doing that. In case I ever quit doing this, I want people to have access to stuff that I found. Shane could also pick it up where I left… in case I change paths… I’m confident that I’ll carry on for another year. Aug 18 16:27
twitter Cool Aug 18 16:27
twitter Advertising budgets … the end of M$ comes when they run out of money to buy the press. Aug 18 16:28
schestowitz BTW, for the first time in a long time, Tom Adestein made a public post. He used to write a lot about Linux and Microsoft and he’s now job hunting  (career change), I think. Aug 18 16:29
schestowitz Peter Galli too just BLOOP! Vanished when eWeek (Ziff Davis) declared bankruptcy. SJVN survived in other sites. Aug 18 16:30
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schestowitz Heh. Here’s just what I thought: http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2008/0… “Shocking in that Ubuntu is one of the most hyped (if not THE most) of all Linux distributions and Canonical was NOT previously a member of the Linux Foundation. “ Aug 18 16:33
schestowitz Here’s an interesting comment about GNU/Linux desktop market share: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.p… Aug 18 16:46
*libervisco_ is now known as libervisco Aug 18 16:53
twitter There’s an installfest at the CCCC tonight, so I’m going to get another first hand look at Ubuntu.  I was not all that impressed two or three years ago and stuck with Debian. Aug 18 16:58
schestowitz Just Ubuntu? Aug 18 16:58
twitter They are doing Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS.  Not my choices …. I’ll be happy to give Debian to anyone who wants it but the class will teach from one or the other of those. Aug 18 17:00
twitter There’s not much difference between Debian and Ubuntu from an operational perspective, so the classes should apply equally to both. Aug 18 17:00
schestowitz Mandriva is similar to PCLOS. Fedora I’m not 100% sure about because of the setup curve (freedom value is stronger) Aug 18 17:00
twitter CCCC Newbies take time to value freedom. Aug 18 17:01
twitter Recently, I discovered Ubuntu is free of insane US distribution laws so that a lot of US banned software is available.  This is good for things like MythTV. Aug 18 17:02
schestowitz Yes, you ‘seed’ the skills and understanding. You show the (wo)man how to fish (or give a rod) and that person can then do the same for self *and* others. Aug 18 17:02
twitter Sooner or later, most free software users learn to value freedom above $40 network cards and fancy graphics. Aug 18 17:04
schestowitz Is it true to say that gaming hit a performance/wow factor barrier some years back? If so, it’s good news. Aug 18 17:05
twitter I’m not sure about that generally.  People at the CCCC are older, but non free gaming on GNU/Linux has been good for years. Aug 18 17:06
twitter Some gamers I know are interested in GNU/Linux for the “absurdly” lower hardware requirements, but I did not follow up on that. Aug 18 17:07
schestowitz …Assuming your shelf of games if empty. That said, binary rot/obsolescence occurs also with Vista. Aug 18 17:07
twitter It’s less of a concern anyway because gamers should be moving to consoles. Aug 18 17:08
schestowitz “You get what you pay for”; “if it’s not broken, don’t fix it”; “If many people use it, it must be good…”  We have many misconceptions to fight. The media helps not. Aug 18 17:08
twitter Free gaming will come with free 3D acceleration. Aug 18 17:08
twitter People understand the “cleanness” of free software. Aug 18 17:09
twitter I’m always reminded of the importance of software freedom when I try to upgrade a fancier distribution. Aug 18 17:09
schestowitz Consoles have evolved very little. Many of us used the same controllers as kids and FPSes have been around before I had pubes. :-) Not so much has evolved other than the number of rendered polygons. Wii is pushing in interesting directions though. Aug 18 17:09
twitter Even an easy distribution like Mepis is a pain because you have to follow the CD with half a dozen applications you want. Aug 18 17:10
