Gemini version available ♊︎

#boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 2nd, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 12:43 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

*** Logfile started
*** on Thu May 29 23:51:08 2008
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Join You have joined the channel #boycottnovell (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net).
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Mode zelazny.freenode.net sets the channel mode to ‘no messages from outside’.
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Mode zelazny.freenode.net sets the channel mode to ‘secret’.
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Mode Channel modes: secret, no messages from outside
[Thu May 29 2008] [23:51:08] Created This channel was created on 05/29/2008 11:51:07 PM.
*** Logfile started
*** on Sun Jun 1 13:33:08 2008
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:08] Join You have joined the channel #boycottnovell (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net).
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:08] Channel [freenode-info] please register your nickname…don’t forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:18] <dsmith_> hi roy
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:35] Mode Channel modes: secret, no messages from outside
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:33:35] Created This channel was created on 06/01/2008 12:47:33 PM.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:35:28] Join henrytheeigthiam has joined this channel (i=henry@gateway/tor/x-96321d2920a94cd3).
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:36:40] <henrytheeigthiam> hello schestowitz
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:38:30] <henrytheeigthiam> hello douglas
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:38:38] <henrytheeigthiam> dsmith_, hello
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:38:47] <dsmith_> hi
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:40:49] <henrytheeigthiam> dsmith_, switched from roadrunner to comcast, I see
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:06] <dsmith_> I am not dsmith
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:11] <henrytheeigthiam> VA to MD?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:13] <dsmith_> er.. *the* dsmith
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:19] <henrytheeigthiam> no?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:30] <dsmith_> my name yes, but another person
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:47] <henrytheeigthiam> who are you, then?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:52] <dsmith_> I have never used roadrunner
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:41:56] <dsmith_> dsmith…
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:42:19] <dsmith_> er…dsmith_
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:42:22] <dsmith_> :)
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:53:28] <schestowitz> Hey there.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [13:55:43] <schestowitz> I’ve not noticed activity here until just moments ago and I was going to leave for a while (not the channel, the office).
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:01:41] <henrytheeigthiam> dsmith_, I see
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:02:14] <henrytheeigthiam> schestowitz, have you registered the channel?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:03:00] <schestowitz> I haven’t, no. How do I do this? I think I’ll read the HOWTOs tomorrow. I’m off for about 7 hours. I’ll stay on this channel (idle). :-)
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:03:24] <henrytheeigthiam> schestowitz, you probably won’t notice much action until you publicize it and invite others to collaborate here with you! =)
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:03:56] <henrytheeigthiam> schestowitz, #freenode is a good help, especially since they’ve just switched over
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:04:07] <henrytheeigthiam> some issues with services may have changed
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:04:23] <henrytheeigthiam> the dsmith_ who isn’t dsmith may also help, if he knows anything
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:04:40] <henrytheeigthiam> unless it’s here just to log
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:05:44] <dsmith_> it should be the same as DALnet
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:05:45] <dsmith_> one min
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:24] Notice -ChanServ- Insufficient parameters for INFO.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:24] Notice -ChanServ- Syntax: INFO <#channel>
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:36] Notice -ChanServ- Channel #boycottnovell is not registered.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:49] <dsmith_> ok… its not registed and the commands are the same as Dalnet
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:06:50] <dsmith_> so….
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:06] Notice -ChanServ- Invalid parameters for REGISTER.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:06] Notice -ChanServ- Syntax: REGISTER <#channel>
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:11] <dsmith_> ./chanserv register [#channelname] [password] [description]
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:19] <dsmith_> without the period
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:33] <dsmith_> * This will register your channelname with the selected password and a description of what the channel is about. The description is not important, but must be included in the command. For example: /chanserv register #AllysPlace shazam Ally’s very own channel.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:48] <dsmith_> there you go
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:07:55] <henrytheeigthiam> some commands/features have changed
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:08:06] <henrytheeigthiam> Dalnet? who uses that?
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:09:48] Nick henrytheeigthiam is now known as dsmith___.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:10:21] <dsmith___> what do you know dsmith_
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:10:28] <dsmith___> I am not dsmith either but now I am dsmith___
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:10:32] <dsmith_> lol
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:10:57] <dsmith___> what a small world
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:11:00] Nick You are now known as Steve_Ballmer.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:11:00] Notice -NickServ- This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:11:03] <Steve_Ballmer> hehe
[Sun Jun 1 2008] [14:11:08] <Steve_Ballmer> <—monkey boy
Steve_Ballmer damn its registered….
* Steve_Ballmer blames Linux.
* Steve_Ballmer is now known as dsmith_
dsmith_ brb
* dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
* dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell
dsmith___ log restart?
* dsmith___ is now known as notamonkey
dsmith_ I log all chats
dsmith_ but just for myself
dsmith_ typically I will have a queston, so I will skim my logs in ubuntu
notamonkey me too
notamonkey but I provide mine to several outlets
notamonkey I’m a mercenary
* dsmith_ disdn’t realize one could do that
notamonkey no?
notamonkey indeed
notamonkey especially for various law mil and gov orgs
notamonkey it’s not about money, it’s about achievements
notamonkey each scumfuck I help rid the earth of, the better
notamonkey looks like schestowitz has this one under control, along with a shadowy friend, there’s no need for me here
notamonkey good luck schestowitz
* notamonkey has quit (“Leaving”)
dsmith_ lol
* benJIman (n=benji@benjiweber.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell
* fred (n=fred@slamd64/fred) has joined #boycottnovell
fred benJIman: why am I here?
* lamby (n=lamby@chris-lamb.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell
benJIman What’s going on in dis channel?
* benJIman reads the topic
fred I made you a topic, but I eated it.
dsmith_ hello everyone
lamby Pray, please inform me what is currently happening in this communications medium?
dsmith_ I think he is away
* Received a CTCP PING 1212345452 from dsmith_
dsmith_ [Whois] schestowitz has been idle for 34 minutes and 41 seconds.
* yaloki (n=loki@opensuse/member/pbleser) has joined #boycottnovell
dsmith_ i need to go myself..
* dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
