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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 27th, 2008

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*seller_liar (i=c90dc437@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-241fd25aa884e9bb) has joined #boycottnovellDec 27 00:29
seller_liarNovell bit by bit tries to replace all linux apps to mono appsDec 27 00:29
seller_liarhttp://www.monsoon-project.org/Dec 27 00:30
seller_liarAt this time is Deluge vs MoonsoonDec 27 00:31
seller_liarI don t know if is Novell sponsoredDec 27 00:33
seller_liarBut it's inclued in OpenSuse Installation 11.1Dec 27 00:33
MinceRgnDec 27 01:07
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schestowitz*LOL* the Microsoft Munchhkins threaten to harass my bosses  to have me harmed. :-) They tried this years ago and it got them nowhere.Dec 27 01:55
schestowitzThis Microsoft shill (FACT) links to Homer's site: http://platformevangelism.spaces.live... Damage controlDec 27 02:24
schestowitzThat's the guy who wrote the "evangeligm is WAR" memo. He was in touch with me and another person from COLA. He regrets what he did and only after leaving Microsoft could he understand that (amazing what people do from a check from Don Ballmer).Dec 27 02:27
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schestowitzPeople in have already made up a name for me < http://platformevangelism.spaces.live.c... > : "BoycottBoy" ((that's from a Microsoft blog)Dec 27 04:43
schestowitzWatch Kara and Mossberg pimping each others' stuff in Digg: http://digg.com/users/waltmossbe...Dec 27 06:11
schestowitzhttp://digg.com/users/karaswisher/friendsDec 27 06:12
schestowitzKara diggs MossbergDec 27 06:12
schestowitzMossberg diggs Kara.Dec 27 06:12
schestowitz"Yeah that's for sure. Our country is falling apart and the Chinese are taking over." http://www.mixx.com/stories/3222455/microsoft_...Dec 27 06:17
schestowitzI've just told Var Guy that he was not wrong about Novell. They operate at a loss (about $17 million) and their stock sank by about 50%.Dec 27 06:59
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schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression "There were multiple causes for the first downturn in 1929, including the structural weaknesses and specific events that turned it into a major depression and the way in which the downturn spread from country to country."Dec 27 07:56
schestowitz"Irving Fisher argued that the predominant factor leading to the Great Depression was overindebtedness and deflation. Fisher tied loose credit to over-indebtedness, which fueled speculation and asset bubbles." < like patentsDec 27 07:58
schestowitz"After the panic of 1929, and during the first 10 months of 1930, 744 US banks failed. (In all, 9,000 banks failed during the 1930s)."Dec 27 07:59
schestowitz"In their view, the key cause of the Depression was the expansion of the money supply in the 1920s that led to an unsustainable credit-driven boom."Dec 27 08:02
schestowitzShane O'Neill , CIO.com, seems like Microsoft booster in IDG. He's using their marketing buzz-sentences repeatedly.Dec 27 08:23
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/156081/saty... "Indian outsourcer Satyam Computer Services has demanded an apology from the World Bank for statements made after it barred Satyam from the bank's direct contracts for a period of eight years."Dec 27 08:25
schestowitzThe more I read it, the more similar it seems to what happens at the moment (only the early stages). It hopefully won't lead to a world war :-O 10 years down the lines as it did back then (rise of extreme regimes)... these days the Chinese have nukes too and hydrogen bombs makes world wars super-lethal.Dec 27 08:50
schestowitzSeveral decades ago in Europe (cold war). scientists warned that the survival of the human species is at stake. There was almost a nuclear strike, but it was avoided at the end.Dec 27 08:50
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schestowitzWhoa. Like 100 people per day come to Boycott Novell after searching for information about the Microsoft layoffs. That's like double what it used to be.Dec 27 09:28
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mib_ngbaqdholaDec 27 09:39
schestowitzHeyDec 27 09:41
schestowitzWhat's up?Dec 27 09:41
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mib_ngbaqdBN got on a top ten blog list: http://www.junauza.com/2008/12...Dec 27 09:48
schestowitzCool.Dec 27 09:51
schestowitzGetting credit from one of my favourtie blogs feels good.Dec 27 09:52
schestowitzRockers to Press Obama on Music Torture < http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/1... >Dec 27 10:33
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PetoKrausthx for the email royDec 27 10:57
schestowitznpDec 27 10:57
schestowitzI thought about this laterDec 27 10:57
schestowitzMicrosoft has a nice cycle goingDec 27 10:57
schestowitzMicrosoft earns money, some is passed to Gates (Foundation), which then funnels it back to governments, who in turn feel obliged to pay Microsoft excessively for software (BECTA and the NHS for example).Dec 27 10:58
schestowitzThe way this is set up, politicians and Microsoft get rich in this closed cycle of money, where the 'feeder' in the taxpayer. GNU/Linux companies are locked out of this cycle because they can't introduce kickbacks and such. It's quite a classic structure of corruption.Dec 27 10:59
MinceRhayDec 27 11:52
schestowitzMorning, mib_ngbaqd Dec 27 11:53
schestowitz*MinceRDec 27 11:53
schestowitzWatch this comment in this Microsoft boot-licking post: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mic...Dec 27 11:55
schestowitz"Source for the numbers?"  ... "The company. I asked a spokeswoman." [oh yeah.. so we know how independent the blog is] .. "I'd love to see the breakout of donated cash vs. software. Giving away software for free (e.g. to schools) is just a way to get people hooked on the Microsoft product chain."Dec 27 11:56
schestowitzThere are so many ads in that blog today... Jo has gone mad. Server viral marketing... cheap drug^H^H^H^HOfficeDec 27 11:58
trmancowas that you? :-PDec 27 11:58
schestowitzI think that layoff speculations had the Microsoft bloggers who are /supposed/ to be impartial just huddle together Dec 27 11:59
schestowitztrmanco: no, someone else. I think I only left 3 comments in this blog... EVER.Dec 27 11:59
trmancookDec 27 11:59
schestowitzLast one was to point out that he was boosting a Microsoft shill  'study' (attack on Google Apps from former Microsoft employees)Dec 27 12:00
trmancohey coolDec 27 12:07
trmancowhat a warm welcome on COLADec 27 12:07
trmanco:DDec 27 12:07
schestowitzGary loves meDec 27 12:10
trmancowhat? is he gay or something?Dec 27 12:10
schestowitzI think so. Others think so too.Dec 27 12:11
schestowitzGary loves me... to death. Hopefully he's broke enough that he can't make his death wishes and threats more than just words. I'm in a high-security area, so..Dec 27 12:12
schestowitzI'm waiting for that reply from ErikFu... let's see if he knows James.. http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/12/une...Dec 27 12:14
trmancoooDec 27 12:16
trmancoa Windows live siteDec 27 12:17
schestowitzHe used to live in Australia briefly, but he came (back?) to Texas, which leaves me wondering what happened.Dec 27 12:18
mib_ngbaqdI tried reading more of that dude James' blog, but damn if it wasn't making me sick to my stomachDec 27 12:29
schestowitzWhich parts?Dec 27 12:31
schestowitzhe embellishes, you know? What the memo in question. He talks about "Jihad" over and over again.Dec 27 12:31
mib_ngbaqdjust about everything from the first post on. So slimy and soulessDec 27 12:31
mib_ngbaqdno self-respect, like the iraqi information minister or somethingDec 27 12:32
schestowitzThey work for money.Dec 27 12:32
mib_ngbaqdso does blackwaterDec 27 12:32
mib_ngbaqdso do drug dealersDec 27 12:33
schestowitzI think education should intervene here and teach people that making money at the expense of ethics and other people's pain is not acceptable.Dec 27 12:33
mib_ngbaqdyeah it's the pure lack of ethics that is disturbingDec 27 12:33
mib_ngbaqdit's almost sociopathicDec 27 12:34
schestowitzSomeone asked me: "What's that acronym that 'Waggener Edstrom' and/or MS uses when they are on a targeted propaganda blitz, SMOG or something ?" Well, it's the Slog (example from this morning < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/... >) But I thought the term was attributed to James P. Did anyone see W-E using this term? Is it a 'global' thing in MS Ecosystem?Dec 27 12:35
schestowitzIf all the court evidence was in plain text, then it could be indexed and thus searched, but it's not. :-(Dec 27 12:36
schestowitzHere is a neat HTML version: http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cac...Dec 27 12:41
mib_ngbaqdsome of those .ppt files might be nice ... "evangalism is war"?Dec 27 12:43
schestowitzI have bits of them and Groklaw has some tooDec 27 12:45
schestowitzThis one is the best: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.ph...Dec 27 12:45
schestowitzShe published this just before the BRM, IIRC, after I had sent her this material suggesting that she exposes Rick Jelliffe-like characters.Dec 27 12:46
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php?... "I find it telling that Microsoft had to remind the Microserfs that they are, in fact, the good guys. Because that document reads to me like "We're the bad guys, and we're going to use any means, ethical or unethical, to crush the competition.""Dec 27 12:48
schestowitz"By using such concepts as evangelism and jihad, MS is aligning themselves with activities normally used by religious extremism. Jihad is a term more often associated today with terrorism. "Work for MS and become a commercial terrorist" The PDF is full of tried and tested brainwashing techniques. Apart from Microsoft, is this sort of thing generally practiced in American businesses? If so, I'm glad I don't work there, but I'm now mDec 27 12:48
schestowitzore scared of what MS will do in my country than I am of going to the middle east."Dec 27 12:48
mib_ngbaqdI love this one: "In one piece of mail people were suggesting that Office had to work equally with all browsers and that we shouldn't force Office users to user our browserDec 27 12:48
mib_ngbaqdThis is wrong and I wanted to correct this."Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqdnice quote thereDec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqdFrom: Bill Gates himselfDec 27 12:49
schestowitzWhere is this quote of yours from?Dec 27 12:49
schestowitzmib_ngbaqd: really?Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqdhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.i...Dec 27 12:49
mib_ngbaqdcheck it outDec 27 12:49
schestowitzI know about that memo about "PROPRIETARY capabilities"Dec 27 12:49
schestowitzWait, this is new to meDec 27 12:50
mib_ngbaqdit goes on about proprietary HTML extensions as wellDec 27 12:50
schestowitzLet me see if I have the text.Dec 27 12:50
mib_ngbaqdit's a good oneDec 27 12:50
schestowitzYes, but there is more than one.Dec 27 12:50
schestowitzHold on.Dec 27 12:50
mib_ngbaqd"We want to make Trident extremely hard to clone. I think we want to patent elementts of Trident"Dec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqdand so onDec 27 12:51
schestowitzThe one I think about is shown as an image at the bottom of: http://gotthefacts.org/Dec 27 12:51
schestowitzScroll downDec 27 12:51
schestowitzIt's also OCRedDec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqdthat is similar in message, but it is a different emailDec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqdcheck the pdf linkDec 27 12:51
mib_ngbaqdit's pretty damning straight from BillG himselfDec 27 12:52
schestowitzWowDec 27 12:52
schestowitzThis fits a post I was going to unleash this afternoon.Dec 27 12:52
schestowitzGood find.Dec 27 12:52
schestowitzExcellent work.Dec 27 12:52
mib_ngbaqdheh. thanksDec 27 12:52
mib_ngbaqdYou can't read that as anything but official MS policy. None of that "some divisions" working in some areas crapDec 27 12:53
schestowitzAll those memos contain a lotDec 27 12:53
schestowitzThe court didn't use them all.Dec 27 12:54
schestowitzMicrosoft settled the case WITHIN WEEKS and the evidence requested burialDec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqdYup. And check it out ... if you put that pdf together with the one at the bottom of the page you mentionDec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqdthat alone shows BillG pushing the message for 2 yearsDec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqdjan 97 - dec 98Dec 27 12:54
schestowitzThe original Comes vs Microsoft site went down (pw-protected) very abruptly... no time for people to know about the settlement and arhive.Dec 27 12:54
mib_ngbaqdso it's not a once-in-a-while thingDec 27 12:55
schestowitzGood pointDec 27 12:55
schestowitzThe other messages more people are familiar withDec 27 12:55
schestowitzWe circulated it more widely.Dec 27 12:55
mib_ngbaqdI'm gonna look through those docs a bit more ... i think a post of straight up BillG messages like that would be pretty powerfulDec 27 12:56
schestowitzIf you read them for leisure and come across the smoke, then hollerDec 27 12:56
schestowitzThere's lots of dross and cruft in there, but the plaintiff knew what to show the judgeDec 27 12:56
schestowitzThey had some accompanying notes... these are just to be treated like appendices.Dec 27 12:57
schestowitzSee http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-m...Dec 27 13:08
mib_ngbaqdBillG:Dec 27 13:38
mib_ngbaqd"We should design some of our extensions explicitly so that IBM can't run them under OS/2. We need to put real thinking into this."Dec 27 13:38
schestowitzI turned it into a .SIGDec 27 13:41
schestowitzI'd post it as large-sized quote on occasionsDec 27 13:41
mib_ngbaqdhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacons...Dec 27 13:41
mib_ngbaqdThat's in 91, so that shows ~8 years of the "incompatibility strategy"Dec 27 13:42
mib_ngbaqdI'm just looking for quotes straight from BillG or Ballmer on it right nowDec 27 13:42
schestowitzExcellent.Dec 27 13:44
schestowitzThey rarely talk these two...Dec 27 13:47
schestowitzI don't see them E-mailing each other directly... rarely if not never.Dec 27 13:47
mib_ngbaqdBillG (On some proposed extensions):Dec 27 13:54
mib_ngbaqd"I have decided that we should not publish these extensions. We should wait until we have a way to so a hight level of integration that will be harder for the likes of Notes, Wordperfect to achieve, and which will give Office a real advantage."Dec 27 13:55
mib_ngbaqdhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa...Dec 27 13:55
schestowitzExcellent, I'll post this now.Dec 27 13:56
mib_ngbaqdAnd here is that one from the Russian site, except direct link to PDF:Dec 27 13:57
mib_ngbaqdhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa...Dec 27 13:57
mib_ngbaqdThat's about office depending on proprietary IE capabilities and so on.Dec 27 13:57
schestowitzI have a longer post coming, but I'll set focus on this one.Dec 27 13:58
mib_ngbaqdBillG:Dec 27 13:58
mib_ngbaqd"One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn't try and make the "ACPI" extensions somewhow Windows specific."Dec 27 13:58
mib_ngbaqd"It seemes unfortunate if we do this wrok and get our partners to do the work and the reresult is that Linux works great without hacving to do the work"Dec 27 13:59
mib_ngbaqd"...Or maybe we could patent something related to this"Dec 27 13:59
mib_ngbaqdhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowac...Dec 27 13:59
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/2...Dec 27 14:01
schestowitzmib_ngbaqd: that's a classic (ACPI)Dec 27 14:01
schestowitzI wrote about it many times. I submitted it to Digg and it made the front page, Wikipedia article on ACPI, etc.Dec 27 14:02
schestowitzSo it's known to many more people who now disseminate this information. Dec 27 14:02
schestowitzWhat you do it hugely valuable in seeding knowledge about smoking gunsDec 27 14:02
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mib_ngbaqd"Bill Gates ordered to all application business units to include checking routines of operating environments and if it is Microsoft DOS, nothing will happen.Dec 27 14:05
mib_ngbaqdBut if it is non-MS-DOS (such as DR-DOS), application will display messages...Dec 27 14:05
mib_ngbaqdhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.iow...Dec 27 14:05
schestowitzGood one.Dec 27 14:05
schestowitzThe rest is important thoughDec 27 14:06
schestowitzIt says "this application have been developed ans tested for MS-DOS"Dec 27 14:06
schestowitzIt's different from Brad Silverberg on actually faking errorsDec 27 14:06
mib_ngbaqdRight, just didn't want to type the whole thing out. I'm lazy :)Dec 27 14:07
mib_ngbaqdand bad typistDec 27 14:07
schestowitzI was going to stick with another quoteDec 27 14:07
schestowitzI have a post coming laterDec 27 14:07
schestowitzI don't want to post too fast.Dec 27 14:07
schestowitzAnd I need to proofread it properly.Dec 27 14:07
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mib_ngbaqdhaha ... Jim Allchin: "I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft'Dec 27 14:11
mib_ngbaqdhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacon...Dec 27 14:12
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schestowitzThat's a well known one.Dec 27 14:14
schestowitzThere are better ones from AllchinDec 27 14:14
schestowitzLike.. "We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger….If you’re going to kill someone, there isn’t much reason to get all worked up about it and angry. You just pull the trigger. Any discussions beforehand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger."Dec 27 14:15
mib_ngbaqdBillG: "It hink supporting JDK 1.2 is fine and I am hard core about NOT supporting JDK 1.2"Dec 27 14:25
mib_ngbaqd"I think supporting JDK 1.1 is fine..."Dec 27 14:25
mib_ngbaqdhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www....Dec 27 14:25
schestowitzWowDec 27 14:26
schestowitzLike ODFDec 27 14:26
schestowitzSame versionsDec 27 14:26
schestowitzI'll just point out that when Microsoft declared support for ODF 1.1 people were like "What?!?! Why not 1.2?"Dec 27 14:26
mib_ngbaqdActual code to display a "this is not MS-DOS and may void your warranty message"Dec 27 14:27
mib_ngbaqdhttp://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowa...Dec 27 14:27
mib_ngbaqdthat's too technical for a blog post, i just think the message is funnyDec 27 14:28
schestowitzYesDec 27 14:29
schestowitzReminds me of Vista jokes that show source code that's simplifiedDec 27 14:29
*schestowitz edits the text with the code :-)Dec 27 14:41
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mib_ngbaqdhey clean up that quote a little on the front page man!Dec 27 15:21
schestowitzWhich one?Dec 27 15:24
schestowitzI found a typoDec 27 15:24
schestowitzhightDec 27 15:24
schestowitzFixed it some minutes agoDec 27 15:24
mib_ngbaqdso ... doDec 27 15:24
schestowitzaspell detected and underlines it. FF didn'tDec 27 15:24
mib_ngbaqdnot "so a high" ... "do a high"Dec 27 15:25
schestowitzFixedDec 27 15:25
mib_ngbaqdthere you go ... you know people would rather nit-pick shit like that than debate a real pointDec 27 15:26
schestowitzTypos too?Dec 27 15:30
schestowitzI know Groklaw is paranoid about typos cause people use that to discredit the text. So she always writes something like, "for accuracy, use the PDF"Dec 27 15:31
mib_ngbaqdyeah, you have to pay attention like that, because most of the time pro-MS / pro-Novell people don't have a real argumentDec 27 15:32
mib_ngbaqdso it's shit like personal attacks and grammar/spelling nit-picking and suchDec 27 15:32
schestowitzI just keep my personal life more private, but schestowitz.com makes it harder to 'pull an incognito'Dec 27 15:33
zoobablive from BerlinDec 27 16:24
schestowitzmib_ngbaqd: thanks for making this post possible: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/m...Dec 27 16:28
schestowitzzoobab: will you rebut OIN when you get back to Brussels?Dec 27 16:29
schestowitzBecause I want to post something.Dec 27 16:29
zoobabI need to write an article about what is wron with collective shiledsDec 27 16:30
zoobabshieldsDec 27 16:30
zoobabbut it is Maginot LineDec 27 16:31
zoobabI think it is a good analogyDec 27 16:31
zoobaband good PRDec 27 16:31
schestowitzGood PR for who? Berlin?Dec 27 16:34
schestowitzReader: "I was just wondering if there was a MS policy on how to handle naughty tech journalists or OSS advocates, such as disrupting their forums. Tactics like, joining up and pretending to be reasonable advocates, but slowly turning weird and abusing others. In other words trolling. But we would need strong evidence of such activities and a trail leading right back to W-E."Dec 27 16:35
schestowitz"What you should do is get some disinterested party to subscribe to a MS FUD-pack. That way they'll have advance warning of the next wave of BS ."Dec 27 16:35
mib_ngbaqdgood postDec 27 16:36
schestowitzThanks. I have more on the way, but I'll keep them for laterDec 27 16:39
mib_ngbaqdtypo? "momentary filp"Dec 27 16:40
trmancohttp://www.digibarn.com/collections/...Dec 27 16:42
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schestowitzJust got a pointer to this front pager: http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_fu...  mailed says: "This type of stuff gets me really riled up... Meeks and Novell out to damage our community..." It's old news. Can anyone type up a rebuttal against MSNOV go-oo?Dec 27 18:11
schestowitzDon't touch Microsoft/Novell Go-OO. It's a trap.Dec 27 18:13
trmancoballnux doesn't work pretty well >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost...Dec 27 18:41
schestowitzI'll do a postDec 27 18:43
schestowitzIn COLA, I say nothing about SUSEDec 27 18:44
schestowitzKeeping it invisible is the best one can do so that people don't consider it as an optionDec 27 18:44
trmancoI can't seem to find any good experiences today, but I'll keep lookinDec 27 18:45
trmancofound oneDec 27 18:46
trmancosort ofDec 27 18:47
schestowitzSupport forums are for problems.Dec 27 18:48
trmancoyes but some forums have a testimonial/experiences sectionDec 27 18:49
schestowitzOh wait!Dec 27 18:54
schestowitzIt's from 3 weeks ago!Dec 27 18:54
schestowitzThat's pre-release or 11.0Dec 27 18:54
schestowitzAh well..Dec 27 18:54
trmancodangDec 27 18:54
trmancoI forgot to check thatDec 27 18:55
schestowitzJust FYI. It's the beginning of mass exposition. < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/27/mic... > I receive some E-mails about it that are interesting but am not allowed to publishDec 27 19:39
schestowitzJudging by the response from The ErikFU troll at COLA, he too is likely one of the TEs ((shills)Dec 27 19:39
trmancoLOLDec 27 19:46
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seller_liarI was thinkingDec 27 19:49
trmancoth trolls suddenly exploded on COLA against you this weekDec 27 19:50
seller_liarme?Dec 27 19:50
schestowitzGo-OOXML: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/2...Dec 27 19:50
seller_liarOpensuse includes moonsonDec 27 19:51
seller_liara mono torrent appDec 27 19:51
schestowitzIt occured to me that this would be an effective way to have people shun the Novell/MS fork of OOoDec 27 19:51
schestowitzCall it Go-OOXMLDec 27 19:51
seller_liarhttp://www.monsoon-project.orgDec 27 19:51
schestowitztrmanco: they are getting badly explosedDec 27 19:51
schestowitz*exposedDec 27 19:51
schestowitzThey may also be losing their jobDec 27 19:51
schestowitzOne of the E-mail I've just received confirms that Microsoft has its Munchkins game a very large technology siteDec 27 19:52
trmancoseller_liar, do you consider yourself a troll? do you post on COLA?Dec 27 19:52
schestowitzseller_liar: yes, I knowDec 27 19:52
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schestowitzNovell wants Mono to succeed.Dec 27 19:52
seller_againDec 27 19:52
schestowitztrmanco: huh?Dec 27 19:52
seller_Opensuse Already includes monsoonDec 27 19:52
seller_11.1Dec 27 19:52
schestowitzLucian is not in COLA and he's not a troll, either.Dec 27 19:53
trmancowell, if they lose there job they can finally start a new year with a new real jobDec 27 19:53
schestowitzThey can'tDec 27 19:53
schestowitzThey're f*edDec 27 19:53
seller_Lucian?Dec 27 19:53
trmancowho is lucian?Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz*en?Dec 27 19:53
schestowitzI thought it was his name.Dec 27 19:53
seller_Oh , the irc name is not my real nameDec 27 19:54
schestowitzNever mind.Dec 27 19:54
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schestowitzseller_: ah, OKDec 27 19:54
trmanco:-PDec 27 19:54
seller_Explain me trmancoDec 27 19:54
seller_Cola trolls was attackinm me?Dec 27 19:54
trmanconoDec 27 19:54
schestowitzseller_liar will have people prejudiced, think you are trolling by seling lies.Dec 27 19:54
trmancoCOLA trolls are stacking Roy, aggressivelyDec 27 19:55
trmancoattacking*Dec 27 19:55
seller_trmanco: okDec 27 19:55
seller_http://www.monsoon-project.orgDec 27 19:55
seller_trmanco: thanksDec 27 19:55
seller_Mono strategy :Dec 27 19:55
seller_Argument : best technical app using c#Dec 27 19:56
trmanco:|Dec 27 19:56
trmanco...Dec 27 19:56
trmancoI didn't even know this existedDec 27 19:56
seller_and then replace the current appDec 27 19:56
seller_Example rythmybox - > bansheeDec 27 19:56
seller_Ubuntu torrent -> MoonsonDec 27 19:57
trmancono waysDec 27 19:57
seller_trmanco: what?Dec 27 19:57
trmancoTransmission owns on my Ubuntu installationDec 27 19:57
seller_trmanco: But stay alertDec 27 19:59
schestowitztrmanco: stacking tooDec 27 19:59
seller_trmanco: Someday probably people will tell :Dec 27 19:59
trmancoschestowitz, I have to check what stacking means, it was a typoDec 27 19:59
schestowitzLike stacking a panel, pretending to be more than they are by multi-nymming.Dec 27 19:59
seller_"Wow , moonson is better , I do not want transmission anymoreDec 27 19:59
trmancoschestowitz, thanks, you saved me some seconds :-PDec 27 19:59
schestowitzseller_: yes, that was predictableDec 27 20:00
schestowitzThey sponsor banshee nowDec 27 20:00
schestowitzIt also become a video playerDec 27 20:00
schestowitzSearch BN archives and you'll see our posts about Windows DRM too.Dec 27 20:00
seller_schestowitz: Yes , I knowDec 27 20:00
schestowitzseller_: they try to make non-Mono apps a second-best choiceDec 27 20:01
seller_schestowitz:Dec 27 20:01
schestowitzIt's like selling proprietary apps based on preinstallation or temptation.Dec 27 20:01
seller_schestowitz: yes, but the real problem is IKVM and Ja.netDec 27 20:02
seller_These projects tries to transform all java codebase in c# codebaseDec 27 20:02
seller_The solution for this problem is to promove another high-level languageDec 27 20:04
seller_and to port mono to javaDec 27 20:04
schestowitzYes, I know.Dec 27 20:04
schestowitzWhat about Parrot?Dec 27 20:05
seller_parrot is Virtual machineDec 27 20:06
seller_It's not a real frameworkDec 27 20:06
seller_http://www.gnu.org/software/sather/Dec 27 20:06
seller_It's a good language capable to compete with c#Dec 27 20:06
seller_And we need to implement .net to javaDec 27 20:06
seller_We does not permit to push all java devs to c#Dec 27 20:07
seller_We do notDec 27 20:07
schestowitzSun has a project to achieve this, no?Dec 27 20:08
seller_schestowitz: What project?Dec 27 20:09
schestowitzI thought you'd shown me something.Dec 27 20:09
seller_I remeber , net2javaDec 27 20:10
seller_schestowitz: But the development has been stopDec 27 20:10
seller_stoppedDec 27 20:10
seller_and It's not a real framework like jython or jrubyDec 27 20:11
seller_It's only a source code converterDec 27 20:11
schestowitzAsk Sun about it.Dec 27 20:11
schestowitzWith .NET, Microsoft hopes to get DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1Dec 27 20:12
schestowitzIt's also fighting to control hypervisors and 'clouds' right now, in addition to formatsDec 27 20:12
seller_schestowitz: And weakens java , and gives more power to M$Dec 27 20:12
seller_schestowitz: VirtualBox works in Windowz?Dec 27 20:13
schestowitzYes, also platform discrimination and patents.Dec 27 20:13
schestowitzThey use AstroTurfers to promote .NETDec 27 20:13
schestowitzAmong other technologies like XAML (Silver Lie)Dec 27 20:13
schestowitzI hope to have them busted for their illegal behviour (it breaks EU law)Dec 27 20:14
seller_schestowitz: I know ,but M$ will never changeDec 27 20:14
seller_seller_: Every company of this world tries to be uniqueDec 27 20:15
seller_schestowitz: Every company of this world tries to be uniqueDec 27 20:15
seller_schestowitz: For example , Intel conquer all processors marketDec 27 20:15
schestowitzSome break laws; some don;tDec 27 20:15
schestowitzMicrosoft violates EU laws.Dec 27 20:15
seller_schestowitz: and then Intel tries to conquer all vga marketDec 27 20:16
schestowitzIt should be fined or embargoed. I have lots of evidence.Dec 27 20:16
seller_schestowitz: I know , but there are a lot of lobbyDec 27 20:16
schestowitzIn fact, class action lawsuit can be organised by their victims.Dec 27 20:16
schestowitzLobby should be illegal tooDec 27 20:16
schestowitzFFII doesn't agree with meDec 27 20:16
schestowitzLobby=legalised corruptionDec 27 20:16
seller_schestowitz: Lobby is a crimeDec 27 20:17
schestowitzIt's like that Kissinger-type mafia-wannabe politicsDec 27 20:17
seller_schestowitz: It's a way to put all company desires over community and societyty desiresDec 27 20:17
schestowitzOr AbramoffDec 27 20:17
schestowitzPractical crimes!= ethical crimesDec 27 20:18
schestowitzRemember who writes (buys) the law . ;-)Dec 27 20:18
seller_Lobby should be considered a crimeDec 27 20:19
seller_We don t never support lobbyDec 27 20:19
seller_I was thinking .....Dec 27 20:20
schestowitzThere are rules on limitation, but they are poorly enforcedDec 27 20:20
seller_A m$ shill is :Dec 27 20:20
seller_Pro intelDec 27 20:20
schestowitzIn the UK for example...Dec 27 20:20
schestowitzIntel has its own army of lobbyistsDec 27 20:20
schestowitzI used to track it more closely in Intel's case and I have proofDec 27 20:20
schestowitzI wrote this yesterday: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/...Dec 27 20:21
seller_How to detect a m$ shillDec 27 20:22
seller_He likes intelDec 27 20:22
seller_He hates firefoxDec 27 20:22
seller_and he hates free movement (not only opensource movement)Dec 27 20:22
seller_A lot of m$ shills hates stallmanDec 27 20:23
schestowitzYesDec 27 20:23
schestowitzThey try to poison people against himDec 27 20:23
schestowitzThis makes him a taboo for someDec 27 20:24
schestowitzIt they glue labels like "communism" onto him, then they hope that others will dissociate themselves from GNU.Dec 27 20:24
seller_Comunnism are words of m$ to try to destroy free movementDec 27 20:25
seller_free software is not communismDec 27 20:25
seller_It's only fair reason:Dec 27 20:25
seller_software is not a material thing,  it 's only a materialized ideaDec 27 20:26
schestowitzIt's the oppositeDec 27 20:27
schestowitzFree software is democracyDec 27 20:27
schestowitzCommunism is having no choice.Dec 27 20:28
MinceRwhat can i show m$ fanboys who repeat the "equally evil" argument?Dec 27 20:28
seller_proprietary software is communismDec 27 20:28
schestowitzMinceR: lotsDec 27 20:28
schestowitzThey use their shills to sing this.Dec 27 20:28
seller_MinceR: Try to count how many attacks some company doesDec 27 20:28
seller_For example , novell is evil , but M$ is a LOT more evilDec 27 20:29
schestowitzGood essay: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/20...Dec 27 20:29
seller_seller_: MinceR :Try to explain the real intention of companyDec 27 20:30
seller_MinceR: For example , some troll tries to explain what is Sun is evilDec 27 20:30
schestowitzMicrosoft's man in Europe carries communist-era baggage < http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto... >Dec 27 20:30
seller_MinceR: Sun is not evil , because Sun have good intentions about free softwareDec 27 20:31
schestowitzseller_: they sell hardwareDec 27 20:31
seller_MinceR: But m$ has not, instead , m$ have bad intentionsDec 27 20:31
schestowitzOpenSolaris they are hoping to bundle with servers.Dec 27 20:31
seller_schestowitz: But OpenSolaris is very memor consumingDec 27 20:32
schestowitzMicrosoft has h/w like mice and some disasters like XBox and Zune that lose $billionsDec 27 20:32
MinceRsun doesn't have good intentions about all free softwareDec 27 20:32
schestowitzSo Microsoft was never able to succeed at the h/w business.Dec 27 20:32
schestowitzThat's why it attacks F/OSSDec 27 20:32
schestowitzMicrosoft lets Dell et al choke on thin (razer-thin) margins.Dec 27 20:33
schestowitzBrainwash of choice: tubes... http://www.itwire.com/content/view/22479/1054/ (U.S. uses Internet over newspapers, but TV still tops)Dec 27 20:35
schestowitzApple’s next hot product: the iLoo < http://www.deviceguru.com/apples-next-... >Dec 27 20:36
schestowitzA good place for dropping the iX where they belong... and flush.Dec 27 20:37
MinceRyes, but how do you get rid of the iLoo?Dec 27 20:40
trmancoI've just posted some experiences on COLADec 27 20:43
trmancothis time Linux Mint 6Dec 27 20:43
schestowitzMinceR: it sucks itself inDec 27 20:44
schestowitzLike a toilet on a planeDec 27 20:44
MinceRthat's niceDec 27 20:53
MinceRbest feature in a crApple product everDec 27 20:54
trmancowhat do you prefer? POP or IMAP ?Dec 27 20:57
MinceRdepends on what forDec 27 20:57
trmancoemailDec 27 20:57
trmancopersonal emailDec 27 20:57
MinceRi prefer POP3 to fetch all my mail onto my personal imap serverDec 27 20:58
MinceRand i prefer IMAP to access it thereDec 27 20:58
schestowitzThis guy could use an iLoo: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/...Dec 27 20:58
schestowitz"APPLE MESSIAH Steve Jobs has been a bit sick lately but according to US gossip reports it could be a lot worse than anyone thought. The sultan of smug has been seen parking his motor in a disabled carparks in Palo-Alto much to the horror of Apple fans who believe him to be capable of healing the sick with his beautiful entertainment toys."Dec 27 20:58
