Bonum Certa Men Certa

Nathan Myhrvold/Bill Gates Use “Embrace and Extend” Against “Mak[ing] it Easy for People to Do Competitive Operating Systems”

Summary: Microsoft talks about harming competition by embracing and extending

WHEN IT comes to Comes vs Microsoft, we have only just begun. So if you enjoy 'smoking guns' that were hardly/never seen before, be sure to subscribe.

This next exhibit, Exhibit plex_5803 (1996) [PDF], is an excellent sequel to the one where Microsoft describes “Embrace and Extend” and the Windows API franchise.

Herein we find Nathan Myhrvold, the world's largest patent troll at present, seemingly passing a long message from Bill Gates, although it is not perfectly clear whether the message came from him or from Gates. The message paints a rather vivid picture of the company's fear and predatory responses to competition.

For instance, how about this gem at the start?

I am worry a lot about how great Java/Javabeans and all the runtime work they are doing is and how much excitement this is generating. I am literally losing sleep over this issue since together with a move to more server based applications it seems like it could make it easy for people to do competitive operating systems.


The next paragraph is curious too.

I am very interested to get your thoughts on this. Prior to the advanced work you are driving what kind of defenses do we have against this? I certainly havent’ come up with enough to relax about the situation and it is undermining my creativity.


Microsoft fears fair competition where platforms can interoperate:

I think that the risk of Sun really taking the OS franchise away from us is much lower than the risk that they cheapen the entire business. They are so hell bent to give things away, and there is so much cross platform ferver that it will be hard for them or others to harness this energy toward a single platform. In the limit, they can make the web totally OS agnostic but there will still be other things that motivate one platform versus another.


Gates (or Myhrvold) then proposes a malicious "embrace and extend" in order to extinguish Java. Think about MSODF [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7].

The obvious things to do are:

Provide our own means of dramatically improving web pages.

- Continue to “embrace and extend” both at the level of new Java tools (like J++), and our broader browser strategy.

- Create some radical new approaches to improving web pages, or building web applications. I think that it is a big mistake to put all of our eggs in the “embrace and extend” basket. This thinking will lead us down the path to renounce any really interesting edge we could have. Over reliance on “embrace and extend” can lead to what I sometimes call the relentless drive to come in second, which does not help much in a winner take all world.


Here is an embrace (like Microsoft 'joining' ODF):

2. Pioneer other means to participate in the new market. It is very rare that there is only one asset that matters. Hell, look at Netscape and Sun - each have an interesting asset, and this is still the EARLY stages of the net. There will be other technologies which matter and we should try to own one of them, even if it is in a totally different direction.


Another last mention of "embrace and extend" (all very explicitly):

We need Windows to be the most compelling platform for users to choose Ideally this means that we win in every category. You are worried that we will only tie in the Java category because Javabeans and other runtime work will make cross platform really work well. I say we should try to tie (or win) with embrace and extend in the Java world.


For naysayings who speak about the age of these exhibits, the important points to be made is that these are new to the public eye and they help educate about Microsoft's practices, which have never changed since.

"This anti-trust thing will blow over. We haven't changed our business practices at all."

--Bill Gates, 1995






Appendix: Comes vs. Microsoft - exhibit plex_5803, as text








From: Nathan Myhrvold Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 1996 12:05 PM To: Bill Gates Cc: Aaron Contorer Subject: RE: Java runtime becomes the operating system

-------- From: Bill Gates Sent: Monday, September 30, 1996 9:36 PM To: Nathan Myhrvoid Cc: Aaron Contorer Subject: Java runtime becomes the operating system

I am worry a lot about how great Java/Javabeans and all the runtime work they are doing is and how much excitement this is generating. I am literally losing sleep over this issue since together with a move to more server based applications it seems like it could make it easy for people to do competitive operating systems.

I am very interested to get your thoughts on this. Prior to the advanced work you are driving what kind of defenses do we have against this? I certainly havent’ come up with enough to relax about the situation and it is undermining my creativity.

I agree that this is a dilemma, but I don’t think that it is severe enough that you should lose sleep over it. Here are some quick thoughts on the matter - I will put more time in on it also.

First, the excitement is overblown at least from a *business* perspective. At the moment Java is expanding into a vacuum. It allows you to make cool web pages, and that is a very attractive thing for people. It gives programmers something new to learn, book people something new to sell books on, software tool companies a way to issue new development tools etc.

