03.13.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 13th, 2009 – Part 3

Posted in IRC Logs at 11:39 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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_Hicham_ that is what i like about it Mar 13 20:52
_Hicham_ everything is neatly done in a professional way Mar 13 20:52
_Hicham_ no need to think about the layout Mar 13 20:53
_Hicham_ it is the de facto standard in scientific documents Mar 13 20:54
_Hicham_ I ve read about Kile Mar 13 20:55
_Hicham_ but I didnt use it, since I have gnome Mar 13 20:55
_Hicham_ and KDE apps do not fit very well on gnome Mar 13 20:56
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schestowitz I hope PJ is properly back now that the RSS feeds are back. Contributions to good causes outlast some hardships. PJ too has taken her much-deserved break. We all do. Mar 13 21:04
schestowitz Hehe. re JZuck someone says: “I like him because you know what you get and they are easily attackable.” Mar 13 21:04
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schestowitz *LOL* http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/… Mar 13 21:08
schestowitz Security vs. privacy? Reinterpreting the Fourth Amendment < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news… > Mar 13 21:08
schestowitz Easy to get ‘promoted’ from gutter level: MPAA announces major promotions < http://www.filmjournal.com/filmjournal/con… > Mar 13 21:13
balzac Roy, I read that link you posted on Linus Torvald’s trash-talking Mar 13 21:20
balzac I have to admit, the guy has a sense of humor Mar 13 21:21
balzac It can’t be interpreted any other way than as dry humor Mar 13 21:21
balzac http://www.softpanorama.org/Peopl… Mar 13 21:21
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balzac The person I have the greatest problem with is that (in)famous communist Mar 13 21:22
balzac RMS. Now, RMS may have been responsible for GNU, the GPL, GCC and many Mar 13 21:22
balzac other contributions to the computing community, but his stance, as well as Mar 13 21:22
balzac stench, displayed in his essays and actions, nauseates me. I mean, with Mar 13 21:22
balzac people refer to Linux as GNU / Linux? Mar 13 21:22
balzac that filth-ridden beard of his, where does he have room to demand that Mar 13 21:22
balzac that’s pretty silly Mar 13 21:22
balzac obviously sarcastic Mar 13 21:22
balzac Next in line of dirty scuzz-balls I have to deal with, and probably the Mar 13 21:22
balzac worst thorn in my side, is Alan Cox, the primary coder of my kernel’s TCP/IP Mar 13 21:22
balzac stack (ha, what a joke!) and all around dirty GNU hippy. Alan views Mar 13 21:22
balzac toothpaste the same way a vampire views garlic. Mar 13 21:22
balzac ridiculous Mar 13 21:22
balzac Then he zings ESR Mar 13 21:23
balzac And then we come to ESR. I won’t reiterate the sewer-dweller like cleansing Mar 13 21:23
balzac habits he practices as well, but I would like to focus on his general Mar 13 21:23
balzac lifestyle. I like to refer to ESR as AGB or “Arrogant Gas Baron.” The man’ Mar 13 21:23
balzac s flatulence is legendary. Mar 13 21:23
MinceR (offtopic) http://xkcd.com/555/ Mar 13 21:23
balzac Ok, Linus isn’t such a square afterall Mar 13 21:23
balzac he’s a real clown Mar 13 21:23
balzac I’d like to see him upgrade the Linux Kernel to GPLv3, but ultimately, I’m not attached to that goal. Mar 13 21:24
balzac I want to see Hurd development resume. Mar 13 21:24
MinceR balzac: sounds like someone who has run out of arguments (if he had any to begin with) Mar 13 21:24
MinceR hence, ad hominem. Mar 13 21:24
schestowitz Enjoy: http://torrentfreak.com/sxsw-20… SXSW 2009 on BitTorrent: 6 GB of Free Music Mar 13 21:24
balzac I’m less offended by his dry humor than I am by his intellectually-dishonest arguments against RMS and GPLv3 Mar 13 21:25
balzac MinceR: I can only take those scathing comments as jokes because they’re so silly Mar 13 21:25
schestowitz http://sites.google.com/site/sxs… Mar 13 21:27
_Hicham_ balzac:Linus is known for that Mar 13 21:27
schestowitz Download it Mar 13 21:27
balzac I mentioned that I thought Mark Shuttleworth was uneccessarily diplomatic. I prefer an environment of jocular trash-talking as demonstrated by Linus Torvald’s comments above Mar 13 21:27
schestowitz Make the MAFIAA angrier Mar 13 21:27
schestowitz Wait until the MAFIAA patents sounds Mar 13 21:27
schestowitz and then claims infringement of music patents or something Mar 13 21:28
_Hicham_ Shuttleworth is at another position Mar 13 21:28
balzac _Hicham_: I don’t follow Linus very closely because he’s always trying to hog the spotlight, criticizing Richard Stallman. Mar 13 21:28
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balzac I think of Shuttleworth and Torvalds as leutenants and RMS as the 4-star general Mar 13 21:29
balzac or something like that… Mar 13 21:29
_Hicham_ balzac : Linus have said : ” I am an egocentric person” Mar 13 21:29
schestowitz I get good speeds Mar 13 21:30
schestowitz 6GB of music, RIAA-free.. nothing illegal Mar 13 21:30
_Hicham_ but he has a big sense of humor Mar 13 21:30
_Hicham_ and we all love him Mar 13 21:30
schestowitz balzac: : give Linus a break Mar 13 21:30
schestowitz He’s better off on our team Mar 13 21:31
schestowitz By alienating we divide further Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_ Roy : it is not gonna divide us Mar 13 21:31
schestowitz RMS too tries to get along Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_ we are just talking Mar 13 21:31
MinceR i like the community to be as diverse as it is. :) Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_ yes Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_ that is true Mar 13 21:31
schestowitz _Hicham_: let’s concntrate on real issues like Apple and MS Mar 13 21:31
_Hicham_ Roy : OK Mar 13 21:32
schestowitz Linus would be the wrong target, IMHO Mar 13 21:32
_Hicham_ Roy : He is not a target Mar 13 21:34
_Hicham_ We all love him Mar 13 21:34
_Hicham_ balzac have a great sense of humor too Mar 13 21:35
_Hicham_ let express oursleves freely Mar 13 21:35
_Hicham_ by the way, have u ever used Octave? Mar 13 21:37
schestowitz Warner Music attacks babies  < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/… > Mar 13 21:38
balzac _Hicham_ , my dad tells me to keep my sense of humor in a kryptonite box or I’ll be socially-ostracized Mar 13 21:38
schestowitz Bah. Who cares.. :p Mar 13 21:39
_Hicham_ balzac : well, at least here u can express it freely Mar 13 21:39
schestowitz There’s something very fun about seeding these torrents Mar 13 21:39
schestowitz It’s sharing the love Mar 13 21:39
schestowitz Totally legal Mar 13 21:40
balzac Roy, LT is not a target as far as I’m concerned, but I like to retaliate when he rips on RMS. When he’s seriously criticizing, not when he’s joking. Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz An artists makes the songs free Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz Then all the people spread it through the networks worldwide. Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz It’s the ‘disease’ that scares the RIAA Mar 13 21:40
balzac http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/commun… Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz Suddenly their music is expensive Mar 13 21:40
schestowitz and CC kicks their asses Mar 13 21:40
balzac that’s my editorial piece hitting back at LT on behalf of RMS & the FSF Mar 13 21:41
schestowitz balzac: agreed Mar 13 21:41
schestowitz Another Finnish person had similar views, I think Mar 13 21:41
schestowitz Mickos Mar 13 21:41
balzac But Linus Torvalds doesn’t have a thin skin, so I’m not worried about his fragile ego. Mar 13 21:41
trmanco Microsoft-Novell Relationship Hits the Skids: https://slashdot.org/article.pl… Mar 13 21:43
schestowitz :-) Mar 13 21:43
balzac I don’t think Mark Shuttleworth is a cry-baby either. It’s the fanboys of the prominent figures who get bent out of shape. Mar 13 21:43
trmanco “So Novell, one of the biggest Linux distributors in the world, and Microsoft, one of the biggest companies in world history, couldn’t find a single large customer on Planet Earth to buy into Novell’s Suse Linux Enterprise Server software. “ Mar 13 21:44
balzac The phrase the bloggers like to use is WATB (whiney-assed titty babies) Mar 13 21:44
schestowitz Good! FP too Mar 13 21:44
schestowitz That ought to raise awareness. Mar 13 21:44
schestowitz I’ll leave a quick comment Mar 13 21:46
_Hicham_ microsoft used FreeBSD on their hotmail servers Mar 13 21:47
trmanco yeah, long time ago Mar 13 21:47
balzac with any luck, Novell and SuSE can extricate themselves from the lecherous embrace of Steve Ballmer Mar 13 21:47
balzac Ballmer could use a good nickname Mar 13 21:48
trmanco Ballnux Mar 13 21:48
trmanco BallusE Mar 13 21:48
balzac that’s SuSE Enterprise Mar 13 21:48
balzac But what about Ballmer himself? Mar 13 21:48
balzac he already has one: Monkey-Boy Mar 13 21:48
trmanco he is a broken Windows machine Mar 13 21:48
balzac bbiab Mar 13 21:49
schestowitz I don’t want to ruin my “excellent” karma Mar 13 21:49
schestowitz I said: “People still buy Red Hat. Check their numbers. Novell was warned (since the beginning of its relationship with Microsoft) that Microsoft ‘partners’ consistently get stabbed in the back. It took Novell a couple of years to take the toll.” Mar 13 21:49
trmanco it’s in some kind of infinite loop (the sweat), and when it hits the Climax (BSoD) he start jumping like a monkey Mar 13 21:49
schestowitz What? Mar 13 21:51
schestowitz balzac: if these numbers are true ( http://californiaquantum.wordpress.co… ), then Fedora may be the next Ubuntu, in terms of market share. F11 looks good so far. Mar 13 21:53
_Hicham_ Roy : fedora has still a long way to go to be comparable to Ubuntu Mar 13 21:53
schestowitz It would be heathier to have an equal RPM/DEB split (Fedora and Mandriva vs Debian(s)/Buntus) Mar 13 21:53
schestowitz _Hicham_: they use the same componants Mar 13 21:54
schestowitz Including GNOME Mar 13 21:54
schestowitz You’re talking about it as though Fedora needs to implement something that Ubuntu got _for itself_ Mar 13 21:54
_Hicham_ Roy : Fedora needs to change their package format Mar 13 21:54
_Hicham_ that is what i concluded Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_ it is too slow Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_ and more complicated Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_ deb packages are easy to create and maintain Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_ even for a newbie Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_ yum is still a mess compared to apt Mar 13 21:55
_Hicham_ RedHat is a great company, but they are just stubborn about rpm and yum Mar 13 21:57
*schestowitz can’t wait for the torrents to finish. Tired of listening to these old Nas CDs Mar 13 21:57
schestowitz _Hicham_: Mandriva handles RPMs nicely Mar 13 21:58
schestowitz Never given me any problem Mar 13 21:58
schestowitz Not even outside repos (downloads as RPMs) Mar 13 21:58
_Hicham_ maybe urmpi has evolved Mar 13 21:58
_Hicham_ i didnt use it for a while Mar 13 21:58
schestowitz I had spotless experiences with Ubuntu repos too Mar 13 21:59
_Hicham_ in any way, i always think that they must be a universal packages management mechanism Mar 13 21:59
_Hicham_ since package management is basically the same Mar 13 21:59
_Hicham_ an abstraction of deb and rpm format Mar 13 22:00
_Hicham_ that would make things easier to distribute Mar 13 22:00
_Hicham_ package management is all about dependencies Mar 13 22:00
_Hicham_ yum and apt both resolve dependencies Mar 13 22:01
_Hicham_ but apt is praised to be more efficient Mar 13 22:01
_Hicham_ rpm is installed by default in ubuntu Mar 13 22:02
_Hicham_ yum is available in official repo Mar 13 22:02
_Hicham_ so u could use them both to produce binaries Mar 13 22:02
schestowitz Fun article: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/n… (Computer Data Storage Through the Ages — From Punch Cards to Blu-Ray) Mar 13 22:03
schestowitz F* Mar 13 22:07
schestowitz I think my torrent overload the pipe Mar 13 22:07
schestowitz Totally legal Mar 13 22:07
schestowitz But daemonised Mar 13 22:07
schestowitz SourceForge Announces Support for Git, Bazaar and Mercurial… Mar 13 22:09
schestowitz brb dinner Mar 13 22:11
_Hicham_ bring back some food with u Mar 13 22:13
_Hicham_ :D Mar 13 22:14
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Balrog_ don’t know if you learned, but Mar 13 22:20
Balrog_ iPod Touch 2G is jailbroken Mar 13 22:21
MinceR why jailbreak it if you can get a digital music player that’s functional by default? Mar 13 22:22
MinceR with warranty Mar 13 22:22
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Balrog_ which one??? Mar 13 22:22
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Balrog_ btw, jailbreak does NOT void warranty Mar 13 22:22
Balrog_ there is ROM recovery mode Mar 13 22:22
MinceR for example, something from Cowon Mar 13 22:22
Balrog_ not the same quality Mar 13 22:23
Balrog_ the ipod-touch community is large Mar 13 22:23
schestowitz Not what it sounds like: Worm blamed for laptop crash  < http://www.khanya.co.za/blogs/index… > Mar 13 22:24
schestowitz “Mark Taylor’s laptop recently crashed because of a worm . But the worm was of a different type. It was a 12 centimeter long earthworm, which crawled into an air vent of his laptop and coiled itself around a cooling fan. The result? The laptop overheated.” Mar 13 22:24
MinceR what does a community of apple fanboys have to do with quality? Mar 13 22:24
MinceR please make some sense. Mar 13 22:24
Balrog_ not fanboys Mar 13 22:25
Balrog_ the dev community Mar 13 22:25
Balrog_ like Jay Freeman and all those guys Mar 13 22:25
Balrog_ also, which platform can I get more applications (of any kind) for? Mar 13 22:26
Balrog_ iPod Touch wins fast. Mar 13 22:26
schestowitz *LOL* http://linux.slashdot.org/comme… Mar 13 22:26
schestowitz Perens on Novell Mar 13 22:26
Balrog_ more ‘jailbreak’ apps, more ‘official’ apps Mar 13 22:26
schestowitz “OK, cue the violins! Now, all of you at once!AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa   awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! “ Mar 13 22:26
MinceR Balrog_: palmos, windows mobile? :) Mar 13 22:29
Balrog_ MinceR: buggy as **** Mar 13 22:30
Balrog_ both of those Mar 13 22:30
Balrog_ Android is decent Mar 13 22:30
MinceR now please argue that apple software is bugless so i can laugh loudly at you Mar 13 22:30
Balrog_ but then again, no music player has it Mar 13 22:30
MinceR and then so i can feel really sorry for you Mar 13 22:30
Balrog_ No, Apple software has *fewer* bugs than both palmos and windows mobile Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_ it’s like Mar 13 22:31
MinceR also, apparently you don’t mind design flaws at all Mar 13 22:31
MinceR like the one that makes you _jailbreak_ the damn thing to begin with Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_ windows Mobile ——- PalmOS ——————– Apple OS ——– (0-bugs) Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_ definitely not bug-free Mar 13 22:31
schestowitz Perens and Allison on FAT and GPL: http://news.slashdot.org… Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_ but I’ve had experience with palm Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_ no fun :/ Mar 13 22:31
MinceR see people, this is the Reality Distortion Field in action Mar 13 22:31
Balrog_ so does Android make you jailbreak Mar 13 22:31
MinceR android is almost as crap, yes Mar 13 22:32
Balrog_ Of iPhone OS, Palm OS, and Windows Mobile, iPhone OS has the fewest bugs Mar 13 22:32
Balrog_ in my experiences Mar 13 22:32
Balrog_ yes, it still has bugs Mar 13 22:33
Balrog_ sometimes safari quits unexpectedly, among other things Mar 13 22:33
MinceR by the way, if we’re counting locked-down crap like the iphone os, let’s not forget symbian either Mar 13 22:34
schestowitz Black Duck (sounds like Black F*) is once again FUDing FOSS: http://www.informationweek.com/news/… Mar 13 22:34
schestowitz The company was founded by a Microsoft employee Mar 13 22:34
Balrog_ I haven’t used it, but I don’t believe symbian is UNIX-based (POSIX-compliant, optional [though may need to jailbreak] Terminal app, etc) or has as many quality apps Mar 13 22:35
MinceR please remind me, when did we make “unix-based” a criterion here? Mar 13 22:36
Balrog_ can you jailbreak symbian, and do interesting stuff on it? Mar 13 22:36
MinceR how far will you bend over backwards in your futile attempts to make apple crap look like it’s usable? Mar 13 22:37
schestowitz Adobe still doesn’t get it: Adobe: ‘Open’ But Not Always Open Source < http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/ar… > Mar 13 22:37
MinceR yes, symbian can be jailbroken too Mar 13 22:37
MinceR and yes, it’s a pain to do Mar 13 22:37
Balrog_ apple stuff is very usable. I get much more use out of it than any other stuff. Sure, Linux is close behind, but that is how it is Mar 13 22:37
Balrog_ (speaking from experience, not politics) Mar 13 22:38
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MinceR and continuing your reasoning, apple stuff is not very usable because i get less use out of it than any other stuff. Mar 13 22:40
Balrog_ that’s your experience Mar 13 22:40
Balrog_ but I don’t know if you ever tried to *use* it or not Mar 13 22:40
MinceR which is by no means less valuable than yours Mar 13 22:40
MinceR i have tried to use osx and it sucked Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_ for how long? Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_ a day? a week? a month? Mar 13 22:41
MinceR it didn’t live up to a millionth of the hype Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_ what version? Mar 13 22:41
MinceR i didn’t measure it; whatever version someone offered as a vmware vm Mar 13 22:41
MinceR s/vm/image/ Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_ heh, there’s a problem Mar 13 22:41
Balrog_ and how long? Mar 13 22:42
MinceR dunno Mar 13 22:42
MinceR i got tired of the ui pretty quickly Mar 13 22:42
Balrog_ well you’re used to stuff that many people hate Mar 13 22:42
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Balrog_ like mouse focus Mar 13 22:43
Balrog_ as I said, layering windows works fine for me Mar 13 22:43
Balrog_ and there are virtual desktops Mar 13 22:43
MinceR i’m used to stuff that works, thank-you-very-much Mar 13 22:44
Balrog_ ms windows doesn’t have mouse focus Mar 13 22:44
MinceR while apple fanboys haven’t even experimented with settings Mar 13 22:44
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MinceR windows is crap, too Mar 13 22:44
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MinceR even then, windows is more flexible than osx Mar 13 22:44
MinceR and it has a taskbar :> Mar 13 22:44
Balrog_ I hate that taskbar Mar 13 22:45
MinceR i expected that Mar 13 22:45
Balrog_ when I use windows, it gets full so quickly that it becomes useless Mar 13 22:45
MinceR yeah, not like you can resize it… oh, wait Mar 13 22:45
*Balrog_ likes having dozens of windows open at once Mar 13 22:45
*MinceR has them too Mar 13 22:45
Balrog_ yeah, then it takes over an insane amount of space Mar 13 22:45
MinceR yeah, that’s what autohide is for Mar 13 22:45
MinceR or a widescreen monitor Mar 13 22:46
Balrog_ I’ve used that too Mar 13 22:46
Balrog_ but also you can’t easily identify which is which Mar 13 22:46
MinceR i can Mar 13 22:46
MinceR perhaps you can’t :> Mar 13 22:46
Balrog_ well I find the taskbar very inefficient Mar 13 22:46
Balrog_ maybe you don’t Mar 13 22:46
MinceR it’s the best idea m$ stole from arthur/risc os ;) Mar 13 22:47
Balrog_ many say it’s a bad idea Mar 13 22:47
Balrog_ apparently you don’t think so Mar 13 22:47
MinceR apparently Mar 13 22:48
schestowitz taskbar is bad metaphor Mar 13 22:48
schestowitz KDE imitates it Mar 13 22:48
MinceR quick, tell me that i’m the only person in the world who thinks it’s a good idea Mar 13 22:48
schestowitz Task and systray are similar Mar 13 22:48
schestowitz i tried awn for a while Mar 13 22:48
MinceR metaphors are overrated Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz crap too Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz Just toss your apps in the designated desktops and call it a day Mar 13 22:49
MinceR apple fanboys keep claiming how intuitive their favorite crap is Mar 13 22:49
Balrog_ well on os x I don’t use the taskbar for app switching, rather cmd-tab Mar 13 22:49
MinceR it isn’t Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz CTRL+Fx for switching Mar 13 22:49
Balrog_ the taskbar is more useful for opening apps Mar 13 22:49
MinceR no interface is intuitive, everything is learned Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz taskbar is good for group handling Mar 13 22:49
schestowitz Only in KDE though Mar 13 22:49
Balrog_ s/taskbar/dock Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz Like ‘minimise all’ Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz 20 windows sometimes Mar 13 22:50
Balrog_ and os x lets you hide all of an app’s windows Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz MinceR: agreed Mar 13 22:50
Balrog_ or yes, hide all temporarily Mar 13 22:50
MinceR and if you don’t agree, get a windows fanboy to try osx and ask him Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz Speaking of interface, a friend mailed me this some minutes ago: “As his article says, Cinelerra is capable of some really kick-ass effects.  It is really on par almost feature for feature with Final Cut Pro, except for some effects. Mar 13 22:50
schestowitz “It give you highly granular control over your work, but as you can tell from the GUI screenshots on his blog, it is highly complex and requires a good bit of study, and, as his blog implies, some really serious horsepower if you are going to get maximum use of the power of Cinelerra.” Mar 13 22:50
Balrog_ try to get a windows fanboy to try linux as well Mar 13 22:51
MinceR or check how many questions does a _real_ newb ask when learning osx Mar 13 22:51
schestowitz Cinelerra is advanced and complex Mar 13 22:51
MinceR Balrog_: the point is the same: no ui is intuitive Mar 13 22:51
schestowitz “But of course, for the cost of Final Cut Pro, you could actually afford the kind of kick-ass machine he is describing, and then run Cinelerra (soon to become Lumiera) on it. “ Mar 13 22:51
Balrog_ a _real_ newb is someone who hasn’t tried windows or linux OR os x Mar 13 22:51
MinceR Balrog_: exactly Mar 13 22:51
schestowitz He prefers Kino anyway Mar 13 22:51
schestowitz Much simpler Mar 13 22:51
MinceR Balrog_: note my clever use of the word ‘or’ Mar 13 22:51
Balrog_ with os x I get much more done than with windows (and some more than with Linux) Mar 13 22:52
schestowitz “Thanks so much for sending me that link!  I am really excited by the fact that people are starting to see that video editing can be simple under GNU-Linux.  It is so important that we (the FOSS community) are seen as sexy and attractive, because we need to do a much better job of pulling in new users, so that when we are attacked as in the TomTom example, we will have more people on our side to fight along with us. “ Mar 13 22:52
schestowitz “Success is no longer a technological issue, it is now a political issue.  Video editing is something that can make use look cool and sexy. “ Mar 13 22:52
MinceR Balrog_: afaik kde can be configured to use most of the stupid ideas of the osx ui — have you tried that? Mar 13 22:52
schestowitz Munchkins (even Apple users)  throw mud at Linux over video Mar 13 22:52
MinceR well, maybe not the random button order Mar 13 22:52
Balrog_ explain where to configure. I’ve tried kde and it’s rather messy Mar 13 22:52
MinceR i’m not sure if that’s configurable in any gui Mar 13 22:52
Balrog_ Random button order??? Mar 13 22:53
Balrog_ elaborate Mar 13 22:53
schestowitz AV is quite all right at the FOSS level. At proprietary levels it’s fine for HOLLYWOOD studios Mar 13 22:53
schestowitz Mac software for video editing is typically processed by Linux servers too Mar 13 22:53
MinceR where they put OK on the right (where someone who reads left to right looks last) and the other buttons in random order Mar 13 22:53
Balrog_ schestowitz: I’m not sure about that Mar 13 22:53
MinceR (and by OK, i mean default confirm/action button :> ) Mar 13 22:53
Balrog_ but I do know that Linux is used for other stuff, not editing Mar 13 22:54
MinceR (or whatever your favorite “experts” like to call it) Mar 13 22:54
Balrog_ MinceR: I find it not-so-random Mar 13 22:54
MinceR yeah, linux isn’t used for editing. i wonder what cinepaint is for, then Mar 13 22:54
_Hicham_ AV is super great on Linux Mar 13 22:54
Balrog_ what third-party programmers do is their business Mar 13 22:54
MinceR and why do studios keep claiming they use linux for editing Mar 13 22:54
_Hicham_ Avidemux for Example Mar 13 22:55
Balrog_ I meant, it is used, but not as widely Mar 13 22:55
_Hicham_ it processes videos on the fly Mar 13 22:55
MinceR ooh, now we’re in the vague unverifiable statements territory Mar 13 22:55
Balrog_ cinepaint isn’t considered exactly editing by the strict definition Mar 13 22:55
MinceR yeah, it’s just magic Mar 13 22:55
schestowitz trmanco: new wine, new linux -rc Mar 13 22:56
MinceR as for apple’s button ordering not being random — sure, they have a couple of stupid rules, but all they end up doing is that… Mar 13 22:56
schestowitz Balrog: rendering and editing Mar 13 22:56
trmanco schestowitz, yes Mar 13 22:56
MinceR 1) reading left to right (like a normal person using an english gui would) i find the confirm button last Mar 13 22:56
trmanco I forgot to mention that Mar 13 22:57
MinceR 2) i generally want to do the actions i initiate so this wastes my time Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz Balrog: studios moved from UNIX (Solaris sometimes) to Linux Mar 13 22:57
MinceR 3) and as an added bonus, they set off a random button to the left edge so it takes even more time to process) Mar 13 22:57
MinceR s/.$// Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz They don’t need Aqua and stuff to just run their high-end wares Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz RHEL does the job Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz Same in Intel Mar 13 22:57
MinceR all hail the “usability experts” who have managed to waste the user’s time with a few clever rules Mar 13 22:57
schestowitz HCI reminds me of INNOVA~1 Mar 13 22:58
schestowitz In egenral, USABIL~1 is like INNOVA~1 Mar 13 22:58
MinceR on the subject of usability, the menubar on the top is because they didn’t interpret Fitt’s law correctly Mar 13 22:58
schestowitz Man: “why should I buy your product?” Mar 13 22:58
MinceR yeah Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz Woman salesment: “we offer innovation” Mar 13 22:59
MinceR m$ fanboys use the INNOVA~1 curse word Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz “it’s more expensive because ity’s intuitive” Mar 13 22:59
MinceR crApple fanboys use the USABIL~1 curse word Mar 13 22:59
trmanco USABILITY -> USABI#% Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz Ballmer likes the INNOVA~1 junk Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz That guy Larry Cohen was feeding BillG and SweatyB this stuff Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz You see this in the talking points memo he prepared for them Mar 13 22:59
schestowitz it’s all makretingf Mar 13 23:00
MinceR i don’t know who Larry Cohen is Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz I can find that memo Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz very funny Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz Make no mistake Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz It’s deliberate Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz it;s hypnosius Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz brainwash if you like Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz They need to recite it in interview and people believe it Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz Apple harps about “easy” Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz Linux… well, it’s has  a 1337 image Mar 13 23:00
schestowitz Whcih doesn’t appeal from a marketing standpoint Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz MinceR: search BN Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz He quite MS last month Mar 13 23:01
MinceR perhaps apple fanboys buy so heavily into that crap because they’ve spent more on it Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz *quit Mar 13 23:01
MinceR (i mean money) Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02… Mar 13 23:01
schestowitz It’s one of the marketing clowns Mar 13 23:02
MinceR apple crap is expensive so they’ve got to justify the expenditure somehow Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz His role is to manage how MS comminuicted with the world that it robs Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz “Talking points” memo here: Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0…/ Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz Oops. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01… Mar 13 23:02
schestowitz Hilarious Mar 13 23:02
MinceR Larry Cohen stayed with his beloved Pearly though Mar 13 23:02
MinceR (btw, another nifty thing i’d like to see major GUIs ‘steal’ from arthur/risc os is that the main menu is on right click) Mar 13 23:04
Balrog_ main menu? Mar 13 23:04
MinceR what’s the menu bar in most guis Mar 13 23:05
schestowitz Report: Microsoft U.S. Search Share Hits 12-month Low < http://www.pcworld.com/article/161222/… > Mar 13 23:07
schestowitz MinceR: of course Mar 13 23:07
schestowitz THigher up the pyramid Mar 13 23:07
schestowitz *Higher Mar 13 23:07
schestowitz @trmanco : it’s news when Gmail goes down (not normal for Wintel press), not when Hotmail goes down as it just did. Mar 13 23:09
MinceR wow, Panda Security has released a fix to a security hole that’s been in all windows versions since 95 >> http://www.pandasecurity.com/homeu… Mar 13 23:09
schestowitz START me up!! Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh :-) Mar 13 23:10
MinceR :) Mar 13 23:10
MinceR Start/Shutdown… Mar 13 23:10
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbCmnRztK1Y Mar 13 23:11
schestowitz Shut this man down :-) Mar 13 23:11
MinceR lock him up Mar 13 23:11
MinceR make him do work for once in his life Mar 13 23:12
Balrog_ come on Mar 13 23:12
Balrog_ you can disable that with tweakui Mar 13 23:13
schestowitz “COmon!!!” Mar 13 23:13
schestowitz Give it up.. Mar 13 23:13
MinceR yes, and i can disble the rest of the security holes with dd or fsck Mar 13 23:13
MinceR or a kubuntu install disk Mar 13 23:13
MinceR s/sb/sab/ Mar 13 23:13
Balrog_ I’m stuck with people who require windows Mar 13 23:14
MinceR doesn’t change the fact that it’s on by default and hard to disable Mar 13 23:14
MinceR it’s just like the iPoo DontTouch/jesusPhone thing Mar 13 23:14
Balrog_ ??? Mar 13 23:14
MinceR sure it can be hammered into something not entirely useless Mar 13 23:14
MinceR but why bother if you can get superior products? Mar 13 23:14
Balrog_ no, windows can’t Mar 13 23:14
Balrog_ I’ve tried in the past, but it’s useless Mar 13 23:15
trmanco schestowitz, what can we do… Mar 13 23:17
trmanco oh, that was a tweet Mar 13 23:18
trmanco just saw it Mar 13 23:18
schestowitz I’ll post it to COLA Mar 13 23:18
schestowitz The Munckins will ignore Mar 13 23:18
schestowitz http://www.linuxdevices.com/ne… “According to Via, the VX855 supports Linux, Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP..” WAIT wait wait… there IS. No. Windows. 7. Mar 13 23:20
trmanco Ubuntu! Cool! Playtime!!!: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.fr… Mar 13 23:23
trmanco :) Mar 13 23:23
schestowitz yuck: http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux… Mar 13 23:26
schestowitz mono devs there (packagers) Mar 13 23:26
schestowitz Check out the mouseover effect they do here with CSS: http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/soa/X… Mar 13 23:32
schestowitz I’ve looked at page sort, it looks quite elegant. Mar 13 23:32
_Hicham_ moonlight is available in Ubuntu Mar 13 23:33
schestowitz Is Ubuntu Taking Over? Should I Follow? < http://jjmacey.net/blog/?p=236 > Mar 13 23:33
_Hicham_ http://packages.ubuntu.com/jau… Mar 13 23:33
_Hicham_ Roy : I think that Ubuntu will even help install moonlight as it does for flash Mar 13 23:34
_Hicham_ what do u think? Mar 13 23:36
_Hicham_ Ubuntu is better than windows anyway Mar 13 23:39
trmanco schestowitz, http://identi.ca/notice/2776615 Mar 13 23:39
trmanco you can now post notices by email Mar 13 23:39
trmanco schestowitz, have a look at my tags now :-P Mar 13 23:40
schestowitz I know Mar 13 23:41
schestowitz They did maintenance Mar 13 23:42
schestowitz Afterwards I started getting mail alerts Mar 13 23:42
trmanco deativate them Mar 13 23:42
schestowitz _Hicham_: Microsoft uses Novell to poison Linux Mar 13 23:42
schestowitz Canonical takes the bait IMHO Mar 13 23:42
trmanco deactivate “Send me email when someone sends me an “@-reply”.” Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz Just left a comment in: http://blogs.computerworld.com/pc_ven… Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz It annoyed me that he didn’t just tell his readers what was REALLY happening Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz Lenovo take Microsoft money to shaft Linux Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz That’s what’s happening Mar 13 23:43
schestowitz And we have leaked proof of this Mar 13 23:44
schestowitz trmanco: no, I’m fine with alerts, they get filtered into a separate mail account and directory Mar 13 23:44
trmanco ah ok Mar 13 23:44
balzac 23:50 <@schestowitz> Canonical takes the bait IMHO Mar 13 23:45
balzac Redhat too, wouldn’t you say? Mar 13 23:45
balzac It’s as if they’re both either ignorant, or afraid MS silverlie is going to catch on as a format, and they don’t want to be incompatible with the “next flash” Mar 13 23:46
schestowitz I have good /. karma Mar 13 23:49
schestowitz I start at almost 5, I think. Mar 13 23:49
schestowitz balzac: not quite Mar 13 23:49
schestowitz I hear from Red Hat people Mar 13 23:49
schestowitz [H]omer_ has ‘em scouring his site Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz They still study with concern Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz Same with RMS AFAIK Mar 13 23:50
_Hicham_ Roy : what would happen if Microsoft go bankrupt? Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz They probably just don’t want to: 1) alientate Novell Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz 2) leave spoiled users stranded Mar 13 23:50
schestowitz Some people won’t understand “there’s a patent issue” or “it’s not good to adopt .NET” Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz They just “want things to work” Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz Linus Torvalds mentality Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz _Hicham_: big feast Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz But they’d get govt protection first Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz It’s a corrupt government there Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz They also gave SGI a lieline Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz Formerly Silicon Graphics Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz And Microsoft is trying to pry people’s medical data off them Mar 13 23:51
schestowitz For this reason Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz No Microsoft=medical mess Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz They create entanglements in he system Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz BTW, just got this nice mail: Mar 13 23:52
_Hicham_ Microsoft killed OpenGL on windows with their implementation Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz Re: http://slashdot.org/comment… Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz “I do like Novell, because they give lots of drivers to the FOSS community, stuff that no other company likes to do, but as Roy has ably pointed out, they made some unnecessary mistakes in this deal with Microsoft.  I think that as time goes by, more and more people will see the wisdom of many of Roy’s criticisms of Novell, particularly as a result of this deal.” Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz “We must hold up the mirror to our own community and see the mistakes that we have made, and Roy’s efforts in this regard are a great service to the community.  And I do notice that there are less and less of the comments these days denigrating Roy’s work and more and more people are taking him seriously. “ Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz “I think that this story shifts just that much more weight over to Roy’s side regarding the questionable wisdom of the Novell – Microsoft deal. “ Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz This was actually sent to a group Mar 13 23:52
schestowitz _Hicham_: yes, that was seen before the baby bastard called Vista got emitted from mothership’s belly Mar 13 23:53
schestowitz Something about implementation as abstraction under DX10 Mar 13 23:53
schestowitz Like virtualisation in a way… or emulation… to use analogies. Mar 13 23:54
schestowitz This discourages game developers who might *GASP* choose OpenGL, which works in other platforms Mar 13 23:54
schestowitz Look at DirectX material in BN Mar 13 23:54
schestowitz Microsoft deliberately deviated Mar 13 23:54
schestowitz Because they are anti-competitive shameless monsters Mar 13 23:55
schestowitz OpenGL works on other platfforms? Mar 13 23:55
schestowitz “That’s good for the consumer but bad for us. Let’s sabotage that…” Mar 13 23:55
_Hicham_ even though DX9 was eating the market Mar 13 23:56
schestowitz _Hicham_: start here: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:… Mar 13 23:56
schestowitz I gave many references Mar 13 23:56
schestowitz It’s more difficult to refute when I don’t throw statements out in the air. Mar 13 23:56
schestowitz Footnotes, refs, corss-citations for context, etc. Mar 13 23:57
schestowitz BN turned into quite a project with tens of thousands of external links and hundreds of courts exhibits Mar 13 23:57
schestowitz *Court Mar 13 23:57
schestowitz Watch the National Debt from the Command Line < http://www.linuxjournal.com/vid… > Blob required. Mar 13 23:59
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