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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 3rd, 2009 - Part 1

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hicham_how much do they get from Microsoft?Mar 03 00:00
schestowitzThat's how Microsoft is fighting. The TomTom suit confirms that they attack now... defeat is near.Mar 03 00:00
schestowitzThey tried using SCO with the copyerights caseMar 03 00:00
hicham_novell should be banned from linuxMar 03 00:00
BalrogTomTom should not back down. Those patents are so laughableMar 03 00:00
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Balrogdo any of you know of an alternative to this?Mar 03 00:01
Balroghttp://www.faronics.com/html/de...Mar 03 00:01
hicham_we should ask Linus to ban NovellMar 03 00:01
schestowitzNow they go softer... to patents.... beyond that they are over.. unless they make up new laws and corrupt/bamboozle politicians to accept themMar 03 00:01
Balrogsomeone I know requires such software and it's only for SUSE :(Mar 03 00:01
schestowitzhicham_: he's carefulMar 03 00:01
schestowitzLinus' statement is something I've watched for over 2 yearsMar 03 00:01
hicham_schestowitz : and what did he say?Mar 03 00:02
schestowitzHe does reply to my mails but he's no fan of isolating NovellMar 03 00:02
schestowitzAlso, he works with people like Greg K-H, whose job is at risk nowMar 03 00:02
Balrogwell Novell is playing by the rules (GPL-2) so far, right?Mar 03 00:02
schestowitzNovell is firing SUSE devs en masse and Greg is working on drivers for everyone, not just Novell... so he's 'luxury' to them.Mar 03 00:02
schestowitzhicham_: I need to find an interviewMar 03 00:03
Balrogthese layoffs are very bad...devs are the last people that should be laid offMar 03 00:03
schestowitzHe said something about "irrational hatred"Mar 03 00:03
schestowitzI don't hare NovellMar 03 00:03
MrMidCouple of links to keep track on prices tomorrow http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fd...Mar 03 00:03
schestowitzHe just doesn't understand how much of a risk they areMar 03 00:03
hicham_it is not hatredMar 03 00:03
schestowitzHe does understand that sw patents are a huge issueMar 03 00:03
hicham_as you said, it is riskMar 03 00:03
schestowitzhe told ZDNet in a LinxuWorld/AU interview last yearMar 03 00:03
schestowitzI have the videoMar 03 00:03
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hicham_Novell is just opening Linux gates to MicrosoftMar 03 00:04
hicham_Linux doesn't need any Microsoft infected softwareMar 03 00:04
schestowitzBTW, MrMid is a friend from 'Real Life'. He too understands what was happening and doesn't buy this whole "stimulus" BS and "it'll be better soon"Mar 03 00:04
schestowitzhicham_: Novell needs the moneyMar 03 00:05
schestowitzI think it almost went bankrupt in 2006Mar 03 00:05
schestowitzIt was close to being delisted.Mar 03 00:05
BalrogWhy did Novell buy SUSE anyway?Mar 03 00:05
schestowitzIBMMar 03 00:06
schestowitzAnd lack of directionMar 03 00:06
schestowitzThey still buy companies without real purposeMar 03 00:06
schestowitzI've covered all those aqcuisitions in BN over the yearsMar 03 00:06
schestowitzThey make little sense. It's like a drowning man clinging onto 5 y-o kidsMar 03 00:07
Balrognew groklaw story, about SCOMar 03 00:07
Balroghttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...Mar 03 00:07
schestowitz"Save me.. save me... look, investors, I made moves"Mar 03 00:07
schestowitzMessman got sacked or pressured out for being too statisMar 03 00:07
schestowitz*staticMar 03 00:07
schestowitzAfter he bought SuSE he couldn't do muchMar 03 00:07
Balrogread itMar 03 00:08
schestowitzThen came IBM's Hovsepian's (was COO beforehand) and worked out change... talked to MicrosoftMar 03 00:08
BalroghehMar 03 00:08
schestowitzNovell came TO MicrosoftMar 03 00:08
