EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

04.15.08

ISO’s Alex Brown on OOXML Messiness; ISO Wants Us to Bugger Off

Posted in Formats, ISO, Microsoft, Open XML, OpenDocument, Standard at 8:38 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Crocodiles warning

Earlier today it was mentioned that ISO had essentially been captured by Microsoft and its interests, so it is no longer able to do anything but keep up appearance. This type of psychological game where ISO begs for its reputation to be saved without honest admission of failure (with OOXML) is likely to continue. Yes, all this despite the fact that Groklaw has just found Alex Brown admitting OOXML’s shortcomings.

Here’s a quotation for the ages, from an Alex Brown comment on Andrew Updegrove’s Standards Blog (scroll down) asking Brown if he’d agree that ODF was cleaner than OOXML:

“I’d go with that. I think ISO/IEC 26300 (ODF 1.0) can be compared to a neat house built on good foundations which is not finished; 29500 (OOXML) is a baroque cliffside castle replete with toppling towers, secret passages and ghosts: it is all too finished.”

[...]

I see I am not alone in viewing OOXML as a move of aggression. Microsoft must be realizing by now by the outpouring of dismay all over the world that this isn’t just a typical vendor fight, where winner takes all and everyone shakes hands and moves on. The public cares about ODF, because it realizes it will impact every one of us directly, and we see the obvious, that OOXML is a spoiler. This has nothing to do with market share.

The “keep out” sign is still hanging on ISO’s door. In fact, ISO has openly asked people to stop criticising it, which is vain in and of itself. Despite the many details picked up by Groklaw, ISO apparently sees protests as illegitimate, unjustified. But:

The move came as an ISO committee meeting in Norway attracted protesters, who gathered to call for the retraction of OOXML from the ISO standardisation process.

At the start of April, the document format won enough votes to become a fully fledged ISO standard. Many observers had been against that standardisation, pointing out that the OpenDocument Format (ODF) already existed as an ISO standard, and arguing that OOXML’s documentation contained too many unanswered technical problems to be passed.

This last bit even ISO has already admitted to be true. How long can an explanation be sought for? Why does ISO try to silence its critics? And since when is this attack personal? ISO is not a person.

“ISO should hang their heads in shame for allowing it to happen.”

Tim Bray

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

12 Comments

  1. CoolGuy said,

    April 15, 2008 at 8:42 am

    Gravatar

    boycottiso.com

    wtf ?? they are asking us to keep quite to the injustice that a abusive and greedy corporate monopoly is doing to the ecosystem…hum…

  2. CoolGuy said,

    April 15, 2008 at 8:44 am

    Gravatar

    ISO is just a mere puppet of microsoft now.

  3. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 15, 2008 at 9:09 am

    Gravatar

    I believe that ISO’s problem is that it’s no longer the same ISO. Core people left (pushed out perhaps, fearful of the impact on their reputation, or Microsoft wrath as we’ve already seen in MA).

    It’s called vendor capture. The same problem exists in the industry in fact. Former Microsoft employees can regroup, so to speak, in territories of Microsoft rivals. It happens all the time.

  4. Roy Bixler said,

    April 15, 2008 at 2:26 pm

    Gravatar

    The ISO’s call in the “ISO calls for end to OOXML ‘personal attacks’” article seems like a classic attempt to divert attention away from the legitimate questions of the standardisation process which have been brought up. I would hardly characterise the allegations of irregularities as personal attacks. How can the ISO rush to judgement like this when the allegations haven’t even been properly investigated yet?

  5. Victor Soliz said,

    April 15, 2008 at 2:35 pm

    Gravatar

    I think saying MSYahoo would be a good thing just because of google being dangerous does not sound right to me.

    Many times MS was not the biggest player around, but once they replaced the marked leader they began their utter abuse, happened with office, .net, etc. If you don’t like the one of the current monopolies, don’t worry, MS can sure make it much worse.

  6. ZiggyFish said,

    April 15, 2008 at 4:53 pm

    Gravatar

    This is where we need to be the most loudest on OOXML. Obviously these protest are starting to sink in to ISO.

  7. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 15, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Gravatar

    I’ve just posted some of the latest details and I still suspect that ISO was radically reformed when Microsoft-disobedient core people left (or were forced out). At this stage, Microsoft will probably try to use incentives for businesses and governments to steer away from ODF. We need to watch out for it. So should the European Commission.

  8. Victor Soliz said,

    April 16, 2008 at 7:27 am

    Gravatar

    Sorry for my last comment I guess I swapped the post It was supposed to go.

