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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 30th, 2008 - Part 2

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Omar87mhmmDec 30 15:51
Omar87have fun.Dec 30 15:51
schestowitzHeh.Dec 30 15:53
schestowitzNice. We've just been put in the front page of Linux TodayDec 30 15:54
Omar87Cool!Dec 30 15:55
schestowitzhttp://appdb.winehq.org/object...Dec 30 15:55
schestowitzWe have about 10,000 hits/hour todayDec 30 15:56
schestowitzPavel Mah (Linux Hax0r) is shout-spamming in Digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Obligato...Dec 30 16:13
schestowitzI've only just realised this.Dec 30 16:13
schestowitzDigg has detected this behaviour and blocked it from the FP, but in the past he managed to sneak through.Dec 30 16:13
schestowitzThat, to me at least, is why Digg is kaput. Front page stories are not important news, but mostly people who spam for or game the system somehowDec 30 16:14
schestowitzIn 2006, 30 legitimate Diggs would put you in the front pageDec 30 16:14
schestowitzThe news that was accepted was much better. Than came the gamers and marketing people to ruins the site for everyone.Dec 30 16:15
trmancohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J...Dec 30 16:27
trmancohttp://digg.com/odd_stuff/Digg_is_R...Dec 30 16:29
schestowitzHaha.Dec 30 16:29
schestowitzWatch the top!!Dec 30 16:29
schestowitzPavel MahDec 30 16:29
schestowitzTalk about headshotDec 30 16:29
schestowitzHehe. Done watchingDec 30 16:31
schestowitzBeing 'senior' is one thingDec 30 16:31
schestowitzgaming is anotherDec 30 16:31
schestowitzI left a comment to Pavel telling him not to shout-spamDec 30 16:31
schestowitzShout-spamming is why Itottally disabled this feature after it was introduced.Dec 30 16:31
schestowitzPeople kept spamming me asking for DiggsDec 30 16:32
schestowitzI did like 5 interviews for people who approached me re: Digg and I told them all this. I'm surprised it's not common knowledge.Dec 30 16:33
schestowitzHere are those guys whom you think sound like borgs: http://linuxvoid.com/2008/12/29/...Dec 30 16:34
schestowitz*whoDec 30 16:34
schestowitz: -( Debian mourns the loss of Thiemo Seufer < http://www.debian.org/News... >Dec 30 16:37
schestowitz"The Debian Project has lost an active member of its community. Thiemo Seufer died on December 26th in a tragic car accident."Dec 30 16:37
schestowitzLilo from freenode dies in an accident on his bike a few years agoDec 30 16:37
schestowitz*diedDec 30 16:37
*neighborlee (i=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovellDec 30 16:55
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schestowitzwb, kapipi, neighborlee. neighborlee  Jo is out. I didn't ask him; he just knocked himself out for losing an argument.Dec 30 17:35
neighborleeschestowitz, yup I know ;)Dec 30 17:36
schestowitzIf he can't convince others, then he quitsDec 30 17:36
neighborleeschestowitz,  hard to forget his   use of expletives, but as usual not surprising ;))Dec 30 17:36
kapipiThanks :-DDec 30 17:37
neighborleeschestowitz, Jo ( and those like him) are so caught up in their push for mono and derivitives that they dont get that their language undermines their goals, though its good for us so I'd say..and on losing: he(they) lost a LONG time ago ;)Dec 30 17:38
schestowitzRemember this?  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/29/microso...  Well, I assume the chap is either trying to grab a bit of fame by exposing dark secrets that are now leaked or is trying to pass guilt to Microsoft. There was a little frication between him and his employer, which tried to characterise him (and his presentation) as a lone wolf, a dissident.Dec 30 17:46
schestowitzAnother theory is that the guy saw all the bad publicity about him on the Web, so he tried to correct it. Maybe some life experience drove him to remorse.Dec 30 17:47
kapipiAllow me to ask: What is wrong with using mono?Dec 30 17:47
kapipi(Not that I disagree, I just don't have any informed opinion :-)Dec 30 17:48
schestowitzThere are severalDec 30 17:48
schestowitzTo phrase them out roughlyDec 30 17:48
schestowitz1) it gives Microsoft API controlDec 30 17:48
schestowitz2) it put burden of MS-owned patents on Linux developersDec 30 17:49
schestowitz3) it makes Linux apps dependent on the way .NET evolvesDec 30 17:49
schestowitz4) It gives a Microsoft ally (Novell) control. It owns Mono.Dec 30 17:49
schestowitzAnd so on and so forthDec 30 17:49
kapipiDoes MS own mono?Dec 30 17:50
kapipiOr are they just able to influence it strongly?Dec 30 17:50
schestowitzWhy else do you think MS bloggers promote Mono?Dec 30 17:50
schestowitzIn the past, MS asked them not to "because we [it]  reserves the right to sue]Dec 30 17:50
schestowitzSaid ScobleDec 30 17:51
schestowitzkapipi: Mono is a followerDec 30 17:51
schestowitzLike Firefox follows HTMLDec 30 17:51
schestowitzIE tried to deviate from Web standardsDec 30 17:51
schestowitzIt's not easyDec 30 17:51
kapipiBut theoretically, the mono developers are free to follow a MS path or not aren't they?Dec 30 17:53
schestowitzTricky one here.Dec 30 17:54
schestowitzFirstly, by deviating, the whole false 'promie about RAND-Z goes awayDec 30 17:54
schestowitzSame issue with OOXMLDec 30 17:54
schestowitzMoreover, there's the compatibilitu and dependency issueDec 30 17:54
schestowitzI argued over this point with Jo Shields last wekDec 30 17:54
schestowitz*weekDec 30 17:54
kapipiHmm, I think I'll have to do a bit of googling, I don't know the RAND-Z issueDec 30 17:56
kapipibbl :-DDec 30 17:57
neighborleekapipi, mono is only 'free' for those of novel, see here: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s... < but this is only the tip of the iceberg,,feel free to discover the facts. That and moonlight, the supposed freee version of silverlight has been solidly rejected by fedora and debian both..that and slverlight downloads ( from M$'s own site) is only for     vista and apple which says alot imho.Dec 30 18:05
neighborleekapipi, its a issue with a very lengthy portfolio ;)Dec 30 18:05
neighborleekapipi, that and,M$ has gone out of its way to make only it face known and hopefully used by everyone..to the extent that it trys to circumvent oss technology ( see: ooxml ), linux is  a 'cancer' ( ballmer comment), etc.etc...oh and that its  kinda risky using softare ( unlesss you are forced to ?) from a covicted monopolist ;)Dec 30 18:07
neighborleeas I say as you read you find out more, its all out there on google etc..:)Dec 30 18:07
schestowitzbblDec 30 18:32
kapipiRead the silverlight license story neighborlee posted. Meh, I hate legalese.Dec 30 18:52
neighborleeditto ^Dec 30 18:53
kapipiIt's hard to read, even in my native language.Dec 30 18:54
neighborleekapipi, roy has done a great job of trying to give all the facts, comment on themand remain objective..so BN is good to stay up to date on many things, but as well feel free to google as I noted earlierDec 30 18:54
neighborleekapipi, yes it isDec 30 18:55
kapipiokDec 30 18:55
neighborleeI hate legalese too,,its really annoyingDec 30 18:55
neighborleeI found out hard way, when having to digest my fathers will with a dear friend of mine..Dec 30 18:55
neighborleethen another friend suggested we check out  a law d ictionary , which yielded answer we needed ;)Dec 30 18:56
neighborleeweird stuffDec 30 18:56
kapipiI want to form my own opinion on the novell / ms issues, but, on the other hand I don't have much time to read lengthy articles about it :-DDec 30 18:57
kapipiI have a part time job which involves administrating novell servers, and as a student I'm doing research on a novell sponsored project (project-banshee), so I fell that  need to get at least a bit of info on the subject.Dec 30 19:00
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellDec 30 19:03
neighborleekapipi, not uncommonDec 30 19:39
