EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

04.15.08

ISO’s Alex Brown on OOXML Messiness; ISO Wants Us to Bugger Off

Posted in Formats, ISO, Microsoft, Open XML, OpenDocument, Standard at 8:38 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Crocodiles warning

Earlier today it was mentioned that ISO had essentially been captured by Microsoft and its interests, so it is no longer able to do anything but keep up appearance. This type of psychological game where ISO begs for its reputation to be saved without honest admission of failure (with OOXML) is likely to continue. Yes, all this despite the fact that Groklaw has just found Alex Brown admitting OOXML’s shortcomings.

Here’s a quotation for the ages, from an Alex Brown comment on Andrew Updegrove’s Standards Blog (scroll down) asking Brown if he’d agree that ODF was cleaner than OOXML:

“I’d go with that. I think ISO/IEC 26300 (ODF 1.0) can be compared to a neat house built on good foundations which is not finished; 29500 (OOXML) is a baroque cliffside castle replete with toppling towers, secret passages and ghosts: it is all too finished.”

[...]

I see I am not alone in viewing OOXML as a move of aggression. Microsoft must be realizing by now by the outpouring of dismay all over the world that this isn’t just a typical vendor fight, where winner takes all and everyone shakes hands and moves on. The public cares about ODF, because it realizes it will impact every one of us directly, and we see the obvious, that OOXML is a spoiler. This has nothing to do with market share.

The “keep out” sign is still hanging on ISO’s door. In fact, ISO has openly asked people to stop criticising it, which is vain in and of itself. Despite the many details picked up by Groklaw, ISO apparently sees protests as illegitimate, unjustified. But:

The move came as an ISO committee meeting in Norway attracted protesters, who gathered to call for the retraction of OOXML from the ISO standardisation process.

At the start of April, the document format won enough votes to become a fully fledged ISO standard. Many observers had been against that standardisation, pointing out that the OpenDocument Format (ODF) already existed as an ISO standard, and arguing that OOXML’s documentation contained too many unanswered technical problems to be passed.

This last bit even ISO has already admitted to be true. How long can an explanation be sought for? Why does ISO try to silence its critics? And since when is this attack personal? ISO is not a person.

“ISO should hang their heads in shame for allowing it to happen.”

Tim Bray

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

12 Comments

  1. CoolGuy said,

    April 15, 2008 at 8:42 am

    Gravatar

    boycottiso.com

    wtf ?? they are asking us to keep quite to the injustice that a abusive and greedy corporate monopoly is doing to the ecosystem…hum…

  2. CoolGuy said,

    April 15, 2008 at 8:44 am

    Gravatar

    ISO is just a mere puppet of microsoft now.

  3. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 15, 2008 at 9:09 am

    Gravatar

    I believe that ISO’s problem is that it’s no longer the same ISO. Core people left (pushed out perhaps, fearful of the impact on their reputation, or Microsoft wrath as we’ve already seen in MA).

    It’s called vendor capture. The same problem exists in the industry in fact. Former Microsoft employees can regroup, so to speak, in territories of Microsoft rivals. It happens all the time.

  4. Roy Bixler said,

    April 15, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Gravatar

    The ISO’s call in the “ISO calls for end to OOXML ‘personal attacks’” article seems like a classic attempt to divert attention away from the legitimate questions of the standardisation process which have been brought up. I would hardly characterise the allegations of irregularities as personal attacks. How can the ISO rush to judgement like this when the allegations haven’t even been properly investigated yet?

  5. Victor Soliz said,

    April 15, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Gravatar

    I think saying MSYahoo would be a good thing just because of google being dangerous does not sound right to me.

    Many times MS was not the biggest player around, but once they replaced the marked leader they began their utter abuse, happened with office, .net, etc. If you don’t like the one of the current monopolies, don’t worry, MS can sure make it much worse.

  6. ZiggyFish said,

    April 15, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    Gravatar

    This is where we need to be the most loudest on OOXML. Obviously these protest are starting to sink in to ISO.

  7. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 15, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Gravatar

    I’ve just posted some of the latest details and I still suspect that ISO was radically reformed when Microsoft-disobedient core people left (or were forced out). At this stage, Microsoft will probably try to use incentives for businesses and governments to steer away from ODF. We need to watch out for it. So should the European Commission.