schestowitzThey made quite a dealMar 03 00:08
schestowitzMicrosoft pays ~$300m (lifeline),plus another $100m laterMar 03 00:08
schestowitzBut not anymoreMar 03 00:08
Balrogms was paying novell? for what?Mar 03 00:09
schestowitzTo ruin LinuxMar 03 00:09
schestowitzOK, I joke hereMar 03 00:09
schestowitzThey paid Novell to promote OOXMlMar 03 00:09
schestowitzTo sign a patent deal..Mar 03 00:10
schestowitzTo ruin Red Hat (they failed at that...)Mar 03 00:10
schestowitzAnd so on.Mar 03 00:10
BalroghehMar 03 00:10
Balrogred hat is going strongMar 03 00:10
schestowitzIt seems soMar 03 00:10
Balrogooxml is a messMar 03 00:10
schestowitzFor archival, yes.Mar 03 00:10
schestowitzMicrosoft is aggressive about speading itMar 03 00:11
schestowitzAnd harming ODF... bastardising itMar 03 00:11
schestowitzMS-ODF vs ODFMar 03 00:11
schestowitzMicrosoft: "MS-ODF is much better... more features"Mar 03 00:11
schestowitzNovell: "use Go-OO, not OpenOffice.org"Mar 03 00:11
Balrogseems like Nintendo's engineering isn't great either: http://hackmii.com/2009/02/why-the-wii-wi...Mar 03 00:11
Balrogthough that's OTMar 03 00:12
schestowitzMicrosoft: "use .NET"Mar 03 00:12
BalrogOOo3 is greatMar 03 00:12
schestowitzSUSE: "Mono.NET... sehr gute!"Mar 03 00:12
schestowitzSUSE was a European projectMar 03 00:12
schestowitzNow run by Mono slackers.Mar 03 00:12
Balrogyeah. :(Mar 03 00:13
schestowitzMiguel de Icaza: 'We had some painful experiences with C and C++, and when Microsoft came out with .NET, we said, "Yes! That is what we want."'Mar 03 00:13
Balrogheh. what about Qt .... but that only recently became LGPLMar 03 00:14
schestowitzYes, but he said it a long time agoMar 03 00:16
schestowitzThat freedom/openness API/tollkit debate is a dead horse. not worth kicking.Mar 03 00:16
BalroghehMar 03 00:17
schestowitzToo many platforms, not enough writers: http://weblog.infoworld.com/editor/arch...Mar 03 00:19
schestowitzNow supporting a company that attacks its competitors using intellectual monopolies on FAT: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29462888/ Did Infobright get a visit from the lackeys of Microsoft like Walli?Mar 03 00:21
hicham_the .Net is just a J2EE stealthMar 03 00:23
hicham_Microsoft was fearing that its developer will go to J2EEMar 03 00:23
hicham_that is why they developed .Net during three yearsMar 03 00:24
hicham_I think from 1999 to 2002Mar 03 00:24
BalrogDevelopers are still going to JavaMar 03 00:24
BalrogJava is much more widespread than .NETMar 03 00:24
hicham_and spend on it about $3mMar 03 00:24
hicham_I know thatMar 03 00:24
hicham_but Microsoft want to invade the webMar 03 00:25
hicham_because that it the futureMar 03 00:25
hicham_since its big failure with windows VistaMar 03 00:25
hicham_Microsoft is trying to invade other marketsMar 03 00:26
Balrogwell Silverlight isn't accepted too wellMar 03 00:26
hicham_silverlight isnt accepted at allMar 03 00:26
Balrogand as closed as the iphone may be, its lack of plugins helps (discourage silverlight use)Mar 03 00:26
Balrogit's probably too slow to run silverlight anywayMar 03 00:26
hicham_first reason is : devs are used to action scriptMar 03 00:27
Balrogwhich the iphone and similar devices don't support either.Mar 03 00:27
hicham_flash in anywhereMar 03 00:27
hicham_it is not a big problem for adobeMar 03 00:27
hicham_they can do thatMar 03 00:27
hicham_the swf format is very popularMar 03 00:28
hicham_there is even an open source implementation for it : gnashMar 03 00:28
Balrogit sure is. but it's not lasting foreverMar 03 00:28
schestowitzMothers Against Drunk Driving Picks Orange Leap for Optimizing Constituent Management, Marketing and Fundraising < http://www.businesswire.com/portal/... >. Mar 03 00:28
Balrogit takes lots of processing power and ramMar 03 00:28
schestowitzhttp://www.bermanexposed.org/ "Richard Berman has been a regular front man for business and industry in campaigns against consumer safety and environmental groups. Through his public affairs firm, Berman and Company, Berman has fought unions, Mothers Against Drunk Driving"Mar 03 00:28
schestowitzhicham_: true. Microsoft admits Silver Lie is failingMar 03 00:29
schestowitzPoor penetration,Mar 03 00:29
schestowitzAnd they also bribe (incentivise) companies to adopt itMar 03 00:30
schestowitzI.e. they lose money from having it 'adopted'Mar 03 00:30
schestowitzNovell helps MS thoughMar 03 00:30
schestowitzit promotes Silver Lie.Mar 03 00:30
BalrogAll the lecture video-capture 'solutions' I've seen use it. D:Mar 03 00:31
hicham_good news : Dailymotion uses the ogg format in its olpc sectionMar 03 00:31
hicham_seems very promisingMar 03 00:31
hicham_what do u think of that?Mar 03 00:31
Balroggood, but browser support isn't where it should beMar 03 00:33
hicham_did u test it?Mar 03 00:33
Balrognot theirs, but some other oggMar 03 00:33
Balrogwith the XiphQT pluginsMar 03 00:33
hicham_firefox 3.1 has built-in support for oggMar 03 00:34
hicham_did u test it?Mar 03 00:34
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Balrogseems to workMar 03 00:44
hicham_u just tested it now?Mar 03 00:44
Balrogyeah ... in firefoxMar 03 00:44
BalrogI used it before but not with firefoxMar 03 00:45
tessier_http://blogs.computerworld.com/...Mar 03 00:49
tessier_NiceMar 03 00:49
Balrogso do any of you know of an alternative to this product?Mar 03 00:49
Balroghttp://www.faronics.com/html/DF...Mar 03 00:49
Balrogit reverts changes to the hard disk after rebootMar 03 00:50
BalrogSomeone I know wants to use it and it only works with SUSEMar 03 00:50
Balrog(and an outdated version of suse)Mar 03 00:50
schestowitztessier: Microsoft must reduce pricesMar 03 00:51
schestowitzNow they have a new jokes about some 'cheaper' server to "compete with Linux". So they want to sell a crippled Widnows Server to compete with something that\s better than Windows ServerMar 03 00:51
schestowitzOn sub-notebooks they impose a 3-processes limit and think it can compete?Mar 03 00:51
Balrogthere's no way people will work with such a limitMar 03 00:52
Balrogpeople will *hate it*Mar 03 00:52
schestowitzThey've lost the ability to attract developers in an age of limited budgets, thus you have people flocking to Linux skills and employers seeking themMar 03 00:52
schestowitzBalrog: yes, Microsoft hopes they'll upgrade to premium WindowsMar 03 00:52
schestowitzHeck, they'll just upgrade to Linux, which is cheaperMar 03 00:52
schestowitzMicrosoft's business decisions are a lost cause nowMar 03 00:53
schestowitzThus they sue TomTom, trying miserably to increase the cost of LinuxMar 03 00:53
schestowitzMy cousin just put up this video... http://www.youtube.com/watch...Mar 03 00:56
schestowitzIt's strange how quickly they grow.Mar 03 00:56
schestowitzGoogle is 73% the worth  of Microsoft now? Wow.Mar 03 01:16
hicham_Google is good with Open SourceMar 03 01:23
hicham_but its browser isnt open sourceMar 03 01:23
schestowitzAGPL?Mar 03 01:23
schestowitzNeither is androidMar 03 01:23
hicham_it is based on ChromiumMar 03 01:24
schestowitzBetter something than nothingMar 03 01:24
schestowitzGoogle hardly /attcks/ freedom,unlike MicrosoftMar 03 01:24
hicham_yesMar 03 01:24
schestowitzIt plays safe, a little bit like IBMMar 03 01:24
hicham_i do agree on thatMar 03 01:24
hicham_but the private data that they collect?Mar 03 01:24
hicham_and the suspicious EULA with Chrome?Mar 03 01:25
schestowitzPrivacy and freedom I don't consider to be the same thingMar 03 01:25
schestowitzIf they leak your data out, that becomes an issueMar 03 01:25
schestowitzBut you don't /have/ to use their s/w... unless peers send you a Google Docs URL or something.Mar 03 01:26
hicham_the google offline apps will be supported by firefoxMar 03 01:26
hicham_i think in 3.2Mar 03 01:27
schestowitzIf there comes a time when people use Google not because it's very good but because they must (lock-in of some sorts), then it become insidious. Being a monopoly does not necessarily mean being a monopolist (or monopoly abuser). See Cisco..Mar 03 01:27
hicham_by the way, which OS do u useMar 03 01:27
hicham_?Mar 03 01:27
schestowitzhttp://www.computeruser.com/articles/1...Mar 03 01:27
schestowitzI use Mandriva 2008.1 on my main machine. It's fantastic.Mar 03 01:28
hicham_monopoly is always a problemMar 03 01:28
hicham_I haven't had a successful experience with itMar 03 01:28
schestowitzIncompatible h/w?Mar 03 01:28
hicham_though Mandrake used to be good for me for some timeMar 03 01:28
hicham_yesMar 03 01:28
schestowitzI got a machine that took everything I threw at it without a hitchMar 03 01:29
hicham_the main reason is my connection$Mar 03 01:29
schestowitzI never really had any h/w issues with Linux.Mar 03 01:29
schestowitzSome people do... I never wrestled with Wi-Fi though... I also think it may be cancerous, but that's another topciMar 03 01:29
hicham_WiFi is almosted resolved with ndiswrapperMar 03 01:29
hicham_i have an adsl usb connectionMar 03 01:30
hicham_i struggled to get it working on linux for six monthsMar 03 01:30
hicham_i went from mandakeMar 03 01:30
hicham_to fedoraMar 03 01:30
hicham_to mandrivaMar 03 01:30
hicham_and finally i landed on ubuntuMar 03 01:30
schestowitzI want more answers about radiation issues one day. Don't believe what they tell you. I've seen enough lies ("WMOD in Iraq", "I didn't have sex with that woman", etc.). There's a good talk from LEssig about itMar 03 01:31
hicham_in which i made it work on a monthMar 03 01:31
hicham_radiations exists in iraqMar 03 01:31
schestowitzhttp://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netro...Mar 03 01:31
hicham_i recently seen a video about a strange sickness that strikes young peopleMar 03 01:31
schestowitzWorth a watch... very engaging.Mar 03 01:31
schestowitzI use Ubuntu on 3 machines of mineMar 03 01:32
schestowitzAlso on my second partition of my main PC.Mar 03 01:32
Balroghicham_: the only issues I had were (a) trying to use legacy nvidia blobs on a current kernel and (b) helping that person with SUSE (his hardware was too new for the kernel)Mar 03 01:32
hicham_I dont think that there is a problem with Nvidia chipsetMar 03 01:32
hicham_it is very well supportedMar 03 01:32
Balrogno, it's more of nvidia being slow to update the legacy driverMar 03 01:33
Balrogeven so, it's still a blobMar 03 01:33
hicham_what about the open source one?Mar 03 01:33
Balrog(the open-source nv driver sucks badly and is obfuscated)Mar 03 01:33
hicham_okMar 03 01:33
Balrogstuff doesn't render right, and everything is slowMar 03 01:33
hicham_right now i use the open source radeon oneMar 03 01:34
Balroga core2quad system feels like a 400MHz system loaded downMar 03 01:34
hicham_so i dont know about nvidiaMar 03 01:34
hicham_i just hear that it offer better for linux than atiMar 03 01:34
Balrogthe blob is very good (performance-wise)Mar 03 01:34
Balrogthough I hear they re-implement half of xorgMar 03 01:34
Balrogbut yes, it's colsedMar 03 01:36
BalrogclosedMar 03 01:36
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hicham1as i said the adsl usb modem was badly supportedMar 03 01:38
hicham1now things changedMar 03 01:38
Balrogwhy use usb for adsl anyway?Mar 03 01:39
Balrogethernet is so much easier to supportMar 03 01:39
hicham1yes i knowMar 03 01:39
hicham1but it is the cheapestMar 03 01:39
Balrog:(Mar 03 01:39
hicham1yesMar 03 01:39
hicham1and YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT when you subscribe with our ISPMar 03 01:40
Balrogyou can't buy a different one??Mar 03 01:40
Balrogwhat ISP is this?Mar 03 01:40
hicham1Maroc TelecomMar 03 01:40
