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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 9th, 2008 - Part 2



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PetoKrauswell, if i was using pen and paper, i'd be able to.Dec 09 14:14
PetoKrauswith sage - no!Dec 09 14:14
PetoKrausit locks the order fields while customer details are emptyDec 09 14:14
PetoKrausWHY?!?Dec 09 14:14
PetoKrausit's especially excruciating with polish and arabic peopleDec 09 14:14
EruaranhahaDec 09 14:15
EruaranaaahahahahaDec 09 14:15
PetoKraustheir slashed l's and t's; and 50+ long character namesDec 09 14:15
twitteruh oh, M$ is trying to keep it's vendor lock as the old stores fail.Dec 09 14:15
*Eruaran ROFL'sDec 09 14:15
PetoKrausgood thing is - no per user printer settingsDec 09 14:15
EruaranPetoKraus: http://www.tbssoftware.com....Dec 09 14:15
PetoKraustechnical user has the same default printer as sales userDec 09 14:15
PetoKrausmeaning.... well, i guess it's okay in small shop, where i can just walk trough the shop and get the papers from sales printer if i forget to set it manuallyDec 09 14:16
twittergood of Bishop to notice.Dec 09 14:16
PetoKrausnow, if sales printer was on different site, then i'd be screwed!Dec 09 14:16
EruaranhahaDec 09 14:16
PetoKrausobviously, once you close invoice window, you can't reprint it...Dec 09 14:16
EruaranWhat we have hereDec 09 14:16
EruaranIs a Sage userDec 09 14:16
EruaranNotice the furrowed browDec 09 14:17
EruaranAnd the signs of early ageingDec 09 14:17
Eruaran"make the bad man stop"Dec 09 14:18
EruaranSage users can often be found muttering unintelligable babble to themselvesDec 09 14:19
EruaranLearning curve for TBS software: 1 hourDec 09 14:19
EruaranLearning curve for Sage: 1 yearDec 09 14:19
PetoKrausthe great deploying decision of my boss "who knows better" was to get M$ Server 2008. With 2 remote connections allowed only. Uh oh. makes a bit of a problem when we've got 4 computers we need to run our DB frontend on... (obviously, there is a way how to do it on client - server basis in sage, i hope)Dec 09 14:19
PetoKrausEruaran: it's not learning curveDec 09 14:20
Eruaran(and thats no exaggeration you know)Dec 09 14:20
PetoKrausit's "finding new amusing ways how to make the process of invoicing stuff longer"Dec 09 14:20
EruaranlolDec 09 14:20
EruaranyesDec 09 14:20
EruaranIt is truly British.Dec 09 14:20
PetoKrausSince sage sucks so much, we are using double database system for tech repairsDec 09 14:20
schestowitztwitter: Bishop is usually OK. He's not strongly pro-MSDec 09 14:20
schestowitzPJ likes him tooDec 09 14:20
PetoKrausFilemaker PRO (godness!!!) for the tech reportsDec 09 14:21
PetoKrausand Sage for actual invoicesDec 09 14:21
EruaranPetoKraus: we suck everything into Access for reportsDec 09 14:21
PetoKrausyou know, when you think filemaker pro was better than this shitDec 09 14:21
EruaranSage is just too slowDec 09 14:21
PetoKrausthen it's real shitDec 09 14:21
EruaranPetoKraus: you know what database Sage uses right ?Dec 09 14:21
PetoKrauswhat?Dec 09 14:22
EruaranParadoxDec 09 14:22
PetoKrausit does use database?Dec 09 14:22
PetoKrausi thought it's textfilesDec 09 14:22
EruaranhahaDec 09 14:22
PetoKrausor a huge linked list with nice OOP overheadDec 09 14:22
PetoKrausobviously, one way linked listDec 09 14:22
EruaranI'm fairly sure its using Paradox for its back end... and they've never updated itDec 09 14:22
EruaranIts way too complicatedDec 09 14:23
PetoKraus  you are kiddingDec 09 14:23
PetoKrausit runs on DOS!Dec 09 14:23
EruaranserioiusDec 09 14:23
PetoKrausoh godDec 09 14:23
PetoKrausno fkn wonderDec 09 14:23
Eruaran:)Dec 09 14:23
Eruarannow it all becomes clear eh ?Dec 09 14:23
PetoKrausi mean, i HATE mysql myselfDec 09 14:23
PetoKrausi just can't be bothered with it even on my small pageDec 09 14:23
twitterHere's a funny one, " if we stop, if we're no longer more functional, if we're no longer a time saver, if we're no longer compatible, then that other stuff will gain traction." - Steve Balmer 3/26/06 http://www.forbes.com/home/enterprisetech/2006/...Dec 09 14:24
PetoKrausbut this is even worseDec 09 14:24
twitterVista, full stop.Dec 09 14:24
EruaranPetoKraus: Sage is a massively crappy front end for an ancient database that relies on pre-TCP/IP networking to actually work as some mildly tolerable speedDec 09 14:24
PetoKrausyeah wellDec 09 14:25
PetoKrausyou know, if only they get the UI rightDec 09 14:25
PetoKrausthen screw the backend, i can waitDec 09 14:25
EruaranMost accounting software is horribleDec 09 14:26
EruaranIf MYOB and Quicken are demons... Sage is SatanDec 09 14:27
Eruaran*daemonsDec 09 14:27
PetoKrausyeah wellDec 09 14:28
PetoKrausthis makes computing science bad nameDec 09 14:28
PetoKrausluckily, sage is not OSS, that would be pretty awkward ;)Dec 09 14:28
EruaranSo much proprietary software is truly so bad its just a massive scamDec 09 14:29
EruaranIf Sage was FOSS it would have been abandoned and left unmaintained back in the 90'sDec 09 14:29
EruaranOr rewritten from scratchDec 09 14:30
Eruaranno... it would have been buriedDec 09 14:30
EruaranIt would be too much of an embarrassmentDec 09 14:30
EruaranThere's this software that one of our clients uses, lawperfect I think it is... it really is little more than some Word templatesDec 09 14:31
EruaranThey pay thousands for itDec 09 14:31
Eruaranmacros and thingsDec 09 14:32
EruaranAdds functionality that Word doesn't haveDec 09 14:32
schestowitztwitter: yuck, Daniel Lyons.Dec 09 14:32
schestowitzGot anything not propagated by a talking point? ;-)Dec 09 14:33
EruaranFunctionality which, incidentally WordPerfect has.Dec 09 14:33
EruaranThey wont switch... and I bet you can guess whyDec 09 14:33
EruaranFormatsDec 09 14:34
EruaranIts too much hassleDec 09 14:34
schestowitzLockinDec 09 14:34
EruaranyesDec 09 14:34
schestowitzA format is the product from McirosoftDec 09 14:34
schestowitzAnd some program 'around' itDec 09 14:34
schestowitzOOXMLDec 09 14:34
schestowitzOOXML 2007Dec 09 14:34
twitterYes, when you look back at Patent FUD, Lyons is the man pushing it.Dec 09 14:34
schestowitzOOXML 14 is comingDec 09 14:34
schestowitz.Dec 09 14:34
schestowitzThere will soon be a product called Live OOXML from Microsoft.Dec 09 14:34
Eruaranthey're not even going to use Office 2007Dec 09 14:34
schestowitzStudents get cheap OOXML drugsDec 09 14:35
schestowitzThey then bring their OOXML skills to work, which can't use office suites.Dec 09 14:35
schestowitzInstead of productivity software they use this thing called OOXMLDec 09 14:35
EruaranIt gets me to thinking... if the functionality they need can be found in OpenOffice, and support for .doc is good... well...Dec 09 14:35
schestowitzEruaran: what is Office?Dec 09 14:35
schestowitzThe software is just some MS-OOXML thing...Dec 09 14:36
schestowitzA bigger variant of some crime called OOXMLDec 09 14:36
EruaranwellDec 09 14:36
Eruaranyou know what I emanDec 09 14:36
schestowitzOOXML means bribery, blackmail, sabotage, lies, and vote-rigging.Dec 09 14:36
Eruaran*meanDec 09 14:36
EruaranyesDec 09 14:36
schestowitzYou know..Dec 09 14:37
EruaranIt backfires thoughDec 09 14:37
schestowitzIf MOOX wasn't American..Dec 09 14:37
schestowitzThen I bet Bush & Vabinet would declare some kind of war it... to 'liberate' it.Dec 09 14:37
schestowitz*CabinetDec 09 14:37
schestowitzIn fact, many nations are still not gutsy enough to stand up to abuse.Dec 09 14:37
EruaranAll average users notice is that .docx causes them headachesDec 09 14:37
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schestowitzSome of them get poisoned from the inside (Microsoft cronies), not just US DOJ (aka MS DOJ)Dec 09 14:38
schestowitzEruaran: well, they have to move to headache (.docx), says MicrosoftDec 09 14:38
schestowitzIt's the onyl way to break compatibility with 'evil' things like OOoDec 09 14:38
EruaranOOo is getting more popularDec 09 14:38
schestowitzThat's just another reasons MSOOXML is abuseDec 09 14:39
schestowitzIt's a case of dodging goalposts with a misleading label and battered standards-making framework.Dec 09 14:39