  8. Victor Soliz said,

    April 16, 2008 at 7:27 am

    Gravatar

    Sorry for my last comment I guess I swapped the post It was supposed to go.

  9. LinuxIsFun said,

    April 16, 2008 at 7:33 am

    Gravatar

    Many times MS was not the biggest player around, but once they replaced the marked leader they began their utter abuse, happened with office, .net, etc. If you don’t like the one of the current monopolies, don’t worry, MS can sure make it much worse.

    AFAIK M$ has always been like this. They have done this from the DOS era and keep doing it – that is how they got so big by crushing out competitors using unfair tactics and having no shame for it. They have no business ethics, never competed on quality or innovation but by forcing out other players and shutting them down – like a bully. The list goes on and on…I have never seen such a abusive and pathetic company in my life except for very few like Enron, etc..

  10. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 16, 2008 at 7:43 am

    Gravatar

    Intel’s market is less diverse, but it appears to be similarly behaved in x86.

  11. LinuxIsFun said,

    April 16, 2008 at 7:46 am

    Gravatar

    I have never seen google stooping down to the levels like M$. Maybe they have some privacy issues but thats expected from the internet.

    1. M$ buys out smaller innovative companies and shuts them down.

    Google has never done that. Rather they have incorporated and bought huge values to such companies (youtube, orkut, etc.)

    2. M$ adds their own proprietor extensions to standards to break them and makes everyones life worse. They never work outside M$ and are horribly buggy and unusable (Internet explorer).

    Google uses those standards and never seen them do such cheap things. Google products always works. (jabber, ajax, java, etc.)

    3. M$ uses threats to force people to pay and comply (dell, hp..etc)

    Google innovates and has never used any threat, but rather collaborate with other companies (salesforce.com, etc) on good terms.

    4. People are horrified of getting taken over by M$. Most of it ends in disaster.

    People love to work with google. They are dying to be bought out by them.

    5. M$ is run by lawyers and marketing people

    Google is run by engineers and innovative people.

    GOOGLE has a huge market trust. People love Google. Microsoft have negative market trust. People buy M$ only because of lockins or threats. People hate M$.

  12. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 16, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Gravatar

    GOOGLE has a huge market trust. People love Google. Microsoft have negative market trust.

    To be overly cautious here, I think people used to say the same things about Microsoft in an IBM era. The important thing is to stay alert.

What Else is New


  1. Links 2/9/2015: Chromebooks and Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.2 Beta

    Links for the day



  2. Software Patent From Troll Called 'Rothschild Connected Devices Innovations' a Symptom of a Rotten Patent System

    Another example of patent trolls and software patents as gatekeepers and parasites, denying access to very trivial ideas or implementations



  3. When Even Patent Lawyers' Blogs Acknowledge the Rapid Demise of Software Patents

    Voices for patents are accepting the new order wherein software patents are hardly potent at all (and increasingly difficult to acquire)



  4. Calling Proprietary Software, Software Patents, Lock-in (Like OOXML) and DRM 'Open'

    What Microsoft et al. call 'Next-Generation Open Media Formats' are basically neither open nor acceptable (it's DRM) and what Microsoft apologists dub 'Open Source Tools' are just another example of a Microsoft Office openwashing Trojan horse



  5. Recycled Old News About Vista 10, Stressing That Not Only '10' is Spyware But All of Windows is

    How Microsoft propagandists are spinning Microsoft's gross and potentially illegal privacy violations as a reason to 'upgrade' to Vista 10



  6. Links 1/9/2015: Manjaro Linux 0.8.13, Netrunner 14.2 LTS

    Links for the day



  7. Patents Roundup: IAM's Claims About India, Lawyers' Patent Bias, ITC for Microsoft, and PTAB Against Kyle Bass

    Another weekly summary, focusing on issues that pertain to or affect Free software in particular



  8. Microsoft Crowd Rocks the Media With Misleading Claims and Deliberate Lies About GNU/Linux, Vista 10, and Free/Open Source Software

    A roundup of rigged press coverage, intended purely to serve Microsoft's agenda



  9. Links 31/8/2015: Linux 4.2, LXLE 14.04.3

    Links for the day



  10. IRC Proceedings: August 9th, 2015 – August 29th, 2015

    Many IRC logs



  11. “Conservative” Site Responds (Yet Again) to Misguided “Conservative” Efforts to Derail Patent Reform in the US