As you and know very well, this sort of widespread interest can become a self fulifilling phenomenon, because programmer attention creates programs. Some of these will be successful and that only fuels more participation in the phenomenon. However, at the same time you must keep something of a balanced perspective.

I think that the risk of Sun really taking the OS franchise away from us is much lower than the risk that they cheapen the entire business. They are so hell bent to give things away, and there is so much cross platform ferver that it will be hard for them or others to harness this energy toward a single platform. In the limit, they can make the web totally OS agnostic but there will still be other things that motivate one platform versus another.

In the very long run they could make it more and more difficult for us to keep up and thus even though the world is cross platform, we have more baggage, worse implementation and can’t keep up. This is NOT going to happen quickly however - we will get several more swings at them

The new Java applications are NOT credible threats to traditional PC software any time soon. It is just insanity to think that they are. New things are NEVER a threat to the old world as soon as people say. Look at the mainframe vs PC. It has taken us TWO DECADES and even after all that IBM still has billions in mainframe revenue. Cool new technology always expands rapidly into NEW areas (where there is a vacuum). Pundits always say that this is going to kill the old businesses - eventually that happens but not anywhere near as soon as they say.

It is a new and uncomfortable feeling to be the incumbent rather than the challenger in one of these battles. However, we must not panic. The current perceptual battle is a long way distant from actual business and revenue issues, and we can’t let the perceptual issues cloud our thinking too much.

This is not to say that Java is unimportant It is VERY important (just don’t lose sleep!) I think that you are focusing on the wrong *kind* of threat. We are in danger of losing a new market which will grow at a pace which is very rapid indeed. This would be a tradegy to have happen to us, but it is different than a direct assult on our core asset, and our response must also be different.

The obvious things to do are:

1

Plaintiff's Exhibit 5803 Comes V. Microsoft

MS-CC-Sun 000001396845 HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL

1 Provide our own means of dramatically improving web pages.

- Continue to “embrace and extend” both at the level of new Java tools (like J++), and our broader browser strategy.

- Create some radical new approaches to improving web pages, or building web applications. I think that it is a big mistake to put all of our eggs in the “embrace and extend” basket. This thinking will lead us down the path to renounce any really interesting edge we could have. Over reliance on “embrace and extend” can lead to what I sometimes call the relentless drive to come in second, which does not help much in a winner take all world.

Note that by “radical” I mean more in concept than in technology i.e. NOT speech or other really hard stuff. Java is pathetic technology. We do not need high tech here we need some technology but mainly creativity in how we look at it.

2. Pioneer other means to participate in the new market. It is very rare that there is only one asset that matters. Hell, look at Netscape and Sun - each have an interesting asset, and this is still the EARLY stages of the net. There will be other technologies which matter and we should try to own one of them, even if it is in a totally different direction.

The key thing is to come up with something which will be buoyed up by the rising Intemet tide Again, this need not be some super hard technical problem it is more about being creative and finding an opportunity. Here are some examples (none perfect).

- Virtual worlds could be such a thing.

- New ways of doing server apps, or doing net transactions (ala Viper) could be such a thing.

I don’t have as many examples here as I would like, but I am pretty sure that we could come up with some things if we really focussed on this area.

3. Continue to invest in our core business assets - in this case the Windows runtime. 99% of worldwide software revenue is still based on Windows apps, and way more than 100% of profits. If we let Windows decline in its non-web attributes then we will REALLY will be up shit creek. I fear that the overexcitement in the web, and the misunderstanding that our core business is only indirectly under attack means that our current course and speed neglects our best avenue to comete.

We need Windows to be the most compelling platform for users to choose Ideally this means that we win in every category. You are worried that we will only tie in the Java category because Javabeans and other runtime work will make cross platform really work well. I say we should try to tie (or win) with embrace and extend in the Java world. HOWEVER while doing this we MUST NOT allow Windows to lose in the other, non-web dimensions that are important to users selecting systoms! There is more to a user’s system choice than just the Web and it is in those areas where we have a big advantage.

Put another way suppose that Java is totally successful and totally cross platform then why should people choose one - system versus another? It will all hinge on other areas.

Here are some examples:

- We need to be the LEADER in multimedia this means doing very cool audio and video. We want to lead with DVD and make it easy to. We must be the best platform for games (better than Ultra64 or Playstation). We want to be the best platform for graphics/video/audio authoring (better than SGI or Mac).

- Prevent barriers from coming up in ease of use. PCs must be instant on, they must go beyond plug and play to be even more self configuring, they must be self diagnosing. There is no technical reason why a PC shouldn’t be the best possible user experience better than those hypothetical web terminals. However, this takes WORK to make it happen It will take those web terminal guys some work too, but in our case there is a certain amount of baggage which will cause extra work for us, but will result in extra reward too. It is critical that we do this.

- Leverage the web to provide dramatic new functionality for old applications. The key example here is the “My Workspace” notion of totally abstracting storage on the net. This would be a dramatic change for users - storage abstractions are one of the hardest things to use in current PCs and we can make this all go away. If we do this based on STORAGE (i.e. file system APIs) it can short circuit the longer term move to distribution based on other APIs or protocols -- storage gets you most of the benefit.

2

MS-CC-Sun 000001386846 HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL

I am frankly worried that we are not doing enough in this area because we have over-focused on the web We need end user focused people to really make our system great. We are handicapped by the fact that we also need to do an implementation technology shift (to NT) and a cultural/personnel shift (to Allchin’s group which has historically focussed more on underlying technology than on end user stuff).

This is a big challenge to do these shifts AND keep the platform vital. The analogy with Apple is frightening. They pissed away their creativity on non-Mac things (Kaleida, Sweet Pea/Pippin, Taligent, Newton...), and they tied up their Mac team with a technology shift (to Power PC). The analogy is unfair because the web work that Siverberg and Ludwig have been doing is much more relevant than what Apple did. However I still am worried that we are not making enough investment in our core asset. The good news is that we do have plenty of people we can focus on these problems, and if we do we can create some end user value that will be hard for anybody else to match.

-------------------------------

I am not sure whether I managed to make you less worried or more worried. I think that this is a serious problem, but I think that we have more options than you may think particularly with 2 and 3 above.

Nathan

3

MS-CC-Sun 000001386847 HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL


Credit: wallclimber

Recent Techrights' Posts

EPO is Corrupt Like Always, What Changed is the Lack of Media Coverage (No Transparency Means No Democracy)
We need to revive online media and encourage dissent
[Meme] How NOT to Do Activism Online
So many self-professed liberals continue participating and driving traffic (ads) in X
Number of Libera.Chat Users (Simultaneously Online) Falls to Lowest Figure in Over 3 Years
Notice the downward trend/curve in recent months
Shedding Light on How the EPO Sheds Off Staff in Order to Grant Loads of Invalid (Fake) Patents in Europe
The people who decide on these policies lack a background in science
 
Links 11/12/2024: Climate Warming, 'People Can Fly' Layoffs
Links for the day
Gemini Links 11/12/2024: LLMs as Plagiarism, Advent of Code 2024 Momentum
Links for the day
In United Arab Emirates (UAE), Microsoft Now on One in 8 Internet-Connected Devices?
Web-connected clients are becoming scarce that run Microsoft operating systems (Windows)
IBM and Microsoft Hats at Linux Foundation
"Fedora Project Leader Matthew Miller: A change of hats!"
IBM's Latest Fedora Divestment Speaks for Itself
Microsoft must be very pleased with what IBM is doing
Why is UK Press Gazette Jingoistic About Plagiarists and LLM Slop Disguised as Journalism?
Press Gazette appears to be participating in the attack on honest journalism
In Central Africa, Which is Bigger Than Europe, Windows is About 5% in Terms of "Market Share"
they apparently got so fed up with colonialism
Communicating Outside of Skinnerboxes and Social Control Media
Tackling collective isolation and miscommunication (or communications being controlled by middlemen)
[Meme] Social Control Media is NOT Free Speech
It's time to discard that stupid argument that banning an abusive censor is "censorship"
Banning Not Only TikTok... if Not for FOMOC (Fear of Missing on Constituents)
It's a sort of addiction by peer pressure
Montenegro's Share of GNU/Linux Reaches All-Time High
We don't really know why, but that's just what the data from statCounter suggests
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, December 10, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, December 10, 2024
Yes, Of Course the Linux Foundation's OpenSSF Rejects Open Source and GNU/Linux (New Report)
longstanding tradition
Links 10/12/2024: Nvidia's Regulatory Woes, Trust Issues in LLMs (and Similar Recent Hype)
Links for the day
Gemini Links 10/12/2024: Lagrange 1.18.4 Released, New RNG
Links for the day
More Chatbot 'Articles' About Chatbots
Look what's happening to the Web...
Microsoft Falls to All-Time Lows in Cameroon
Windows down to just 4.6%
Brittany Day Still Uses Bots to 'Write' Articles (But Not All the Time)
it leads to a presumption of plagiarism
Links 10/12/2024: Trying "Hey Hi" With New Hype and Buzzwords, TikTok Bans Imminent
Links for the day
Google's CEO: LLMs' ‘Low-Hanging Fruit’ Now Exhausted
They basically tell shareholders not to expect returns on this hype
Microsoft Windows Falls to 11% in Senegal, an All-Time Low
In neighbouring countries (to the east of Senegal) the "market share" of Windows is even lower
The EPO's Corrupt Dealings With Microsoft Never Addressed, Only Worsened
it helps Microsoft spy on the competition and manipulate examiners dealing with its files
The Catching of Luigi Mangione Shows We Need Not Have More Surveillance (Than We Already Have; It's Excessive Anyway)
instead of saying surveillance is insufficient and thus we need more of it, now they can claim they have enough of it
[Teaser] Fate of Formalities Officers (FOs) at the EPO
Coming soon
Libre Liberia: Windows Down to 8% in Liberia
In Liberia, only about 1 in 12 Web requests seems to originate from Windows
Links 10/12/2024: Health, Politics, Economics, and More
Links for the day
Gemini Links 10/12/2024: LLM Plagiarism and "Flow" Review
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, December 09, 2024
IRC logs for Monday, December 09, 2024
EPO Salaries Reduced: EPO's “Sustainability” Clause "Cuts the Average Overall Adjustment for Staff by –41,8%."
What does this all mean for staff?
Google is Nuking Remaining Invidious Instances Again, Hoping to Force Everyone to Use Proprietary Spyware With DRM
This issue started a few hours ago
Microsoft's Grip on Armenia is Slipping, According to New Data From statCounter
Notice what happened to Windows - an all-time low
[Meme] Sloppy Plagiarism Full of Errors, Lacking Actual Comprehension
LLMs are not "AI"
More LLM Spam/Slop About LLM Spam/Slop
This is what the Web will become unless we expose those who contribute to the problem
Reforming Versus Rebooting Versus Destroying Institutions
At the moment we strive to expose the truth or shine light on pertinent facts
Expose Corrupt Insurance Companies, Don't Kill People
Murder gives them sympathy, makes the raiders seem like the victims
Microsoft's Windows is Pretty Much Dead in Haiti
Android has eaten Microsoft's lunch, Microsoft can't even eat crow
[Teaser] EPO Management Thinks Inflation in Europe is 0.2% Per Annum
Taming inflation by entirely ignoring it is like wrongly assuming that climate change (caused by human activity) can be overcome by not studying the effect of 8+ billion humans on this finite planet
Corporate Media Will Be Discarded and Eventually Die If It Keeps Doing "Bill Gates Sez" (or Similar) Pieces Instead of Journalism
"Superintelligence" does not even mean anything!
This Week We Focus Again on European Patent Office (EPO) Scandals
Nothing can stop us, not even a party or SLAPP
Links 09/12/2024: Health Care Anger and Power Vacuum in Syria
Links for the day
Links 09/12/2024: Burned, Uncertain Future, and Failure
Links for the day
[Meme] Write Code, Not Social Control Media
don't forget to 'like'
Links 09/12/2024: UnitedHealthcare C.E.O.'s Killer Still Unknown, Syrian Regime Change Completed
Links for the day
Site in Support of Richard Stallman Reminds People of the FSF's and Stallman's Support of Women
new updates
Microsoft: Target the Young (Get 'Em While They're Young)
Then they say Free software advocates are "extremists" and "rude"...
As of December 8th (23 Days Remaining), the FSF (Free Software Foundation, Inc.) Already a Third of the Way Toward Ambitious Funding Goal
FSF's memberships (or donations) drive is going a lot better than we anticipated
Why Mike Magee Created and Was Involved in So Many News Sites About Technology
British legend
In Memory of Mike Magee (1949-2024) and Our Best Wishes to The Register, Which He Founded in the 1990s
Months have passed since Magee died
Tunisia is Android, Windows is Waning There
Windows was measured below 20% in Tunisia
[Meme] Jeff Bezos Working From Home
"B**** please, publish articles in Washington Post about how working from home sucks"
'Remote' (From Home) Tech Workers Are More Productive for a Lot of Reasons
The Bezos-owned media should disclose its conflict of interest here
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, December 08, 2024
IRC logs for Sunday, December 08, 2024
No Wonder Microsoft's LinkedIn and Github Have So Many Layoffs, Permanent Office Closures
Traffic down, losses, probably never going to profit