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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 10th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:59 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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oiaohm Problem is longer the battle goes on the more distruption people will see. Apr 10 09:54
MinceR i haven’t noticed any of it. Apr 10 09:55
oiaohm Most distruptions lass less than 2 mins. Apr 10 09:55
oiaohm lass/last Apr 10 09:55
oiaohm So yes is very simple to miss it happening MinceR Apr 10 09:55
MinceR ic Apr 10 09:56
schestowitz oiaohm: or several hours Apr 10 09:57
oiaohm Note the word most. Apr 10 09:57
oiaohm Some people are in worse locations than others Apr 10 09:57
oiaohm Problem is average distruption time is growning the longer this battle goes on. Apr 10 09:58
oiaohm Also does not help that Conficker virus numbers are growing at the moment as well either. Apr 10 09:59
oiaohm Contanment is failing. Apr 10 09:59
MinceR well, the worse it gets the greater the chance that several people realize what sorts of problems putting themselves at risk by using windows leads to. Apr 10 10:00
MinceR stupid people don’t understand potential problems until those are realized and they suffer because of them. Apr 10 10:01
oiaohm If it gets bad enough only option will be to ban windows machine from entering the network. Apr 10 10:01
oiaohm What would really screw MS. Apr 10 10:01
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MinceR indeed Apr 10 10:03
DaemonBSOD I’m playing with Windows 7 Apr 10 10:04
DaemonBSOD it’s crashed 6 times so far Apr 10 10:04
MinceR :) Apr 10 10:04
MinceR in how much time? Apr 10 10:04
DaemonBSOD oh, about 5 hours Apr 10 10:04
DaemonBSOD I just got the leaked 7077 build Apr 10 10:04
DaemonBSOD I’m scanning it for viruses Apr 10 10:05
DaemonBSOD I’m on 7057 right now Apr 10 10:05
DaemonBSOD I’m not really amused by it Apr 10 10:05
DaemonBSOD they could have probably called it Vista SE and nobody would have argued Apr 10 10:05
MinceR or Vista SP3 Apr 10 10:06
DaemonBSOD I’m not really seeing any terribly important changes vs. Vista Apr 10 10:06
DaemonBSOD and a hell of a lot more bugs Apr 10 10:06
DaemonBSOD they made the task bar work more like the OS X dock Apr 10 10:07
DaemonBSOD that’s about it Apr 10 10:07
DaemonBSOD it still feels like counterfeit Leopard meets Windows XP Apr 10 10:07
DaemonBSOD on the plus side it did detect a few pieces of hardware that Vista didn’t Apr 10 10:08
DaemonBSOD I didn’t need to go hunt down any drivers at all Apr 10 10:08
MinceR i’ve heard they copied kde this time Apr 10 10:08
DaemonBSOD no, it works better than KDE Apr 10 10:09
DaemonBSOD but not as well as GNOME or the OS X GUI Apr 10 10:09
MinceR oh, i forgot you religiously hated kde Apr 10 10:09
DaemonBSOD mmhm Apr 10 10:09
DaemonBSOD I would say that Windows 7 is preferable to KDE Apr 10 10:09
DaemonBSOD if KDE was my only choice on Linux I probably would just pay for Windows and get it over with, lol Apr 10 10:10
DaemonBSOD actually the GUI on 7 is not bad, it’s just not the best I’ve seen Apr 10 10:10
oiaohm Tested the secuirty yet. Apr 10 10:11
oiaohm Its still swiss cheese. Apr 10 10:11
DaemonBSOD meh, Windows security problems sit between the keyboard and the chair Apr 10 10:11
DaemonBSOD usually it comes from running keygens and fake porn codecs Apr 10 10:11
MinceR the user who decided to install windows? Apr 10 10:11
MinceR (or to buy a machine with it preinstalled and not to wipe it) Apr 10 10:12
DaemonBSOD no, but you can’t just run software from wherever and expect not to get a malicious program Apr 10 10:12
DaemonBSOD the Windows virus problem has less to do with Windows and more to do with idiot users that run anything and everything they find on the internet Apr 10 10:12
MinceR i could expect not to have a gazillion unnecessary open ports by default Apr 10 10:12
MinceR or at least to have a relatively bugfree firewall covering them Apr 10 10:13
oiaohm Under windows is fairly simple to get from normal user to admin. Apr 10 10:13
MinceR i could also expect to be able to use the system as a non-admin user normally, and to have system files protected from writing then Apr 10 10:13
oiaohm Even without passwords. Apr 10 10:13
DaemonBSOD not really Apr 10 10:13
trmanco loo Apr 10 10:13
trmanco nice name Apr 10 10:13
MinceR (this would need UAC to not be so full of holes.) Apr 10 10:14
DaemonBSOD if you disable or password protect the Administrator account Apr 10 10:14
DaemonBSOD and make everyone else a user Apr 10 10:14
DaemonBSOD then you’re fine Apr 10 10:14
oiaohm Nop Apr 10 10:14
MinceR except most windows apps won’t run Apr 10 10:14
DaemonBSOD yeah they do Apr 10 10:14
DaemonBSOD UAC can run them as an administrator just like sudo Apr 10 10:14
oiaohm There is a way into a user that can set the administrators password even create new admin users. Apr 10 10:14
MinceR (but if you don’t expect compatibility with shit like photoshop, why run windows at all?) Apr 10 10:14
oiaohm Without UAC even seeing it. Apr 10 10:14
MinceR except UAC isn’t “just like sudo” Apr 10 10:14
oiaohm UAC does not protect services. Apr 10 10:15
DaemonBSOD you know, I haven’t really seen UAC that much Apr 10 10:15
oiaohm Yes UAC control users. Apr 10 10:15
DaemonBSOD maybe once or twice since I set this up Apr 10 10:15
oiaohm Then basically allow everything because not upsets users. Apr 10 10:15
DaemonBSOD they’ve done a decent job of reducing the number of asinine UAC prompts Apr 10 10:15
oiaohm They  basically turned it off. Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSOD not really Apr 10 10:16
MinceR that’s what everyone did with vista ;) Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSOD it still comes up to install programs Apr 10 10:16
oiaohm rundll3d Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSOD just not to mess around with your wifi connection Apr 10 10:16
oiaohm rundll32 Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSOD as an example Apr 10 10:16
oiaohm No warning. Apr 10 10:16
MinceR probably the windows fanboys who keep saying “DURRR HURRR VISTA UAC OMGSECURE” did too Apr 10 10:16
oiaohm straight to system user. Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSOD brb Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSOD installing 7077 Apr 10 10:17
oiaohm where you can change eveyrthing. Apr 10 10:17
oiaohm Installer programs could get smart really. Apr 10 10:17
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MinceR users could get smart Apr 10 10:17
MinceR and avoid windows Apr 10 10:17
trmanco hahah reboot Apr 10 10:17
oiaohm services are key to protect. Apr 10 10:17
oiaohm Basically anything running with powers of root or equal is key to protect. Apr 10 10:18
oiaohm Windows 7 still manages to completely miss that point. Apr 10 10:18
oiaohm http://www.jboss.org/teiid0/basics/…   << Ok we have database glue. Apr 10 10:31
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_Hicham_ Hi Roy! Apr 10 10:35
schestowitz Hey Apr 10 10:38
schestowitz Yes, Vista7 is less secure than Vista Apr 10 10:40
schestowitz Underneath the model remains the same, but with less UAC nags Apr 10 10:41
schestowitz Microsoft never touted Vista7 for security, despite the fact that Vista too was a security disaster Apr 10 10:41
schestowitz It’s all marketing (perceptions) Apr 10 10:41
_Hicham_ Microsoft will never release a secure platform Apr 10 10:51
schestowitz Microsoft Linux? (SUSE) Apr 10 10:51
MinceR that’s what i was going to say. Apr 10 10:51
trmanco it’s not microsoft’s Apr 10 10:52
trmanco they can’t “own” it Apr 10 10:52
trmanco at least parts of it (SUSE) Apr 10 10:53
_Hicham_ SuSe will be owned by schestowitz afterwards Apr 10 11:05
trmanco Susy? Apr 10 11:06
trmanco :-p Apr 10 11:06
_Hicham_ oiaohm : why r u silent? Apr 10 11:08
oiaohm Away for keyboard of course _Hicham_ Apr 10 11:13
_Hicham_ oiaohm : do u think that OpenGL should go OO ? Apr 10 11:16
_Hicham_ just like DirectX? Apr 10 11:16
_Hicham_ and leave the C interface? Apr 10 11:16
oiaohm Gallium3d wins Apr 10 11:16
oiaohm Stuff building backend dependant on Opengl or directx built a netural backend. Apr 10 11:17
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oiaohm Really in time you will be able to have as many 3d framework assistance engines as you like. Apr 10 11:18
oiaohm Object Orrented programming suits some developments and not others. Apr 10 11:18
oiaohm Gallium3d really if someone wants to they could port Direct X interfaces to Linux. Apr 10 11:20
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MinceR trmanco: not owning something never stopped m$ from selling it. Apr 10 11:57
trmanco MinceR, then they get sued Apr 10 11:57
trmanco Apr 10 11:57
MinceR they have an army of lawyers Apr 10 11:58
MinceR also, sometimes they bribed the one who discovered it (at least once) Apr 10 11:59
trmanco yes, but that can’t go on forever Apr 10 12:00
MinceR well, they’re dying already Apr 10 12:03
trmanco yeah, soon they will start bribing with $1 Apr 10 12:04
oiaohm Patent losses increase the min price of windows. Apr 10 12:04
_Hicham_ oiaohm : port DirectX interfaces to Linux? Apr 10 12:05
trmanco wine does that Apr 10 12:05
oiaohm Gallium3d is netural interface. Apr 10 12:05
oiaohm That can be just as simply used for opengl 2.0 opengl 3.0 as it can for Direct X Apr 10 12:06
oiaohm Wine depends on wrapping to opengl. Apr 10 12:06
oiaohm That has its limitations because some interall structs of cards are off limits. Apr 10 12:06
_Hicham_ so it will use Wine emulation layer? Apr 10 12:08
_Hicham_ which is not native… Apr 10 12:09
oiaohm Gallium3d is basically native interface to video card. Apr 10 12:36
oiaohm Gallium3d provided emulation to features missing from cards as well. Apr 10 12:36
oiaohm So wine and others like it wanting to emulatate Direct X can have just has much direct hardware access using Gallium3d as on windows. Apr 10 12:37
oiaohm Thinking that Gallium3d is designed to be the layer between Direct X and Video card on Windows as well. Apr 10 12:37
oiaohm The world of Linux is changing. Apr 10 12:39
_Hicham_ the packaging thing isn’t really a problem by the way Apr 10 12:47
_Hicham_ checkinstall solve it completely Apr 10 12:47
oiaohm Not on all distributions. Apr 10 12:50
oiaohm ISV’s want a single installer for all. Apr 10 12:50
_Hicham_ at least on Fedora and Debian Apr 10 12:51
oiaohm Gentoo and edges missed. Apr 10 12:51
_Hicham_ they are the major distros Apr 10 12:52
_Hicham_ Gentoo can do it Apr 10 12:53