seller_ schestowitz Why to a be a fan of monster of business?Dec 27 21:00
schestowitzMoneyDec 27 21:00
schestowitzMonsters befriend monstersDec 27 21:00
schestowitzThen they perfume it to themselvesDec 27 21:00
schestowitz"I'm just writing code"Dec 27 21:00
schestowitz"I'm just carrying an artillery shell"Dec 27 21:01
schestowitz"I'm just flying CIA sharpshooters in a helicopter"Dec 27 21:01
seller_schestowitz: Money transforms monster in prince via brainwashingDec 27 21:01
schestowitz"I'm just annoying people with telemarketing call so that I can feed my baby"Dec 27 21:01
trmancogrrDec 27 21:04
trmancomy bnc went offline for a couple of minutesDec 27 21:04
schestowitzbnc?Dec 27 21:07
schestowitzJust got this: ""Yeah, Meeks has been out to do as much damage as he can to OOo.  I'm not sure what his motivation is but it does not matter. What is a good approach to neutralize his rants?""Dec 27 21:28
schestowitz"In general, MS proxies have been running such campaigns against Sun. OOo is hurting MS more than most people could ever imagine. OpenDocument Format is only a small part of that.  OOo marketing needs to put down Meeks, warn of the dangers in his fork of OOo, and steer people to the real OOo."Dec 27 21:29
schestowitzI got some E-mails about Debian too. But it must remain privateDec 27 21:29
schestowitz"Unfortunately, Debian is going to become the battle ground, if it has not already.  Same for KDE."Dec 27 21:29
trmancoschestowitz, yes a bouncer, psyBNCDec 27 21:30
trmancohttp://www.gnome.org/~michael/bl...Dec 27 21:39
schestowitzIs this the old one?Dec 27 21:40
trmanco"Why is my bug not fixed ? why is the UI still so unpleasant ? why is performance still poor ? why does it consume more memory than necessary ? why is it getting slower to start ? why ? why ? - the answer lies with developers: Will you help us make OpenOffice.org better ? if so, probably the best place to get started is by playing with go-oo.org and getting in touch, please mail us. "Dec 27 21:40
trmancodon't knowDec 27 21:40
schestowitzFUDDec 27 21:41
trmancoit's on diggDec 27 21:41
schestowitzYes, I knowDec 27 21:41
schestowitzI wonder who Dugg this very old newsDec 27 21:41
trmancomy bouncer went offline again :(Dec 27 21:41
trmanco650 diggsDec 27 21:41
schestowitzI submitted a rebuttal at the time and it got about 90 DiggsDec 27 21:41
trmancodon't like the first comments so farDec 27 21:41
schestowitzI posted a comment, but too lateDec 27 21:41
trmancofound a good oneDec 27 21:43
trmanco"I'm not buying this either. This is another attempt by Microsoft to come through the backdoor. Remember the Microsoft strategy: embrace, extend, exterminate. They've already 'embraced' open source by admitting that it is a threat. They tried to 'extend' it by making patent-protection deals (read: extortion) with companies like Novell, Xandros, Linspire, etc. and now they want to exterminate projects like OO.o by convincing developers to fight amDec 27 21:43
trmancoongst themselves and work on alternatives like Novell's go-oo.org. Don't believe ANYONE who works for a Linux or OSS company deals with Microsoft. They aren't out to help OSS. Microsoft wants to control it and kill it (regardless of what they tell you in their press releases). This is a classic trojan horse. "Dec 27 21:43
trmancofinallyDec 27 21:44
schestowitzHaha. http://shanghaiist.com/2008/12/27/chinese_n... So it's kinda like the US, but it's "them", not "us" (or "US"). So when does the Republic of the People buy GM and Citigroup?Dec 27 21:46
*seller_ has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Dec 27 21:49
schestowitzOK, I've left another comment: "A change is still being negotiated. Things have happened since it all blew up (Kohei solver). A better name for Go-OO would be MS-Go-OO-XML. Novell was a promoter of OOXML and Microsoft used this to ram it down ISO's throat."Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz"I suppose you don't think about the patents associated with it and the Mono (.NET). It's an attack on Java too, to elevate the Microsoft API. There is also a good chance that Microsoft will buy Novell some time in the future, along with its copyrighted assets that include many GNU/Linux programs. "Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz"They would also buy out the WordPerfect lawsuit that way (about a third of Novell's market cap). Based on Sun's word, Go-OO is a fork. Novell's friends would try to deny this."Dec 27 21:54
trmanco:)Dec 27 21:56
*kapipi has quit ("Ah Nah!")Dec 27 22:25
*kapipi (n=tor@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovellDec 27 22:33
schestowitzThe Gartner Gang must be paid lots of money from Novell/Microsoft to produce this propaganda: http://www.moreinterop.com/download.aspx...Dec 27 23:50

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