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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 12th, 2008


Enter the IRC channel now

trmancoI got it from one of your posts on usenet and it wasn't on this channel that I was thinking on posting the linkSep 11 22:43
PetoKraus:)Sep 11 22:47
schestowitzIt's an important one nonetheless because it's about Microsoft disregard for standards. There's lot of this in the Novell deal (interop versus real standards)Sep 11 22:47
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schestowitz "I'm sure the LSE was a big part of Microsoft's Get the Facts campaign, and a poster for how reliable their software is. Mind you, it's not just Microsoft software but the culture that grows around it. I've seen some almighty messes made by Accenture, and given how much money that outage cost I'm not surprised no one is commenting."Sep 12 07:15
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schestowitz "George Weiss, the vice president of Stamford, Conn.-based Gartner Inc., said that there is probably "a whole lot more Linux [in use] than people realize" because so much is downloaded for free that is not counted in server shipments."Sep 12 07:54
MinceRwhoa, gartner has discovered 'installed base'Sep 12 07:55
schestowitzNo.Sep 12 07:55
schestowitzIt denies it pretty much. And IDC/IDG meanwhile takes money from Microsoft to study 'Linux use' (preinstalls from large vendors) announcing that Linux has just 13% of the pieSep 12 07:56
schestowitzWeeks ago: "There's a lot of Linux out there -- much more than Microsoft generally signals publicly -- and their customers are using it..." --Paul DeGroot, a Directions On Microsoft analyst.Sep 12 07:57
schestowitzAnother recent favourite from the Partner Group (Microsoft's 'partner'): Sep 12 07:58
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schestowitzFWIW, I've just put that in Digg: 12 08:04
schestowitzOops. Typo in that second one.Sep 12 08:04
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schestowitzThe Microsoft-O-Gara shill is repeating some old speculation from Sam Dean: (note: VMware is headed by Microsofters now)Sep 12 08:18
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ZiggyFishschestowitz: hey I like the video at the end of 'Links 11/09/2008: Many New Releases, KDE in CERN'Sep 12 10:09
schestowitzNo Ogg though.Sep 12 10:09
schestowitzMaybe I should get back to producing Oggs.Sep 12 10:10
ZiggyFishyeahSep 12 10:10
schestowitzIt fills up the server.Sep 12 10:10
ZiggyFishdidn't know linux could do thatSep 12 10:10
schestowitzThat's an old videoSep 12 10:10
schestowitzYears ago. Maybe 3 or 4.Sep 12 10:10
ZiggyFishanyway shows you the power of Linux.Sep 12 10:11
schestowitzIt came from an argument I had in USENETSep 12 10:11
ZiggyFishlolSep 12 10:11
schestowitz (many trolls here, so be warned)Sep 12 10:11
ZiggyFishlolSep 12 10:13
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ZiggyFish (are these guys computers?)Sep 12 10:14
ZiggyFishthey sound like robotsSep 12 10:15
schestowitz*LOL*Sep 12 10:16
schestowitzMaybe their mother's tongue is RoboticsSep 12 10:16
ZiggyFishlolSep 12 10:16
ZiggyFishdon't you get that impression?Sep 12 10:16
schestowitzOne sounds more like a robotSep 12 10:17
ZiggyFishwhy can't they speak like the guys on Linux Action ShowSep 12 10:18
schestowitzIt's a Linux void (of soul). No action./Sep 12 10:22
ZiggyFishhehSep 12 10:22
schestowitzMaybe Dorothy will sort them out when they find the Wizard of Oz.Sep 12 10:23
ZiggyFishlolSep 12 10:23
schestowitzAnyway, enough laughing at them. They might notice.Sep 12 10:23
ZiggyFishdidn't no robots were that smart yetSep 12 10:23
ZiggyFish;)Sep 12 10:23
schestowitzThey're overclockedSep 12 10:24
ZiggyFishheheheSep 12 10:24
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schestowitzHow  true: "t should be Linux only. That's how it was all started prior to MS sticking their thumb into the media circle. However, once MS dropped it's five ton gorilla onto the plate the initiative has all but died. it's the MS "extend, embrace, extinguish" plan in full action." 12 10:32
ZiggyFishvery trueSep 12 10:33
schestowitzI just never though of it like this, but anyone whom I know that advocated OLPC got sick of it when Microsoft rubbed it in the media. They also drove away key OLPC people that way.Sep 12 10:36
schestowitzMicrosoft fumigates anything it enters. ODF... Apache..? Hopefully never.Sep 12 10:36
ZiggyFishbut what have Microsoft to gain in taking down OLPC.Sep 12 10:37
schestowitzA lot. It's the Slog: 12 10:37
schestowitzZiggyFish: Microsoft fears low-cost laptops; same with Intel. Price-fixing has been their thing for ages.Sep 12 10:37
ZiggyFishtrueSep 12 10:38
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schestowitzI rely now on the Chinese to make those better chips and not to be corrupted by the Ballmer/Gates axis that has a lot of influence on their totalitarian regime.Sep 12 10:38
schestowitz$98 laptops. What will Wintel do?Sep 12 10:38
ZiggyFishlolSep 12 10:39
schestowitzThey've struggled against computers becoming a commodity or a generic 'drug' like Aspirin.Sep 12 10:39
schestowitzThey want the kids on MSD, not AspirinSep 12 10:39
schestowitz*LSDSep 12 10:39
schestowitz“Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, but people don’t pay for the software,” he said. “Someday they will, though. As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.”Sep 12 10:40
schestowitz--Bill Gates on how to get people addicted to expensive stuffSep 12 10:40
mib_s8rnj5I have an interesting email sent from Jack Messman to Novell partners complaining and attempting to correct microsoft fud. 12 10:41
*schestowitz looksSep 12 10:41
schestowitzI can recall a comment in Groklaw about Messman using FUD in 2005Sep 12 10:41
schestowitzI see it here: 12 10:43
schestowitzThat's very interesting, thank you very much!Sep 12 10:43
ZiggyFishyeahSep 12 10:43
mib_s8rnj5Welcome.  I am sure I have a few more as I worked for a novell partner for 10 yearsSep 12 10:44
schestowitzEspecially after Novell had torn down all its anti-FUD pages from (just after the deal was signed)Sep 12 10:44
mib_s8rnj5Ill post if I find themSep 12 10:44
schestowitzNovell is now *USING* Microsoft's FUD to its advantage against other vendors.Sep 12 10:44
ZiggyFishsureSep 12 10:44
ZiggyFishlolSep 12 10:44
schestowitzExcellent! Thanks for that.Sep 12 10:45
schestowitzLet me try to see if I can find the Messman FUD remarkSep 12 10:45
schestowitzGot it! 12 10:46
mib_s8rnj5Messamn was the most boring man ever.Sep 12 10:46
schestowitzI have some interviews of  hisSep 12 10:48
schestowitz 12 10:48
ZiggyFishOh, Bill, usually wins that title (the most poring man ever), you've just upset him, watchout he'll try to 'extend, embrace, extinguish' you ;)Sep 12 10:49
ZiggyFish*boringSep 12 10:49
schestowitzThere\s the thing about VMLSep 12 10:49
schestowitz 12 10:49
schestowitzWith OOXML they try to make it s 'standard'.Sep 12 10:49
schestowitzVery annoying.Sep 12 10:49
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MinceR124457 <@schestowitz> I see it here: 12 10:54
MinceRthe domain's dead :/Sep 12 10:54
schestowitzhttp:// 12 10:57
schestowitznux+in+their+latest+SEC+filing.+ These,+however,+are+the+true+facts.& ;hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1Sep 12 10:57
schestowitz 12 10:57
ZiggyFishI recon that the Major vendors have an agreement with Microsoft (any computers they sell, Microsoft get's a percentage of, in exchange for lowered Windows licences cost (can't find any references to back it up though))Sep 12 10:58
schestowitzThere was lots in the Iowa trial, e.g. 12 10:59
schestowitzIntel has some similar illegal deas.Sep 12 10:59
schestowitzDell's investors sued for accepting secret bribes (kickbacks) from Intel. Lenovo is said to have played the same game. It's all corruptSep 12 10:59
ZiggyFishreading confirms itSep 12 11:00
schestowitzThe Acer one is a better example.Sep 12 11:00
schestowitz 12 11:00
ZiggyFishyeahSep 12 11:02