neighborleekapipi,personally it not just  mono &/or moonlight per se afa its license yadda..to me anything coming from a untrusted source like MIcrosoft is automatically lacking serious credibility due to their treatment of ODF, the cancer comment by ballmer ( linux is a 'cancer') and the nassssty ISO incident which many countries have since objected to soundly..they just dont play ball on the same level as the rest of us.Dec 30 19:42
neighborleekapipi, to me they are all red flags, so why should I trust microsoft to offer any kind of standards ?Dec 30 19:43
neighborleebut anyway,,read what you can and enlighten yourself.Dec 30 19:43
trmancohow are the gas prices in you country?Dec 30 19:54
neighborleenot down far enough :))Dec 30 19:56
neighborleebut im cheap..I want the days of .35 again ! lolDec 30 19:56
neighborleeatm I think near us, they are $1.85/galDec 30 19:56
neighborleeat least better than $4.89 ooooooooomgosh that was nastyDec 30 19:57
neighborleecheaper the further west of us you go..basicallyDec 30 19:57
trmancohow much is a gallon in liters?Dec 30 19:58
neighborlee2x I think ~Dec 30 19:59
trmancoin my country diesel is at 0.95 € per literDec 30 19:59
trmancostill too expensiveDec 30 19:59
neighborlee Dec 30 19:59
neighborlee1 US gallon = 3.78541178 litresDec 30 19:59
trmancoalmost 4Dec 30 19:59
neighborleeyupDec 30 19:59
neighborleeyeah diesel is still nasty hereDec 30 20:00
neighborleefeel sorry for truckersDec 30 20:00
trmancogasoline here is more than 1€, I don't know the exact priceDec 30 20:01
schestowitzkapipi: if you need a longer article, see http://boycottnovell.com/faq/Dec 30 20:06
schestowitzAmerican gallon of British gallon?Dec 30 20:08
trmancoAmerican I guessDec 30 20:10
schestowitzHere's an interesting thing.Dec 30 20:18
schestowitzYou ask an editor to do an article about Microsoft's dirty trick.Dec 30 20:18
schestowitzThen, they change the subjectDec 30 20:19
schestowitzI tried to publish in the press about the AstroTurfing from Microsoft.Dec 30 20:19
schestowitzAnyway, I have another plan. I'll do an  interview when soon when something important  comes. :-) Some of my older questions were too intrusive. I love dissecting issues and readers do too. It benefits all. But editors and suits hate it.Dec 30 20:20
schestowitzYou must stick to conventional statement, but only concision can ever achieve this. If you want to express a lesser known point of view, then you must provide a lot of evidence, and this simply can't be wrapped up briefly.Dec 30 20:21
schestowitzHere we go again. More IT Budget, Staff Cuts Expected in 2009 < http://www.pcworld.com/article/156143/m... >; AMD Costs Layoffs at $70M, Can't Say Yet About ATI Writedown < http://www.pcworld.com/article/156141/amd_cost... >Dec 30 20:22
schestowitzPeople didn't say the "D" word and "L" word over Xmas, but it'll come back shortly.Dec 30 20:23
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/156157/fry... (Fry's Electronics VP Faces Criminal Charges and Lawsuit)Dec 30 20:24
kapipineighborlee: but how far should you let the "untrustworthiness" reach? to novell? to novell sponsored projects?Dec 30 20:25
kapipibut yes, ms is definitely in the gray-to-black area for meDec 30 20:27
schestowitzMr. Neighbor has been a Mono critics for yearsDec 30 20:27
schestowitzEven before the Microsoft deal.Dec 30 20:27
schestowitz*Critic (singular)Dec 30 20:28
schestowitzNext year we might have that infamous Internet disaster Lessig warned about:  Crime to boom as downturn blooms < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn... >Dec 30 20:29
schestowitzGina Trapani's back: http://lifehacker.com/5120228/whats-on-...Dec 30 20:30
schestowitzHmmm... the guy who ran some OOo blog/s has a new personal one and collects donations (AndrewZ): http://bleachbit.blogspot.com/2008...Dec 30 20:40
schestowitzCould he be laid off from Sun or something?Dec 30 20:41
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/20...Dec 30 20:48
kapipiThe linux registry cleaner myth.. must be a joke right?Dec 30 20:52
schestowitzNot really?Dec 30 20:53
schestowitzIt's like cookie cutterDec 30 20:53
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2...Dec 30 20:56
schestowitzIt's funny because it shows the very same person whom I mentioned earlie (Pavel) for shout-spamming, i.e. abusing, Digg.Dec 30 20:58
schestowitzAs Economy Dips, Arrests for Shoplifting Soar < http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/23/... >Dec 30 21:02
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schestowitzSame with cybercrime of course.Dec 30 21:02
schestowitzhttp://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/20... Why be there in the first place? Oil?Dec 30 21:03
schestowitzCarrying Gunpowder through Airport Security < http://wildbee.org/2008/12/09/carrying... >. War on nonsense.Dec 30 21:04
*neighborlee has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Dec 30 21:06
trmancoLOOLDec 30 21:07
trmanco"I have a video on my hard drive and it won't play as a meesage from MediaDec 30 21:07
trmancoPlayer says "my Digital Rights License has expired". How can I get to playDec 30 21:07
trmancothis video on my pc? The file is a WMV."Dec 30 21:07
schestowitzWhere from?Dec 30 21:07
trmancohttp://groups.google.com/group/24hoursup...Dec 30 21:07
schestowitzI heard of people who can't view family video because some stupid Western Digital HDD are made defective by designDec 30 21:08
neighborlee_kapipi, anywhere I have a choice of what software to use , I take that choice very seriouslyDec 30 21:09
schestowitzI can't link to it.Dec 30 21:09
schestowitz"Pay for it, you pirate cunt. "Dec 30 21:09
neighborlee_kapipi, if I knew a given car manufacturer was unworthy of my money and trust in their products, you can be sure Id look elsewhere ;)Dec 30 21:09
neighborlee_schestowitz, woah ;)Dec 30 21:10
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, It would appear one of our US client servers have fallen off the edge of the discwo^H^H^H^H^H^Hinternet and all but vanished! We're looking into the issue now and hope to have it back soon. Affected users ~3K. Apologies for the inconvenience and thank you for flying freenode!Dec 30 21:10
kapipiI'm not sure I could find any car manufacturer with a clean record.Dec 30 21:10
neighborlee_I hope you get my pointDec 30 21:11
neighborlee_if that means going with honda, vs ford, ill do itDec 30 21:11
schestowitzPalamida helps the spreading of fear: http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/n...Dec 30 21:11
kapipiI do, but for me it's more a matter of finding the lesser evil (with cars)Dec 30 21:11
schestowitzIt says nothing about IE and WIndows total compromises, with exploits in the eildDec 30 21:11
kapipiWith software, it's finding the lesser riskDec 30 21:12
neighborlee_kapipi, and form atm anyway,the lesser evil is kde, and no monoDec 30 21:12
neighborlee_for me ^Dec 30 21:12
kapipiHmm, I would not be happy to have to dump gnome.Dec 30 21:12
neighborlee_and I am not either ;)(Dec 30 21:12
neighborlee_:(Dec 30 21:12
neighborlee_very unhappy about itDec 30 21:13
kapipiso you are dumping it based on the connections to novel?Dec 30 21:13
neighborlee_I amDec 30 21:13
kapipior to mono?Dec 30 21:13
neighborlee_yesDec 30 21:13
neighborlee_I wont go anywhere near it atmDec 30 21:13
schestowitzIt seems like we lost no-one in #bn because of that downtime.Dec 30 21:14
schestowitzOther channels lost some.Dec 30 21:14
neighborlee_:)Dec 30 21:14
kapipiI don't think I have a problem using gnome. But perhaps I am happily uninformed.Dec 30 21:15
neighborlee_its their adoption of tomboyDec 30 21:16
kapipiAh my favorite appDec 30 21:16
neighborlee_and my least n eeded ;)Dec 30 21:16
neighborlee_ymmv ;)Dec 30 21:16
benJImanIf only it were free software so you wern't forced to use that particular component.Dec 30 21:16
kapipiI am heavily addicted to it.Dec 30 21:16
neighborlee_benJIman, correcgtDec 30 21:16
neighborlee_ectDec 30 21:16
neighborlee_kapipi, you should know there are alternativesDec 30 21:16
neighborlee_kapipi, zim etc.Dec 30 21:17
neighborlee_zim is just as good I hearDec 30 21:17
neighborlee_maybe better in some regardsDec 30 21:17
neighborlee_just fyiDec 30 21:17
neighborlee_bbl thx for chat as alwaysDec 30 21:18
kapipiThank you tooDec 30 21:18
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-1350...Dec 30 21:22
kapipineighborlee_: personally I would not dump gnome / tomboy on grounds of the usage of mono, to use the car allegory, you probably won't scrap your ford when you found out the company manufactured most of Nazi germanys car parkDec 30 21:25
MinceRcan they sue you for using mono without owning a suse license?Dec 30 21:26
kapipibut on the other hand I hope that the novell connections will become less problematicDec 30 21:26
MinceRthe community should disconnect from novellDec 30 21:27
MinceRthat would solve the problemDec 30 21:27
kapipiI don't think it's that simple, company sponsorship can be good, but perhaps some projects needs to be more critical of the terms under which they're sponsored.Dec 30 21:32
schestowitzSSL broken! Hackers create rogue CA certificate using MD5 collisions < http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2339 >Dec 30 21:42
MinceRsome company sponsorship can be good, but you can't expect anything good from sponsorship by micro$oft.Dec 30 21:42
neighborlee_MinceR, even their own employees have often been bitten, as can be seen from the vista compatible mess they created..a engineer got bitten by it and their own PR sales rep said they should fix things now , rather than latre and they ignored her.Dec 30 21:45
neighborlee_id have to google but I recall reading all about itDec 30 21:46
neighborlee_the engineer had purchased a high spec laptop and couldn't run vista,,he was very disappointed it seemsDec 30 21:47
MinceRneighborlee_: is that related to some comment i've made? :)Dec 30 21:47
neighborlee_no directlyDec 30 21:47
MinceRokDec 30 21:48
neighborlee_but it does relate to MIcrosoft and       things coming from them needing to be held to high suspicionDec 30 21:48
MinceRicDec 30 21:48
neighborlee_<MinceR> some company sponsorship can be good, but you can't expect anything good from sponsorship by micro$oft. < last partDec 30 21:48
neighborlee_reminded me I guess about those two instances.Dec 30 21:49
schestowitzNovell is funded by MSDec 30 21:49
schestowitzThe money they got from MS to f* kill(C) Linux is far more than Novell has earned from Linux /COMBINED/Dec 30 21:49
schestowitzAFAIKDec 30 21:49
schestowitzAs in, /ever/ (since buying SUSE)Dec 30 21:50
neighborlee_of course, its in their own interest, that moonlight and mono became a defacto standard ;))Dec 30 21:50
schestowitzMOOX tooDec 30 21:50
neighborlee_wth is that ;))Dec 30 21:50
schestowitzHence translater, go-ooxmlDec 30 21:50
neighborlee_ahhhhDec 30 21:51
neighborlee_:))Dec 30 21:51
neighborlee_its really a shame..I like some of the things opensuse does, but they are major tainted in that mono is there by default and , last I checked, trying to remove mono usually was met with huge resistance from yast ;(Dec 30 21:52
neighborlee_but I  gotta admit I love their installer,,its amazing.Dec 30 21:52
schestowitzGentoo Sucks, Ubuntu Doesn’t. < http://biodegradablegeek.com/2008/12/g... >Dec 30 21:52
schestowitzBlunt.Dec 30 21:52
neighborlee_and the os itself has some nice polishDec 30 21:52
MinceRneighborlee_: can you find that article... or quote some good search terms for it?Dec 30 21:52
neighborlee_ill tryDec 30 21:52
neighborlee_its been ages since i read about itDec 30 21:53
neighborlee_roy might know about it  quicker, but im happy to lookDec 30 21:53
MinceRi'm not sure those things make gentoo "suck"Dec 30 21:53
MinceRif something isn't the best, that doesn't mean it sucksDec 30 21:53
neighborlee_where does gentoo come into thisDec 30 21:54
neighborlee_did I post something in the wrong channel :(Dec 30 21:54
MinceRwhat schestowitz linkedDec 30 21:55
schestowitzneighborlee_: what about?Dec 30 21:55
MinceRalso, lol at the site logoDec 30 21:55
neighborlee_ah sorry :)))Dec 30 21:55
schestowitzI wasn't paying attentionDec 30 21:55
MinceRneighborlee_: sorry, i should have been more specificDec 30 21:55
neighborlee_me either :))Dec 30 21:55
neighborlee_lolDec 30 21:55
neighborlee_MinceR, haha npDec 30 21:55
*schestowitz feels lostDec 30 21:55
*MinceR finds schestowitz Dec 30 21:56
schestowitzLost in translation...  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0335266/ good film BTW.Dec 30 21:56
schestowitzA man finds that there's life beyond the mundane rubbish.Dec 30 21:56
schestowitzeWeek ran out of editor.Dec 30 21:58
schestowitzNow it runs out of materiaDec 30 21:58
schestowitzThey have nothing to post, they they repost comments as an 'article': http://www.channelinsider.com/c/a/News/Vista-V...Dec 30 21:58
schestowitzEweek = ZIff|Gates=bankruptDec 30 21:58
schestowitzHere's the thingDec 30 21:59
schestowitzI see a headline with that "Linux killer" BS againDec 30 21:59
schestowitzI don't click on it and won't feed it, BUTDec 30 21:59
schestowitzThese are ADULTS who write this rubbish.Dec 30 21:59
schestowitzAnd this is news?Dec 30 21:59
schestowitzThis is aggregated by Google News? Supposedly professional reporters write like a bunch of kids with toys about Windows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux and ""Linux is teh s0cks" Dec 30 22:00
schestowitzIt's pathetic that whitepapers no longer find fanciers... articles get shorter tooDec 30 22:01
schestowitzThose who tried to stick to old article format die tryingDec 30 22:01
neighborlee_http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mic...Dec 30 22:01
schestowitzSo people just read headline, sound bites and maybe summarise. Just loook at Digg. it's all just inane one-linersDec 30 22:01
neighborlee_not what I was looking for specifically but its definitely bizarre,,maybe roy already posted something on this o_0Dec 30 22:01
schestowitzOld newsDec 30 22:02
schestowitzI posted lots about itDec 30 22:02
schestowitzSearch BN for "collusion"Dec 30 22:02
schestowitzIntel is a criminal company too.Dec 30 22:02
schestowitzAnd I had to argue and justify that statement to people: http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/28267/Dec 30 22:03
schestowitzIf you say "SCO is corrupt", everyone nodsDec 30 22:03
schestowitzIf you say "Saddam is evil", people accept it.Dec 30 22:03
neighborlee_ah ic okDec 30 22:03
schestowitzBut if you say "Intel is a ciminal organisation" people gasp and yell at yaDec 30 22:03
schestowitzYou can't offer a concise argumentDec 30 22:03
neighborlee_sad but yeahDec 30 22:03
schestowitzPeople know too littleDec 30 22:03
schestowitzSo you must provide long justificationDec 30 22:04
schestowitzConcision won't cut itDec 30 22:04
neighborlee_yeahDec 30 22:04
schestowitzHad I said it about MS at Lxer, that would be conventional, conformistDec 30 22:04
neighborlee_the hastles of being a good reporter indeedDec 30 22:04
schestowitzIt's time to show more people what Intel is made of and what it doesDec 30 22:04
schestowitzPeople who read Groklaw and BN know better about IntelDec 30 22:04
neighborlee_its good we have solid sources if information to make decisions indeedDec 30 22:05
neighborlee_if/ofDec 30 22:05
schestowitzI gave good sourcesDec 30 22:06
schestowitzIn the LXer threadDec 30 22:06
schestowitzPeople were quiet afterwards (in comparison)Dec 30 22:06
MinceR231626 <@schestowitz> These are ADULTS who write this rubbish.Dec 30 22:07
trmancowhat is a zealot?Dec 30 22:07
MinceRfor a particular definition of adult, that isDec 30 22:07
MinceRi'd say most of the human population aren't really "adults"Dec 30 22:07
neighborlee_MinceR, sadly, this is why 'vote of the people' isn't always what it may seem ;))Dec 30 22:08
schestowitzMinceR: fair point, m8Dec 30 22:08
MinceRneighborlee_: indeedDec 30 22:08
schestowitztrmanco: zealot is passionate about somethingDec 30 22:08
MinceRwe can't expect reasonable government from the material we have to work with.Dec 30 22:08
schestowitzBut zealot has a connotationDec 30 22:08
schestowitzLike the word propagadnaDec 30 22:08
neighborlee_MinceR, agreed,,sadly.Dec 30 22:08
schestowitzpropaganda connotation = GoebbelsDec 30 22:09
neighborlee_schestowitz, it sure does ;)Dec 30 22:09
schestowitz zealot connotation = MuslimDec 30 22:09
trmancoschestowitz, ok thanksDec 30 22:09
schestowitzThat post about MS shills triggered a nerve, so we'll do over 200,000 hits todayDec 30 22:10
schestowitzAnd another record month, despite it being a 'holiday' month.Dec 30 22:11
schestowitzRare new image of Carla: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.p...Dec 30 22:15
neighborlee_schestowitz, woah ;Dec 30 22:17
neighborlee_:)Dec 30 22:17
schestowitz2004: The Future of Linux is Proprietary  http://www.osnews.com/story/5612/Th...Dec 30 22:17
schestowitzDebian goes to the polls < http://lwn.net/Articles/311695/ > Speaking of voting and adults, didn't some flamer call Debian devs "kids" 2 years ago?Dec 30 22:18
schestowitzI can't find the articles.Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_thats why I fight for this..linux to me is about   freedom of use and freedom of obtaining, as not everyone is rich enough to purchase such things, we must look out for those who have less in this world or we dont deserve its 'riches' ..thats my take on it anyway ;)Dec 30 22:19
schestowitzFedora has just gotten a new board too. I posted this to BN this afternoonDec 30 22:19
neighborlee_well I hope they fix the dvd mono issueDec 30 22:19
schestowitzWe need Groklaw back. fast!Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_its gone entirely ???Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_or just restructuringDec 30 22:19
schestowitzI don't know.Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_kDec 30 22:19
schestowitzHopefully not.Dec 30 22:19
neighborlee_dittoDec 30 22:19
schestowitzSoftware can be a commodity around which to build servicesDec 30 22:20
schestowitzI don't know if you noticed, but I'm posting some videos from Brazil among the linksDec 30 22:20
schestowitzThe company, 4Linux, points out that Brazil would be broke if it needed to pay for infringing s/w it uses.Dec 30 22:20
schestowitzYou hear it from their point of videoDec 30 22:21
schestowitzNo phones in some offices, growing beans and chickenDec 30 22:21
schestowitzThey moved to GNU/Linux pretty fastDec 30 22:21
schestowitzMicrosoft is covering this upDec 30 22:21
schestowitzSo the videos bring this issue to lightDec 30 22:21
schestowitzI've also just posted Revolution OS. See front page.Dec 30 22:22
neighborlee_ahhhh ,,very nice about brazil..perfectly makes my point nicelyDec 30 22:22
schestowitzI'm assumng people have time for some films while on vacation and this film is fair to GNU and all...Dec 30 22:22
schestowitzI think this is the part of most relevance: http://www.archive.org/details/e-dv120_sp_...Dec 30 22:23
neighborlee_checkingDec 30 22:23
neighborlee_easier to see why ibm is target LOLDec 30 22:25
neighborlee_oh boyDec 30 22:26
schestowitzYes, they don't fight it.Dec 30 22:31
schestowitzThey sell hardwareDec 30 22:31
schestowitzThere's hardly Free hardwareDec 30 22:31
schestowitzModifying HDDs and CPUs without a factory can be hard :-)Dec 30 22:31
schestowitzWe asked RMS about it in Manchester, IIRC. His answer was that it's a limitDec 30 22:31
neighborlee_:)Dec 30 22:31
schestowitzBut to implement antifeatures at h/w level is hard.Dec 30 22:32
neighborlee_not sure I get what you mean..a limit ?Dec 30 22:32
schestowitzNot sure why I said so, either. "Limitation" is betterDec 30 22:33
neighborlee_ahDec 30 22:41
schestowitzSAAS is another problemDec 30 22:44
neighborlee_great video stuff , thx for reference, Ill finish it a tad later after download doneDec 30 22:45
schestowitzWhich video. Rev OS?Dec 30 22:49
*schestowitz np "The Carpenters - Rainy Days And Mondays"Dec 30 22:50
neighborlee_hanging around...:)Dec 30 22:58
neighborlee_http://www.archive.org/details/e-dv120_sp_... < this oneDec 30 23:00
schestowitzThere are moreDec 30 23:00
schestowitzI can't recall which one says whatDec 30 23:00
neighborlee_schestowitz, I have most of their albums, but their xmas albums are some of my most cherrished..karen voices and xmas are like ONE :)Dec 30 23:00
neighborlee_ahDec 30 23:00
neighborlee_ibm and linux thingDec 30 23:00
schestowitzThat's the thing about video which is misfortunateDec 30 23:01
schestowitzIt's hard to tag or search them for phrasesDec 30 23:01
neighborlee_ah yesDec 30 23:01
schestowitzSo all you have is a reel and some numbersDec 30 23:01
neighborlee_no biggieDec 30 23:01
schestowitzGood luck finding a certain you think of in one hour of footageDec 30 23:01
schestowitzMy sister has their albums.Dec 30 23:01
neighborlee_:)Dec 30 23:02
schestowitzShe has loads of video tapes tooDec 30 23:02
neighborlee_even karen carpenter: solo album ? ;)Dec 30 23:02
neighborlee_dittoDec 30 23:02
neighborlee_I moderate the carpenters list on yahooDec 30 23:02
neighborlee_and started it actuallyDec 30 23:02
schestowitzneighborlee_: I don't know. I can't recall.Dec 30 23:03
schestowitzYahoosoft?Dec 30 23:03
schestowitzFree labour for the Vole...Dec 30 23:03
schestowitzj/k only search might be up for sale.Dec 30 23:03
neighborlee_lolDec 30 23:04
neighborlee_yeahDec 30 23:04
schestowitzYou could have organise FOSS projects and infoDec 30 23:07
schestowitzThose companies like Yahoo look for free labourDec 30 23:07
schestowitzDigg tooDec 30 23:07
schestowitzThey give an 'open' sandbox for people to play with and do mass collaboration/peer production for themDec 30 23:07
schestowitzSome say this is de facto Web 2.0 -- whatever that is.Dec 30 23:08
schestowitzEityher way, that's how sites are built fast. Suckers who do work that some company proftits from.Dec 30 23:08
schestowitzIt's prossible to advance freedom with one's free time as well.Dec 30 23:08
neighborlee_yupDec 30 23:14
neighborlee_sandbox huhDec 30 23:14
schestowitzYup. Old news: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1783Dec 30 23:22
neighborlee_sigh...of course they would test in brazil etc...imagine that ;)Dec 30 23:23
neighborlee_ughDec 30 23:23
schestowitzTo fight win 98? ;-)Dec 30 23:24
neighborlee_the pay as you go thingDec 30 23:25
schestowitzYes, I knowDec 30 23:26
schestowitzBrazil is a problematic country to the VoleDec 30 23:26
neighborlee_quiteDec 30 23:27
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclien...Dec 30 23:27
neighborlee_so have you been wii'ified yet,,sister, anyone in family ? :)Dec 30 23:27
*neighborlee_ is a major wii dudeDec 30 23:27
neighborlee_o_0Dec 30 23:27
neighborlee_stoked that I know have super mario galaxy ;)Dec 30 23:28
neighborlee_know/now o_0Dec 30 23:28
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-101... People are no longer new to the nation of 'open source', so they search for more specific thing. Same with 'Linux'.Dec 30 23:31
schestowitzPeople who use Google Trends for stats either misunderstand or don't want to understand statistic. See for example a graph of 'ubunu' and 'Linux', It's an issue of granularity and brand recognition.Dec 30 23:31
schestowitz*notion; *statisticsDec 30 23:32
neighborlee_sadlyDec 30 23:32
schestowitzThis is probably true but obvious: http://ostatic.com/blog/buyouts-an...Dec 30 23:34
schestowitzhttp://jbcobb.net/?p=205Dec 30 23:34
neighborlee_ah yes it becomes alot more clear now..o f course they didn't want to agree to ODF, when they could go with their own xml/office :)Dec 30 23:34
neighborlee_sighDec 30 23:35
neighborlee_no matter..odf is popular even with united nations ;)Dec 30 23:35
*neighborlee_ is now known as neighborleeDec 30 23:40
*[H]omer has quit ("reset by beer")Dec 30 23:50
schestowitzBreast-Feeding Photo Brouhaha Shows How Impossible It Is To Rate Websites < http://techdirt.com/articles/200... >Dec 30 23:53
schestowitzAnd this patent I wrote about earlier.. 3D Virtual Worlds Patented! Lawsuits Started... < http://techdirt.com/articles/20081230/01... >Dec 30 23:55
neighborleeid have to see the pictures to commentDec 30 23:59
schestowitzCheck out the image on the right: http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2008/12/marke...Dec 30 23:59

Recent Techrights' Posts

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