* sadiq (n=sadiq@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk) has joined #boycottnovell
* sadiq (n=sadiq@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk) has left #boycottnovell
* foo-nix (n=herbert@ip54556f1b.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) has joined #boycottnovell
foo-nix omg wtf bbq!
foo-nix it exists!
* Orthemis (n=ptelea@pool-68-162-181-8.pitt.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell
Orthemis I?ve been reading your website recently.  It?s mostly great, though some articles you link to are such thin gruel that they lack interest.  
Orthemis I also wanted to mention that you don?t come across as fanatic or strident.  I get so tired of seeing the spineless weasels of the world make that claim.  Anyway, keep up the good work.  I learned how to IRC just to tell you this.
Orthemis Also, I was wondering I should use FAT32 partition to share information now that MS has a patent.  I haven’t thought through these issues as well as you have.
* Orthemis has quit (Remote closed the connection)
* AlbertoP (n=AlbertoP@chamaleonrouter.visitor.iastate.edu) has joined #boycottnovell
* AlbertoP (n=AlbertoP@chamaleonrouter.visitor.iastate.edu) has left #boycottnovell (“Sto andando via”)
* hassanibraheem (n=hassan@ has joined #boycottnovell
* binbash (i=kafka@c-24-16-158-192.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell
* hassanibraheem has quit (“Ex-Chat”)
* reddsman (n=Dflax@c-68-50-6-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell
* reddsman (n=Dflax@c-68-50-6-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell
* beadyallen (n=ben@82-46-232-54.cable.ubr07.newy.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell
* beadyallen (n=ben@82-46-232-54.cable.ubr07.newy.blueyonder.co.uk) has left #boycottnovell (“Kopete 0.11.3 : http://kopete.kde.org“)
* [H]omer (n=[H]omer@78-32-124-100.no-dns-yet.enta.net) has joined #boycottnovell
[H]omer Yo!
* [H]omer has quit (“Leaving”)
* [H]omer (n=[H]omer@78-32-124-100.no-dns-yet.enta.net) has joined #boycottnovell
* [H]omer is now known as Homer
* Homer is now known as [H]omer
* binbash has quit (Remote closed the connection)
* maxstirner (n=user@ has joined #boycottnovell
* maxstirner has quit (Client Quit)
* jmpnop (n=vacit@cc317631-b.deven1.ov.home.nl) has joined #boycottnovell
jmpnop hello
[H]omer hi
jmpnop Thank you folks of BN, I learned a lot by reading trough the pages and archives!
* foo-nix has quit (Remote closed the connection)
jmpnop still, how acute is the problem anyway? What can they do to GNU/Linux? Its used all over the world. Are sites in China or Hungaria stop hosting distro images because some Judge in the USA tells them to?
* ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell
ZiggyFish good morning
* beadyallen (n=ben@82-46-232-54.cable.ubr07.newy.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell
* beadyallen (n=ben@82-46-232-54.cable.ubr07.newy.blueyonder.co.uk) has left #boycottnovell (“Kopete 0.11.3 : http://kopete.kde.org“)
* ZiggyFish_hp (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell
* ZiggyFish has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
* jmpnop has quit (“Lost terminal”)
* dsmith_ (n=dsmith@ has joined #boycottnovell
* ZiggyFish_hp has quit (“Ex-Chat”)
* jbh (n=jonharpe@c-75-69-164-155.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell
* jbh has quit (“leaving”)
* jbh (n=jonharpe@c-75-69-164-155.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell
jbh trying to figure out irc
jbh it’s been years since I last used it ;)
dsmith_ its easy
schestowitz I’m back. Just catching up now.
* reddsman (n=Dflax@c-68-50-6-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell
* reddsman (n=Dflax@c-68-50-6-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell
dsmith_ roy regsiter the channel
schestowitz Will do… in just a moment. I just caught up with some stuff.Newham’s doing the Microsoft legwork again (Get the Facts tour in the UK).
schestowitz Is this it? http://freenode.net/group_contact_form.shtml
* dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
* cozub (i=[U2FsdGV@linux.fjfi.cvut.cz) has joined #boycottnovell
cozub huh, really :)
cozub hi
* hassanibraheem (n=hassan@ has joined #boycottnovell
schestowitz Hey there.
hassanibraheem hey
schestowitz One thing we can try and do is explore Novell’s recent report and see what they concealed. I guess it might be something worth discussing.
hassanibraheem good, got a link?
schestowitz Here is last year’s report (December): http://www.boycottnovell.com/forms/novel…
schestowitz This is the corresponding document on the SEC’s site: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/758004/000095013…
schestowitz Some quick analysis: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/1…
schestowitz This basically showed that Novell pays Microsoft for sales it makes, based on volume.
schestowitz Here is the latest report’s synopsis: http://biz.yahoo.com/e/080529/novl8-k.html
schestowitz Full report here: http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/Di…
* tessier (n=treed@wsip-68-15-4-27.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell
tessier Woohoo!
tessier schestowitz: Hey Roy :)
schestowitz It can probably be viewed free of charge if you find it on the SEC’s Web site. It would be good to see how they categorise products and which divisions performed poorly (Novell would report nothing about it to the press, but it has to put it in the report).
schestowitz Hey, tessier. Nice to have you online. We’re discussing what Novell might be hiding from the press. Microsoft eats their Netware lunch.
* tessier is Tracy Reed
* tessier waits while everyone googles
schestowitz You’re a friend of Rex, I think. No?
tessier Yeah, sort of. He and I never met but we have exchanged a couple emails.
schestowitz Sadly, he is quite fond of SUSE Linux. He defends it for technical reasons. alone (for those lacking context, Rex Ballard works at IBM). I think that IBM is not doing enough to fight this (it hardly ever did). IBM’s VP of standards shows disdain for Mono though. IBM still has arrangements with Novell.
schestowitz Oh, one more thing.
schestowitz IBM was there when the Microsoft-Novell deal was signed. IBM’s view on patents is something to keep in mind.
* yoonki1 (n=yky@ has joined #boycottnovell
schestowitz I’ve just found this: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article…
yoonki1 hi roy
yoonki1 had a meeting with Oliver Bell almost 2 weeks ago
yoonki1 and he asked about you
yoonki1 …heh.
schestowitz So Datamation, whom I sometimes write for, is still airing that Novell FUD. It also does Endrlie [sic] pieces. *sigh* And then there’s this E-mail marketer (read: legalised spammer) with roots in Novell: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/18525/50/ (Cynthia Richmond)
schestowitz @ <yoonki1>: Heh. Did the “F” word come up?
yoonki1 do you know him?
yoonki1 he tried to downplay your efforts
* baijum (n=baiju@ has joined #boycottnovell
schestowitz I can imagine. What is his professional affiliation (or what puts food on his table)?
yoonki1 He works for Microsoft
yoonki1 and is stationed in the Singaporean office
yoonki1 he is “reaching out” to FOSS guys here
schestowitz “Stationed”. Like colonies.
yoonki1 :)
schestowitz So he’s like the Singaporean Hilf.
yoonki1 Yes.
schestowitz “We come in peace”
yoonki1 yeah
yoonki1 peacemaker of sorts
schestowitz The main problem are those who buy it. Even Asay falls for it.
yoonki1 and tries to convince us that Microsoft is trying very hard to open up
schestowitz *LOL*
schestowitz Open up like a bear trap.
yoonki1 Anyway, here is some evidence that Microsoft has been waging a war against ODF before OOXML
yoonki1 http://www.openmalaysiablog.com/2008…
schestowitz Someone commented on that article which was published about me in LinuxToday a couple of days ago. It said that all Microsoft cares about is profit. Profit, profit, profit.
schestowitz Microsoft measures success in terms of short-term monetary gains.
yoonki1 yes.
schestowitz Has Oliver offered to take you to lunch yet?
yoonki1 We told Oliver that the difference between MS and IBM is that IBM thinks in decade long biz plans, while MS just fights for the quarterly profits
yoonki1 we took oliver out for dinner ;-)
yoonki1 food in Msia is cheap.
yoonki1 He asked me if I knew u
schestowitz Speaking of which, Microsoft is cooking it, you know? That new CFO is some chap from the paper industry in NZ. The previous guy took a hike. The new appointment is odd.
yoonki1 I said no, just from ur blog.
yoonki1 Coincdentally, Ollie will be migrating to NZ soon.
schestowitz PJ tried to get your E-mail addy. Did she get to you at the end?
yoonki1 but still doing the same from Spore
tessier Singapore is a fun place
yoonki1 nope,
schestowitz Never spoke to you?
yoonki1 Only last year.
tessier As is Malaysia. I visited both places a couple years ago.
schestowitz Oh.
yoonki1 tessier: give us a buzz next time ure down
schestowitz It’s good to gather evidence from those Microsoft ran smear gigs against.
tessier yoonki1: Will do. We had a good friend there give us the tour. It was great.
schestowitz @yk, I’m reading your latest post at the moment. Have you seen the photo of Patrick and chaps from Microsoft yet? Maybe they took him out to too many dinners.
yoonki1 schestowitz: Ditesh wrote the post, no me.
tessier I’ve been getting a kick out of the local Windows User Group
tessier Such a huge different from the LUG
yoonki1 schestowitz: yeah, I saw the SC34 outing photo.
yoonki1 they after all will have to work together in SC34.
yoonki1 Its hard being at polar opposites when in the same room.
schestowitz @yk, how did Microsoft (and chums) approach your superiors? Was there slander too?
yoonki1 I think Durusau is just playing nice … for his own sake.
yoonki1 schestowitz: hah.
schestowitz See, that’s a problem (wait while I explain)
yoonki1 schestowitz: I will blog about that one day
yoonki1 schestowitz: its been a year already, and I still feel quite angry
schestowitz Have you read the article “killing with kindness”? It’s social engineering.
schestowitz It’s embarrassing to write about it, I know, but that’s the only way for the story to be told.
yoonki1 Oh. Im just reading it now.
yoonki1 http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story…./a>
schestowitz I had the Munchkins (Gary Stewart, active since the O/S2 Slog) use fake nyms and mass mailing the university, even the President. I can’t let them know that they were successful because they would then repeat it.
schestowitz That’s just one of the earlier incidents (2005 or 2006) when I was still busy with more academic research. I was advised to keep close to a lawyer because of the libel (soon afterwards came the ‘castration’ fables) that trolls still cite as ‘evidence’.
yoonki1 Do you have copies of MS making use of that evidence?
schestowitz PJ told me I must do so, but I rely on Google retaining it.
schestowitz It’s difficult to accuse people because although I have addresses they all post from Web proxies and zombie PCs. Been like this for a decade. They hide traces.
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:23:51 2008
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:24:40 2008
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:24:40 2008
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:25:19 2008
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 2 09:25:19 2008
schestowitz OK, I’ve just registered the channel as ‘dsmith’ had suggested. Jun 02 09:43
*yoonki1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jun 02 10:49
*yoonkit (n=yky@ has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 10:50
schestowitz yoonkit, are you there? Jun 02 10:52
[H]omer Hey Roy Jun 02 10:52
schestowitz Has there been anything going  on here for the past 30 minutes? I got nothing. Jun 02 10:53
schestowitz I was just about to test and see if there was a technical issue. Jun 02 10:53
[H]omer I’ve just come back, so dunno Jun 02 10:53
schestowitz Hmmm… Jun 02 10:54
schestowitz I’ve just posted a pointer about Fedora in BN.com Jun 02 10:54
schestowitz One coming to deal a little blow to Novell… just needs quick proofreading. Jun 02 10:55
yoonkit schestowitz: yes Jun 02 10:55
[H]omer OK Jun 02 10:55
[H]omer Roy, you should set up ChanServ on the channel as well Jun 02 10:56
schestowitz yk, I received nothing from 9:09 to 10:52 (my time).  Was there only silence *here*? Then I got (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) Jun 02 10:56
schestowitz How is this done? I haven’t done IRC since I was about 13. Jun 02 10:56
[H]omer like this “/msg ChanServ set #boycottnovell guard on” Jun 02 10:56
[H]omer like this “/msg ChanServ help” for all the commands Jun 02 10:57
schestowitz “/msg ChanServ set #boycottnovell guard on Jun 02 10:57
schestowitz Oops. Jun 02 10:57
>ChanServ<set #boycottnovell guard on Jun 02 10:57
[H]omer :) Jun 02 10:57
-ChanServ-Channel #boycottnovell is not registered. Jun 02 10:57
schestowitz Oh, I’ve done the registration hours ago. Probably need to just wait now. Jun 02 10:58
[H]omer Have you just now registered your nick on FreeNode? Jun 02 10:59
[H]omer Cos if you gimmie OPs I can probably do it for you (been on here for years) Jun 02 10:59
schestowitz I filled out one of these: http://freenode.net/group_contact_form.shtml Jun 02 10:59
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to [H]omer Jun 02 11:00
yoonkit schestowitz: my line is bad…. keeps cutting off.. and Ive been silent all this while Jun 02 11:01
[H]omer hmm Jun 02 11:01
schestowitz It was dsmith who instructed me. It’s readers that wanted a channel. Jun 02 11:01
schestowitz yk, that’s good to know. It seemed like a silence too long. Jun 02 11:02
schestowitz Thanks, [H]ome Jun 02 11:02
schestowitz [H]omer (bad copy and paste again) Jun 02 11:03
[H]omer You need to type this, otherwise the channel will be registered to me Jun 02 11:03
[H]omer “/msg ChanServ REGISTER #boycottnovell” Jun 02 11:03
>ChanServ<REGISTER #boycottnovell Jun 02 11:03
-ChanServ-You are not logged in. Jun 02 11:03
schestowitz Thanks. Jun 02 11:03
schestowitz Novell appears to be playing Asay at the moment, just like Microsoft plays everyone. I’ll post about it in a minute. Jun 02 11:04
*ChanServ sets mode -s #boycottnovell Jun 02 11:05
*ChanServ sets mode +t #boycottnovell Jun 02 11:05
*ChanServ sets mode +c #boycottnovell Jun 02 11:05
*ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 11:06
*irc.freenode.net gives channel operator status to ChanServ Jun 02 11:06
[H]omer we have channel guard Jun 02 11:06
[H]omer I’ll transfer ownership back now Jun 02 11:06
schestowitz Sounds like intellectual (imaginary) property, but thanks! Jun 02 11:07
*lamby (n=lamby@chris-lamb.co.uk) has left #boycottnovell Jun 02 11:08
[H]omer Your nick isn’t registered, that’s why you weren’t able to claim the channel as a founder Jun 02 11:09
schestowitz I’ll search info on how to register. Just a moment… Jun 02 11:10
[H]omer type “/msg NickServ register schestowitz your-email@address.com” Jun 02 11:12
[H]omer oops, wrong syntax Jun 02 11:15
>NickServ<register schestowitz r@schestowitz.com Jun 02 11:15
-NickServ-You cannot use your nickname as a password. Jun 02 11:15
-NickServ-Syntax: REGISTER <password> <email> Jun 02 11:15
[H]omer type “/msg NickServ register <password> your-email@address.com” Jun 02 11:15
>NickServ<register xxxxx r@schestowitz.com Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-An email containing nickname activation instructions has been sent to r@schestowitz.com. Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-If you do not complete registration within one day, your nickname will expire. Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-schestowitz is now registered to r@schestowitz.com, with the password xxxxx. Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ- Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-Freenode is a service of Peer-Directed Projects Center, an Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-IRS 501(c)(3) (tax-exempt) charitable and educational organization. Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-For frequently-asked questions about the network, please see the Jun 02 11:16
-NickServ-FAQ page (http://freenode.net/faq.shtml). Jun 02 11:16
schestowitz You beat me to it with the instructions by a few seconds. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup Ta for that. Jun 02 11:16
[H]omer BTW: I set up a channel for Slated too ( #slated ) Jun 02 11:16
[H]omer OK this will work now. Type “/msg ChanServ SET #boycottnovell FOUNDER schestowitz” Jun 02 11:19
[H]omer Then you’re all set Jun 02 11:19
schestowitz I need/MSG NickServ VERIFY REGISTER schestowitz tongtkbqbmgu Jun 02 11:19
[H]omer Check your Email for a confirmation message Jun 02 11:20
schestowitz Copy and paste artifacts again. Jun 02 11:20
>NickServ<VERIFY REGISTER schestowitz tongtkbqbmgu Jun 02 11:20
-NickServ-schestowitz has now been verified. Jun 02 11:20
-NickServ-Thank you for verifying your e-mail address! You have taken steps in ensuring that your registrations are not exploited. Jun 02 11:20
*services. sets mode +e schestowitz Jun 02 11:20
>ChanServ<SET #boycottnovell FOUNDER schestowit Jun 02 11:20
-ChanServ-schestowit is not registered. Jun 02 11:20
>ChanServ<SET #boycottnovell FOUNDER schestowitz Jun 02 11:20
-ChanServ-Transfer complete: schestowitz has been set as founder for #boycottnovell. Jun 02 11:20
schestowitz OK, it’s done now. Jun 02 11:21
schestowitz Thanks for the help, mate. Jun 02 11:21
[H]omer “/msg NickServ info schestowitz” Jun 02 11:21
[H]omer “/msg ChanServ info #boycottnovell” Jun 02 11:22
[H]omer Founder    : schestowitz Jun 02 11:22
[H]omer Cool, all done Jun 02 11:22
schestowitz NickServ info schestowitz Jun 02 11:22
>NickServ<info schestowitz Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Information on schestowitz (account schestowitz): Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Registered : Jun 02 10:22:40 2008 (6 minutes, 46 seconds ago) Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Last addr : n=roy@baine.smb.man.ac.uk Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Last seen : now Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Logins from: schestowitz Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Nicks : schestowitz Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Email : r@schestowitz.com (hidden) Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-Flags : HideMail Jun 02 11:22
-NickServ-*** End of Info *** Jun 02 11:22
>ChanServ<info #boycottnovell Jun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Information on #boycottnovell: Jun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Founder : schestowitz Jun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Registered : Jun 02 10:12:35 2008 (17 minutes, 2 seconds ago) Jun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Mode lock : +ntc-slk Jun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-Flags : GUARD Jun 02 11:22
-ChanServ-*** End of Info *** Jun 02 11:22
[H]omer You need to prefix with “/msg” Jun 02 11:23
[H]omer They’re bots … you talk to them :) Jun 02 11:23
schestowitz Yup, I got it working the second time (you just don’t see it). I copy and paste too much and too quickly. Jun 02 11:23
[H]omer copy paste maniac Jun 02 11:24
[H]omer :) Jun 02 11:24
[H]omer OK you can deop me now Jun 02 11:24
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from [H]omer Jun 02 11:24
[H]omer join #slated too Jun 02 11:25
[H]omer It’s lonely in there :( Jun 02 11:25
[H]omer I have this session running on the server, so it’ll stay up permanently Jun 02 11:25
[H]omer Although I don’t need to cos I (we) have ChanServ Jun 02 11:26
[H]omer ChanServ protects the account from netsplit takeovers, etc Jun 02 11:26
[H]omer You could quit and come back, and the channel would still be active … and you still get auto-OPs Jun 02 11:27
[H]omer how about setting a “/topic”? Jun 02 11:28
schestowitz This brings back childhood memory (IRC days). I quite IRC like 10 years ago and IM about 4 years ago. Then I become addicted to ET. Jun 02 11:28
*schestowitz has changed the topic to: Exploring the anti-FOSS deals Jun 02 11:29
[H]omer Yeah, I did IRC for years until ICQ came out Jun 02 11:29
[H]omer Then ICQ started to suck and the software got huge and bloated Jun 02 11:29
schestowitz To be embraced by AOL, INNOVA~1 by Microsoft and then extended. Jun 02 11:29
[H]omer I hate IM now. Jun 02 11:29
[H]omer Ya Jun 02 11:30
*schestowitz has changed the topic to: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications Jun 02 11:34
[H]omer cool Jun 02 11:34
>ChanServ<set #boycottnovell topiclock on Jun 02 11:34
-ChanServ-The TOPICLOCK flag has been set for channel #boycottnovell. Jun 02 11:34
[H]omer Just like BN.com Jun 02 11:34
>ChanServ<set #boycottnovell secure on Jun 02 11:35
-ChanServ-The SECURE flag has been set for channel #boycottnovell. Jun 02 11:35
>ChanServ<set #boycottnovell entrymsg Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel Jun 02 11:36
-ChanServ-The entry message for #boycottnovell has been set to Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel Jun 02 11:36
[H]omer So I think I’m wearing down the Fedora devs to rethink Mono and Firefox Jun 02 11:40
[H]omer x fingers Jun 02 11:40
schestowitz Yes, and it won’t go down well with Waugh et al Jun 02 11:45
schestowitz I guess it’s fair to say on the record that I spoke to some *ahem* people (unnamed) who are friends of Miguel. He does not mean to cause harm harm, but deep inside he probably knows what he does.He knows the side effects. Jun 02 11:46
[H]omer The friend of my enemy is also…. Jun 02 11:48
schestowitz Miguel thinks both sides are friends. They are. To *him*. It’s conquer and divide. Jun 02 11:49
[H]omer I’ve just been given this as a response to my queries about Mono and Firefox: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fre… Jun 02 11:50
schestowitz One in four US computers infected: http://www.smh.com.au/news/security/a-qu… Jun 02 11:50
schestowitz Golly. USAToday said 4 in 10 is a zombie (China has many). Jun 02 11:51
[H]omer Apparently even RMS is “overlooking” the non-Free firmware issue. Jun 02 11:51
schestowitz What is he doing these days anyway? Haven’t read anything in a while. Jun 02 11:52
[H]omer dunno Jun 02 11:53
[H]omer I’ve come to the conclusion that my views on Freedom are even more radical that Stallman’s Jun 02 11:53
[H]omer which is saying quite a lot Jun 02 11:54
cozub sounds scary :-P Jun 02 11:54
hassanibraheem [H]omer: he isn’t overlooking the non-free kernel issue Jun 02 11:55
hassanibraheem he mentioned that issue in a talk I watched recently Jun 02 11:55
schestowitz If you don’t stand up for freedom, you lose it. Show a gap, someone will take advantage. Always. Fight to keep oxygen free, too. :-) Well, suffocating might lead to rebellion… take people to the streets. Jun 02 11:55
hassanibraheem don’t remember which, but RMS’s view on freedom on the web is strange Jun 02 11:56
schestowitz Yeah, on May 1st I attended a talk where he spoke about it. He was showing his XO/OLPC. Jun 02 11:56
hassanibraheem in the Manchester talk I remember he mentioned Google Docs for example Jun 02 11:57
schestowitz @cozub: the media downplays the seriousness of Windows chaos. It can otherwise cause panix Jun 02 11:57
[H]omer “At present, essentially all GNU/Linux distros include the non-free firmware, because it was too hard to remove.  So we decided to overlook the issue for the time being” ~ RMS : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki… Jun 02 11:57
hassanibraheem [H]omer: strange, isn’t that what linux-libre doing in BLAG now? Jun 02 11:58
schestowitz It would not surprise me if the cost of Windows (in)security exceeds a quarter of a trillion worldwide. Jun 02 11:58
hassanibraheem *is doing Jun 02 11:58
[H]omer hmm Jun 02 11:58
[H]omer dunno how old that quote is though Jun 02 11:59
[H]omer Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2006 13:45:49 -0500 Jun 02 11:59
[H]omer He must have tightened up his policy since then Jun 02 12:00
hassanibraheem I don’t think linux-libre was his idea anyway Jun 02 12:00
[H]omer “Why Linus Torvalds tolerates and distributes this I have no idea. He surely has some rationale buried in a LKML flamewar somewhere, but it doesn\u2019t change the fact that there is clearly non-Free code in the Linux kernel.” ~ http://jebba.blagblagblag.org/?p=244 Jun 02 12:03
[H]omer Well Linus does “like Tivoization”, after all Jun 02 12:04
[H]omer Yes, I am far too radical, obviously Jun 02 12:04
hassanibraheem exactly, it’s quite strange, with those big names like IBM , Red Hat, Google, shouldn’t they take those non-free parts out? Jun 02 12:05
[H]omer ;) Jun 02 12:05
hassanibraheem even legally, they should care about this Jun 02 12:05
[H]omer I think I’d like to give BLAG a spin, to see how well it copes with my systems Jun 02 12:06
[H]omer Well I’ve basically just been slapped down by Rahul Sundaram of Fedora with the old “if it’s good enough for RMS, it’s good enough for us” routine Jun 02 12:08
[H]omer Trouble is, RMS doesn’t give special consideration to the predatory nature of Microsoft Jun 02 12:08
schestowitz I’m not sure Linux was ever a big fan of freedom Jun 02 12:09
schestowitz His dad was an activist for communist as I understand it, but Linus started Linux as proprietary (briefly). Jun 02 12:09
hassanibraheem he was developing proprietary kernel modules for some company IIRC, right? Jun 02 12:10
schestowitz I’m not sure what Transmesa hired him for specifically. He is now paid by Intel, which is their rival. Jun 02 12:11
[H]omer To put it as diplomatically as I can … the guys at the “top” of the key areas of Free Software are obviously “pragmatists”. Jun 02 12:14
[H]omer I hate pragmatism with a passion Jun 02 12:15
schestowitz Which guys? The lawyers or engineers? (or the Linux Foundation *sigh*) Jun 02 12:16
schestowitz I think we must look more at analogous situation where people fought suppression of some kind. Apartheid, feminism/sexism, slavery, imperialism, etc. Did they make concessions to achieve their goals? Jun 02 12:18
[H]omer I’m no historian, but somehow those goal were reached … usually by shedding a lot of blood Jun 02 12:21
[H]omer I hope I don’t have to kill people just to get them to wake up and smell the slavery :) Jun 02 12:21
schestowitz Some weeks ago I watched some videos (slightly political) to shed light — not blood — on these questions. It’s fascinating. Some day in the future, assuming FOSS prevails, people would/might look back at the 70/80-?? era when closing of software was experimented with. Jun 02 12:24
schestowitz GNU wares at another school (news): http://www.itp.net/news/520872-sharjah-school-… Jun 02 12:25
hassanibraheem great news, as I’m from egypt :) Jun 02 12:28
[H]omer What is your (all of you) honest opinion of this: “We think there is nothing wrong with distributing free software that implements patented ideas, as long as the patent holders don’t stop you.” ~ RMS Jun 02 12:30
[H]omer I just sent this to the fedora-devel list: “IMO there are two types of threat – direct and implied. One may easily infer that Microsoft’s intentions towards Free Software are not honourable. Are the Christians going to wait until the lions bite their heads off, before deciding to run away?” Jun 02 12:31
schestowitz He fights swpatents. Jun 02 12:31
hassanibraheem [H]omer: I don’t fully agree, but he’s right, the patent system is broken, and nobo Jun 02 12:32
schestowitz We need to fight this at the core too, but only Fester is rattling. PJ reckons they’ll become SCO2. Jun 02 12:32
hassanibraheem * nobody knows what are the borders of such patent claims Jun 02 12:32
[H]omer I think the key word here is “motive” Jun 02 12:33
[H]omer Microsoft’s motives are clear Jun 02 12:33
hassanibraheem however, it’d be silly to write software that the developer knows microsoft has a patent on :) Jun 02 12:33
schestowitz Homer, it’s also an issue of control, not just swpatents. Jun 02 12:34
[H]omer A man with a knife is just a chef chopping carrots, but a psycho with a knife is a killer. Apparently RMS does not make allowances for that WRT Microsoft Jun 02 12:34
schestowitz There’s more than one drum to bang on. If Linux adopts .NET, it might kill Java (GPL). We need Sun and we need choice. (and no, Java ain’t dying) Jun 02 12:35
[H]omer I just don’t see that anyone needs .NET at all Jun 02 12:36
hassanibraheem yes, java ain’t dying, but unfortunately I don’t see it coming to the linux desktop :( Jun 02 12:36
[H]omer Well there is already IcedTea Jun 02 12:36
[H]omer Which is 99% of all Java Jun 02 12:37
[H]omer Unless you mean popularity Jun 02 12:37
hassanibraheem and there is openjdk which I think is now related to IcedTea somehow, but I mean applications Jun 02 12:37
[H]omer AFAICT Java programming is still the No1 job Jun 02 12:37
[H]omer Oh, apps! I see Jun 02 12:38
[H]omer Yes there is a dearth in that area Jun 02 12:38
[H]omer Azureus is about the only one I can name Jun 02 12:38
[H]omer Erm … Jun 02 12:38
[H]omer Nope, that’s all Jun 02 12:38
hassanibraheem and there is FreeMind (I think that’s the name) Jun 02 12:39
schestowitz hassanibraheem, I saw some news about this earlier. I’ll post it in BN later. Jun 02 12:39
[H]omer Well /somebody/ is using it, judging by all the Java job vacancies I keep seeing Jun 02 12:39
[H]omer Enterprise only, I guess Jun 02 12:40
[H]omer sux Jun 02 12:40
hassanibraheem [H]omer: sure, java is great for business and enterprise stuff Jun 02 12:40
schestowitz It’s a broader issue. Jun 02 12:40
schestowitz Java is big ons ervers too. If you lose to .NET on the servers, that’s really bad. Jun 02 12:40
schestowitz Microsoft has plans for server lock-in (REST, XAML, etc) Jun 02 12:40
[H]omer I recall there was a stack that ran on top of Java called AmigaDE, a gaming platform for mobile/UMPC etc. You never hear about that now Jun 02 12:41
[H]omer Nokia were supposed to be adopting it a lot Jun 02 12:41
*iweepyoulaugh (i=iweep@gateway/tor/x-8b6cd453216d6f17) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 12:42
hassanibraheem [H]omer: Nokia, one company that I can’t really understand !!! Jun 02 12:42
[H]omer yeah, bizarre Jun 02 12:42
[H]omer They wan’t Free Software so they can make it non-Free, or something Jun 02 12:42
iweepyoulaugh lol Jun 02 12:43
iweepyoulaugh ok i see an opensuse member, raise your tentacle if you’re a ms shill Jun 02 12:43
iweepyoulaugh too late, I see a few waving! Jun 02 12:43
[H]omer I don’t think they come here without an invite ;) Jun 02 12:44
iweepyoulaugh it’s no surprise that opensuse has a lizard logo and collaborates with ms Jun 02 12:44
iweepyoulaugh you’ve all seen the V series I imagine Jun 02 12:44
iweepyoulaugh [H]omer, they are everywhere Jun 02 12:44
[H]omer It’s a pity, because SuSE (minus Novell) used to be really good Jun 02 12:44
*yoonkit has quit (“bye”) Jun 02 12:45
iweepyoulaugh so did grandma before she dried up Jun 02 12:45
[H]omer I wish Germany would declare war on Novell and reclaim their “territory” Jun 02 12:45
iweepyoulaugh I used to enjoy french kisses and afternoon delights Jun 02 12:45
iweepyoulaugh [H]omer, I have invested in a chicken farm Jun 02 12:46
iweepyoulaugh the ballmer egg video inspired me to do this Jun 02 12:46
iweepyoulaugh every chicken has been kissed on the head and anointed with the holy linux rights Jun 02 12:47
iweepyoulaugh each egg is sacred and will be added to a warehouse of eggs Jun 02 12:47
schestowitz I has SUSE at home and at work for years. Jun 02 12:47
iweepyoulaugh this new chicken army will reign surpreme Jun 02 12:48
iweepyoulaugh sure schestowitz, play it up Jun 02 12:48
iweepyoulaugh let’s kiss some ass Jun 02 12:48
schestowitz No, no. Jun 02 12:48
iweepyoulaugh anyone who wears the suse tag is a whore Jun 02 12:48
schestowitz The point I am making is that I turned from a SUSE/Novell fan into a critic. Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaugh yes yes Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaugh you either shit or get off the pot Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaugh the suse people are turd gobblers Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaugh haven’t we all? Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaugh the intelligent ones, I mean Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaugh bunch of scat munching MS lovers Jun 02 12:49
schestowitz Easy buddy, with the language. It can be used against us. Jun 02 12:49
iweepyoulaugh darnit all I have to go, my grandpa needs his rod greased Jun 02 12:50
*iweepyoulaugh has quit (“Leaving”) Jun 02 12:50
schestowitz SUSE users are caught in the middle. It’s Novell where the suits want to secure their paycheck. Jun 02 12:50
*Received a DCC CHAT offer from [H]omer Jun 02 12:50
*DCC CHAT connection established to [H]omer [] Jun 02 12:51
schestowitz Just gone, eh? Jun 02 12:52
[H]omer yeah, you want to kickban idiots like that Jun 02 12:53
schestowitz Call me what you will, but I’ve heard from people that poisoning of sites is done in this way (obscene language). Jun 02 12:53
[H]omer yes I believe it Jun 02 12:53
schestowitz Just watch /. for an example (before they cleaned up around 2006). Jun 02 12:53
[H]omer Bet you that was Nudds Jun 02 12:53
schestowitz The Scott Douglas Munchkin, eh? What the S* references. Jun 02 12:54
[H]omer yup Jun 02 12:54
*DCC CHAT to [H]omer aborted. Jun 02 12:54
[H]omer His style Jun 02 12:54
hassanibraheem schestowitz: do u believe that the news u linked about Sharjah School isn’t available in the arabic version of the site :( Jun 02 12:57
[H]omer lol Jun 02 12:57
[H]omer I worked in the middle-east for a while. They ain’t Free Software fanatics Jun 02 12:57
schestowitz I won’t pass this around outside (because it’s Maureen O’Gara, who spied on PJ and played up SCO), but see http://linux.sys-con.com/read/579238.htm . She usually tries to boost Novell at Red Hat’s expense. She’s anti-ODF too. Anti-RMS. You name it. Blatantly. Jun 02 12:58
hassanibraheem [H]omer: yup , unfortunately Jun 02 12:58
[H]omer I refuse to visit linux.sys-con.com on religious grounds (aversion to spam) Jun 02 12:59
schestowitz Yes, I believe this because Heise is the same. You know what’s sad? All the good news about FOSS comes outside the UK/US/CA, so all we ever see is Linux news from SA and some stuff in foreign languages. Jun 02 12:59
[H]omer That’s not sad, it’s just typical. The West is money-obsessed Jun 02 13:00
[H]omer Free == Bad Jun 02 13:00
schestowitz The English press is fighting (suppressing) FOSS because of the money trail, which is tied to that same ol’ solidarity. Jun 02 13:00
[H]omer Yes indeed Jun 02 13:00
hassanibraheem unfortunately, in egypt, they’re not money-obssesed Jun 02 13:01
hassanibraheem they’re microsoft-obssesed Jun 02 13:01
[H]omer lol Jun 02 13:01
schestowitz There are some blogs where people translate articles about migrations. Jun 02 13:01
[H]omer hassanibraheem: Is that where you are now? Jun 02 13:01
*cyberorg (n=cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 13:02
