Comments

• Slashdot User

  2008-10-06 09:22:53

  Roy, I was wondering what your view is on this twitter person? You've railed endlessly in the past about people who "nymshift" in order to hound you endlessly, and here you are best buddies with the most prolific nymshifter in the ling history of Slashdot.
  
  For example:
  
  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=986049&cid=25268789
  
  This is another thread from yesterday where he posted with all his accounts, constantly shilling and replying to himself in order to manipulate the Slashdot moderation system:
  
  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=985275&cid=25253715
  
  Everything twitter does is documented here, BTW:
  
  http://slashdot.org/~willyhill/journal/205317
  
  I'm curious as to whether or not you feel comfortable being associated with someone like that. Do you really believe his claims that Microsoft is busy gathering up mod points on Slashdot to target him exclusively while hundreds of other people who post negative comments about the company are moderated positively on the same stories?
  
  Do you honestly believe that Microsoft monitors his home internet connection to figure out his new sockpuppets, as opposed to people just figuring them out by simply noticing that there's a new account replying to his posts and using the same language and creative spelling as he does?
  
  I don't usually agree with everything you post (especially when you stray into conspiracy theories with no factual backing whatsoever), but you sometimes provide interesting insights on some issues. Aren't you worried that associating with someone like twitter will harm your reputation?

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-10-06 09:28:11

  I only became aware of this some weeks ago when someone showed me the evidence/proof. As you can see above, I'm against that, but I'm not about to personally attack people in the channel.

• Dan O'Brian

  2008-10-06 14:42:02

  But you'll personally attack others over the same thing even when you have no proof?

• twitter

  2008-10-06 16:43:38

  That someone who provided proof would be me and it's never been much of a secret. No one should confuse or equate my investigations and advocacy with the criminal activity of those who crap flood free software forums with libel, lies and other vile material. Roy knows who I am so do the people who run Slashdot. You can check out the IRC logs and Journal to see my reasons for doing these things. I announced my intention to escape M$ targeted mods back in 2004 but only recently bothered. Most of what I've done since then has been to test the power and extent of these assholes. Their ability to identify and destroy accounts is remarkable to say the least. The more they flex their power the more obvious they are. They do these things for profit, M$ and cruelty. My work, in contrast has been honest and fair.
  
  Right now, I'm close to the limit of what an independent individual can do and you can see that it's no match for what people who do it professionally have. I have not resorted to TORR yet which could escape me from obvious monitoring. Every account I've created has been identified within one or two posts and then censored by negative moderation. Every comment made is followed by several personal smears. Submitted stories are also eliminated quickly. I will not bother to do much more than this because it has proved my point.
  
  Don't let "positive moderation" of comments critical to M$ fool you. These can be raising issues in a confused way. They can also be troll accounts collecting mod points to be used against people they don't like. They call it "karma farming." Slashdot is heavily censored using techniques like this and there's not much anyone can do about it. The ultimate measure of Slashdot's ability to cover the news is the growing similarity of the front page to any other Wintel rag and the obvious difference in content between that front page and sites like BN, FSF, Groklaw etc.
  
  The ultimate damage is the attack on the community that ESR predicted from Halloween documents but it's a losing battle for M$. Normal people no longer bother with comments at Slashdot. They are mostly unreliable and participation is unpleasant. M$ does this to any community they don't like. It will force people to smaller, better regulated communities like BN. Free software allows anyone to set up such a site. M$ can win battles but it will lose the war against software freedom.
  
  The enabler of professional attack is the easy poor security of M$'s pathetic OS. Anyone looking to manipulate Slashdot for profit will be using a botnet for their dirty work. M$'s complete lack of security provides even the most technically incompetent ass a platform for this and other kinds of fraud.
  
  Knowledge is the cure. My activities have shown me and everyone else a little more about how the world works. I've never lied about anything in my advocacy and investigation. I'm not ashamed of my work and no one else should be either, least of all Roy with his excellent news site.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-10-06 17:05:02

  Don’t let “positive moderation” of comments critical to M$ fool you. These can be raising issues in a confused way. They can also be troll accounts collecting mod points to be used against people they don’t like. They call it “karma farming.”

  
  
  I've noticed that too in Slashdot. Other than the personal (and libelous) attacks against me over there, I often spot Microsoft propaganda disguised as humour. One memorable first comment was from a fake account (miguel_deicaza, IIRC) saying "The European Commission is foolish. MSOOXML.NET is the future." This was modded up sharply and the context in which it was presented made it very damaging.
  
  You can find a lot more material in this Web site (with semi-scientific proof) that discusses Slashdot's subversion. Anything else would be repeating old stories.

• Slashdot User

  2008-10-06 18:09:36

  @Roy,
  
  I'm not going to bother replying to twitter's rambling post. No reasonable person would ever fall for the argument that Microsoft is targeting him personally on Slashdot. You perhaps, due to your high visibility, but a random Slashdot user with a journal read by three people? Unlikely at best.
  
  It seems twitter has to fall back on being forced to blame his shortcomings on vague external factors that are completely impossible to prove or disprove. Framing his self-professed "battle" in the context of whatever harm Microsoft may or may not inflict on the Free Software community is quite frankly, ridiculous. At worst it's insulting to people who actually perform valuable work to advance GNU/Linux and other free software. And claiming that he "intended" to create 20 accounts back in 2004 to have make-pretend conversations is irrelevant. Announcing his intentions to shoot the neighbor's dog and doing it two years later does not make shooting the dog any less of a crime.
  
  A cursory glance at the article that contains the thread I linked to reveals a good two-dozen highly moderated posts that are critical of Microsoft (perhaps rightly so). A cursory glance at any Microsoft-related discussion on Slashdot confirms that pattern, though it's hard to believe anyone has to actually point it out. The only constant seems to be twitter's many accounts being modded down. Knowing a bit about how Slashdot works from having gone over the Perl source code, I'm pretty sure that's not the work of three or four disgruntled individuals but rather the community simply rejecting him for trying to disrupt discussions that way. More to the point, I fail to find a single other Slashdot user who finds him/herself in that same situation, critical of Microsoft or not, although I admit I'm fairly new to the site and that could have happened before in the past.
  
  Again, perhaps twitter can shed light on how this: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=986049&cid=25269343 is somehow justified or how it helps to promote free software. Or any of the conversations linked to in the "Shill Threads" section of this journal: http://slashdot.org/~willyhill/journal/205317
  
  Or maybe he can justify calling people "dumb fucks" when all they do is point out that he's gaming the moderation system: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=985275&cid=25254195
  
  Even assuming for a second that he creates accounts to be able to post because the others are moderated down enough that they become basically invisible to most readers does not justify repeatedly shilling his own comments and pretending there are lots of people who agree with him.
  
  My intention in posting this was really to question the wisdom of being associated with someone like twitter, not to get into a tiffy with him. I have no more desire to disrupt your website than I want to read what he posts on Slashdot.
  
  By the way, it's fitting you mention the "Miguel De Icaza" troll account on Slashdot. Pretty much everyone knows that's an impostor, since the real Miguel de Icaza posts under a different account. No one seems to take him seriously other than to mod him as "funny" when he posts some silly comment about OOXML. The rest of the time he just posts at -1 (the lowest level), where he is permanently relegated for trolling. Guess who else is in that same situation, except with 14 accounts? I think I rest my case.
  
  Anyway, I've said enough on this... internet drama and all that. Keep up the excellent work... just cut down a bit on the conspiracy theories :-)

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-10-06 18:21:46

  I usually have more references than I have time to include (trust me, I have many thousands stored in a sort of database). If you believe that a statement lacks sufficient proof, please say something so that I can defend my claim. It's natural for a person -- any person -- to assume others posses some certain knowledge, but this assumption makes convincing allegations seem iffy or suspicious to others who haven't that same knowledge. It's a gut feeling that tells the writer what some reader knows and doesn't know and readers vary. Without the writer being informed of a gap, there's never a chance/opportunity to improve or fill that gap. It's also an important skills to have when presenting research, or else the audience is lost early on and never regains a train of thought. Another issue that I often have is readership that was not here since day 1 (we have over 4,000 posts), so things we don't bother to repeat over and over again are entirely missed, which is why I started to cross-reference very heavily (backwards and forward). Some people suggetsed that we create extensive static pages that summarise, but it's not simple.

• Slashdot User

  2008-10-06 18:31:55

  @Roy,
  
  I understand. Bear in mind this is just my humble opinion here, but look at it this way. You post three articles worth of information backed up by factual references. Then you post one that seems to insinuate X or Y and really doesn't offer any proof whatsoever. That does not automatically discredit the first three articles, but it does sort of cheapen them, or maybe diminishes their impact. People can (and I'm sure have at some point) then say "oooh look, Roy posted this and that, he's making stuff up" and that sort of muddles the value of the other material.
  
  Looking through my RSS feed I see one that could be construed that way, where you mention the current financial meltdown and then segue into a discussion of Microsoft patents, implying that somehow that has caused or has anything to do with said meltdown.
  
  Again, that's just my humble opinion and my perception of your work. It may be that the majority of your readers see it differently.
  
  Cheers.

• twitter

  2008-10-07 03:43:56

  Thanks Slashdot User. You have failed to create significant problems and are now rambling. It was nice to have a place to answer your brand of bullshit where you won't be able to crap flood and moderate me out. Slashdot will survive you, this site is growing, M$ is dying and you are a dirt bag regardless.
  
  This conversation has helped me sharpen up my Troll Zoo journal. I wonder how many of those accounts are yours. The journal now contains quotes from Bruce Perens, ESR and will soon have some from PJ about M$'s general attack on free software advocates. The more you dumb fucks spar with me, the better these things get.
  
  It's interesting how much time and energy your employers devote to harassing me personally and I'll be happy when you are out of work. As you mention, I'm a small fry. Yet you and people like you chase me wherever I go. Ostracism is a tool Bill Gates has always used (1978):

  [Those who do not pay tribute to me and my stolen works] They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at.

  Divide and conquer, eh? It must cost M$ a pretty penny to follow every little small fry around and it's not working. As M$ goes into debt, I expect to see a lot less of scum like you.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-10-07 07:16:44

  I'm still struggling to find who is who because of all these symbolic names and lack of disclosure.
  
  Perens:
  
  "Well, Blakeley, just about every PR firm offers to help "manage the perception of your company in online communities" these days. What do you think that means? Astroturfing Slashdot, Youtube, etc. In my various manangement positions it's been offered to me. Indeed, some of the companies offer to create negative publicity for your competition that way - HP had a publicity firm for its Linux activities that told us it would do that when we wanted. I never asked them to do so and hope nobody else did either.
  
  "This stuff is just standard these days. You've got to expect it."
  
  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=985543&cid=25267133
  
  "I think mostly they'd like to dilute "Open Source" to mean any code with source code. This is important to them because it's the rights connected to Open Source that scare Microsoft (and others). If you can call it Open Source when there isn't even the right to compile the code, or to use the information you get from reading it, customers don't have a reason to ask for it any longer.
  
  "Their publicity agencies are here on Slashdot pumping that angle every day."
  
  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=985543&cid=25256649

• laptopreviews

  2008-10-29 05:58:28

  i think it,s a great post.