oiaohm ISV are not interested in just Major. Apr 10 12:53
oiaohm They want the lot. Apr 10 12:53
oiaohm 1 package if its Linux it works basically. Apr 10 12:54
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amarsh04 back soon, rebooting for new X server and kernel Apr 10 13:34
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schestowitz Novell in trouble: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04… Apr 10 13:48
schestowitz Novell influences the LF for MS tax: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/10/h… Apr 10 13:49
schestowitz And looking deeper at xenocode: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/10/… Apr 10 13:50
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oiaohm The opensuse built framework is not .net.   Its one of the rare frameworks that works for building multiable distribution packages. Apr 10 13:54
PetoKraus what happened to the IBM-Sun thing? Apr 10 13:54
PetoKraus did it fail? or is it still under negotiations? Apr 10 13:54
oiaohm IBM-Sun thing is still up in the air. Apr 10 13:54
PetoKraus ok Apr 10 13:54
oiaohm Failed then IBM reoffered. Apr 10 13:54
PetoKraus Given how close Sun came to being acquired by IBM Apr 10 13:54
oiaohm So far Sun has not answered. Apr 10 13:54
oiaohm Ie IBM reoffered at lower price. Apr 10 13:55
PetoKraus the past tense seems confusing Apr 10 13:55
PetoKraus right Apr 10 13:55
PetoKraus so IBM offered, Sun declined, and IBM reoffered at lower price? Apr 10 13:55
PetoKraus or sun didn’t reply at all Apr 10 13:55
PetoKraus and IBM just changed the offer? Apr 10 13:55
oiaohm Sun offered them selfs to IBM at a price.  IBM deciliend  now IBM has put back a offer. Apr 10 13:55
PetoKraus aha Apr 10 13:56
PetoKraus i thought it was IBM approaching sun Apr 10 13:56
PetoKraus Apr 10 13:56
oiaohm No Apr 10 13:56
oiaohm Sun approiced Intel and Cisco systems first. Apr 10 13:56
oiaohm Sun is basically selling themselves off. Apr 10 13:56
PetoKraus yeah Apr 10 13:56
oiaohm Do you want to know something funny about opensuse build service.  There is no Visual studio or monodevelopment plugin for it.  Its main coding language is bash. Apr 10 14:04
MinceR i don’t see anything wrong with that Apr 10 14:05
MinceR except that it’s *suse, of course :> Apr 10 14:05
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oiaohm Plat membership in the Linux foundation costs a good block of cash. Apr 10 14:07
oiaohm Its going be good to see if Novell is still there after middle of year. Apr 10 14:08
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schestowitz oiaohm, PetoKraus yes, Sun still wants to be sold Apr 10 14:18
schestowitz I reckon NOVL might have to do something similar Apr 10 14:18
schestowitz Parallels won’t matter much if Sun’s example is anything to go by Apr 10 14:18
schestowitz Novell has aligned itself as a good takeover target for Microsoft Apr 10 14:18
oiaohm Let NOVL talk at the Linux foundation confrences is really good at getting themselves more hated Apr 10 14:19
MinceR will buying Novell be a trigger for antitrust reexamination of MICROS~1? Apr 10 14:19
schestowitz Yes Apr 10 14:19
schestowitz But Microsoft controls em Apr 10 14:19
schestowitz Remember what PearlyG said about the government Apr 10 14:19
schestowitz He joked about controlling it Apr 10 14:19
MinceR perhaps they’ll be out of money to bribe the government by then Apr 10 14:19
schestowitz Watch how they intercepted Google-Yahoo… Apr 10 14:19
schestowitz While having no problem for themselves with yahoo! Apr 10 14:20
MinceR then again, Corporate Puppet Obama has some men from m$ Apr 10 14:20
oiaohm Platinum Membership (500,000USD)  << That is what Linux foundation plat cost per year. Apr 10 14:20
schestowitz The US/antitrust regulators are still practically owned by the commerce Apr 10 14:20
schestowitz The question is, which company put which cronies in chanrge Apr 10 14:20
Eruaran hello Apr 10 14:20
schestowitz And then there’s lobbying Apr 10 14:20
schestowitz It’s legalised bribery Apr 10 14:20
schestowitz So you can turn people to your cronies Apr 10 14:20
schestowitz Ziff Davis sold out to Microsoft Corporation, again: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/10/… Apr 10 14:22
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schestowitz Is Microsoft AstroTurfing in Twitter (again)?  http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04… Apr 10 15:05
schestowitz Yuck. What are these people doing? A Twitter PR agency: Just what the world needs now < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0… > Apr 10 15:08
schestowitz http://techdirt.com/artic… (The Pirate Bay’s New Business Model Apparently Working Wonders) Apr 10 15:13
schestowitz The new laws in Sweden appear to only be helping these chaps. “113,000 customers have already signed up for The Pirate Bay’s new anonymous VPN service, which costs around $6/month. “ Apr 10 15:14
schestowitz So thanks to Swidish law they could have another revenue of almost a million dollars/per month Apr 10 15:14
oiaohm Yep there is 113,000 people who need there computer raided. Apr 10 15:14
schestowitz *Sweden *no slash in “per” Apr 10 15:14
oiaohm Why do you need the vpn if you are downloading legal stuff. Apr 10 15:15
schestowitz Slated: uses VPN Apr 10 15:15
schestowitz He deserves his privacy Apr 10 15:15
schestowitz If we don’t defend our libarties, we lose them Apr 10 15:15
schestowitz *liberties Apr 10 15:15
oiaohm I mean to the bittorrent network. Apr 10 15:15
schestowitz Don’t let them use child pr0n/terror/”piracy” as reason to eavesdrop on EVERYTHING EVERYONE does Apr 10 15:16
schestowitz That would be their wet dream — pretending that checking every bit that goes through the wire is for ‘security’ Apr 10 15:16
schestowitz And then have scum like Phorm sell it for profit Apr 10 15:16
oiaohm vpn and encyption disadvantage blocks caching so making network more overloaded. Apr 10 15:16
oiaohm So effecting everyone elses right to use the Internet. Apr 10 15:17
schestowitz That would be an excude Apr 10 15:17
schestowitz *excuse Apr 10 15:17
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schestowitz Had they not sold our data, then–maybe then–would the Internet be assumed to bean honourable place Apr 10 15:17
oiaohm Internet was never designed to be private. Apr 10 15:18
schestowitz An Internet that makes profit from telling sharks all sorts of things about me (Phorm) is organised crime Apr 10 15:18
schestowitz VPN can restore justice Apr 10 15:18
oiaohm Cost vs gain. Apr 10 15:18
schestowitz Phorm is the equivalent of a private company coming to visit your house every morning and going through your drawers, then telling anyone for a few pounds what it saw Apr 10 15:19
mib_a5l9wu As for the question of whta happened between Michael Robertson and Kevin Carmony, this post on Carmony’s blog explains why he quit:  http://kevincarmony.blogspot.com/2008/12/… Apr 10 15:19
schestowitz Hi, mib_a5l9wu Apr 10 15:19
schestowitz Let me look… Apr 10 15:19
schestowitz Is there coverage outside their blogs? Apr 10 15:20
schestowitz Because someone asked me about it (unbiased sources as need) Apr 10 15:20
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mib_a5l9wu Carmony references a court case, links to ruling Apr 10 15:20
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mib_a5l9wu All the coverage at the time said Carmony was leaving to work on presidential campaign, I forget for whom (Paul maybe) Apr 10 15:21
mib_a5l9wu But in his blog he explains the “real” reason, which I tend to believe, given that it ended up in court. Apr 10 15:22
mib_a5l9wu In a nutshell, Robertson filed embezzlement charges against some employees who received severance payments.  Employees were vindicated in court. Apr 10 15:23
schestowitz mib_a5l9wu: wasn’t there a dating busienss? Apr 10 15:24
oiaohm schestowitz: As a system admin I have a completely different idea of privacy. Apr 10 15:24
schestowitz Some online thing which he said was *gasp* compatible with iPhone (Well, it’s a damn Web page :-)) Apr 10 15:24
schestowitz oiaohm: please elaborate Apr 10 15:25
schestowitz A Reader’s Guide to Copyright < http://mbyerly.blogspot.com/2009/03… > Apr 10 15:25
schestowitz Software Audits In India Block Companies From Backing Up Their Data, Claiming It’s Infringement < http://www.techdirt.com/articles… > Apr 10 15:26
mib_a5l9wu After Carmony left Linspire he started LifesDNA.com, which does have a dating piece.  Dating DNA is part of Lifes DNA and yes, it is one of the most popular apps in Apple’s app store. Apr 10 15:29
oiaohm As a system admin you have to protect the rights of the all to get there work done.   Privacy is not that high up there.  Anything encrypted without need is a risk of losing data or costing network performance so effecting everyone. Apr 10 15:31
oiaohm Is there really a true need for people to get access to pirated programs.  From a business point of view no.  From a virus prevention point of view no. Apr 10 15:32
oiaohm By making the network encrypted you only give system admins 1 option.   To block it all. Apr 10 15:33
oiaohm So really what they are doing is reducing the general freedoms of all. Apr 10 15:34
schestowitz mib_a5l9wu: I see. I thought it was Web based Apr 10 15:37
oiaohm If there was no pirated people would be forced to turn to the genuine free stuff and possiable improve it.  So express themselves freely not be restricted by corprate designs. Apr 10 15:38
schestowitz I’m talking about excessive snooping Apr 10 15:38
schestowitz Like Phorm Apr 10 15:38
oiaohm So from a system admin point of view what pirate bay is doing is not protecting freedom. Apr 10 15:38
oiaohm Instead restricting it. Apr 10 15:38
schestowitz It serves no purpose other then to use people as tools of consumerism Apr 10 15:38
schestowitz I.e. make them take more loans and buy stuff they don’t need, among other things Apr 10 15:39
oiaohm Using pirated software does that. Apr 10 15:39
schestowitz It is unhealthy for any society to enter people’s thoughts Apr 10 15:39
schestowitz It’s perverse because it demoralises people. Apr 10 15:39
oiaohm When they work for a company boss will ask them what software does x job. Apr 10 15:39
schestowitz oiaohm: wrong point Apr 10 15:39
schestowitz You are assuming things here Apr 10 15:39
oiaohm Pirates will answer closed source. Apr 10 15:39
oiaohm Not really. Apr 10 15:39
schestowitz You assume that by snooping you’ll stop illega sharing Apr 10 15:40
schestowitz But this is baloney. Apr 10 15:40
schestowitz People can swap stuff on tapes, USB disks, etc. Apr 10 15:40
schestowitz You’re just relocating the problem Apr 10 15:40
oiaohm Now what is the main thing they need. Apr 10 15:40
schestowitz Like fools who thought that kicking out prostitutes from Craigslist would end it Apr 10 15:40
oiaohm Cracks. Apr 10 15:41
schestowitz They just relocare Apr 10 15:41
oiaohm Relocating it to media out side the network slows them down yes. Apr 10 15:41
oiaohm Also removes them from being a cost on the network. Apr 10 15:41
oiaohm So the mass gain. Apr 10 15:41
schestowitz U2′s manager wants the power to cut off your Internet connection < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/0… > Apr 10 15:42
mib_a5l9wu schestowitz: Yes, it’s web based (lifesdna.com) but they have apps for the Chumby, iPhone, etc. Apr 10 15:42
schestowitz oiaohm: people fear the unknown on the nwtwork Apr 10 15:42
schestowitz Like encrypted traffuc Apr 10 15:42
schestowitz But it’s silly Apr 10 15:42
schestowitz Why/ Apr 10 15:42
schestowitz Well, because they don’t hear what people say Apr 10 15:42
schestowitz They have no record of who people meet Apr 10 15:42
oiaohm Not all encrypted traffic. Apr 10 15:42
schestowitz So it’s the illusion that people live in one single channel Apr 10 15:42
oiaohm Encrypted traffic containing one of the biggest sources in computer virus trade around the world. Apr 10 15:43
oiaohm Lot of pirated applications are infected. Apr 10 15:43
mib_a5l9wu schestowitz:  you an email carmony from his home page kevincarmony.com  I’ve written to him before and he replied. Apr 10 15:44
oiaohm Download pirated applications incresses you infection rates massively Apr 10 15:44
schestowitz mib_a5l9wu: can you say how you related to it? Apr 10 15:44
schestowitz tessier used to work for Robertson Apr 10 15:44
oiaohm Mostly because people using pirated applications don’t update them so they will not stop working. Apr 10 15:44
mib_a5l9wu schestowitz:  Lifes DNA is web based (lifesdna.com) but they have apps for chumby, iphone, etc. Apr 10 15:45
oiaohm Its unknown that system admins know contain problems that users are blocking us from scanning. Apr 10 15:45
mib_a5l9wu schestowitz: I worked at mp3.com Apr 10 15:45
schestowitz mib_a5l9wu: did he leave the company? Apr 10 15:45
mib_a5l9wu schestowitz: Yes, Carmony left a couple of years ago.  That’s what he explained in the link I sent:  http://kevincarmony.blogspot.com/2…  It’s a pretty complete detail as to the events of his leaving. Apr 10 15:46
oiaohm Last 3 infections in the network I run come from pirates. Apr 10 15:47
schestowitz Lloyd-Webber hits out over downloads < http://www.ft.com/cms/s/ba9… > Fighting fans. Apr 10 15:47
schestowitz schestowitz: I mean, the newer company Apr 10 15:47
schestowitz Not Linspire Apr 10 15:47
schestowitz oiaohm: in boats? Apr 10 15:47
oiaohm Software thiefs.  We call them pirates for a reason. Apr 10 15:48
oiaohm The normally enter our networks carring weapons in the forms of viruses being too dumb to know it. Apr 10 15:48
mib_a5l9wu schestowitz:  I just looked at www.kevincarmony.com and it looks like he’s still doing DNA and some other projects.  I know he does lots with indie music.  He also worked at MP3.com.  That’s how he met Robertson. Apr 10 15:48
oiaohm Come on some of these software thiefs are dumb enough to steal anti-virus software.   So when that breaks they are left defenceless.  There is more than enough free anti-virus software out there. Apr 10 15:49
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mib_a5l9wu schestowitz:  Looks like he authors DNA’s blog http://blog.datingdna.com/ Apr 10 15:51
oiaohm Anyone taking part in the illegal software trade should be shutdown simply to protect the stupid. Apr 10 15:51
*kentma (n=user@host86-155-234-165.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 10 15:53
schestowitz oiaohm: I was not talking about executables Apr 10 15:54
schestowitz About copyrights applied to multimedia or text rather Apr 10 15:54
oiaohm And they end up on torrent sites as compressed virus infected .exe for the stupid. Apr 10 15:55
schestowitz Actually, it’s interesting that copyright law applies to binaries now. Apr 10 15:55
oiaohm Not like pirate bay includes filtering to prevent that. Apr 10 15:55
schestowitz Stay out of my 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 Apr 10 15:55
oiaohm copyright law always had. Apr 10 15:56
oiaohm Piratebay and the like don’t deserve to stay alive. Apr 10 15:57
oiaohm Reason why I would love to see those bank transfers used for raids so scaring the stupid away from them. Apr 10 15:57
*mib_a5l9wu has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Apr 10 15:59
*silentivm has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 10 15:59
oiaohm Do you not remember punch cards schestowitz Apr 10 15:59
schestowitz Cringely rightly reckons Sun will sell itself cheap/ly: http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/… Apr 10 15:59
schestowitz oiaohm: nope Apr 10 15:59
schestowitz I’m not old enough Apr 10 15:59
schestowitz My cousin in Florida tells me she used em Apr 10 15:59
schestowitz Some friends of mine have cards as memorabilia Apr 10 16:00
schestowitz When will the Linux Foundation learn to stop feeding shills for hire? http://ostatic.com/blog/the-opportunit… Apr 10 16:01
oiaohm Never schestowitz Apr 10 16:02
schestowitz I know Apr 10 16:04
schestowitz They act like Microsoft but against it Apr 10 16:04
schestowitz GNU/FSF follows a more ethical guidelines that isn’t like cutting-throat business. Apr 10 16:05
oiaohm Not exactly. Apr 10 16:05
schestowitz I’m not going to stand up (and voluntarily) for some company like IBM Apr 10 16:05
schestowitz aka LF aka OIN… whatever Apr 10 16:05
oiaohm They hope IDC screws up and releases two document counter to each other. Apr 10 16:05
oiaohm So legally screwing themselves. Apr 10 16:05
schestowitz To me, Linux promotes a goal broader than just ‘replacing Windows Apr 10 16:05
oiaohm Ie 1 document has to be fraud. Apr 10 16:05
schestowitz If all we were trying to achieve is replace one OS with another, then might as well swap MS with Apple Apr 10 16:06
schestowitz Two evil companies Apr 10 16:06
schestowitz What was truly achieved then? Apr 10 16:06
schestowitz Free agents for companies that make billions from DRM, WGA, DMCA takedowns, patent lawsuits… Apr 10 16:06
oiaohm Problem you have to be aware of business don’t care about freedom. Apr 10 16:07
schestowitz oiaohm: they do this all the time, IMHO Apr 10 16:07
schestowitz Not negating in the scientific sense Apr 10 16:07
schestowitz But contradicting depending on the client Apr 10 16:07
schestowitz oiaohm: some business /can/ Apr 10 16:07
oiaohm Most don’t. Apr 10 16:07
schestowitz But that’s what the movement can be about Apr 10 16:07
oiaohm They care about getting the job done. Apr 10 16:08
schestowitz yes, but let’s not miss the point Apr 10 16:08
schestowitz if the goal is ethics-related, then the goal is to change Apr 10 16:08
oiaohm Linux foundation is not targeting home users. Apr 10 16:08
schestowitz Like changing foreign affairs from being profit driven Apr 10 16:08
oiaohm They are targeting business. Apr 10 16:08
oiaohm Where the money is. Apr 10 16:08
schestowitz As in, a country going to war to generate wealth for some companies that make arms Apr 10 16:08
schestowitz oiaohm: I know. Apr 10 16:08
oiaohm Problem we have is a lot of business beleive IDC reports. Apr 10 16:09
schestowitz oiaohm: they can make money Apr 10 16:09
oiaohm You might know they are crap. Apr 10 16:09
schestowitz Making money does not encessarily mean comproising morality Apr 10 16:09
oiaohm But I am sorry lot of dumb CEO’s don’t. Apr 10 16:09
schestowitz That’s just the key point Apr 10 16:09
schestowitz And you can regulate to enfiorce this Apr 10 16:09
schestowitz Like the Germans fines MS for collusion the other day Apr 10 16:09
schestowitz oiaohm: so these CEOs should be left to rot Apr 10 16:10
schestowitz No bailout Apr 10 16:10
*kentma1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Apr 10 16:10
schestowitz No ‘stimulus’ Apr 10 16:10
schestowitz The problem is that people who harm society are rewarded Apr 10 16:10
oiaohm Do you know what happens inside companies as there operations turn open source. Apr 10 16:10
*bananana (n=i-nZ@pppoe-234d.vestitel.bg) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 10 16:10
schestowitz They control the core of some systems Apr 10 16:10
schestowitz Like those which reward franchises Apr 10 16:10
schestowitz oiaohm: user of developer? Apr 10 16:11
oiaohm Lot of different companies start supporting projects. Apr 10 16:11
schestowitz So user *and* dev? Apr 10 16:11
oiaohm So to add the features they need. Apr 10 16:11
schestowitz Yes, like in Apache Apr 10 16:11
schestowitz That’s fine Apr 10 16:11
oiaohm Yep in time. Apr 10 16:11
schestowitz It’s sharinfg value Apr 10 16:11
oiaohm But you have to get them in first. Apr 10 16:11
schestowitz Also reduction of waste Apr 10 16:11
schestowitz For sure, they need to be pulled into it Apr 10 16:11
oiaohm When they start sharing they start learning the open soruce moralls. Apr 10 16:11
schestowitz That’s why MS tried to hijack OSS Apr 10 16:11
schestowitz To make more companies servants of MS code Apr 10 16:12
schestowitz with MS licences Apr 10 16:12
schestowitz So that Microsoft reaps their labours Apr 10 16:12
schestowitz *labour Apr 10 16:12
oiaohm Ie Linux foundation is about getting them started. Apr 10 16:12
schestowitz It’s not just code BTW Apr 10 16:12
oiaohm So to you and me some of the things they do looks stupid. Apr 10 16:12
schestowitz Chemistry, medicine, biology, poetry, cuisine Apr 10 16:12
oiaohm When they work so be it. Apr 10 16:12
schestowitz But sharing is daemonised by some Apr 10 16:12
schestowitz Like Microsoft… Apr 10 16:12
schestowitz Like the MPAA.. Apr 10 16:13
oiaohm IDC report worked well last year. Apr 10 16:13
schestowitz Like UKIPO.. Apr 10 16:13
schestowitz Their education goes like, if you have something valuable, keep it to yourself Apr 10 16:13
schestowitz Contrariwise, some say you must share it ASAP Apr 10 16:13
schestowitz Then you get credit Apr 10 16:13
schestowitz Scientists for example Apr 10 16:13
schestowitz Some abstain from sharing their ideas, so they get just ignored Apr 10 16:13
oiaohm Open Source is based on science. Apr 10 16:14
schestowitz oiaohm: well, I won’t shut up about the ISC report Apr 10 16:14
schestowitz *IDC Apr 10 16:14
schestowitz Nor did I last year Apr 10 16:14
oiaohm I don’t expect you to. Apr 10 16:14
schestowitz They ptomote hypocrisy Apr 10 16:14
schestowitz Fighting nukes with nukes. Apr 10 16:14
schestowitz Then come the likes of NPD Apr 10 16:14
schestowitz Lying about Linux market share Apr 10 16:14
schestowitz And the LF can’t take higher moral ground Apr 10 16:14
schestowitz Because that would be hypocritical. Apr 10 16:15
oiaohm Linux Foundation does not ask for the numbers to be altered. Apr 10 16:15
oiaohm Ok made look good but truthful. Apr 10 16:15
oiaohm Yes truth lies and statistics. Apr 10 16:15
oiaohm There are many ways to present statistics that are miss leading. Apr 10 16:16
oiaohm Yet not have 1 single lie in there. Apr 10 16:16
oiaohm It is something IDC is exceptionally good at. Apr 10 16:16
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Omar87 Hi Apr 10 16:17
oiaohm Linux Foundation only has a reason to use IDC as long as businesses trust IDC. Apr 10 16:17
schestowitz Well, people should NOT trust them Apr 10 16:18
schestowitz There is PROOF against it Apr 10 16:18
schestowitz Showing bribes Apr 10 16:18
schestowitz Showing pressure to change reports Apr 10 16:18
schestowitz Showing Microsoft telling them what to do Apr 10 16:18
schestowitz So it’s basically Microsoft lies dressed up with someone else’s name Apr 10 16:19
oiaohm Really think of it this way.  IDC is like advertising in a newspaper for business usage. Apr 10 16:19
schestowitz And then they use IDC (their media offshoot) to pretend that IDC is the elite informationmaster Apr 10 16:19
schestowitz oiaohm: it is. An advert that’s MISLEADING Apr 10 16:19
schestowitz I wish to end this BS. Apr 10 16:20
oiaohm And IDC has done a great job set them selfs up as the elite information master. Apr 10 16:20
schestowitz Either by having them ignored (the better option) or shut down Apr 10 16:20
schestowitz If they get ignored, they’ll cease getting business Apr 10 16:20
oiaohm Not using them blocks path into market. Apr 10 16:20
schestowitz IOW small business can’t bribe IDC and can’t compete Apr 10 16:20
oiaohm Breaking the crediblity that no one trusts IDC not even MS would use them. Apr 10 16:20
schestowitz This makes IDC a door keeper that virtually accepts bribes Apr 10 16:21
schestowitz To allow or deny entrants Apr 10 16:21
schestowitz Nice, ain’t it? :-)) Apr 10 16:21
oiaohm IDC is a bad company that has got themselves into a key location. Apr 10 16:21
schestowitz And as I said, there is lots in BN that shows IDC|MS bribery Apr 10 16:21
schestowitz oiaohm: it’s unethical Apr 10 16:21
schestowitz What you say is absurb in a way Apr 10 16:22
oiaohm So is lots of business Apr 10 16:22
schestowitz It’s like saying the US is OK for being in Iraq where it has a key location for oil distribution Apr 10 16:22
schestowitz oiaohm: well, fine Apr 10 16:22
schestowitz That does not contradict what I argued Apr 10 16:23
schestowitz It’s a strawman Apr 10 16:23
oiaohm Problem here is doing business. Apr 10 16:23
oiaohm A person who takes complete ethical path on who they will and will not deal with in business normally ends up out of business. Apr 10 16:24
schestowitz Nope Apr 10 16:24
schestowitz The problem here is deception for pay and presentation as unbiased source Apr 10 16:24
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, but that’s a bad thing Apr 10 16:24
schestowitz This means that the corrupt survives Apr 10 16:25
schestowitz Nice analysts who deliver turth don’t Apr 10 16:25
schestowitz So you end up with only sharks alive Apr 10 16:25
schestowitz No small fish Apr 10 16:25
oiaohm I know its a bad thing. Apr 10 16:25
oiaohm Sharks like MS built the market this way. Apr 10 16:25
oiaohm Lack of media regulation lets it happen. Apr 10 16:26
schestowitz Police Powers and the UK Government in the 1980s < http://www.schneier.com/blog/archi… > Apr 10 16:26
schestowitz oiaohm: sharks and crime should be held accountable Apr 10 16:26
schestowitz oiaohm: so which team are you willing to put effort into? Apr 10 16:27
*bananana (n=i-nZ@pppoe-234d.vestitel.bg) has left #boycottnovell Apr 10 16:27
oiaohm groups like IDC need to be attacked. Apr 10 16:27
oiaohm Stack of companies are forced basically to use them so they advertise as the best. Apr 10 16:28
oiaohm Just to stay in business. Apr 10 16:28
trmanco Windows Live Hotmail Suffers Temporary Outage: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows… Apr 10 16:29
oiaohm Don’t advertise with IDC have your produce made out as the worst on earth. Apr 10 16:29
schestowitz http://www.sustainableindustries.com/g… “The idea of “open source” was once the domain of software geeks…” Errrrr. no. It /still/ is. Apr 10 16:29
schestowitz So many people try to call anything on Earth “open source” Apr 10 16:29
schestowitz The term loses meaning that way Apr 10 16:29
schestowitz oiaohm: remember it’s not just IDC Apr 10 16:29
schestowitz IDC owns IDG Apr 10 16:30
schestowitz I.e. JavaWorld, NetworkWorld, InfroWorld, etc. Apr 10 16:30
trmanco not just Gmail hun? Apr 10 16:30
schestowitz Like 50 sites maybe… Apr 10 16:30
schestowitz So they control the information about technology Apr 10 16:30
schestowitz If you make them happy, they’ll appoint your lackeys as ‘journalists’ Apr 10 16:30
schestowitz By them I mean IDC Apr 10 16:30
schestowitz That’s where most money is made, other than adverts Apr 10 16:31
schestowitz Whitepapers is where it’s at for them. The sellouts (=white papers) Apr 10 16:31
oiaohm As I said IDC has set themselfs up well. Apr 10 16:31
oiaohm Fighting them head on is a major problem. Apr 10 16:31
schestowitz trmanco: don’t expect IDG to cover the outage Apr 10 16:31
oiaohm If you want to say in business. Apr 10 16:31
schestowitz They onl;y cover Google problems of this kind :-) Apr 10 16:31
oiaohm Goverments have left IDC be. Apr 10 16:32
schestowitz oiaohm: phopronix advertises with IDG Apr 10 16:32
*oiaohm has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Apr 10 16:32
schestowitz A lot of stupid sites support them this way Apr 10 16:32
schestowitz trmanco:  “Various users have started reporting not being able to sign in to their accounts, and the fact that they received messages informing them that their inbox was gone.” Apr 10 16:33
schestowitz :-) :-) Apr 10 16:33
schestowitz Welcome to Gmail, people. Apr 10 16:33
schestowitz It’s like the Conficker of the cloud Apr 10 16:33
trmanco lol Apr 10 16:33
trmanco I never had those Gail outages… Apr 10 16:34
trmanco Gmail* Apr 10 16:34
schestowitz Pandora open-source console delayed, but still on track < http://www.t3.com/news/pandora-ope… > Apr 10 16:34
trmanco IMAP was working… so no offline service for me Apr 10 16:34
schestowitz AZune[sic] was down for 22 hours Apr 10 16:34
schestowitz Bad update of WIndows Apr 10 16:34
schestowitz Does Google use Windows? :-) Apr 10 16:34
schestowitz Microsoft blamed Windows uipdate Apr 10 16:34
schestowitz They could be lying Apr 10 16:35
trmanco they probably do, not for servers though Apr 10 16:35
schestowitz I’ll do  a post Apr 10 16:38
schestowitz Gotta find a nice free picture Apr 10 16:39
Eruaran Does anyone have an opinion on a python ide or shall I just use kate Apr 10 16:39
ushimitsudoki Eruaran: For an open source project? Wing IDE Apr 10 16:41
ushimitsudoki Eururan: If you prefer a pure open source IDE, Komodo Edit Apr 10 16:41
Eruaran k Apr 10 16:41
trmanco I use komodo edit for php Apr 10 16:42
trmanco Yahoo Mail suffers ‘brief’ outage: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-1021… Apr 10 16:47
trmanco wtf is going on? Apr 10 16:47
schestowitz Internet problems Apr 10 16:47
schestowitz Not new Apr 10 16:47
schestowitz Reported widely Apr 10 16:47
schestowitz Network fidelity seems down Apr 10 16:47
schestowitz BN is sometimes unreachable to all,, my DNS is wonky…. Apr 10 16:48
schestowitz And it’s shown elsewhere that there are DDOS attacks Apr 10 16:48
schestowitz It’s not a very Good Friday for Yahoo! and Microsoft, is it? Apr 10 16:49
schestowitz trmanco:  pingfm isn’t working for me today Apr 10 16:50
trmanco New Yahoo chief, Microsoft talking deals: http://www.electronista.com/articles… Apr 10 16:50
schestowitz The button has had no effect since the morning. Apr 10 16:50
trmanco Google can’t, but microsoft can… pathetic Apr 10 16:50
trmanco schestowitz, they were having some problems Apr 10 16:51
trmanco but they are fixed now, let me try Apr 10 16:51
schestowitz But trmanco, Google runs the country… NOT. That would be MSFT Apr 10 16:51
schestowitz And Bill the ‘philanthropist’ Apr 10 16:51
schestowitz his dad and friends have connections Apr 10 16:51
trmanco schestowitz, ping.fm works here Apr 10 16:55
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… thanks, trmanco Apr 10 16:55
trmanco np Apr 10 16:56
trmanco cracked macbooks are funny Apr 10 16:56
schestowitz Yes, but probably true and exaggerated Apr 10 17:00
schestowitz The site must be driving away Mac-using readers. i hope not… Apr 10 17:00
schestowitz Not to be too confrontational Apr 10 17:00
schestowitz AWStats says that 5.5 % of the visitors use Macs Apr 10 17:01
schestowitz Sounds about right Apr 10 17:01
schestowitz Linux–3 8.3 % this montn Apr 10 17:01
schestowitz Sounds about right ;-) Apr 10 17:01
schestowitz Windows @ 48.4 % Apr 10 17:02
schestowitz So not yet a monopoly by some definitions Apr 10 17:02
schestowitz When Windows crosses 50%, then it becomes a problem Apr 10 17:02
trmanco is it idc or idg that’s in bed with MS? Apr 10 17:05
trmanco China denies cyberattacks on U.S. power grid: http://www.itworld.com/government/6623… Apr 10 17:05
schestowitz Cliff Saran propagates the open source FUD by citing Forrester, which was paid (bribed) to slander Linux before. Apr 10 17:06
schestowitz trmanco: both Apr 10 17:06
schestowitz IDC owns IDG Apr 10 17:07
trmanco ah ok Apr 10 17:07
schestowitz IDC uses IDG to pretend thet IDG is God Apr 10 17:07
schestowitz *that IDG is God Apr 10 17:07
schestowitz And that Linux has 4% market share in netbooks Apr 10 17:07
schestowitz That too is being spread by IDG and generated by NPD, probably to help Microsoft Apr 10 17:08
Omar87 Hi Apr 10 17:08
trmanco hi Apr 10 17:09
schestowitz Omar87: what do you think about today’s posts? Apr 10 17:12
schestowitz I feel pleased with some of the material Microsoft gave us. Apr 10 17:12
*magentar (n=magentar@dslb-084-059-072-223.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #boycottnovell Apr 10 17:17
Omar87 schestowitz: I’m checking them out now. Apr 10 17:17
Omar87 schestowitz: What did they give you? Apr 10 17:17
*magentar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Apr 10 17:20
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