schestowitz I never had such problems. Aug 18 17:11
twitter I have yet to see something as easy as Debian’s “apt-get upgrade” Aug 18 17:11
schestowitz Clean install is not hard, provided you know what you need and have a near package manager. Aug 18 17:12
twitter It’s not that big a problem, but a binary wipe from a CD is only a 15 minute job when you don’t want a bunch of programs that are not on the CD. Aug 18 17:12
schestowitz I was disappointed at times with YaST in SUSE 8.1, but apt-get was a real step up. Mandriva’s package management hasn’t failed on me, either. Except for when I shuffled some kernels and before I installed the old one back. Big mistake that was.. my own mistake. Aug 18 17:13
twitter Granted, I do the same thing with a clean Debian install, but that gives me additional control and choice a Live CD does not.  The upgrade route starts to look good when you have a lot of not so usual applications you like.  dist-upgrade is great. Aug 18 17:14
schestowitz Is MEPIS still maintained? Warren gave mixed messages the last time I heard. Aug 18 17:15
twitter His latest is newer than what I’ve got installed for the wife.  Don’t take my complaints to seriously, I’m just dreading that extra work. Aug 18 17:16
twitter Flash broke on her laptop, I’m not sure why, so it’s time to upgrade it. Aug 18 17:17
twitter When I do, I’m going to have to follow up with Gqview and a bunch of other programs I can’t remember right now. Aug 18 17:17
schestowitz Flash has been good to me on this box. Aug 18 17:18
twitter I hate flash. Aug 18 17:18
twitter I don’t even like Gnash much. Aug 18 17:19
schestowitz My experience really varies, but in general, I can’t complain much about Flash. It isn’t mint on Windows either, I’d imagine (occasional if rare crashes). Adobe is said to be likely to go FOSS with Flash at some stage. Aug 18 17:19
twitter Flash sucks down older machines.  A PIII is great without it but just barely usable with it. Aug 18 17:20
schestowitz But to be fair, the source for this is the gnash developers, who have recently received some specs (Screen). I put this one in the FP of Digg (John owns me one!): http://digg.com/linux_unix/How_Ado… Aug 18 17:20
twitter It would be a great thing if Adobe liberated flash.  Improvements would still take time. Aug 18 17:21
schestowitz I’m not sure if the Web needs Flash though. Well, Google not indexed Flash based on these specs, but that’s a Web that’s owned by a vendor. HTML has no owner. Aug 18 17:23
schestowitz *now Aug 18 17:23
twitter I’m not sure how well Gnash works now because I avoid flash sites.  It will take years for me to discover and use them.  Right now, I have is installed but I also have a gnash/knash kill button on my desktop. Aug 18 17:23
twitter That’s for a newer, 64bit dual core AMD Aug 18 17:24
schestowitz My latest one is also 64bit dual core AMD. Aug 18 17:24
twitter Vista’s failure has been good for cheaper hardware.  :) Aug 18 17:25
schestowitz Anyway… about OOXML, watch this comment: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor… Aug 18 17:25
schestowitz ‘The appeals procedure vote was set up so that there were two different questions, passage required the proper combination of yes and no votes from 2/3 of the voting blocks. A nicely rigged system. Quick synopsis of the vote procedure:”Heads I win, Tails you lose.”‘ Aug 18 17:25
schestowitz Good to see the C word (corruption coming up to back me up): ‘This will not help the standards bodies at all. Several of the National bodies are already calling for a change in the rules to keep this from happening again. A good case study in corruption in action’ Aug 18 17:25
schestowitz http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_sto… : ‘It seems that the vast majority intended to vote however Microsoft threatened/cajoled/bribed them rather than asserting their actual national sovereignty. Nothing misinterpreted here, simply dollars (and possibly prettied-up physical threats) at work here.’ Aug 18 17:26
schestowitz http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor… : ‘It seems that the vast majority intended to vote for prosecuting the appeals rather than denying them, but were misinterpreting the meaning of their vote.’ Aug 18 17:26
twitter Has anyone done another appeal yet? Aug 18 17:28
schestowitz Not that I know of. It’s hopeless. I want to see the SWAT team taking over, not some words in letters. Bryden hides behind a polished blue logo of “ISO”, thinking it a shield against accusations of corruption. He knows damn well that they were gamed. I hear that the UN is the same, but I can’t tell this based on anything I saw personally. Aug 18 17:29
schestowitz I could use some help with http://boycottnovell.com/come… Aug 18 17:34
schestowitz A friend asked me: “Can you find out the name of the original PDF this quote comes from (I think I sent it to you). I’m putting it up on Microsoft_Windows. It don’t matter how many time they say it , ‘WindowsNT not designed for the Internet’… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro… .. see the new image, I did that .. “ Aug 18 17:34
schestowitz Another competing service has just been defeated by the passing of new Draconian laws by a rival: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/200… That’s why campaigns against software patents are  a priority Aug 18 17:46
schestowitz Front pager moments ago… http://digg.com/linux_unix/10_Re… Aug 18 18:16
twitter That quote does not ring a bell. Aug 18 18:20
schestowitz We need more of these antitrust exhibits as plain text so that they are searchable, with the source scan identifiable to serve as proof. Aug 18 18:22
twitter I understand.  It’s a valuable resource.  Isn’t that already happening? Aug 18 18:24
twitter That Ars Technia article is weak.  It glosses over CC and other free media being taxed. Aug 18 18:26
twitter Actually, it does not mention that at all. Aug 18 18:26
schestowitz Not quite. Slated.org needs people to fetch the text. The scans are poor, some say deliberately. Either way, Microsoft rewrites history using its budget, so it needs to be stopped with good ammunition like those memos. Groklaw has the text of this: http://www.groklaw.net/p… Aug 18 18:27
twitter Giving a private company control like that is outrageous. Aug 18 18:27
twitter Yes, poor quality pdf is a favorite obfuscation tool.  Corrupt government officials have picked up the trick too. Aug 18 18:29
schestowitz Well, but it’s the lawyers who scanned it, not Microsoft. Aug 18 18:31
schestowitz Vis-a-vis govt’, this one showed up the other day: One Man’s Fight to Open Government Data – http://www.linuxinsider.com… – “Perry’s office automatically deletes virtually all its e-mails every seven days, according to the Dallas Morning News.” Aug 18 18:33
twitter Those emails are public records.  Deleting them is a crime, at least it is in Louisiana. Aug 18 18:34
schestowitz Full circle: How Microsoft is trying to eradicate email – http://weblog.infoworld.com/v… Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz Microsoft dirty tricks, part two (Bob Cringely) – http://www.technologyevangelist… Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz “In May 2004, Judge J. Frederick Motz ordered Microsoft to investigate Burst.com’s claim that, in 2000, Allchin ordered Microsoft employees to destroy email after 30 days and not to archive their email, suggesting that this deletion policy might be an effort to eliminate material that would later be damaging in court.” Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz “This case was settled out of court in March 2005, with Microsoft agreeing to pay Burst.com $60 million for nonexclusive rights to Burst.com’s media player software.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J… Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz Bush team deletes embarrassing emails http://www.theinquirer.net/defau… Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz AMD: Intel Destroyed Evidence in Antitrust Case – http://www.dailytech.com/a… Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz Intel’s anti-trust memos started vanishing from the top – http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/0… Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz Lenovo got financial help from Intel, claim – http://www.theinquirer.net/default.asp… Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz Investors sue Dell on payments from Intel: WSJ – http://www.marketwatch.com/news/st… Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz Hmmmmmm…. new anti-FOSS article with biased figures in the Wintel press (BW):  http://www.businessweek.com/technolog… Aug 18 18:37
schestowitz They don’t tell you that OSS VC is at an all-time high. They pick only the years that match their hypothesis (that OSS is bad for business). Aug 18 18:38
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schestowitz Interesting. Gagging…  http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/… Aug 18 19:16
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trmanco http://www.electronista.com/arti… Aug 18 19:34
schestowitz Yes, there’s another one from Taiwan. Bloomberg now has an article about it, not just the Taiwanese press. Aug 18 19:35
trmanco nice Aug 18 19:36
trmanco where can I find the bloomberg feed? Aug 18 19:37
schestowitz Let me find the article. Aug 18 19:37
schestowitz I can’t find the Blloomberg one, but there’s also this http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/ne… and this < http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar… > Aug 18 19:39
trmanco thanks Aug 18 19:48
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PetoKraus hello Aug 18 21:46
schestowitz Hey, PetoKraus, what’s up? Aug 18 21:46
PetoKraus got an idea Aug 18 21:47
PetoKraus i guess i’ll do some kind of… european watch Aug 18 21:47
PetoKraus for our country. Aug 18 21:47
PetoKraus slovakia, i mean Aug 18 21:47
schestowitz A Web site? Aug 18 21:48
PetoKraus i’ve been talking with some people tonight, and i guess i know what’s the biggest problem of our people – complete lack of information Aug 18 21:48
PetoKraus so the idea is to… provide slovaks with information what’s going on in EU, in slovak, with references Aug 18 21:48
schestowitz Yes, that too. See this on gagging: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20… Aug 18 21:49
PetoKraus once it gains momentum – include interviews with MP’s Aug 18 21:49
schestowitz What CMS? Aug 18 21:49
PetoKraus and include means of… you know, feedback Aug 18 21:49
PetoKraus schestowitz: that’s details. i wanna something which is secure, portable Aug 18 21:49
PetoKraus basically both – https web based, and standalone app Aug 18 21:50
PetoKraus custom XML language, with parser, translating to ODF and HTML Aug 18 21:50
PetoKraus but that’s really details. Aug 18 21:50
PetoKraus the main point is funding of the interviewers/journalists Aug 18 21:50
PetoKraus cause no one will work for you for free Aug 18 21:51
schestowitz I tried to find ODF converters for HTML. I tried this in 2007, but there was only one _in planning_ Aug 18 21:51
schestowitz I know about ODF @ WWW (or something like this), but it’s the opposite. ODF -> (X)HTML Aug 18 21:51
schestowitz Forget about making money running a site. Aug 18 21:52
PetoKraus the funding – since it can be… shown like access to information and stuff, i might get an EU grant Aug 18 21:52
PetoKraus or some governmential support… whatever Aug 18 21:52
PetoKraus of course, non-profit Aug 18 21:52
schestowitz BN.com just pays Shane the hosting bills using AdSense… and he has some left to burn CDs of his distro and give it to teachers. Aug 18 21:52
PetoKraus well, bn.com is more specialised Aug 18 21:52
PetoKraus i would like to stock all info which is going on in EU in there Aug 18 21:53
PetoKraus not only IT related Aug 18 21:53
schestowitz At best, if you’re lucky, you get ibiblio hosting with a free AMD server (well, that’s GPL) Aug 18 21:53
schestowitz *GL Aug 18 21:53
PetoKraus i don’t need hosting… i have that, i can fund that. I can’t fund people to write for me Aug 18 21:53
schestowitz I thought you wanted to accumulate examples of misconduct… like Wikileaks. Aug 18 21:53
schestowitz Some people write for free. Reporters are rarely in it for the money. Aug 18 21:54
PetoKraus not only misconduct, i would like to present the work of our MP’s to slovak people, and what is going on in the EU to the people Aug 18 21:54
PetoKraus since i know that many people would say NO, if they knew that some things are happening Aug 18 21:54
schestowitz If there’s nothing like this already, there must be a place for it. Aug 18 21:55
PetoKraus it reminds me of douglas adams… “you have had enough time to appeal for destruction of the Earth – the notice was displayed in the land’s office of your region for 20 years” Aug 18 21:55
PetoKraus you know, if you can’t reach the information, you can’t appeal Aug 18 21:56
schestowitz When Shane started BN, there were only some open letters in sites, but no other site has really covered what developed to be larger and ended with a patent nuclear threat in May 2007. Aug 18 21:56
PetoKraus i’ll have to put it into concept Aug 18 21:56
schestowitz Yes, but how big is the media you compete with — to deliver info? Aug 18 21:56
PetoKraus there is no media delivering info Aug 18 21:56
PetoKraus that’s the point Aug 18 21:57
schestowitz Not even local papers? Aug 18 21:57
PetoKraus no! Aug 18 21:57
PetoKraus you don’t know a fucking thing about what slovak MP’s do Aug 18 21:57
PetoKraus which is a bit tragical Aug 18 21:57
PetoKraus (i am talking about EP now) Aug 18 21:58
schestowitz Well, just remember not to step into this hoping for income. I don’t know how people actually manage to run sites and claim profits. Aug 18 21:58
*self_liar (i=bd121f50@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-09c4704ba702b257) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 18 21:58
schestowitz I think there were some stories about Slovakia and OOXML… the usual stuff. MPs like the low profiles… serves them well… room for mischief. Aug 18 21:58
PetoKraus well, i am willing to spend my money on it to make it work, and to get some grants to start it off Aug 18 21:58
self_liar another mono lover? Aug 18 21:58
self_liar http://jeffreystedfast.blogspot.com/2008/08/… Aug 18 21:58
PetoKraus i don’t intend to make money off information service Aug 18 21:59
schestowitz Haha. Jeffery mocked me… he should work for Ballmer. Aug 18 21:59
schestowitz *Jeffrey Aug 18 22:00
PetoKraus though, i realise it can be hard to find people who’ll read article in foreign language and be able to objectively translate that to slovak Aug 18 22:00
PetoKraus and comment on that Aug 18 22:00
schestowitz PetoKraus: how to make a living while writing? I ask this because I have a similar dilemma. Aug 18 22:00
self_liar hehe Aug 18 22:00
PetoKraus schestowitz: i don’t want to write myself, that’s the point Aug 18 22:00
PetoKraus i am a chemist, and i’d like to stay at that Aug 18 22:00
schestowitz Well, so you look for cheap/free labour. It’s easier said than done. Aug 18 22:01
PetoKraus yes, that’s what i am talking about Aug 18 22:01
PetoKraus people of my age MAY be willing to do that for a beer Aug 18 22:01
PetoKraus they are qualified enough, they know the language. Aug 18 22:02
schestowitz http://www.blogger.com/profil… Do these people make a living off Microsoft s*ite in GNU/Linux? Aug 18 22:02
schestowitz How to grow the site? Aug 18 22:02
schestowitz Chicken and egg thing, you know…? :-) Aug 18 22:02
PetoKraus i’ve got some contacts Aug 18 22:03
self_liar schestowitz: for surviving with low money , the more acceptable thing is live like rms Aug 18 22:03
PetoKraus i could get some ads in printed media Aug 18 22:03
schestowitz Printed is no good for Internet. People need clickable redirection. Aug 18 22:03
PetoKraus i am talking slovakia, mate Aug 18 22:03
PetoKraus :) though yes. Aug 18 22:03
PetoKraus for example – the guy at DW.com is slovak Aug 18 22:04
schestowitz See, the problem with motivation is that you need an audience to get the urge to write. I used to have this problem. Aug 18 22:04
schestowitz Huh? I thought Ladislav was Russian. Oops. Aug 18 22:04
PetoKraus once he mentioned my distro-sort-of in DWW, my page got 1000 more hits in a week Aug 18 22:04
self_liar schestowitz: hey roy it’s a good idea to create a topic in sabayon linux forum Aug 18 22:05
self_liar schestowitz: sabayon uses a lot of mono Aug 18 22:05
PetoKraus don’t use sabayon, then :P Aug 18 22:05
self_liar schestowitz: but i love sabayon and gentoo Aug 18 22:06
PetoKraus don’t use sabayon, use gentoo! Aug 18 22:06
self_liar PetoKraus: i love sabayon Aug 18 22:06
self_liar PetoKraus: I use both Aug 18 22:06
schestowitz self_liar: yeah, I heard about Sabayon. Aug 18 22:06
PetoKraus i love gentoo and it loves me! Aug 18 22:06
schestowitz Weird combination: Gentoo and Microsoft, but Robbins…. hm…. Aug 18 22:07
self_liar schestowitz: look  distrowatch Aug 18 22:07
self_liar schestowitz: sabayon have a good rank Aug 18 22:07
PetoKraus gentoo and microsoft? Aug 18 22:07
self_liar PetoKraus: yes peto Aug 18 22:07
PetoKraus in one sentence? Aug 18 22:07
self_liar PetoKraus: daniel had finance problems Aug 18 22:08
schestowitz PetoKraus: 1000 hits if small for BN these days. He cited us too before… he actually criticised Groklaw, Radu and us for being stubborn. Aug 18 22:08
schestowitz self_liar: at least he left the dungeon quickly. Aug 18 22:08
schestowitz Port 25, that is. Aug 18 22:08
PetoKraus who is this daniel Aug 18 22:09
self_liar schestowitz: yes Aug 18 22:09
self_liar PetoKraus: Daniel is the founder of gentoo Aug 18 22:09
self_liar PetoKraus: but not anymore Aug 18 22:09
PetoKraus self_liar: ah, well, right. Aug 18 22:09
PetoKraus i guess this was in the pages 3-5 of “Histoire d’Gentoo” which i skipped. Aug 18 22:10
self_liar PetoKraus: but gentoo does not give money for daniel and then he left the gentoo foundation Aug 18 22:10
schestowitz This may have led to the recent decline of Gentoo’s status. But GNU/Linux as a whole grows. Aug 18 22:11
schestowitz The foundation and council are back though. They make a nice comebackl. Aug 18 22:11
PetoKraus gentoo’s status is shite Aug 18 22:11
PetoKraus as long as gentoo will do stupid things like graphical installer Aug 18 22:11
PetoKraus and will do them poorly Aug 18 22:11
self_liar schestowitz: the problem of gentoo is the ambition Aug 18 22:12
schestowitz Yes, that too. Aug 18 22:12
PetoKraus their reputation will not be good. It might be nicer to clean up the ebuilds and do some QA, and BETTER customizability Aug 18 22:12
schestowitz The impression I got is that they rushed 2008 out the door just for the sake of releasing it after 2007.1 was missing. Aug 18 22:12
PetoKraus i mean, i am able to build epiphany with xulrunner 1.8, 1.9 and webkit from source Aug 18 22:12
self_liar schestowitz: the project wants everything works in all architectures ,like debian does Aug 18 22:13
PetoKraus the ebuilds are a bit tough on allowing me to do that Aug 18 22:13
self_liar schestowitz: it ‘ not  a good idea Aug 18 22:13
PetoKraus self_liar: yes Aug 18 22:13
PetoKraus it happened to our school as well Aug 18 22:13
PetoKraus we used to be mathematical school Aug 18 22:13
self_liar only specific projects works in this world Aug 18 22:13
PetoKraus then, they opened bilingual classes… and some romistic classes… and international school… and the overal quality dropped. Aug 18 22:14
schestowitz self_liar: Gentoo is used on some devices, so it pays off, I think. Debian is still king on embedded. Aug 18 22:14
PetoKraus well, i wonder WHY is debian king on embedded’s, when it’s package management is tough b*tch… Aug 18 22:15
schestowitz PetoKraus: maths and science are not everything. Free culture is recognition of this. Greed-guided education is a menace though. Aug 18 22:15
self_liar sabayon in this case is always better than gentoo becaus of specific nature (desktop) Aug 18 22:15
PetoKraus schestowitz: no, i was just talking about impacts of “broader range of products” Aug 18 22:16
schestowitz PetoKraus: apt-get is great. Always worked for me. Aug 18 22:16
PetoKraus apt is good, the thing is – default debian install is HUGE compared to gentoo stage 3 Aug 18 22:16
self_liar gentoo portage is slow ,paludis always have arrogant developers ,and pkg core is recent Aug 18 22:17
schestowitz Repos were 20 gigs the last time I heard. Lots of s/w Aug 18 22:17
self_liar it’s interesting to open a boycott novell br ,but my english is not goog,I’m searching for people good in english Aug 18 22:18
schestowitz Eventually it might be all those ‘appliance-ed’ ‘Linuxed’ that take over. Like those ‘open’ PCs from IBM… Aug 18 22:18
self_liar someday maybe Aug 18 22:18
schestowitz self_liar: what do you mean? Translations? Aug 18 22:18
self_liar yes Aug 18 22:19
self_liar schestowitz: but i do not know Aug 18 22:19
schestowitz Well, I can’t speak Portuguese, but I would be *delighted* to add translation. We get like 15000 pageviews a day, so it would be worthwhile. Aug 18 22:20
schestowitz A while ago I saw some translations of BN to Chinese. Aug 18 22:20
*m-c (n=Matthew@ubuntu/member/desertc) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 18 22:21
self_liar schestowitz: Brazil need to know this information , a lot of people loves m$ Aug 18 22:21
self_liar schestowitz: of course because m$ pays them Aug 18 22:21
schestowitz Or pays the ‘talking heads’ to pass the love… Aug 18 22:22
m-c schestowitz, Do you have a web page up that summarizes your position on why novell should be boycotted?  Also, do you feel openSUSE should also be boycotted? Aug 18 22:22
self_liar schestowitz: yes ,of course Aug 18 22:22
schestowitz Hi, m-c Aug 18 22:22
self_liar schestowitz: you know , poor education ,poor life and low money , for m$ it’s a lot easy to buy peopel Aug 18 22:23
schestowitz m-c: I have several but nothing very comprehensive like a chapter. As for OpenSUSE, I try to leave them alone because unlike Novell, they attack back. They can also reform the project by moving away from Novell. Aug 18 22:23
m-c Are you still advocating a boycott of Novell at this time? Aug 18 22:24
*self_liar has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Aug 18 22:24
schestowitz self_liar: Without Linux, Microsoft would squeeze more money out of Brazil, but just like in China, it only needs these countries to keep its stuff de facto ‘standard’. It makes most money by squeezing the West. Aug 18 22:24
m-c Not meaning to put you on the spot, just curious about your argument, after seeing the impressive advances of openSUSE.  Looking for a counterpoint. Aug 18 22:25
schestowitz It’s a strong way to put it. I would just say that people should look at the many other options. SUSE is not the best there is and it does not deserve the business. Aug 18 22:25
schestowitz I didn’t choose the site name “Boycott Novell”. Aug 18 22:25
m-c I see. Aug 18 22:25
m-c I think you would really like what Novell has done with integrating the radeonHD drivers, by default.  (These are the GPL 3D drivers for AMD-ATI graphic cards.) Aug 18 22:26
schestowitz The worse one can do is pay Novell for GNU/Linux (Microsoft is paid that money too) for pretty much giving the finger to anyone who built Linux before 2003. Aug 18 22:26
schestowitz Novell is the newcomer that carrives at the party late, pukes on the floor, driving everyone away and then downing all the drinks. Aug 18 22:27
m-c Hmm.  Okay, thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Aug 18 22:27
schestowitz I have some stories about Novell and RadeonHD, but  I can’t share them. It’s embargoed for now. Aug 18 22:28
m-c Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on it, which I know you will share as soon as you can. Aug 18 22:28
m-c Have a good night. Aug 18 22:28
*m-c (n=Matthew@ubuntu/member/desertc) has left #boycottnovell (“Leaving”) Aug 18 22:28
schestowitz Thanks. Aug 18 22:28
schestowitz PetoKraus: about that site, go for it under the assumption that all media will be Web-based. It will be. Aug 18 22:29
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Aug 18 22:35
*trmanco has quit (“I just hit the close button :)”) Aug 18 23:51
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