  9. LinuxIsFun said,

    April 16, 2008 at 7:33 am

    Gravatar

    Many times MS was not the biggest player around, but once they replaced the marked leader they began their utter abuse, happened with office, .net, etc. If you don’t like the one of the current monopolies, don’t worry, MS can sure make it much worse.

    AFAIK M$ has always been like this. They have done this from the DOS era and keep doing it – that is how they got so big by crushing out competitors using unfair tactics and having no shame for it. They have no business ethics, never competed on quality or innovation but by forcing out other players and shutting them down – like a bully. The list goes on and on…I have never seen such a abusive and pathetic company in my life except for very few like Enron, etc..

  10. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 16, 2008 at 7:43 am

    Gravatar

    Intel’s market is less diverse, but it appears to be similarly behaved in x86.

  11. LinuxIsFun said,

    April 16, 2008 at 7:46 am

    Gravatar

    I have never seen google stooping down to the levels like M$. Maybe they have some privacy issues but thats expected from the internet.

    1. M$ buys out smaller innovative companies and shuts them down.

    Google has never done that. Rather they have incorporated and bought huge values to such companies (youtube, orkut, etc.)

    2. M$ adds their own proprietor extensions to standards to break them and makes everyones life worse. They never work outside M$ and are horribly buggy and unusable (Internet explorer).

    Google uses those standards and never seen them do such cheap things. Google products always works. (jabber, ajax, java, etc.)

    3. M$ uses threats to force people to pay and comply (dell, hp..etc)

    Google innovates and has never used any threat, but rather collaborate with other companies (salesforce.com, etc) on good terms.

    4. People are horrified of getting taken over by M$. Most of it ends in disaster.

    People love to work with google. They are dying to be bought out by them.

    5. M$ is run by lawyers and marketing people

    Google is run by engineers and innovative people.

    GOOGLE has a huge market trust. People love Google. Microsoft have negative market trust. People buy M$ only because of lockins or threats. People hate M$.

  12. Roy Schestowitz said,

    April 16, 2008 at 1:17 pm

    Gravatar

    GOOGLE has a huge market trust. People love Google. Microsoft have negative market trust.

    To be overly cautious here, I think people used to say the same things about Microsoft in an IBM era. The important thing is to stay alert.

What Else is New


  1. Links 18/3/2019: Solus 4, Linux 5.1 RC1, Mesa 18.3.5, OSI Individual Member Election Won by Microsoft

    Links for the day



  2. Microsoft and Its Patent Trolls Continue Their Patent War, Including the War on Linux

    Microsoft is still preying on GNU/Linux using patents, notably software patents; it wants billions of dollars served on a silver platter in spite of claims that it reached a “truce” by joining the Open Invention Network and joining the LOT Network



  3. Director Iancu Generally Viewed as a Lapdog of Patent Trolls

    As Director of the Office, Mr. Iancu, a Trump appointee, not only fails to curb patent trolls; he actively defends them and he lowers barriers in order to better equip them with bogus patents that courts would reject (if the targets of extortion could afford a day in court)



  4. Links 17/3/2019: Google Console and IBM-Red Hat Merger Delay?

    Links for the day



  5. To Team UPC the Unified Patent Court (UPC) Has Become a Joke and the European Patent Office (EPO) Never Mentions It Anymore

    The EPO's frantic rally to the very bottom of patent quality may be celebrated by obedient media and patent law firms; to people who actually produce innovative things, however, this should be a worrisome trend and thankfully courts are getting in the way of this nefarious agenda; one of these courts is the FCC in Germany



  6. Links 16/3/2019: Knoppix Release and SUSE Independence

    Links for the day



  7. Stopping António Campinos and His Software Patents Agenda (Not Legal in Europe) Would Require Independent Courts

    Software patents continue to be granted (new tricks, loopholes and buzzwords) and judges who can put an end to that are being actively assaulted by those who aren't supposed to have any authority whatsoever over them (for decisions to be impartially delivered)



  8. The Linux Foundation Needs to Speak Out Against Microsoft's Ongoing (Continued) Patent Shakedown of OEMs That Ship Linux

    Zemlin actively thanks Microsoft while taking Microsoft money; he meanwhile ignores how Microsoft viciously attacks Linux using patents, revealing the degree to which his foundation, the “Linux Foundation” (not about Linux anymore, better described as Zemlin’s PAC), has been compromised



  9. Links 15/3/2019: Linux 5.0.2, Sublime Text 3.2

    Links for the day



  10. The EPO and the USPTO Are Granting Fake Patents on Software, Knowing That Courts Would Reject These

    Office management encourages applicants to send over patent applications that are laughable while depriving examiners the freedom and the time they need to reject these; it means that loads of bogus patents are being granted, enshrined as weapons that trolls can use to extort small companies outside the courtroom