EruaranSo often when I ask someone why they use OOo the first thing they say is, "EXPORT TO PDF!"Dec 09 14:39
schestowitz2 million download per week now.Dec 09 14:39
schestowitzIt used to be 1.1 a year agoDec 09 14:39
schestowitzSo it almost doubled, probably due to: 1) depressionDec 09 14:39
EruaranCompany director asked my why I was using OOoDec 09 14:40
schestowitz2) Crackdowns on what the pirates at Microsoft call copyright infingementDec 09 14:40
EruaranI said, "EXPORT TO PDF!"Dec 09 14:40
Eruaran:PDec 09 14:40
EruaranAnd...Dec 09 14:40
schestowitzI trust TeX moreDec 09 14:40
schestowitzBob Sutor just wrote about it in his blog.Dec 09 14:40
Eruaran"calc works better for me than excel"Dec 09 14:40
schestowitzLaTeX lasts for many years... I don't know about anything else.Dec 09 14:40
EruaranIf you saw how many PDF files I receive and send every day...Dec 09 14:41
schestowitzMicrosoft manufcatured anti-OOo and Apps studiesDec 09 14:41
schestowitzThey used all the shills that they always useDec 09 14:41
schestowitzIDG, Gartner, and BurtonDec 09 14:41
Eruaranthe usual suspectsDec 09 14:41
schestowitzThey even used former Microsoft Office people who started their 'own' bogus companies.Dec 09 14:41
schestowitzFor that too, I think Microsoft should be embargoedDec 09 14:42
Eruaranonce a softie always a softieDec 09 14:42
schestowitzThey put to ridicule the way the industry operatesDec 09 14:42
EruaranyesDec 09 14:42
schestowitzI'm still just trying to explain this to people by gathering evidenceDec 09 14:42
EruaranI would like to see the European Commission revoke their licence to tradeDec 09 14:42
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovellDec 09 14:42
schestowitzThey got poisonedDec 09 14:42
EruaranThe EC ?Dec 09 14:42
schestowitzAs I said before, they ruin opposition from the insideDec 09 14:43
schestowitzWatch what they did to Quinn.Dec 09 14:43
EruaranffsDec 09 14:43
schestowitzYes, EC tooDec 09 14:43
schestowitzThey attack themDec 09 14:43
*Eruaran bangs head against wallDec 09 14:43
schestowitzThey attack Kroes... smear campaigns and allDec 09 14:43
schestowitzScam like Jonathan Zuck at ACT play these games.Dec 09 14:43
EruaranI like KroesDec 09 14:43
schestowitzThey also ruined critics in ISODec 09 14:43
schestowitzThen there's COmpTIA and other spinners.Dec 09 14:43
schestowitzI can point you tyo evidence.Dec 09 14:43
EruaranThey also form lobby groupsDec 09 14:43
schestowitzKroes complained about the smear campaign.Dec 09 14:43
schestowitzThey also vilied her commision, by proxy of course.Dec 09 14:44
Eruaranof courseDec 09 14:44
schestowitzThe criminals from Intel tried to call EU "anti-American"Dec 09 14:44
EruaranhahDec 09 14:44
schestowitzTo Otellini, anti-crime is anti-American.Dec 09 14:44
schestowitzIt's more convenient to put it that wayDec 09 14:44
schestowitzAs though America is crimeDec 09 14:44
schestowitzEruaran: yes, they create new lobbiesDec 09 14:45
EruaranFor that I'd say, "no license to trade for you !"Dec 09 14:45
schestowitzOne of the newer ones is called voicesofinnovation, which is a site created and accomodated by the VoleDec 09 14:45
schestowitzIt's supposed to legalise swpatents in EUDec 09 14:45
schestowitzThey call it pseudo-grassrots, aka AstroTurfing.Dec 09 14:45
EruaranSomeone commented in a forum once, as if it was a threat, that Microsoft should pull out of the EUDec 09 14:46
schestowitzHere is an example I wrote about some hours ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12...Dec 09 14:46
EruaranSomeone else replied, "promise ?"Dec 09 14:46
schestowitzIf EU says "no" to Microsoft, it's not simpleDec 09 14:46
schestowitzMifrosoft is a political beat... it unleashes the hounds.Dec 09 14:46
schestowitzBased on experience.Dec 09 14:46
schestowitzSee the reference about "Spinners" here: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/23/...Dec 09 14:47
EruaranWell I think the presence of Linux in all markets will only increaseDec 09 14:47
EruaranThis will change the marketDec 09 14:47
schestowitzRecent:Dec 09 14:47
schestowitzEC probes OOXML standards-setting processDec 09 14:47
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| A spokesman for the European Commissioner for Competition, Neelie Kroes, told Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| The Register that regulators were continuing to scrutinise interoperability Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| issues related to Microsoft’s products following complaints from the Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Committee for Interoperable Systems (ECIS) group. Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| As part of that process, the EC formally contacted a number of national Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| standards bodies, including the Norwegian Standards Institute (NSI), Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| requesting more details about possible irregularities in the OOXML Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| standardisation process. Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| [...]Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| “It must be stressed that it is not the Commission's intention to influence Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| the outcome of this process, but the Commission considers it essential to Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| ensure that European competition law is not violated in the course of the Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| standard setting process,” he said in an email to El Reg. Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| In January the EC began formal anti-trust probes against Microsoft in two Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| cases where it was alleged that the multinational firm had abused its strong Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| market position. As part of the investigation into the first case, the Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Commission said that it would scrutinise OOXML on the grounds that the Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| specification doesn't work with those of competitors. Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz`----Dec 09 14:47
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/04/oo...Dec 09 14:47
schestowitzRelated:Dec 09 14:47
schestowitzEU Initiates Investigation Against Microsoft OOXML PushDec 09 14:47
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| But with Steve Ballmer taking over as CEO, there was supposed to be a kinder, Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| gentler Microsoft - one that would play nicely with its competitors. When Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| antitrust regulators in turn challenged this new Microsoft, it issued not Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| challenges to fight to the end to prove that it had done nothing illegal, but Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| statements promising to "cooperate fully." Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| But at the same time, Microsoft is still a tough competitor. As Microsoft's Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Director of Corporate Standards Jason Matusow famously warned at his blog Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| last year: Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Make no mistake; all parties are looking at the full pictDec 09 14:47
schestowitzShit.Dec 09 14:47
schestowitzRecent:Dec 09 14:47
schestowitzEC probes OOXML standards-setting processDec 09 14:47
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| A spokesman for the European Commissioner for Competition, Neelie Kroes, told Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| The Register that regulators were continuing to scrutinise interoperability Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| issues related to Microsoft’s products following complaints from the Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Committee for Interoperable Systems (ECIS) group. Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| As part of that process, the EC formally contacted a number of national Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| standards bodies, including the Norwegian Standards Institute (NSI), Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| requesting more details about possible irregularities in the OOXML Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| standardisation process. Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| [...]Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| “It must be stressed that it is not the Commission's intention to influence Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| the outcome of this process, but the Commission considers it essential to Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| ensure that European competition law is not violated in the course of the Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| standard setting process,” he said in an email to El Reg. Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| In January the EC began formal anti-trust probes against Microsoft in two Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| cases where it was alleged that the multinational firm had abused its strong Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| market position. As part of the investigation into the first case, the Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Commission said that it would scrutinise OOXML on the grounds that the Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| specification doesn't work with those of competitors. Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz`----Dec 09 14:47
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/...Dec 09 14:47
schestowitzRelated:Dec 09 14:47
schestowitzEU Initiates Investigation Against Microsoft OOXML PushDec 09 14:47
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| But with Steve Ballmer taking over as CEO, there was supposed to be a kinder, Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| gentler Microsoft - one that would play nicely with its competitors. When Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| antitrust regulators in turn challenged this new Microsoft, it issued not Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| challenges to fight to the end to prove that it had done nothing illegal, but Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| statements promising to "cooperate fully." Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| But at the same time, Microsoft is still a tough competitor. As Microsoft's Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Director of Corporate Standards Jason Matusow famously warned at his blog Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| last year: Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Dec 09 14:47
schestowitz| Make no mistake; all parties are looking at the full pictDec 09 14:47
EruaranAnd erode M$ profitDec 09 14:47
schestowitzThe program I use is messing upDec 09 14:48
schestowitzIs Microsoft Now Banned from EU Contracts?Dec 09 14:48
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/op...Dec 09 14:48
schestowitzEuro MP thinks Microsoft should be banned from government contractsDec 09 14:48
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...Dec 09 14:48
schestowitzGreen MEP says Microsoft should be excluded from EU contract awarding procedureDec 09 14:48
schestowitzhttp://www.heise.de/english/new...Dec 09 14:48
EruaranumDec 09 14:50
EruaranhehDec 09 14:50
schestowitzThey are not just thugs.Dec 09 14:50
schestowitzThey break the law, but their posture in the media has critics characterised badly.Dec 09 14:51
*kentma has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Dec 09 14:51
schestowitzSolution? I know of none. In many people's mind, Microsoft is some company whose hero 'investor' is a philanthropist (Microsoft-owned media sells them this 'story')Dec 09 14:51
Eruaranthe philanthropist whos foundation invests in the very companies that are killing the children they send medicines toDec 09 14:52
schestowitzYes, but you can't say thatDec 09 14:54
schestowitzYou'll be attackedDec 09 14:54
Eruarantoo lateDec 09 14:54
schestowitzBrussels ploughs ahead with biofuel plans < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12... >Dec 09 14:54
schestowitzBillG loves money. “Get me into that and goddam, we’ll make so much money!” --BillGDec 09 14:56
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/... "It’s a “pot of gold,” he declares, pounding the conference table with his fists, triumphant and hungry and wired."Dec 09 14:56
schestowitz"“Get me into that and goddam, we’ll make so much money!” Here is Microsoft in action. In just three hours, it laid plans to buy at least two companies, ditched an alliance with a major financial institution, opted for another and made major moves into “two incredible new worlds,” as Gates put it–home banking and sports entertainment. Another company might take months to accomplish as much."Dec 09 14:57
schestowitzI hear that Bill's partner in tax evasion (Warren) is the same... exploiting weak companies for money and then portrayed as a national hero because he has other people's wealth.Dec 09 14:58
EruaranLike how Microsoft 'rescued' CorelDec 09 14:58
schestowitzHaha.Dec 09 14:58
schestowitzRuined themDec 09 14:58
schestowitzSame with Novell. Just wairt.Dec 09 14:58
schestowitzThey are still /USing/ Novell, not SUing themDec 09 14:59
EruaranThey will use Novell as long as Novell is useful to Microsoft's interetsDec 09 15:00
schestowitzYes. Corel got to close to massive success with Linux.. Microsoft had to 'tame' them... we wrote a lot about the similarities between Novell and Corel... just give Novell some more time to be used as the predator's 'sex slave'Dec 09 15:01
schestowitzIt's an ongoing assimilation strategy.. making all companies just part of the Microsoft Movement rather than independent opposers to it. This means that all companies must use .NET (not Java and LAMP) and OOXML as the format of choice.Dec 09 15:03
Eruaranthe whole reason that an abomination like "WAMP" existsDec 09 15:04
schestowitzHehe. Susan will be angry... http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/3281...Dec 09 15:05
schestowitzWAMP just means that Microsoft is losing.Dec 09 15:06
schestowitzIt can't make people assimilate fast enough... Google and IBM, for example, stand in the wayDec 09 15:06
Eruaranlol @ "Novell's fairy godmother, Microsoft, was also among the losers"Dec 09 15:07
EruaranI predict that Android will soon be running on the iPhoneDec 09 15:08
schestowitzMicrosoft shoots itself in the foot (just in): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/09...Dec 09 15:10
schestowitzHopefully they steer away from Novell.Dec 09 15:10
schestowitzBecause Novell hijacked a conference there recently.Dec 09 15:10
Eruaranooh part 2Dec 09 15:10
schestowitzThat's what I imagined would happenDec 09 15:11
schestowitzMirosoft is squeezing the goose.Dec 09 15:11
schestowitzIt needs -golden eggs- moneyDec 09 15:11
schestowitzI wrote about this yesterday: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/...Dec 09 15:12
EruaranI prophecy Microsoft will go into debt within 12 monthsDec 09 15:12
schestowitzThey'll try to steer the defectors into the 'pen' (Novell), prepared for slaughtering with "patent royalties"Dec 09 15:12
schestowitzEruaran: lessDec 09 15:13
schestowitzIt's almost there NOWDec 09 15:13
schestowitzIt has already approved itDec 09 15:13
EruaranI'm a prophetDec 09 15:13
Eruaran;)Dec 09 15:13
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient...Dec 09 15:13
schestowitz(catching up, in case you are curious)Dec 09 15:13
*_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has joined #boycottnovellDec 09 15:13
EruaranyesDec 09 15:14
schestowitzHey, _doug . You do know about MS and debt, right? I get attacked for mentionning this. It means it hits a nrveDec 09 15:14
schestowitzIf people say that Microsoft is a safe choice because it's rich, tell them the truth about uncerain future.Dec 09 15:15
schestowitzLike SGODec 09 15:15
schestowitzSGIDec 09 15:15
MinceRproblem is, they won't believe itDec 09 15:19
MinceRthere's very little talk about m$ cooking the books afaictDec 09 15:20
MinceRand most people don't seem to realize that vista/vista7 marks the endDec 09 15:20
schestowitzYesDec 09 15:21
schestowitzMany deceptionsDec 09 15:21
schestowitzOne is that Microsoft's press glorifies itself.Dec 09 15:21
schestowitzIntent: build perception that nobody gets fired or left out in the cold for buying Microsoft.Dec 09 15:21
schestowitzIBM understands this tooDec 09 15:21
schestowitzFor contrast, see Sun. Very sad.Dec 09 15:21
MinceRwhat's up with sun?Dec 09 15:21
schestowitzAs for Vista 7,  I think I covered the briberies and manipulations around it.Dec 09 15:22
MinceRyou have but most people don't read BN :/Dec 09 15:22
schestowitzEarlier today I saw the MS press repetition the party lines about Vista 7 being thin and set to be the Holy Ghost on sub-notebooks.Dec 09 15:22
MinceRbut at least in some cases there are a lot of sources one can refer to.Dec 09 15:22
schestowitzI see people in other sites that link to ot.Dec 09 15:22
schestowitzIt's the least one can do whilst also exposing junk media that obeys market (read: money).Dec 09 15:23
schestowitzMarketing is lie. Truth is truth. Marketing pays, truth does not.Dec 09 15:23
EruarangtgDec 09 15:24
EruaranbblDec 09 15:24
schestowitzNew: http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/12/0... see reference to Vista 7Dec 09 15:25
schestowitzWSJ has some Microsoft moles like BenW Dec 09 15:25
schestowitzMicrosoft bloggers dressed up in Vista Aero.. http://www.inanis.net/blog/index... (PHP)Dec 09 15:28
schestowitzEeeek.. http://lunduke.com/?p=27Dec 09 15:29
_dougBBC considers opening iPlayer technology to rivalsDec 09 15:34
_doughttp://www.nma.co.uk/Articles/40743/BBC+...Dec 09 15:34
schestowitzWell, taxpayers paid for itDec 09 15:38
schestowitz.But Microsoft still owns it, no?Dec 09 15:38
schestowitzzoobab: did you get mail from Brett BroesderDec 09 15:41
schestowitzI asked them if it would be possible to interview Mr. Bergelt by mail. Maybe for BN or Datamation... we cover many of these issues, including OIN.Dec 09 15:43
_doughttp://blog.ipdev.net/2007...Dec 09 15:44
schestowitz2007?Dec 09 15:44
_doug"The other side of the coin is that the application uses my upstream connectivity to share files with other peers"Dec 09 15:47
_dougpeer-to-peer to the desktopDec 09 15:47
schestowitzBeen there, done that. Skype too, AKAIKDec 09 15:49
_dougPatents Act 1977: Patentability of computer programs ..Dec 09 15:58
_doughttp://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2008/12/wha...Dec 09 15:58
_doug"The Intellectual Property Office has previously recognised that an invention which either solves a technical problem external to the computer or solves "a technical problem within the computer" is not excluded"Dec 09 15:59
_dougGoogle Native Client Puts x86 On the Web ..Dec 09 16:10
_doughttp://tech.slashdot.org/tech/0...Dec 09 16:10
schestowitzSo I can run my apps on someone else's computer? What about mine?Dec 09 16:12
_dougDunno, might be an OS killer, if it ran fast enough ..Dec 09 16:26
_doug"enables x86 native code to be run securely inside a browser"Dec 09 16:27
_dougSo people could compiler all their old apps for Google and sell them as software-as-a-service ..Dec 09 16:27
_doug"and suggests this in-browser Quake demo,"Dec 09 16:28
schestowitzYesDec 09 16:28
schestowitzSeems like itDec 09 16:28
schestowitzAdobe took a similar route, but with pluginsDec 09 16:28
_doug"A Sandbox for Portable, Untrusted x86 Native Code,", like ActiveX only it's really secure and cross-platform, someone in Redmond must be having nightmares over this :]Dec 09 16:29
schestowitzYesDec 09 16:30
schestowitzI didn't see before... haven't seen it anywhere yet.Dec 09 16:30
schestowitzSlashdot must have been fastDec 09 16:30
PetoKrausOS killer?Dec 09 16:31
PetoKraushow'd you boot? PXE?Dec 09 16:31
schestowitzWell, O/S by google's defDec 09 16:31
schestowitzWhere O/S means 'computer' softwareDec 09 16:31
schestowitzLot of people still call "Linux" an operation systemDec 09 16:32
schestowitzit's not.Dec 09 16:32
schestowitzIt's a platform, a kernel, a manager, a programDec 09 16:32
PetoKrausi know, you don't have to teach me FS basics ;)Dec 09 16:33
PetoKrausin retrospective, buying 4 bottles of pepsi wasn't THAT good ideaDec 09 16:33
schestowitziN wINTER??Dec 09 16:35
schestowitz(oops. Caps). Fedora is an O/S.Dec 09 16:35
PetoKrausschestowitz: no, pepsi.Dec 09 16:35
_dougGoogle syncs bookmarks .. soon I won't need anything but FF plugins :)Dec 09 16:37
_doughttp://www.foxmarks.com/Dec 09 16:37
PetoKrauswell my criteria for a browser are - fast to load, standards compliant, adblocking, gnash support, renders properly with black themeDec 09 16:39
schestowitzPITCH black?Dec 09 16:39
PetoKrausGran Paradiso (ffx's nick in Arch) meets them all, except of "fast to load"Dec 09 16:39
schestowitzI can never get past very dark shades of blue.Dec 09 16:39
PetoKrausschestowitz: even if i tried, i couldn't use lighter theme... :/Dec 09 16:40
PetoKrausthe grayish tones with white letters strain my eyes much much less.Dec 09 16:41
PetoKrausit's pretty personal, i guess...Dec 09 16:41
_dougHackers Hijacked Large E-Bill Payment Site ..Dec 09 16:41
_doughttp://voices.washingtonpost.com/secur...Dec 09 16:41
PetoKraus"hackers"Dec 09 16:41
*Eruaran has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Dec 09 16:42
schestowitzfackersDec 09 16:42
PetoKrauswhat's trend micro doing anyway?Dec 09 16:42
PetoKrauswhat's it's product?Dec 09 16:42
PetoKrausanalysis?Dec 09 16:42
schestowitz"Brian Krebs on Computer Security"Dec 09 16:42
schestowitzHe should know the difference, no?Dec 09 16:43
schestowitzThe same stupid journals that state "pirates" and "piracy"Dec 09 16:43
_doughttp://uptime.netcraft.com/up/grap...Dec 09 16:43
schestowitzTrend Micro? Patents.Dec 09 16:43
schestowitzhttp://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/bo...Dec 09 16:44
PetoKrausohDec 09 16:44
PetoKrausanother interesting feed to read, i guessDec 09 16:44
PetoKrausright, why doesn't liferea talk to my ffx and vice versa?Dec 09 16:46
schestowitzSet it up so that it doesDec 09 16:48
_doug"Drunken Pirate" MySpace pictures loses student job offer ..Dec 09 16:48
_doughttp://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfi...Dec 09 16:48
schestowitzKDE has bindings for thatDec 09 16:48
PetoKrausschestowitz: it used to workDec 09 16:48
neighborleeschestowitz, http://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-l... < I found another one wanting to verify gnome's position of mono/tomboy yadda..few days ago I searched latest release notes for gnome and saw nothing this time about tomboy so maybe its finally gone ?..anyway I know this is a year old post from rms but I never saw it until nowDec 09 16:49
neighborleeUnfortunately, the authors of that website are obstinate in theirDec 09 16:50
neighborleeindifference to the truth, < Jeff waugh of course 'obstinately' <lol> rebuttled that your website is against the truth..wow shock factor engaging ;)Dec 09 16:50
schestowitzJeff is a weaselDec 09 16:52
schestowitzEven some GNOME people no longer take him seriously.Dec 09 16:52
PetoKrausgosh that is stupidDec 09 16:53
PetoKrausgot it nowDec 09 16:53
neighborleeschestowitz, finally ,,great to hear that.Dec 09 16:53
PetoKrausbloody hell that thing is slowDec 09 16:55
PetoKrausi mean, i know i am keeping cache of 500 feedsDec 09 16:56
PetoKrausbut still!!! nzkrgh!Dec 09 16:56
schestowitzYes, feeds are an assDec 09 16:57
schestowitzEven in RSSOwl and Thunderbird it take so much CPU because of multi-threading.Dec 09 16:57
PetoKrauswell, my PC is more IO limitedDec 09 16:59
PetoKrausthe bad thing is - i can't pop in more ramDec 09 16:59
PetoKrausotherwise I guess i'd just mirror my /bin and /lib folders in ramdisk on every bootDec 09 17:00
PetoKraus"Vista superfetchâ„¢€©€®"Dec 09 17:00
PetoKraus"If a wiki site exercises the relicensing option, that entails trusting Creative Commons rather than the Free Software Foundation regarding its future license changes. In theory one might consider this a matter of concern, but I think we can be confident that Creative Commons will follow its stated mission in the maintenance of its licenses. Millions of users trust Creative Commons for this, and I think we can do likewise."Dec 09 17:02
PetoKrausdidn't he have some anti-CC speeches awhile ago?Dec 09 17:02
schestowitzWho did?Dec 09 17:03
schestowitzRMS?Dec 09 17:03
PetoKrausyeahDec 09 17:04
_dougNovell could have done with some vision, leadership and backbone ..Dec 09 17:04
_doughttp://www.newmobilecomputing.co...Dec 09 17:04
PetoKrausi *think* so, i recall him saying something about GPL being TOAO license...Dec 09 17:04
schestowitzHe reconciledDec 09 17:06
schestowitzhttp://www.movingtofreedom.org/2008/12/04/ri...Dec 09 17:06
_doug"in what was apparently a shock to only Roy at Boycott Novell, he says he has proof that Microsoft pays companies to recommend Windows."Dec 09 17:09
_doughttp://lxer.com/module/ne...Dec 09 17:09
neighborleeschestowitz, http://live.gnome.org/RoadMap < might not be mentioned (tomboy) on 224 release notes page but its here : http://live.gnome.org/RoadMapDec 09 17:16
_dougWhat Are The Issues With Open Source Linux?Dec 09 17:16
_doughttp://www.hackingalert.com/hackin...Dec 09 17:16
schestowitz"Since Microsoft has a huge chunk of the operating system's market in the world, it is the first victim of hackers. But that doesn't mean that Linux hacking doesn't exist. Although is less common than it's close sourced companion, there are several reasons why hackers try to hack machines with Linux."Dec 09 17:20
schestowitzMYTHDec 09 17:20
schestowitzMicrosofter says: "I blogged that in  fact Apple's increasing marketshare hadn't led to more attacks—that Microsoft's marketshare mythology is wrong."" < http://blogs.eweek.com/applewatch/content/securi... >Dec 09 17:21
trmancoI tried FF 3.1 b2 todayDec 09 17:25
PetoKrausthe CC commercial/non-commercial thingDec 09 17:25
trmancoI went to boycottnovell to see that <video> and it works :DDec 09 17:25
PetoKrausit's hard questionDec 09 17:25
trmancohttp://digg.com/tech_news/35_Da...Dec 09 17:27
_dougbotnets the new eWMDs ..Dec 09 17:27
_doughttp://www.hoover.org/publi...Dec 09 17:27
trmancoThe Khronos Group Releases OpenCL 1.0 Specification: http://www.khronos.org/news/press/releases/the_kh...Dec 09 17:27
trmancoOpenVG 1.1 Specification Publicly Released by Khronos: http://www.khronos.org/news/press/releases/open...Dec 09 17:28
_doug"Microsoft ..  estimates that 10 percent of Windows computers are infected with malware"Dec 09 17:28
schestowitzCool! I got an interview with the CEO of OINDec 09 17:29
trmanco10%Dec 09 17:30
trmancoLOLDec 09 17:30
neighborleewell thats why people hate vista so much with its system to detect entrusion ( ask for verify on doing things) ..they hate being asked several times for something to happen, though its supposed to decrease threats..supposedly but I have not read any stats its success...it 'used' to be true they were targets but now I suspect its harder? so attacks may become  much less frequentDec 09 17:31
schestowitzFor timely background:Dec 09 17:32
schestowitzhttp://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=...Dec 09 17:32
schestowitzhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB122879...Dec 09 17:32
schestowitztrmanco: thanks, I never tested itDec 09 17:33
schestowitzI got some E-mails about it with advice though... from Debian.Dec 09 17:33
trmancoIt is usableDec 09 17:33
schestowitzExcellent!Dec 09 17:33
schestowitz_doug: over 40% are zombies.Dec 09 17:34
schestowitzMicrosoft used to say only .2% or 2% were infected. It lies a little less as time goes byDec 09 17:34
schestowitzIt uses as a 'method' the rate at which MICROSOFT software removes some stuffDec 09 17:34
schestowitzLies, damn lies, you know the rest..Dec 09 17:35
trmancohey coolDec 09 17:40
trmancoI just helped the FSFEDec 09 17:40
PetoKrausummDec 09 17:41
PetoKrausthe questionairre on CCDec 09 17:41
PetoKrausgodDec 09 17:41
PetoKraussome of the questions are stupidDec 09 17:41
trmancohere -> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org....Dec 09 17:41
_dougClangers creator dead at 83 .. :]Dec 09 17:42
_doughttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/news/7...Dec 09 17:42
PetoKraushttp://pk.gjhak.sk/old/.storage/2008-...Dec 09 17:43
PetoKraus^^ how about being FS supporter?Dec 09 17:43
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twitterIn Zombies we trust had M$ estimating the zombie population at 66%Dec 09 17:55
twitterHere, is the start of my M$ Patent Extortion time line http://slashdot.org/~twitte...Dec 09 17:55
twitterenjoy!Dec 09 17:55
schestowitz66?Dec 09 17:56
schestowitzNot 33%?Dec 09 17:56
schestowitzOr 25%?Dec 09 17:56
schestowitzI think 25% was Cerf in 2006Dec 09 17:56
schestowitzI'm writing about this right now.Dec 09 17:56
schestowitzDone in a few minutesDec 09 17:56
_doug"The 'we win by killing' days are passing"Dec 09 17:57
_doughttp://radar.oreilly.com/archives/20...Dec 09 17:57
twitter66% was a reference to a M$ malware study.  People who thought they had a problem got some kind of program to look into it.  The results found 66% had some form of malware.  I've long  thought that virtually all M$ machines are part of a botnet because it is impossible to secure them.Dec 09 17:59
twitterThey are binary clones and  "critical patches" come out every month.Dec 09 18:00
twitterIn any case, the "In zombies we trust article" lays out the practical implication - you can't do online commerce without large fraud losses unless you refuse to deal with Windows clients.Dec 09 18:01
twitterhttp://it.slashdot.org/articl... and http://it.slashdot.org/article....Dec 09 18:03
twitter" A little over a year ago, I wrote an editorial where in back-of-the-envelope style (.pdf) I estimated that perhaps 15-30% of all privately owned computers were no longer under the sole control of their owner.  In the intervening months, I received a certain amount of hate mail but in those intervening months Vint Cert guessed 20-40%, Microsoft said 2/3rds, and IDC suggested 3/4ths.  It is thus a conservative risk position to assDec 09 18:04
schestowitztwitter: those who have AV SW at least feel secure.Dec 09 18:04
schestowitzI was pissed off some years ago when someone complained we'd diconnected him.Dec 09 18:04
_douga false sense of security ..Dec 09 18:04
twitterSo do SUV drivers, but it's a lie.Dec 09 18:04
schestowitzHis AV S/W said "no virus", so he thought it must be true.Dec 09 18:05
_dougObama should organize a congressional committee on the whole Internet lack of security issue ..Dec 09 18:05
twitterecho "no virus"Dec 09 18:05
schestowitz:-)Dec 09 18:05
schestowitzexit(99);Dec 09 18:06
schestowitzThere needs to be regulation about WindowsDec 09 18:06
schestowitzNot to be used or procured, except in rare cases.Dec 09 18:06
twitter_doug it would be easier to simply demand free software in purchases.Dec 09 18:06
schestowitzMicrosoft employs liars like Jeff Jones to create illusions to CIOs and such.Dec 09 18:06
schestowitzMicrosoft is a marketing (aka Propaganda) companyDec 09 18:06
schestowitzIt buys perception.Dec 09 18:06
twitterthis is all unraveling as they run out of money.Dec 09 18:07
schestowitzYesDec 09 18:07
schestowitzYou can't say thatDec 09 18:07
_doug..........................................................Dec 09 18:20
_dougWhy Does Microsoft Get a Free Pass on Malware?Dec 09 18:20
_doug............................................................Dec 09 18:20
_doughttp://itmanagement.earthweb.com/secu/article.php...Dec 09 18:20
_dougThey need to legislate for malware ..Dec 09 18:21
_douggtg ..Dec 09 18:26
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twitterRoy, what one story would you point someone to to explain M$ media manipulation?Dec 09 18:50
schestowitzI have assortments.Dec 09 18:53
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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/30/...Dec 09 18:53
*macabe (n=macabe@cpe-67-240-216-105.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 09 18:54
twittergoing to look, I'm looking for individual reporter manipulation.Dec 09 18:54
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Omar87Hi allDec 09 18:57
schestowitzHeyDec 09 18:58
schestowitztwitter: there are many example.Dec 09 18:58
schestowitz*example. Watch the links at the bottom of the pageDec 09 18:58
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twitterlots of linksDec 09 19:01
twitterone of the best stories is the one where a reporter is set up for a story and then is accidentally handed his own dossierDec 09 19:01
twitterI can't find the link, as usual.Dec 09 19:02
schestowitzWasn't that in http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... ?Dec 09 19:03
twitterwill checkDec 09 19:04
twitteryes, it's in there.  good stuff.Dec 09 19:05
schestowitzI'm listening to a good talk right now.Dec 09 19:06
schestowitzRelated to this... the history of brainwashDec 09 19:06
schestowitzIn US administration.Dec 09 19:06
twitteroh no, http://www.vcnet.com/bms/depar... failsDec 09 19:06
schestowitzYesDec 09 19:06
schestowitzWe talked about it beforeDec 09 19:06
schestowitzIt's the Boycott Microsoft siteDec 09 19:06
twitterI remember talking and found this live article at the time http://blog.wired.com/business/2007/...Dec 09 19:10
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taconeanyone wants to laugh ? http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12...Dec 09 19:13
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schestowitzLOLDec 09 19:17
taconesee you soon, byeDec 09 19:18
twitterhttp://blog.wired.com/business...Dec 09 19:19
twitterhere you go, a story about M$ media censorship.  Thanks _doug for reminding me about that itmanagment story http://slashdot.org/firehose....Dec 09 19:20
PetoKrausummDec 09 19:20
*tacone (n=tacone@213-156-52-112.fastres.net) has left #boycottnovellDec 09 19:20
PetoKraushow's it in UK with holocaust being crossed out from being lectured about?Dec 09 19:20
PetoKrausi just see a powerpoint presentation talking about this...Dec 09 19:21
twitterthat stop holding our kids back story is funny, but I've seen it in real life.  A BRLUG member had to ask M$ for permission before being allowed to hand out free software at the "free speech" alley of LSU.  There were lots of excuses about not letting commercial vendors spam the place (M$ was allowed to do the same previously) and the M$/LSU contract forbidding types of software distribution.Dec 09 19:24
twitterLand of the free and home of the brave.  Oh yeah.Dec 09 19:25
schestowitzMulti-part lecture, twitter: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=clL4ot... (worth a watch)Dec 09 19:28
schestowitzThis relates to media control and education suffering from censorship too.Dec 09 19:28
schestowitzIf they freeze the 'media' (CNN, Fox, etc) for a day and just project the truth, only then you'll know that they are interested in ending mass brainwash.Dec 09 19:30
twitterI'll check it out.  Broadcast is dying and with it brainwash.Dec 09 19:30
twitterHere's something odd.  Twitter has 179 submissions http://slashdot.org/~twitter/submissions but is not listed in the hall of fame http://slashdot.org/hof.shtmlDec 09 19:31
twitterperhaps they are keeping track of things per year.Dec 09 19:32
schestowitzbblDec 09 19:33
twitterlaterDec 09 19:35
trmancosoDec 09 19:41
trmancoany zero day exploits today after patch Tuesday?Dec 09 19:41
trmanco:-pDec 09 19:41
twitteralwaysDec 09 19:51
PetoKraus:DDec 09 19:51
twitterhere's more corruption, automakers get their bailout.   http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi...Dec 09 19:51
twitterlike that's going to change anything.Dec 09 19:51
MinceRhttp://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6012/...Dec 09 19:52
twitterI like what Bruce Perens had to say about this http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20...Dec 09 19:53
twitterwrong link.Dec 09 19:53
twitterhttp://technocrat.net/d/20...Dec 09 19:53
twitterugh, here's bad news.  http://technocrat.net/d/2...Dec 09 20:09
PetoKrausvirgin media at it's best: http://www.irc.gjh.sk/pastebin/717Dec 09 20:33
PetoKrausLET'S DO CLOUD COMPUTING!!!!!Dec 09 20:35
PetoKraus35s delay!Dec 09 20:35
trmancobtwDec 09 20:38
trmancoFF 3.1 b2 does 92 on acid3Dec 09 20:39
PetoKrausjesus bloody christ, virgin is gonna get deflorated soonDec 09 20:42
PetoKrausWITH SLEDGEHAMMER :)Dec 09 20:42
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_dougBlackDuck: "Huge open source application infrastructure implementations .. only a fraction of overall adoption"Dec 09 20:48
_doughttp://ostatic.com/blog/black-duck-...Dec 09 20:48
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_dougGoogle Native Client challenges Microsoft and Adobe RIAs ..Dec 09 21:07
_doughttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12...Dec 09 21:07
_doug"Google has proposed a model where application calls are made using ptrace in Linux and Mac OS X. Access control lists have been proposed for Native Client on Windows"Dec 09 21:07
twitterWSJ looks at Netflix Silverlight failure, http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/12...Dec 09 21:08
_dougWill Google finally do what MS is incapable of, making the underlying OS safe from the browser ?Dec 09 21:08
_doug'Google wants such applications to be "browser neutral"'Dec 09 21:09
_dougAnd OS neutral ?Dec 09 21:09
twitterThey should and can with ogg theoraDec 09 21:10
GoblinRFDI think Google has the best chance of pulling it off.Dec 09 21:10
twitterYouTube works OK on my Lenny system, Google can and will do better.  Wikipedia is already there.Dec 09 21:10
twitterInternet Archive is going there too.Dec 09 21:10
_doug"Google has released a new technology called Native Client, which is similar to Microsoft's ActiveX."Dec 09 21:11
_dougerr .. NO it isn't ... !!!!!Dec 09 21:12
twitterhttp://blog.netflix.com/2008/12/changes-... looking for comments, something stinks about their "Silverlight is soooo goood we don't need employees line"Dec 09 21:12
-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all. One of our client servers is having some connectivity problems. Please keep with us while we investigate. Thanks!Dec 09 21:12
_doughttp://www.pcworld.com/printable/arti...Dec 09 21:13
MinceRif google's attempts at making software (other than the search engine) are of any indication, Native Client will be a dismal failure.Dec 09 21:14
_doug"Native Client looks similar to Microsoft's ActiveX technology but will run on Linux and the Mac OS as well as Windows"Dec 09 21:14
_dougI guess we'll be reading tomorrow an announcment of msNativeClient that does it betterDec 09 21:15
twitterhere's a guy that did more digging and found Silverlight quality issues http://newteevee.com/2008/12/08/netfl...Dec 09 21:18
twitternasty how that crap has been taken up by Netflix and Tivo but those companies have always been part of the DRM conspiracy.Dec 09 21:19
twitterI'm not going anywhere near Silverlight.  If Netflix quits shipping DVDs they lose my account.Dec 09 21:20
twitterCareer builder fires 300.  http://www.eastvalleytribun...Dec 09 21:22
twitterthey must not have had enough jobs ...Dec 09 21:23
_dougwaiting for ... www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/132050 ...Dec 09 21:23
_dougyou would have thought business was booming ...Dec 09 21:24
twitterhow, no one is hiring?Dec 09 21:25
twitterjob boards have been filled with scammers and bullshit for a long time now.Dec 09 21:25
_dougthe tubes from America are very sluggish at this time of the evening :0Dec 09 21:27
twitterHey, there's good work for budding frauds, " In the financial services sector, some hiring continues as companies lay off workers who make $350,000 and replace them with workers who make $75,000. Goldman Sachs Group Inc., which cut 10 percent of its staff in the last few months, has been running select help wanted ads for junior positions."Dec 09 21:27
twitterhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/...Dec 09 21:27
_doug"Crashed F/A-18 fighter jet .. may have been caused by a power failure, a California congressman said today"Dec 09 21:28
_dougThat's fast work ...Dec 09 21:28
_doughttp://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...Dec 09 21:28
_doug"the top Republican member of the U.S. House Armed Services Committee, said .. was 'likely unrelated' to structural problems with the F/A-18D planes that were identified in October"Dec 09 21:29
_dougmy SPIN~1 detector is flashing like crazy ...Dec 09 21:29
_doug"In November, the Navy grounded 10 F/A-18D Hornets and placed flight restrictions on 20 others after discovering cracks in their aluminum outer wing panel outboard hinges"Dec 09 21:30
PetoKraushttp://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid... -> whooopsie.Dec 09 21:32
_doug"Unfortunately, the fan drive shafts of these engines have a tendency to coke, .. improper maintenance could potentially cause an uncontained failure of the engine resulting in possible loss of aircraft and life"Dec 09 21:35
_doughttp://www.enviro-navair.navy.mil/data/...Dec 09 21:35
_dougIf you're going to trash a businesses reputation on a public blog, then at least have the sense to post under a different name and location, preferably your bosses ;]Dec 09 21:43
_dougEspecially if you still work for them :<<Dec 09 21:44
_dougwhat's the female version of the PHB ?Dec 09 21:45
_doug10 sDec 09 21:45
_doug9 sDec 09 21:45
_doug8 sDec 09 21:45
_doug7 sDec 09 21:46
_doug6 sDec 09 21:46
_doug5 sDec 09 21:46
_doug45 sDec 09 21:46
_doug45-43 sDec 09 21:46
_doug2 sDec 09 21:46
_doug1 sDec 09 21:46
_douganswer required ...Dec 09 21:46
_dougtwitter: re Goldman Sachs hiring on low-cost-labor .. can't you just feel the love :)Dec 09 21:52
_doughi GoblinRFD ..Dec 09 22:03
_douggoodnight JohnBoy, grandpa Walton, Mary Ellen, Jim-Bob .. and what are y'all doing in ma bedroom :)Dec 09 22:05
*_doug has quit ()Dec 09 22:05
GoblinRFDhi dougDec 09 22:06
GoblinRFDoh damn, hes gone :(Dec 09 22:06
twitterVista SP2 fails to impress http://blogs.computerworld.com...Dec 09 22:06
schestowitz_doug (gone): Black Duck is the creation of Microsoft refugee.Dec 09 22:10
schestowitzMinceR: love the picture about motor bailout!Dec 09 22:11
MinceR:)Dec 09 22:11
trmancohahahaDec 09 22:12
trmancoschestowitz, you were rightDec 09 22:13
schestowitz Career builder layoffs? I though many people were looking for a career now...Dec 09 22:13
trmancoschestowitz, take a peek -> http://tirania.org/blog/archive...Dec 09 22:13
PetoKrausMinceR: good one!Dec 09 22:14
schestowitzSeems like the payment ladder is lowered.Dec 09 22:15
schestowitzNext thing you know China will be 'kind' enough to give jobs to AmericansDec 09 22:15
schestowitz[after they buy GM and the likes of it]Dec 09 22:15
twitterThey will show us how to police networks too.Dec 09 22:16
schestowitz*LOL* again?Dec 09 22:16
schestowitzI guess it's Chrismas early.Dec 09 22:16
schestowitzMigi is going home.Dec 09 22:16
schestowitz*Christmas\Dec 09 22:16
trmancololDec 09 22:17
twitterIt's kind of a collaborative effort.  China made demands of Cisco and M$, and will now provide the benefits of their operational experience.Dec 09 22:17
trmanconew super dupper windows vista sp2 with a oct core cpu and 32 gb of ramDec 09 22:17
schestowitztwitter: PRESTON gralla.... his career is tied to the monopolist... I'd rather we didn't feed it.Dec 09 22:18
MinceRthe Leaders of the Free World (also World Police; Land of the Free) will learn Freedom from the glorious Chinese Government? :>Dec 09 22:20
schestowitzCoolDec 09 22:20
schestowitzMy editor is happy to air the interview with OIN's CEODec 09 22:21
schestowitzI just can't use the term "patent troll"Dec 09 22:21
MinceRpftDec 09 22:21
MinceRwhat's his problem with that term?Dec 09 22:21
schestowitzMy editor won't like it. I'll publish this in a 'mainstream' site (with Microsoft ads *cough*)Dec 09 22:23
trmancoGoogle developing Microsoft ActiveX rival: http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/develo...Dec 09 22:23
schestowitzAnyway... off I goDec 09 22:23
schestowitz"Yes, go ahead and do the interview with the CEO of OIN. But please do me a favor and avoid the term "patent troll' in the story. "Dec 09 22:26
schestowitz*LOL*Dec 09 22:26
schestowitzI know how loathed the term is. :-))Dec 09 22:26
MinceR:)Dec 09 22:26
schestowitzCan you give me question ideas?Dec 09 22:30
schestowitzzoobab should probably care.Dec 09 22:30
trmancohttp://ehsanakhgari.org/blog/2008-10-...Dec 09 22:34
trmancowe are almost thereDec 09 22:34
schestowitzMy questions are too hostile..Dec 09 22:36
twitteryou might ask him about the Biski decision.Dec 09 22:37
twitterwhat he thinks of RMS's quote about mosquitoes, malaria and patentsDec 09 22:37
twitteryou should also ask what the thinks of organizations like IVDec 09 22:39
twitteryou there, Roy?Dec 09 22:40
twitterHad I known you wanted questions, I'd have researched earlier.  Good luck.Dec 09 22:41
schestowitzYesDec 09 22:41
schestowitzI'm taking note tooDec 09 22:41
schestowitzMost of my questons are criticalDec 09 22:41
schestowitzYour suggesttions are goodDec 09 22:42
twitterthanks.Dec 09 22:42
twitterask the hostile question, or you won't have them resolved when you write.Dec 09 22:42
schestowitzIf it's too hostile, he might walk awayDec 09 22:44
schestowitzBut it's them who approached me.Dec 09 22:44
twitterJust ask for facts and opinions, so you can get the answers you want.  The point of the interview is to get things straight, that's not really hostile.Dec 09 22:45
twitterGet him to explain what a "high quality" software patent is and how it's different from any other business method patent.Dec 09 22:48
twitterA fun thing to learn would be his estimate on the proportion of high to low quality in his and other company's portfolios.  "How many of the world's software patents are high quality?"Dec 09 22:52
twitter"How about Microsoft, Novell and OIN's?"Dec 09 22:53
twitterthen you might ask him exactly what a high quality software patent is.Dec 09 22:53
schestowitzI won't mention NovellDec 09 22:57
schestowitzThat would bring out the criticsDec 09 22:58
schestowitzYesDec 09 22:58
schestowitzThanks for that.Dec 09 22:58
twitteryou're welcome.  If you have time, you might ask him about Obama's policy.Dec 09 22:58
twitterThat's about all I can think of now.  Good luck with it and have fun.Dec 09 22:58
schestowitzI'll paste here for proofread if that's OKDec 09 22:58
schestowitzAnd for improvement.Dec 09 22:58
twitterOK shoot.Dec 09 22:59
twitterIt won't hurt for them to get their hands on it and prepare good answers will it?Dec 09 22:59
twitterDon't forget to record everything so you can get it right.Dec 09 23:00
schestowitz1. OIN has already attracted some fairly large companies that contributed their patent portfolios. Do you foresee more large companies joining?Dec 09 23:00
schestowitzComments?Dec 09 23:00
twittersounds good.  the converse is if there are any companies that won't be protected.Dec 09 23:01
twittersave that for later :-DDec 09 23:01
schestowitz2. The decision reached in the re Bilski case was discussed quite a lot in legal Web site. What is your personal interpretation of the decision and how does it apply to software patents?Dec 09 23:01
schestowitz*sitesDec 09 23:02
twitterpersonal or OIN?Dec 09 23:02
schestowitz[it was done quickly, so typo-spotting is helpful too]Dec 09 23:02
twitterIt would be good to get both.Dec 09 23:02
schestowitzI guess it can be personalDec 09 23:02
schestowitzUnless he *is* ION.Dec 09 23:02
schestowitzOINDec 09 23:02
schestowitzI'll make it OIN.Dec 09 23:02
schestowitzI'd rather keep it just one question.Dec 09 23:03
schestowitz3. Richard Stallman was quotes as saying that "fighting patents one by one will never eliminate the danger of software patents, any more than swatting mosquitoes will eliminate malaria." What is your take on such point of view?Dec 09 23:04
