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| schestowitz | Here is another possible Microsoft crime (new one that confirms my suspicions): http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/07/... | Jul 23 05:19 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: what was it you had yesterday, Roy? | Jul 23 10:23 |
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| schestowitz | The editor of Linux Today chose to link to the site and one fast response was an attack on the editor with libellous accusations against me. It was the same libellous claims that are seen in COLA, so I suspect that the COLA trolls continue to try blacklisting the site. | Jul 23 10:26 |
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| kentma | Ahh, okay - do you have the URL still? | Jul 23 10:26 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it's http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_sto... . Read the other replies (Hit "Back to headline") and see that it's a misfit. The trolls tried all sorts of other things too. Gary Stewart (flatfish), for example, accused the site of being aTrojan amd Timmy called it SPAM over at Digg. | Jul 23 10:28 |
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| schestowitz | You then find that the tactics are a case of poisoning, just as COLA gets littered with foul stuff. As for Groklaw, false accusations were made about it (DDOS attacks) to have it blacklisted and then came the "Groklaw is an IBM site" smears. | Jul 23 10:29 |
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| *blackrabbit wiggles tail | Jul 23 10:35 |
| schestowitz | Hey, br. | Jul 23 10:38 |
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| kentma | You've really got the URL sifting and linking off to a fine art here, Roy. I think that the couple of years of news article collection is really paying off well - it's so much harder to hide now! | Jul 23 10:39 |
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| kentma | Btw, I've left a counter-remark on LT now. | Jul 23 10:39 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, thanks. I'll watch. | Jul 23 10:43 |
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| schestowitz | I'm about to post something about a Microsoft attack. | Jul 23 11:00 |
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| schestowitz | That company still operates like some mafia. | Jul 23 11:00 |
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| blackrabbit | hello schestowitz, how do you mean? | Jul 23 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | They attack bloggers. | Jul 23 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | Say something they dislike, be attacked. | Jul 23 11:01 |
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| blackrabbit | More people should make use of Tor over SSL for blogging | Jul 23 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | As GL put it the other day, "everyone resisting OOXML must be some extremist anti-Microsoft zealot" (not exact quote) | Jul 23 11:02 |
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| schestowitz | Assuming only that they need privacy. | Jul 23 11:02 |
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| schestowitz | Like freedom, privacy is a tradeoff working against convenience. If not done properly, it's pointless cause you need to get exposed just once. | Jul 23 11:03 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, this assumes people would place themselves in a position to be exposed | Jul 23 11:03 |
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| blackrabbit | everyone can, with the proper know how, blog anonymously | Jul 23 11:03 |
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| schestowitz | What if you own the domain? | Jul 23 11:05 |
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| blackrabbit | you shouldn't | Jul 23 11:05 |
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| blackrabbit | unless you're in a country where you may remain anonymous | Jul 23 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | And by the way, Google sold out its users to the police beofre. | Jul 23 11:05 |
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| kentma | My problem with that approach is that once you start hiding, then the risk of being "exposed" becomes significant. | Jul 23 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | Or you have spies coming to youir house to dig dirt. | Jul 23 11:06 |
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| blackrabbit | which is why there's tor, ssl, ssh | Jul 23 11:06 |
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| blackrabbit | follow the guidelines to proper anonymous blogging | Jul 23 11:07 |
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| blackrabbit | you're doing it wrong if you post your face and name to the blog | Jul 23 11:07 |
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| blackrabbit | "Look at me, I'm Joe! I want to be famous!" | Jul 23 11:07 |
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| blackrabbit | this is the wrong way to expose corruption | Jul 23 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | No. | Jul 23 11:07 |
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| blackrabbit | hidden services which tor offers is also valuable | Jul 23 11:07 |
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| blackrabbit | but less known | Jul 23 11:07 |
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| blackrabbit | .onion domains | Jul 23 11:07 |
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| blackrabbit | Wikileaks has mirrors there | Jul 23 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | For one thing, you can't hide atfter your name is out. | Jul 23 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | I started this not anonymously because I helped people with Linux (technical stuff), not advocated it or studied Microsoft's abuse. | Jul 23 11:08 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm not discussing your public presence | Jul 23 11:09 |
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| blackrabbit | it's important for some to make themselves known | Jul 23 11:09 |
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| kentma | Wikileaks is intended for people stuck in corporations or governements who want a safe way of whistle-blowing. This is not the same as blogging with an alternative persona. | Jul 23 11:09 |
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| blackrabbit | take Richard Stallman for example | Jul 23 11:09 |
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| blackrabbit | these are people, like you, who are visible and inspire others | Jul 23 11:09 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, this assumes the individual would adopt an alternative persona rather than a blog without a persona assigned | Jul 23 11:10 |
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| blackrabbit | I never suggested using google for blogging anonymously | Jul 23 11:10 |
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| schestowitz | Anonymity is a dream. | Jul 23 11:11 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: not really what I meant. my feeling is that if you start blogging "anonymously", then by definition, you're exposing a facet of yourself which is otherwise hidden, hence it's an alternative persona. It's not about the visible baggage, rather, about the viewpoints and personality which make up the person who is blogging. | Jul 23 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | Any page you visit is a footprint. | Jul 23 11:11 |
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| blackrabbit | considering the amount of data google collects, why would an anonymous blogger choose google? | Jul 23 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | RMS doesn't even browse the Web now (he used wget on a server that mails him pages) | Jul 23 11:12 |
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| schestowitz | PJ won't visit Sys-con. Instewad, people like me send her copies (by mail) of all the slime. There's the issue of IP harvesting, which also affects GL readers. | Jul 23 11:12 |
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| blackrabbit | I was mentioning RMS as a visible figurehead and the importance of individuals, not his browsing habits | Jul 23 11:12 |
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| schestowitz | I flush BN.com logs every night. | Jul 23 11:12 |
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| blackrabbit | why retain them at all? | Jul 23 11:13 |
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| schestowitz | The host generates visual logs from them every night (no raw data, just graphs). | Jul 23 11:13 |
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| schestowitz | Then again, Google is there tracking (AdSense). It wasn't my idea, but Shane put it there to pay the bills (since day 1). | Jul 23 11:14 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, any page you visit is a footprint, and for some, this footprint is in ram and the ip is an exit node or a tor client behind several dozen proxies | Jul 23 11:15 |
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| schestowitz | I think anonymity is an invitation for trouble. | Jul 23 11:16 |
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| blackrabbit | only to the uninitiated | Jul 23 11:17 |
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| schestowitz | It begs the question: why does the person hide in the first place? What are the professional affiliations? No restraints? | Jul 23 11:17 |
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| kentma | you need logs in order to do maintenance. | Jul 23 11:17 |
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| schestowitz | Security? | Jul 23 11:17 |
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| schestowitz | Either way, I've seen how people use logs to trap people. | Jul 23 11:17 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: what will you do when you get found out? do you have a plan? (assuming that you do blog anonymously, that is) | Jul 23 11:18 |
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| schestowitz | I can't go into specifics here, but there was an attempt to expose Microsoft Munnchins some months ago, so people wanted me to use my logs (which I don't have). | Jul 23 11:18 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is probably running some smear campaigns along with its partners, using anonymous blogs and nymshifters. | Jul 23 11:19 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, I don't participate in anonymous blogging, and were I to do so, I wouldn't divulge sensitive exit strategies to a logged channel | Jul 23 11:19 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm merely exercising my fingers | Jul 23 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: is your name Bruce Schneier? ;-) | Jul 23 11:20 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: then how can you recommend it for others? (anonymous blogging, that is!)? | Jul 23 11:20 |
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| blackrabbit | I don't have a name | Jul 23 11:20 |
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| blackrabbit | nor a face | Jul 23 11:20 |
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| blackrabbit | nor anything at all | Jul 23 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | I see... | Jul 23 11:20 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, I can because done right, it works | Jul 23 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | Heard of Rich the Patent Troll Tracker? | Jul 23 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | Do you know how he got exposed and then sued along with Cisco? | Jul 23 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | *Rick | Jul 23 11:21 |
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| blackrabbit | Was this in a recent slashdot post? | Jul 23 11:21 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: you only have to go wrong once, and it's over - statistically, this is pretty much guaranteed to fail in the end. | Jul 23 11:21 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, yes. failure is in the mind of the loser | Jul 23 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | Rick had a millionaire patent troll (earth-level scum) put a bounty on his head. | Jul 23 11:22 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: failure in terms of anonymous blogging would be in the mind of everyone, and indeed, in the public eye, too. | Jul 23 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | Same with data leaks. One leak, one stolen USB key or whatever and *poof* all citizens in the UK are 'naked' | Jul 23 11:23 |
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| blackrabbit | this assumes one has a medium able to be stolen | Jul 23 11:23 |
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| blackrabbit | those who rely on electronic based security methods in sensitive areas always fail | Jul 23 11:23 |
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| blackrabbit | wireless is out and running cables is out, power can always be cut | Jul 23 11:24 |
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| blackrabbit | if they want information bad enough, they'll read it off the reflection of your eye | Jul 23 11:24 |
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| schestowitz | Or engage in waterboarding, which Mr Bush now approves. | Jul 23 11:24 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: the only way of remaining anonymous is to remain silent. Anything else has a discernable risk of exposure - you can minimise it, but you can never remove it. | Jul 23 11:24 |
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| blackrabbit | crafty people depending on your area of expertise | Jul 23 11:24 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, a silent blogger is not a blogger at all | Jul 23 11:25 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: an anonymous blogger is only anonymous for so long. | Jul 23 11:25 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, this assumes the blogger is within the US or is blogging about US interests | Jul 23 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: what about back doors? | Jul 23 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | At PC level? | Jul 23 11:25 |
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| blackrabbit | hardware level of course | Jul 23 11:26 |
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| blackrabbit | and the wonderfully closed bios | Jul 23 11:26 |
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| blackrabbit | but we're going deep into tin hattery here | Jul 23 11:26 |
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| schestowitz | That too. Also packet level (encryption has back doors sometimes). | Jul 23 11:26 |
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| blackrabbit | I do not anonymously blog, so the subject is of no further interest to me | Jul 23 11:26 |
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| schestowitz | All provable by the way (I could fetch my refs) | Jul 23 11:26 |
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| blackrabbit | your microsoft post you mentioned earlier, though, is schestowitz | Jul 23 11:26 |
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| blackrabbit | certainly | Jul 23 11:27 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: then you have no real experience in this at all? | Jul 23 11:27 |
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| blackrabbit | believe what you wish | Jul 23 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | Apart from the text? | Jul 23 11:27 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: pardon? | Jul 23 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | PCs and networks are engineered around control. | Jul 23 11:27 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, you have your belief, I'm not here to sway it | Jul 23 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | SPAMMERS are sheltered only by layers of complexity and scale. | Jul 23 11:28 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: err, no, it's what you said... | Jul 23 11:28 |
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| blackrabbit | my interest here is in schestowitz's website and discussion of it | Jul 23 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | If they use many bots and a chain of proxies they can still be found. But when 320000000 zombie PCs exist, where does one start? It can be done, either way. | Jul 23 11:28 |
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| blackrabbit | anything is possible | Jul 23 11:29 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: you said that you do not blog anonymously, but you also were adamant that it could be done. Ergo, you have no experience of it, and are merely speculating. This is what you said, not my belief of anything. | Jul 23 11:29 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, believe what you wish | Jul 23 11:29 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: you said that you do not blog anonymously, but you also were adamant that it could be done. Ergo, you have no experience of it, and are merely speculating. This is what you said, not my belief of anything. | Jul 23 11:29 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, why would you say Schneier? | Jul 23 11:29 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, it can be done, yes, I am not on here to prove anything | Jul 23 11:30 |
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| schestowitz | About you? Just a joke. I think he's overrated but I like his writings. | Jul 23 11:30 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: But as you've never done it, you don't actually have any experience, so you're guessing. | Jul 23 11:30 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, for the last time, believe as you wish | Jul 23 11:30 |
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| schestowitz | Anonymous blogging is as possible as your host/admin/cops/govt want it to be. | Jul 23 11:30 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: this is not about my beliefs, sorry - this is about your claims. | Jul 23 11:30 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: you claim to be sure about being able to blog anonymously, and yet you say you've never done it. The only possible conclusion, assuming you're not being dishonest, is that you're guessing. | Jul 23 11:31 |
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| blackrabbit | this assumes the local interests are interested enough in said blogging | Jul 23 11:31 |
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| blackrabbit | let's say I wanted to anonymously blog about rabbits | Jul 23 11:32 |
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| blackrabbit | what then? | Jul 23 11:32 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: no, exposure can readily be by accident. It's about probabilities, that's all. | Jul 23 11:32 |
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| blackrabbit | who would care enough to find the blogger who loves rabbits? | Jul 23 11:32 |
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| schestowitz | There's always some McCreevy type to serve interest like a satellite, inter-continental even. | Jul 23 11:32 |
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| blackrabbit | and why would they care? | Jul 23 11:32 |
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| blackrabbit | indeed | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| schestowitz | Rabbits? | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| blackrabbit | satellites are fun | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, rabbits | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| schestowitz | Who would complain? Rabbits that you slander? | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| blackrabbit | an overly mundane example | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| blackrabbit | heh | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| schestowitz | It has to have monetary or personal incentive. | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, sure, I'm guessing, will this end the discussion? | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: you still miss the point about probabilities - monetary advantage doesn't need to come into it at all. | Jul 23 11:33 |
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| schestowitz | Seen what they did to PJ.. or to Geer...? | Jul 23 11:34 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, it's not my final word on it, but anything to end the spotlight of accusation | Jul 23 11:34 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: thankyou - I presume it's safe to ignore the rest of it, then. | Jul 23 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | Just give me 5 minutes and I'll blog about it. | Jul 23 11:34 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: anonymously or openly :-) | Jul 23 11:34 |
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| blackrabbit | lol | Jul 23 11:35 |
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| blackrabbit | it would be amusing if the name and photo of schestowitz was fake | Jul 23 11:35 |
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| schestowitz | I thought about it before. | Jul 23 11:35 |
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| kentma | ah, but I happen to know that they're not - I've met Roy. | Jul 23 11:35 |
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| schestowitz | I was accused some times of not existing. | Jul 23 11:35 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: yesterday the trolls accused me of being [H]omer | Jul 23 11:36 |
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| blackrabbit | you get trolls in here? | Jul 23 11:36 |
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| schestowitz | Not here, but in the advocacy newsgroup. | Jul 23 11:36 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: anything to upset, I think. Most of their approach seems to be to draw out some kind of angry response in order to be able to hold it against people. | Jul 23 11:36 |
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| kentma | any pretence of debating facts was abandoned long long ago in cola. | Jul 23 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | Some are former Microsoft employees. They invade Linux fora. | Jul 23 11:37 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: take a look in cola, but keep your tin hat on - it's dreadful. | Jul 23 11:37 |
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| blackrabbit | I may take a peek | Jul 23 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: that;s why I don't reply, no matter the insult or libel. | Jul 23 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | http://groups.google.com/group/com... | Jul 23 11:38 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: I do try to ignore whereever possible. | Jul 23 11:38 |
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| blackrabbit | is there any documented reference to anyone working for Microsoft who has leaked information, gaining employment in order to leak? | Jul 23 11:38 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: the hallowe'en documents were clearly leaked, although I don't know why. | Jul 23 11:38 |
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| blackrabbit | corporations plant people at rivals all of the time | Jul 23 11:38 |
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| blackrabbit | but I'm curious if there's ever been any leakers with the intent to leak | Jul 23 11:39 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: interesting remark - something myself and colleagues have speculated on for a long time - do you have any actual proof of this which can be exposed? | Jul 23 11:39 |
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| blackrabbit | proof of which | Jul 23 11:39 |
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| blackrabbit | corporate plants? | Jul 23 11:39 |
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| kentma | yes | Jul 23 11:39 |
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| blackrabbit | isn't this covered in any real business course? | Jul 23 11:40 |
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| blackrabbit | that sort of thing happens all of the time | Jul 23 11:40 |
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| blackrabbit | it's dramatized in hollywood but it is part of the workings of big business | Jul 23 11:40 |
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| kentma | I know the theory, but I mean actual proof... documents, payment proof, contracts, even emails, anything at all? | Jul 23 11:41 |
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| blackrabbit | one could google I suppose | Jul 23 11:41 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: if you need documents, just ask. | Jul 23 11:41 |
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| schestowitz | We have a gold mine. | Jul 23 11:41 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: of planted workers? | Jul 23 11:41 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: Sen and VMWare are ruined by plants. | Jul 23 11:42 |
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| schestowitz | Ron Hovsepian too might be an example. | Jul 23 11:42 |
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| schestowitz | BN.com covered this before. | Jul 23 11:42 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, may I suggest a brief article with some links regarding this topic? | Jul 23 11:42 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, a side article perhaps | Jul 23 11:42 |
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| schestowitz | According to one professor whom I correspond with, Microsoft is doing the same thing to Google at the moment. | Jul 23 11:42 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, to stroke the imagination of where this could occur today | Jul 23 11:42 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, was this also done to Novell? | Jul 23 11:43 |
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| blackrabbit | to Linspire? | Jul 23 11:43 |
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| blackrabbit | better still, to Xandros? | Jul 23 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: it would have to be a set of links. | Jul 23 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Like the Microsoft finance post, which received _a lot_ of unexpected attention (I only did it because a reader asked), it's a rerun of old info. | Jul 23 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know about Linspire. | Jul 23 11:44 |
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| kentma | ahh, lots of smoke, but yet no fire. | Jul 23 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | In FOSS: also be careful of OpenLogic (Microsoft roots in the CEO), Black Duck (CEO from Microsoft), and a variety of other projects. | Jul 23 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | SourceForce along with NewsForge seems to be going through a similar transition at the moment. | Jul 23 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | Do we need fire? Let me think.. | Jul 23 11:45 |
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| blackrabbit | yes | Jul 23 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | I guess the only gun you can pull is one where a Microsoft staffer expresses intent to poison a rival using workforce. | Jul 23 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know of an Iowa exhibit of this nature and, either way, it would be out of date (rivals that Microsoft had put in the grave already) | Jul 23 11:47 |
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| schestowitz | take VMWare for example. | Jul 23 11:47 |
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| schestowitz | All we have is strong circumstational evidence. | Jul 23 11:47 |
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| kentma | Oh, I'm quite sure that this is going on, don't misunderstand me, but I'd *love* to get my hands on some proof. | Jul 23 11:47 |
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| schestowitz | I use it only as an example that's most recent.. They sacked Diane shortly after EMC had become Microsoft's Partner of the Year. | Jul 23 11:48 |
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| blackrabbit | sure, a brief posting of links would suffice | Jul 23 11:48 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm wondering how long Ubuntu and Red Hat will hold out | Jul 23 11:48 |
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| schestowitz | Months beforehand I was stunned to find Maritz sneaking into EMC (WTF????). It's almost like they had it all planned and did it in stages. | Jul 23 11:49 |
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| schestowitz | Ubuntu's problem is different. | Jul 23 11:49 |
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| blackrabbit | heh | Jul 23 11:49 |
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| schestowitz | They don't employ the de Icaza's (though they used to have Jeff Waugh) but them and RHAT/Fedora get Miguels's junk code (Mono), which is poison. | Jul 23 11:49 |
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| kentma | Ubuntu and Red Hat will remain staunchly independent of MS, I'm 100% sure. | Jul 23 11:50 |
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| schestowitz | I'm going to post about Debian later. They push away Mono. Finally. | Jul 23 11:50 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, there have been many calls by users to dump mono in Ubuntu | Jul 23 11:50 |
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| schestowitz | Partly thanks to our efforts in BN.com. | Jul 23 11:50 |
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| blackrabbit | I forgot to mention Debian | Jul 23 11:50 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, minus the codecs/dell issue | Jul 23 11:50 |
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| schestowitz | I didn't buy my PC from Dell. I only checked. | Jul 23 11:51 |
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| kentma | even Debian have installers for such things, though. | Jul 23 11:51 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm surprised the MS gorilla hasn't thrown a banana at the Wine project | Jul 23 11:51 |
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| kentma | similarly, such as maemo have kernel drivers which are proprietary. | Jul 23 11:51 |
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| blackrabbit | and I don't mean by way of support | Jul 23 11:51 |
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| schestowitz | They STILL offer just F*** Intel.. and guess that?? They were caught last year doing a bribery thing with Intel. No probe, nio imprisonment, no compensation of angry investors. | Jul 23 11:51 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: I think they're happy for it to exist - it proves that there is competition in the market... | Jul 23 11:52 |
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| blackrabbit | true | Jul 23 11:52 |
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| blackrabbit | What has Microsoft offered to Linux, in interoperability, other than words and a forum? | Jul 23 11:52 |
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| blackrabbit | Where is directx for linux? | Jul 23 11:52 |
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| blackrabbit | Where is IE for linux? | Jul 23 11:52 |
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| blackrabbit | Where is Office for Linux? | Jul 23 11:52 |
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| schestowitz | Nokia is out there in OSCON I think... trying to steal developers for Symbian (Open EclipsourceBS) | Jul 23 11:52 |
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| schestowitz | Speaking of which, Maemo will have an event in Berlin soon. | Jul 23 11:52 |
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| blackrabbit | Yes, I was amused by the Nokia/Symbian open sourcing announcement | Jul 23 11:53 |
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| kentma | I know - I got the invite a few days ago... | Jul 23 11:53 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: Apple could ask the same question. | Jul 23 11:53 |
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| blackrabbit | Indeed | Jul 23 11:53 |
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| blackrabbit | I refuse to buy anything from Apple | Jul 23 11:53 |
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| blackrabbit | or use anything from Apple | Jul 23 11:53 |
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| schestowitz | Seen their deal? I have the video. They /USED/ Apple to make monopolyware have 100% market share... Office, IE... | Jul 23 11:53 |
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| schestowitz | Apple is sadly enough glorified in the press. | Jul 23 11:54 |
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| kentma | I'm not a huge apple fan, although they do make good quality hardware. My no1 son is a major apple fan, though, has a powerpcg2 and a mini. | Jul 23 11:54 |
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| schestowitz | It's portrayed as the saver from monopoly, but the issue of iTunes/iPod monopoly is ignored, not to mention DRM. | Jul 23 11:54 |
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| schestowitz | Google too is a proprietary software monopoly. | Jul 23 11:54 |
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| schestowitz | IBM is in-between and Sun is getting quite good actually. | Jul 23 11:55 |
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| kentma | google stand to lose from the agpl, if it ever gets traction. | Jul 23 11:55 |
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| schestowitz | It already does. | Jul 23 11:55 |
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| schestowitz | Adoption was expected to be minuscule, but it's now eating GPLv3's lunch. | Jul 23 11:55 |
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| blackrabbit | Apple has the money | Jul 23 11:56 |
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| blackrabbit | if you have the money you have money to market a clean and nice figure | Jul 23 11:56 |
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| kentma | apple's margins are huge. | Jul 23 11:56 |
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| schestowitz | Apple too is a big advertisers, but the people who are fans drive adoption and publicity. | Jul 23 11:56 |
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| kentma | apple are like B&O. | Jul 23 11:56 |
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| schestowitz | On the bright side, Apple just ignores Linux; it doesn't attack it, yet. | Jul 23 11:56 |
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| blackrabbit | what repulsed me was the mac vs. pc ads | Jul 23 11:56 |
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| blackrabbit | as if there was only a gates presence on the pc | Jul 23 11:56 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Jul 23 11:57 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm curious why Apple hasn't adopted Linux | Jul 23 11:57 |
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| schestowitz | Well, Microsoft butters both sides of the toast. Microsoft likes Apple for the effect on FOSS. | Jul 23 11:57 |
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| blackrabbit | If they were really in competition with MS and not a partner | Jul 23 11:57 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft can use Apple to promote IPR. | Jul 23 11:57 |
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| schestowitz | It's an investor, too. | Jul 23 11:57 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: the engineers at Apple wanted Linux. | Jul 23 11:57 |
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| schestowitz | With iPhone coming, it's clear why Job rejected Linux... GPL! | Jul 23 11:58 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: they're a proprietary company with huge margins - linux is about selling services not software - if they can keep their margins whilst adopting BSD code, from a business perspective, then it makes sense to milk it whilst they can. | Jul 23 11:58 |
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| schestowitz | The iPhone is a Tivo machine in your pocket. | Jul 23 11:58 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, wouldn't it make sense to deliver specialized hardware directly developed for Linux? | Jul 23 11:58 |
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| kentma | The iPhone has an amazing model - Apple make money out every call you make or message you send. | Jul 23 11:58 |
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| schestowitz | Apple goes for upper crust though. | Jul 23 11:59 |
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| schestowitz | They know they can't beat Linux. | Jul 23 11:59 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: it might well do, but for Apple, they're used to controlling from the top to the bottom, so going in half-way up is just not what they would do. Their customers seem to expect them to do this, too. | Jul 23 11:59 |
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| schestowitz | It's a niche market assuming that now everyone buys a new PC and gadgets. Microsoft addresses this 'issue' by doing bogus 'charity'. Have our binary... send ous data... be addicted. | Jul 23 11:59 |
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| kentma | what's amazing about apple for me is how people will pay so much money for something where there are clearly much less expensive alternatives which are just as capable. | Jul 23 12:00 |
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| kentma | I think when people buy apple, like B&O or Rolls Royce or Cartier or Yves Saint Laurent or Gucci, they're buying a lifestyle, rather than a machine. | Jul 23 12:01 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, what was this post you were mentioning earlier about? | Jul 23 12:01 |
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| blackrabbit | correct | Jul 23 12:02 |
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| blackrabbit | it's the perception | Jul 23 12:02 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: they buy a dream, not a lifestyle. | Jul 23 12:02 |
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| blackrabbit | they say ooooo it's unix | Jul 23 12:02 |
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| blackrabbit | but it's unix with proprietary mixed | Jul 23 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | Why else would people pay for champagne 10 times what they pay for regular wine? | Jul 23 12:03 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: people seem willing to pay a lot more for a dream than they do for a reality. Maybe this is why engineers and scientists are so poor at marketing generally. | Jul 23 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | You are not allowed to display Mac products in certain ways. The perception must be controlled. Microsoft tried similar stuff with Vista. | Jul 23 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: limousine fantasies and prom nights are good examples of this. | Jul 23 12:04 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, returning briefly to what we were discussing earlier, have you read the paper on peculiar means to garnish information from the screen of a computer? | Jul 23 12:05 |
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| schestowitz | "Be a Prince... for a few hours... having worked for weeks or months." But anyway, that's nor the point. It's the same everywhere in society. it's a social thing -- government-imposed control of minds. | Jul 23 12:05 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: I recall the project to monitor television scan information remotely, and visually reproduce it - is that the one you mean? | Jul 23 12:05 |
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| blackrabbit | the use of telescopes and gleaning of information from reflective surfaces in the user's environment, teapots and even the human eye | Jul 23 12:05 |
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| blackrabbit | it's a fascinating article | Jul 23 12:05 |
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| schestowitz | Just watch the portrayals of war films and use of viole nt games to spur recruitment of soldiers. | Jul 23 12:05 |
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| blackrabbit | that is TEMPEST, different | Jul 23 12:06 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: ahh, no, I've not seen that one - if you have a ref, I'd be interested. | Jul 23 12:06 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: did you see the project to remotely monitor television pictures at all? | Jul 23 12:06 |
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| blackrabbit | allow me to check my links, if I don't have it on hand I may be able to reproduce it later for you | Jul 23 12:06 |
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| kentma | I would appreciate that, thankyou. | Jul 23 12:06 |
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| blackrabbit | this is TEMPEST you're referring to | Jul 23 12:06 |
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| blackrabbit | google eckbox | Jul 23 12:06 |
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| blackrabbit | there were similar projects but they were... silenced or abandoned | Jul 23 12:07 |
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| blackrabbit | there's also tempest for eliza program which crudely demonstrates the possibility of this | Jul 23 12:07 |
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| blackrabbit | welcome | Jul 23 12:07 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm not sure, having never acquired the hardware nor would I, that eckbox works | Jul 23 12:07 |
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| blackrabbit | were I employed legally to perform the work, it would be interesting | Jul 23 12:07 |
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| blackrabbit | but | Jul 23 12:07 |
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| blackrabbit | in using reflections in the user's environment it's easier | Jul 23 12:08 |
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| blackrabbit | in nearby objects and the user's eye | Jul 23 12:08 |
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| blackrabbit | you can gain information from the user's screen | Jul 23 12:08 |
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| blackrabbit | it's interesting stuff | Jul 23 12:08 |
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| blackrabbit | the paper was short, but detailed enough for a glimpse | Jul 23 12:08 |
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| kentma | I suppose that as the eye is somewhat reflective, given the right optics, it ought to be possible to resolve information from that. | Jul 23 12:09 |
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| blackrabbit | this might be it | Jul 23 12:09 |
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| blackrabbit | please look and tell me if it shows a photo of reflections on household items of the computer screen and the user's eye: | Jul 23 12:09 |
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| blackrabbit | http://www.infsec.cs.uni-sb.de/~un... | Jul 23 12:09 |
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| kentma | I would've thought that the difficulty would be tracking the eye & head movements. | Jul 23 12:10 |
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| kentma | yes, you're right - it's about using refflections to find out what was on a display. | Jul 23 12:11 |
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| blackrabbit | superb, I'm happy to have found it again | Jul 23 12:11 |
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| kentma | It does say that readability is limited by camera resolution for eye-shot images, but presumably that will also depend on being quite still as the image is captured. | Jul 23 12:11 |
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| blackrabbit | I know I have it on backups but forgot the location | Jul 23 12:11 |
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| kentma | hehe | Jul 23 12:11 |
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| blackrabbit | correct, but high powered telescopes are able to catch a lot of info | Jul 23 12:12 |
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| blackrabbit | coupled with a digital camera integrated into such device | Jul 23 12:12 |
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| blackrabbit | to me it's a fascinating area of research | Jul 23 12:12 |
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| blackrabbit | LCD monitors are in no way exempt from tempest btw | Jul 23 12:12 |
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| blackrabbit | these tricks are more decloaking methods used to unveil anonymous bloggers or people of interest | Jul 23 12:13 |
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| blackrabbit | but social engineering is usually enough | Jul 23 12:13 |
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| kentma | ah, it also goes on to say that as the eye moves rapidly, the images get blurred... ;-) | Jul 23 12:13 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: just posted that thing I told you I would: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... | Jul 23 12:13 |
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| blackrabbit | just insert an attractive female into the person's life, interested in their computer expertise | Jul 23 12:13 |
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| blackrabbit | thank you schestowitz how kind of you | Jul 23 12:14 |
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| blackrabbit | "My, you're sure handy with that computer! Teach me how to blog anonymously!" wink wink | Jul 23 12:14 |
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| blackrabbit | or one afternoon chatting over the computer in question | Jul 23 12:14 |
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| blackrabbit | hello backdoor! | Jul 23 12:14 |
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| schestowitz | I'm going to write about Debian and Mono now. Long piece. | Jul 23 12:14 |
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| blackrabbit | or disk image | Jul 23 12:14 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, excellent, how about a brief article about company plants? | Jul 23 12:15 |
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| blackrabbit | or links? | Jul 23 12:15 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmm... | Jul 23 12:15 |
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| blackrabbit | kentma, how many comatose web surfers do you know whose eyes blink often or move rapidly? | Jul 23 12:15 |
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| schestowitz | Let's make a list: Xen (I have some refs about Redmond the Microsoft GM plant)... VMWare.... Novell (Miguel and Nat... I used to suspect Steinman too because of Groklaw... but then Hovsepian came out through a leak from a source I cannot name)... | Jul 23 12:16 |
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| kentma | eye movement isn't directly controlled, though - it's dominated by hard-wired brain reactions. It's virtually impossible to ignore movement. | Jul 23 12:16 |
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| blackrabbit | a dozen hours of video data should trim off the fat of those brief periods of rapid movement | Jul 23 12:16 |
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| schestowitz | About Debian, I think I'll close comments, or else the Mono fans will start flaming. | Jul 23 12:16 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: also, as we're not insects, we have to turn our heads to locate sound-sources (we only detect pressure, not direction), so the head moves quite a lot naturally, too. | Jul 23 12:17 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, good idea | Jul 23 12:19 |
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| kentma | It's a good paper. It also serves to reinforce my view that if you want to keep something secret, then don't document it in any way, and never telll anyone. | Jul 23 12:21 |
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| kentma | The "tempest" stuff has been in use in MI5 since the late 1940s/early 1950s. Basic eavesdropping was commonplace in the 1940s, Bletchley Park being the centre of the UK's activities. | Jul 23 12:23 |
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| blackrabbit | that defeats the purpose of informing people though | Jul 23 12:23 |
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| kentma | indeed - my point being that informing people openly is much safer, is you can't be "outed". | Jul 23 12:24 |
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| blackrabbit | the tempest stuff doesn't interest me as much as other means of physical monitoring and social engineering | Jul 23 12:24 |
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| blackrabbit | http://www.williamson-labs.com/l... | Jul 23 12:25 |
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| blackrabbit | I disagree | Jul 23 12:25 |
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| kentma | The russians had a really brilliant passive microphone, which when illuminated with suitable microwave radation, would modulate the beam with audio from the room it was in and re-radiate it for remote pick-up. The other interesting audio one is shining a laser on a window and decoding modulation from the reflected beam. | Jul 23 12:25 |
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| kentma | disagree with what? | Jul 23 12:25 |
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| blackrabbit | with a thread I don't wish to continue | Jul 23 12:27 |
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| blackrabbit | I simply disagree with a public presence vs. a pseudo-anonymous presence in delivering information | Jul 23 12:28 |
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| blackrabbit | I don't wish to argue it | Jul 23 12:28 |
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| blackrabbit | MLK wasn't anonymous either | Jul 23 12:28 |
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| blackrabbit | sure, he could've been outed | Jul 23 12:28 |
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| schestowitz | Information without a face has its credibility powered. | Jul 23 12:28 |
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| schestowitz | Safety and credibility are a case of antagonism. | Jul 23 12:29 |
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| blackrabbit | instead, by being public, they tried to drive him to suicide | Jul 23 12:29 |
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| schestowitz | Just watch how Wikileaks is challenged. | Jul 23 12:29 |
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| schestowitz | Oops. /s/powered/lowered/ | Jul 23 12:29 |
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| kentma | The abuse of legal power to stop whilst-blowing needs to be challenged. Going anonymous merely serves to accept the status-quo, to my mind. | Jul 23 12:30 |
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| kentma | *whistle | Jul 23 12:30 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, but go ahead and try to change the system. | Jul 23 12:31 |
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| schestowitz | It's easier to provide samples of information for tose with the power to change it. | Jul 23 12:32 |
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| schestowitz | For example, ushering a lawsuit against BSI by showing how it got f*ed by Microsoft and its partners in the UK. | Jul 23 12:32 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: I agree with you, of course. What I do not really agree with is that remaining anonymous is likely to help, since it undermines the information signficantly, as well as leaving the informant at risk of being exposed anyway. | Jul 23 12:35 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Jul 23 12:36 |
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| kentma | I can see that, in some geographies, anonymity might be the only way, but even that is going to be extremely difficult to achieve, since governments can pretty much do what they want in the name of "security". | Jul 23 12:36 |
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| kentma | The worst thing is that the more the need to be anonymous is important, so the greater the need for exposure - the name for this is dissidence, btw. | Jul 23 12:37 |
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| schestowitz | Well, passing of liability by referencing everything is easy (I hate 'articles' because by their nature, just like newspapers, they omit bibliography).. | Jul 23 12:37 |
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| schestowitz | RSS feeds are a wonderful thing for accumulation of pertinent facts and quotes.... from people's own mouths. | Jul 23 12:38 |
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| kentma | Incidentally, the shift in USPTO patent position is massive... has anyone realised just how big this is? | Jul 23 12:39 |
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| schestowitz | Glyn did | Jul 23 12:39 |
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| schestowitz | I trust him on that one. | Jul 23 12:39 |
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| schestowitz | Groklaw put it in Picks, but hasn't blogged it (yet?) | Jul 23 12:40 |
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| kentma | I've just banged this over to our legal folk for their consideration, too. | Jul 23 12:40 |
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| schestowitz | I wrote about it a few hours ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/23/n... | Jul 23 12:40 |
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| schestowitz | I thought about domino effect... as in... Australia, Japan... | Jul 23 12:41 |
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| schestowitz | Glyn says he's not yet ready to pop the champagne. That's his expression of cautious optimism anyway. | Jul 23 12:42 |
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| schestowitz | Almost there with Debian now. I'll close comments. | Jul 23 12:49 |
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| schestowitz | Done. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... | Jul 23 12:56 |
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| blackrabbit | this is also of interest, kentma | Jul 23 12:58 |
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| blackrabbit | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/digitallife/ma... | Jul 23 12:58 |
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| blackrabbit | Stasi used radioactive spray to track dissidents - Telegraph | Jul 23 12:58 |
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| blackrabbit | http://technology.newscientis... | Jul 23 12:59 |
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| blackrabbit | but first and foremost, the mind is targeted, to drive you insane or think you're going insane | Jul 23 13:03 |
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| schestowitz | Slipping of pills into people's drinks, eh? I think the US government tried to quiet down war protesters that way. | Jul 23 13:04 |
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| blackrabbit | war protesters are useless | Jul 23 13:05 |
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| blackrabbit | even the high profile woman gave it up | Jul 23 13:05 |
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| blackrabbit | it's futile | Jul 23 13:05 |
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| schestowitz | Well, the claims say that you just need to have an embarrassing display (cue Ballmer's monkey dance) to destory one's credibility. | Jul 23 13:05 |
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| blackrabbit | well demonstrated: | Jul 23 13:05 |
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| blackrabbit | http://www.commondreams.org/arch... | Jul 23 13:05 |
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| schestowitz | brb | Jul 23 13:06 |
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| blackrabbit | eccentricity is a common way of slight of hand | Jul 23 13:07 |
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| blackrabbit | acting stupid or strange | Jul 23 13:07 |
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| blackrabbit | and so people overlook the real agenda | Jul 23 13:07 |
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| schestowitz | RMS is smeared in this waty too. | Jul 23 13:16 |
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| blackrabbit | does RMS have a cell phone? | Jul 23 13:16 |
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| schestowitz | No. never. | Jul 23 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | Anyway, they try to draw attention to his appearance to retract the message he bears. | Jul 23 13:17 |
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| blackrabbit | indeed | Jul 23 13:18 |
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| schestowitz | But that's another subject. It remains to be seen how much prodding is involved in eroding his image. | Jul 23 13:19 |
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| blackrabbit | his message remains | Jul 23 13:30 |
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| schestowitz | Where? He was lucky to get a BBC article (probably watered down) | Jul 23 13:32 |
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| blackrabbit | yes I seem to recall one article | Jul 23 13:35 |
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| blackrabbit | it contained two photos, if I recall | Jul 23 13:35 |
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| blackrabbit | one of him in a not so presentable pose | Jul 23 13:35 |
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| blackrabbit | and a short haired, clean cut opposer | Jul 23 13:35 |
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| blackrabbit | if I'm correct | Jul 23 13:35 |
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| blackrabbit | the text about him wasn't too flattering, either | Jul 23 13:35 |
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| blackrabbit | one could investigate who the article writer was and his background | Jul 23 13:35 |
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| schestowitz | The media makes idols out of athletes and rich people, so people accused him of attacking a 'charity'. They were surely brainwashed by the BillyPress. | Jul 23 13:37 |
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| blackrabbit | of course, the intellect is trashed | Jul 23 13:37 |
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| blackrabbit | praise the low browed ball player! | Jul 23 13:37 |
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| schestowitz | The BBC has just appointed a Microsoft executive for the technology side of media delivery. What's hard for people to get their heads around is the notion of media mind shaping | Jul 23 13:37 |
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| schestowitz | Perfect political nirvana: people are preoccupied with sports and celebrities while robber barons are glorified. Well, there's no escape. | Jul 23 13:39 |
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| blackrabbit | lol | Jul 23 13:40 |
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| blackrabbit | that's pathetic | Jul 23 13:41 |
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| schestowitz | Just posted the links for the morning. Some people read the site only for the links. See the last one about breaking the law. Rhetorical Q: does Obama have the power to put these thugs in prison? http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... | Jul 23 13:48 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, just got this E-mail: "I have what I believe is good question relevant to the expiration of the mp3 patents under the "Mono Is Too Controversial for Debian" article, but that article is currently closed for comments. Would it be possible to open it for my question?" | Jul 23 13:54 |
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| schestowitz | Just spotted: Snooping requests go through the roof ( http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/in... ) | Jul 23 13:59 |
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| kentma | on your political nirvana thing, it really has ever been thus. We've had religion, then drugs of various kinds, the occasional war, more drugs of various kinds, and now we have the "media" who purvey a stream of soft & hard porn and mindless drivel about "celebrities". Oh yeah, and interestingly, there's not all that much drive to stamp out the drugs trade, either... | Jul 23 14:10 |
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| schestowitz | Or the wars. :-) | Jul 23 14:11 |
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| kentma | indeed! | Jul 23 14:11 |
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| kentma | hehe | Jul 23 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | The TV still glorifies gun culture. | Jul 23 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | You see 4 year olds running around with plastic pistols. it's fashionable. | Jul 23 14:11 |
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| blackrabbit | http://www.jsonline.com/... | Jul 23 14:27 |
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| blackrabbit | http://www.thesmokinggun.com/a... | Jul 23 14:27 |
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| blackrabbit | glorification of violence in general | Jul 23 14:27 |
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| blackrabbit | keeps the populace in check, citizen against citizen | Jul 23 14:27 |
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| blackrabbit | it breeds nut cases | Jul 23 14:27 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: I lost patience with this, but esp. for you: http://boycottnovell.com/20... | Jul 23 14:33 |
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| blackrabbit | heh, thanks I'll check it today! | Jul 23 14:34 |
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| blackrabbit | is it about the previous conversation regarding the corporate planting schema? | Jul 23 14:35 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, but where it's not substantiated it says so. | Jul 23 14:35 |
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| schestowitz | I don't believe in planting per se (not most of the time). People find news jobs but Microsoft can bother to influence them... use them as pawns. | Jul 23 14:37 |
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| schestowitz | Weird E-mail I just got a moment ago: "Hey there! Alex Brown is your latest fan. He became your fan because he likes what you are up to on Digg and wants to see what you think is interesting. You can either leave him as a fan or add him to your own list of friends. Check out his profile here: http://digg.com/users/alexgreenb?OTC-em-fn1 ". I suppose you know another "Alex Brown" and it's no friend. | Jul 23 14:39 |
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| blackrabbit | then there's this: | Jul 23 14:39 |
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| blackrabbit | http://origin.denverpost.com/tec... | Jul 23 14:39 |
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| blackrabbit | The body of Thomas, who family members said began recently suffering from bipolar disorder and delusions that he was being tracked by aliens and the government, was discovered near the base of a 985-foot Oahu cliff, according to newspaper reports. | Jul 23 14:39 |
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| blackrabbit | Steven Thomas, considered a security visionary for founding anti-spyware company Webroot, was discovered dead Sunday in Hawaii, some two weeks after he was reported missing. | Jul 23 14:39 |
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| schestowitz | Some might pretend to be nuts for mitigation of punishment. | Jul 23 14:39 |
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| blackrabbit | voice to skull technology is interesting | Jul 23 14:39 |
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| schestowitz | Oh THAT! | Jul 23 14:40 |
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| blackrabbit | I believe what Linus said recently about Digg users was spot on | Jul 23 14:40 |
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| schestowitz | I heard about it. I think it was a physical/mental illness though. | Jul 23 14:40 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, perhaps | Jul 23 14:40 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, or perhaps not | Jul 23 14:40 |
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| schestowitz | well, Linus took the piss. | Jul 23 14:40 |
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| schestowitz | Being the most prolific comment in that site (I think), I would take that as an insult. | Jul 23 14:40 |
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| blackrabbit | In April, just prior to the diagnosis, Thomas alarmed family members when he ran naked into a walk/run event near his home and then hugged a police officer. | Jul 23 14:44 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I read that before. | Jul 23 14:45 |
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| blackrabbit | interesting: | Jul 23 14:45 |
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| blackrabbit | Steven Thomas, considered a security visionary for founding anti-spyware company Webroot, was discovered dead Sunday in Hawaii, some two weeks after he was reported missing. | Jul 23 14:45 |
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| schestowitz | Any other bizarre sighting? Maybe he was drunk or stones or something. Maybe that's related to depression? | Jul 23 14:45 |
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| blackrabbit | oops | Jul 23 14:45 |
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| blackrabbit | good paste: | Jul 23 14:45 |
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| blackrabbit | Thomas won a statewide chess tournament at 10 and toyed with computers before most people owned one. When he was 14, the FBI paid a visit to his Boulder home after he hacked into a supercomputer at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Moll said. | Jul 23 14:45 |
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| schestowitz | Classic. He's not alone. | Jul 23 14:46 |
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| blackrabbit | I wonder if he refused to whitelist certain "spyware" | Jul 23 14:47 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. Well, I didn't learn much about him. Just read the gist about the death. | Jul 23 14:47 |
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| schestowitz | Spotted just now: http://feeds.pcworld.com/~r/pcwo... ( With DNS Flaw Now Public, Attack Code Imminent ) | Jul 23 14:48 |
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| schestowitz | Some sites were down due to DNS issue. I'm on the safe side myself. | Jul 23 14:48 |
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| blackrabbit | Heh | Jul 23 14:49 |
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| blackrabbit | Wasn't this patched recently ? | Jul 23 14:49 |
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| schestowitz | Novell too has some patches to issue. | Jul 23 14:49 |
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| blackrabbit | I read some brief article about some stifling of a dns issue on slashdot | Jul 23 14:49 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it leaked. | Jul 23 14:49 |
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| blackrabbit | don't know if this is related | Jul 23 14:49 |
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| schestowitz | They knew about it years ago, but done nothing. | Jul 23 14:49 |
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| schestowitz | So next time they mock Debian, show 'em this. | Jul 23 14:49 |
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| blackrabbit | was/ | Jul 23 14:50 |
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| blackrabbit | thanks I'll check my feeds | Jul 23 14:50 |
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| schestowitz | Rabbits read feeds? | Jul 23 14:50 |
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| blackrabbit | the crypto flaw in debian was interesting | Jul 23 14:50 |
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| blackrabbit | sure pissed off a lot of tor hidden server ops running debian | Jul 23 14:50 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, feeds are essential | Jul 23 14:50 |
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| blackrabbit | in between hay and green grass | Jul 23 14:51 |
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| schestowitz | Windows is equally hackable. I posted a response to BN.com the day it made the news. | Jul 23 14:51 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008... | Jul 23 14:51 |
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| blackrabbit | I was amused by a recent Word exploit | Jul 23 14:51 |
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| schestowitz | Just needed to Google 'back door novell suse". It was the first result. ;-) ;-) | Jul 23 14:51 |
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| blackrabbit | it's amazing how many exploits continue to come to light | Jul 23 14:51 |
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| blackrabbit | thanks | Jul 23 14:51 |
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| blackrabbit | maybe the suse logo should have a little mailbox slot beneath the tail | Jul 23 14:52 |
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| blackrabbit | with a ms flag on top | Jul 23 14:52 |
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| schestowitz | Well, well... | Jul 23 14:52 |
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| blackrabbit | and a big smile on the lizard's face | Jul 23 14:52 |
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| schestowitz | SUSE is one of the few that got NSA 'treatment' | Jul 23 14:52 |
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| schestowitz | Smile? Nah, it's already there by default. | Jul 23 14:53 |
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| schestowitz | I wonder if "have a lot of fun" is echoed for the user to read... or the NSA. | Jul 23 14:53 |
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| blackrabbit | heh | Jul 23 14:53 |
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| schestowitz | Wow!! | Jul 23 14:55 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07... | Jul 23 14:55 |
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| schestowitz | Big surprise 'cause of the Microsoft ads in Digg. | Jul 23 14:55 |
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| blackrabbit | yes I read a rumor about that the other day | Jul 23 14:55 |
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| blackrabbit | I hope Google gets it | Jul 23 14:55 |
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| blackrabbit | should be amusing to see what happens to the Microsoft section were they to acquire it | Jul 23 14:56 |
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| blackrabbit | too bad flickr isn't google run too | Jul 23 14:56 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft might just grab Y! market share for search and break apart the Big Y. | Jul 23 14:56 |
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| schestowitz | Zimbra too might be safe now. | Jul 23 14:57 |
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| blackrabbit | http://www.provos.org/index.php... ? | Jul 23 14:57 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, I was concerned about zimbra | Jul 23 14:58 |
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| blackrabbit | http://seclists.org/isn/200... | Jul 23 14:58 |
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| schestowitz | This one is interesting also: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-99... ( SF mayor gets codes to hijacked city network ). have they found a scapegoat yet? People shoot and knife other people, but here they jail a man for changing passwords. | Jul 23 14:59 |
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| blackrabbit | lol | Jul 23 14:59 |
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| *Tallken has quit ("gotta go") | Jul 23 15:00 |
| blackrabbit | http://apcmag.com/intel_to_pro... ???? | Jul 23 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | That DNS solver page is spyware | Jul 23 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | Had to enable JS to use and it has Google hawking. | Jul 23 15:01 |
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| blackrabbit | ? | Jul 23 15:01 |
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| blackrabbit | odd | Jul 23 15:01 |
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| blackrabbit | it was linked to from a crypto list | Jul 23 15:02 |
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| blackrabbit | apologies if it's bad, I didn't check it | Jul 23 15:02 |
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| blackrabbit | just google link back? | Jul 23 15:02 |
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| blackrabbit | referral spam? | Jul 23 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, Intel made some good news here, but it's a vile and disgusting company. If only more people knew... | Jul 23 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | My brother in law works for Intel. :-( | Jul 23 15:02 |
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| blackrabbit | indeed | Jul 23 15:02 |
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| blackrabbit | :( | Jul 23 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | That's from 'security' sites. | Jul 23 15:03 |
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| blackrabbit | Sadly, I know people working for MS | Jul 23 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | "Your DNS Resolver needs to be updated." | Jul 23 15:03 |
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| blackrabbit | or who have worked in good positions | Jul 23 15:03 |
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| blackrabbit | if good and MS can be used in the same sentence | Jul 23 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | Stupid MCC. Don't they care? | Jul 23 15:03 |
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| blackrabbit | heh | Jul 23 15:04 |
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| schestowitz | The peons in Intel and Microsoft can be naive or innocent, but they just 'Follow Orders'^TM | Jul 23 15:04 |
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| blackrabbit | of those I know, every one of them has a strange aversion to Linux | Jul 23 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | Yesterday MCC was scan-porting me. | Jul 23 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | I blacklisted them, but I still don't know why they probed... unless it was a zombie. | Jul 23 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | 8port-scanning | Jul 23 15:05 |
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| blackrabbit | I wonder if this Intel Linux issue is just for appearances | Jul 23 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Jul 23 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | They always do the Linus hug thingie, esp. after they killed OLPC (yes, they did). | Jul 23 15:06 |
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| blackrabbit | yup | Jul 23 15:06 |
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| schestowitz | BBC did this too. Ashley and Erik Huggers did the Linux-hugging thing on camera. | Jul 23 15:06 |
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| blackrabbit | I was surprised to see OLPC go MS friendly so quickly | Jul 23 15:06 |
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| blackrabbit | deep pockets deeeeep | Jul 23 15:07 |
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| blackrabbit | but we've discussed this before | Jul 23 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | Nick knew Gates before, but they took advantage of his weakness. | Jul 23 15:07 |
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| blackrabbit | with lxer articles | Jul 23 15:07 |
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| blackrabbit | it's an impossible uphill battle | Jul 23 15:07 |
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| blackrabbit | unless more citizens are informed | Jul 23 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | The education, you mean? | Jul 23 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | I am still trying to tell people the true story,. | Jul 23 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | meanwehile they rewrite history in the press. Intel and Microsoft, chiefly. | Jul 23 15:08 |
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| blackrabbit | most people are too busy consuming and contributing to the policies of the government they can't stand, and in their free time, rather than learning more about the issues and where their TAX MONEY goes, they start up a blog and complain, then go back to work and feed the system | Jul 23 15:08 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... | Jul 23 15:09 |
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| blackrabbit | but unlike you and groklaw, they only continue the chain of misinformation from their local media | Jul 23 15:09 |
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| schestowitz | Probably my last summary before I decided to turn a blind eye to and ignore the project. | Jul 23 15:09 |
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| blackrabbit | at least you tried | Jul 23 15:09 |
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| schestowitz | It drove PJ mad... well, not mad... just sad, I think. | Jul 23 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | The whole gates crusade against Linux adoption in education was all too obvious. | Jul 23 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | But the press? "Oh!! Lookie. The philantropist is donating to schools [*cough* which were just about to embrace Linux]" | Jul 23 15:11 |
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| blackrabbit | is it just me or has the slashdot reader base declined? | Jul 23 15:11 |
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| schestowitz | Oh yeah! | Jul 23 15:11 |
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| schestowitz | Slashdot effect is bad. | Jul 23 15:11 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, I was thrilled about olpc, I thought finally.. finally linux would inch in | Jul 23 15:11 |
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| blackrabbit | I notice a dramatic decline in user participation | Jul 23 15:11 |
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| schestowitz | I started my campaign against them a while ago.. They sold out IMHO. | Jul 23 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | PJ thinks so too. | Jul 23 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | The last time I made /. FP there was not much traffic. | Jul 23 15:12 |
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| blackrabbit | i've seen a lot of linux troll articles | Jul 23 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | Digg is still the Big Monster. | Jul 23 15:12 |
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| blackrabbit | yes but digg has too much non tech news for me | Jul 23 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | No, that's not Digg | Jul 23 15:12 |
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| blackrabbit | I don't like tech news mixed with a flickr photo or stupid college video post | Jul 23 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | That's the DEAD Digg. :-) | Jul 23 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | Digg uses to be a tech site. | Jul 23 15:13 |
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| schestowitz | It stopped, so I almost left. | Jul 23 15:13 |
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| schestowitz | See... | Jul 23 15:13 |
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| blackrabbit | yes | Jul 23 15:13 |
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| blackrabbit | in its conception and infancy digg was quality | Jul 23 15:13 |
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| blackrabbit | there's an ubuntu digg like spin off but its pathetic imo | Jul 23 15:13 |
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| blackrabbit | then there's smokedot.org :P | Jul 23 15:13 |
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| blackrabbit | but that's political and few and far between in articles | Jul 23 15:14 |
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| blackrabbit | kuro5hin.org went down the shitter a long time ago | Jul 23 15:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/We... | Jul 23 15:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/02/17... | Jul 23 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/arc... | Jul 23 15:15 |
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| blackrabbit | http://news.cnet.com/8... | Jul 23 15:15 |
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| blackrabbit | thanks for links, I'll check them later | Jul 23 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | I'm still on Digg. | Jul 23 15:16 |
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| schestowitz | I comment and vote a little, but mainly contribute pro-FOSS stories. It's for the good cause, not corpos | Jul 23 15:16 |
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| schestowitz | *corps | Jul 23 15:16 |
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| blackrabbit | don't you get like 20+ auto digg downs even if you just say hello? | Jul 23 15:17 |
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| schestowitz | I'm not afraid of Google yet. As a professor said a week ago (quoted in GL), "being a monopoly is not the same as being an evil monopoly"... or something about being big is not being evil. | Jul 23 15:18 |
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| schestowitz | No, -4. | Jul 23 15:18 |
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| schestowitz | Those 4 that mod me down have been slow to bury me recently. Maybe on vacation... | Jul 23 15:18 |
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| schestowitz | But they are heavily active in COLA. 3 of them... | Jul 23 15:18 |
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| blackrabbit | I don't see how google is a monopoly, yet | Jul 23 15:18 |
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| blackrabbit | there's no one and only lock in like with proprietary microsoft file formats and OS | Jul 23 15:19 |
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| blackrabbit | there's always alternatives to google | Jul 23 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | There are exceptions. | Jul 23 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | Some products have their base dependent on Google hooks and APIs. | Jul 23 15:19 |
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| blackrabbit | always a pleasure schestowitz, duty calls! | Jul 23 15:20 |
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| schestowitz | No problem. See you later. | Jul 23 15:20 |
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| *blackrabbit has quit ("Leaving") | Jul 23 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Nanny nation.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk... ( 'Spying' requests exceed 500,000 ) | Jul 23 15:24 |
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| kentma | I saw the inquirer article on this | Jul 23 16:24 |
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| schestowitz | BTW, Linux Today has just made your comment visible. Ta for that. | Jul 23 16:24 |
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| schestowitz | Glyn keeps attacking your favourite paper...http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.c... | Jul 23 16:25 |
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| kentma | I agree with him on that, it's a stupid statement to make, and they really should know better. | Jul 23 16:27 |
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| kentma | Just looked at my LT talkback. I was obviously feeling somewhat vitriolic... | Jul 23 16:27 |
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| schestowitz | It's part of a series of such complaints. That's why I raised this. | Jul 23 16:27 |
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| schestowitz | The talkback was good. I don't usually get attacked like this when they pick my posts. | Jul 23 16:28 |
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| kentma | I used to be a regular comentator at Linux Today, but left around the time of the George Tirebiter incident. | Jul 23 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | Brian stepped down 2 weeks ago. After 6 years, I think... | Jul 23 16:31 |
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| kentma | The problem was, afairc, Kevin Reichard and his aliases. He used to troll his own postings. I was consulted by a journalist about this myself at the time, but could only add that I was sure that Tirebiter was trolling, beyond that, no evidence... | Jul 23 16:35 |
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| kentma | Brian Proffitt stepped up to do the job instead, and I tried to be positive about it, but it had just soured my views too much, and walked away from LT at about that time. | Jul 23 16:36 |
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| kentma | Slashdot was too much like Usenet but with all the disadvantages of the web and usenet combined - I still loath the way the talkbacks work, although some articles are quite good. It always seemed like an attempt to moderate usenet to me. | Jul 23 16:36 |
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| schestowitz | Brian hated the MS ads. | Jul 23 16:37 |
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| schestowitz | He told me after he had left. | Jul 23 16:37 |
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| kentma | A lot of us did, but I guess the money needs to come from somewhere... | Jul 23 16:37 |
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| kentma | http://www.linuxjournal.com/a... | Jul 23 16:37 |
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| kentma | that's it. | Jul 23 16:37 |
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| schestowitz | I'd rather be deprived then sell out. | Jul 23 16:37 |
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| schestowitz | As for USENET, it's the UI (native) that makes it good. | Jul 23 16:38 |
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| kentma | http://www.linuxjournal.com/arti... - Doc Searl's interview with me is online there! | Jul 23 16:39 |
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| schestowitz | Paul Ferris contributes to LXer now, I think But only rarely... | Jul 23 16:40 |
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| schestowitz | Doc was in the hospital recently. | Jul 23 16:41 |
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| kentma | look down for "What are they using" and you'll see Doc's interview. | Jul 23 16:41 |
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| kentma | Was he - oh dear, what's wrong with him? | Jul 23 16:41 |
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| schestowitz | Nothing serious. Lemmie find it... | Jul 23 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxjournal.com/con... (with video) | Jul 23 16:42 |
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| kentma | ah, poor chap. | Jul 23 16:43 |
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| schestowitz | He's writing frequently now, so the doc probably sez Doc is OK. | Jul 23 16:44 |
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| kentma | Well, I've invited him for another beer on his talkbacks! | Jul 23 16:45 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. Where's he based anyway? | Jul 23 16:48 |
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| kentma | Doc? Over in the US. He comes to see us sometimes, though. | Jul 23 16:48 |
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| schestowitz | That's what I thought.. mid east or west coast I'm guessing. | Jul 23 16:50 |
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| kentma | I think he's west-coast, but I'm not 100% certain. | Jul 23 16:50 |
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| kentma | Lee Schlesinger is also someone I know, but I'm trying to recall where from. Maybe he was an OSDL guy? | Jul 23 16:54 |
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| schestowitz | CSI is almost unheard of now. Did you attend LF Summits (invite-only)? | Jul 23 16:56 |
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| schestowitz | Wow. "Microsoft, the biggest software maker, has lost about $90 billion in market value this year.."www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aqWZ_7PKAYi4&refer=news | Jul 23 18:24 |
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