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schestowitzOne site vainly claims to know precisely Microsoft's hare on desktop: "And others talk of switching allegiance completely, though in reality Microsoft Windows still holds a massive 94.9% share in desktop OS use." ORLY?  http://searchcio-midmarket.tec... Look who is cited as the 'source'? The media propagates the Big Lies.Sep 12 12:46
schestowitzThe Microsoft O'Gara shill (see ) is doing a series of attacks on VMWare: 12 12:51
schestowitzWTF? She's still going ballistic. Classic Microsoft slog:  It's just like in 12 12:53
schestowitz"Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in, "he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2." Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition's technology part of the mythology of the computer industry. We want to place selection pressure on those companies and individuals that show a genetic weakness for comSep 12 12:53
schestowitzpetitors' technologies, to make the industry increasingly resistant to such unhealthy strains, over time."Sep 12 12:53
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schestowitzAnd the O'Gara VMWare FUD then continued: 12 13:01
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trmanco 12 13:27
schestowitzIt's being hyped up in the media like it's the second coming, as opposed to a blog post. There are already thousands of contributors.Sep 12 13:28
schestowitzWhat's with this picture? 12 13:54
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PetoKrausso is chrome opensource?Sep 12 15:23
schestowitzYes.Sep 12 15:24
PetoKrauswhere's the code?Sep 12 15:24
schestowitz 12 15:24
schestowitzThe Apple and GNU/Linux versions are very much behind, so while Wine can now run it decently, don't expect native versions any time soon.Sep 12 15:25
PetoKrausi saySep 12 15:27
PetoKrausfuck googleSep 12 15:27
PetoKrausalsoSep 12 15:27
schestowitzCheck out the comments here (mind also): 12 15:29
PetoKrausis chromium REALLY the same thing as chrome?Sep 12 15:29
schestowitzIt pissed me off a lot more because they actually /ruined/ the Web.Sep 12 15:30
schestowitzAlso see: 12 15:30
PetoKrausruined?Sep 12 15:30
schestowitzWell, you come and visir a Google page and they tell you "go away, GNU/Linux users. Go and buy Windows, then come back."Sep 12 15:31
PetoKrausgoshSep 12 15:32
PetoKrauscrappy.Sep 12 15:32
PetoKrausi don't trust cloud computer for one thingSep 12 15:33
PetoKrausthe board of any company, eg google, can be changedSep 12 15:33
PetoKrausand the new board forces the devs to switch one boolean variableSep 12 15:33
PetoKrausand boom, cloud works only under certain os.Sep 12 15:33
schestowitzYes, I know.Sep 12 15:34
schestowitzI'll write some more about insiders later. Microsoft is spreading its goons all over the placeSep 12 15:34
schestowitz(Google included, told me one professor)Sep 12 15:34
schestowitzDo you know of high-level people in Google who arrives from Microsoft?Sep 12 15:34
schestowitz*arrivedSep 12 15:34
PetoKrausno, not really, but i guess i can imagineSep 12 15:34
schestowitzHmmmmm.... ... I wonder how wtitter is doing under their storm in the east.Sep 12 15:36
schestowitz...Petty to complain about some rainy weather unless it floods. There are worse climatic issues out there.Sep 12 15:38
schestowitzGood news if true: "But the spec also mentions 1GB of RAM, a 40GB hard drive, "Ubunto Linux" (sic), dimensions extending to 30 x 30 x 17cm and a weight of 1.2kg, all of which are rather large for an MID."Sep 12 15:42
MinceRit's dell, therefore it includes the hidden microsoft tax, doesn't it?Sep 12 15:46
schestowitzYes.Sep 12 15:46
schestowitzThe problem is that many of these vendors are not being 'infected'. To tell you the truth, I am very pissed off about Novell at the moment (usually I'm more clam). Microsoft is slogging some companies (this time VMware, not just Red Hat) and Novell is /helping/ it. It's like an abusive dunce.Sep 12 15:47
schestowitznot->nowSep 12 15:47
