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IRC: #bocottnovell @ FreeNode: May 5th, 2009 - Part 1


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schestowitzNSW (Australia) Didn’t Choose Free Software Because It Doesn’t Run Non-Free Software??? 05 00:24
the_mad_hatterThis is a bit off-topic, but it's interestingMay 05 00:34
the_mad_hatter 05 00:34
the_mad_hatterMedia Darwinism: Which Sites Will Survive?May 05 00:34
oiaohmschestowitz: its getting worse.  Nsw EC (electrial comission) is moving to .net windows and orcale from java orcale and hp OS.May 05 00:46
oiaohmThey only have 6 coders total.May 05 00:46
oiaohmAnyone else expecting problems.May 05 00:46
schestowitzthe_mad_hatter: slimmest and fittestMay 05 00:46
schestowitzI can carry on for quite some time; might have to work a little more for income thoughMay 05 00:47
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, that older scamMay 05 00:47
schestowitzSee LinuxToday commentsMay 05 00:47
schestowitzThose are the ones I saw anywayMay 05 00:47
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_Hicham_Hi All!May 05 01:02
Balrog_Hi _Hicham_May 05 01:02
_Hicham_Balrog_ : any unicode problems again?May 05 01:03
Balrog_not at this pointMay 05 01:03
Balrog_though I'm annoyed with people using Pagemaker when Scribus is so much betterMay 05 01:03
Balrog_Adobe doesn't even support PM anymoreMay 05 01:03
schestowitzMicrosoft's ODF 'Support' is a Scam: 05 01:07
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_Hicham_MS never supported and will never support ODFMay 05 01:14
_Hicham_I hate doc filesMay 05 01:14
Balrog_I hate doc files tooMay 05 01:17
Balrog_though I hate docx a lot moreMay 05 01:17
_Hicham_fuck docx, fuck doc, fuck microsoftMay 05 01:26
schestowitzBillG lives you, _Hicham_ May 05 01:27
Balrog_I'm stuck using .doc for interoperability purposes. :(May 05 01:27
_Hicham_fuck interop tooMay 05 01:28
Balrog_that's the point of odfMay 05 01:28
Balrog_but MS won't implement itMay 05 01:28
_Hicham_MS don't want Linux, and Linux don't wan't it eitherMay 05 01:28
_Hicham_MS pays Novell, to do soMay 05 01:28
_Hicham_as alwaysMay 05 01:29
_Hicham_Novell, the beloved company of schestowitzMay 05 01:29
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oiaohmODF scam is a repeat of the RTF scamMay 05 01:37
oiaohmExcept MS forget something.  In the RTF scam they were the cheepest Office suit in the market.May 05 01:38
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Balrog_ << funnyMay 05 01:40
Balrog_oiaohm: RTF scam? URL?May 05 01:40
twitterRTF was supposed to be an "open" exchange format.  It was never fully published, fully featured or really used by M$ Office.  It was the OOXML of the 90s.May 05 01:42
twitterI remember because I saw people fall for it at the time.May 05 01:42
twitterHere's the wiki 05 01:43
oiaohmRTF was the first attempt at a unified document format.May 05 01:45
oiaohmDone so MS gained market.May 05 01:45
twitterand, Office was not the cheapest Word Processor of note on the market.  According to the wiki RTF was made to compete with Tex.  It should be obvious which of the two was better.May 05 01:46
oiaohmMS works suit was cheeper.May 05 01:46
oiaohmAnd it was used in the same kinds of way a office suit is used today.May 05 01:47
oiaohmEveryone forgets ms precurser to Office.May 05 01:47
Balrog_ms works was always a piece of junkMay 05 01:48
twitterWorks was a cheap sucker package meant to draw people into Word and Excel, which were sold as separate products at the time.May 05 01:49
twitterM$ dumped it on the market.May 05 01:49
oiaohmYep.May 05 01:49
oiaohmAnd it worked.May 05 01:49
twitterI'm shocked that ebook readers use RTF instead of Tex.May 05 01:49
oiaohmMS does not have the cheap sucker package to upsell from.May 05 01:49
oiaohmUnless you can the MS trial office that.May 05 01:50
oiaohmcan/callMay 05 01:50
twitterThe dumping did not work so well as bribery and strategic dumping, giving "free" software to business students and other "leaders"May 05 01:50
twitterTex, LaTex and others are still alive and far superior.May 05 01:51
twitterRTF is a complete waste of time.May 05 01:51
twitterHa, the bastards also meant to confuse the DCA market 05 01:52
twitterThat worked well.May 05 01:52
_Hicham_vive LaTeXMay 05 01:52
twitterThose are parallels to OOXML fraud that I did not notice before.May 05 01:53
twitterIf you want your writing to look good on paper, you will use LaTex.May 05 01:53
twitterKDE has some nifty utilities for it.  kbibtex, which works as a reference database, and kile, which is a great editor.May 05 01:55
oiaohmBasically history is repeating and most people don't even notice.May 05 01:55
twitterA place where the parallel breaks down, however, is that Open Office is easier to use than M$ Office.May 05 01:56
oiaohmMS Office has become word perfect.May 05 01:56
schestowitzMicrosoft’s Twitter AstroTurf Continues May 05 01:56
oiaohmfrom the time of RTFMay 05 01:56
schestowitztwitter sold out to the Vole :--)May 05 01:56
oiaohmThe chairs have moved but the game has not.May 05 01:57
twitterWord Perfect was much better than Word ever will be.May 05 01:57
oiaohmWord Perfect also tried crappy supporting of RTF to save themselves.May 05 01:57
twitterHas Twitter sold out or is it being abused as all communications methods are by M$?May 05 01:58
oiaohmAs I say its a repeat in more ways than 1.May 05 01:58
twitterRTF "support" was crappy in every word processor by design, just as ISO OOXML will be.May 05 01:58
Balrog_by MS? explain ...May 05 01:59
Balrog_RTF support always was badMay 05 01:59
schestowitzLyx is good too, I hardly used kileMay 05 01:59
Balrog_and yes, I used to use WordPerfect for MacMay 05 01:59
Balrog_probably the best word processor everMay 05 01:59
twitterM$ abuses Slashdot, mail lists, even Boycott Novell's comments.  No communications medium is safe from their malice.May 05 01:59
Balrog_twitter: url?May 05 02:00
twitterRoy just did a story on twitter.May 05 02:00
oiaohmI find the insert feature of latex into open office at times handy.May 05 02:00
twitterthe rest is history.May 05 02:00
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oiaohmI know for sure that is not going to open in MS office.May 05 02:01
twittermail list abuse 05 02:01
Balrog_that's from '98May 05 02:01
twitter 05 02:02
twitternice how death threats come up at the top of the results, isn't it?May 05 02:02
Balrog_hehMay 05 02:03
oiaohmMS shills are not a new thing.May 05 02:04
oiaohmDifference is now they have moved them into PR companies so it cannot be traced extactly back to them.May 05 02:04
twitterhere's a personal collection of Slashdot trolls 05 02:04
oiaohmFirst MS shill I hit was in 1995May 05 02:04
oiaohmWhen I stated about a Microsoft crash flaw in Internet explorer.May 05 02:05
twitterYou can see what G. Michaels does here and in his smear blog.May 05 02:05
twitterIn his latest dribble he congratulates me on getting a job and tells me that I'm silly for thinking M$ would try to keep me from one.May 05 02:06
twitteryes, he cites M$'s inability to blacklist me as evidence of them not trying, as if his persistent harassment did not exist.May 05 02:07
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twitterRoy has posted the story of Boycott Microsoft, where a M$ rep called to get the blogger fired.  So you can add phone calls to their list of abuse.May 05 02:09
twitterAlmost all communications methods were used to attack Peter Gutmann, who wrote an early report on Vista problems.May 05 02:10
twitterGeorge Ou and Ed Bott wrote several pieces for their respective Wintel rags.  They wrote and called his boss in an effort to get him fired, and so on and so forth.May 05 02:11
twitterYou can imagine that astroturfers took up the talking points all over the web.May 05 02:11
twitterThe end result of all of this bullshit is that M$ has zero credibility.May 05 02:12
Balrog_yes. except that there are still people that are convinced that MS is okayMay 05 02:12
twitterWhen people say good things about anything M$, you know they are either ignorant or lying.May 05 02:12
twitterThere are almost no ignorant fans left.May 05 02:13
twitterVista's failure has demoralized them all.May 05 02:13
Balrog_I know some ignorant people who don't really cardMay 05 02:13
Balrog_care *May 05 02:13
Balrog_they say things about OOo that were true maybe in 2.xMay 05 02:13
twitterright, so they will never go online and express themselves.May 05 02:13
twitterif they don't care, they won't speak up.May 05 02:14
twitterso those who speak up are generally lying.May 05 02:14
Balrog_twitter: who's this 'sockdisclosure' person?May 05 02:16
Balrog_oh ... they dont speak up unless you pull them in.May 05 02:16
twittersockdisclosure is just another nym the astroturfers use.May 05 02:17
Balrog_oh.May 05 02:17
twitterthey decided to target me specifically.  it is impossible for me to say who they really are.  probably a subgroup of WEMay 05 02:17
twitterthey are not very bright, as usual.May 05 02:18
BalrogobviouslyMay 05 02:19
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schestowitzSlashdot told me MS marketing people roam SlashdotMay 05 02:22
Balrogschestowitz: how?May 05 02:23
twitteryou don't need Slashdot to tell you that, but it's nice that they know.  Once again, I have to scold Slashdot for not publishing what they know.May 05 02:23
schestowitzAnyway, I'm tiredMay 05 02:24
schestowitzI'll do more posts when I get upMay 05 02:24
twitterGood night!May 05 02:24
Balrognight!May 05 02:26
BalrogI'm going tooMay 05 02:27
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the_mad_hatterYou have to wonder who was behind this:May 05 02:35
the_mad_hatter 05 02:35
the_mad_hatterApple and Google Ties Investigated vy FTCMay 05 02:35
the_mad_hattersorry meant "by FTC"May 05 02:35
twitterno need to wonder.  Wired did the big write up months agoMay 05 02:35
twitterit will take a while to clean the Bush out of Washington's offices.May 05 02:36
twitterM$ execs go everywhere and not a peep from the FTC.  Now they look into Apple?May 05 02:37
twitterOh yeah, big bad monopoly Apple.May 05 02:37
twitterHere you go, the ongoing M$ plot to kill Google. 05 02:40
the_mad_hatterThanks for the link. Keeping track of these bastards means a lot of reading.May 05 02:42
twitterRoy is doing a better job of it than I am at the moment.May 05 02:43
twitterhe has taken the time to dive deep into board members and other good information.May 05 02:43
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the_mad_hatterAgreed. He does a damned good job of it.May 05 02:43
twittertracking people helps to understand why companies do such stupid thingsMay 05 02:44
mib_nyvk49getting a job in this economy sucksMay 05 02:44
twitteroh yes it does.May 05 02:44
twitterit's been difficult for about 15 years.May 05 02:44
the_mad_hatterWell, technically they aren't stupid. After all, it's a way to make money. What they are is immoral.May 05 02:44
twitterno, it's stupid.  they have helped ruin the economy that makes their money worth anything.May 05 02:45
mib_nyvk49friend told me I should look at getting a job at canonical because they let you work remotelyMay 05 02:45
twitterget a job at any ethical company that will hire you.  good luck!May 05 02:46
mib_nyvk49(since I'm not in the uk, hadn't thought to apply before)May 05 02:46
mib_nyvk49guess what I saw?May 05 02:46
_Hicham_what did u saw?May 05 02:46
mib_nyvk49their jobs page lists Mono developersMay 05 02:46
twitterughMay 05 02:46
mib_nyvk49they are looking for devs experienced with GNOME and MonoMay 05 02:46
twitterwell, they do make extensive use of GnomeMay 05 02:47
twittergot link?May 05 02:47
mib_nyvk49yea, not surprised at all by gnomeMay 05 02:47
_Hicham_Mono developers for Canonical?May 05 02:47
mib_nyvk49yeaMay 05 02:47
mib_nyvk49hold on, lemme find a linkMay 05 02:47
mib_nyvk49gotta search for it againMay 05 02:48
_Hicham_I am not surprisedMay 05 02:48
_Hicham_Canonical loves MonoMay 05 02:48
twitterI'm surprised.  This mono lover says, " The two biggest Gnome based distros (Redhat and Canonical) don't do Mono development The biggest Mono adopters are .... Novell!  Surprise surprise! Sort of ironic since SuSE was traditionally the biggest KDE desktop..."May 05 02:49
twitter 05 02:50
mib_nyvk49 05 02:50
_Hicham_Ubuntu started to drift away from its philosophyMay 05 02:51
twitterIt's not damning.  You might want to hire someone who's worked with Mono, if only to eliminate it.May 05 02:52
twitterbasically, they are hiring up for their mobile pushMay 05 02:52
twitterand they are going with Gnome because it's what they know.May 05 02:53
mib_nyvk49yea,although not sure that fits with Online ServiceMay 05 02:53
mib_nyvk49unless it's some sort of cloud service I guessMay 05 02:53
twitterGPE was not bad five years ago and might still be nice.May 05 02:53
_Hicham_Canonical still doesn't contribute much to Linux ecosystemMay 05 02:55
mib_nyvk49seems like they are actively trying to change that thoughMay 05 02:55
mib_nyvk49and to be fair, mark funds it out of pocketMay 05 02:55
_Hicham_normalMay 05 02:55
mib_nyvk49that's pretty damn coolMay 05 02:55
_Hicham_Mark has got lots of moneyMay 05 02:55
mib_nyvk49so?May 05 02:55
mib_nyvk49he's using it to help push freedom softwareMay 05 02:56
mib_nyvk49that earns my respectMay 05 02:56
_Hicham_its company is not very profitable yetMay 05 02:56
mib_nyvk49give it time :)May 05 02:56
_Hicham_he started Ubuntu foundation, but no one contributedMay 05 02:57
twitterhe's not doing badly for someone who will mail CDs free of charge anywhere in the worldMay 05 02:57
_Hicham_sthg like SPIMay 05 02:57
twittermaking that profitable is amazing.May 05 02:57
_Hicham_I just see that he is doing things the old redhat wayMay 05 02:58
_Hicham_and keeping some apps closed sourceMay 05 02:58
twitterlike what?May 05 02:58
_Hicham_maloneMay 05 02:59
mib_nyvk49they do closed source?May 05 03:00
_Hicham_yesMay 05 03:00
_Hicham_the only noticeable thing they did is upstartMay 05 03:00
_Hicham_but arjan work ( the linux 5 seconds boot ) was based on original sysV initMay 05 03:01
mib_nyvk49that's disappointingMay 05 03:03
_Hicham_they said that clearlyMay 05 03:04
_Hicham_they are a packaging companyMay 05 03:04
_Hicham_not a contributing companyMay 05 03:04
_Hicham_and Mr Mark steels debian devsMay 05 03:04
mib_nyvk49who doyou work for?May 05 03:08
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mib_nyvk49need more places to apply for a jobMay 05 03:10
_Hicham_where do u live?May 05 03:10
mib_nyvk49I'd be willing to move, but currently virginiaMay 05 03:11
mib_nyvk49(USA)May 05 03:12
_Hicham_did u apply for old redhat?May 05 03:12
mib_nyvk49yeaMay 05 03:12
_Hicham_and?May 05 03:12
mib_nyvk49no luck yetMay 05 03:13
_Hicham_what are ur main skills?May 05 03:13
mib_nyvk49I've tinkered with gtkMay 05 03:13
mib_nyvk49desktop hacking is what I want to doMay 05 03:14
_Hicham_did u do anything useful with GTK?May 05 03:14
mib_nyvk49not reallyMay 05 03:15
twitterdo you know C?May 05 03:15
mib_nyvk49yeaMay 05 03:15
_Hicham_u should at least do sthg with itMay 05 03:16
_Hicham_they r not gonna hire just like thatMay 05 03:16
mib_nyvk49what do you guys hack on?May 05 03:18
twitterI don't right nowMay 05 03:20
twitterI've done research and device development, imaging and a little transport.May 05 03:21
twitterC and FORTRAN.May 05 03:21
mib_nyvk49you mean like gimp?May 05 03:21
twitterno, I used imaging librariesMay 05 03:21
twitterfor devices I was making.May 05 03:22
mib_nyvk49lucky enough to be able to write the code as free software? or no?May 05 03:22
twitterYes, and as public domain.  If you work for the government, your code is always public domain.May 05 03:24
mib_nyvk49ah coolMay 05 03:24
twitteror should be, thieves like to "own" itMay 05 03:24
twitterthey make BS business cases and split up what taxpayers paid for.May 05 03:24
twitterthen they try to sell it back.  most failMay 05 03:25
mib_nyvk49you looking for a job too? that's why not hacking on anything anymore? or just not busy at work?May 05 03:30
twitterI'm busy at work but it's not research.May 05 03:31
mib_nyvk49ahMay 05 03:32
mib_nyvk49what kind of government job do you have? military type stuff? or?May 05 03:38
mib_nyvk49if you could work for anyone you wanted, which company would you work for?May 05 03:41
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the_mad_hatterI've been thinking of getting back into programming. Haven't done much in the last ten years, been too busy.May 05 03:54
the_mad_hatterAnyone got a preference for a C IDE?May 05 04:03
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the_mad_hatterHum, here's an interesting article in Huffington Post by Larry Lessig:May 05 04:11
the_mad_hatter 05 04:11
the_mad_hatterBanks Think They "Own" Congress? Wrong -- We're Taking Congress BackMay 05 04:11
the_mad_hatterThat could really scare Microsoft, because they think they own congress as well.May 05 04:11
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twitterfor C, I like kateMay 05 04:51
the_mad_hatterKate? Never heard of it. Why do you like it?May 05 04:51
twitterkate and kdbgMay 05 04:52
twitterKate is KDE's text editor for code.  It has tabs, split screens, color coding and pretty good project management.May 05 04:52
twitterYou pick up where you left off.May 05 04:52
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the_mad_hatterHow does it run under Gnome?May 05 05:29
the_mad_hatterRoy, you around?May 05 05:38
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twitterI don't run gnome, so I can't tell you.  It should run just fine.  I mostly use E16.May 05 06:08
twitteroh, he's goneMay 05 06:08
twitterha ha.  The US stock market rallied but M$ could barely keep above $20.  They should sink right down on news of more layoffs.May 05 06:10
twitter 05 06:10
twitterHow do they expect to get Windows 7 out the door without people to finish it up and sell it?May 05 06:10
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schestowitz "Desirable skills and experience    * Python, Mono "            <<-It's a bit of a stretch to call it Ubuntu promoting Mono because it's mentioned onceMay 05 08:13
schestowitzCanonical's revenue is 20milMay 05 08:14
schestowitztwitter: they may actually RISE on layoiff newsMay 05 08:16
schestowitzMaybeMay 05 08:16
schestowitzRemember that layoffs are sometimes good news to INVESTORSMay 05 08:16
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kentmahi allMay 05 08:40
schestowitzHi, kentma May 05 08:59
schestowitztrmanco says COLA has been trolled a lot less recentlyMay 05 08:59
schestowitzI hope it's trueMay 05 08:59
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MinceRgeekingsMay 05 09:37
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schestowitzThe Reg has made a story from the whole Firefox controversy: 05 09:52
schestowitzushimitsudoki1 saw it coming.May 05 09:52
schestowitzAsempra is dead. 05 09:52
oiaohmFirefox extension conflits had to happen at some point.May 05 09:54
schestowitzResearchers demonstrate the dangers of using Windows by building a botnet: 05 09:55
schestowitzEU urges US to drop ICANN < >May 05 09:56
schestowitzI keep seeing reports about GooglappleMay 05 09:56
schestowitzWhat is the Mac loyals' rebuttal/defense?May 05 09:56
schestowitzBalrog_ ought to know.May 05 09:56
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MinceRthey'll start loving google, obviouslyMay 05 09:57
MinceRthey've already sacrificed a lot of their freedom, so why stop there?May 05 09:57
schestowitzoh cool. BN's Netcraft ranking is under 2000 nowMay 05 09:57
schestowitz1997th on the Web.May 05 09:57
schestowitzPhoronix is 3123thMay 05 09:58
schestowitzroughlydrafted 43,000thMay 05 09:59
taconeschestowitz: so you made the switch to the wiki ?May 05 10:02
taconehow to check the rank ?May 05 10:04
schestowitztacone: the toolbar or site checkerMay 05 10:13
schestowitzOIN Explains TomTom’s Settlement with Microsoft (and Other Patent News) < >May 05 10:13
schestowitzIs Jupiter Broadcasting’s Linux Action Show Anti-GNU/Linux? < >May 05 10:13
schestowitztacone: we need to do more work on the Wiki. I'll make lots of time to redo it next month, hopefully.May 05 10:13
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schestowitz 05 10:40
schestowitzPeter Dinham spreads BSA propaganda: 05 10:52
schestowitzSarah Palin?!?! < >May 05 10:54
schestowitzBlackBerry Outsells iPhone < >May 05 10:56
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schestowitzRedding does something sensible for a change: (EU Commissioner Pushes For Independent ICANN)May 05 11:00
zoobab01 05 11:01
schestowitzGeoengineering and the New Climate Denialism < >May 05 11:01
schestowitz"Microsoft and GE appreciate the leading role the EPO and the Boards of Appeal have played in establishing a reliable framework for patent protection of computer-implemented inven-tions. "May 05 11:03
schestowitzYou know about the GE-MS collaboation from last month, right?May 05 11:03
schestowitzDoes the FFII have  a page about GE?May 05 11:03
schestowitz 05 11:04
schestowitzDown from $40 to about $5May 05 11:05
schestowitzThen OBAMAABUSH robbed the American public to temporarily elevate the stocksMay 05 11:05
zoobab01IBM will soon be president of the USPTOMay 05 11:06
schestowitzI wrote about itMay 05 11:07
schestowitzbad news?May 05 11:07
schestowitzWell, they were bound to pick one of the monopolists (i.e. "IP" lovers)May 05 11:07
schestowitzMarshall Phelps is from IBM tooMay 05 11:07
zoobab01IBM = swpatMay 05 11:08
zoobab01they want swpat to have a competitive advantage over linuxMay 05 11:08
zoobab01come to us, we will protect youMay 05 11:09
schestowitzRMS: "Arlen Spector has become a Democrat, illustrating how  both the Democratic and Republican parties are becoming more right-wing."May 05 11:09
zoobab01"All computer programs have technical character in so far as they cause physical changes in the hardware." —IBM TBA EPO Decision T 1173/97May 05 11:09
zoobab01 05 11:09
schestowitzzoobab01: or "pay to join OINBM"May 05 11:09
zoobab01:-)May 05 11:09
zoobab01FFII should kick the FAT patent in court to test BilskiMay 05 11:09
schestowitzThey can come up with moreMay 05 11:10
zoobab01because the OIN hates subject matterMay 05 11:10
schestowitzJust change the systemMay 05 11:10
zoobab01OIN is IBMMay 05 11:10
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zoobab01Linux Foundation is IBMMay 05 11:10
schestowitz"Fighting patents one by one will never eliminate the danger of software patents, any more than swatting mosquitoes will eliminate malaria." --RMSMay 05 11:10
zoobab01sureMay 05 11:10
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schestowitzElsevier conspires with company to mislead the public: Merck Makes Phony Peer-Review Journal < >May 05 11:24
schestowitzI've just mailed RMS about MonoMay 05 11:25
schestowitzThe FDA's corruption makes its appearance again: 05 11:26
schestowitzBN did 12805 pages in the past 6 hours. I think it's a recordMay 05 11:27
oiaohmLinux Foundation and OIN are not just IBM zoobab01.May 05 11:30
oiaohmIBM is stuck on patents.  They make good money from patents on hardware design.   Yes they want to regulate not risk nuking the complete patent system.May 05 11:31
schestowitzMonopoly loves monopoly keeper. There's a surprise...May 05 11:35
oiaohmMind you IBM don't not make the money exactly the way most expect.  If you want to build something that breaches a IBM patent as long as you allow IBM to stick there brand and be a retailer  you are fine.May 05 11:44
oiaohmIts still making IBM good money.May 05 11:45
schestowitzFedora 10 on HP Mini 1000 < http://s206905281.onlinehome... >May 05 11:46
zoobab01oiaohm: look at the Linux Foundation patent pool, it is all IBMMay 05 11:47
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zoobab01I have also evidence that IBM is heavily involved in the Linux Foundation patent policyMay 05 11:47
oiaohmThere is some orcale in there zoobab01.  Remember IBM is the largest patent holder out there.May 05 11:48
zoobab01oiaohm: so what? their patents create liabilities for small companies like mineMay 05 11:48
oiaohmIBM also has the policy that open source can use there patents since its inside there usage policy.May 05 11:48
oiaohmSince open source can have IBM brand put on it.May 05 11:49
zoobab01oiaohm: it means that scritly speaking I have to waste my time complying with their stupid claimsMay 05 11:49
zoobab01FUCMay 05 11:49
zoobab01I don't produce open sourceMay 05 11:49
zoobab01so it does not concern meMay 05 11:49
schestowitzIBM has good PRMay 05 11:49 is freeMay 05 11:50
schestowitzMicrosoft is a VERY noisy companyMay 05 11:50
schestowitzSome trackers of news show this tooMay 05 11:50
schestowitzMicrosoft is all PR and marketingMay 05 11:50
schestowitzzoobab01: who would run such a site? It's also the wrong fishMay 05 11:50
schestowitzIBM has monopolies like mainframeMay 05 11:51
schestowitzand HPCMay 05 11:51
schestowitzGood luck getting their proprietary management tools for thatMay 05 11:51
oiaohmThere are other ways out with IBM.  Being a sub provider of products is another.   Basically IBM can distribute it under IBM brand no problems.May 05 11:52
oiaohmOut of the patent holders out there IBM is one of the nicest to small companies.May 05 11:53
oiaohmIBM and Cisco systems both use there patents the same way.  To hold the right to distribute product.May 05 11:54
oiaohmIf there did not no one could basically do business.May 05 11:55
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schestowitzBut it's still unfair fusMay 05 11:56
schestowitz*fudMay 05 11:56
schestowitzto market's one product basd on perceived protectionismMay 05 11:56
zoobab01oiaohm: does not matter if they are nice, they participate to the software patent pollutionMay 05 11:57
oiaohmNeither IBM and Cisco forbid the item from being sold under its own brand either.   Also neither IBM or Cisco set the price of the item.May 05 11:57
schestowitzDoesn't matterMay 05 11:58
zoobab01like any company wasting my time reading their claimsMay 05 11:58
schestowitzEconomics and markets changeMay 05 11:58
schestowitzThey could turn aggressive, oiaohm May 05 11:58
schestowitzLike Microsoft's "promise not to sue"May 05 11:58
schestowitzWait until MS announced layoff later today (yes, I hope it's true)May 05 11:58
schestowitzThen it'll not be Mister Responsible Big Microsoft playing nice with $small_companyMay 05 11:59
oiaohmWhat would be worse Cisco and IBM making produces that competed with the smaller company and dumping them cheep into the mark so destroying the smaller company.May 05 11:59
schestowitzThen they'll turn into a SCOMay 05 11:59
schestowitzoiaohm: like with Sun?May 05 11:59
schestowitzSee last night's linkMay 05 11:59
schestowitzAbout IBM vs SolarisMay 05 11:59
schestowitzThey dump on the market to ruin Solaris and SPARCMay 05 11:59
oiaohmExactly.May 05 12:00
schestowitzIf it's wrong for MS, then it's also wrong for IBMMay 05 12:00
oiaohmRemove patents does not prevent small guy from attack.May 05 12:00
schestowitzBut IBM spreads its "Linux"May 05 12:00
schestowitzDon't get me started on IBM's stub on anything but the kernelMay 05 12:00
schestowitzThis is deliberateMay 05 12:00
schestowitzThey don't like the philosophyMay 05 12:00
schestowitzIBM doesn't even like the GPL muchMay 05 12:00
schestowitzIt likes Eclipse for exampleMay 05 12:00
schestowitzFee softwareMay 05 12:01
schestowitz"Berlusconi: Wife must apologize for divorce threat" 05 12:01
oiaohmPatent pollution is only a small part of what a start up company has to put up with.May 05 12:02
taconehe also told she was bad advised from his political oppositorsMay 05 12:02
schestowitzHoly cow.May 05 12:02
schestowitzMary Jo Foley is like a Vista7 marketing machine this hyearMay 05 12:02
schestowitzEvery second blog item from her is Vista7 this and Vista7 that.May 05 12:02
oiaohmIt goes on market the end of this year.May 05 12:02
schestowitzShe feels the heat, I guess.May 05 12:02
schestowitzShe's one of the last Microsoft watchers remainingMay 05 12:02
schestowitzJoe and Joe are downMay 05 12:03
schestowitzTodd is movedMay 05 12:03
taconevista7 has been suggested from one the main (generic) newspapers of italy to linux usersMay 05 12:03
schestowitzAnd Microsoft may announce layoffs, but Mary Jo is still ignoring itMay 05 12:03
MinceR131310 < _folti_> waa: "i need an iphone because i need a place to stick my 'defective by design' sticker." :DMay 05 12:03
taconeto linux users !...May 05 12:03
schestowitzMinceR: or CDs at the shopMay 05 12:04
schestowitzLet me find a video of RMS protests in FranceMay 05 12:04
oiaohmtacone: windows 7 is though to be magical to convert Linux users back.May 05 12:04
taconethough or thought ?May 05 12:05
schestowitzWhat's wrong with my iPod? < >May 05 12:05
taconeschestowitz: the iPod itselfMay 05 12:05
schestowitzI've grown tired of explaining this to friendsMay 05 12:07
schestowitzThey learn when they lose all their music :-)May 05 12:07
taconerightMay 05 12:08
schestowitzMicrosoft to defend its IE policies in closed-door antitrust hearing < >May 05 12:09
schestowitzFrom the same post: "You think the US has a capitalist economy? In what sense?"May 05 12:09
schestowitztacone: it's like explaining to people that eating just hotdogs will give them a heart attackMay 05 12:09
schestowitzIf you're lucky you get to tell them this after they get one (if they are still alive)May 05 12:10
schestowitzI stopped eating tuna myself. Mercury debate......May 05 12:10
schestowitzI wonder to what extent this can be a corporate lie like "Dolphin Safe". Here's what I don't get: why does tuna present mercury issue whereas other fish don't?May 05 12:11
oiaohmAny large fish presents a Mercury risk.May 05 12:12
oiaohmTuna are not particularly good at getting rid of mercury.May 05 12:12
oiaohmJust like we are not particularly good at getting rid of mercury.May 05 12:12
schestowitz"You gotta see this in context, Miguel de Icaza recommends Linux Hater, Linux Hater points to a Novell blog that point to the video and the Novell blog mentions the Linux Hater blog. This kind of 'constructive' criticism is lethal, as it comes from a Linux proponent. See where that 'E-Commerce Times' article gets a 'Does Linux Suck?' headline out of it."May 05 12:13
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schestowitz"Just who 'writes' the Novell blog Just who writes 'Linux sucks' blog ?"May 05 12:13
schestowitzoiaohm: I guess I'll keep off tuna for a while longer then. The sea's population is growing smaller too. About 10 years ago I was told that it would almost run out in th e future (or price of seafood elevated)May 05 12:14
oiaohm 05 12:16
MinceRwhere's the Linux proponent?May 05 12:17
MinceRde icaza certainly isn't oneMay 05 12:17
oiaohmShark is one of the most risky one its normally sold to people as flake.May 05 12:17
oiaohmTuna is not the worse it just the most common consumed.May 05 12:18
schestowitzsjvn likes KDE again after bashing it and huring many people's feelings. 05 12:22
schestowitzMandriva 2009.1 got very good reviews for its implementation (deployment, whatever) of KDE4May 05 12:23
schestowitzWikipedians: Please vote (by May 3) < >. No known outcome yet?May 05 12:24
oiaohmI guess you have not been eating flake with chips schestowitzMay 05 12:25
schestowitz"New KDE rocks [...] I was waiting a long time for upgrading from KDE 3.5 and sort of took a leap of faith when I installed Kubuntu 9.04 with the new KDE release. I really like it, last time I tired, somewhere at 4.0.1 (?) my system hang so many times, not to mention problems with the display."May 05 12:25
schestowitzoiaohm: no, tuna flakes are goss tooMay 05 12:26
oiaohmNot tuna flakes.May 05 12:26
schestowitzThe cheaper type is darker and contains all sorts of argans you can't recognise in flake form.May 05 12:26
schestowitzIt's worst when the product is not even consistent or homogenous.May 05 12:26
oiaohm  Ok oppsMay 05 12:27
oiaohmIt an Australian only term.May 05 12:27
schestowitzAnti-Linux Turfers raid SJVN's blog as wellMay 05 12:27
schestowitzOhMay 05 12:27
oiaohmPeople will not normally eat shark here rename it flake and they eat it by the ton.May 05 12:27
schestowitzFlake here would be Cornflakes{Tm}May 05 12:27
schestowitzMade nearby in TraffordMay 05 12:27
oiaohmSo when you buy fish and chips over there what is shark called?May 05 12:28
schestowitzSpringSource Acquires Hyperic. The newest open source powerhouse? < > Seems benign.May 05 12:29
schestowitzThe fish is usually kipper AFAIKMay 05 12:29
schestowitzCan be cod tooMay 05 12:29
schestowitzI have like 20 tins of pilchards  at my house ATMMay 05 12:30
schestowitzFish and chips are probably at risk due to multinationals like Burger Kind and SubwayMay 05 12:31
schestowitz*KingMay 05 12:31
schestowitzMore ways to gain access to systems you have physical access to < >May 05 12:31
oiaohmFish and chips and conner store made works buggers are still popular here.May 05 12:31
schestowitz "Linux taking over the world ( May 5, 2009, 04:19:51 ) I think it will happen with Linux users competing against other Linux users: Everyone wants their distro to win out -- and you can do something about it! "May 05 12:32
schestowitzAU must be more fishing-oriented than most countriesMay 05 12:32
schestowitzI reckon the seas north of AU are filled with Asian fishermenMay 05 12:32
*mib_ja3cq6 is now known as Ap0G33May 05 12:33
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schestowitz"I now have an excellent reason for wanting to move to KDE4 and I am sure it will happen. Honey catches more flies than vinegar. " 05 12:34
oiaohmHmm I cannot find a true australian works burger instructions on line yet.  So far they are all missing beetroot.May 05 12:36
schestowitz"Joe Wilcox, formerly of Microsoft Watch, is back to blogging at, with posts on his daughter's switch from Mac to PC, and Microsoft's latest Laptop Hunter ad. See his introductory post here."May 05 12:37
schestowitzI suppose you know who he isMay 05 12:37
schestowitzAdvertisement for the Vole?May 05 12:37
schestowitz 05 12:37
oiaohm  That is basically a Aus works bugger stupid enough you buy them cheaper than big macs yet they are bigger.May 05 12:38
oiaohmThis is the problem our corner stores steped up to the competition.May 05 12:38
schestowitzLinux is DOOMED. Vista 7 has this new 'feature': 05 12:38
MinceRoh noesMay 05 12:40
MinceRi just hope the EULA allows us to use those new wallpapers in other OS-es!May 05 12:40
*MinceR runs to get a licenseMay 05 12:40
oiaohmHigh grade works buggers use stakes instead of mince.   Some strange works buggers use kangaroo.   So yes when ordering a work bugger pays to check what you are getting first.May 05 12:40
oiaohmNew wallpapers so what.May 05 12:41
*MinceR was being sarcasticMay 05 12:41
oiaohmKDE and Gnome are both planing some new ones before end of year.May 05 12:42,, deviantart, digitalblasphemy and dozens of other sites have more than one could choose from. :>May 05 12:43
oiaohmWonder if KDE will get the intergrated social desktop out before windows 7 gets released.May 05 12:44
MinceRmincer@stormwind(pts/4) % du -sh m/pix/wallpaper.scaleMay 05 12:44
MinceR449Mm/pix/wallpaper.scaleMay 05 12:44
schestowitz "I firmly believe those numbers of "finally reaching 1% desktop market share" is a vast under reporting of the true Linux desktop market share. As other have pointed out the place reporting these numbers is a company firmly entrenched in Microsoft's back pocket."May 05 12:45
schestowitz└─(12:46 $)─>  du -sh ~/Main/Graphics/Wallpapers/May 05 12:46
schestowitz549M    /home/roy/Main/Graphics/Wallpapers/May 05 12:46
oiaohmAfter what that windows guy calls the best somehow I don't want to see the worst in the new Windows backgrounds.May 05 12:46
schestowitzOn shuffle in KDE BTWMay 05 12:47
oiaohmschestowitz: what is the most popular fast food over there.May 05 12:47
schestowitzIn KDE 3.1 I kept different wallpapers in each desktop (quad-head wallpapers)May 05 12:47
schestowitzoiaohm: I think curryMay 05 12:47
oiaohmHere its a pie.May 05 12:48
schestowitzIf that can count as fast foodMay 05 12:48
schestowitzMore of a restaurant dish that beats allMay 05 12:48
schestowitzDoes chewing gum count as fast 'food'?May 05 12:48
oiaohmI have no a single curry place inside 200 kms of where I am.May 05 12:48
oiaohmNo chewing cum does not count.May 05 12:48
schestowitzChewing gum is culinary masturbation.May 05 12:49
schestowitzCan a person live just on chewing gums? For how long?May 05 12:49
oiaohmNot too long.May 05 12:49
schestowitzThat right there is an interesting experiment.May 05 12:49
oiaohmthere is almost no food value to it.May 05 12:49
schestowitzSugarMay 05 12:49
schestowitzNot enough to build cell thougMay 05 12:50
oiaohmSugar you burn off more doing the chewing to get it.May 05 12:50
oiaohmThinking about it there is most likely no food value at all.May 05 12:51
oiaohmits most likely a negitive food.May 05 12:51
schestowitzSauerbraten 2009 is released (free download, GNU/Linux included of course): 05 12:51
oiaohmUnless you eat it whole and risk screwing up the works.May 05 12:51
schestowitzDoes it contain real sugars?May 05 12:52
schestowitzOther than acids and stuff that's probably poisonous at moderate levels?May 05 12:52
schestowitz 05 12:53
schestowitz"Chewing gum is a type of confection traditionally made of chicle, a natural latex product, or synthetic rubber known as polyisobutylene, which is a non-vulcanisable form of the butyl rubber (isoprene-isobutylene) used for inner tubes or to line tubeless tyres."May 05 12:53
schestowitzHHHHHHHHHHHHHmmmmmmm.......... sounds juicy, donnit?May 05 12:53
schestowitzRubber... latex.... tyresMay 05 12:53
*schestowitz droolsMay 05 12:54
schestowitzSnake oilware: AVG Ventures Into Linux Malware Protection < >May 05 12:55
oiaohmYep schestowitz and people chew gum say for some reason they will not chew inner tubes.May 05 12:56
schestowitzLOL -> New in YouTube: "I novell i made to the song moonlight shadow" 05 12:58
oiaohmschestowitz: it shows that Linux has a enough market share that anti-virus companies are getting worried.May 05 12:58
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, but who knows how much...May 05 12:58
schestowitzThe press is dying.May 05 12:59
schestowitzYou know what this means?May 05 12:59
schestowitzMany Linux migrations we'll never hear aboutMay 05 12:59
schestowitzNo reportingMay 05 12:59
schestowitzWell, at least a year late we found out in the English press about 100,000+ cops in France running LinuxMay 05 12:59
oiaohmLook at the loss of blood.May 05 12:59
schestowitzIt came from OSOR (open source observatory) researchMay 05 13:00
oiaohmIn computer world its heavly focused around MS supporters.May 05 13:00
schestowitzLet's see if layoffs are announced todayMay 05 13:00
oiaohmMost Linux media is business as normal.May 05 13:00
schestowitzoiaohm: it's focused like this because it's MANNED like thisMay 05 13:00
schestowitzYour staff is your biasMay 05 13:00
oiaohmlwn is not going anywhere.  There subscriptions are up of all things.May 05 13:01
oiaohmThis down turn is being strange.  Linux stuff is mostly going the other way to the trend.May 05 13:02
oiaohmIts more like a model failing.May 05 13:02
schestowitzYesMay 05 13:04
schestowitzSee the Linux FoundationMay 05 13:04
schestowitz..Post about itMay 05 13:04
schestowitzLet me find itMay 05 13:05
schestowitz 05 13:05
schestowitz"The 3rd Annual Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit, held this April 8-10 in San Francisco, left me surprised and in high spirits. € Why you ask?"May 05 13:05
schestowitz"Because although I am fully aware that the downturn the economy has taken is affecting both individuals and businesses alike across the board, it didn’t seem to have this effect on the summit this year - not in a lack of attendees, enthusiasm among the participants or spirit of the collaboration."May 05 13:05
oiaohmMedia firms have to make a profit.  Its like pc mags here found if a cover cd don't have a copy of Linux you can basically cut you sales in half.May 05 13:07
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schestowitzUK Gov't Considers Google Tax? See my argument with a PAID anti-Google shill: 05 13:08
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schestowitzoiaohm: yes, Linux ISOs are cheapMay 05 13:09
schestowitzIn Germany they attach a copy of Ubuntu of OpenSUSEMay 05 13:09
schestowitzBuy some paper, get some more plasticMay 05 13:09
schestowitzHoly FUD! The Mother Of All Anti-Google Rants: Comparing Google To The Taliban < >May 05 13:11
oiaohmYou will find its a web in the PR world to hide exactly where the money came from.May 05 13:13
schestowitzzoobab01: you have GOT to read this: ACK?May 05 13:13
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, there's a limit to how much you can followMay 05 13:13
schestowitzIt becomes challenging at some stageMay 05 13:14
schestowitzSee SCO->BayStar->MSMay 05 13:14
schestowitz"On the same day that CA blasted SCO, Open Source evangelist Eric Raymond revealed a leaked email from SCO's strategic consultant Mike Anderer to their management. The email details how, surprise surprise, Microsoft has arranged virtually all of SCO's financing, hiding behind intermediaries like Baystar Capital." --PerensMay 05 13:14
schestowitz"...Microsoft wished to promote SCO and its pending lawsuit against IBM and the Linux operating system. But Microsoft did not want to be seen as attacking IBM or Linux." --Larry Goldfarb, Baystar, key investor in SCOMay 05 13:14
schestowitz"[Microsoft's] Mr. Emerson and I discussed a variety of investment structures wherein Microsoft would 'backstop,' or guarantee in some way, BayStar's investment.... Microsoft assured me that it would in some way guarantee BayStar's investment in SCO." --Larry GoldfarbMay 05 13:14
oiaohmHmm that template looks strangely linked at  going to check out domian would not be supprised if it not another grassroots site.May 05 13:15
schestowitz -- Intel's co-founder says patents are like a bubble waiting to burst.May 05 13:16
schestowitzoiaohm: which one?May 05 13:17
schestowitzI mean, which is like the rosenfdn?May 05 13:17
schestowitzSourceWatch has some good research that show who created what umbrella/shells and whyMay 05 13:17
schestowitzMore details on Elsevier's corruption. Another reason for me never to publish in Elsevier (other than the MS connection)May 05 13:18
zoobab01schestowitz: read the Digimaj feedMay 05 13:20
oiaohm  I wonder if we should contact host.May 05 13:20
schestowitzzoobab01: I don't read it fast enoughMay 05 13:20
oiaohmThey have a strict rule against advertisement of any form.May 05 13:20
schestowitzoiaohm: what about?May 05 13:21
schestowitzI don't quite follow. What to look at..?May 05 13:21 is web host.May 05 13:22
*kentma has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))May 05 13:22
schestowitzit took the Bulldogs (Watchdog) just HOURS to mail me after I posted in BNMay 05 13:23
schestowitzSo they stalk their own imageMay 05 13:23
schestowitzAnd then they try to police it...May 05 13:23
oiaohmOpp I left out a them and about.May 05 13:23
schestowitzIt's not easy to find me E-mail addy, either.May 05 13:23
schestowitzis rosenfdn rotten?May 05 13:23
schestowitzAll we know is that they make donations to attack GoogleMay 05 13:23
schestowitzBut the question is, on whose behalf, if anyone?May 05 13:24
schestowitzPeople don't just attack Google as a hobyyMay 05 13:24
schestowitzThat's just how people portray themselves in foundationaMay 05 13:24
oiaohm  Its simple to find the hosts email address.May 05 13:24
schestowitzLike the Gates FoundryMay 05 13:24
schestowitzOr BaystarMay 05 13:24
oiaohmOpps wrong link.May 05 13:24
schestowitzMicrosoft's funnel for lawsuits against LinuxMay 05 13:24
schestowitzOh waitMay 05 13:24
oiaohm 05 13:24
schestowitz 05 13:25
schestowitzGoogle=TalibanMay 05 13:25
schestowitzSays the FT, which is praiising Microsoft a lotMay 05 13:26
schestowitzoiaohm: is there anything to say what rosenfdn attacks Google?May 05 13:26
schestowitzI look at their pagesMay 05 13:26
schestowitzNOTHING about privacyMay 05 13:26
schestowitzSo the idea that they promote privacy seems mootMay 05 13:26
oiaohmrosenfdn is all ment to be about the envorment.May 05 13:27
oiaohmI think contacting them is required to find out if this is a fake link.May 05 13:27
oiaohmIt would not be the first time I have see a PR try that.May 05 13:28
oiaohm  If they are not in it they will be highly offended.May 05 13:28
schestowitztacone: (Italy's Troubling View Of The Internet)May 05 13:29
oiaohmFake linking basically says astroturfer.May 05 13:29
schestowitzI'll checkMay 05 13:29
oiaohm  They are the funding source.May 05 13:32
schestowitzMy name is Roy Schestowitz and I am a reporter investigating an entity called Consumer Watchdog. They claim that you funded a campaign of theirs against Google and I just wanted to confirm this because I realise that you focus on benefits to the environment and communities.May 05 13:32
schestowitzLooking forward to your response.May 05 13:32
oiaohmIts down right huge $100 000 USD>May 05 13:32
schestowitzThat's the E-mail I just sent themMay 05 13:32
oiaohmI googled.May 05 13:32
oiaohmAnd found there list of 2008 grants.May 05 13:32
schestowitzUsefulMay 05 13:33
taconenormal stuffMay 05 13:33
schestowitzHaMay 05 13:33
schestowitzGoogle is thereMay 05 13:33
schestowitz$100,000May 05 13:33
taconewe're getting used to them trying all the time and never obtaining anything.May 05 13:33
schestowitz"watchdoggedMay 05 13:34
taconegerman raises many more concerns to meMay 05 13:34
schestowitzThis is sickMay 05 13:35
schestowitzThey are basically funding lots of lobbyistsMay 05 13:35
schestowitzWhy?May 05 13:35
schestowitzWho gains?May 05 13:35
oiaohmSo you are right the first one is just a highered gun.May 05 13:36
schestowitztacone: begs for civil disobedienceMay 05 13:36
oiaohmWhy are lobbyist funding lobbyist.May 05 13:36
taconewhat ?May 05 13:36
schestowitzThe government is all cool with Freedom, as long as people below it are powerlessMay 05 13:36
taconegovernments never push far enough to trigger civil disobbedienceMay 05 13:37
schestowitzoiaohm: money chainMay 05 13:37
taconethey let everyone to be out-lawMay 05 13:37
taconeso from time to time they can pick and jail the people they want in jail.May 05 13:37
schestowitzYesMay 05 13:37
schestowitzSame in Russia with s/wMay 05 13:38
taconeit already happens here.May 05 13:38
schestowitzThey jail the troublemaking journalistsMay 05 13:38
taconeright.May 05 13:38
schestowitzFor 'pirating' something (everyone does)May 05 13:38
taconegonna go now. later.May 05 13:38
schestowitzCopyurights are anothe goodieMay 05 13:38
schestowitzEven Sarko was cauhtt and finedMay 05 13:38
schestowitzI guess you should also jail those babysitting kids who don't pay tax for watching the neighbours's babyMay 05 13:38
iwmweverybody should be put to jail and work for free thereMay 05 13:39
oiaohm  Found more of the monay chain.May 05 13:40
schestowitzHa.May 05 13:41
schestowitzWell, yesterday I tried to find an MS funnel without much successMay 05 13:41
schestowitz"San Francisco Bay-Delta Fund: Originally seeded with a $900,000 restitution award from Exxon and supplemented by payments from many additional settlements involving San Francisco Baykeeper, California Sportfishing Protection Alliance,"May 05 13:42
schestowitzWha wha?May 05 13:42
schestowitzExxon?May 05 13:42
schestowitz"...Union Bank and Cal Fed Bank..."May 05 13:43
schestowitzSo it's not some God-like rich dude giving this moneyMay 05 13:43
schestowitzIt's corporationsMay 05 13:43
schestowitzInstead of Exxon funding  (AstroTurf) it's just some <X> foundationMay 05 13:43
oiaohmAnd the banks were most likely given the money to give to the PR group.May 05 13:44
schestowitz 05 13:44
oiaohmSo effectively the money has been well and truly washed.May 05 13:45
schestowitzBanks given by whom?May 05 13:45
schestowitzCompanies that have vested interests?May 05 13:45
oiaohmYep.May 05 13:45
oiaohmThat would be normal.May 05 13:45
schestowitzSome funds come from settlements thoughMay 05 13:46
schestowitzI.e. from penalised companiesMay 05 13:46
oiaohmThis money laundering on a grand scale.May 05 13:47
oiaohmYou get ordered to pay money so you pay it to a PR group who will attack your competition.May 05 13:47
oiaohmIf you can of course.May 05 13:48
oiaohmSo unless they come clean about the complete source of this money we cannot even tell if what they are doing is legal or not.May 05 13:48
oiaohmRemember I said the USA system was rotten to the core this is what I was talking about schestowitz.May 05 13:49
schestowitzI know about the PR riddleMay 05 13:49
schestowitzI mean, look at SourceWatchMay 05 13:49
schestowitzit has extensive documentation of just the edge of the machinations of this systemMay 05 13:49
oiaohmDig deep enough and there is illegally used money.May 05 13:49
schestowitzIt had no page that I could find about the RosefdnMay 05 13:50
schestowitzSueMay 05 13:50
schestowitzSureMay 05 13:50
schestowitzLet's stop it thereMay 05 13:50
oiaohmSourceWatch does not track funders.May 05 13:50
schestowitzI'll post this bit of of the log separatelyMay 05 13:50
oiaohmOnly the PR doers.May 05 13:50
schestowitzI don't have much time today to organise the factsMay 05 13:50
schestowitzoiaohm: yesMay 05 13:50
*schestowitz processes the logMay 05 13:52
oiaohmSourceWatch was more created by press people who did not want to be tricked by PR with no interest in finding the source of the fake PR.May 05 13:52
kentma1oiaohm: it's a good idea.  It's a shame the BBC don't check this before publishing industry-funded "opinion pieces" on global warming...May 05 13:54
oiaohmWithout tracing to source you cannot shame companies into not putting up PR that can trick you kentma1.May 05 13:55
oiaohmSourceWatch is more a bandaid over a massively deep and bleeding cut.May 05 13:56
kentma1indeed.  Interestingly, I don't think I really understood just how manipulated the news is until we got global television and the net.May 05 13:57
kentma1Shortwave radio was quite good, but in the end, it was mostly controlled by governments, so the "positions" were very overt.May 05 13:58
kentma1being able to watch television news from around the world is amazing, though - just to see the different spin.May 05 13:58
kentma1The internet, though, has created a situation where anyone and everyone can publish.May 05 13:59
kentma1Just like the GPL has borne a software mountain that no proprietary company can manipulate in any significant way, so, I think, the internet might do the same with "information".May 05 14:00


Recent Techrights' Posts

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