To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| Eruaran | One of the commenters is Will Stephenson who says: | Mar 22 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Eruaran | I've been working with Eric to package the Qyoto bindings in the KDE 4.2 repository from the openSUSE Build Service. You can find them here: http://download.opensuse.org/repos... | Mar 22 00:00 |
| Eruaran | Same crowd | Mar 22 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Mar 22 00:01 |
| schestowitz | But wait | Mar 22 00:02 |
| schestowitz | is there any URL that directly shows Novell's hand in this (KDE-Mono) | Mar 22 00:02 |
| Eruaran | I doubt there would be | Mar 22 00:03 |
| Eruaran | But their purpose seems to be to disrupt established projects | Mar 22 00:03 |
| Eruaran | I mean why Synapse ? | Mar 22 00:03 |
| Eruaran | Yet another instant messenger ? | Mar 22 00:03 |
| Eruaran | And they're aiming at KDE4 | Mar 22 00:04 |
| Eruaran | Where you'll find a popular KDE project called... Kopete | Mar 22 00:04 |
| Eruaran | Instead of contributing to already existing projects, these assholes only and ALWAYS do another project entirely that is dependant on Mono | Mar 22 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Really? | Mar 22 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Mono? | Mar 22 00:07 |
| schestowitz | In KDE, as substitute? | Mar 22 00:07 |
| Eruaran | In Miguel De Icaza's own words, "built with Qt/Qyoto/Mono" | Mar 22 00:07 |
| Eruaran | This makes me so angry | Mar 22 00:08 |
| Eruaran | fucking piece of pond scum | Mar 22 00:08 |
| MinceR | nah, none of the things that live in a pond are nearly as nasty | Mar 22 00:08 |
| Eruaran | my apologies to the pond | Mar 22 00:09 |
| Eruaran | These scumbags do not contribute to projects, they create new projects that depend on Mono | Mar 22 00:09 |
| Eruaran | Don't think its unrelated | Mar 22 00:12 |
| Eruaran | This guy goes out for dinner with Miguel | Mar 22 00:12 |
| Eruaran | Why not contribute to Koptete, which most KDE users use ? | Mar 22 00:13 |
| Eruaran | Why create a whole other application ? | Mar 22 00:13 |
| Eruaran | And why Mono ? | Mar 22 00:14 |
| Eruaran | You can bet anything that Miguel thinks is "a beautiful application" is as insidious as the friends he likes to hang out with in Redmond. | Mar 22 00:15 |
| Balrog | I don't think the KDE people will support this... | Mar 22 00:19 |
| Balrog | or will they .... | Mar 22 00:20 |
| schestowitz | They do the same via OpenSUSE | Mar 22 00:21 |
| schestowitz | Pollute | Mar 22 00:21 |
| schestowitz | They take pride in Mono and Moonlight | Mar 22 00:21 |
| schestowitz | it's Novell's secret sauce | Mar 22 00:21 |
| Balrog | who will support this if people have problems......? | Mar 22 00:21 |
| Balrog | KDE or Mono? | Mar 22 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Protection, makes Microsoft happy (Novell need to suck up to them for coupons)... | Mar 22 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: I don't know. | Mar 22 00:22 |
| Balrog | neither do I... | Mar 22 00:22 |
| Balrog | it should be obvious what MS is trying to do .... | Mar 22 00:23 |
| Eruaran | I think Will Stephenson still works for Novell ? | Mar 22 00:25 |
| Eruaran | Confirmed. | Mar 22 00:29 |
| Eruaran | Captcha is such crap | Mar 22 00:31 |
| Eruaran | Supposed to confirm you're human | Mar 22 00:32 |
| Eruaran | And humans cant read the crap is displays | Mar 22 00:32 |
| Eruaran | that took about 5 tries... | Mar 22 00:34 |
| Balrog | what about reCaptcha and other open stuff? | Mar 22 00:45 |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: been looking ACMA has had all the power for what they are doing for a long time. ACMA has not fired any staff even that other goverment departmarts have. So I would think its a pure money grab caused by the downturn. | Mar 22 00:58 |
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| _Hicham_1 | hi all | Mar 22 01:05 |
| PetoKraus | hello | Mar 22 01:06 |
| _Hicham_1 | how r u doing? | Mar 22 01:07 |
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| PetoKraus | partially drunk, so pretty well | Mar 22 01:08 |
| PetoKraus | the term is finishing, go figure | Mar 22 01:08 |
| PetoKraus | how about you? | Mar 22 01:09 |
| mib_blr46h | f:::: microsoft they are like thief's | Mar 22 01:10 |
| _Hicham_1 | im fine, not drunk | Mar 22 01:10 |
| _Hicham_1 | but i think i should | Mar 22 01:10 |
| _Hicham_1 | Roy is not here? | Mar 22 01:10 |
| _Hicham_1 | PetoKraus : u are very drunk | Mar 22 01:13 |
| _Hicham_1 | :D | Mar 22 01:13 |
| PetoKraus | _Hicham_1: not really. | Mar 22 01:14 |
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| PetoKraus | i can still walk straight line, think, and type pretty typo-free :P means, it's not that bad | Mar 22 01:14 |
| _Hicham_1 | did u use LXDE? | Mar 22 01:15 |
| PetoKraus | no never. | Mar 22 01:15 |
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| PetoKraus | ever since I started using Linux, i'm using E | Mar 22 01:15 |
| _Hicham_1 | E? | Mar 22 01:16 |
| PetoKraus | Enlightenment | Mar 22 01:16 |
| PetoKraus | i mean, THAT was the thing which made me switch | Mar 22 01:16 |
| _Hicham_1 | is it really light? | Mar 22 01:17 |
| PetoKraus | no | Mar 22 01:17 |
| PetoKraus | it's just pretty | Mar 22 01:17 |
| PetoKraus | and i like it | Mar 22 01:17 |
| PetoKraus | i don't really like gnome, and KDE just feels slow compared to E | Mar 22 01:18 |
| _Hicham_1 | which distro are u using? | Mar 22 01:18 |
| PetoKraus | (though to be honest, i never gave KDE a good try) | Mar 22 01:18 |
| PetoKraus | Archlinux | Mar 22 01:18 |
| PetoKraus | but i've gone trough a couple already (Elive, Debian, Gentoo, Arch) | Mar 22 01:19 |
| _Hicham_1 | i heard that it is filled with configuration | Mar 22 01:19 |
| _Hicham_1 | i never gave it a try | Mar 22 01:19 |
| PetoKraus | yes | Mar 22 01:19 |
| PetoKraus | well it's for people who know what they want | Mar 22 01:19 |
| PetoKraus | made by people who don't care about others opinion ;) | Mar 22 01:19 |
| schestowitz | Sorry I've been quiet. Posted links before bedtime. Hope you like em. | Mar 22 01:20 |
| schestowitz | gn | Mar 22 01:20 |
| PetoKraus | there is a coherent mindset among the small group of developers. That's good, it keeps the project focused and on track | Mar 22 01:20 |
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: gn | Mar 22 01:20 |
| _Hicham_1 | is it like gentoo? | Mar 22 01:20 |
| PetoKraus | it depends what aspect do you mean | Mar 22 01:20 |
| _Hicham_1 | do u have to compile everything, or there are binaries? | Mar 22 01:21 |
| PetoKraus | it's more user friendly, you don't need to toy around with useflags. It's also faster to maintain, due to binary packages. It's overally less stable though, | Mar 22 01:21 |
| PetoKraus | due to it's bleeding-edge rolling-release nature | Mar 22 01:21 |
| PetoKraus | so if you don't read news and just update, you can end up with unbootable system or so | Mar 22 01:22 |
| PetoKraus | (well, that's what the news are for, you ought to check them...) | Mar 22 01:22 |
| _Hicham_1 | like debian sid | Mar 22 01:22 |
| _Hicham_1 | ? | Mar 22 01:22 |
| PetoKraus | (prime example being transitions to new Xorg servers) | Mar 22 01:22 |
| PetoKraus | well, we could say yes | Mar 22 01:22 |
| PetoKraus | but packages are NOT split in idiotical -dev -doc -whatever way | Mar 22 01:23 |
| _Hicham_1 | u just get the full package, with development headers and doc? | Mar 22 01:23 |
| PetoKraus | and the arch build system is REALLY easy to grasp | Mar 22 01:23 |
| PetoKraus | i think so | Mar 22 01:23 |
| PetoKraus | (arch build system is there to help you rebuild packages if they need to be rebuilt againist new libraries, which happens from time to time) | Mar 22 01:24 |
| _Hicham_1 | then the packages must be huge | Mar 22 01:24 |
| PetoKraus | well | Mar 22 01:25 |
| _Hicham_1 | the dependencies are well managed? | Mar 22 01:25 |
| PetoKraus | yes they are | Mar 22 01:25 |
| PetoKraus | you can force-remove a package though | Mar 22 01:25 |
| PetoKraus | if you want to | Mar 22 01:26 |
| PetoKraus | which is a good feature, if you want to replace one thing deep in the dependency stack with something custom built | Mar 22 01:26 |
| PetoKraus | libx11 has 9880KB installed size | Mar 22 01:26 |
| MinceR | gn | Mar 22 01:27 |
| PetoKraus | and i guess it includes all of those: http://packages.debian.org/search?... | Mar 22 01:27 |
| _Hicham_1 | wow | Mar 22 01:27 |
| _Hicham_1 | that is not very practical | Mar 22 01:28 |
| _Hicham_1 | it is not for daily use then | Mar 22 01:28 |
| _Hicham_1 | it is developer centric | Mar 22 01:28 |
| PetoKraus | hmm | Mar 22 01:28 |
| PetoKraus | it's simple | Mar 22 01:28 |
| PetoKraus | you know you want libx11 | Mar 22 01:28 |
| PetoKraus | so you get it whole as it is | Mar 22 01:28 |
| PetoKraus | vanilla, from upstream | Mar 22 01:28 |
| PetoKraus | that's the main point of arch as well | Mar 22 01:29 |
| _Hicham_1 | everything is vanilla version? | Mar 22 01:29 |
| PetoKraus | most of the packages are vanilla. Kernel is only slightly patched, for example | Mar 22 01:29 |
| _Hicham_1 | what about performance? | Mar 22 01:29 |
| PetoKraus | xorg-server has just the xorg-redhat-die-ugly-pattern-die-die-die.patch | Mar 22 01:30 |
| PetoKraus | well | Mar 22 01:30 |
| PetoKraus | it's i686 and x86_64 | Mar 22 01:30 |
| _Hicham_1 | do u have i686? | Mar 22 01:30 |
| PetoKraus | x86_64 | Mar 22 01:30 |
| PetoKraus | i've got a Core 2 Duo machine | Mar 22 01:30 |
| PetoKraus | i am running testing | Mar 22 01:31 |
| PetoKraus | so far, i've spotted quite a lot of bugs | Mar 22 01:31 |
| PetoKraus | but either they are fixed quite fast | Mar 22 01:31 |
| PetoKraus | or not :) | Mar 22 01:31 |
| PetoKraus | and most of them are xorg related | Mar 22 01:31 |
| _Hicham_1 | xorg is always filled with bugs | Mar 22 01:32 |
| PetoKraus | yeah | Mar 22 01:32 |
| _Hicham_1 | especially memory leaks | Mar 22 01:32 |
| PetoKraus | i've got a nice memleak right now | Mar 22 01:32 |
| _Hicham_1 | as they are hard to track | Mar 22 01:32 |
| PetoKraus | http://bugs.archlinux.or... | Mar 22 01:32 |
| _Hicham_1 | it is quick | Mar 22 01:35 |
| _Hicham_1 | the community is very active | Mar 22 01:36 |
| PetoKraus | yes | Mar 22 01:36 |
| PetoKraus | packages get marked out of date within minutes of release | Mar 22 01:36 |
| PetoKraus | i am quite keeping track on ATI and Xorg announcements on their mailinglists | Mar 22 01:36 |
| PetoKraus | and i've never managed to report a package out of date | Mar 22 01:37 |
| PetoKraus | and there's Xorg 1.6.0 going to extra within few days | Mar 22 01:37 |
| _Hicham_1 | Xorg will always have problems | Mar 22 01:37 |
| _Hicham_1 | since open source drivers can't follow up | Mar 22 01:38 |
| _Hicham_1 | it is sad, but it is the truth | Mar 22 01:39 |
| _Hicham_1 | if u want good working Xorg, pick up an old hardware | Mar 22 01:39 |
| PetoKraus | yeah | Mar 22 01:40 |
| _Hicham_1 | worse, ati proprietary driver drops support for old hardware | Mar 22 01:40 |
| _Hicham_1 | so ur hardware must not be very new, nor very old | Mar 22 01:40 |
| _Hicham_1 | the only company which keeps their drivers open source is intel | Mar 22 01:43 |
| _Hicham_1 | once again, intel chipsets are not very powerful | Mar 22 01:43 |
| _Hicham_1 | especially for gamers | Mar 22 01:43 |
| PetoKraus | well i'm happy with ATI foss drivers | Mar 22 01:44 |
| _Hicham_1 | me too | Mar 22 01:44 |
| _Hicham_1 | i dont use proprietary one anymore | Mar 22 01:45 |
| _Hicham_1 | have had more problem with the proprietary one | Mar 22 01:45 |
| _Hicham_1 | 1 problem : couldnt play videos with xv and compiz | Mar 22 01:45 |
| PetoKraus | yeah | Mar 22 01:46 |
| _Hicham_1 | second : screen corruption when trying to swap between lcd and crt | Mar 22 01:46 |
| _Hicham_1 | third : any opengl window flickers with compiz on | Mar 22 01:47 |
| _Hicham_1 | by the way, do u use compiz? | Mar 22 01:47 |
| PetoKraus | no :) | Mar 22 01:48 |
| PetoKraus | i use enlightenment, that's a window manager | Mar 22 01:48 |
| oiaohm | DRI 2 designed drivers are way better than DRI 1 versions. | Mar 22 01:48 |
| oiaohm | Compiz was doing a nasty hack on DRI 1 drivers leading to all kinds of bad things. | Mar 22 01:49 |
| oiaohm | flicking was the smallest of the troubles that could happen. | Mar 22 01:49 |
| _Hicham_1 | wb oiaohm | Mar 22 01:49 |
| _Hicham_1 | always glad to hear from u | Mar 22 01:50 |
| oiaohm | Linux Hater at moment is trying to make out that boottime is not important. | Mar 22 01:50 |
| PetoKraus | brb | Mar 22 01:50 |
| oiaohm | Its one of the most important benchmark systems. | Mar 22 01:50 |
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| oiaohm | Where else can you test kernel operations in a 100 percent repeatable way. | Mar 22 01:51 |
| _Hicham_1 | i heard that intel guys managed to get fedora booting in 5 seconds | Mar 22 01:52 |
| _Hicham_1 | did u read about that? | Mar 22 01:52 |
| oiaohm | How was stripping services. | Mar 22 01:53 |
| oiaohm | And fast boot patches that are not mainline yet. | Mar 22 01:53 |
| oiaohm | In theory the init process should be able to start inside 1 secound of kernel init. | Mar 22 01:53 |
| _Hicham_1 | did u read the article in lwn? | Mar 22 01:54 |
| oiaohm | I directly folllow the fast boot sub tree of the Linux kernel. | Mar 22 01:57 |
| _Hicham_1 | why the patches from the Intel engineers weren't merged? | Mar 22 01:58 |
| oiaohm | Lot of work is need to make sure they are stable in all events. | Mar 22 01:58 |
| oiaohm | There were quite a few lets just by pass locks for now in the first patches. | Mar 22 01:58 |
| oiaohm | So locking structs and the like have to be corrected before applied to mainline. | Mar 22 01:59 |
| _Hicham_1 | I was really glad to hear that | Mar 22 02:00 |
| oiaohm | Yes its easy to do proff of consept. Making the final product is the hard bit. | Mar 22 02:00 |
| _Hicham_1 | Windows is faster to boot | Mar 22 02:00 |
| _Hicham_1 | overall | Mar 22 02:00 |
| _Hicham_1 | that is what i remarked | Mar 22 02:00 |
| oiaohm | Windows is faster for two reasons. | Mar 22 02:00 |
| oiaohm | Number one there complier optimises way better than gcc. | Mar 22 02:01 |
| oiaohm | Number two lot of stuff has been done on boot time profiling. | Mar 22 02:01 |
| Eruaran | my Kubuntu 9.04 boots pretty fast | Mar 22 02:01 |
| oiaohm | Eruaran: its a snail to what it could be. | Mar 22 02:01 |
| oiaohm | Current gcc has a fatail flaw. | Mar 22 02:02 |
| oiaohm | ld stage does no optimisation. | Mar 22 02:02 |
| oiaohm | ld/linking. | Mar 22 02:02 |
| _Hicham_1 | oiaohm : what if we use icc? | Mar 22 02:02 |
| oiaohm | llvm releation to gcc does link time optimisation. | Mar 22 02:02 |
| oiaohm | icc is not 100 percent gcc compadible. | Mar 22 02:03 |
| _Hicham_1 | have u ever tried to compile the kernel with icc? | Mar 22 02:03 |
| oiaohm | Not advistable. | Mar 22 02:03 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel has a lot of gcc only stuff. | Mar 22 02:04 |
| oiaohm | To optimise stuff. | Mar 22 02:04 |
| oiaohm | icc ends up slower than gcc | Mar 22 02:04 |
| _Hicham_1 | can we use llvm then to optimize during link time? | Mar 22 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Yes. | Mar 22 02:08 |
| _Hicham_1 | why it is not done then? | Mar 22 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Good question. | Mar 22 02:10 |
| _Hicham_1 | do u have the answer? | Mar 22 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Most distributions are sticking to the complier they know it seams. | Mar 22 02:10 |
| _Hicham_1 | i dont understand | Mar 22 02:10 |
| _Hicham_1 | can u explain more? | Mar 22 02:11 |
| oiaohm | There is really no specal reason against using llvm. | Mar 22 02:11 |
| _Hicham_1 | is it a matter of compatibility? | Mar 22 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Other than build scripts are design to ask for gcc first. | Mar 22 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Its just a simple case of people using what they know. | Mar 22 02:11 |
| oiaohm | In 12 months time it most likely will not be important when gcc should get link time optimisation as well. | Mar 22 02:12 |
| _Hicham_1 | have u ever tried to use llvm with the kernel? | Mar 22 02:12 |
| _Hicham_1 | i mean to build it | Mar 22 02:12 |
| _Hicham_1 | ? | Mar 22 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel I have not tried llvm on. | Mar 22 02:12 |
| _Hicham_1 | u dont have time to? | Mar 22 02:13 |
| oiaohm | I have a rule with my Linux kernel when it working right leave it alone. | Mar 22 02:14 |
| oiaohm | http://llvm.org/docs/Garbag... << llvm has a huge effect on memory usage of C++ programs. | Mar 22 02:14 |
| _Hicham_1 | does it support automatic garbage colletion? | Mar 22 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Type | Mar 22 02:17 |
| oiaohm | of automatic garbage collection. | Mar 22 02:17 |
| _Hicham_1 | without altering performance? | Mar 22 02:18 |
| oiaohm | Accurate Garbage Collection used in llvm is more complex on the complier. Since at run time is not really garbage collection | Mar 22 02:18 |
| oiaohm | allocation and free statements. It takes less cpu time because most of the work of the garbage collection was done at built time. | Mar 22 02:18 |
| _Hicham_1 | garbage collection at build time? | Mar 22 02:19 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Mar 22 02:20 |
| oiaohm | Instead of runtime | Mar 22 02:20 |
| _Hicham_1 | that is pretty powerful | Mar 22 02:21 |
| _Hicham_1 | java is fucked then | Mar 22 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Java to native code in not fucked. | Mar 22 02:22 |
| oiaohm | As complier improve the advantages of jit will reduce. | Mar 22 02:23 |
| _Hicham_1 | it is fucked then | Mar 22 02:23 |
| _Hicham_1 | since memory management is one of the things that attracts programmers | Mar 22 02:24 |
| _Hicham_1 | if u give them automatic memory management | Mar 22 02:24 |
| _Hicham_1 | while retaining full performance of native code | Mar 22 02:24 |
| oiaohm | llvm is a code rewriter as well. | Mar 22 02:24 |
| oiaohm | When gcc gets link time optmistaion as well less time programmers will have to spend optimising for speed. | Mar 22 02:25 |
| _Hicham_1 | is there a benchmark for code compiled with gcc vs llvm? | Mar 22 02:25 |
| oiaohm | The interesting bench mark I cannot find what is a C++ bench. | Mar 22 02:31 |
| oiaohm | Other problem is most benchmarks don't show the linktime optimisation effect. | Mar 22 02:32 |
| oiaohm | Yes gcc can beat llvm slightly when everything is in a single file. | Mar 22 02:32 |
| _Hicham_1 | i mean, a known program such as firefox, compiled with and without llvm | Mar 22 02:32 |
| _Hicham_1 | what would be best? | Mar 22 02:32 |
| oiaohm | llvm | Mar 22 02:32 |
| _Hicham_1 | better than pgo? | Mar 22 02:33 |
| oiaohm | portland group would still be faster. | Mar 22 02:33 |
| _Hicham_1 | on linux? | Mar 22 02:33 |
| oiaohm | Reason it has optimisations like gcc can do in a single file. | Mar 22 02:33 |
| oiaohm | Done accross the complete application. | Mar 22 02:33 |
| oiaohm | On Linux _Hicham_1 | Mar 22 02:34 |
| _Hicham_1 | can we compile firefox with portland's group? | Mar 22 02:34 |
| oiaohm | If you buy portland group and using gcc emulation yes. | Mar 22 02:34 |
| _Hicham_1 | have u tested that? | Mar 22 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Best result you can get is a evil long process out the the open source. | Mar 22 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Use llvm to merge application into one huge single c or c++ file. | Mar 22 02:36 |
| oiaohm | Then process gcc over that file. | Mar 22 02:36 |
| oiaohm | And pray gcc don't crash. | Mar 22 02:36 |
| oiaohm | I have done that on a few items. Firefox is down right scary. Watched 8 gb of ram disappear. | Mar 22 02:37 |
| oiaohm | into gcc | Mar 22 02:37 |
| _Hicham_1 | 8gb of ram? | Mar 22 02:38 |
| oiaohm | Yes complier using 8gb of ram to process stuff out _Hicham_1 | Mar 22 02:38 |
| _Hicham_1 | wow | Mar 22 02:40 |
| _Hicham_1 | pretty scary | Mar 22 02:40 |
| _Hicham_1 | what about llvm? | Mar 22 02:40 |
| *tessier needs to learn more about llvm | Mar 22 02:57 | |
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| mib_6phd9a | Sigh...no one's ever here when I visit. That's what I get for living at the other side of the world. | Mar 22 03:24 |
| _Hicham_1 | hi there | Mar 22 03:25 |
| mib_6phd9a | Chris Day here, just checking in to see if there's a conversation going. | Mar 22 03:25 |
| mib_6phd9a | Hi Hicham_1! There's someone here! | Mar 22 03:25 |
| mib_6phd9a | It's 8:30pm where I am. | Mar 22 03:26 |
| _Hicham_1 | yes | Mar 22 03:26 |
| _Hicham_1 | where r u? | Mar 22 03:26 |
| mib_6phd9a | Sadly, I have nothing interesting to add to any conversations, I generally just read them. (I'm in Arizona, USA | Mar 22 03:27 |
| _Hicham_1 | u can add whatever u want | Mar 22 03:28 |
| mib_6phd9a | Whenever I have time off work I try to check here to see if there's a coversation going. I usually just get to read the archived chats. | Mar 22 03:28 |
| mib_6phd9a | Oops that should have been "conversation"... | Mar 22 03:29 |
| mib_6phd9a | I'd much rather read than comment... | Mar 22 03:29 |
| mib_6phd9a | Bye for now... | Mar 22 03:31 |
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| oiaohm | _Hicham_1 llvm alone not that scary. Its all the optimisation processing gcc can do and its memory leaks that end up at the 8 gb mark. | Mar 22 03:49 |
| oiaohm | About 1 GB should be enough if stuff don't leak _Hicham_1 | Mar 22 03:50 |
| _Hicham_1 | 1 GB for firefox? | Mar 22 04:15 |
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| yuhong | I finally reviewed the IRC logs and realize why I did not get any response. | Mar 22 04:42 |
| yuhong | I think it is related to trolling. | Mar 22 04:42 |
| oiaohm | First time I have seen you I think yuhong | Mar 22 04:43 |
| yuhong | oiaohm: No, I was on IRC long before you have seen me. | Mar 22 04:44 |
| oiaohm | I was meaning putting a message in here yuhong | Mar 22 04:45 |
| yuhong | On the matter of laptop gifting, I think the key thing is the conditions of the gift | Mar 22 04:45 |
| oiaohm | Not really yuhong | Mar 22 04:46 |
| oiaohm | Taking gifts by nature can introduce bias. | Mar 22 04:46 |
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| oiaohm | Key thing is being truthful about taking gifts. | Mar 22 04:47 |
| oiaohm | O well warped mood. A Riddle with many different answers. When is a path not a path and a door not a door and a key not a key? | Mar 22 04:55 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Mar 22 07:12 |
| oiaohm | Hi schestowitz | Mar 22 07:24 |
| oiaohm | A Riddle with many different answers. When is a path not a path and a door not a door and a key not a key? | Mar 22 07:24 |
| schestowitz | Go ahead. | Mar 22 07:25 |
| oiaohm | One as when its on a map. | Mar 22 07:26 |
| schestowitz | I c....... | Mar 22 07:29 |
| schestowitz | IBM bid reportedly held up by due diligence < http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ib... > | Mar 22 07:29 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft uses the press and bloggers whom it bribes to set a consensus where Windows7 is the naked emperor and you must love it: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0... | Mar 22 08:14 |
| schestowitz | Coverage in Vista in the past week: 3; 'Windows 7': 12 | Mar 22 08:15 |
| schestowitz | Take home message: Forget the present. Think about the future. Vapourware Vapourware Vapourware Vapourware. | Mar 22 08:15 |
| schestowitz | hhhmmmm.... Microsoft not a sponsor here: http://www.sdforum.org/index.cfm?fuseact... But it uses it to corrupt 'open source' nonethelesss | Mar 22 08:21 |
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| schestowitz | Two bad companies join forces. "Coke has teamed up with Microsoft to give away three million Microsoft points for free to Xbox Live users. " < http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Coke... > | Mar 22 08:28 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft shuts Adcenter Analytics < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new... > | Mar 22 09:13 |
| schestowitz | Oh! The Microsoft talking points unleashed by it's shill Preston Gralla: " Google is following in Microsoft's monopoly footsteps" | Mar 22 09:13 |
| schestowitz | Classic. Off Microsoft's books...delivered by it's loyal shill, Gralla. | Mar 22 09:13 |
| schestowitz | Gralla's posting pattern: anti-Google, anti-Google, anti-Linux, pro-Vista7, anti-Google, anti-Linux....... he's worse than Enderle | Mar 22 09:15 |
| oiaohm | Gralla there is not much I can do to take a person like him out. | Mar 22 09:16 |
| oiaohm | Other than hope his funding drys up. | Mar 22 09:16 |
| schestowitz | He's in IDG | Mar 22 09:16 |
| schestowitz | They are paid by Microsoft | Mar 22 09:16 |
| schestowitz | SJVN is the only person then not toxicated by with bias | Mar 22 09:16 |
| schestowitz | Money at 'work': U.S. taxpayers funding Microsoft campus bridge < http://news.cnet.com/8301-... >; US taxpayers to build Microsoft a bridge < http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?opti... > | Mar 22 09:22 |
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| trmanco | http://www.extremetech.com/... | Mar 22 11:01 |
| trmanco | we can't even see porn for free now | Mar 22 11:01 |
| trmanco | Playboy Posts Unedited Back Issues Online, for Free | Mar 22 11:02 |
| trmanco | "Through a partnership between Microsoft and Bondi Digital Publishing, Playboy Enterprises has put 53 back issues of Playboy on the Web, viewable through Microsoft's Silverlight viewer. " | Mar 22 11:02 |
| trmanco | microsoft goes after porn addicts now | Mar 22 11:02 |
| schestowitz | Miguel de Icaza bragged about it | Mar 22 11:05 |
| schestowitz | Watch his blog | Mar 22 11:05 |
| trmanco | ... | Mar 22 11:07 |
| oiaohm | I hope tomtom wins case against MS. | Mar 22 11:11 |
| oiaohm | Might get MS out of the idea that Patents will save them. | Mar 22 11:12 |
| oiaohm | And them seeing them as loaded guns pointed at them. | Mar 22 11:12 |
| zer0c00l | " microsoft goes after porn addicts now" M$ itself a seductive wh0re :P | Mar 22 11:15 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: Microsoft has a proven record of using sex to sell. I have examples. | Mar 22 11:19 |
| oiaohm | You would not have the one with the lady with privates covered by cd in your collection schestowitz | Mar 22 11:21 |
| oiaohm | When computer mags really controling ad content. | Mar 22 11:22 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I don't think I saw that one | Mar 22 11:33 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it requires Silver Lies ;-) | Mar 22 11:33 |
| oiaohm | Its 1983 about. Yes I read some really old mags at one point. | Mar 22 11:35 |
| oiaohm | It got confustated when I was in high school. | Mar 22 11:37 |
| trmanco | zer0c00l, :p | Mar 22 11:57 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: the magazine of the Microsoft wares? (confiscated) | Mar 22 11:58 |
| oiaohm | It was the ad Lady was basically nude bar correctly place arm and correctly placed cd. | Mar 22 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Basically the is no way you would get that into a general computer mag of today. | Mar 22 12:00 |
| oiaohm | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/art... << So how I think we are getting too smart for our own good. | Mar 22 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Australia uses Active Area Dinial Systems instead of mine field on the battle field all ready. | Mar 22 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Basically walk into the area have automatic guns target and fire on you. | Mar 22 12:05 |
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| _Hicham_1 | Hi All! | Mar 22 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_1 | Mar 22 12:07 |
| schestowitz | Hey, _Hicham_1 | Mar 22 12:09 |
| _Hicham_1 | how r u doing? | Mar 22 12:12 |
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| Eruaran | hi | Mar 22 12:42 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Mar 22 13:17 |
| trmanco | http://www.raduc.ro/blog/2009/li... | Mar 22 13:19 |
| trmanco | haha, funny | Mar 22 13:19 |
| trmanco | http://www.tuxradar.com/co... -> finally a good non newbie tutorial | Mar 22 13:21 |
| *schestowitz disinterested in Linux fanboyism | Mar 22 13:25 | |
| schestowitz | *Linus, not Linux | Mar 22 13:25 |
| trmanco | it's not fanboyism | Mar 22 13:26 |
| trmanco | fanboys are the kind of people that if you say something negative about what they like, they will punch you in the face | Mar 22 13:27 |
| trmanco | enthusiast would be a better word | Mar 22 13:28 |
| trmanco | bbl | Mar 22 13:28 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | Mar 22 13:29 |
| schestowitz | I didn't read it carefully, but those posts that glorify Linus are kind of petty sometimes | Mar 22 13:29 |
| schestowitz | The operating system is the work of so many | Mar 22 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Linus is known for his means to start and end flame wars. | Mar 22 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Yes I do mean start. Some of the most famous in the Linux mailing list were started by him. | Mar 22 13:31 |
| Eruaran | I do that as a source of amusement | Mar 22 13:35 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: he views it as humour, I guess. | Mar 22 13:38 |
| oiaohm | Normally it keyboard in mouth. | Mar 22 13:39 |
| oiaohm | Like making a mistake of critising C++ | Mar 22 13:39 |
| oiaohm | That turned into a multi month debate. | Mar 22 13:39 |
| schestowitz | KY Election Officials Arrested, Charged With 'Changing Votes at E-Voting Machines' < http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7001 > | Mar 22 13:42 |
| schestowitz | Does it say in whose favour they tilted it? | Mar 22 13:43 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009... | Mar 22 13:44 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Last week the server did about 300 SQL/ops per second, so we /really/ needed to take it offline and rethink. The host is happy enough with the changes we made. I applied some caching, so it's down to just over 100 SQL/ops per second now. I think we outgrew Groklaw a while ago. | Mar 22 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Yep caching of some form was required. | Mar 22 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Boycott Novell keeps growing and I discover about journalists who lurk there (they tell me) even if they don't comment or reference it. I think the name makes them too reluctant to link to it. Imagine linking from academic work to stuff that's called "boycott {anything}" | Mar 22 13:48 |
| schestowitz | The issues is that inbound links leads to greater visibility and lacking an image that's easy to link to, this may prove hard. Diversity/pluralism in sources too is needed but I cross-ref for speed most of the time | Mar 22 13:49 |
| Eruaran | They can link to your sources | Mar 22 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Nasty picture there with the snake, but there are uglier ones | Mar 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Pythons can devours adult humans too | Mar 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Anacondas -- easily. | Mar 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: yes, that's what they do. Wikipedia is a similar story | Mar 22 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Academic forbid using Wikipedia as a source, so people skip to "References". We have some links in Wikipedia too, but I noticed that over time they get changed ('ironed out') | Mar 22 13:51 |
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| _Hicham_1 | oiaohm : are u still here? | Mar 22 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Mar 22 14:04 |
| schestowitz | Hey, _Hicham_1. | Mar 22 14:20 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_1: do you think BN should change the theme? Me and others in IRC discussed it yesterday and looked at themes. It was decided at the end that it's better not to change. Shane is also pretty much in favour of tweaking the existing one, but I'm not so sure. | Mar 22 14:28 |
| _Hicham_1 | Roy : the theme should be changed | Mar 22 14:37 |
| _Hicham_1 | also, the site must reorganized | Mar 22 14:38 |
| _Hicham_1 | i think that it is pretty confusing | Mar 22 14:39 |
| _Hicham_1 | the site have grown to be more than a Novell issue | Mar 22 14:43 |
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| _Hicham_1 | no one is in here | Mar 22 15:01 |
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| *schestowitz does things around the house today | Mar 22 15:10 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_1: agreed. I will need to index the material and organise by topic/timeline | Mar 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | I'll use the wiki | Mar 22 15:13 |
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| _Hicham_1 | Roy : the wiki is great idea | Mar 22 15:39 |
| schestowitz | I'll check WordPress extensions dirst | Mar 22 16:01 |
| schestowitz | There might be something to pull related posts and make sense of them based on categories. | Mar 22 16:01 |
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| _Hicham_1 | I dont know about wordpress | Mar 22 16:18 |
| _Hicham_1 | I use Drupal | Mar 22 16:18 |
| schestowitz | I'll need to find a new way to manage the site | Mar 22 16:42 |
| schestowitz | I am upgrading two blogs today | Mar 22 16:42 |
| schestowitz | But for BN I'll need to manually do the index in a Wiki and then link to it. | Mar 22 16:43 |
| schestowitz | WP 2.7 is really nice. I am upgrading the third Web site now. Maybe you can see it on that CMS test drive site... familiarise yourself with the new admin panel. Installation now is super simple. File management too. | Mar 22 16:45 |
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| _Hicham_1 | the channel is quiet today | Mar 22 18:50 |
| _Hicham_1 | weird | Mar 22 18:50 |
| Balrog_ | I'm here | Mar 22 19:08 |
| schestowitz | I'm back | Mar 22 19:16 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_1: yes, sometimes it's quiet. I'm also not doing much but housework today | Mar 22 19:17 |
| _Hicham_1 | are u living alone? | Mar 22 19:20 |
| _Hicham_1 | no one to help around? | Mar 22 19:20 |
| schestowitz | Yes. | Mar 22 19:20 |
| Balrog_ | I'm here | Mar 22 19:21 |
| _Hicham_1 | BN is now a big source of information | Mar 22 19:21 |
| _Hicham_1 | but be careful Roy, someone may try to kill u | Mar 22 19:22 |
| schestowitz | My mail is not getting through right now. Hasn't for about 2 hours. Could back mail server lag :-S | Mar 22 19:38 |
| Balrog_ | hope not ddos | Mar 22 19:39 |
| Balrog_ | :/ | Mar 22 19:39 |
| schestowitz | HTTP works well | Mar 22 19:39 |
| schestowitz | It's too early to ask the host | Mar 22 19:39 |
| Balrog_ | hm ok. | Mar 22 19:39 |
| Balrog_ | ping the mail server | Mar 22 19:40 |
| Balrog_ | do you have ssh access? | Mar 22 19:40 |
| schestowitz | No | Mar 22 19:40 |
| schestowitz | It's not bouncing either | Mar 22 19:40 |
| Balrog_ | :/ | Mar 22 19:40 |
| Balrog_ | ssh access is very useful | Mar 22 19:40 |
| schestowitz | I have a quota warning, but that's not it | Mar 22 19:40 |
| schestowitz | "Server Load 2.85 (4 cpus)" | Mar 22 19:41 |
| Balrog_ | hm. | Mar 22 19:42 |
| schestowitz | via FTP, nothing's there. | Mar 22 19:44 |
| Balrog_ | normal? | Mar 22 19:44 |
| schestowitz | I'll make some space just in case | Mar 22 19:47 |
| schestowitz | The mail server seems to have been down for 3 hours or something like that unless I am doing something wrong (nothing was changed on my account). I'll admit this is so rare that I can't recall it ever occurring before. | Mar 22 19:58 |
| Balrog_ | hrm. | Mar 22 19:59 |
| schestowitz | "I am working on a few issues with blueberry at the moment, so have shutdown exim as a precaution, any email will be queued and delivered once its all up and running again. My apologies for any inconvenience caused." | Mar 22 20:08 |
| schestowitz | So they know about it. But wow. You have no idea how rare this is, and no mail will be lost, either. | Mar 22 20:09 |
| Balrog_ | I see. | Mar 22 20:09 |
| schestowitz | In 4 years I can think of maybe 2 occasions when the mail server was no there. And I poll every 60 seconds on the main account. | Mar 22 20:09 |
| Balrog_ | they're not using sendmail :) | Mar 22 20:09 |
| schestowitz | No. | Mar 22 20:09 |
| schestowitz | brb | Mar 22 20:10 |
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| trmanco | http://www.tuxradar.com/conte... | Mar 22 20:20 |
| MinceR | r4wr | Mar 22 20:33 |
| trmanco | what?? | Mar 22 20:37 |
| MinceR | r4wr! | Mar 22 20:43 |
| trmanco | :| | Mar 22 20:43 |
| MinceR | >:3 | Mar 22 20:43 |
| trmanco | rawr | Mar 22 20:43 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: BN does more | Mar 22 20:45 |
| schestowitz | " Linux users make up 34.47% and Mac users are 9.19%. Here's the full list: | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 1. Windows: 55.11% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 2. Linux: 34.47% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 3. Macintosh: 9.19% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 4. iPhone: 0.45% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 5. Unknown: 0.35% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 6. iPod: 0.14% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 7. FreeBSD: 0.08% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 8. SunOS: 0.07% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 9. Android: 0.05% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 10. SymbianOS: 0.03% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 11. OpenBSD: 0.01% | Mar 22 20:46 |
| schestowitz | " | Mar 22 20:46 |
| Balrog_ | those are people who go to tuxradar? | Mar 22 20:49 |
| Balrog_ | not surprising | Mar 22 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Yes, similar in BN | Mar 22 20:54 |
| schestowitz | For mMrach 2009: | Mar 22 20:55 |
| schestowitz | "Windows81095044.5 % | Mar 22 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Linux72198839.6 % | Mar 22 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Unknown18651710.2 % | Mar 22 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Macintosh953045.2 % | Mar 22 20:55 |
| schestowitz | BSD22400.1 %" | Mar 22 20:55 |
| Balrog_ | those numbers are all mixed :/ | Mar 22 21:00 |
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| schestowitz | Search Google Images By Color < http://blogoscoped.com/archive/20... > | Mar 22 21:08 |
| MinceR | i prefer tineye.com | Mar 22 21:09 |
| schestowitz | GNU/Linux sub-notebooks now selling for $200: http://asuseeehacks.blogspot.com/2009/03/... (TomTop sells 7" Xburst Netbooks for USD209) | Mar 22 21:09 |
| schestowitz | Hahaha. "[Via Google Translate: Richard Stollman. In 1990, he announced a crusade against Microsoft and several other whale computer business. He cracks the sites where the proposed purchase new software. And then handed out to the people free.]" http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.co... | Mar 22 21:10 |
| schestowitz | âaking the War against Terror to a New Level... < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/200... > | Mar 22 21:13 |
| _Hicham_2 | Roy : u may be reported as a terrorist | Mar 22 21:15 |
| _Hicham_2 | after being reported as a child molester | Mar 22 21:15 |
| schestowitz | If only it was true... | Mar 22 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Never been labels (libeled) a "terrorist" before and I could probably sue those who accused me and other Linux advocates from USENET of being "pedophiles" | Mar 22 21:16 |
| schestowitz | One of the guys there, a German, threatened to sue the bastards who 'planted' such libel about him. | Mar 22 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Anti-war protestors labeled terrorists: http://www.actionpa.org/greenscare/ | Mar 22 21:18 |
| schestowitz | There was another example last year. twitter wrote about it. | Mar 22 21:18 |
| schestowitz | 10 Easy Ways to Be Labeled a “Terrorist” by the Government < http://planetsave.com/blog/2009/03/11/... > | Mar 22 21:18 |
| schestowitz | http://www.icenews.is/index.php/20... | Mar 22 21:19 |
| schestowitz | "When United Kingdom authorities used anti-terrorism laws against Iceland last October, a group called In Defence was formed. The group’s website received a great deal of international attention for its quirky and imaginative use of photographs to highlight the idea that calling Icelanders terrorists could hardly be a less accurate description." | Mar 22 21:19 |
| schestowitz | More 'open source' that's not: http://lifehacker.com/5175045/op... http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/20... When hacker !=cracker and OSS was software, code... | Mar 22 21:21 |
| schestowitz | Something called "the Open Source Software Institute" wrote this? http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/11257.html "Open Source Software Institute" ?? | Mar 22 21:34 |
| *schestowitz tells Tiemann | Mar 22 21:36 | |
| schestowitz | Now what it sounds like: Linux will never rule the desktop < http://www.handlewithlinux.com/linu... > | Mar 22 22:01 |
| _Hicham_2 | this poster is just crazy | Mar 22 22:04 |
| _Hicham_2 | he is missing a lot of points | Mar 22 22:04 |
| _Hicham_2 | but it is fun though | Mar 22 22:04 |
| _Hicham_2 | i like to read such funny articles | Mar 22 22:04 |
| schestowitz | "I can't wait for the year the desktop dies!" "The good thing is Microsoft will probably die with it!" | Mar 22 22:07 |
| schestowitz | Document Freedom Day is coming... Kieler Document Freedom Day < http://www.premiumpresse.de/kieler... > | Mar 22 22:09 |
| trmanco | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuW... | Mar 22 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Did you edit? | Mar 22 22:16 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, no | Mar 22 22:19 |
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| schestowitz | Parsix GNU/Linux 2.0 is out: http://www.parsix.org/html/News... | Mar 22 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Loads of new GNU/Linux releases in recent days:Scientific, Absolute, Denix, Incognito, LinuxKidX, Clonezilla, Igelle, K-DEMar, OpenGEU, Ututo, GParted, Parsix | Mar 22 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | New funny bizniz from another Novell: Rick Novell < http://www.youtube.com/w... > | Mar 22 22:47 |
| schestowitz | Seems like lies about RMS: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/... Al Gore 'invented' the Internet... or.... he never said that, but people have spun that. | Mar 22 22:50 |
| *Balrog__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 22 23:04 | |
| schestowitz | Asa sheds light on Firefox security disinformation: pwn2own confusion < http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/ar... > | Mar 22 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Making life hard(er): Fedora 10 goes Minstrel, wifi users rejoice! < http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2... > "I just got around to trying a 2.6.29 Fedora kernel the other day and noticed that it still wasn’t on, but John Linville was kind enough to fix that not even a day later, so you now have an option to get Minstrel on Fedora 10 without compiling your own kernel." | Mar 22 23:11 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: from your home town: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.o... | Mar 22 23:15 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmm... BN is doing almost 4GB today and I don't know what's causing it | Mar 22 23:24 |
| _Hicham_2 | quiet room today | Mar 22 23:46 |
| _Hicham_2 | nobody is talking | Mar 22 23:47 |
| _Hicham_2 | since there is no big talkers | Mar 22 23:47 |
| _Hicham_2 | like oiaohm | Mar 22 23:47 |
| _Hicham_2 | and balzac | Mar 22 23:47 |
| _Hicham_2 | where r they? | Mar 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | I don't know. | Mar 22 23:47 |
| _Hicham_2 | i like this room when it is full of discussion | Mar 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Tomorrow it'll be better | Mar 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Sundays are typically calm. | Mar 22 23:48 |
| schestowitz | I also have lots for BN tomorr | Mar 22 23:48 |
| schestowitz | ow | Mar 22 23:48 |
| _Hicham_2 | Roy : we must do some marketing for this channel and the website also | Mar 22 23:48 |
| schestowitz | What do you have in mind? | Mar 22 23:51 |
| _Hicham_2 | no idea for the moment | Mar 22 23:51 |
| _Hicham_2 | but I think that this channel should be promoted more | Mar 22 23:51 |
| schestowitz | You can promote ot recommend the site in places like OS News, LinuxToday, etc. | Mar 22 23:51 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_2: it's read by some people who are not here. | Mar 22 23:52 |
| _Hicham_2 | I know | Mar 22 23:52 |
| _Hicham_2 | as soon as I finish my website, I will put a link to it | Mar 22 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Thanks! | Mar 22 23:53 |
| schestowitz | When BN was young Shane promoted it by adding links to Digg | Mar 22 23:54 |
| schestowitz | That was 2006 | Mar 22 23:54 |
| _Hicham_2 | but it is still hard to convince people that Novell is doing sthg bad to Linux | Mar 22 23:55 |
| _Hicham_2 | it has done great job with Linux | Mar 22 23:55 |
| _Hicham_2 | second in corporate kernel contributions after redhat | Mar 22 23:55 |
| schestowitz | Some people don't know about Microsoft, either | Mar 22 23:56 |
| _Hicham_2 | helped a lot in Compiz by providing Xgl | Mar 22 23:56 |
| schestowitz | We need to oraganise the information cohesiveky | Mar 22 23:56 |
| schestowitz | For Novell too | Mar 22 23:56 |
| schestowitz | In icluding its crimes | Mar 22 23:56 |
| _Hicham_2 | that is what i said | Mar 22 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Fraud and the like | Mar 22 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Few people know about it | Mar 22 23:56 |
| _Hicham_2 | organizing is the key | Mar 22 23:56 |
| schestowitz | I make the material first | Mar 22 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Collected from some old bits | Mar 22 23:57 |
| _Hicham_2 | both in chronology and topics | Mar 22 23:57 |
| schestowitz | The time will come when I can organise more | Mar 22 23:57 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_2: yes | Mar 22 23:57 |
| _Hicham_2 | the site is becoming bigger and bigger | Mar 22 23:57 |
| _Hicham_2 | u should start organizing it from now on | Mar 22 23:58 |
| _Hicham_2 | the Novell-Microsoft Deal was just a sparkle | Mar 22 23:58 |
| _Hicham_2 | now it is a website about the truth | Mar 22 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | Mar 22 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Some time this year | Mar 22 23:59 |
| schestowitz | I meant about organising | Mar 22 23:59 |
| _Hicham_2 | I know | Mar 22 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Truth != consensus | Mar 22 23:59 |
| schestowitz | It rarely is. | Mar 22 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Also in politics | Mar 22 23:59 |