    Patent trolls throw stones in glass houses, contributing to their own unpopularity, but some influential “Conservatives” continue to defend (conserve) them



  12. Increase in Lobbying for Software Patents in Europe and Its Trojan Horse, the Unitary Patent (UPC)

    The relentless campaigns to bring software patents into Europe have not stopped and so-called 'unification' -- much like so-called 'trade' deals -- serves to support them



  13. Microsoft Technology Crashes Financial Markets, Again

    SunGard, which is a Microsoft shop, is clearly failing to provide what it calls mission-ciriticaal [sic] solutions



  14. Alice v. CLS Bank (Alice/§101) Comes to Squash Software Patents Even in Eastern District of Texas

    The crackdown on software patents is coming along nicely and the Alice case is now being utilised even in the capital of patent trolls



  15. Apple's Patent Cases Against Android Are Falling Apart, as Acknowledged Even by the Anti-Android Lobby





  16. Links 29/8/2015: NetworkManager 1.0.6, Systemd Merges “su” Command Replacement

    Links for the day



  17. Microsoft Loves Linux to Death and Still Tries to Kill GNU/Linux

    Microsoft's relentless attacks on GNU/Linux and Free software in general (even if it runs on Windows) are so evident that claims of 'love' remain laughable at best (if not infuriating)



  18. Censorship, Self-Censorship and Intimidation Now the Modus Operandi at EPO

    The European Patent Office has ceased even trying to pretend that it respects human rights, including the right to free speech



  19. Patent Practitioners: "The Unitary Patent Might be Able to Open the Floodgates for Software Patents in Europe"

    The EPO-backed Unitary Patent scheme threatens to bring software patents to Europe and along with them a lot of patent trolls from all around the world (especially the United States)



  20. Microsoft Lies About Vista 10 and Increases Microsoft Surveillance (Even Beyond Vista 10 and Into Android, Vista 7/8)

    Windows surveillance expands retroactively, making its way into platforms other than Windows and also expanding to predecessors of Vista 10



  21. Another Suicide at the EPO, Fifth by Our Count

    Yet another EPO member of staff has just committed suicide, leading to the inevitable question: how many people need to die before Battistelli and his minions are out of the Office for good?



  22. Links 27/8/2015: ownCloud Desktop Client 2.0, Red Hat Downgraded

    Links for the day



  23. Microsoft-connected Mesosphere Threatens to Eliminate Free Software in the Datacentre

    Hiding behind a misleading 'open' label while actually backed by Microsoft (and based on new rumours may join Microsoft), Mesosphere wishes to eradicate Free and back doors-free software in large datacentres hosting a lot of physical and virtual servers



  24. Microsoft Aggression Against GNU/Linux Amid Vista 10's Failure

    A look at the recent assault on GNU/Linux in Munich and the likely cause for this assault (in such a timely fashion, too)



  25. Message to LinuxCon Regarding Microsoft: “It is Necessary to Get Behind Someone in Order to Stab Them in the Back.” -Sir Humphrey Appleby

    Jim Zemlin, executive director of the Linux Foundation, helps Microsoft gain influence in the Foundation after payments are received



  26. Market Share Estimates Confirm That Vista 10 Failed in a Major Way

    Confirmatory evidence that Vista 10 is failing in the market about a month after its much-hyped (paid coverage) release



  27. When Microsoft, the Master of Patent Trolls, Complains About Trolls

    Possibly the world's biggest patent abuser and monopolist, which also creates many patent trolls (including by far the biggest one), takes on a far smaller abuser in Court



  28. Letter Signed by Two German Officials Becomes a Microsoft Weapon of Propaganda

    Microsoft and its minions refuse to leave Munich alone, even though the vast majority in Munich are perfectly happy with Free/libre software



  29. Links 25/8/2015: Linux Kernel 4.2 Final RC, KDE Ships Plasma 5.4.0

    Links for the day



  30. Sabine Pfeiler and Otto Seidl Should Take Note as Russia -- Like China -- is in the Process of Banning Microsoft Windows for Security Reasons

    A look at a strange suggestion, signed by Sabine Pfeiler and Otto Seidl, who suggest going back to Microsoft which is basically a spyware company now


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts