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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 22nd, 2009


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EruaranOne of the commenters is Will Stephenson who says:Mar 22 00:00
EruaranI've been working with Eric to package the Qyoto bindings in the KDE 4.2 repository from the openSUSE Build Service. You can find them here: 22 00:00
EruaranSame crowdMar 22 00:00
schestowitzOhMar 22 00:01
schestowitzBut waitMar 22 00:02
schestowitzis there any URL that directly shows Novell's hand in this (KDE-Mono)Mar 22 00:02
EruaranI doubt there would beMar 22 00:03
EruaranBut their purpose seems to be to disrupt established projectsMar 22 00:03
EruaranI mean why Synapse ?Mar 22 00:03
EruaranYet another instant messenger ?Mar 22 00:03
EruaranAnd they're aiming at KDE4Mar 22 00:04
EruaranWhere you'll find a popular KDE project called... KopeteMar 22 00:04
EruaranInstead of contributing to already existing projects, these assholes only and ALWAYS do another project entirely that is dependant on MonoMar 22 00:06
schestowitzReally?Mar 22 00:07
schestowitzMono?Mar 22 00:07
schestowitzIn KDE, as substitute?Mar 22 00:07
EruaranIn Miguel De Icaza's own words, "built with Qt/Qyoto/Mono"Mar 22 00:07
EruaranThis makes me so angryMar 22 00:08
Eruaranfucking piece of pond scumMar 22 00:08
MinceRnah, none of the things that live in a pond are nearly as nastyMar 22 00:08
Eruaranmy apologies to the pondMar 22 00:09
EruaranThese scumbags do not contribute to projects, they create new projects that depend on MonoMar 22 00:09
EruaranDon't think its unrelatedMar 22 00:12
EruaranThis guy goes out for dinner with MiguelMar 22 00:12
EruaranWhy not contribute to Koptete, which most KDE users use ?Mar 22 00:13
EruaranWhy create a whole other application ?Mar 22 00:13
EruaranAnd why Mono ?Mar 22 00:14
EruaranYou can bet anything that Miguel thinks is "a beautiful application" is as insidious as the friends he likes to hang out with in Redmond.Mar 22 00:15
BalrogI don't think the KDE people will support this...Mar 22 00:19
Balrogor will they ....Mar 22 00:20
schestowitzThey do the same via OpenSUSEMar 22 00:21
schestowitzPolluteMar 22 00:21
schestowitzThey take pride in Mono and MoonlightMar 22 00:21
schestowitzit's Novell's secret sauceMar 22 00:21
Balrogwho will support this if people have problems......?Mar 22 00:21
BalrogKDE or Mono?Mar 22 00:22
schestowitzProtection, makes Microsoft happy (Novell need to suck up to them for coupons)...Mar 22 00:22
schestowitzBalrog: I don't know.Mar 22 00:22
Balrogneither do I...Mar 22 00:22
Balrogit should be obvious what MS is trying to do ....Mar 22 00:23
EruaranI think Will Stephenson still works for Novell ?Mar 22 00:25
EruaranConfirmed.Mar 22 00:29
EruaranCaptcha is such crapMar 22 00:31
EruaranSupposed to confirm you're humanMar 22 00:32
EruaranAnd humans cant read the crap is displaysMar 22 00:32
Eruaranthat took about 5 tries...Mar 22 00:34
Balrogwhat about reCaptcha and other open stuff?Mar 22 00:45
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oiaohmschestowitz: been looking ACMA has had all the power for what they are doing for a long time.   ACMA has not fired any staff even that other goverment departmarts have.  So I would think its a pure money grab caused by the downturn.Mar 22 00:58
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_Hicham_1hi allMar 22 01:05
PetoKraushelloMar 22 01:06
_Hicham_1how r u doing?Mar 22 01:07
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PetoKrauspartially drunk, so pretty wellMar 22 01:08
PetoKrausthe term is finishing, go figureMar 22 01:08
PetoKraushow about you?Mar 22 01:09
mib_blr46hf:::: microsoft they are like thief'sMar 22 01:10
_Hicham_1im fine, not drunkMar 22 01:10
_Hicham_1but i think i shouldMar 22 01:10
_Hicham_1Roy is not here?Mar 22 01:10
_Hicham_1PetoKraus : u are very drunkMar 22 01:13
_Hicham_1:DMar 22 01:13
PetoKraus_Hicham_1: not really.Mar 22 01:14
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PetoKrausi can still walk straight line, think, and type pretty typo-free :P means, it's not that badMar 22 01:14
_Hicham_1did u use LXDE?Mar 22 01:15
PetoKrausno never.Mar 22 01:15
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PetoKrausever since I started using Linux, i'm using EMar 22 01:15
_Hicham_1E?Mar 22 01:16
PetoKrausEnlightenmentMar 22 01:16
PetoKrausi mean, THAT was the thing which made me switchMar 22 01:16
_Hicham_1is it really light?Mar 22 01:17
PetoKrausnoMar 22 01:17
PetoKrausit's just prettyMar 22 01:17
PetoKrausand i like itMar 22 01:17
PetoKrausi don't really like gnome, and KDE just feels slow compared to EMar 22 01:18
_Hicham_1which distro are u using?Mar 22 01:18
PetoKraus(though to be honest, i never gave KDE a good try)Mar 22 01:18
PetoKrausArchlinuxMar 22 01:18
PetoKrausbut i've gone trough a couple already (Elive, Debian, Gentoo, Arch)Mar 22 01:19
_Hicham_1i heard that it is filled with configurationMar 22 01:19
_Hicham_1i never gave it a tryMar 22 01:19
PetoKrausyesMar 22 01:19
PetoKrauswell it's for people who know what they wantMar 22 01:19
PetoKrausmade by people who don't care about others opinion ;)Mar 22 01:19
schestowitzSorry I've been quiet. Posted links before bedtime. Hope you like em.Mar 22 01:20
schestowitzgnMar 22 01:20
PetoKrausthere is a coherent mindset among the small group of developers. That's good, it keeps the project focused and on trackMar 22 01:20
PetoKrausschestowitz: gnMar 22 01:20
_Hicham_1is it like gentoo?Mar 22 01:20
PetoKrausit depends what aspect do you meanMar 22 01:20
_Hicham_1do u have to compile everything, or there are binaries?Mar 22 01:21
PetoKrausit's more user friendly, you don't need to toy around with useflags. It's also faster to maintain, due to binary packages. It's overally less stable though,Mar 22 01:21
PetoKrausdue to it's bleeding-edge rolling-release natureMar 22 01:21
PetoKrausso if you don't read news and just update, you can end up with unbootable system or soMar 22 01:22
PetoKraus(well, that's what the news are for, you ought to check them...)Mar 22 01:22
_Hicham_1like debian sidMar 22 01:22
_Hicham_1?Mar 22 01:22
PetoKraus(prime example being transitions to new Xorg servers)Mar 22 01:22
PetoKrauswell, we could say yesMar 22 01:22
PetoKrausbut packages are NOT split in idiotical -dev -doc -whatever wayMar 22 01:23
_Hicham_1u just get the full package, with development headers and doc?Mar 22 01:23
PetoKrausand the arch build system is REALLY easy to graspMar 22 01:23
PetoKrausi think soMar 22 01:23
PetoKraus(arch build system is there to help you rebuild packages if they need to be rebuilt againist new libraries, which happens from time to time)Mar 22 01:24
_Hicham_1then the packages must be hugeMar 22 01:24
PetoKrauswellMar 22 01:25
_Hicham_1the dependencies are well managed?Mar 22 01:25
PetoKrausyes they areMar 22 01:25
PetoKrausyou can force-remove a package thoughMar 22 01:25
PetoKrausif you want toMar 22 01:26
PetoKrauswhich is a good feature, if you want to replace one thing deep in the dependency stack with something custom builtMar 22 01:26
PetoKrauslibx11 has 9880KB installed sizeMar 22 01:26
MinceRgnMar 22 01:27
PetoKrausand i guess it includes all of those: 22 01:27
_Hicham_1wowMar 22 01:27
_Hicham_1that is not very practicalMar 22 01:28
_Hicham_1it is not for daily use thenMar 22 01:28
_Hicham_1it is developer centricMar 22 01:28
PetoKraushmmMar 22 01:28
PetoKrausit's simpleMar 22 01:28
PetoKrausyou know you want libx11Mar 22 01:28
PetoKrausso you get it whole as it isMar 22 01:28
PetoKrausvanilla, from upstreamMar 22 01:28
PetoKrausthat's the main point of arch as wellMar 22 01:29
_Hicham_1everything is vanilla version?Mar 22 01:29
PetoKrausmost of the packages are vanilla. Kernel is only slightly patched, for exampleMar 22 01:29
_Hicham_1what about performance?Mar 22 01:29
PetoKrausxorg-server has just the xorg-redhat-die-ugly-pattern-die-die-die.patchMar 22 01:30
PetoKrauswellMar 22 01:30
PetoKrausit's i686 and x86_64Mar 22 01:30
_Hicham_1do u have i686?Mar 22 01:30
PetoKrausx86_64Mar 22 01:30
PetoKrausi've got a Core 2 Duo machineMar 22 01:30
PetoKrausi am running testingMar 22 01:31
PetoKrausso far, i've spotted quite a lot of bugsMar 22 01:31
PetoKrausbut either they are fixed quite fastMar 22 01:31
PetoKrausor not :)Mar 22 01:31
PetoKrausand most of them are xorg relatedMar 22 01:31
_Hicham_1xorg is always filled with bugsMar 22 01:32
PetoKrausyeahMar 22 01:32
_Hicham_1especially memory leaksMar 22 01:32
PetoKrausi've got a nice memleak right nowMar 22 01:32
_Hicham_1as they are hard to trackMar 22 01:32
PetoKraushttp://bugs.archlinux.or...Mar 22 01:32
_Hicham_1it is quickMar 22 01:35
_Hicham_1the community is very activeMar 22 01:36
PetoKrausyesMar 22 01:36
PetoKrauspackages get marked out of date within minutes of releaseMar 22 01:36
PetoKrausi am quite keeping track on ATI and Xorg announcements on their mailinglistsMar 22 01:36
PetoKrausand i've never managed to report a package out of dateMar 22 01:37
PetoKrausand there's Xorg 1.6.0 going to extra within few daysMar 22 01:37
_Hicham_1Xorg will always have problemsMar 22 01:37
_Hicham_1since open source drivers can't follow upMar 22 01:38
_Hicham_1it is sad, but it is the truthMar 22 01:39
_Hicham_1if u want good working Xorg, pick up an old hardwareMar 22 01:39
PetoKrausyeahMar 22 01:40
_Hicham_1worse, ati proprietary driver drops support for old hardwareMar 22 01:40
_Hicham_1so ur hardware must not be very new, nor very oldMar 22 01:40
_Hicham_1the only company which keeps their drivers open source is intelMar 22 01:43
_Hicham_1once again, intel chipsets are not very powerfulMar 22 01:43
_Hicham_1especially for gamersMar 22 01:43
PetoKrauswell i'm happy with ATI foss driversMar 22 01:44
_Hicham_1me tooMar 22 01:44
_Hicham_1i dont use proprietary one anymoreMar 22 01:45
_Hicham_1have had more problem with the proprietary oneMar 22 01:45
_Hicham_11 problem : couldnt play videos with xv and compizMar 22 01:45
PetoKrausyeahMar 22 01:46
_Hicham_1second : screen corruption when trying to swap between lcd and crtMar 22 01:46
_Hicham_1third : any opengl window flickers with compiz onMar 22 01:47
_Hicham_1by the way, do u use compiz?Mar 22 01:47
PetoKrausno :)Mar 22 01:48
PetoKrausi use enlightenment, that's a window managerMar 22 01:48
oiaohmDRI 2 designed drivers are way better than DRI 1 versions.Mar 22 01:48
oiaohmCompiz was doing a nasty hack on DRI 1 drivers leading to all kinds of bad things.Mar 22 01:49
oiaohmflicking was the smallest of the troubles that could happen.Mar 22 01:49
_Hicham_1wb oiaohmMar 22 01:49
_Hicham_1always glad to hear from uMar 22 01:50
oiaohmLinux Hater at moment is trying to make out that boottime is not important.Mar 22 01:50
PetoKrausbrbMar 22 01:50
oiaohmIts one of the most important benchmark systems.Mar 22 01:50
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oiaohmWhere else can you test kernel operations in a 100 percent repeatable way.Mar 22 01:51
_Hicham_1i heard that intel guys managed to get fedora booting in 5 secondsMar 22 01:52
_Hicham_1did u read about that?Mar 22 01:52
oiaohmHow was stripping services.Mar 22 01:53
oiaohmAnd fast boot patches that are not mainline yet.Mar 22 01:53
oiaohmIn theory the init process should be able to start inside 1 secound of kernel init.Mar 22 01:53
_Hicham_1did u read the article in lwn?Mar 22 01:54
oiaohmI directly folllow the fast boot sub tree of the Linux kernel.Mar 22 01:57
_Hicham_1why the patches from the Intel engineers weren't merged?Mar 22 01:58
oiaohmLot of work is need to make sure they are stable in all events.Mar 22 01:58
oiaohmThere were quite a few lets just by pass locks for now in the first patches.Mar 22 01:58
oiaohmSo locking structs and the like have to be corrected before applied to mainline.Mar 22 01:59
_Hicham_1I was really glad to hear thatMar 22 02:00
oiaohmYes its easy to do proff of consept.  Making the final product is the hard bit.Mar 22 02:00
_Hicham_1Windows is faster to bootMar 22 02:00
_Hicham_1overallMar 22 02:00
_Hicham_1that is what i remarkedMar 22 02:00
oiaohmWindows is faster for two reasons.Mar 22 02:00
oiaohmNumber one there complier optimises way better than gcc.Mar 22 02:01
oiaohmNumber two lot of stuff has been done on boot time profiling.Mar 22 02:01
Eruaranmy Kubuntu 9.04 boots pretty fastMar 22 02:01
oiaohmEruaran: its a snail to what it could be.Mar 22 02:01
oiaohmCurrent gcc has a fatail flaw.Mar 22 02:02
oiaohmld stage does no optimisation.Mar 22 02:02
oiaohmld/linking.Mar 22 02:02
_Hicham_1oiaohm : what if we use icc?Mar 22 02:02
oiaohmllvm releation to gcc does link time optimisation.Mar 22 02:02
oiaohmicc is not 100 percent gcc compadible.Mar 22 02:03
_Hicham_1have u ever tried to compile the kernel with icc?Mar 22 02:03
oiaohmNot advistable.Mar 22 02:03
oiaohmLinux kernel has a lot of gcc only stuff.Mar 22 02:04
oiaohmTo optimise stuff.Mar 22 02:04
oiaohmicc ends up slower than gccMar 22 02:04
_Hicham_1can we use llvm then to optimize during link time?Mar 22 02:05
oiaohmYes.Mar 22 02:08
_Hicham_1why it is not done then?Mar 22 02:09
oiaohmGood question.Mar 22 02:10
_Hicham_1do u have the answer?Mar 22 02:10
oiaohmMost distributions are sticking to the complier they know it seams.Mar 22 02:10
_Hicham_1i dont understandMar 22 02:10
_Hicham_1can u explain more?Mar 22 02:11
oiaohmThere is really no specal reason against using llvm.Mar 22 02:11
_Hicham_1is it a matter of compatibility?Mar 22 02:11
oiaohmOther than build scripts are design to ask for gcc first.Mar 22 02:11
oiaohmIts just a simple case of people using what they know.Mar 22 02:11
oiaohmIn 12 months time it most likely will not be important when gcc should get link time optimisation as well.Mar 22 02:12
_Hicham_1have u ever tried to use llvm with the kernel?Mar 22 02:12
_Hicham_1i mean to build itMar 22 02:12
_Hicham_1?Mar 22 02:12
oiaohmLinux kernel I have not tried llvm on.Mar 22 02:12
_Hicham_1u dont have time to?Mar 22 02:13
oiaohmI have a rule with my Linux kernel when it working right leave it alone.Mar 22 02:14
oiaohm  << llvm has a huge effect on memory usage of  C++ programs.Mar 22 02:14
_Hicham_1does it support automatic garbage colletion?Mar 22 02:16
oiaohmTypeMar 22 02:17
oiaohmof automatic garbage collection.Mar 22 02:17
_Hicham_1without altering performance?Mar 22 02:18
oiaohmAccurate Garbage Collection used in llvm is more complex on the complier.  Since at run time is not really garbage collectionMar 22 02:18
oiaohmallocation and free statements.   It takes less cpu time because most of the work of the garbage collection was done at built time.Mar 22 02:18
_Hicham_1garbage collection at build time?Mar 22 02:19
oiaohmYepMar 22 02:20
oiaohmInstead of runtimeMar 22 02:20
_Hicham_1that is pretty powerfulMar 22 02:21
_Hicham_1java is fucked thenMar 22 02:21
oiaohmJava to native code in not fucked.Mar 22 02:22
oiaohmAs complier improve the advantages of jit will reduce.Mar 22 02:23
_Hicham_1it is fucked thenMar 22 02:23
_Hicham_1since memory management is one of the things that attracts programmersMar 22 02:24
_Hicham_1if u give them automatic memory managementMar 22 02:24
_Hicham_1while retaining full performance of native codeMar 22 02:24
oiaohmllvm is a code rewriter as well.Mar 22 02:24
oiaohmWhen gcc gets link time optmistaion as well less time programmers will have to spend optimising for speed.Mar 22 02:25
_Hicham_1is there a benchmark for code compiled with gcc vs llvm?Mar 22 02:25
oiaohmThe interesting bench mark I cannot find what is a C++ bench.Mar 22 02:31
oiaohmOther problem is most benchmarks don't show the linktime optimisation effect.Mar 22 02:32
oiaohmYes gcc can beat llvm slightly when everything is in a single file.Mar 22 02:32
_Hicham_1i mean, a known program such as firefox, compiled with and without llvmMar 22 02:32
_Hicham_1what would be best?Mar 22 02:32
oiaohmllvmMar 22 02:32
_Hicham_1better than pgo?Mar 22 02:33
oiaohmportland group would still be faster.Mar 22 02:33
_Hicham_1on linux?Mar 22 02:33
oiaohmReason it has optimisations like gcc can do in a single file.Mar 22 02:33
oiaohmDone accross the complete application.Mar 22 02:33
oiaohmOn Linux _Hicham_1Mar 22 02:34
_Hicham_1can we compile firefox with portland's group?Mar 22 02:34
oiaohmIf you buy portland group and using gcc emulation yes.Mar 22 02:34
_Hicham_1have u tested that?Mar 22 02:35
oiaohmBest result you can get is a evil long process out the the open source.Mar 22 02:35
oiaohmUse llvm to merge application into one huge single c or c++ file.Mar 22 02:36
oiaohmThen process gcc over that file.Mar 22 02:36
oiaohmAnd pray gcc don't crash.Mar 22 02:36
oiaohmI have done that on a few items.  Firefox is down right scary.  Watched 8 gb of ram disappear.Mar 22 02:37
oiaohminto gccMar 22 02:37
_Hicham_18gb of ram?Mar 22 02:38
oiaohmYes complier using 8gb of ram to process stuff out _Hicham_1Mar 22 02:38
_Hicham_1wowMar 22 02:40
_Hicham_1pretty scaryMar 22 02:40
_Hicham_1what about llvm?Mar 22 02:40
*tessier needs to learn more about llvmMar 22 02:57
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*mib_6phd9a (i=44e625da@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellMar 22 03:23 one's ever here when I visit.  That's what I get for living at the other side of the world.Mar 22 03:24
_Hicham_1hi thereMar 22 03:25
mib_6phd9aChris Day here, just checking in to see if there's a conversation going.Mar 22 03:25
mib_6phd9aHi Hicham_1!  There's someone here!Mar 22 03:25
mib_6phd9aIt's 8:30pm where I am.Mar 22 03:26
_Hicham_1yesMar 22 03:26
_Hicham_1where r u?Mar 22 03:26
mib_6phd9aSadly, I have nothing interesting to add to any conversations, I generally just read them. (I'm in Arizona, USAMar 22 03:27
_Hicham_1u can add whatever u wantMar 22 03:28
mib_6phd9aWhenever I have time off work I try to check here to see if there's a coversation going.  I usually just get to read the archived chats.Mar 22 03:28
mib_6phd9aOops that should have been "conversation"...Mar 22 03:29
mib_6phd9aI'd much rather read than comment...Mar 22 03:29
mib_6phd9aBye for now...Mar 22 03:31
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oiaohm_Hicham_1 llvm alone not that scary.   Its all the optimisation processing gcc can do and its memory leaks that end up at the 8 gb mark.Mar 22 03:49
oiaohmAbout 1 GB should be enough if stuff don't leak _Hicham_1Mar 22 03:50
_Hicham_11 GB for firefox?Mar 22 04:15
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yuhongI finally reviewed the IRC logs and realize why I did not get any response.Mar 22 04:42
yuhongI think it is related to trolling.Mar 22 04:42
oiaohmFirst time I have seen you I think yuhongMar 22 04:43
yuhongoiaohm: No, I was on IRC long before you have seen me.Mar 22 04:44
oiaohmI was meaning putting a message in here yuhongMar 22 04:45
yuhongOn the matter of laptop gifting, I think the key thing is the conditions of the giftMar 22 04:45
oiaohmNot really yuhongMar 22 04:46
oiaohmTaking gifts by nature can introduce bias.Mar 22 04:46
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oiaohmKey thing is being truthful about taking gifts.Mar 22 04:47
oiaohmO well warped mood.  A Riddle with many different answers.  When is a path not a path and a door not a door and a key not a key?Mar 22 04:55
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schestowitzHeyMar 22 07:12
oiaohmHi schestowitzMar 22 07:24
oiaohmA Riddle with many different answers.  When is a path not a path and a door not a door and a key not a key?Mar 22 07:24
schestowitzGo ahead.Mar 22 07:25
oiaohmOne as when its on a map.Mar 22 07:26
schestowitzI c.......Mar 22 07:29
schestowitzIBM bid reportedly held up by due diligence < >Mar 22 07:29
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schestowitzMicrosoft uses the press and bloggers whom it bribes to set a consensus where Windows7 is the naked emperor and you must love it: 22 08:14
schestowitzCoverage in Vista in the past week: 3; 'Windows 7': 12Mar 22 08:15
schestowitzTake home message: Forget the present. Think about the future. Vapourware Vapourware Vapourware Vapourware.Mar 22 08:15
schestowitzhhhmmmm.... Microsoft not a sponsor here: But it uses it to corrupt 'open source' nonethelesssMar 22 08:21
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schestowitzTwo bad companies join forces. "Coke has teamed up with Microsoft to give away three million Microsoft points for free to Xbox Live users. " < >Mar 22 08:28
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schestowitzMicrosoft shuts Adcenter Analytics  < >Mar 22 09:13
schestowitzOh! The Microsoft talking points unleashed by it's shill Preston Gralla: " Google is following in Microsoft's monopoly footsteps"Mar 22 09:13
schestowitzClassic. Off Microsoft's books...delivered by it's loyal shill, Gralla.Mar 22 09:13
schestowitzGralla's posting pattern: anti-Google, anti-Google, anti-Linux, pro-Vista7, anti-Google, anti-Linux....... he's worse than EnderleMar 22 09:15
oiaohmGralla there is not much I can do to take a person like him out.Mar 22 09:16
oiaohmOther than hope his funding drys up.Mar 22 09:16
schestowitzHe's in IDGMar 22 09:16
schestowitzThey are paid by MicrosoftMar 22 09:16
schestowitzSJVN is the only person then not toxicated by with biasMar 22 09:16
schestowitzMoney at 'work': U.S. taxpayers funding Microsoft campus bridge < >; US taxpayers to build Microsoft a bridge < >Mar 22 09:22
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trmanco 22 11:01
trmancowe can't even see porn for free nowMar 22 11:01
trmancoPlayboy Posts Unedited Back Issues Online, for FreeMar 22 11:02
trmanco"Through a partnership between Microsoft and Bondi Digital Publishing, Playboy Enterprises has put 53 back issues of Playboy on the Web, viewable through Microsoft's Silverlight viewer. "Mar 22 11:02
trmancomicrosoft goes after porn addicts nowMar 22 11:02
schestowitzMiguel de Icaza bragged about itMar 22 11:05
schestowitzWatch his blogMar 22 11:05
trmanco...Mar 22 11:07
oiaohmI hope tomtom wins case against MS.Mar 22 11:11
oiaohmMight get MS out of the idea that Patents will save them.Mar 22 11:12
oiaohmAnd them seeing them as loaded guns pointed at them.Mar 22 11:12
zer0c00l" microsoft goes after porn addicts now" M$ itself a seductive wh0re :PMar 22 11:15
schestowitzzer0c00l: Microsoft has a proven record of using sex to sell. I have examples.Mar 22 11:19
oiaohmYou would not have the one with the lady with privates covered by cd in your collection schestowitzMar 22 11:21
oiaohmWhen computer mags really controling ad content.Mar 22 11:22
schestowitzoiaohm: I don't think I saw that oneMar 22 11:33
schestowitzMaybe it requires Silver Lies ;-)Mar 22 11:33
oiaohmIts 1983 about.  Yes I read some really old mags at one point.Mar 22 11:35
oiaohmIt got confustated when I was in high school.Mar 22 11:37
trmancozer0c00l, :pMar 22 11:57
schestowitzoiaohm: the magazine of the Microsoft wares? (confiscated)Mar 22 11:58
oiaohmIt was the ad Lady was basically nude bar correctly place arm and correctly placed cd.Mar 22 12:00
oiaohmBasically the is no way you would get that into a general computer mag of today.Mar 22 12:00
oiaohm << So how I think we are getting too smart for our own good.Mar 22 12:00
oiaohmAustralia uses Active Area Dinial Systems instead of mine field on the battle field all ready.Mar 22 12:02
oiaohmBasically walk into the area have automatic guns target and fire on you.Mar 22 12:05
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_Hicham_1Hi All!Mar 22 12:06
oiaohmHi _Hicham_1Mar 22 12:07
schestowitzHey, _Hicham_1 Mar 22 12:09
_Hicham_1how r u doing?Mar 22 12:12
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EruaranhiMar 22 12:42
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schestowitzHeyMar 22 13:17
trmanco 22 13:19
trmancohaha, funnyMar 22 13:19
trmanco -> finally a good non newbie  tutorialMar 22 13:21
*schestowitz disinterested in Linux fanboyismMar 22 13:25
schestowitz*Linus, not LinuxMar 22 13:25
trmancoit's not fanboyismMar 22 13:26
trmancofanboys are the kind of people that if you say something negative about what they like, they will punch you in the faceMar 22 13:27
trmancoenthusiast would be a better wordMar 22 13:28
trmancobblMar 22 13:28
schestowitzYeah.Mar 22 13:29
schestowitzI didn't read it carefully, but those posts that glorify Linus are kind of petty sometimesMar 22 13:29
schestowitzThe operating system is the work of so manyMar 22 13:29
oiaohmLinus is known for his means to start and end flame wars.Mar 22 13:31
oiaohmYes I do mean start.  Some of the most famous in the Linux mailing list were started by him.Mar 22 13:31
EruaranI do that as a source of amusementMar 22 13:35
schestowitzoiaohm: he views it as humour, I guess.Mar 22 13:38
oiaohmNormally it keyboard in mouth.Mar 22 13:39
oiaohmLike making a mistake of critising C++Mar 22 13:39
oiaohmThat turned into a multi month debate.Mar 22 13:39
schestowitzKY Election Officials Arrested, Charged With 'Changing Votes at E-Voting Machines' < >Mar 22 13:42
schestowitzDoes it say in whose favour they tilted it?Mar 22 13:43
oiaohm 22 13:44
schestowitzoiaohm:  Last week the server did about 300 SQL/ops per second, so we /really/ needed to take it offline and rethink. The host is happy enough with the changes we made. I applied some caching, so it's down to just over 100 SQL/ops per second now. I think we outgrew Groklaw a while ago.Mar 22 13:47
oiaohmYep caching of some form was required.Mar 22 13:47
schestowitzBoycott Novell keeps growing and I discover about journalists who lurk there (they tell me) even if they don't comment or reference it. I think the name makes them too reluctant to link to it. Imagine linking from academic work to stuff that's called "boycott {anything}"Mar 22 13:48
schestowitzThe issues is that inbound links leads to greater visibility and lacking an image that's easy to link to, this may prove hard. Diversity/pluralism in sources too is needed but I cross-ref for speed most of the timeMar 22 13:49
EruaranThey can link to your sourcesMar 22 13:49
schestowitzNasty picture there with the snake, but there are uglier onesMar 22 13:50
schestowitzPythons can devours adult humans tooMar 22 13:50
schestowitzAnacondas -- easily.Mar 22 13:50
schestowitzEruaran: yes, that's what they do. Wikipedia is a similar storyMar 22 13:50
schestowitzAcademic forbid using Wikipedia as a source, so people skip to "References". We have some links in Wikipedia too, but I noticed that over time they get changed ('ironed out')Mar 22 13:51
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_Hicham_1oiaohm : are u still here?Mar 22 14:01
oiaohmYepMar 22 14:04
schestowitzHey, _Hicham_1.Mar 22 14:20
schestowitz_Hicham_1: do you think BN should change the theme? Me and others in IRC discussed it yesterday and looked at themes. It was decided at the end that it's better not to change. Shane is also pretty much in favour of tweaking the existing one, but I'm not so sure.Mar 22 14:28
_Hicham_1Roy : the theme should be changedMar 22 14:37
_Hicham_1also, the site must reorganizedMar 22 14:38
_Hicham_1i think that it is pretty confusingMar 22 14:39
_Hicham_1the site have grown to be more than a Novell issueMar 22 14:43
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_Hicham_1no one  is in hereMar 22 15:01
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*schestowitz does things around the house todayMar 22 15:10
schestowitz_Hicham_1: agreed. I will need to index the material and organise by topic/timelineMar 22 15:13
schestowitzI'll use the wikiMar 22 15:13
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_Hicham_1Roy : the wiki is great ideaMar 22 15:39
schestowitzI'll check WordPress extensions dirstMar 22 16:01
schestowitzThere might be something to pull related posts and make sense of them based on categories.Mar 22 16:01
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_Hicham_1I dont know about wordpressMar 22 16:18
_Hicham_1I use DrupalMar 22 16:18
schestowitzI'll need to find a new way to manage the siteMar 22 16:42
schestowitzI am upgrading two blogs todayMar 22 16:42
schestowitzBut for BN I'll need to manually do the index in a Wiki and then link to it.Mar 22 16:43
schestowitzWP 2.7 is really nice. I am upgrading the third Web site now. Maybe you can see it on that CMS test drive site...  familiarise yourself with the new admin panel. Installation now is super simple. File management too.Mar 22 16:45
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_Hicham_1the channel is quiet todayMar 22 18:50
_Hicham_1weirdMar 22 18:50
Balrog_I'm hereMar 22 19:08
schestowitzI'm backMar 22 19:16
schestowitz_Hicham_1: yes, sometimes it's quiet. I'm also not doing much but housework todayMar 22 19:17
_Hicham_1are u living alone?Mar 22 19:20
_Hicham_1no one to help around?Mar 22 19:20
schestowitzYes.Mar 22 19:20
Balrog_I'm hereMar 22 19:21
_Hicham_1BN is now a big source of informationMar 22 19:21
_Hicham_1but be careful Roy, someone may try to kill uMar 22 19:22
schestowitzMy mail is not getting through right now. Hasn't for about 2 hours. Could back mail server lag :-SMar 22 19:38
Balrog_hope not ddosMar 22 19:39
Balrog_:/Mar 22 19:39
schestowitzHTTP works wellMar 22 19:39
schestowitzIt's too early to ask the hostMar 22 19:39
Balrog_hm ok.Mar 22 19:39
Balrog_ping the mail serverMar 22 19:40
Balrog_do you have ssh access?Mar 22 19:40
schestowitzNoMar 22 19:40
schestowitzIt's not bouncing eitherMar 22 19:40
Balrog_:/Mar 22 19:40
Balrog_ssh access is very usefulMar 22 19:40
schestowitzI have a quota warning, but that's not itMar 22 19:40
schestowitz"Server Load  2.85 (4 cpus)"Mar 22 19:41
Balrog_hm.Mar 22 19:42
schestowitzvia FTP, nothing's there.Mar 22 19:44
Balrog_normal?Mar 22 19:44
schestowitzI'll make some space just in caseMar 22 19:47
schestowitzThe mail server seems to have been down for 3 hours or something like that unless I am doing something wrong (nothing was changed on my account). I'll admit this is so rare that I can't recall it ever occurring before. Mar 22 19:58
Balrog_hrm.Mar 22 19:59
schestowitz"I am working on a few issues with blueberry at the moment, so have shutdown exim as a precaution, any email will be queued and delivered once its all up and running again. My apologies for any inconvenience caused."Mar 22 20:08
schestowitzSo they know about it. But wow. You have no idea how rare this is, and no mail will be lost, either.Mar 22 20:09
Balrog_I see.Mar 22 20:09
schestowitzIn 4 years I can think of maybe 2 occasions when the mail server was no there. And I poll every 60 seconds on the main account.Mar 22 20:09
Balrog_they're not using sendmail :)Mar 22 20:09
schestowitzNo.Mar 22 20:09
schestowitzbrbMar 22 20:10
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trmanco 22 20:20
MinceRr4wrMar 22 20:33
trmancowhat??Mar 22 20:37
MinceRr4wr!Mar 22 20:43
trmanco:|Mar 22 20:43
MinceR>:3Mar 22 20:43
trmancorawrMar 22 20:43
schestowitztrmanco: BN does moreMar 22 20:45
schestowitz" Linux users make up 34.47% and Mac users are 9.19%. Here's the full list:Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   1. Windows: 55.11%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   2. Linux: 34.47%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   3. Macintosh: 9.19%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   4. iPhone: 0.45%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   5. Unknown: 0.35%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   6. iPod: 0.14%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   7. FreeBSD: 0.08%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   8. SunOS: 0.07%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz   9. Android: 0.05%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz  10. SymbianOS: 0.03%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz  11. OpenBSD: 0.01%Mar 22 20:46
schestowitz"Mar 22 20:46
Balrog_those are people who go to tuxradar?Mar 22 20:49
Balrog_not surprisingMar 22 20:49
schestowitzYes, similar in BNMar 22 20:54
schestowitzFor mMrach 2009:Mar 22 20:55
schestowitz"Windows81095044.5 %Mar 22 20:55
schestowitzLinux72198839.6 %Mar 22 20:55
schestowitzUnknown18651710.2 %Mar 22 20:55
schestowitzMacintosh953045.2 %Mar 22 20:55
schestowitzBSD22400.1 %"Mar 22 20:55
Balrog_those numbers are all mixed :/Mar 22 21:00
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schestowitzSearch Google Images By Color < >Mar 22 21:08
MinceRi prefer tineye.comMar 22 21:09
schestowitzGNU/Linux sub-notebooks now selling for $200: (TomTop sells 7" Xburst Netbooks for USD209)Mar 22 21:09
schestowitzHahaha. "[Via Google Translate: Richard Stollman. In 1990, he announced a crusade against Microsoft and several other whale computer business. He cracks the sites where the proposed purchase new software. And then handed out to the people free.]" 22 21:10
schestowitzТaking the War against Terror to a New Level... < >Mar 22 21:13
_Hicham_2Roy : u may be reported as a terroristMar 22 21:15
_Hicham_2after being reported as a child molesterMar 22 21:15
schestowitzIf only it was true...Mar 22 21:15
schestowitzNever been labels (libeled) a "terrorist" before and I could probably sue those who accused me and other Linux advocates from USENET of being "pedophiles"Mar 22 21:16
schestowitzOne of the guys there, a German, threatened to sue the bastards who 'planted' such libel about him.Mar 22 21:17
schestowitzAnti-war protestors labeled terrorists: 22 21:18
schestowitzThere was another example last year. twitter wrote about it.Mar 22 21:18
schestowitz10 Easy Ways to Be Labeled a “Terrorist” by the Government < >Mar 22 21:18
schestowitz 22 21:19
schestowitz"When United Kingdom authorities used anti-terrorism laws against Iceland last October, a group called In Defence was formed. The group’s website received a great deal of international attention for its quirky and imaginative use of photographs to highlight the idea that calling Icelanders terrorists could hardly be a less accurate description."Mar 22 21:19
schestowitzMore 'open source' that's not: When hacker !=cracker and OSS was software, code...Mar 22 21:21
schestowitzSomething called "the Open Source Software Institute" wrote this? "Open Source Software Institute" ??Mar 22 21:34
*schestowitz tells TiemannMar 22 21:36
schestowitzNow what it sounds like: Linux will never rule the desktop < > Mar 22 22:01
_Hicham_2this poster is just crazyMar 22 22:04
_Hicham_2he is missing a lot of pointsMar 22 22:04
_Hicham_2but it is fun thoughMar 22 22:04
_Hicham_2i like to read such funny articlesMar 22 22:04
schestowitz"I can't wait for the year the desktop dies!" "The good thing is Microsoft will probably die with it!"Mar 22 22:07
schestowitzDocument Freedom Day is coming... Kieler Document Freedom Day < >Mar 22 22:09
trmanco 22 22:10
schestowitzDid you edit?Mar 22 22:16
*bughunter2 ( has left #boycottnovellMar 22 22:16
trmancoschestowitz, noMar 22 22:19
*PeterFA has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 22 22:26
schestowitzParsix GNU/Linux  2.0 is out: 22 22:30
schestowitzLoads of new GNU/Linux releases in recent days:Scientific, Absolute, Denix, Incognito, LinuxKidX, Clonezilla, Igelle, K-DEMar, OpenGEU, Ututo, GParted, ParsixMar 22 22:33
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schestowitzNew funny bizniz from another Novell: Rick Novell < >Mar 22 22:47
schestowitzSeems like lies about RMS:  Al Gore 'invented' the Internet... or.... he never said that, but people have spun that.Mar 22 22:50
*Balrog__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Mar 22 23:04
schestowitzAsa sheds light on Firefox security disinformation: pwn2own confusion < >Mar 22 23:05
schestowitzMaking life hard(er): Fedora 10 goes Minstrel, wifi users rejoice! < > "I just got around to trying a 2.6.29 Fedora kernel the other day and noticed that it still wasn’t on, but John Linville was kind enough to fix that not even a day later, so you now have an option to get Minstrel on Fedora 10 without compiling your own kernel."Mar 22 23:11
schestowitzamarsh04: from your home town: 22 23:15
schestowitzHmmmm... BN is doing almost 4GB today and I don't know what's causing itMar 22 23:24
_Hicham_2quiet room todayMar 22 23:46
_Hicham_2nobody is talkingMar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2since there is no big talkersMar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2like oiaohmMar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2and balzacMar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2where r they?Mar 22 23:47
schestowitzI don't know.Mar 22 23:47
_Hicham_2i like this room when it is full of discussionMar 22 23:47
schestowitzTomorrow it'll be betterMar 22 23:47
schestowitzSundays are typically calm.Mar 22 23:48
schestowitzI also have lots for BN tomorrMar 22 23:48
schestowitzowMar 22 23:48
_Hicham_2Roy : we must do some marketing for this channel and the website alsoMar 22 23:48
schestowitzWhat do you have in mind?Mar 22 23:51
_Hicham_2no idea for the momentMar 22 23:51
_Hicham_2but I think that this channel should be promoted moreMar 22 23:51
schestowitzYou can promote ot recommend the site in places like OS News, LinuxToday, etc.Mar 22 23:51
schestowitz_Hicham_2: it's read by some people who are not here.Mar 22 23:52
_Hicham_2I knowMar 22 23:52
_Hicham_2as soon as I finish my website, I will put a link to itMar 22 23:52
schestowitzThanks!Mar 22 23:53
schestowitzWhen BN was young Shane promoted it by adding links to DiggMar 22 23:54
schestowitzThat was 2006Mar 22 23:54
_Hicham_2but it is still hard to convince people that Novell is doing sthg bad to LinuxMar 22 23:55
_Hicham_2it has done great job with LinuxMar 22 23:55
_Hicham_2second in corporate kernel contributions after redhatMar 22 23:55
schestowitzSome people don't know about Microsoft, eitherMar 22 23:56
_Hicham_2helped a lot in Compiz by providing XglMar 22 23:56
schestowitzWe need to oraganise the information cohesivekyMar 22 23:56
schestowitzFor Novell tooMar 22 23:56
schestowitzIn icluding its crimesMar 22 23:56
_Hicham_2that is what i saidMar 22 23:56
schestowitzFraud and the likeMar 22 23:56
schestowitzFew people know about itMar 22 23:56
_Hicham_2organizing is the keyMar 22 23:56
schestowitzI make the material firstMar 22 23:57
schestowitzCollected from some old bitsMar 22 23:57
_Hicham_2both in chronology and topicsMar 22 23:57
schestowitzThe time will come when I can organise moreMar 22 23:57
schestowitz_Hicham_2: yesMar 22 23:57
_Hicham_2the site is becoming bigger and biggerMar 22 23:57
_Hicham_2u should start organizing it from now onMar 22 23:58
_Hicham_2the Novell-Microsoft Deal was just a sparkleMar 22 23:58
_Hicham_2now it is a website about the truthMar 22 23:59
schestowitzYes, I knowMar 22 23:59
schestowitzSome time this yearMar 22 23:59
schestowitzI meant about organisingMar 22 23:59
_Hicham_2I knowMar 22 23:59
schestowitzTruth != consensusMar 22 23:59
schestowitzIt rarely is.Mar 22 23:59
schestowitzAlso in politicsMar 22 23:59

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