twittermake it shorter, What's OIN's opinion of the Bilski case?Dec 09 23:04
twitter2.  What's OIN's position and your opinion of the Bilski case.Dec 09 23:05
twitter*?Dec 09 23:05
schestowitz3. What do you consider to be a high quality software patent and how is it different from any other business method patent? How many of the world's software patents are high quality?Dec 09 23:05
*schestowitz makes it shorterDec 09 23:05
twitterAww, I liked the RMS question.Dec 09 23:05
twitterthat's 4, right?Dec 09 23:05
twitterlike 4 tooDec 09 23:06
schestowitz*Richard Stallman was quoted -<typoDec 09 23:06
twitter3.  Richard Stallman once said, "fighting ....Dec 09 23:06
schestowitz4. Do you believe that software patents should be extended or limited in terms of scope? Is it fair to say that OIN's aspiration is not to have them eliminated altogether?Dec 09 23:06
*schestowitz changes RMS qDec 09 23:07
schestowitz6. How would OIN respond to companies which choose litigation or licensing but do not have any products that require them to cross-license?Dec 09 23:08
twitter5. looks good, you might want them to be two questions.Dec 09 23:08
*schestowitz splits QDec 09 23:08
twittergive him time to answer, he's on record saying he believes in software patents, you might not have to aks about abolition at all.Dec 09 23:08
twitterI don't understand 6.  Would he?Dec 09 23:09
schestowitz8. The firm Intellectual Ventures was founded by a former Microsoft executives with the assistance of his former employer, who has been hostile towards Linux (which OIN protects). How can OIN respond to threat from Intellectual Ventures, given that the company has no concrete products?Dec 09 23:09
schestowitztwitter: I don't know if he wouldDec 09 23:10
twitter8.  good questionDec 09 23:10
schestowitz*Executive -< singularDec 09 23:10
twitteryesDec 09 23:11
*schestowitz removes cruftDec 09 23:11
schestowitz8. The firm Intellectual Ventures was founded by a former Microsoft executive with the assistance of his former employer, who has been hostile towards Linux. How can OIN respond to threat from Intellectual Ventures, given that the company has no concrete products?Dec 09 23:11
twitter8. The firm Intellectual Ventures was founded by a former Microsoft executive with Microsoft assistance. How can OIN respond to threat from Intellectual Ventures, given that the company has no concrete products and is hostile to GNU/Linux?Dec 09 23:12
twitterIt's good to get the founding and assistance out in the open, so he can comment on it.  The question remains excellent.Dec 09 23:14
schestowitz9. OIN stepped up to the defence when Microsoft threatened GNU/Linux in May 2007. Jim Zemlin of the Linux foundations explicitly mentioned OIN's role in a memorable article that he published in  Business Week. A year and half later the threats remain, as they were never retracted. Can OIN respond proactively as opposed to defensibly in order to reduce the effect of fear, uncertainty and doubt that still linger?Dec 09 23:14
*schestowitz copies the modified q8Dec 09 23:14
schestowitzref: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2...Dec 09 23:14
schestowitz10. If a situation arises where a project that OIN covers get forked, will the protection be extended to this fork?Dec 09 23:16
twitter9 - do you mean respond proactively to the May 2007 threat or new ones?Dec 09 23:16
schestowitzThat short?Dec 09 23:17
twitterwhat?Dec 09 23:17
schestowitzOh waitDec 09 23:17
schestowitzTo the May 2007 one.Dec 09 23:17
schestowitzOne last q: 11. One common criticism of OIN is that it legitimises software patents whereas other groups challenge the validity of this class of patents. How do you respond to to critics who insist on the latter route?Dec 09 23:18
schestowitz /s/to to/to/Dec 09 23:18
twitterlike question 10Dec 09 23:19
schestowitz11. One common criticism of OIN is that it legitimises software patents whereas other groups challenge the validity of this class of patents. How do you respond to critics who insist on the latter route to challenging threats?Dec 09 23:19
schestowitz(added "to challenging threats")Dec 09 23:19
twitter*patent, class is singular I thinkDec 09 23:20
schestowitzWhere?Dec 09 23:20
twitterquestion 11Dec 09 23:20
schestowitzlegitimises software patent < singular?Dec 09 23:20
twitter"class of patents" to "class of patent"?Dec 09 23:21
schestowitzOh yeahDec 09 23:21
schestowitzI think we're done.Dec 09 23:21
schestowitzhanks.Dec 09 23:22
twitterI have a few more thoughts if you have timeDec 09 23:22
schestowitz12. The cost associated with acquiring patents is too high for some small businesses to afford and OIN does not cover Free/open source software projects higher up the stack which OIN covers. Is it possible that this scope of coverage will change in the future?Dec 09 23:22
schestowitzLast one ^Dec 09 23:22
twitterthat's one of my thoughtsDec 09 23:23
schestowitzMore thoughts would be good too.Dec 09 23:23
schestowitzOr questionsDec 09 23:23
twitter12 is a good question but the wording is confusingDec 09 23:23
schestowitzYes, I know.Dec 09 23:24
schestowitzI did it in a rush.Dec 09 23:24
twitterwhat does "projects higher up the stack which OIN covers" mean?Dec 09 23:24
schestowitzBeyond LinuxDec 09 23:24
twitterAre you asking him how he decides to cover software?Dec 09 23:24
schestowitz12. The cost associated with acquiring patents is too high for some small businesses to afford and OIN does not cover Free/open source software projects beyond Linux. Is it possible that this scope of coverage will change in the future?Dec 09 23:25
twitterAhhh, that's a good question.Dec 09 23:25
schestowitz /s/coverage/protection/Dec 09 23:25
twitterremove second "this" before scopeDec 09 23:26
twitterdope, that's a thatDec 09 23:26
schestowitzI know the answer to thatDec 09 23:27
schestowitzHe talked to Roberto about it, but it's worth hearing againlDec 09 23:27
twitterLooks good.  Finally, you might ask him if he thinks the new US administration will change anything.Dec 09 23:27
schestowitzYupDec 09 23:27
twitterDoes that make a lucky 13 quesions?Dec 09 23:27
schestowitzRegarding patents?Dec 09 23:27
schestowitzYesDec 09 23:28
twitterYes.Dec 09 23:28
twitterpatents and enforcement.Dec 09 23:28
twitterLike if they might clean up that Texas court that all the patent trolls use.Dec 09 23:28
schestowitz13. Do you think the new US administration will change anything regarding patents enforcement?Dec 09 23:28
schestowitz*andDec 09 23:28
schestowitz*cant use the "T" word :-)Dec 09 23:29
twitterAm I confused or is there a court in Texas that patent lawyers love beyond others?Dec 09 23:29
twitterthat might be subject to fraud charges or a change of judge?Dec 09 23:30
schestowitzIt's not the courtDec 09 23:30
schestowitzIt's the whol districtDec 09 23:30
schestowitzRocket DocketDec 09 23:30
schestowitzThey already challenge thisDec 09 23:30
schestowitzRelocations and all..Dec 09 23:30
twitterI wonder if a new administration might be able to fix the problem, so it does not have to be worked around.Dec 09 23:31
schestowitzSame s*, differnet dayDec 09 23:31
twitterOIN's opinion would be more interesting than mine, so you might leave it open ended.Dec 09 23:31
schestowitzSame lobbyists, different dayDec 09 23:31
twittercool stuff, have fun.Dec 09 23:31
schestowitzAmerica iUS) is a one-party stateDec 09 23:31
twitterRight now, I'm going to take care of the state of my dinner.Dec 09 23:32
twitterany last questions before?Dec 09 23:32
schestowitzNo, thanks. A lot.Dec 09 23:33
twitterglad to be of serviceDec 09 23:33
*kapipi (n=tor@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovellDec 09 23:41
schestowitzDoug reckons there's FUD here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/09/g...Dec 09 23:47
*GoblinRFD has quit (Remote closed the connection)Dec 09 23:50
schestowitzGood riddance to bad press: As newspapers fade, Pulitzer embraces Web < http://yahoo-cnet.com.com/8301-10... >; good luck 'competing' on the Web.Dec 09 23:56

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