Balrog(see, I want something I can hook up to a router)Mar 03 01:40
hicham1in MoroccoMar 03 01:40
Balrogack.Mar 03 01:41
BalrogsucksMar 03 01:41
hicham1you have to sell the modemMar 03 01:41
hicham1and then buy a new routerMar 03 01:41
hicham1the router is better anywayMar 03 01:41
hicham1but they dont offer itMar 03 01:41
Balrogheh obviouslyMar 03 01:41
hicham1i dont know either why they still force people to take the usb modemMar 03 01:42
hicham1i prefer ethernet tooMar 03 01:42
Balrogdo they charge for it?Mar 03 01:42
hicham1yesMar 03 01:42
hicham1of courseMar 03 01:42
BalrogD:Mar 03 01:42
hicham1it is more than a router's priceMar 03 01:42
Balroghere they throw in a ethernet/usb modem in the 25 USD 'setup fee'Mar 03 01:42
Balrogwhich is waived in many instancesMar 03 01:43
*schestowitz uses nvidia binary blobs (included in Mandriva with automatic updates). very pleased with it, except it's binary-onlyMar 03 01:43
hicham1actually they charge $22 if you subscribe for one yearMar 03 01:43
Balrognot that bad, actuallyMar 03 01:43
Balrogbut still too muchMar 03 01:44
hicham1yesMar 03 01:44
hicham1$22 for a usb modemMar 03 01:44
hicham1while a modem router is less than $20Mar 03 01:44
Balrogyeah. :(Mar 03 01:44
hicham1they are promoting sagem in MoroccoMar 03 01:44
hicham1i dont understand why they developed this modem at firstMar 03 01:45
hicham1ethernet over usb!Mar 03 01:45
hicham1create logical interfaces and all the fuss just to use the usb interfaceMar 03 01:46
hicham1sometimes u cant understand technologyMar 03 01:46
hicham1it is far beyond understandingMar 03 01:46
hicham1but anyway people made this modem work under linuxMar 03 01:46
hicham1and it is a real victoryMar 03 01:47
hicham1the core driver as i said is included in the kernelMar 03 01:47
hicham1u just have to provide the firmwareMar 03 01:47
hicham1what is ur overall comparison of java vs .net?Mar 03 01:48
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hicham1i see that there is no one in hereMar 03 01:49
schestowitzJava is advancedMar 03 01:49
schestowitzAnd matureMar 03 01:49
schestowitzMarket around it too.. lots of itMar 03 01:50
Balrogand java is FOSSMar 03 01:50
schestowitzIt's GPLedMar 03 01:50
Balrog.NET isn'tMar 03 01:50
schestowitzBeat me to itMar 03 01:50
hicham1what about the performanceMar 03 01:50
Balrogperformance is greatMar 03 01:50
Balrogsome say it's as good as native codeMar 03 01:50
schestowitzI'm not sure it matters muchMar 03 01:50
Balrogfor certain applicationMar 03 01:50
schestowitzThe bottlenecks change as computers become strongerMar 03 01:50
Balrog(the HotSpot compiler optimizes code that runs repeatedly)Mar 03 01:50
BalrogJIT-compiler that isMar 03 01:50
schestowitzSo garbage collection on a 486 ain't the same as on a quad coreMar 03 01:51
schestowitzIt becomes a negligible factorMar 03 01:51
schestowitzLikewise with computers that nowadays come with 2GB of RAMMar 03 01:51
Balrog4GB...Mar 03 01:51
hicham1it is always a problemMar 03 01:51
schestowitzBalrog: Vista can't even use itMar 03 01:51
Balrogheh yeahMar 03 01:51
schestowitzThough it needs more than 2GB in many casesMar 03 01:52
Balrogeven vista 64-bit edition can't use it???Mar 03 01:52
schestowitzHitting the 64-bit barrierMar 03 01:52
hicham1java garbage collector it is not as efficient as python's oneMar 03 01:52
schestowitzOracle uses Linux mostly.Mar 03 01:52
schestowitzIt needs s*loads of memory sometimesMar 03 01:52
schestowitz32GBMar 03 01:52
hicham1yes and javaMar 03 01:52
hicham1Oracle uses Java a lotMar 03 01:52
schestowitzSleepycat?Mar 03 01:52
hicham1and it has an opensource divisionMar 03 01:53
schestowitzPRMar 03 01:53
hicham1its express edition is open source, noMar 03 01:53
hicham1?Mar 03 01:53
schestowitzAt least they make better fs (btrfs) for us all.Mar 03 01:53
schestowitzhicham1: Oracle??Mar 03 01:53
hicham1am I wrong?Mar 03 01:53
schestowitzJust gratisMar 03 01:53
hicham1I am not sureMar 03 01:54
hicham1yes, it is gratisMar 03 01:54
schestowitzLockin trickMar 03 01:54
hicham1that is sureMar 03 01:54
schestowitzStart small for freeMar 03 01:54
schestowitzBe locked in, start paying more as you scale up..Mar 03 01:54
schestowitzI think it's mostly limit on processors...Mar 03 01:54
hicham1they were offering an installer just for RHELMar 03 01:54
schestowitzNot libre/visibility of codeMar 03 01:54
schestowitzhicham1: Oracle and Novell never got in contactMar 03 01:55
hicham1Java is always visibleMar 03 01:55
schestowitzAlmost nevrMar 03 01:55
schestowitzUnlike SAP..Mar 03 01:55
schestowitzOracle keeps far from Microsoft and its clique.Mar 03 01:55
schestowitzEllison can't stand Microsoft.Mar 03 01:55
schestowitzHe's jealous of themMar 03 01:55
schestowitzLesser successful of the two evils.Mar 03 01:55
Balrogwhat's lockin?Mar 03 01:56
schestowitzEllison and Paul Allen still compete over the length of their yacht as though these are penisesMar 03 01:56
hicham1Oracle want to dominate the whole market, whether it is windows, linux, mac os, ...Mar 03 01:56
schestowitzThey tailor them specifically to break records.Mar 03 01:56
schestowitzOracle is a ruthless machine to make money for investorsMar 03 01:57
hicham1that is what money doMar 03 01:57
BalrogI meant what's using lockin right nowMar 03 01:57
schestowitzWhich you know what they say...Mar 03 01:57
hicham1OracleMar 03 01:57
schestowitzEllison: "it's capitalism, I'm competing"Mar 03 01:57
hicham1is trying to lock the marketMar 03 01:57
hicham1by trapping linux usersMar 03 01:57
schestowitzTough love.,.. love for them, tough for everyone else.Mar 03 01:57
schestowitzI think Ellison said this when he ripped off RHAT.Mar 03 01:58
hicham1but mysql and postgresql are rude competitorsMar 03 01:58
hicham1mysql is overwhelming the webMar 03 01:59
hicham1and they can't do anything about itMar 03 01:59
hicham1open source is comingMar 03 02:00
hicham1and oracle is having great time trying to port existing Relational Databases to OO DatabasesMar 03 02:00
hicham1it is a hard taskMar 03 02:01
hicham1what they have till now is just ...Mar 03 02:01
hicham1how do i sayMar 03 02:01
hicham1extending sqlMar 03 02:01
hicham1they will stay with the relational modelMar 03 02:01
balzacI want Larry Elisson's yachtMar 03 02:02
balzache is a doucheMar 03 02:02
tessier_hicham1: I'm not sure there is much of a difference between OO and relational.Mar 03 02:02
hicham1tessier_ : are you sure?Mar 03 02:03
hicham1have you worked with ObjectStore?Mar 03 02:03
tessier_Didn't I just say "I'm not sure" ?Mar 03 02:03
hicham1ah okMar 03 02:04
tessier_I've spent time with zodb. It was cool. I have also spent time with MySQL. That was interesting also. Now I'm working with Django and it's ORM talking to MySQL. Now they don't seem as different as I had thought. Soon I want to play with couchdb. Something altogether different although probably more object-like.Mar 03 02:04
schestowitzbalzac: the yacht is too large. Not much use in thaty.Mar 03 02:04
hicham1ObjectStore is 100% OOMar 03 02:04
hicham1it is completely written in  JavaMar 03 02:05
tessier_I've read about ObjectStore also. It has been around for a long time IIRC.Mar 03 02:05
balzacWell, if I had enough money...Mar 03 02:05
tessier_It sounds cool also. But I don't think it's FOSS>Mar 03 02:06
tessier_And I'm not a big fan of Java.Mar 03 02:06
hicham1no, it is not FOSSMar 03 02:06
hicham1but the way they conceived things is really neatMar 03 02:06
tessier_How is it fundamentally different from MySQL or zodb?Mar 03 02:06
hicham1I havent worked with zodbMar 03 02:07
tessier_zodb is an OO database also.Mar 03 02:07
hicham1but for MySql, it is a lot differentMar 03 02:07
tessier_It's fun and easy to use. Zope uses it.Mar 03 02:07
hicham1everything is object in object storeMar 03 02:07
tessier_Sounds like zope so far.Mar 03 02:07
hicham1you store everything as objectMar 03 02:07
tessier_YepMar 03 02:08
hicham1and you dont interact with a serverMar 03 02:08
tessier_RightMar 03 02:08
hicham1the application do all the stuffMar 03 02:08
tessier_Still sounds like zodbMar 03 02:08
hicham1i will look for zodbMar 03 02:08
tessier_And if you use an ORM with a relational db it works the same.Mar 03 02:08
hicham1but ObjectStore is a new way in managing databasesMar 03 02:08
tessier_How so?Mar 03 02:09
hicham1by suppressing the need for a serverMar 03 02:09
hicham1since they rely on java virtual machine for securityMar 03 02:09
hicham1and to be sincere with you, i wasnt a big fan of javaMar 03 02:10
hicham1but with the buffer overflow problem that is inherent to c/c++, i started to think that java will be a mustMar 03 02:10
hicham1but who knows, there is also other languagesMar 03 02:11
hicham1like pythonMar 03 02:11
hicham1it is marvellousMar 03 02:11
hicham1but it hasn't the marketing campaign that java hasMar 03 02:11
hicham1Plus the JDK isnt open sourceMar 03 02:12
hicham1it is proprietaryMar 03 02:13
tessier_Right, python is currently my preferred language.Mar 03 02:13
hicham1do you work a lot with Python?Mar 03 02:14
tessier_I don't care about marketing.Mar 03 02:14
tessier_YesMar 03 02:14
hicham1a lot of Software Experts are seeing Python as the future of programming languagesMar 03 02:14
hicham1since java has many flawsMar 03 02:14
hicham1in Linux, Python is very usedMar 03 02:15
tessier_So far I'm pretty happy with it. I'm still a fairly mediocre python programmer though. But I'm getting better. Haven't been doing it seriously for very long.Mar 03 02:15
hicham1what do you use at work?Mar 03 02:15
tessier_Perl and Python. Migrating towards Python.Mar 03 02:16
hicham1Python is much more compact than PerlMar 03 02:16
hicham1perl is very vastMar 03 02:16
tessier_Indeed. That's one reason why I like it better.Mar 03 02:16
hicham1and the python's code is much more clearerMar 03 02:17
hicham1and shorterMar 03 02:17
tessier_YepMar 03 02:17
tessier_http://isperldeadyet.comMar 03 02:17
hicham1very cool oneMar 03 02:19
hicham1do u use linux at work a lot?Mar 03 02:19
tessier_I use only Linux at work.Mar 03 02:20
tessier_I have used Linux for 15 years.Mar 03 02:20
tessier_Linux is all I have ever done for work.Mar 03 02:20
hicham1wowMar 03 02:20
hicham1must be a geek in linuxMar 03 02:20
hicham1what distro do u use?Mar 03 02:20
tessier_http://tracyreed.org/the-resum...Mar 03 02:21
tessier_I use Fedora on desktop and CentOS on my servers.Mar 03 02:21
hicham1greatMar 03 02:21
hicham1why do u think of CentOS ethically?Mar 03 02:21
schestowitzpython makes the IRC logsMar 03 02:22
hicham1I have people say that CentOS is literally RHEL copiedMar 03 02:22
hicham1schestowitz : welcome backMar 03 02:22
schestowitzI'm preparing links for BNMar 03 02:22
tessier_hicham1: It is RHEL literally copied. RHEL is GPL and other FOSS licenses. Copying is encouraged. It's why people use FOSS licenses.Mar 03 02:22
tessier_I have used RHEL before also.Mar 03 02:23
tessier_Sometimes it is the most appropriate solution for servers.Mar 03 02:23
tessier_I like how RedHat has stayed pretty true to FOSSMar 03 02:23
tessier_I don't mind sending them some money for supportMar 03 02:23
schestowitzFedora is on a good track. Lots of Red Hat news today..Mar 03 02:23
hicham1why people will then buy RHEL?Mar 03 02:24
hicham1for technical support?Mar 03 02:24
tessier_RH is profitable too and has been for years.Mar 03 02:24
tessier_Yes. Support.Mar 03 02:24
schestowitzWindows goes off path while Fedora gets it back together after F8/9 which had some issuesMar 03 02:24
tessier_Yeah, 8/9 were a bit rough. 10 is working great.Mar 03 02:24
schestowitzOracle failed to hurt Rd hatMar 03 02:24
schestowitzIt's in the news todayMar 03 02:24
tessier_I can't wait until my LTSP Term 1520 shows up. Then I'll have a decent desktop again.Mar 03 02:24
schestowitzLots about Oracle's LinuxMar 03 02:24
schestowitzMicrosoft and Novell failed alsoMar 03 02:25
hicham1RedHat is a great companyMar 03 02:25
schestowitzRed Hat carries on growingMar 03 02:25
schestowitzMS/Novell was intended to break Red hatMar 03 02:25
schestowitzActually, one of their execs mailed me some days agoMar 03 02:25
hicham1what did he say?Mar 03 02:25
schestowitzNothing of significanceMar 03 02:26
schestowitzBut IBMers too were keeping an eye when I wrote about OOXMLMar 03 02:26
schestowitzI've nothing to do with them.Mar 03 02:26
hicham1what do u think of Canonical, the official company of Ubuntu?Mar 03 02:28
schestowitzI'm not a fanMar 03 02:31
schestowitzSome people in Digg (well, 1 of them actually) thinks I'm shilling for them or somethingMar 03 02:32
schestowitzHe's an anti-Ubuntu person attacking anyone who adds something favourable about them. it's amusingMar 03 02:32
schestowitzUbuntu gets no love from long-time users...Mar 03 02:32
*tessier_ is ambivalent on UbuntuMar 03 02:34
hicham1schestowitz : what do use mean by that ?Mar 03 02:35
schestowitzMany people resent UbuntuMar 03 02:36
hicham1for what?Mar 03 02:36
schestowitzThey hate it for its popularity, rationalised by lack of contribution to kernel space.Mar 03 02:36
hicham1they contribute to kernelMar 03 02:36
schestowitzSome have an anything-but-ubuntu policyMar 03 02:36
schestowitzhicham1: I know, but perceptiually they don'tMar 03 02:37
schestowitzNovell Greg K-H did the gig on them half a year agoMar 03 02:37
hicham1they have some employees who work just on the kernelMar 03 02:37
hicham1its forums are very activeMar 03 02:37
hicham1i havent seen such active forums in linuxMar 03 02:38
hicham1beforeMar 03 02:38
hicham1no distro did get that much attentionMar 03 02:38
hicham1i agree that the marketing campaign was very goodMar 03 02:38
hicham1how is novell going with canonical?Mar 03 02:39
schestowitzIt's weirdMar 03 02:39
schestowitzSUSE could be where Ubuntu is today on the desktopMar 03 02:40
schestowitzThey blew itMar 03 02:40
hicham1SUSE and its policy is drifting people awayMar 03 02:42
schestowitzI think so..Mar 03 02:46
hicham1but Canonical is very cleverMar 03 02:47
hicham1Mark Shuttleworth is an experienced ex debian developerMar 03 02:47
hicham1so he knows how to manage a distributionMar 03 02:47
hicham1plus his great sense for businessMar 03 02:47
hicham1I will add up sthg to that, this guy is already richMar 03 02:49
schestowitzI hope so.Mar 03 02:52
schestowitzHe does allow for many to fork or derive from Ubuntu, so there's no loss really.Mar 03 02:52
hicham1Mandriva has done a really bad thingMar 03 02:53
hicham1its Founder Gael Duval get laid offMar 03 02:53
hicham1which is really not goodMar 03 02:53
hicham1the people there are just ingratefulMar 03 02:54
hicham1everybody is sleeping in hereMar 03 02:58
schestowitzYes, I knowMar 03 02:59
schestowitzI write to him sometimesMar 03 02:59
schestowitzMandriva's CEO got cannedMar 03 02:59
schestowitzI think...Mar 03 02:59
schestowitzhicham1: not sleeping yet. I'll do the links first, before they ageMar 03 02:59
hicham1okMar 03 03:00
hicham1what do u think about that?Mar 03 03:00
schestowitzMandriva?Mar 03 03:01
schestowitzIn general, it's a stunning beginning of the week for Linux.Mar 03 03:01
schestowitzThe economy is a PITA though.Mar 03 03:01
schestowitzCousin writes: 'Based on what he sees in current events, I cannot disagree with what Gerald Celente’s view of the future. A war economy bailed the U.S out of recession in the 1940’s but if we were to be more involved in military action it would surely impoverish the nation.'Mar 03 03:01


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