To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
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| schestowitz | Testing a new xserver again, PetoKraus ? | Mar 04 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| PetoKraus | no | Mar 04 00:01 |
| PetoKraus | found a memleak | Mar 04 00:01 |
| PetoKraus | :D | Mar 04 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Predictable | Mar 04 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft search aimless and eternally doomed. Changing identity for like the 5th time.. no underlying improvements.. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/03/03... They should really give up. They lose billions there. | Mar 04 00:03 |
| Balrog | Yes Debian did mess up with openssh | Mar 04 00:03 |
| Balrog | but not as badly as Nintendo with their signing methods | Mar 04 00:04 |
| Balrog | or MS with all the holes ... probably one of the most laughable one is about the rollover of address space | Mar 04 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Isn't it less severe for Nintendo? | Mar 04 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Debian=easy patching, regen key | Mar 04 00:04 |
| Balrog | why would it be less severe to Nintendo? | Mar 04 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Nintendo=needs reflashing? | Mar 04 00:05 |
| Balrog | their system isn't designed for easy patching | Mar 04 00:05 |
| schestowitz | badserii: Nintendo doesn't have sensitive data on Web servers | Mar 04 00:05 |
| Balrog | messed-up signing code was written to prom (not eeprom) | Mar 04 00:05 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu fixed is gracefully | Mar 04 00:05 |
| Balrog | true, but they have 'piracy' to worry about | Mar 04 00:05 |
| schestowitz | Patching and then a graphical prompt about new keys. No need to reauthorise afterwards, so no pain. | Mar 04 00:06 |
| Balrog | Yes. | Mar 04 00:06 |
| Balrog | but when you have a first-step in the chain of trust bug that can't be patched.... | Mar 04 00:06 |
| Balrog | also worse, nintendo doesn't design for updatability | Mar 04 00:06 |
| Balrog | games for their system are statically linked | Mar 04 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Apple is off-target... making expensive PCs still... http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/03/03/m... | Mar 04 00:07 |
| Balrog | and they have 'OS' code (basically HAL stuff) in 50 revisions taking 20% of available storage space. | Mar 04 00:08 |
| Balrog | Well, I wonder what is apple's target. | Mar 04 00:08 |
| Balrog | I don't think they want to sell cheap systems ... | Mar 04 00:11 |
| schestowitz | They sell h/w | Mar 04 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Or complete 'solutions' | Mar 04 00:11 |
| schestowitz | But their results have already disappointed | Mar 04 00:11 |
| Balrog | more like complete integrated stuff, with the software designed for the hardware | Mar 04 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Their target audience is rich Americans (and some Japanese/EU citizens) | Mar 04 00:11 |
| schestowitz | They aim for 'luxury' market that tolerates premiums | Mar 04 00:12 |
| schestowitz | That become a dying breed now | Mar 04 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Small, small niche | Mar 04 00:12 |
| Balrog | well they're not aiming for the high-end of that | Mar 04 00:12 |
| Balrog | that would be Alienware and similar companies | Mar 04 00:12 |
| Balrog | heh, security flaw in android | Mar 04 00:14 |
| Balrog | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/... | Mar 04 00:14 |
| Balrog | you might have seen this though | Mar 04 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, it's resolved AFAIK | Mar 04 00:23 |
| schestowitz | This doesn't work for me (PDF): http://www.tuxradar.com/content/lin... Can you try it? | Mar 04 00:24 |
| Balrog | good. | Mar 04 00:24 |
| schestowitz | I think I'm in this magazine this month | Mar 04 00:24 |
| schestowitz | They did a short interview with me, but I get just 10k of PDF... an error occurs | Mar 04 00:24 |
| Balrog | but did they patch the latest jailbreak methods? | Mar 04 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Oh, it's torrent | Mar 04 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Cr* | Mar 04 00:25 |
| MinceR | gn | Mar 04 00:25 |
| Balrog | wait | Mar 04 00:26 |
| Balrog | so if they take it down, it will still keep on downloading? | Mar 04 00:26 |
| schestowitz | Yes :-) | Mar 04 00:33 |
| schestowitz | But it goes via their site, apprently | Mar 04 00:33 |
| Balrog | ok. But if they halt the tracker? | Mar 04 00:33 |
| Balrog | I guess DHT will kick in | Mar 04 00:33 |
| schestowitz | It times out | Mar 04 00:34 |
| Balrog | won't DHT find seeders? | Mar 04 00:34 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure | Mar 04 00:40 |
| Balrog | ok | Mar 04 00:40 |
| _Hicham_ | I think that it depends on the torrent's type | Mar 04 00:41 |
| _Hicham_ | no? | Mar 04 00:41 |
| Balrog | yeah, but this one is public | Mar 04 00:41 |
| schestowitz | I gave up on it | Mar 04 00:46 |
| Balrog | ok | Mar 04 00:47 |
| Balrog | I'll get it | Mar 04 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Thanks. There ought to be a Mono article there and I'm in it. | Mar 04 00:48 |
| schestowitz | Pixel Density on Netbooks Compared to Other Screens http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2009/03/0... | Mar 04 00:48 |
| Balrog | it sould be done within 1/2 hour | Mar 04 00:53 |
| schestowitz | Cool. | Mar 04 00:55 |
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| Balrog | My upload here sucks though | Mar 04 01:17 |
| Balrog | only 8 KBps up | Mar 04 01:18 |
| Balrog | :( | Mar 04 01:18 |
| schestowitz | Back to modem daze :-) | Mar 04 01:19 |
| Balrog | I get a good 90 KBps down on a good day | Mar 04 01:20 |
| Balrog | but yeah, upload sucks :( | Mar 04 01:20 |
| Balrog | heh | Mar 04 01:30 |
| Balrog | new webkit broke google gears | Mar 04 01:30 |
| schestowitz | Market's down again today: :-( http://finance.yahoo.com/ | Mar 04 01:30 |
| Balrog | heh not surprising | Mar 04 01:30 |
| schestowitz | Whoever I speak to got burned there. | Mar 04 01:30 |
| Balrog | heh. | Mar 04 01:30 |
| Balrog | (you mean the market, right?) | Mar 04 01:31 |
| schestowitz | Yes. | Mar 04 01:31 |
| schestowitz | it won't be fun when people lose evcerything | Mar 04 01:31 |
| schestowitz | When there's nothing left to lose, crime surges, affecting everyon | Mar 04 01:31 |
| Balrog | yeah :( | Mar 04 01:32 |
| Balrog | ok it downloaded | Mar 04 01:33 |
| Balrog | full quality | Mar 04 01:33 |
| Balrog | I don't see any article on mono | Mar 04 01:34 |
| Balrog | where would it be? | Mar 04 01:34 |
| schestowitz | I don't know. It could be a different issue after all. | Mar 04 01:36 |
| schestowitz | But for LXF to make this download available is unusual. | Mar 04 01:36 |
| Balrog | umm ok. | Mar 04 01:36 |
| Balrog | older or newer? | Mar 04 01:36 |
| schestowitz | How do they expect to compete with the Internet like this? | Mar 04 01:37 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: maybe older. | Mar 04 01:37 |
| Balrog | ok. | Mar 04 01:37 |
| Balrog | they are putting out only one issue for download | Mar 04 01:37 |
| schestowitz | Thanks for checking anyway | Mar 04 01:37 |
| Balrog | they want to get people hooked | Mar 04 01:37 |
| Balrog | lol | Mar 04 01:37 |
| schestowitz | I hope you enjoy the reading nonetheless | Mar 04 01:37 |
| schestowitz | I'm preparing links | Mar 04 01:37 |
| Balrog | yeah it's interesting | Mar 04 01:37 |
| Balrog | there's a huge article on KDE4 | Mar 04 01:37 |
| schestowitz | Linux Magazine and Journal still have those too | Mar 04 01:38 |
| Balrog | there *is* an article on opensuse 11.1 | Mar 04 01:38 |
| schestowitz | But I think LJ had its last isue. | Mar 04 01:38 |
| Balrog | they rate it 9/10 :/ | Mar 04 01:38 |
| tessier_ | The average uninfected “life expectancy” of an Internet-connected computer running the Microsoft Windows XP operating system without any security updates (“patches”) is as low as 4 minutes [15]. | Mar 04 01:39 |
| tessier_ | Hahahah...entered into an official court record. Nice. | Mar 04 01:39 |
| Balrog | source? | Mar 04 01:39 |
| tessier_ | http://recordingindustryvspeop... | Mar 04 01:39 |
| tessier_ | That's the filing...you can look at the filing for [15] and get the original source. | Mar 04 01:39 |
| schestowitz | tessier: the BBC said 1 minute, IIRC | Mar 04 01:39 |
| tessier_ | But that statistic has been around for quite a while. | Mar 04 01:39 |
| tessier_ | Although it is likely that the judge didn't know it. | Mar 04 01:39 |
| tessier_ | schestowitz: May be true but it is unknown whether their test was rigorous enough to be submitted as evidence in a trial. | Mar 04 01:40 |
| tessier_ | 4 minutes is still plenty impressive. | Mar 04 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Not really. | Mar 04 01:40 |
| schestowitz | I heard of "Seconds" too | Mar 04 01:41 |
| schestowitz | I've seen articles for years | Mar 04 01:41 |
| schestowitz | SOme of them I posted to COLA with snippets, so I could check for you. | Mar 04 01:41 |
| schestowitz | The natural path is to get infected when installing, then d/l AV and clean up | Mar 04 01:41 |
| schestowitz | I've seen it in my own eyes in 2004 | Mar 04 01:41 |
| Balrog | does that happen even behind a NAT? | Mar 04 01:41 |
| tessier_ | Much less likely behind a nat | Mar 04 01:42 |
| Balrog | I use NAT's | Mar 04 01:42 |
| tessier_ | NAT is a most unfortunately thing to happen to the net. :( | Mar 04 01:42 |
| Balrog | there's one windows computer left, running win2000 (it's an older laptop) | Mar 04 01:43 |
| tessier_ | We should all be using packet filtering but not NAT. | Mar 04 01:43 |
| Balrog | well I have ipv6 which is not NAT | Mar 04 01:43 |
| Balrog | how can you not use NAT anyway, with the few IP addresses available.... | Mar 04 01:44 |
| Balrog | well I have to go | Mar 04 01:47 |
| Balrog | talk later | Mar 04 01:48 |
| schestowitz | l8r | Mar 04 01:50 |
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| Ziggyfish | good afternoon | Mar 04 02:06 |
| schestowitz | Hi there! | Mar 04 02:07 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: new project named 'after you': Open Source Web Based Geospatial Processing with OMAR < http://www.osbr.ca/ojs/index.php/osbr/a... > | Mar 04 02:08 |
| Ziggyfish | not IT related but this is very bad. http://www.news.com.au/business/money/story... | Mar 04 02:13 |
| Ziggyfish | very very bad | Mar 04 02:13 |
| schestowitz | Oh, I hate that | Mar 04 02:14 |
| Ziggyfish | yes, I do to | Mar 04 02:14 |
| Ziggyfish | thank god I'm with CBA, which doesn't charge ATM access fees for using other banks' ATM | Mar 04 02:15 |
| Ziggyfish | but will cost me $2 from the ATM it's self though | Mar 04 02:17 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=... | Mar 04 02:54 |
| Ziggyfish | schestowitz, unfortunitly I have no sound on this PC | Mar 04 03:06 |
| schestowitz | national debt increased by like 5-6tr in Bush years | Mar 04 03:06 |
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| balzac | It really was an occupation by Bush, not a presidency | Mar 04 03:20 |
| balzac | The case can be made to describe the Bush years as a coup, based on the over-turning of the election by the Supreme Court | Mar 04 03:21 |
| balzac | I'll never forget what terrible years they were | Mar 04 03:21 |
| balzac | That's one reason I'm happy that Rush Limbaugh is being so loud and belligerent | Mar 04 03:22 |
| balzac | It creates the atmosphere of partisanship which is required for Obama to really take the Bush criminals down | Mar 04 03:22 |
| balzac | Hey Limbaugh: Keep flapping your jowls, you swine! | Mar 04 03:23 |
| *schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwl... | Mar 04 03:24 | |
| balzac | Limbaugh can be described with two science fiction terms | Mar 04 03:25 |
| balzac | porcuswine (Stainless Steel Rat series) | Mar 04 03:25 |
| balzac | slig (Dune series) | Mar 04 03:25 |
| balzac | slig = slug+pig | Mar 04 03:25 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Mar 04 03:28 |
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| schestowitz | Interesting views there... http://www.youtube.com/watc... | Mar 04 04:11 |
| schestowitz | Faux inspired Mexicophobia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?... | Mar 04 04:16 |
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| tessier | Bwahahaha | Mar 04 05:41 |
| tessier | Enderle is smoking crack! | Mar 04 05:41 |
| tessier | http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/enderle/is-... | Mar 04 05:43 |
| tessier | In case you missed it... | Mar 04 05:43 |
| tessier | That article has no comments on it. Presumably because you have to join the site to comment. But the "register" page has no form or other way to register. | Mar 04 05:46 |
| tessier | Did they do that on purpose? | Mar 04 05:46 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Wow!! That's COOL! :D | Mar 04 06:00 |
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| amarsh04 | ouch, 16 hours to compile a kernel here (Debian defaults plus a couple of minor tweaks) | Mar 04 06:37 |
| amarsh04 | will have to ask an old school friend who works in the same building as me about the stainless steel rat... 30 years ago and I remember him mentioning that book to me | Mar 04 06:39 |
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| tessier | amarsh04: Wow. I haven't heard of a kernel compile that long in many years. What sort of pathetic hardware are you using? | Mar 04 07:40 |
| tessier | I used to take either 4 or 8 hours to compile a very early Linux kernel. | Mar 04 07:40 |
| tessier | Now I do it in a minute or less. Funny how that is one of the few things to so hugely outrun bloat. | Mar 04 07:40 |
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| MinceR | http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/... | Mar 04 07:53 |
| amarsh04 | kernels are bigger now tessier... using a PII-266, 384 MiB RAM and a slow Samsung HDD | Mar 04 08:01 |
| tessier | I know they are bigger but cpu's are far faster as well | Mar 04 08:13 |
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| MinceR | r4wr | Mar 04 09:19 |
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| mib_5m43c6 | test:D | Mar 04 10:13 |
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| schestowitz | Morning. | Mar 04 10:14 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, Microsoft shills are all denying it's a Linux case | Mar 04 10:15 |
| schestowitz | Idea: let Microsoft attack Linux while still smooching FOSS community and pulling them to Windows | Mar 04 10:15 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: good cartoon. | Mar 04 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: someone mailed me about LXF: "Here's some shite from Novell dressed up as a publication: http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-forma... (Novell advertisements) | Mar 04 10:19 |
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| oiaohm | Just when I need a artical I cannot remember the name to search. The one about open source allowing more restrictive internet controls. | Mar 04 10:36 |
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| mib_zlj15j | wordpress is broken again | Mar 04 10:53 |
| oiaohm | It appears to be working for me mib_zlj15j | Mar 04 10:54 |
| oiaohm | but I had to change my dns to opendns. | Mar 04 10:54 |
| schestowitz | mib_zlj15j: yes, seen it | Mar 04 10:55 |
| schestowitz | It's rocky | Mar 04 10:55 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: it fell over twice since I'd woken up | Mar 04 10:56 |
| oiaohm | Boy. | Mar 04 10:56 |
| oiaohm | You have been keeping you mysql backups I hope schestowitz | Mar 04 10:56 |
| amarsh04 | np: Tchaikovsky Symphony No 5 in E minor, Op 64 live on http://202.6.74.107:8060/classicfm.mp3 | Mar 04 10:57 |
| schestowitz | Yes, why? | Mar 04 10:57 |
| schestowitz | I haven't tested the backups though | Mar 04 10:57 |
| schestowitz | I need mysql installed | Mar 04 10:57 |
| oiaohm | Unstable server + mysql does not always turn out nice schestowitz | Mar 04 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Good old Admin prepare for worst than it normally does not happen. | Mar 04 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Note before I change dns's the dns server I was using was not even given me a Ip for boycott novell. | Mar 04 11:02 |
| oiaohm | Yet alone worry about if the server was up. | Mar 04 11:02 |
| schestowitz | Can you find Microsoft connections here? http://www.muckety.com/Acacia-V... Reader says: "Before you post do you have any firm linkages, apart from what I showed you. Like a lot of companies are on that Acacia list, it would be interesting to find A 'investing' in B who invests in C who invests in a company running a court case on an enemy of A" | Mar 04 11:06 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: OK, I'll make another backup | Mar 04 11:06 |
| schestowitz | "National Venture Capital Association -> Acacia Venture Partners -> Microsoft -> Nathan ? There don't seem to be a way of joining queries, (who finances SCO) + Microsoft + Acacia" | Mar 04 11:07 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I get "WordPress database error: [Can't create/write to file '/tmp/#sql_12dd_0.MYI' (Errcode: 13)] DESC wp_comments" | Mar 04 11:09 |
| schestowitz | "WordPress database error: [Duplicate column name 'comment_subscribe'] ALTER TABLE wp_comments ADD COLUMN comment_subscribe enum('Y','N') NOT NULL default 'N'" | Mar 04 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Trying to get a backup now, I can only fetch a rather small file. Hmmm.. | Mar 04 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Hmmm... I can't get backups for any DB | Mar 04 11:11 |
| schestowitz | Works fine for home directory though | Mar 04 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Server seams overloaded badly by those desciptions schestowitz | Mar 04 11:22 |
| schestowitz | What should I do? | Mar 04 11:23 |
| schestowitz | "WordPress database error: [Can't create/write to file '/tmp/#sql_12dd_0.MYI' (Errcode: 13)] DESC wp_comments" | Mar 04 11:25 |
| oiaohm | I don't know that is causing the load or the lag schestowitz | Mar 04 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Conderation of supsending coments have to be on the table. | Mar 04 11:27 |
| schestowitz | OK | Mar 04 11:27 |
| schestowitz | The traffic is normal | Mar 04 11:28 |
| schestowitz | No spikes. | Mar 04 11:28 |
| schestowitz | Wait, I think the warning is gone. | Mar 04 11:29 |
| schestowitz | I made manual backup of recent posts | Mar 04 11:29 |
| schestowitz | Those since last nbackup | Mar 04 11:29 |
| schestowitz | All services are up; "Server Load 3.83 (4 cpus)" | Mar 04 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Mind you, there was a similar type of WordPress issue yesterday (briefly) | Mar 04 11:30 |
| schestowitz | I suppose: | Mar 04 11:30 |
| schestowitz | If the errors come in squence, then it all starts with inability to write to /tmp/ | Mar 04 11:31 |
| schestowitz | Which then cascades in a way | Mar 04 11:31 |
| schestowitz | I still get the error actually. | Mar 04 11:31 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes I don;t. | Mar 04 11:32 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: it's a general DB issue | Mar 04 11:40 |
| schestowitz | I see it's the same with the Wiki | Mar 04 11:40 |
| schestowitz | see http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/ | Mar 04 11:40 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's related to those downtimes we've had, I don't know.. | Mar 04 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Hmm | Mar 04 11:49 |
| oiaohm | Wonder if you are out of disk space in tmp. | Mar 04 11:49 |
| oiaohm | Can you clear /tmp/ | Mar 04 11:50 |
| schestowitz | I can't | Mar 04 11:50 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: that seems possible | Mar 04 11:50 |
| schestowitz | I mailed the host anyway | Mar 04 11:50 |
| schestowitz | Let me check disk space too | Mar 04 11:50 |
| schestowitz | "Hi, I am the author of boycottnovell.com (account boycottn) and we've been getting database errors for the past hour that say: WordPress database error: [Can't create/write to file '/tmp/#sql_12dd_0.MYI' (Errcode: 13)] DESC wp_comments .." | Mar 04 11:50 |
| schestowitz | "WordPress database error: [Duplicate column name 'comment_subscribe'] ALTER TABLE wp_comments ADD COLUMN comment_subscribe enum('Y','N') NOT NULL default 'N' There are other associated issues and I am unable to download mysql backups for /any/ of the database on this account (it returns some very small file)." | Mar 04 11:51 |
| schestowitz | I can check disk... | Mar 04 11:51 |
| schestowitz | "Disk /dev/hda5 (/) 51 %" | Mar 04 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Nothing critical there. | Mar 04 11:51 |
| oiaohm | Ok distruptive would be to restart everything ie mysql and httpd. | Mar 04 12:01 |
| oiaohm | And pray that is some form running stuff up. | Mar 04 12:01 |
| schestowitz | I can't restart | Mar 04 12:01 |
| schestowitz | I'm waiting for the host to take a look :-) | Mar 04 12:01 |
| schestowitz | It's affecting not just this DB, thankfully | Mar 04 12:02 |
| schestowitz | This means that it's probably not data corruption, just an issue with mysql serving, stemming from some /tmp-related issue | Mar 04 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Annoy if it turns out to be a mysql update failure. | Mar 04 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Upgrade? | Mar 04 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Or security? | Mar 04 12:03 |
| oiaohm | Both it can be. | Mar 04 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Well, I'm thankful that at least pages are serves | Mar 04 12:03 |
| oiaohm | quota's on stuff can have the same kinds of effects. | Mar 04 12:03 |
| schestowitz | The errors are minor and the Wiki still mostly private | Mar 04 12:03 |
| schestowitz | "Server Load 14.96 (4 cpus)" | Mar 04 12:04 |
| schestowitz | "Server Load 16.67 (4 cpus)" | Mar 04 12:04 |
| oiaohm | That is not that bad. | Mar 04 12:05 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft pulls plug on Xbox support < http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_2... > | Mar 04 12:05 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: all services are said to be up | Mar 04 12:05 |
| schestowitz | "This MySQL server has been running for 0 days, 0 hours, 2 minutes and 24 seconds. It started up on Mar 04, 2009 at 07:13 AM. " | Mar 04 12:05 |
| schestowitz | hehe. | Mar 04 12:06 |
| schestowitz | They restarted it 2 mins ago | Mar 04 12:06 |
| schestowitz | Errors still in the pages | Mar 04 12:06 |
| schestowitz | ø per second: 282.96 | Mar 04 12:06 |
| schestowitz | That's like 2.5 times more than I've ever seen | Mar 04 12:07 |
| schestowitz | 17000 queries per minute | Mar 04 12:07 |
| schestowitz | At least they are looking into it | Mar 04 12:08 |
| schestowitz | ø per second: 329.67 | Mar 04 12:13 |
| schestowitz | OK... no errors in WP now... | Mar 04 12:14 |
| schestowitz | OK, i can make backup too now | Mar 04 12:16 |
| schestowitz | wki db still acting up | Mar 04 12:16 |
| oiaohm | Linux.com relauching. | Mar 04 12:18 |
| oiaohm | This is going to be interesting. | Mar 04 12:18 |
| *schestowitz nods | Mar 04 12:18 | |
| oiaohm | Thinking Linux Foundation is sitting on the Linux trademark. There really was no way linux.com could say no. | Mar 04 12:20 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 04 12:20 |
| schestowitz | But they had disclaimer in the site | Mar 04 12:20 |
| schestowitz | Judge Orders Defendant to Decrypt Laptop < http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives... > | Mar 04 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Mar 04 12:21 |
| schestowitz | Fusion-io secretly parts with CEO < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... > | Mar 04 12:24 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.ph... "If Kelvin had put the magic words "Microsoft Windows" into his article, then it would all make sense.....without that, it doesn't, and it makes both Kelvin and Reuters look like ridiculous novices....." | Mar 04 12:27 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3... "Silly article. Talks only about the dangers of not running virus scanners. If the author had any clue he'd | Mar 04 12:27 |
| schestowitz | refer people to Linux versions. " | Mar 04 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Thinking that rootkit hunting tools are more important on Linux than a Virus scanner. | Mar 04 12:29 |
| oiaohm | Since you have a lot higher risk of being rootkited than virus infected. | Mar 04 12:29 |
| oiaohm | yet under windows people treat rootkitting as something not to worry about. | Mar 04 12:29 |
| schestowitz | Check this out: http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/03... "Linus Torvalds regains control of Linux.com" | Mar 04 12:31 |
| schestowitz | Could the LF have pressured them to cede control?? | Mar 04 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Legally yes. | Mar 04 12:32 |
| oiaohm | Most likely no. | Mar 04 12:32 |
| schestowitz | WordPress did a similar thing | Mar 04 12:32 |
| schestowitz | Someone 'jacked' wordpress.com | Mar 04 12:32 |
| oiaohm | Linux.com has been on resus for the last few months. | Mar 04 12:33 |
| schestowitz | and wordpress.org (mullenweg) wanted to regains it | Mar 04 12:33 |
| schestowitz | Then there's photomatt.net | Mar 04 12:33 |
| oiaohm | No new articals being written. | Mar 04 12:33 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know. | Mar 04 12:33 |
| schestowitz | I wonder what will happen, articles-wise | Mar 04 12:33 |
| schestowitz | Linus commented in Linux.com at least once (that I saw... in 2006) | Mar 04 12:33 |
| oiaohm | Advertisement dryed up. | Mar 04 12:33 |
| schestowitz | Advertisements are worthless in markets where expenditure is low | Mar 04 12:34 |
| schestowitz | I never made a dime from BN (not did I expect to) | Mar 04 12:34 |
| schestowitz | *nor | Mar 04 12:34 |
| oiaohm | Linux.com was using paided reporters schestowitz | Mar 04 12:35 |
| amarsh04 | I looked at all the most likely linux sites early on 2000-2002 and quickly settled on linuxtoday.com, and liked it even more after Brian Proffitt allowed regulars' comments to appear straightaway without pre-moderation | Mar 04 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Kinda gets critical when you don't have cash. | Mar 04 12:35 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, of course it was. | Mar 04 12:35 |
| amarsh04 | Carla Schroeder has been handling linuxtoday.com well... someone who lives out in the sticks who isn't caught up with schmoozing or trade shows | Mar 04 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Linux foundation will not run out of cash any time soon. | Mar 04 12:36 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Bruce Byfield almost vanished | Mar 04 12:36 |
| schestowitz | Some LWN or LJ or Datamation article on occasions, but not much output | Mar 04 12:36 |
| schestowitz | Tina Gasperson too used to write for linux.com (and other sites). She came to this IRC channel a while back. | Mar 04 12:36 |
| amarsh04 | I'd subscribe to lwn.net if I was doing paid linux-related work | Mar 04 12:37 |
| oiaohm | kerneltrap.org died around the same time a linux.com | Mar 04 12:37 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: LF is appendange to companies | Mar 04 12:37 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: no, beforehand | Mar 04 12:37 |
| schestowitz | kerneltrap.org forze about a year ago | Mar 04 12:37 |
| schestowitz | After it had 'come back' | Mar 04 12:38 |
| schestowitz | Jeremy was running it, IIRC | Mar 04 12:38 |
| amarsh04 | kerneltrap.org and kernel-cousins were good, but took a *lot* of reading and condensing on the part of their writers | Mar 04 12:38 |
| schestowitz | They'renovated', posted for a while, but then nothing. | Mar 04 12:38 |
| schestowitz | How (not) to brick the Android Developer Phone < http://lwn.net/Articles/318712/ > | Mar 04 12:39 |
| amarsh04 | the hard part is looking over high volume mailing lists and distilling the important bits... Debian Weekly News suffered the same problem | Mar 04 12:39 |
| oiaohm | http://lwn.net/Articles/321473/ Hope more distributions follow. | Mar 04 12:39 |
| oiaohm | non altered Linux kernels. | Mar 04 12:39 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: I like Carla. She's also very much in favour of GNU and all... not too much of a pragmatist liek SJVN | Mar 04 12:39 |
| schestowitz | It's good for editors not to be shy (or afraid of jupitermedia) to the point where Windows can't be criticised | Mar 04 12:40 |
| schestowitz | Cowardly writing is one where you play nice with everyone, even a company that sued Linux for fun and profit | Mar 04 12:40 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: Gentoo also, not just Debian. They called for contribs | Mar 04 12:40 |
| amarsh04 | If I was asked about significant individual posts I've read, I'd include Richard Stallman's "The C Shell Considered Harmful", one in linuxtoday.com about prelinking improving kde start-up times and the realisation (in no particular specific post) that radeon graphics cards actually do opengl acceleration with free drivers | Mar 04 12:41 |
| amarsh04 | I hope that the radeonHD effort gets a stable footing again | Mar 04 12:42 |
| amarsh04 | other "cool features that don't take a guru level of expertise to set up" include kexec and software raid in Debian, converting a windows box to a linux box that still has the same shares visible to other machines via samba and cups, and maybe a few other things | Mar 04 12:44 |
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| schestowitz | Wow. 871,074 mysql queries in just one hour | Mar 04 13:04 |
| schestowitz | Another one bites the dust: Rocky Mountain News Dead < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/... > | Mar 04 13:07 |
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| schestowitz | Chinese Job Sites Suffer as Global Crisis Slows Hiring < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160659/chines... > | Mar 04 13:19 |
| schestowitz | "After months of layoffs amid fears of a deep global recession, Hon Hai Precision Industry has started re-hiring employees at factories in China." http://www.pcworld.com/article/160657/worl... | Mar 04 13:22 |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 4 13:57:24 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Mar 04 13:57 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged] | Mar 04 13:57 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 | Mar 04 13:57 | |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Mar 04 13:57 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Mar 04 13:57 | |
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| schestowitz | The problem with the database boycottn_wrdp1 seems to have been resolved after the server was restarted, but I continue to have difficulties with boycottn_wiki, which I cannot even backup from cpanel. :-( | Mar 04 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Not your day schestowitz | Mar 04 14:12 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Mar 04 14:12 | |
| MinceR | no ssh access? | Mar 04 14:13 |
| schestowitz | No,none | Mar 04 14:15 |
| schestowitz | It's ping-pong now | Mar 04 14:15 |
| MinceR | see, that's why i prefer to admin my own stuff -- i get to have the access i need :> | Mar 04 14:16 |
| schestowitz | MS investors group: "Had a chance to read the post. Thank you for your time and efforts. It is appreciated." | Mar 04 14:19 |
| schestowitz | They lobby to toss ballmer out. "On the post there was references and links referring to Ballmer having to leave MSFT. Would you be oppossed to the campaign referencing the links for a new post on the campaign blog?" | Mar 04 14:20 |
| schestowitz | "It appears that numerous employees want Ballmer to go." The problem is, there is no adequate replacement. | Mar 04 14:20 |
| schestowitz | "However, I am not competley certain that pertains to anger with the corporate environment(layoffs). Regardless, there is no disputing that Ballmer has made poor decisions and has caused MSFT shareholders tremendous loss in market value." | Mar 04 14:20 |
| schestowitz | The problems began in the late 90s. Ballmer's goal was to squeeze as much profit out as he could. Remember the Gates departure? | Mar 04 14:21 |
| schestowitz | He's keep me posted concerning the Microsoft SubNet interview with a former MSFT employee. They use former Softies now to pressure the company. I told them to try getting in touch with Charles Pancerzewski. | Mar 04 14:21 |
| schestowitz | See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/10... | Mar 04 14:38 |
| schestowitz | "Charles Pancerzewski, who had been offered a "resign or be fired" choice in 1996 after he claimed accounting practice irregularities. Pancerzewski complained that Microsoft used its reserves to pad its earnings in lean quarters, with the result that Microsoftmisreported its earnings." | Mar 04 14:38 |
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| schestowitz | Foxconn Plans Billion Dollar High Tech City < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160664/fo... > | Mar 04 14:41 |
| schestowitz | So it's not all bad for China. The US owes them a lot of money. | Mar 04 14:41 |
| schestowitz | Apple shafts Australians < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new... > | Mar 04 14:47 |
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| jose | schestowitz, did you notice the eu backed off ms for documentation? | Mar 04 15:27 |
| schestowitz | It did? | Mar 04 15:27 |
| jose | http://finance.yahoo.com/news/EU-e... | Mar 04 15:27 |
| schestowitz | Were Novell or Samba playing a role? | Mar 04 15:28 |
| jose | they stopped babysitting | Mar 04 15:28 |
| jose | for past good behavior | Mar 04 15:28 |
| schestowitz | This is horrible. | Mar 04 15:28 |
| jose | they say.. | Mar 04 15:28 |
| schestowitz | They sue Linux | Mar 04 15:28 |
| jose | licensees can always sue if problems occur again | Mar 04 15:28 |
| schestowitz | Maybe some schmoozing. | Mar 04 15:28 |
| schestowitz | What about the OOXML corruption? | Mar 04 15:28 |
| jose | i will imagine this will not affect ongoing antitrust action | Mar 04 15:29 |
| schestowitz | This is serious corruption if they lied about invetigating. | Mar 04 15:29 |
| schestowitz | jose: oh, I see.. | Mar 04 15:29 |
| jose | >> It said this was "in light of changes in Microsoft's behavior" and the possibility for rivals to take Microsoft before national courts if it didn't share information as agreed under a license program. | Mar 04 15:29 |
| schestowitz | "It said this was "in light of changes in Microsoft's behavior"..." | Mar 04 15:29 |
| schestowitz | Aye.. they sued a Dutch company | Mar 04 15:29 |
| schestowitz | Now, that's a "Chcnage in behaviour" | Mar 04 15:30 |
| schestowitz | jose: OK, so this is about documentation | Mar 04 15:30 |
| jose | ms is multifaceted | Mar 04 15:30 |
| schestowitz | I don't know if the headline is too broad | Mar 04 15:30 |
| jose | yes, docs only | Mar 04 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Let me look. | Mar 04 15:30 |
| schestowitz | OK | Mar 04 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Phew | Mar 04 15:30 |
| jose | :-) | Mar 04 15:30 |
| jose | i'm hoping for the complaints to start rolling in | Mar 04 15:31 |
| jose | if the eu has to go back to babysitting.. | Mar 04 15:31 |
| jose | they might up their hourly charge | Mar 04 15:31 |
| schestowitz | I think the global crisis might have a role here. | Mar 04 15:32 |
| schestowitz | Whereas they should crack down harder, their priorities change | Mar 04 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Regulatory structures degrade | Mar 04 15:33 |
| schestowitz | So it's easy to say, "well, we're done here" | Mar 04 15:33 |
| schestowitz | The EU Com' has just received another complaint from Portugal | Mar 04 15:34 |
| schestowitz | It;a about Silver Lie and corruption in procurement, which they said they were investigation last year (Vinje and colleagues) | Mar 04 15:34 |
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| seller_liar | hey roy | Mar 04 15:44 |
| Balrog | hey everyone | Mar 04 15:48 |
| seller_liar | hello balrog | Mar 04 15:48 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Mar 04 15:53 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: I have some new findings you can help with. | Mar 04 15:53 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Yes , new pxxxx ? | Mar 04 15:55 |
| schestowitz | Not yet, something else. Give me a few minutes | Mar 04 15:55 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: ok | Mar 04 15:55 |
| balzac | lart | Mar 04 16:00 |
| balzac | Why would anyone want to "procure" silverlight? This is technology Microsoft has to pay people to use. There is no other incentives other than bribes, favors, or coercion which could compel anyone to want to "procure" silverlight. | Mar 04 16:07 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: OK, posted: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/04/re... | Mar 04 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Go down to the links with interactive maps. If you are curious, find connections between Microsoft and those patent trolls it created | Mar 04 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Try to find geographic and financial connections. | Mar 04 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is likely to fund companies to 'pull a SCO' | Mar 04 16:08 |
| schestowitz | balzac: : agreed. | Mar 04 16:09 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's buddy Gavin Clarke at The Register is boosting it today. | Mar 04 16:09 |
| schestowitz | balzac: we're close to cracking the spiel of the 'Bellevue gang'. Maybe you can help too. See the links to maps in this latest post. | Mar 04 16:11 |
| balzac | I think I'll just follow along in my spare cpu cycles | Mar 04 16:12 |
| balzac | I have to get a lot of work done this week, both during and after hours | Mar 04 16:13 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Where ? in wiki? | Mar 04 16:13 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03... | Mar 04 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Although we can analyse these things in other means | Mar 04 16:14 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Ok, I almost forgot, but I have a idea | Mar 04 16:17 |
| seller_liar | seller_liar: We need to create a projectist's section | Mar 04 16:18 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: : We need to create a projectist's section | Mar 04 16:18 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: in wiki | Mar 04 16:19 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: I need to fix the wiki | Mar 04 16:20 |
| schestowitz | mysql error, no data loss | Mar 04 16:20 |
| schestowitz | We need something like http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.p... | Mar 04 16:20 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Not much | Mar 04 16:21 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: My idea is to create a space in wiki where we create plans for destroying microsoft imperial monopoly | Mar 04 16:22 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Where we create ebooks ,banners ads and discuss plans to promote more ethics in free software | Mar 04 16:22 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Like a project , but this project serves to destroy microsoft and promote more software ethics in community | Mar 04 16:23 |
| seller_liar | seller_liar: you are the analyst, the community uses analyst infos to create projects/ | Mar 04 16:25 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: : you are the analyst, the community uses analyst infos to create projects/ | Mar 04 16:26 |
| schestowitz | I seee... | Mar 04 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Well, let me see if I can put the Wiki back up | Mar 04 16:27 |
| seller_liar | schestowitz: Ok ,thanks | Mar 04 16:27 |
| schestowitz | I'd rather wait until the host takes a look, I think | Mar 04 16:28 |
| PetoKraus | `now now, the memleak is hideous | Mar 04 16:30 |
| PetoKraus | since midnight it's 1180MB | Mar 04 16:30 |
| PetoKraus | brbr | Mar 04 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | ITV to sell Friends Reunited, axe 600 jobs < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/04/... > | Mar 04 16:32 |
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| schestowitz | Groklaw RSS feeds don't work.. | Mar 04 16:36 |
| amarsh04 | no, either log-in to groklaw.net directly or monitor irc://irc.fdfnet.net#groklaw directly | Mar 04 16:45 |
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| amarsh04 | fdfnet.net seems to have dns problems )-: | Mar 04 16:48 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 04 16:48 |
| schestowitz | I've just tried | Mar 04 16:48 |
| schestowitz | I also mailed Peter and PJ | Mar 04 16:48 |
| PetoKraus | http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/temper... | Mar 04 16:51 |
| tessier_ | Wow | Mar 04 16:55 |
| tessier_ | That'a an amazing story. | Mar 04 16:56 |
| schestowitz | Yes, he mailed me about other attacks/threats. | Mar 04 16:59 |
| schestowitz | That's Texas... | Mar 04 16:59 |
| schestowitz | "It's _____ ________ hippy freaks like you that are costing us our jobs. You got any idea how many people are getting pink slips because of your b_________? Every time you put that ____ on someone's computer, some guy trying to feed his family has to go home and tell his wife that he lost his job. How about I snatch that silly little ponytail and give you a tour of the parking lot?" | Mar 04 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Asay goes against Free software again: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3... | Mar 04 17:05 |
| schestowitz | http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/01/mu... Going against philosophy and freedom because bucks come first. | Mar 04 17:07 |
| schestowitz | "In God we Trust," said the Mighty US Dollar. God is money, money is god, debt is $11,000,000,000,000 | Mar 04 17:08 |
| schestowitz | http://www.zdnet.co.uk/talkback/0,100... "Either Novell (and others) know what the potential infringements are or it is 'Protection Money' . If Novell know what the infringements might be and are constrained by the Non Disclosure Agreement, then this is another can of worms altogether. " | Mar 04 17:18 |
| MinceR | i was waiting for the explicit suggestion to "flip-flop" to crApple | Mar 04 17:18 |
| schestowitz | Rumours about Apple layoffs have come | Mar 04 17:19 |
| MinceR | apparently caring for our freedom is "fetishizing open-source politics" | Mar 04 17:19 |
| jose | I can relate I think to matt's view at least as expressed. the problem | Mar 04 17:22 |
| jose | is that the majority of developers and users gain by everything being open | Mar 04 17:22 |
| jose | the simple solution if people are that bothered in some particular case is to switch products or fork | Mar 04 17:23 |
| jose | forking happens whenever the main company goes too far .. enough to push others to get up and host and manage the fork | Mar 04 17:24 |
| jose | the gpl isn't the only license, but it's the most popular | Mar 04 17:24 |
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| jose | look at this comment portion: | Mar 04 17:26 |
| jose | >> But I also admit the world is not black and white. Our Enterprise features are also what customers pay for. One time a customer started a sales visit quite frankly: We are happy to pay for MySQL, but for us to do that, we want to see some shiny enterprisey features that we get for that money. | Mar 04 17:26 |
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| jose | i have always been attracted to delay-foss as what commercial companies might do to maintain their support yet improve their advantages. | Mar 04 17:28 |
| jose | you open the code after you have made some money or sales on it | Mar 04 17:29 |
| jose | in sum, i always want everything opened up, but I can live with some amount of closed.. even if i can't and won't generally support it directly. | Mar 04 17:30 |
| jose | also, in practice, what a customer gets they usually don't intend to sell.. that can stay their secret even if attached to gpl.. | Mar 04 17:31 |
| jose | but you can then redesign it to fit a larger audience and have it be open. | Mar 04 17:31 |
| amarsh04 | I've been burned by orphaned commercial closed source software jose... I'm not keen on "buy our closed source better version" | Mar 04 17:31 |
| jose | well | Mar 04 17:31 |
| jose | most of the cases i just mentioned as acceptable | Mar 04 17:31 |
| jose | are when the customer sees the source but owns it and doesn't release it | Mar 04 17:32 |
| amarsh04 | that tends to mean that volunteer contributions have to sign their rights away to contribute to what gets used in the closed source version | Mar 04 17:32 |
| jose | or when the company uses closed source that they promise to open up a little later | Mar 04 17:32 |
| jose | closed is useless to me as a dev and user | Mar 04 17:33 |
| jose | well useless except for unimportant things as a band-aid | Mar 04 17:33 |
| jose | but actually mostly useless | Mar 04 17:33 |
| jose | i don't like it.. but customizations that the customer sees but doesn't share.. effectively stay closed | Mar 04 17:33 |
| jose | ok i see | Mar 04 17:33 |
| jose | i'm not talking about closed from the customer pov, but more like inaccessible to the community | Mar 04 17:34 |
| Balrog | Red hat is getting hit by a patent troll | Mar 04 17:34 |
| Balrog | heard about it? | Mar 04 17:34 |
| jose | rht should go for the jugular to have all sw patents made void | Mar 04 17:35 |
| Balrog | in this case there's also loads of prior art | Mar 04 17:35 |
| amarsh04 | I'm very strongly into fixing stuff so that everyone benefits... | Mar 04 17:35 |
| jose | i'd like to see that, but they would know better than me if now is a time to attempt that | Mar 04 17:35 |
| jose | i have not been able to work for a closed software producer basically for that reason | Mar 04 17:36 |
| jose | but I can coexist in a mixed world (not Monopolysoft).. | Mar 04 17:36 |
| jose | i'm fairly confident the open stuff will win out over time because it's the only one the community can help improve and change | Mar 04 17:36 |
| jose | i think everyone that can legally do so should have the right to keep things closed.. we don't have to support them, especially if they go too far | Mar 04 17:37 |
| jose | i'm fine with monopolysoft keeping their stuff locked shut | Mar 04 17:38 |
| jose | hopefully the community will never look their way again and work on linux and company | Mar 04 17:38 |
| Balrog | except that they get (nearly) everyone to use their stuff, which is locked shut | Mar 04 17:39 |
| jose | of course, in monopolysoft's case there are antitrust issues.. issues that should be resolved as the affect linux no matter how much we want to ignore it | Mar 04 17:39 |
| jose | Balrog, right | Mar 04 17:39 |
| jose | that would be a special situation specific to monopolysoft | Mar 04 17:39 |
| jose | i think matt has supported (at least quasi) novell because he hasn't realized just how useless and antisocial closed source is to a developer | Mar 04 17:41 |
| jose | that doesn't have insider access | Mar 04 17:41 |
| jose | which is most of us | Mar 04 17:41 |
| jose | going closed is analogous to any infraction | Mar 04 17:42 |
| jose | do it a little and without hurting anyone and you will probably get away with it | Mar 04 17:42 |
| jose | maybe during emergencies | Mar 04 17:42 |
| Balrog | well, I'm sure there *are* some honest novell developers that feel what novell is doing is wrong | Mar 04 17:42 |
| jose | abuse it and you will pay | Mar 04 17:42 |
| jose | yeah, a lot of them are stuck between a rock and a hard place | Mar 04 17:43 |
| Balrog | Going closed is bad for (a) standards and (b) stuff incorporating copyleft software | Mar 04 17:43 |
| jose | it goes with the job that you must deal with what your superiors decide | Mar 04 17:43 |
| jose | or quit | Mar 04 17:43 |
| jose | or .. something | Mar 04 17:43 |
| jose | the (b) case might be illegal depending | Mar 04 17:44 |
| jose | the analogy i used was intended as an analogy | Mar 04 17:44 |
| jose | example speeding above the speed zone in a high way | Mar 04 17:44 |
| Balrog | If you write a closed-source app and release the file-format spec unencumbered with patents, or better, some BSD-style licensed code that translates the format, it should be ok | Mar 04 17:44 |
| jose | some infractions are less serious than others.. it depends on context | Mar 04 17:44 |
| jose | and people aren't perfect.. neither are cars.. emergencies arise.. we get lazy etc | Mar 04 17:45 |
| jose | one shot events | Mar 04 17:45 |
| jose | i know gpl authors generally take very seriously that people respect the license | Mar 04 17:47 |
| Balrog | I've seen software that breaks GPL | Mar 04 17:47 |
| Balrog | though I should try requesting the GPL code they're using... | Mar 04 17:47 |
| jose | in this case, you clearly have a group that feels harm directly , in many cases | Mar 04 17:47 |
| Balrog | if you write a set of scripts to insert and remove a kernel module, those scripts can be closed, right? | Mar 04 17:47 |
| Balrog | but if you modify and redistribute that module, you must release the modifications...? | Mar 04 17:48 |
| jose | i thought about this whole thing and the conclusion might not be pretty | Mar 04 17:48 |
| jose | if the user does the putting together of the system, it can mix gpl with other | Mar 04 17:48 |
| Balrog | no, they are redistributing this | Mar 04 17:48 |
| Balrog | (some developer) | Mar 04 17:49 |
| jose | so the vendor might be able to build the components and then hope or suggest the user put it together | Mar 04 17:49 |
| Balrog | well this isn't the case here | Mar 04 17:49 |
| jose | they might even use a tool by others | Mar 04 17:49 |
| jose | ok, the scripts can be close is my first thought | Mar 04 17:49 |
| jose | and i agree with the redistribution part requiring source (off hand that's what i would say) | Mar 04 17:50 |
| jose | if the end product really depends intricately on the gpl sw | Mar 04 17:52 |
| jose | the authors of the gpl sw can keep changing the internals | Mar 04 17:53 |
| jose | the user will also have issues if they want to update.. i think some widely used closed kernel drivers play this sort of game already | Mar 04 17:54 |
| Balrog | heh | Mar 04 17:54 |
| Balrog | well at least the binary nvidia drivers work right, unlike the 'open-source' ones | Mar 04 17:55 |
| jose | a super gpl (sgpl) would not even allow itself to communicate with anything but gpl or sgpl etc | Mar 04 17:55 |
| Balrog | (which aren't true open-source as they're obfuscated) | Mar 04 17:55 |
| Balrog | jose: I think closed-source software has its place | Mar 04 17:55 |
| jose | like i was saying.. your closed software is useless to me. most of the time | Mar 04 17:56 |
| jose | *your* ... *me* | Mar 04 17:56 |
| Balrog | yes, to you ... there are some people who need it | Mar 04 17:56 |
| jose | i know | Mar 04 17:56 |
| jose | the first to implement a full feature (ie, assuming gpl is not an issue).. picks open or closed | Mar 04 17:57 |
| jose | but if they pick closed, there is a community price to be paid | Mar 04 17:57 |
| jose | they might be able to afford it or not | Mar 04 17:57 |
| jose | as the tivoization compromised showed | Mar 04 17:58 |
| jose | even rms i would think accepts private affairs (heck the gpl allows this) | Mar 04 17:58 |
| jose | but you want to avoid mass producing lock-in | Mar 04 17:58 |
| jose | that's what would really get the community active against you | Mar 04 17:58 |
| jose | the more "platformish" the sw that is closed, the more of a threat it is | Mar 04 17:59 |
| jose | because that vendor would get leverage the more others build on it.. | Mar 04 18:00 |
| Balrog | but what about the profit motive? Many programmers make money by ... selling software | Mar 04 18:01 |
| Balrog | as the iphone app store shows, many are small independent developers | Mar 04 18:01 |
| Balrog | Yes, that platform prevents people without a developer certificate from running FOSS apps ... | Mar 04 18:02 |
| jose | that's their choice.. i'm saying that for the most part your closed software is useless to me (as a dev and possibly as a user) | Mar 04 18:02 |
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| Balrog | and I'm saying that making a platform which *requires* everyone who wants to program for it to use GPL or less-restrictive licensing will probably not be very successful | Mar 04 18:03 |
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| jose | Balrog, I don't think that would necessarily be the case | Mar 04 18:05 |
| jose | i can't know | Mar 04 18:05 |
| jose | to the extent those contributing the most code can live off other models | Mar 04 18:05 |
| jose | then having the most amount of foss as possible would have benefits | Mar 04 18:05 |
| jose | i'm not too worried about proprie | Mar 04 18:06 |
| jose | except when used to build strong monopolies that close off too many fair playing fields or are used significantly against foss | Mar 04 18:06 |
| jose | why would i support opera and write plug-ins for them? | Mar 04 18:07 |
| Balrog | that's proprietary standards, not proprietary code in general | Mar 04 18:07 |
| jose | no, i'd want to make sure something like firefox is always there and is the best platform possible | Mar 04 18:07 |
| jose | no.. if you have closed source.. the standard is a piece of pater and not much more | Mar 04 18:07 |
| jose | bugs and many other things will lead to interop issues | Mar 04 18:08 |
| Balrog | If I write a word processor (closed source) but release the file format specification to the world ... or better, use some already existing standard, like ODF.... | Mar 04 18:08 |
| jose | i also like to see source because bug fixing and redesign is hampered with every black box in sight | Mar 04 18:08 |
| Balrog | sure it is | Mar 04 18:09 |
| jose | no Balrog, i would not support your word processor | Mar 04 18:09 |
| Balrog | probably you wouldnt, but it wouldn't be a closed standard | Mar 04 18:09 |
| Balrog | like I see so much of | Mar 04 18:09 |
| jose | let me ask this since it's more accurate | Mar 04 18:10 |
| jose | if you own the market, i would not support your word-processor | Mar 04 18:10 |
| jose | but if you didn't, then i wouldn't have to because i could just code to the standard | Mar 04 18:10 |
| jose | i prefer foss because sometimes you can improve a feature (eg, performance) by integrating | Mar 04 18:10 |
| jose | you need foss to integrate | Mar 04 18:10 |
| jose | perhaps the lines drawn in the standard were not good lines | Mar 04 18:11 |
| Balrog | true. But if mine was a highly superior product, and priced reasonably .... people would probably buy it | Mar 04 18:11 |
| jose | people would buy a lot of things | Mar 04 18:11 |
| jose | but bugs will lead to interop issues | Mar 04 18:11 |
| jose | if you don't own the market | Mar 04 18:11 |
| jose | you pay for those interop issues | Mar 04 18:11 |
| jose | but once you have a large share | Mar 04 18:11 |
| jose | others pay | Mar 04 18:11 |
| jose | then you have extra incentives to create bugs | Mar 04 18:11 |
| jose | wink wink | Mar 04 18:11 |
| Balrog | that's when honesty is important | Mar 04 18:12 |
| Balrog | and greed causes these problems | Mar 04 18:12 |
| Balrog | people want more money | Mar 04 18:12 |
| jose | honesty is not something i look at usually.. show me the mo..source | Mar 04 18:13 |
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