schestowitzclam->calm.    Microsoft is still losing but to whom? To Novell? No, it 'bribed' Novell to keep it alive (kind of like SCO) in order to have its competition change sides (remember the Caldera trial that was settled secretly?) Sep 12 15:49
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schestowitzFrom " might soon have a market value!" OH NO. Don't ruin Mandriva, Radu.Sep 12 15:53
schestowitzMandriva is based in Europe (and South America). They ought to complain about Microsoft... and not just in an open letter over the bribery, e.g. in Nigeria. It's down to bureaucracy, but they are all being surrounded by undercover shills like Zuck and his pressure-group-for-Microsoft-du-jour, which impacts corruptible politicians.Sep 12 15:59
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tessier_schestowitz: What do you think of Nexenta? Open-solaris based distro with GNU userland.Sep 12 18:03
schestowitzI've not tried OpenSolaris before. CDDL...Sep 12 18:05
tessier_You haven't tried it because it is CDDL?Sep 12 18:07
MinceRslowlaris.Sep 12 18:08
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schestowitztessier: it seems like something useful if you need Sun-only features like ZFS. I don't know how much software it runs well (don't know != runs badly).Sep 12 18:12
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_Doug????????????????????????????????????????????Sep 12 18:29
schestowitzHey, Dug.Sep 12 18:30
schestowitz*DougSep 12 18:30
_Dougsee the latest Gates/Seinfeld advert ?Sep 12 18:30
_Doug 12 18:31
schestowitzDo you know who showed PJ the "O'Gara sabotages OSDL E-mail"?Sep 12 18:31
_Doug?Sep 12 18:31
schestowitzI don't care for Microsoft adverts. It's free advertising to mention them.Sep 12 18:31
_DougPM ..Sep 12 18:31
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_DougWhat's extraordenary is they have a strategy in place to attack the OSDL, before its even set up, talk about knifing the fetus :OSep 12 18:48
_DougThen attack OSDL ffor what it is doing and put a negative spin on it .. ehSep 12 18:49
_Doug"Linux and Open Source are supposed to be all about "free" technology and no one group having competitive advantage. This new alliance seems to go against these principles."Sep 12 18:49
schestowitzThat's the routine.Sep 12 18:49
schestowitzI'm going to write about it.Sep 12 18:50
schestowitzMOG is attacking VMware now.Sep 12 18:50
_DougSo it's either fragmentation or it's against the principles of Open Source ,can't win .. :)Sep 12 18:50
_DougGot a link to MOG ?Sep 12 18:50
_Doug"Old UNIX guard attempting to hijack Linux to go after Sun"Sep 12 18:51
schestowitzAh, that's a classicSep 12 18:53
schestowitzMOG has begun promoting Novell and slamming Red Hat... wonder why...Sep 12 18:53
schestowitzAnd her 'publication' claims that Microsoft might buy Novell.Sep 12 18:53
schestowitzMust be something they  send her from Redmond.Sep 12 18:54
_Doug:)Sep 12 18:55
_DougMS don't want to buy Novell, at least not just yet. They are more usefull as being an independent 'open source' company.Sep 12 18:56
_DougThe most obvious impact of the coveneant was to kill any Novell ambitions on the desktop ..Sep 12 18:56
_DougAll for the exchange of some vouchers and loose change out of Redmond ..Sep 12 18:57
MinceRtheir loss, i don't miss suse on the desktop. :>Sep 12 19:01
schestowitzI'm typing it right now. :-)Sep 12 19:02
_DougMS don't want to buy Novell as they also risk getting call a monopoly, again. It's best to keep at least the one 'opne source' company on life support. If I was an OEM or a media company, I would snap up Novell right now ..Sep 12 19:07
_DougNovDell should sell a high end multimedia device and make their money back on subscriptions, movies, games etc .. it's a license to print money ...Sep 12 19:09
_DougA €£60 cheep box made in China, would fly off the shelves ..Sep 12 19:09
MinceRi think they'll just kill novell once they don't find it useful any more.Sep 12 19:13
MinceR(that seems to be close to what happened to sco...)Sep 12 19:14
_DougSCO is like a vampire, keeps rising from the dead ..Sep 12 19:15
_DougCanonical to improve usability of the Linux desktop ..Sep 12 19:21
_Doug 12 19:21
_Dougot: virtual racism ..Sep 12 19:24
_Doug 12 19:24
_Douggtg .. bye ...Sep 12 19:24
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cjschestowitz: I thought you might want to read this:Sep 12 20:28
cj 12 20:28
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MinceR 12 21:17
schestowitzOh noes! 12 22:18
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cjschestowitz: that Canonical link looks like something my wife would be able to help with!Sep 12 22:56
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cjschestowitz: lol @ webcamsSep 12 23:17
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IBM Slavery: Not a New Problem
When IBM got rid of Ben Cotton it showed the world how much it valued Fedora
Why They Want to Abolish Master/Slave Terminology (Because This is What They're Turned Free Software Into)
It used to be about community; GAFAM turned that into exploitation and worse
Roy and Rianne's Righteously Royalty-free RSS Reader (R.R.R.R.R.R.) Version 0.2 is Released
They say summer "officially" started some days ago
Torvalds' Number Two Quit Linux a Decade Ago and Has Since Then Earned an Honorary Doctorate
Revisiting Fuzix and Alan Cox
GNU/Linux Reaches All-Time High in Tunisia
Based on statCounter
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, June 23, 2024
IRC logs for Sunday, June 23, 2024
Edward Brocklesby (ejb) & Debian: Hacking expulsion cover-up in proximity to Oxford and GCHQ
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
You Know the Microsoft Products Really Suck When...
"Qualcomm and Microsoft go 'beyond the call of duty' to stop independent Copilot+ PC reviews"
IBM and "Regime Change"
Change of regime is not the same as freedom
Microsoft Windows in Nicaragua: From 98% to Less Than 25%
Operating System Market Share Nicaragua
Techrights in the Coming Decade: The Community Angle
Somebody needs to call them out on their BS
Techrights in the Coming Decade: The Software Angle
Gemini Protocol has just turned 5 - i.e. roughly the same age as our Git repositories
Techrights in the Coming Decade: The Patent Angle
Next month marks 10 years since we began covering EPO leaks
Wookey, Intrigeri, Cryptie & Debian pseudonyms beyond Edward Brocklesby
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
[Meme] Choice Versus Freedom
So When Do I Start Having Freedom? Freedom is choice between the GAFAMs
Digital Liberation of Society at Times of Armed Conflicts and Uncertainty
We have technical contributions, not just written output
Links 23/06/2024: More Microsoft Cancellations, Growing Repression Worldwide
Links for the day
Gemini Links 23/06/2024: The Magician and the Hacker, tmux Tips
Links for the day
Links 23/06/2024: Twitter/X Wants Your Money, Google Reports a Billion DMCA Takedowns in Four Months
Links for the day
Digital Restrictions (Like DRM) Don't Have Brands, We Need to Teach People to Hate the Underlying Restrictions, Not Companies That Typically Come and Go
Conceptually, the hens should fear humans, not the farmer who cages them
Going Above 4% Again
Maybe 4% (or above) by month's end?
[Meme] Debian's 'Cannon Fodder' Economics
Conflicts of interest don't matter
Conviction, jail for Hinduja family, Debian exploitation comparison
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
According to Microsoft, It's Not a Code of Conduct Violation to Troll Your Victims Whose Files You Are Purging
The group of vandals from Microsoft think it's "funny" (and for a "nominal fee") to troll Microsoft critics
Microsoft Inside Debian is Sabotaging Debian and Its Many Hundreds of Derivatives With SystemD (Microsoft/GitHub Slopware With Catastrophic Bugs is Hardly a New Problem)
What is the moral of the story about The Scorpion and the Frog?
Links 23/06/2024: Hey Hi (AI) Scrapers Gone Very Rogue, Software Patents Squashed at EPO
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, June 22, 2024
IRC logs for Saturday, June 22, 2024
Gemini Links 23/06/2024: LoRaWAN and Gemini Plugin for KOReade
Links for the day