hassanibraheem [H]omer: yup Jun 02 13:02
schestowitz hassanibraheem, same thing. People are like birds following the seeds. Jun 02 13:02
cyberorg wow there are a dozen people here :) Jun 02 13:02
[H]omer the borg! the borg! Full power to the main deflector dish Jun 02 13:02
schestowitz money-obsessed and  microsoft-obsessed are not mutually exclusive. Jun 02 13:02
cyberorg hi schestowitz, nice of you to digg my post :) Jun 02 13:03
[H]omer hassanibraheem: how’s the weather? ;) Jun 02 13:03
schestowitz Thanks. Which one? Who are you? :-) Jun 02 13:03
hassanibraheem [H]omer: kinda hot :D Jun 02 13:04
[H]omer hassanibraheem: I was in Kuwait in 2003 … out in the desert Jun 02 13:04
hassanibraheem [H]omer: it’s hot, but I’m quite sure not like Kuwait :D Jun 02 13:04
[H]omer hassanibraheem: In February at 9AM it was 50oC in the shade Jun 02 13:04
[H]omer hassanibraheem: I came within 1000 feet of two exploding SCUDS Jun 02 13:05
[H]omer hassanibraheem: they were destroyed above my head by Rapier missiles Jun 02 13:06
hassanibraheem [H]omer: oh Jun 02 13:06
[H]omer hassanibraheem: I got knocked back on my ass about 15 feet Jun 02 13:06
hassanibraheem [H]omer: what was that for? Jun 02 13:07
[H]omer hassanibraheem: I hated that job :) Jun 02 13:07
[H]omer hassanibraheem: civilian contract to the US armed forces Jun 02 13:07
hassanibraheem [H]omer: civilian? :D Jun 02 13:08
[H]omer hassanibraheem: yeah, the nearest I got to military duty was when I was in the boy scouts Jun 02 13:08
[H]omer hassanibraheem: those Yanks can’t do anything themselves Jun 02 13:09
[H]omer ;) Jun 02 13:09
hassanibraheem :D Jun 02 13:09
[H]omer Actually Kuwait City is fascinating Jun 02 13:10
[H]omer It’s a mixture of extreme opulence and bullets Jun 02 13:10
*cyberorg (n=cyberorg@opensuse/member/Cyberorg) has left #boycottnovell (“Leaving”) Jun 02 13:11
schestowitz I had a conversation about this the other day (world’s supply of oil and those fighting for it). Education is key. Jun 02 13:11
[H]omer Did you know that the Kuwait government /pay/ all their citizens an “incentive” to stay in Kuwait. It’s like 2 or 3 grand a month! Jun 02 13:12
[H]omer Really! Jun 02 13:12
schestowitz If I were to try to nudge this off topic, I’d say that Microsoft is very much the same in the sense that it always looks for new revenue drills (Zune, XBox). Jun 02 13:12
[H]omer Bah Microsoft Jun 02 13:13
[H]omer They need to die Jun 02 13:13
[H]omer Please God send an earthquake to Redmond Jun 02 13:13
hassanibraheem I dunno what microsoft is up to for the middle-east Jun 02 13:13
[H]omer Actually it’s not just Microsoft. The “greed” culture in endemic in the West Jun 02 13:14
hassanibraheem its internet plan will fail here, for sure Jun 02 13:14
[H]omer They plan on being an ISP? Jun 02 13:14
[H]omer Or search/ads Jun 02 13:15
hassanibraheem no, that dream of competing with google and Windows Live thing Jun 02 13:15
[H]omer That Yahoo thing was hilarious Jun 02 13:15
[H]omer Lose 30 Billion USD just to /try/ to buy a company. LOL Jun 02 13:15
[H]omer And the whole Live Services thing is a joke too. Look at the mess Xbox people are in Jun 02 13:16
[H]omer How safe is your Xbox account? Hmmmm Jun 02 13:16
[H]omer OneCare Live is a mess Jun 02 13:17
hassanibraheem btw, shouldn’t those Live Services in Windows 7 trigger some anti-trust investigations? Jun 02 13:17
[H]omer Yes Jun 02 13:17
[H]omer Everything MS does should trigger major investigations Jun 02 13:17
schestowitz hassanibraheem, in the ME, Microsoft seems to have made many partnerships and crackdown recently. I watch  Microsoft closely, so I see this frequently. More than before. Jun 02 13:18
schestowitz Xbox staff is leaving in big numbers. Or left. It wouldn’t surprise me if they moved these ops to China. Jun 02 13:19
hassanibraheem schestowitz: in my college, they are very microsof-obssesed Jun 02 13:19
hassanibraheem schestowitz: a friend of mine told me once that the college is “sponsored” by microsoft Jun 02 13:20
schestowitz hassanibraheem, I saw that W7 antitrust thing about a year ago when an article came up. The EC is already probing this using a current build. Jun 02 13:20
schestowitz “Get them while they are young” Jun 02 13:20
schestowitz Same in France now. Microsoft-sponsored Unis, thanks to the president. They influence the curriculum too. They teach kids about IP now. And patents. Whatever works well for overseas monopolies. Jun 02 13:21
hassanibraheem schestowitz: c# and stuff, and huge discounts on Microsoft’s products, while microsoft enjoys tax “discounts” from the country too Jun 02 13:21
hassanibraheem big companies aren’t fascinated by microsoft, but, they are somehow restricted to what the community has Jun 02 13:22
hassanibraheem and in that case it’s .NET developers Jun 02 13:22
schestowitz Yes, yes. They try to capture people and use gratis strategy to ensure the kids don’t turn to FOSS. It was in the news a while ago. Jun 02 13:23
[H]omer Well I need to get some work done. Cya later tonight. Jun 02 13:23
schestowitz I was once taught at school about Egypt cycle of poverty. it’s the same with Microsoft. It’s a cycle. Jun 02 13:23
hassanibraheem the OLPC news makes me really angry, they quote egyptian ministers question “do you run windows?” everywhere Jun 02 13:24
hassanibraheem it’s really ugly, when the government says “don’t give us free software, we need windows” !!! Jun 02 13:25
schestowitz There was a similar thing in Romania last year. The president/PM thanked Windows ‘piracy’, saying it built the nation. Jun 02 13:27
hassanibraheem “built” ? like “our country is ready for microsoft taking control” ? :D Jun 02 13:27
schestowitz Heh. Jun 02 13:35
schestowitz Well, I meant to suggest that diplomats use Windows, so they can’t think of anything else. They also need to justify their own choice. Jun 02 13:36
schestowitz Fortunately, SA, part of the EU and South America start moving the government to FOSS, so this cyclic trap might be avoided. Jun 02 13:36
*JukeBoxer (n=asdjj9uo@ has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 13:38
JukeBoxer hii Jun 02 13:39
JukeBoxer i just emailed pj asking to clarify the mono convent Jun 02 13:39
schestowitz hi Jun 02 13:39
JukeBoxer lets see what grok says abt mono Jun 02 13:39
schestowitz Thanks, maybe she’ll be tight-lipped Jun 02 13:39
schestowitz It’s a controversial subject, so she quoted Bradley. Jun 02 13:40
JukeBoxer just installed fedora.. its faster than ubuntu but i still like ubuntu Jun 02 13:40
schestowitz Mandriva looks quite decent too. Jun 02 13:40
JukeBoxer i knoww…ubuntu has lot of packages.. Jun 02 13:41
JukeBoxer :) Jun 02 13:41
schestowitz AlanW is running around trying to spread the message everywhere (LY, OSNews, Digg), but I haven’t seen many bad reviews. Can’t say the same about Ubuntu 8.04. Jun 02 13:41
schestowitz Even Beranger is OK(ish) with it. Jun 02 13:42
*fred (n=fred@slamd64/fred) has left #boycottnovell (“*SIGH*”) Jun 02 13:44
*JukeBoxer has quit (“Leaving”) Jun 02 13:51
*baijum has quit (“Ex-Chat”) Jun 02 13:59
*bluefacepaint (i=blueface@gateway/tor/x-b2e3ba392b77b918) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 15:24
bluefacepaint wow this is real channel, saw the slashdot posting Jun 02 15:25
hassanibraheem bluefacepaint: it’s on slashdot? Jun 02 15:25
bluefacepaint someone posted a message there Jun 02 15:26
bluefacepaint thought I’d try this out Jun 02 15:26
hassanibraheem :) Jun 02 15:26
bluefacepaint not much happening at the moment or is it scheduled chats? Jun 02 15:27
hassanibraheem it’s still the first day (or second I think) , so we discuss stuff as they come out Jun 02 15:28
hassanibraheem and anyone can start a discussion ofcorse :) Jun 02 15:28
bluefacepaint oh okay Jun 02 15:28
bluefacepaint I would like a boycottnovell screensaver Jun 02 15:29
hassanibraheem but, why were u amazed anyway ? :D Jun 02 15:29
bluefacepaint Because usually the communication is web based Jun 02 15:30
bluefacepaint People start forums or mailing lists Jun 02 15:30
bluefacepaint how is my text showing up Jun 02 15:31
hassanibraheem great! ? :D Jun 02 15:31
bluefacepaint goodie I hope so Jun 02 15:31
bluefacepaint it’s hard to use this chat Jun 02 15:31
bluefacepaint I ate something strange earlier now everything is melting Jun 02 15:31
bluefacepaint cant concentrate gotta go Jun 02 15:32
hassanibraheem yup, but it appears many people are used to it :D Jun 02 15:32
hassanibraheem so, I should look for an IRC beginner guide :D Jun 02 15:32
bluefacepaint hope chat is good i like blue worlds Jun 02 15:32
bluefacepaint blue worlds with blue birds without a TAILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLl Jun 02 15:32
bluefacepaint my eyes bleed inside Jun 02 15:32
bluefacepaint they cry for light Jun 02 15:32
bluefacepaint they say light light birds in flight Jun 02 15:32
bluefacepaint seashells in the ears are fancy delight Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaint i cannot swim i cannot breathe Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaint but i can tease the oysters of the stream Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaint dont know CRYSTAL CLEAR OCEANS are for the skimming Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaint you skim thoughts ACROSS the water! Jun 02 15:33
hassanibraheem ? Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaint did you know this Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaint you can transfer thought across the surface of water Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaint I have done this several times Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaint this is how you COMMUNICATE with sea creatures Jun 02 15:33
bluefacepaint life beneath the ocean Jun 02 15:34
bluefacepaint it is BEAUTIFUL and I fly now Jun 02 15:34
bluefacepaint fly fly fly Jun 02 15:34
bluefacepaint you fly back to school now Jun 02 15:34
bluefacepaint starling Jun 02 15:34
bluefacepaint fly fly fly Jun 02 15:34
bluefacepaint fly fly fly Jun 02 15:34
*bluefacepaint has quit (“Leaving”) Jun 02 15:34
schestowitz Weird. It’s the second time someone comes, drops some inane words and walks away. At least no vulgarities this time. :-) Jun 02 15:46
schestowitz Microsoft seems to be gaining or retaining some control inside ISO. I’ll post something about it shortly. Jun 02 15:47
hassanibraheem schestowitz: good, and about that guy, if the channel is really on slashdot, so we should expect more ;) Jun 02 15:51
schestowitz I no longer read Slashdot. I don’t trust it under the current editorship, but if it’s there, it can’t do harm. I’ve received a mail an hour ago about Ladislav (DistroWatch) posting pro-SUSE material. Someone thought it was a Novell plant. Jun 02 15:59
schestowitz I’m going to be away for a long while. I’ll stay connected though. Jun 02 16:24
hassanibraheem ok, hope there are no more nonsense visitors :D Jun 02 16:25
*reddsman (n=Dflax@ has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 16:50
*reddsman (n=Dflax@ has left #boycottnovell Jun 02 16:51
cozub lol to bluefacepaint, thanks to him it feels like real IRC :)) Jun 02 17:42
hassanibraheem :D Jun 02 17:43
*hassanibraheem has quit (“Ex-Chat”) Jun 02 18:14
*yaloki (n=loki@opensuse/member/pbleser) has left #boycottnovell Jun 02 19:53
*hassanibraheem (n=hassan@ has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 20:38
hassanibraheem hey Jun 02 20:39
hassanibraheem check this out Jun 02 20:39
hassanibraheem http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/pr… Jun 02 20:39
hassanibraheem hello? :D Jun 02 21:01
cozub well… I never liked HP Jun 02 21:13
hassanibraheem I don’t like HP, and I never liked toolbars, too Jun 02 21:16
cozub yeah, those add-on toolbars suck Jun 02 21:17
cozub but if it’s gonna be included in the default crapware that comes with a pc, then it will generate some hits for m$ Jun 02 21:17
hassanibraheem but, the real issue is silverlight, those OSs will come pre-contaminated !! Jun 02 21:18
schestowitz That would server Microsoft’s goal. Only Windows would play nice on the XAML Web. Let’s see the press release (i’ve just come back). Jun 02 22:54
schestowitz “serve Microsoft’s goals” I meant to say. Now I see it. They play dirty, based on the PR above. And H-P helps them, as usual. Jun 02 22:59
hassanibraheem I wonder if it’s a part of a bigger plan Jun 02 23:00
hassanibraheem that may include whatever they buy from yahoo , and facebook, as rumored Jun 02 23:00
schestowitz Woohoo! Another nation has just appealed OOXML. Jun 02 23:05
schestowitz I suspected that it’ll happen on Monday. Jun 02 23:06
hassanibraheem appealed? Jun 02 23:06
schestowitz Yes, Venezuela Jun 02 23:06
hassanibraheem isn’t the deadline over? Jun 02 23:06
schestowitz Yes, but maybe it wasn’t visible until now. I don’t know the rules too well, but they bend them. Jun 02 23:06
schestowitz “By Monday, though, the IEC had relaxed its interpretation of the directive: Venezuela’s appeal, although filed after May 29, “was filed within the two months of the BRM [ballot resolution meeting] closing so that it is being accepted. (The BRM closed on 29 March 2008 so the interpretation is that the last calendar day of May is being applied),” Buck wrote in an e-mail. Jun 02 23:09
schestowitz Jun 02 23:09
hassanibraheem nice :) Jun 02 23:10
schestowitz Maybe Denmark too. Jun 02 23:10
schestowitz This is good. Jun 02 23:10
[H]omer that was a busy day Jun 02 23:11
[H]omer what’s been happening? Jun 02 23:12
schestowitz Microsoft’s control of ISO becomes clearer. Jun 02 23:13
schestowitz Honestly. It’s subtle, but you can see the influence. Jun 02 23:13
[H]omer it’s pretty blatant i’d say Jun 02 23:13
[H]omer lemme check my mail Jun 02 23:14
*hassanibraheem has quit (“Ex-Chat”) Jun 02 23:18
*reddsman (n=Dflax@c-68-50-6-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 23:35
reddsman The reality is that exclusionary deals with MS are bad. Jun 02 23:36
reddsman MS will just extinguish everything if you make a deal with them. Jun 02 23:37
schestowitz Yes, even  HP. Jun 02 23:38
schestowitz Although this one is a move against Google: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/06/02/mi… Jun 02 23:38
reddsman True.  Forgot about HP. Jun 02 23:38
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 02 23:38
schestowitz hey dsmith_ Jun 02 23:38
schestowitz Got logs from yesterday? I accidentally disabled logging at the start. Jun 02 23:39
dsmith_ hi Jun 02 23:39
dsmith_ i believe I do Jun 02 23:39
dsmith_ yep Jun 02 23:39
reddsman Wow guess I’ll dump my one HP machine. Jun 02 23:39
schestowitz Can you mail them to me ( roy @ schestowiitz . com )? Please? Jun 02 23:39
reddsman dsmith you live in MD, so do I Jun 02 23:40
schestowitz Oops. One “I”, not two. Jun 02 23:40
dsmith_ ok Jun 02 23:40
dsmith_ hello reddsman Jun 02 23:40
dsmith_ there is a ubuntu MD LUG around Jun 02 23:40
schestowitz H-P is a weirdo OEM because it does a bit of Linux too, but their Linux (mainly Debian) division is like Microsoft Port 25. Jun 02 23:40
dsmith_ brb Jun 02 23:40
reddsman cool. Jun 02 23:41
reddsman I’ve been playing with ubuntu a bit.  It’s really nice. Jun 02 23:41
schestowitz Package management in Ubuntu seems good. Jun 02 23:42
reddsman I use it on my main machine.  Unfortunately I need Microsucks for work but that’s another story. Jun 02 23:42
schestowitz They dropped the ball with 8.04 (I haven’t tried it though). Jun 02 23:42
schestowitz I haven’t used Windows for years. It might be hard getting used to click-to-focus . Jun 02 23:43
schestowitz http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9956880-7.h… Jun 02 23:44
dsmith_ sent roy Jun 02 23:44
schestowitz Hahaha! Best thing found so far today. This confirms (again) that it’s the next Zuneral. Jun 02 23:44
reddsman I need IE for an internal website or two Jun 02 23:44
schestowitz Thanks a million, dsmith Jun 02 23:44
dsmith_ np Jun 02 23:44
schestowitz <reddsman>, you can run multiple versions of IE under GNU/Linux. Jun 02 23:45
dsmith_ reddsman: have you tried ies4linux? Jun 02 23:45
dsmith_ or perhaps user agent switcher Jun 02 23:45
dsmith_ Referring to H-P, I noticed the other day that one can purchase a lenovo laptop sans an OS Jun 02 23:46
dsmith_ they do offer Suse of course, bleh Jun 02 23:46
reddsman No I haven’t tried ieslinux.  I can try it tomorrow. Jun 02 23:47
dsmith_ its version 6 but it works… Jun 02 23:47
reddsman That’s fine.  I hate 7 anyway. Jun 02 23:48
schestowitz dmith, that’s good (Lenovo news). Price would be interesting. Jun 02 23:48
reddsman That is good news. Jun 02 23:48
dsmith_ let me find the linkagain Jun 02 23:48
reddsman gotta run fellas. Jun 02 23:48
schestowitz dsmith, you can run IE7 now, I think. Jun 02 23:48
*reddsman (n=Dflax@c-68-50-6-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell Jun 02 23:48
schestowitz I never used it, but you can run multiple versions at the same time (can’t do that in Windows) Jun 02 23:49
dsmith_ http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/con… Jun 02 23:51
dsmith_ look under operating system Jun 02 23:51
dsmith_ ThinkPad PC DOS License Jun 02 23:52
dsmith_ i know for a fact that the video and wireless will work just by reading the specs Jun 02 23:52
dsmith_ schestowitz: I have no need for ie7 PERIOD Jun 02 23:54
schestowitz Me neither. Jun 02 23:55
schestowitz It’s a shame they don’t just sell people hardware. They certify for Ubuntu, Fedora and SUSE, IIRC, at least at Lenovo. Jun 02 23:55
schestowitz They pocket the savings (OS) though. Jun 02 23:56
schestowitz $11.25 Jun 02 23:58
Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.


  1. Dan O'Brian said,

    June 4, 2008 at 7:19 am


    Good to see that your “zomg! the sky is falling! you need to drop mono from your distro!” antics have failed yet again.

    When every single distro you try these shenanigans with laughs in your face and tells you that you’re wrong, maybe it’s time to rethink your (flawed) logic.

  2. max stirner said,

    June 4, 2008 at 10:28 am


    addiction to ET? is that enemy territory?

  3. Roy Schestowitz said,

    June 4, 2008 at 10:31 am


    Yes, I still have the memories.

  4. max stirner said,

    June 4, 2008 at 11:09 am


    family album type collection! lovely stuff

    i did actually play it for a while just because q3 games offered the best ents available on linux, as i’ve been on a personal MS-boycott-crusade since 2002. later i played quite a bit of urban terror (also linux native obviously).

  5. Roy Schestowitz said,

    June 4, 2008 at 11:35 am


    Linux.com has just published a review of it (yesterday):


  6. Max Stirner said,

    June 4, 2008 at 1:17 pm


    did spot that, thanks :) deleted it one day, as i deleted the infamous CS at the end of my windows phase in 2001. cold turkey!

DecorWhat Else is New

  1. Don't Fall for Microsoft's Spin That Says Everything is Not Secure and Cannot be Secured

    Microsoft keeps promoting the utterly false concept that everything is not secure and there's nothing that can be done about it (hence, might as well stay with Windows, whose insecurity is even intentional)

  2. At Long Last: 2,000 Known Gemini Capsules!

    The corporate media, looking to appease its major sponsors (such as Web/advertising giants), won't tell you that Gemini Protocol is rising very rapidly; its userbase and the tools available for users are rapidly improving while more and more groups, institutions and individuals set up their own capsule (equivalent of a Web site)

  3. Links 26/1/2022: Gamebuntu 1.0, PiGear Nano, and Much More

    Links for the day

  4. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, January 25, 2022

    IRC logs for Tuesday, January 25, 2022

  5. Links 26/1/2022: No ARM for Nvidia, End of EasyArch, and WordPress 5.9 is Out

    Links for the day

  6. Why the Unified Patent Court (UPC) is Still Just a Fantasy and the UPC's Fake News Mill Merely Discredits the Whole Patent 'Profession'

    Patents and science used to be connected; but now that the patent litigation 'sector' is hijacking patent offices (and even courts in places like Texas) it's trying to shove a Unified Patent Court (UPC) down the EU's throat under the disingenuous cover of "community" or "unity"

  7. Links 25/1/2022: Vulkan 1.3 Released, Kiwi TCMS 11.0, and antiX 19.5

    Links for the day

  8. Gemini Milestones and Growth (Almost 2,000 Known Gemini Servers Now, 39,000 Pages in Ours)

    The diaspora to Gemini Protocol or the transition to alternative 'webs' is underway; a linearly growing curve suggests that inertia/momentum is still there and we reap the benefits of early adoption of Gemini

  9. [Meme] Get Ready for Unified Patent Court (UPC) to be Taken to Court

    The Unified Patent Court (UPC) and Unitary Patent system that’s crafted to empower EPO thugs isn’t legal and isn’t constitutional either; even a thousand fake news 'articles' (deliberate misinformation or disinformation) cannot change the simple facts because CJEU isn’t “trial by media”

  10. The EPO Needs High-Calibre Examiners, Not Politicians Who Pretend to Understand Patents and Science

    Examiners are meant to obstruct fake patents or reject meritless patent applications; why is it that working conditions deteriorate for those who are intellectually equipped to do the job?

  11. Free Software is Greener

    Software Freedom is the only way to properly tackle environmental perils through reuse and recycling; the mainstream media never talks about it because it wants people to "consume" more and more products

  12. Links 25/1/2022: Git 2.35 and New openSUSE Hardware

    Links for the day

  13. IRC Proceedings: Monday, January 24, 2022

    IRC logs for Monday, January 24, 2022

  14. Links 25/1/2022: GPL Settlement With Patrick McHardy, Godot 4.0 Alpha 1, and DXVK 1.9.4 Released

    Links for the day

  15. Proprietary Software is Pollution

    "My daughter asked me about why are we throwing away some bits of technology," Dr. Andy Farnell says. "This is my attempt to put into words for "ordinary" people what I tried to explain to a 6 year old."

  16. Microsoft GitHub Exposé — Part XV — Cover-Up and Defamation

    Defamation of one’s victims might be another offence to add to the long list of offences committed by Microsoft’s Chief Architect of GitHub Copilot, Balabhadra (Alex) Graveley; attempting to discredit the police report is a new low and can get Mr. Graveley even deeper in trouble (Microsoft protecting him only makes matters worse)

  17. [Meme] Alexander Ramsay and Team UPC Inciting Politicians to Break the Law and Violate Constitutions, Based on Misinformation, Fake News, and Deliberate Lies Wrapped up as 'Studies'

    The EPO‘s law-breaking leadership (Benoît Battistelli, António Campinos and their corrupt cronies), helped by liars who don't enjoy diplomatic immunity, are cooperating to undermine courts across the EU, in effect replacing them with EPO puppets who are patent maximalists (Europe’s equivalents of James Rodney Gilstrap and Alan D Albright, a Donald Trump appointee, in the Eastern and Western Districts of Texas, respectively)

  18. Has the Administrative Council Belatedly Realised What Its Job in the European Patent Organisation Really Is?

    The "Mafia" which took over the EPO (the EPO's own workers call it "Mafia") isn't getting its way with a proposal, so it's preventing the states from even voting on it!

  19. [Meme] Team UPC is Celebrating a Pyrrhic Victory

    Pyrrhic victory best describes what's happening at the moment (it’s a lobbying tactic, faking/staging things to help false prophecies be fulfilled, based on hopes and wishes alone), for faking something without bothering to explain the legal basis is going to lead to further escalations and complaints (already impending)

  20. Links 24/1/2022: Scribus 1.5.8 and LXLE Reviewed

    Links for the day

  21. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, January 23, 2022

    IRC logs for Sunday, January 23, 2022

  22. [Meme] Team UPC Congratulating Itself

    The barrage of fake news and misinformation about the UPC deliberately leaves out all the obvious and very important facts; even the EPO‘s António Campinos and Breton (Benoît Battistelli‘s buddy) participated in the lying

  23. Links 24/1/2022: pgBadger 11.7 Released, Catch-up With Patents

    Links for the day

  24. The Demonisation and Stereotyping of Coders Not Working for Big Corporations (or 'The System')

    The war on encrypted communication (or secure communications) carries on despite a lack of evidence that encryption stands in the way of crime investigations (most criminals use none of it)

  25. On the 'Peak Hacker' Series

    Hacker culture, unlike Ludditism, is ultimately a movement for justice, for equality, and for human rights through personal and collective emancipation; Dr. Farnell has done a good job explaining where we stand and his splendid series has come to a close

  26. Links 23/1/2022: First RC of Linux 5.17 and Sway 1.7 Released

    Links for the day

  27. Peak Code — Part III: After Code

    "Surveillance perimeters, smart TVs (Telescreens built to Orwell's original blueprint) watched over our living rooms. Mandatory smart everything kept us 'trustless'. Safe search, safe thoughts. We withdrew. Inside, we went quietly mad."

  28. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, January 22, 2022

    IRC logs for Saturday, January 22, 2022

  29. Links 23/1/2022: MongoDB 5.2, BuddyPress 10.0.0, and GNU Parallel 20220122

    Links for the day

  30. A Parade of Fake News About the UPC Does Not Change the General Consensus or the Simple Facts

    European Patents (EPs) from the EPO are granted in violation of the EPC; Courts are now targeted by António Campinos and the minions he associates with (mostly parasitic litigation firms and monopolists), for they want puppets for “judges” and for invalid patents to be magically rendered “valid” and “enforceable”

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts