03.13.09

^{Gemini version available ♊︎}

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 13th, 2009 – Part 3

Posted in IRC Logs at 11:39 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

_Hicham_	that is what i like about it	Mar 13 20:52
_Hicham_	everything is neatly done in a professional way	Mar 13 20:52
_Hicham_	no need to think about the layout	Mar 13 20:53
_Hicham_	it is the de facto standard in scientific documents	Mar 13 20:54
_Hicham_	I ve read about Kile	Mar 13 20:55
_Hicham_	but I didnt use it, since I have gnome	Mar 13 20:55
_Hicham_	and KDE apps do not fit very well on gnome	Mar 13 20:56
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schestowitz	I hope PJ is properly back now that the RSS feeds are back. Contributions to good causes outlast some hardships. PJ too has taken her much-deserved break. We all do.	Mar 13 21:04
schestowitz	Hehe. re JZuck someone says: “I like him because you know what you get and they are easily attackable.”	Mar 13 21:04
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schestowitz	LOL http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/…	Mar 13 21:08
schestowitz	Security vs. privacy? Reinterpreting the Fourth Amendment < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news… >	Mar 13 21:08
schestowitz	Easy to get ‘promoted’ from gutter level: MPAA announces major promotions < http://www.filmjournal.com/filmjournal/con… >	Mar 13 21:13
balzac	Roy, I read that link you posted on Linus Torvald’s trash-talking	Mar 13 21:20
balzac	I have to admit, the guy has a sense of humor	Mar 13 21:21
balzac	It can’t be interpreted any other way than as dry humor	Mar 13 21:21
balzac	http://www.softpanorama.org/Peopl…	Mar 13 21:21
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balzac	The person I have the greatest problem with is that (in)famous communist	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	RMS. Now, RMS may have been responsible for GNU, the GPL, GCC and many	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	other contributions to the computing community, but his stance, as well as	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	stench, displayed in his essays and actions, nauseates me. I mean, with	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	people refer to Linux as GNU / Linux?	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	that filth-ridden beard of his, where does he have room to demand that	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	that’s pretty silly	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	obviously sarcastic	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	Next in line of dirty scuzz-balls I have to deal with, and probably the	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	worst thorn in my side, is Alan Cox, the primary coder of my kernel’s TCP/IP	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	stack (ha, what a joke!) and all around dirty GNU hippy. Alan views	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	toothpaste the same way a vampire views garlic.	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	ridiculous	Mar 13 21:22
balzac	Then he zings ESR	Mar 13 21:23
balzac	And then we come to ESR. I won’t reiterate the sewer-dweller like cleansing	Mar 13 21:23
balzac	habits he practices as well, but I would like to focus on his general	Mar 13 21:23
balzac	lifestyle. I like to refer to ESR as AGB or “Arrogant Gas Baron.” The man’	Mar 13 21:23
balzac	s flatulence is legendary.	Mar 13 21:23
MinceR	(offtopic) http://xkcd.com/555/	Mar 13 21:23
balzac	Ok, Linus isn’t such a square afterall	Mar 13 21:23
balzac	he’s a real clown	Mar 13 21:23
balzac	I’d like to see him upgrade the Linux Kernel to GPLv3, but ultimately, I’m not attached to that goal.	Mar 13 21:24
balzac	I want to see Hurd development resume.	Mar 13 21:24
MinceR	balzac: sounds like someone who has run out of arguments (if he had any to begin with)	Mar 13 21:24
MinceR	hence, ad hominem.	Mar 13 21:24
schestowitz	Enjoy: http://torrentfreak.com/sxsw-20… SXSW 2009 on BitTorrent: 6 GB of Free Music	Mar 13 21:24
balzac	I’m less offended by his dry humor than I am by his intellectually-dishonest arguments against RMS and GPLv3	Mar 13 21:25
balzac	MinceR: I can only take those scathing comments as jokes because they’re so silly	Mar 13 21:25
schestowitz	http://sites.google.com/site/sxs…	Mar 13 21:27
_Hicham_	balzac:Linus is known for that	Mar 13 21:27
schestowitz	Download it	Mar 13 21:27
balzac	I mentioned that I thought Mark Shuttleworth was uneccessarily diplomatic. I prefer an environment of jocular trash-talking as demonstrated by Linus Torvald’s comments above	Mar 13 21:27
schestowitz	Make the MAFIAA angrier	Mar 13 21:27
schestowitz	Wait until the MAFIAA patents sounds	Mar 13 21:27
schestowitz	and then claims infringement of music patents or something	Mar 13 21:28
_Hicham_	Shuttleworth is at another position	Mar 13 21:28
balzac	_Hicham_: I don’t follow Linus very closely because he’s always trying to hog the spotlight, criticizing Richard Stallman.	Mar 13 21:28
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balzac	I think of Shuttleworth and Torvalds as leutenants and RMS as the 4-star general	Mar 13 21:29
balzac	or something like that…	Mar 13 21:29
_Hicham_	balzac : Linus have said : ” I am an egocentric person”	Mar 13 21:29
schestowitz	I get good speeds	Mar 13 21:30
schestowitz	6GB of music, RIAA-free.. nothing illegal	Mar 13 21:30
_Hicham_	but he has a big sense of humor	Mar 13 21:30
_Hicham_	and we all love him	Mar 13 21:30
schestowitz	balzac: : give Linus a break	Mar 13 21:30
schestowitz	He’s better off on our team	Mar 13 21:31
schestowitz	By alienating we divide further	Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_	Roy : it is not gonna divide us	Mar 13 21:31
schestowitz	RMS too tries to get along	Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_	we are just talking	Mar 13 21:31
MinceR	i like the community to be as diverse as it is.	Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_	yes	Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_	that is true	Mar 13 21:31
schestowitz	_Hicham_: let’s concntrate on real issues like Apple and MS	Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_	Roy : OK	Mar 13 21:32
schestowitz	Linus would be the wrong target, IMHO	Mar 13 21:32
_Hicham_	Roy : He is not a target	Mar 13 21:34
_Hicham_	We all love him	Mar 13 21:34
_Hicham_	balzac have a great sense of humor too	Mar 13 21:35
_Hicham_	let express oursleves freely	Mar 13 21:35
_Hicham_	by the way, have u ever used Octave?	Mar 13 21:37
schestowitz	Warner Music attacks babies < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/… >	Mar 13 21:38
balzac	_Hicham_ , my dad tells me to keep my sense of humor in a kryptonite box or I’ll be socially-ostracized	Mar 13 21:38
schestowitz	Bah. Who cares.. :p	Mar 13 21:39
_Hicham_	balzac : well, at least here u can express it freely	Mar 13 21:39
schestowitz	There’s something very fun about seeding these torrents	Mar 13 21:39
schestowitz	It’s sharing the love	Mar 13 21:39
schestowitz	Totally legal	Mar 13 21:40
balzac	Roy, LT is not a target as far as I’m concerned, but I like to retaliate when he rips on RMS. When he’s seriously criticizing, not when he’s joking.	Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz	An artists makes the songs free	Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz	Then all the people spread it through the networks worldwide.	Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz	It’s the ‘disease’ that scares the RIAA	Mar 13 21:40
balzac	http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/commun…	Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz	Suddenly their music is expensive	Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz	and CC kicks their asses	Mar 13 21:40
balzac	that’s my editorial piece hitting back at LT on behalf of RMS & the FSF	Mar 13 21:41
schestowitz	balzac: agreed	Mar 13 21:41
schestowitz	Another Finnish person had similar views, I think	Mar 13 21:41
schestowitz	Mickos	Mar 13 21:41
balzac	But Linus Torvalds doesn’t have a thin skin, so I’m not worried about his fragile ego.	Mar 13 21:41
trmanco	Microsoft-Novell Relationship Hits the Skids: https://slashdot.org/article.pl…	Mar 13 21:43
schestowitz		Mar 13 21:43
balzac	I don’t think Mark Shuttleworth is a cry-baby either. It’s the fanboys of the prominent figures who get bent out of shape.	Mar 13 21:43
trmanco	“So Novell, one of the biggest Linux distributors in the world, and Microsoft, one of the biggest companies in world history, couldn’t find a single large customer on Planet Earth to buy into Novell’s Suse Linux Enterprise Server software. “	Mar 13 21:44
balzac	The phrase the bloggers like to use is WATB (whiney-assed titty babies)	Mar 13 21:44
schestowitz	Good! FP too	Mar 13 21:44
schestowitz	That ought to raise awareness.	Mar 13 21:44
schestowitz	I’ll leave a quick comment	Mar 13 21:46
_Hicham_	microsoft used FreeBSD on their hotmail servers	Mar 13 21:47
trmanco	yeah, long time ago	Mar 13 21:47
balzac	with any luck, Novell and SuSE can extricate themselves from the lecherous embrace of Steve Ballmer	Mar 13 21:47
balzac	Ballmer could use a good nickname	Mar 13 21:48
trmanco	Ballnux	Mar 13 21:48
trmanco	BallusE	Mar 13 21:48
balzac	that’s SuSE Enterprise	Mar 13 21:48
balzac	But what about Ballmer himself?	Mar 13 21:48
balzac	he already has one: Monkey-Boy	Mar 13 21:48
trmanco	he is a broken Windows machine	Mar 13 21:48
balzac	bbiab	Mar 13 21:49
schestowitz	I don’t want to ruin my “excellent” karma	Mar 13 21:49
schestowitz	I said: “People still buy Red Hat. Check their numbers. Novell was warned (since the beginning of its relationship with Microsoft) that Microsoft ‘partners’ consistently get stabbed in the back. It took Novell a couple of years to take the toll.”	Mar 13 21:49
trmanco	it’s in some kind of infinite loop (the sweat), and when it hits the Climax (BSoD) he start jumping like a monkey	Mar 13 21:49
schestowitz	What?	Mar 13 21:51
schestowitz	balzac: if these numbers are true ( http://californiaquantum.wordpress.co… ), then Fedora may be the next Ubuntu, in terms of market share. F11 looks good so far.	Mar 13 21:53
_Hicham_	Roy : fedora has still a long way to go to be comparable to Ubuntu	Mar 13 21:53
schestowitz	It would be heathier to have an equal RPM/DEB split (Fedora and Mandriva vs Debian(s)/Buntus)	Mar 13 21:53
schestowitz	_Hicham_: they use the same componants	Mar 13 21:54
schestowitz	Including GNOME	Mar 13 21:54
schestowitz	You’re talking about it as though Fedora needs to implement something that Ubuntu got _for itself_	Mar 13 21:54
_Hicham_	Roy : Fedora needs to change their package format	Mar 13 21:54
_Hicham_	that is what i concluded	Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_	it is too slow	Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_	and more complicated	Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_	deb packages are easy to create and maintain	Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_	even for a newbie	Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_	yum is still a mess compared to apt	Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_	RedHat is a great company, but they are just stubborn about rpm and yum	Mar 13 21:57
*schestowitz can’t wait for the torrents to finish. Tired of listening to these old Nas CDs		Mar 13 21:57
schestowitz	_Hicham_: Mandriva handles RPMs nicely	Mar 13 21:58
schestowitz	Never given me any problem	Mar 13 21:58
schestowitz	Not even outside repos (downloads as RPMs)	Mar 13 21:58
_Hicham_	maybe urmpi has evolved	Mar 13 21:58
_Hicham_	i didnt use it for a while	Mar 13 21:58
schestowitz	I had spotless experiences with Ubuntu repos too	Mar 13 21:59
_Hicham_	in any way, i always think that they must be a universal packages management mechanism	Mar 13 21:59
_Hicham_	since package management is basically the same	Mar 13 21:59
_Hicham_	an abstraction of deb and rpm format	Mar 13 22:00
_Hicham_	that would make things easier to distribute	Mar 13 22:00
_Hicham_	package management is all about dependencies	Mar 13 22:00
_Hicham_	yum and apt both resolve dependencies	Mar 13 22:01
_Hicham_	but apt is praised to be more efficient	Mar 13 22:01
_Hicham_	rpm is installed by default in ubuntu	Mar 13 22:02
_Hicham_	yum is available in official repo	Mar 13 22:02
_Hicham_	so u could use them both to produce binaries	Mar 13 22:02
schestowitz	Fun article: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/n… (Computer Data Storage Through the Ages — From Punch Cards to Blu-Ray)	Mar 13 22:03
schestowitz	F*	Mar 13 22:07
schestowitz	I think my torrent overload the pipe	Mar 13 22:07
schestowitz	Totally legal	Mar 13 22:07
schestowitz	But daemonised	Mar 13 22:07
schestowitz	SourceForge Announces Support for Git, Bazaar and Mercurial…	Mar 13 22:09
schestowitz	brb dinner	Mar 13 22:11
_Hicham_	bring back some food with u	Mar 13 22:13
_Hicham_		Mar 13 22:14
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Balrog_	don’t know if you learned, but	Mar 13 22:20
Balrog_	iPod Touch 2G is jailbroken	Mar 13 22:21
MinceR	why jailbreak it if you can get a digital music player that’s functional by default?	Mar 13 22:22
MinceR	with warranty	Mar 13 22:22
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Balrog_	which one???	Mar 13 22:22
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Balrog_	btw, jailbreak does NOT void warranty	Mar 13 22:22
Balrog_	there is ROM recovery mode	Mar 13 22:22
MinceR	for example, something from Cowon	Mar 13 22:22
Balrog_	not the same quality	Mar 13 22:23
Balrog_	the ipod-touch community is large	Mar 13 22:23
schestowitz	Not what it sounds like: Worm blamed for laptop crash < http://www.khanya.co.za/blogs/index… >	Mar 13 22:24
schestowitz	“Mark Taylor’s laptop recently crashed because of a worm . But the worm was of a different type. It was a 12 centimeter long earthworm, which crawled into an air vent of his laptop and coiled itself around a cooling fan. The result? The laptop overheated.”	Mar 13 22:24
MinceR	what does a community of apple fanboys have to do with quality?	Mar 13 22:24
MinceR	please make some sense.	Mar 13 22:24
Balrog_	not fanboys	Mar 13 22:25
Balrog_	the dev community	Mar 13 22:25
Balrog_	like Jay Freeman and all those guys	Mar 13 22:25
Balrog_	also, which platform can I get more applications (of any kind) for?	Mar 13 22:26
Balrog_	iPod Touch wins fast.	Mar 13 22:26
schestowitz	LOL http://linux.slashdot.org/comme…	Mar 13 22:26
schestowitz	Perens on Novell	Mar 13 22:26
Balrog_	more ‘jailbreak’ apps, more ‘official’ apps	Mar 13 22:26
schestowitz	“OK, cue the violins! Now, all of you at once!AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! “	Mar 13 22:26
MinceR	Balrog_: palmos, windows mobile?	Mar 13 22:29
Balrog_	MinceR: buggy as ****	Mar 13 22:30
Balrog_	both of those	Mar 13 22:30
Balrog_	Android is decent	Mar 13 22:30
MinceR	now please argue that apple software is bugless so i can laugh loudly at you	Mar 13 22:30
Balrog_	but then again, no music player has it	Mar 13 22:30
MinceR	and then so i can feel really sorry for you	Mar 13 22:30
Balrog_	No, Apple software has fewer bugs than both palmos and windows mobile	Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_	it’s like	Mar 13 22:31
MinceR	also, apparently you don’t mind design flaws at all	Mar 13 22:31
MinceR	like the one that makes you _jailbreak_ the damn thing to begin with	Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_	windows Mobile ——- PalmOS ——————– Apple OS ——– (0-bugs)	Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_	definitely not bug-free	Mar 13 22:31
schestowitz	Perens and Allison on FAT and GPL: http://news.slashdot.org…	Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_	but I’ve had experience with palm	Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_	no fun :/	Mar 13 22:31
MinceR	see people, this is the Reality Distortion Field in action	Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_	so does Android make you jailbreak	Mar 13 22:31
MinceR	android is almost as crap, yes	Mar 13 22:32
Balrog_	Of iPhone OS, Palm OS, and Windows Mobile, iPhone OS has the fewest bugs	Mar 13 22:32
Balrog_	in my experiences	Mar 13 22:32
Balrog_	yes, it still has bugs	Mar 13 22:33
Balrog_	sometimes safari quits unexpectedly, among other things	Mar 13 22:33
MinceR	by the way, if we’re counting locked-down crap like the iphone os, let’s not forget symbian either	Mar 13 22:34
schestowitz	Black Duck (sounds like Black F*) is once again FUDing FOSS: http://www.informationweek.com/news/…	Mar 13 22:34
schestowitz	The company was founded by a Microsoft employee	Mar 13 22:34
Balrog_	I haven’t used it, but I don’t believe symbian is UNIX-based (POSIX-compliant, optional [though may need to jailbreak] Terminal app, etc) or has as many quality apps	Mar 13 22:35
MinceR	please remind me, when did we make “unix-based” a criterion here?	Mar 13 22:36
Balrog_	can you jailbreak symbian, and do interesting stuff on it?	Mar 13 22:36
MinceR	how far will you bend over backwards in your futile attempts to make apple crap look like it’s usable?	Mar 13 22:37
schestowitz	Adobe still doesn’t get it: Adobe: ‘Open’ But Not Always Open Source < http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/ar… >	Mar 13 22:37
MinceR	yes, symbian can be jailbroken too	Mar 13 22:37
MinceR	and yes, it’s a pain to do	Mar 13 22:37
Balrog_	apple stuff is very usable. I get much more use out of it than any other stuff. Sure, Linux is close behind, but that is how it is	Mar 13 22:37
Balrog_	(speaking from experience, not politics)	Mar 13 22:38
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MinceR	and continuing your reasoning, apple stuff is not very usable because i get less use out of it than any other stuff.	Mar 13 22:40
Balrog_	that’s your experience	Mar 13 22:40
Balrog_	but I don’t know if you ever tried to use it or not	Mar 13 22:40
MinceR	which is by no means less valuable than yours	Mar 13 22:40
MinceR	i have tried to use osx and it sucked	Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_	for how long?	Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_	a day? a week? a month?	Mar 13 22:41
MinceR	it didn’t live up to a millionth of the hype	Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_	what version?	Mar 13 22:41
MinceR	i didn’t measure it; whatever version someone offered as a vmware vm	Mar 13 22:41
MinceR	s/vm/image/	Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_	heh, there’s a problem	Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_	and how long?	Mar 13 22:42
MinceR	dunno	Mar 13 22:42
MinceR	i got tired of the ui pretty quickly	Mar 13 22:42
Balrog_	well you’re used to stuff that many people hate	Mar 13 22:42
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Balrog_	like mouse focus	Mar 13 22:43
Balrog_	as I said, layering windows works fine for me	Mar 13 22:43
Balrog_	and there are virtual desktops	Mar 13 22:43
MinceR	i’m used to stuff that works, thank-you-very-much	Mar 13 22:44
Balrog_	ms windows doesn’t have mouse focus	Mar 13 22:44
MinceR	while apple fanboys haven’t even experimented with settings	Mar 13 22:44
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MinceR	windows is crap, too	Mar 13 22:44
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MinceR	even then, windows is more flexible than osx	Mar 13 22:44
MinceR	and it has a taskbar :>	Mar 13 22:44
Balrog_	I hate that taskbar	Mar 13 22:45
MinceR	i expected that	Mar 13 22:45
Balrog_	when I use windows, it gets full so quickly that it becomes useless	Mar 13 22:45
MinceR	yeah, not like you can resize it… oh, wait	Mar 13 22:45
*Balrog_ likes having dozens of windows open at once		Mar 13 22:45
*MinceR has them too		Mar 13 22:45
Balrog_	yeah, then it takes over an insane amount of space	Mar 13 22:45
MinceR	yeah, that’s what autohide is for	Mar 13 22:45
MinceR	or a widescreen monitor	Mar 13 22:46
Balrog_	I’ve used that too	Mar 13 22:46
Balrog_	but also you can’t easily identify which is which	Mar 13 22:46
MinceR	i can	Mar 13 22:46
MinceR	perhaps you can’t :>	Mar 13 22:46
Balrog_	well I find the taskbar very inefficient	Mar 13 22:46
Balrog_	maybe you don’t	Mar 13 22:46
MinceR	it’s the best idea m$ stole from arthur/risc os	Mar 13 22:47
Balrog_	many say it’s a bad idea	Mar 13 22:47
Balrog_	apparently you don’t think so	Mar 13 22:47
MinceR	apparently	Mar 13 22:48
schestowitz	taskbar is bad metaphor	Mar 13 22:48
schestowitz	KDE imitates it	Mar 13 22:48
MinceR	quick, tell me that i’m the only person in the world who thinks it’s a good idea	Mar 13 22:48
schestowitz	Task and systray are similar	Mar 13 22:48
schestowitz	i tried awn for a while	Mar 13 22:48
MinceR	metaphors are overrated	Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz	crap too	Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz	Just toss your apps in the designated desktops and call it a day	Mar 13 22:49
MinceR	apple fanboys keep claiming how intuitive their favorite crap is	Mar 13 22:49
Balrog_	well on os x I don’t use the taskbar for app switching, rather cmd-tab	Mar 13 22:49
MinceR	it isn’t	Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz	CTRL+Fx for switching	Mar 13 22:49
Balrog_	the taskbar is more useful for opening apps	Mar 13 22:49
MinceR	no interface is intuitive, everything is learned	Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz	taskbar is good for group handling	Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz	Only in KDE though	Mar 13 22:49
Balrog_	s/taskbar/dock	Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz	Like ‘minimise all’	Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz	20 windows sometimes	Mar 13 22:50
Balrog_	and os x lets you hide all of an app’s windows	Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz	MinceR: agreed	Mar 13 22:50
Balrog_	or yes, hide all temporarily	Mar 13 22:50
MinceR	and if you don’t agree, get a windows fanboy to try osx and ask him	Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz	Speaking of interface, a friend mailed me this some minutes ago: “As his article says, Cinelerra is capable of some really kick-ass effects. It is really on par almost feature for feature with Final Cut Pro, except for some effects.	Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz	“It give you highly granular control over your work, but as you can tell from the GUI screenshots on his blog, it is highly complex and requires a good bit of study, and, as his blog implies, some really serious horsepower if you are going to get maximum use of the power of Cinelerra.”	Mar 13 22:50
Balrog_	try to get a windows fanboy to try linux as well	Mar 13 22:51
MinceR	or check how many questions does a _real_ newb ask when learning osx	Mar 13 22:51
schestowitz	Cinelerra is advanced and complex	Mar 13 22:51
MinceR	Balrog_: the point is the same: no ui is intuitive	Mar 13 22:51
schestowitz	“But of course, for the cost of Final Cut Pro, you could actually afford the kind of kick-ass machine he is describing, and then run Cinelerra (soon to become Lumiera) on it. “	Mar 13 22:51
Balrog_	a _real_ newb is someone who hasn’t tried windows or linux OR os x	Mar 13 22:51
MinceR	Balrog_: exactly	Mar 13 22:51
schestowitz	He prefers Kino anyway	Mar 13 22:51
schestowitz	Much simpler	Mar 13 22:51
MinceR	Balrog_: note my clever use of the word ‘or’	Mar 13 22:51
Balrog_	with os x I get much more done than with windows (and some more than with Linux)	Mar 13 22:52
schestowitz	“Thanks so much for sending me that link! I am really excited by the fact that people are starting to see that video editing can be simple under GNU-Linux. It is so important that we (the FOSS community) are seen as sexy and attractive, because we need to do a much better job of pulling in new users, so that when we are attacked as in the TomTom example, we will have more people on our side to fight along with us. “	Mar 13 22:52
schestowitz	“Success is no longer a technological issue, it is now a political issue. Video editing is something that can make use look cool and sexy. “	Mar 13 22:52
MinceR	Balrog_: afaik kde can be configured to use most of the stupid ideas of the osx ui — have you tried that?	Mar 13 22:52
schestowitz	Munchkins (even Apple users) throw mud at Linux over video	Mar 13 22:52
MinceR	well, maybe not the random button order	Mar 13 22:52
Balrog_	explain where to configure. I’ve tried kde and it’s rather messy	Mar 13 22:52
MinceR	i’m not sure if that’s configurable in any gui	Mar 13 22:52
Balrog_	Random button order???	Mar 13 22:53
Balrog_	elaborate	Mar 13 22:53
schestowitz	AV is quite all right at the FOSS level. At proprietary levels it’s fine for HOLLYWOOD studios	Mar 13 22:53
schestowitz	Mac software for video editing is typically processed by Linux servers too	Mar 13 22:53
MinceR	where they put OK on the right (where someone who reads left to right looks last) and the other buttons in random order	Mar 13 22:53
Balrog_	schestowitz: I’m not sure about that	Mar 13 22:53
MinceR	(and by OK, i mean default confirm/action button :> )	Mar 13 22:53
Balrog_	but I do know that Linux is used for other stuff, not editing	Mar 13 22:54
MinceR	(or whatever your favorite “experts” like to call it)	Mar 13 22:54
Balrog_	MinceR: I find it not-so-random	Mar 13 22:54
MinceR	yeah, linux isn’t used for editing. i wonder what cinepaint is for, then	Mar 13 22:54
_Hicham_	AV is super great on Linux	Mar 13 22:54
Balrog_	what third-party programmers do is their business	Mar 13 22:54
MinceR	and why do studios keep claiming they use linux for editing	Mar 13 22:54
_Hicham_	Avidemux for Example	Mar 13 22:55
Balrog_	I meant, it is used, but not as widely	Mar 13 22:55
_Hicham_	it processes videos on the fly	Mar 13 22:55
MinceR	ooh, now we’re in the vague unverifiable statements territory	Mar 13 22:55
Balrog_	cinepaint isn’t considered exactly editing by the strict definition	Mar 13 22:55
MinceR	yeah, it’s just magic	Mar 13 22:55
schestowitz	trmanco: new wine, new linux -rc	Mar 13 22:56
MinceR	as for apple’s button ordering not being random — sure, they have a couple of stupid rules, but all they end up doing is that…	Mar 13 22:56
schestowitz	Balrog: rendering and editing	Mar 13 22:56
trmanco	schestowitz, yes	Mar 13 22:56
MinceR	1) reading left to right (like a normal person using an english gui would) i find the confirm button last	Mar 13 22:56
trmanco	I forgot to mention that	Mar 13 22:57
MinceR	2) i generally want to do the actions i initiate so this wastes my time	Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz	Balrog: studios moved from UNIX (Solaris sometimes) to Linux	Mar 13 22:57
MinceR	3) and as an added bonus, they set off a random button to the left edge so it takes even more time to process)	Mar 13 22:57
MinceR	s/.$//	Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz	They don’t need Aqua and stuff to just run their high-end wares	Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz	RHEL does the job	Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz	Same in Intel	Mar 13 22:57
MinceR	all hail the “usability experts” who have managed to waste the user’s time with a few clever rules	Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz	HCI reminds me of INNOVA~1	Mar 13 22:58
schestowitz	In egenral, USABIL~1 is like INNOVA~1	Mar 13 22:58
MinceR	on the subject of usability, the menubar on the top is because they didn’t interpret Fitt’s law correctly	Mar 13 22:58
schestowitz	Man: “why should I buy your product?”	Mar 13 22:58
MinceR	yeah	Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz	Woman salesment: “we offer innovation”	Mar 13 22:59
MinceR	m$ fanboys use the INNOVA~1 curse word	Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz	“it’s more expensive because ity’s intuitive”	Mar 13 22:59
MinceR	crApple fanboys use the USABIL~1 curse word	Mar 13 22:59
trmanco	USABILITY -> USABI#%	Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz	Ballmer likes the INNOVA~1 junk	Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz	That guy Larry Cohen was feeding BillG and SweatyB this stuff	Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz	You see this in the talking points memo he prepared for them	Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz	it’s all makretingf	Mar 13 23:00
MinceR	i don’t know who Larry Cohen is	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	I can find that memo	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	very funny	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	Make no mistake	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	It’s deliberate	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	it;s hypnosius	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	brainwash if you like	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	They need to recite it in interview and people believe it	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	Apple harps about “easy”	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	Linux… well, it’s has a 1337 image	Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz	Whcih doesn’t appeal from a marketing standpoint	Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz	MinceR: search BN	Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz	He quite MS last month	Mar 13 23:01
MinceR	perhaps apple fanboys buy so heavily into that crap because they’ve spent more on it	Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz	*quit	Mar 13 23:01
MinceR	(i mean money)	Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02…	Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz	It’s one of the marketing clowns	Mar 13 23:02
MinceR	apple crap is expensive so they’ve got to justify the expenditure somehow	Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz	His role is to manage how MS comminuicted with the world that it robs	Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz	“Talking points” memo here:	Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0…/	Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz	Oops. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01…	Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz	Hilarious	Mar 13 23:02
MinceR	Larry Cohen stayed with his beloved Pearly though	Mar 13 23:02
MinceR	(btw, another nifty thing i’d like to see major GUIs ‘steal’ from arthur/risc os is that the main menu is on right click)	Mar 13 23:04
Balrog_	main menu?	Mar 13 23:04
MinceR	what’s the menu bar in most guis	Mar 13 23:05
schestowitz	Report: Microsoft U.S. Search Share Hits 12-month Low < http://www.pcworld.com/article/161222/… >	Mar 13 23:07
schestowitz	MinceR: of course	Mar 13 23:07
schestowitz	THigher up the pyramid	Mar 13 23:07
schestowitz	*Higher	Mar 13 23:07
schestowitz	@trmanco : it’s news when Gmail goes down (not normal for Wintel press), not when Hotmail goes down as it just did.	Mar 13 23:09
MinceR	wow, Panda Security has released a fix to a security hole that’s been in all windows versions since 95 >> http://www.pandasecurity.com/homeu…	Mar 13 23:09
schestowitz	START me up!! Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh	Mar 13 23:10
MinceR		Mar 13 23:10
MinceR	Start/Shutdown…	Mar 13 23:10
schestowitz	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbCmnRztK1Y	Mar 13 23:11
schestowitz	Shut this man down	Mar 13 23:11
MinceR	lock him up	Mar 13 23:11
MinceR	make him do work for once in his life	Mar 13 23:12
Balrog_	come on	Mar 13 23:12
Balrog_	you can disable that with tweakui	Mar 13 23:13
schestowitz	“COmon!!!”	Mar 13 23:13
schestowitz	Give it up..	Mar 13 23:13
MinceR	yes, and i can disble the rest of the security holes with dd or fsck	Mar 13 23:13
MinceR	or a kubuntu install disk	Mar 13 23:13
MinceR	s/sb/sab/	Mar 13 23:13
Balrog_	I’m stuck with people who require windows	Mar 13 23:14
MinceR	doesn’t change the fact that it’s on by default and hard to disable	Mar 13 23:14
MinceR	it’s just like the iPoo DontTouch/jesusPhone thing	Mar 13 23:14
Balrog_	???	Mar 13 23:14
MinceR	sure it can be hammered into something not entirely useless	Mar 13 23:14
MinceR	but why bother if you can get superior products?	Mar 13 23:14
Balrog_	no, windows can’t	Mar 13 23:14
Balrog_	I’ve tried in the past, but it’s useless	Mar 13 23:15
trmanco	schestowitz, what can we do…	Mar 13 23:17
trmanco	oh, that was a tweet	Mar 13 23:18
trmanco	just saw it	Mar 13 23:18
schestowitz	I’ll post it to COLA	Mar 13 23:18
schestowitz	The Munckins will ignore	Mar 13 23:18
schestowitz	http://www.linuxdevices.com/ne… “According to Via, the VX855 supports Linux, Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP..” WAIT wait wait… there IS. No. Windows. 7.	Mar 13 23:20
trmanco	Ubuntu! Cool! Playtime!!!: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.fr…	Mar 13 23:23
trmanco		Mar 13 23:23
schestowitz	yuck: http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux…	Mar 13 23:26
schestowitz	mono devs there (packagers)	Mar 13 23:26
schestowitz	Check out the mouseover effect they do here with CSS: http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/soa/X…	Mar 13 23:32
schestowitz	I’ve looked at page sort, it looks quite elegant.	Mar 13 23:32
_Hicham_	moonlight is available in Ubuntu	Mar 13 23:33
schestowitz	Is Ubuntu Taking Over? Should I Follow? < http://jjmacey.net/blog/?p=236 >	Mar 13 23:33
_Hicham_	http://packages.ubuntu.com/jau…	Mar 13 23:33
_Hicham_	Roy : I think that Ubuntu will even help install moonlight as it does for flash	Mar 13 23:34
_Hicham_	what do u think?	Mar 13 23:36
_Hicham_	Ubuntu is better than windows anyway	Mar 13 23:39
trmanco	schestowitz, http://identi.ca/notice/2776615	Mar 13 23:39
trmanco	you can now post notices by email	Mar 13 23:39
trmanco	schestowitz, have a look at my tags now	Mar 13 23:40
schestowitz	I know	Mar 13 23:41
schestowitz	They did maintenance	Mar 13 23:42
schestowitz	Afterwards I started getting mail alerts	Mar 13 23:42
trmanco	deativate them	Mar 13 23:42
schestowitz	_Hicham_: Microsoft uses Novell to poison Linux	Mar 13 23:42
schestowitz	Canonical takes the bait IMHO	Mar 13 23:42
trmanco	deactivate “Send me email when someone sends me an “@-reply”.”	Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz	Just left a comment in: http://blogs.computerworld.com/pc_ven…	Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz	It annoyed me that he didn’t just tell his readers what was REALLY happening	Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz	Lenovo take Microsoft money to shaft Linux	Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz	That’s what’s happening	Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz	And we have leaked proof of this	Mar 13 23:44
schestowitz	trmanco: no, I’m fine with alerts, they get filtered into a separate mail account and directory	Mar 13 23:44
trmanco	ah ok	Mar 13 23:44
balzac	23:50 <@schestowitz> Canonical takes the bait IMHO	Mar 13 23:45
balzac	Redhat too, wouldn’t you say?	Mar 13 23:45
balzac	It’s as if they’re both either ignorant, or afraid MS silverlie is going to catch on as a format, and they don’t want to be incompatible with the “next flash”	Mar 13 23:46
schestowitz	I have good /. karma	Mar 13 23:49
schestowitz	I start at almost 5, I think.	Mar 13 23:49
schestowitz	balzac: not quite	Mar 13 23:49
schestowitz	I hear from Red Hat people	Mar 13 23:49
schestowitz	[H]omer_ has ‘em scouring his site	Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz	They still study with concern	Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz	Same with RMS AFAIK	Mar 13 23:50
_Hicham_	Roy : what would happen if Microsoft go bankrupt?	Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz	They probably just don’t want to: 1) alientate Novell	Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz	2) leave spoiled users stranded	Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz	Some people won’t understand “there’s a patent issue” or “it’s not good to adopt .NET”	Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz	They just “want things to work”	Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz	Linus Torvalds mentality	Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz	_Hicham_: big feast	Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz	But they’d get govt protection first	Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz	It’s a corrupt government there	Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz	They also gave SGI a lieline	Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz	Formerly Silicon Graphics	Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz	And Microsoft is trying to pry people’s medical data off them	Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz	For this reason	Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz	No Microsoft=medical mess	Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz	They create entanglements in he system	Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz	BTW, just got this nice mail:	Mar 13 23:52
_Hicham_	Microsoft killed OpenGL on windows with their implementation	Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz	Re: http://slashdot.org/comment…	Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz	“I do like Novell, because they give lots of drivers to the FOSS community, stuff that no other company likes to do, but as Roy has ably pointed out, they made some unnecessary mistakes in this deal with Microsoft. I think that as time goes by, more and more people will see the wisdom of many of Roy’s criticisms of Novell, particularly as a result of this deal.”	Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz	“We must hold up the mirror to our own community and see the mistakes that we have made, and Roy’s efforts in this regard are a great service to the community. And I do notice that there are less and less of the comments these days denigrating Roy’s work and more and more people are taking him seriously. “	Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz	“I think that this story shifts just that much more weight over to Roy’s side regarding the questionable wisdom of the Novell – Microsoft deal. “	Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz	This was actually sent to a group	Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz	_Hicham_: yes, that was seen before the baby bastard called Vista got emitted from mothership’s belly	Mar 13 23:53
schestowitz	Something about implementation as abstraction under DX10	Mar 13 23:53
schestowitz	Like virtualisation in a way… or emulation… to use analogies.	Mar 13 23:54
schestowitz	This discourages game developers who might GASP choose OpenGL, which works in other platforms	Mar 13 23:54
schestowitz	Look at DirectX material in BN	Mar 13 23:54
schestowitz	Microsoft deliberately deviated	Mar 13 23:54
schestowitz	Because they are anti-competitive shameless monsters	Mar 13 23:55
schestowitz	OpenGL works on other platfforms?	Mar 13 23:55
schestowitz	“That’s good for the consumer but bad for us. Let’s sabotage that…”	Mar 13 23:55
_Hicham_	even though DX9 was eating the market	Mar 13 23:56
schestowitz	_Hicham_: start here: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:…	Mar 13 23:56
schestowitz	I gave many references	Mar 13 23:56
schestowitz	It’s more difficult to refute when I don’t throw statements out in the air.	Mar 13 23:56
schestowitz	Footnotes, refs, corss-citations for context, etc.	Mar 13 23:57
schestowitz	BN turned into quite a project with tens of thousands of external links and hundreds of courts exhibits	Mar 13 23:57
schestowitz	*Court	Mar 13 23:57
schestowitz	Watch the National Debt from the Command Line < http://www.linuxjournal.com/vid… > Blob required.	Mar 13 23:59

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