  11. CommunityBridge is a Cynical Microsoft-Funded Effort to Show Zemlin Works for 'Community', Not Microsoft

    After disbanding community participation in the Board (but there are Microsoft staff on the Board now) the "Linux Foundation" (or Zemlin PAC) continues to take Microsoft money and polishes or launders that as "community"



  12. Links 14/3/2019: GNOME 3.32 and Mesa 19.0.0 Released

    Links for the day



  13. EPO 'Results' Are, As Usual, Not Measured Correctly

    The supranational monopoly, a monopoly-granting authority, is being used by António Campinos to grant an insane amount of monopolies whose merit is dubious and whose impact on Europe will be a net negative



  14. Good News Everyone! UPC Ready to Go... in 2015!

    Benoît Battistelli is no longer in Office and his fantasy (patent lawyers' fantasy) is as elusive as ever; Team UPC is trying to associate opposition to UPC with the far right (AfD) once again



  15. Links 13/3/2019: Plasma 5.15.3,Chrome 73 and Many LF Press Releases

    Links for the day



  16. In the Age of Trumpism EFF Needs to Repeatedly Remind Director Iancu That He is Not a Judge and He Cannot Ignore the Courts

    The nonchalance and carelessness seen in Iancu's decision to just cherry-pick decisions/outcomes (basically ignoring caselaw) concerns technologists, who rightly view him as a 'mole' of the litigation 'industry' (which he came from)



  17. Links 12/3/2019: Sway 1.0 Released, Debian Feuds Carry On

    Links for the day



  18. Microsoft is Complaining About Android and Chrome OS (GNU/Linux) Vendor Not Paying for Microsoft Patents (Updated)

    Microsoft, which nowadays does the patent shakedown against GNU/Linux by proxy, is still moaning about companies that don’t pay ‘protection’ money (grounds for antitrust action or racketeering investigation)



  19. Watchtroll Has Redefined "Trolls" to Mean Those Who Oppose Software Patents (and Oppose Trolls), Not Those Who Leverage These for Blackmail Alone

    The controversial change to 35 U.S.C. § 101 guidance is being opposed by the public (US citizens who oppose American software patents), so patent maximalists like Janal Kalis (“PatentBuddy”) and extremists like Gene Quinn (Watchtroll) want us to believe that the public is just “EFF” and cannot think for itself



  20. EPO's Latest 'Results' Show That António Campinos Has Already Given Up on Patent Quality and is Just Another Battistelli

    The patent-granting machine that the EPO has become reports granting growth of unrealistic scale (unless no proper examination is actually carried out)



  21. Links 11/3/2019: Linux 5.0.1, Audacity 2.3.1, GNU Coreutils 8.31

    Links for the day



  22. US Patent Law Currently Not Changing Much and Software Patents Are Still in Limbo

    Surveying the news, as we still meticulously do (even if we don't write about it), it seems clear that American courts hardly tolerate software patents and proponents of such patents are losing their voice (or morale)



  23. EPO Examiner: “I Have Been Against Software Patents and Eventually 3/4 of My Job is Examining Software Patent Applications.”

    Overworked examiners aren't being given the time, the tools and the freedom to reject patents, based on prior art, patent scope and so on; it is beginning to resemble a rubber-stamping operation, not an examining authority



  24. Europe Will Pay a High Price for Software Patents Advocacy by António Campinos in Europe's Patent-Granting Authority

    EPO President António Campinos — like Iancu at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) — is still promoting software patents in Europe even though such patents are clearly detrimental to Europe’s interests



  25. António Campinos -- Like His Father -- Lacks Support From Colleagues, Endorsed Only From the Top

    History lessons from Wikileaks



  26. Links 10/3/2019: GNU and GNOME Releases

    Links for the day



  27. Koch Brothers' Oil Money is Poisoning Academia and Distorting Scholarly Work/Research on Patents

    Meddling in patent law by the Kochs, the oil tycoons who can be seen everywhere Conservative think tanks are, shows no signs of abatement



  28. From Patents on Chewing Gum to Toothpaste Patents: How the EPO Came to Focus on Speed and Volume, Not Quality

    There’s still no proper quality control in place for European Patents — a severe problem which will only further exacerbate the legal uncertainty associated with all European Patents



  29. European Patent Office Press Releases (Two in Two Days) Are Disguised as 'News' and Tell the Opposite of the Truth

    The Office under the 'new' and 'improved' leadership of António Campinos seems to be repeating the mistakes of Battistelli by discrediting anything it says; its press releases, characteristically dubbed "news" for some reason, bear no resemblance to reality and are detached from facts EPO insiders have long known



  30. Links 9/3/2019: International Women’s Day, QtLottie

    Links for the day


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts