| MinceR | i still can't follow you | Aug 22 00:00 |
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| schestowitz | Novell might violate the GPL too. | Aug 22 00:00 |
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| schestowitz | Unless I fall asleep on my desk ( ;-) ), I'll post about it shortly. | Aug 22 00:01 |
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| MinceR | in both cases, a customer could give the source code away to anyone | Aug 22 00:01 |
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| ReverseGTR | under GPL the developer can close one distribution while keeping a limited open sourcecode and still state that their software is open source | Aug 22 00:01 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, pretty sure yes..you cant accept patents it violates gpl doesn't it.. | Aug 22 00:01 |
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| MinceR | what do you mean by "limited open sourcecode"? | Aug 22 00:01 |
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| ReverseGTR | when their payed is a tar that packs more feature that the sourcecode lacks | Aug 22 00:02 |
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| MinceR | so that not even paying customers get the actual source? | Aug 22 00:02 |
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| ReverseGTR | when you recieve the tar it can contain extra binaries that don't have to be opened up under the GPL | Aug 22 00:05 |
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| ReverseGTR | MinceR: there are also issues with patenting some IPs while using the GPL. I am sure you know more about it so you can fill me in. | Aug 22 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | ReverseGTR: with Novell, it's something else. | Aug 22 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | They don't give up-to-date source code and you must pay to get it. Will post about it shortly. | Aug 22 00:10 |
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| ReverseGTR | schestowitz: the same scheme Google maybe doing with Android | Aug 22 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | We'll see if I can do a 7-post marathon despite it being past misnight. | Aug 22 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | Google is a blob maker. I dont' expect much from them. | Aug 22 00:11 |
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| MinceR | ReverseGTR: afaik you automatically grant patent licenses if you release code using your patents under the GPLv3 | Aug 22 00:12 |
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| MinceR | in the casae of BSDL, this doesn't happen. | Aug 22 00:12 |
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| MinceR | s/ae/e/ | Aug 22 00:13 |
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| neighborlee | yup afa gpl3 | Aug 22 00:15 |
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| schestowitz | I'm posting a burst of things at the moment. | Aug 22 01:09 |
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| schestowitz | The IRC channel (you guys) brought lots of great input to this, so thanks! | Aug 22 01:10 |
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| ReverseGTR | np :) | Aug 22 01:10 |
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| twitter | Cool. | Aug 22 02:25 |
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| schestowitz | I'm soooooooooooo tired. | Aug 22 02:25 |
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| schestowitz | One more post. Last one... | Aug 22 02:26 |
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| neighborlee | heh | Aug 22 02:41 |
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| schestowitz | Novell ha become like Microsoft. It throws money at projects/conferences that could scrutinize it. It shuts up the critics. | Aug 22 02:47 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, apparantly, not enough of them ;) | Aug 22 02:56 |
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| neighborlee | one person can change the world. | Aug 22 02:57 |
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| schestowitz | There are many critics. | Aug 22 02:58 |
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| schestowitz | Even the OSI on the face of it. | Aug 22 02:58 |
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| schestowitz | http://opensource.org/node/363 | Aug 22 02:59 |
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| neighborlee | yup read that earlier,,nice article | Aug 22 03:03 |
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| ReverseGTR | Red Hat is Windows of the future, all you base belong to M$ and Novell | Aug 22 03:06 |
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| ReverseGTR | watch as Red Hat support goes straight to Microsoft's sinkhole of misery. | Aug 22 03:07 |
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| schestowitz | What about Ellison? | Aug 22 03:08 |
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| ReverseGTR | lol, Oracle doesn't have much they can call their own anymore. Sun has a better chance | Aug 22 03:10 |
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| schestowitz | It's funny how you can measure resentment and anger towards Novell by seeing a traffic meter of BN.com. People apparently begin to wakey wakey. | Aug 22 03:11 |
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| neighborlee | nice ;) | Aug 22 03:11 |
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| ReverseGTR | Oracle has become they great mediator among the big software corporations, they shouldn't step out just to confront a little twat | Aug 22 03:12 |
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| schestowitz | He hates Gates. He won't let Novell+Microsoft get their way and he doesn't work with SUSE. | Aug 22 03:13 |
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| ReverseGTR | Oracle should just throw its support behind OpenSolaris | Aug 22 03:13 |
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| ReverseGTR | such an OS with influence would cut off any potential growth from Novell M$ combo | Aug 22 03:13 |
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| schestowitz | He wants to control his own platform though. Can't do that with CDDL. | Aug 22 03:15 |
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| ReverseGTR | if Oracle makes their own platform it would just complicate matters against M$, maybe that is what he secretly has interest in | Aug 22 03:16 |
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| schestowitz | Mark Shuttlewowrth thinks so (that Ellison et al would fork) | Aug 22 03:16 |
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| ReverseGTR | hopefully the shareholders get to their senses and put their stake in the company to use that is good for the company's welfare as well | Aug 22 03:18 |
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| ReverseGTR | but I doubt that would happen | Aug 22 03:20 |
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| schestowitz | Which company? | Aug 22 03:21 |
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| ReverseGTR | Oracle | Aug 22 03:22 |
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| ReverseGTR | not sure if the shareholders can influence M$ with Balmer at the helm as well as Bill Gates still with veto power | Aug 22 03:23 |
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| ReverseGTR | do you think the shareholders have much sway in M$? | Aug 22 03:30 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is privatizing its stock/assets now. Buybacks. Same with Novell. | Aug 22 03:31 |
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| ReverseGTR | then prepare for the onslaught | Aug 22 03:32 |
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| schestowitz | ??? | Aug 22 03:33 |
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| ReverseGTR | without shareholder influence they can spend tons on lawsuits without reprisals | Aug 22 03:33 |
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| schestowitz | Do you think it could be related to anything but getting the shares stablised? | Aug 22 03:33 |
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| schestowitz | But the motives seem different | Aug 22 03:33 |
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| ReverseGTR | maybe they are hitting two birds with one stone | Aug 22 03:34 |
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| schestowitz | That's a possibility. | Aug 22 03:34 |
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| schestowitz | SCOX wasn't buoyed for long | Aug 22 03:35 |
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| schestowitz | NOVL almost got delisted from NASDAQ | Aug 22 03:36 |
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| twitter | Here is something interesting from 2002. When Bruce Perens says M$ was plotting patent attacks, they worked to make the anti-trust settlement friendly to such an attack: http://www.kegel.com/remedy/remedy2... | Aug 22 03:46 |
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| twitter | :) found while researching something completely unrelated. I don't know if the final settlement had that and all of the other listed weaknesses. | Aug 22 03:47 |
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| schestowitz | Interesting. I don't know where to incorporate this. Anyway, it's 4AM. I've just posted links and I'm off to bed. Always a pleasure, twitter, will catch you in the morning. | Aug 22 03:49 |
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| ReverseGTR | iight im off | Aug 22 04:00 |
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| seller_liar | hey roy | Aug 22 04:04 |
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| seller_liar | before you go , is perceptible about mono "guard" | Aug 22 04:04 |
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| seller_liar | at the same time he attacks java | Aug 22 04:04 |
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| schestowitz | Avinar, I got the press release. | Aug 22 09:06 |
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| schestowitz | Mon infestation: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08... Funny comments: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/21/savil... | Aug 22 09:11 |
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| schestowitz | Interesting feedback I just got about Microsoft's trolls... | Aug 22 09:19 |
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| schestowitz | "Glad to see you keeping an eye on this bloke, but calling him a patent troll is like calling George Bush a right-wing politician.... Myhrvold is out to exploit the deranged system of intellectual monopolies to the hilt. " | Aug 22 09:19 |
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| schestowitz | He flies in leading scientist/engineers/technologists, puts them in a room, writes down everything they say and then patents every noun and verb. Worse, he is not your usual stupid, greedy troll: he's already worth hundreds of millions, and reasonably bright. I really don't know why he does this: it's like cutting down the Amazon for sheer malicious pleasure...." | Aug 22 09:19 |
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| schestowitz | I've cited some previous articles in the past. He hates Linux too... :-) people can find the video where he talks about with Charlie Rose. | Aug 22 09:20 |
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| anivar | schestowitz: | Aug 22 09:30 |
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| anivar | Digg it http://digg.com/tech_news/Bangaloreans_Sa... Vote for it: http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Ba... | Aug 22 09:31 |
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| schestowitz | Ta. | Aug 22 09:32 |
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| schestowitz | Linux.com is pushing Mono again: http://www.linux.com/feature/144663 | Aug 22 09:59 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the comments: "What's with all the Mono: Linux.com has sure been pushing the mono-poly patent trap hard lately. Maybe you should change your name. [....] Why bother with Mono?: Is there anything you can do with Mono that you can't do with Java? Of course Java is more mature, truly open, and unencumbered by patent threats." | Aug 22 10:00 |
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| schestowitz | I'm asking Matt Asay a question about Novell: "I have a question to ask you: did Novell contact you shortly after the press release had been issued? Maybe shortly beforehand." Let's see what he says. Novell /did/ contact some people in order to chnage the news. | Aug 22 10:52 |
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| PetoKraus | what news? | Aug 22 10:57 |
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| schestowitz | About Novell/Microsoft | Aug 22 10:59 |
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| schestowitz | The Novell PR people are just like Microsoft's. They are trying to 'cook' news coverage by "spamming" people (Aaron Seigo's word). | Aug 22 10:59 |
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| schestowitz | I supposed you haven't seen http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/21/... yet. It's like buying flowers before beating up the wife. Novell takes to the corner potential people who would complain and gives them a little 'talk' to keep them quiet. | Aug 22 11:03 |
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| pcole | I look at it as kind've "thought steering". | Aug 22 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | Blech. http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/08/21... "3. Pump Money Into “Designed for SUSE” Or Similar Branding: Novell’s old “Yes” logo program from the 1990s assured customers that specific hardware and software worked with Novell NetWare. Time for Novell to bring back similar branding and promote partners that offer SUSE-compatible products." | Aug 22 11:30 |
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| schestowitz | Linux.com: the Linux (or Mac-only) Web site.. http://www.linux.com/feed/145648 | Aug 22 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | Tux Machines is linking to Port 25, the operation that tries to steal FOSS (like MySQL) from GNU/Linux and take it to Windows. | Aug 22 12:13 |
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| schestowitz | benJIman: I see you're keeping busy defending Novell here: http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&... | Aug 22 12:21 |
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| anivar | hi schestowitz | Aug 22 12:28 |
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| benJIman | beranger in failing to actually read the GPL shock. | Aug 22 12:29 |
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| schestowitz | That's now the point I was making. | Aug 22 12:29 |
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| anivar | schestowitz: | Aug 22 12:32 |
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| PeterKraus | lol | Aug 22 12:34 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe he surfaces from beneath the water. :-S | Aug 22 12:35 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2008/082108... I wonder if Orcale could buy Sun... There was a speculation yesterday about Oracle for ZFS and OSolaris. The value of Oracle is about an order of magnitude higher than Sun. As for Java (or JAVA in Wall Street), Oracle recently started battling .NET. That said, Oracle is allergic to Free software, which Sun tried to love. | Aug 22 12:43 |
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| pcole | What is Port 25? | Aug 22 13:31 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft's 'Linux/OSS labs'. | Aug 22 13:31 |
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| pcole | I'm real newb. Is MS 'LNX/OSS labs' a dept. @ MS? | Aug 22 13:33 |
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| schestowitz | Sort of. Its aim is, ultimately, to steal all the software from Linux and bring it to Windows. | Aug 22 13:35 |
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| pcole | OK, got it. Thanks. Read previous BN posts about M$ leeching OSS. | Aug 22 13:37 |
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| trmanco | http://www.informationweek.com/blog... | Aug 22 14:15 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks, I was going to write about this later. | Aug 22 14:24 |
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| trmanco | cool, you're welcome :) | Aug 22 14:26 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz: Icaza was the guy who started the mono project right? | Aug 22 14:50 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, as far as I know, he is. | Aug 22 14:58 |
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| trmanco | ok thanks | Aug 22 14:59 |
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| schestowitz | It would be interesting to know at what stage he started making visits to Microsoft. it's not a frequent routine, so it's good to know when it started (post his interview there in 1998) | Aug 22 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: I've just used your pointer here: http://boycottnovell.com/2... | Aug 22 15:16 |
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| trmanco | nice | Aug 22 15:17 |
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| trmanco | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/21/mo... -> I'm using some information of this article to make up a similar post on my blog, I hope you don't mind | Aug 22 15:18 |
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| trmanco | btw, it's in Portuguese, you will get a trackback as soon as it gets published :P | Aug 22 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | Go ahead, please. Better yet, ensure that Ubuntu Forums regulars are aware of such 'moles'. | Aug 22 15:24 |
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| trmanco | ok thanks | Aug 22 15:25 |
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| schestowitz | Just got a reply from Asay. | Aug 22 15:26 |
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| schestowitz | I was right. | Aug 22 15:26 |
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| schestowitz | The b*stards at Novell gagged journalists before the announcement! | Aug 22 15:26 |
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| schestowitz | "Novell pinged me beforehand to let me know the posts had gone live, and then I contacted them to ask some questions about it. I'm not very happy that they went back to the well on this, but I *am* glad that Microsoft doesn't seem to be able to subvert Linux, even if Novell is playing a dangerous game.... " | Aug 22 15:27 |
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| schestowitz | Aaron Seigo said their PR people "spammed" him. | Aug 22 15:27 |
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| trmanco | WOW, Novell is starting to go to the very evil side | Aug 22 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | I'll post about it in a moment. | Aug 22 15:47 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/22/p... | Aug 22 15:54 |
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| twitter | Good morning. | Aug 22 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | Howdy | Aug 22 16:09 |
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| twitter | I'm trying to catch up on the prevent negative coverage article. | Aug 22 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | It's a short one. The proof is more private. I got it this morning as I inquired. Novell is predictable. It tried to buy perception. | Aug 22 16:19 |
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| twitter | Oh, I'm sorry you can't share. I was feeling a little dense for not being able to find the proof. Yesterday's manipulate-news-coverage looked like it to me. | Aug 22 16:22 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, that was just one person. But he's a top developer, not a journalist. | Aug 22 16:24 |
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| neighborlee | boy , its a firm trend on these moles its just funny as all heck isn't it ;) | Aug 22 16:24 |
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| twitter | The Novell buzz machine is working well if Dustin Puryear is any indication and it's those people that matter most in the SLOG. | Aug 22 16:24 |
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| neighborlee | the more they are pressed, the more they start to resort to cuss words | Aug 22 16:25 |
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| twitter | Developers, developers, developers. | Aug 22 16:25 |
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| PeterKraus | noooooooo | Aug 22 16:25 |
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| PeterKraus | i love this companyyyyyy | Aug 22 16:26 |
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| twitter | Too bad for them that Red Hat and Canonical sales have left Novell in the dust. | Aug 22 16:26 |
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| twitter | If all of their positive buzz were true, they would not need another $100 million injection from M$. | Aug 22 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | Aye. Luv. This. Company. Yeahhhh.... got the video? | Aug 22 16:27 |
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| PeterKraus | :D it's classic, mate | Aug 22 16:27 |
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| twitter | I wish I could forget it. | Aug 22 16:27 |
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| PeterKraus | it's something like a tubgirl | Aug 22 16:27 |
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| PeterKraus | everyone laughs at it afterwards | Aug 22 16:28 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: I think I saw another Dustin Port25 post earlier. I'm not sure. | Aug 22 16:28 |
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| schestowitz | It's all brainwash, pressure and free lunch (or dinner) | Aug 22 16:28 |
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| twitter | business contracts | Aug 22 16:29 |
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| twitter | M$ still has a few carrots and nothing makes loyalty like earning a living. | Aug 22 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, but that's "selling out". | Aug 22 16:29 |
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| twitter | It's only selling out when you understand what you are doing. | Aug 22 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | There's wine at dinner. | Aug 22 16:32 |
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| twitter | Wine is great, but I don't have many Windows programs to run. :-D | Aug 22 16:33 |
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| twitter | M$'s wining and dining should be an obvious warning of bad things, kind of like a casino advertisement. The money comes out of your hide sooner or later. | Aug 22 16:34 |
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| *schestowitz hate pointing a finger | Aug 22 16:35 |
| neighborlee | Are we sure rand-z does not exist ? | Aug 22 16:36 |
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| neighborlee | they guy keeps bringing it up | Aug 22 16:36 |
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| neighborlee | this | Aug 22 16:36 |
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| neighborlee | he says to write ecma about it ;0- | Aug 22 16:36 |
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| neighborlee | You can request that information from ECMA, or I'm sure the Mono and/or DotGNU developers could confirm it. | Aug 22 16:37 |
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| neighborlee | < direct quote | Aug 22 16:37 |
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| schestowitz | He's missing the point and escapes it. | Aug 22 16:39 |
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| schestowitz | See again the writeup I told you about: many about RAND and the lack of a promise not to sue. | Aug 22 16:40 |
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| neighborlee | yeah I know, just wanted to verify is all...he says it exists, yet doesn't have ability to offer direct links LOL | Aug 22 16:46 |
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| neighborlee | at that point I go , yeah sure dude ;) | Aug 22 16:46 |
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| neighborlee | he's so sure about this thing that makes mono 'clean', yet h as no direct link for it ? rofl | Aug 22 16:46 |
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| schestowitz | Is 'he' that same 'mole' that makes money out of Mono? | Aug 22 16:46 |
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| neighborlee | and likes to mix redhat with fedora, that clearly shows his moleness :)) | Aug 22 16:47 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, id be willing to bet on it | Aug 22 16:47 |
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| neighborlee | and we can see why mono has any traction at all, look at this quote from a user on ubuntu forum named pmasiar: | Aug 22 16:48 |
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| neighborlee | I am not ready to invest time to evaluate any of you: Neighborlee might be wrong or right, and you too. Way too much trouble, but summary is obvious: it is far from pristine clean. " | Aug 22 16:49 |
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| neighborlee | enough doubt spread, yet is so complex a issue most avoid looking into it,, | Aug 22 16:49 |
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| schestowitz | Mono developers will religiously defend it and cling on to anything. | Aug 22 16:50 |
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| neighborlee | im seeing that more and more yes | Aug 22 16:52 |
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| schestowitz | I think we should consider contacting Dell. | Aug 22 16:54 |
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| schestowitz | Not only is there payment for codecs in Ubuntu, but they also signed a deal with Microsoft (and Novell, i.e. in relation to GNU/Linux), which covers Mono and other mythical claims. | Aug 22 16:55 |
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| neighborlee | indeed | Aug 22 17:03 |
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| neighborlee | he is starting to make mistakes though and im going to remind him of it ,,see here LOL::: Originally RedHat did not include Mono until their lawyers had time to evaluate it. | Aug 22 17:06 |
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| neighborlee | They do now include Mono (starting with Fedora 8 I believe?). | Aug 22 17:06 |
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| neighborlee | He is trying to muddy distinction between redhat , and fedora...how lame is that :) | Aug 22 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | Let me find something for you... | Aug 22 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... | Aug 22 17:09 |
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| neighborlee | He really set himself up on that post,,I just replied, I hope I did us justice ;0-: http://ubuntuforums.org/showt... | Aug 22 17:16 |
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| neighborlee | checking | Aug 22 17:16 |
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| *schestowitz looks | Aug 22 17:17 |
| neighborlee | also , I have checked OIN, and I see nothing there about mono protection, or .net yadda | Aug 22 17:18 |
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| schestowitz | Oh! It's alternatealias, the man who makes $$ with Mono. | Aug 22 17:18 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, last post on that page btw. | Aug 22 17:18 |
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| neighborlee | ahhhh, I figufred | Aug 22 17:18 |
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| neighborlee | figured | Aug 22 17:18 |
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| neighborlee | he sure seems to get all uipset sometimes LOL | Aug 22 17:18 |
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| schestowitz | OIN and Mono? Nothing that I know of and I've followed it for ages. | Aug 22 17:18 |
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| neighborlee | and I called him onit. | Aug 22 17:19 |
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| neighborlee | on it | Aug 22 17:19 |
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| neighborlee | I see nothing either..kewl! | Aug 22 17:19 |
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| neighborlee | and I noted that in my reply. | Aug 22 17:19 |
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| schestowitz | He doesn't seem to understand what OIN is and how it works. Ask him about it. Make a challenge. | Aug 22 17:19 |
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| neighborlee | I did basically.I told him, no mono is NOT on the list of protectiions ;) | Aug 22 17:20 |
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| neighborlee | also your page sorta misses the mark on something...redhat is not endorsing mono, only fedora , that point needs to be crystal clear schestowitz | Aug 22 17:21 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz: where can I see that quote that bill gates once said that he doesn't need the internet for nothing | Aug 22 17:22 |
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| trmanco | or that the internet is dead | Aug 22 17:22 |
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| neighborlee | This hopefully sums up Red Hat’s (or Fedora in practice) decision to adopt Mono. < here | Aug 22 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | It's nothing to do with Mono. An IBMer ran OIN so that if one day Microsoft says "Ubuntu, you in fringe on our .NET patents", then Canonical can pull some IBM patents on bubble sort or something ( ;-) ) and say "Hey, Microsoft, we suspect that your binary blobs have bubble sort in them." | Aug 22 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | Bill Gates, 1993: "The Internet? We are not interested in it." | Aug 22 17:23 |
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| neighborlee | woah,,,unbelieveable LOL | Aug 22 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | Botmaster Bill Gates: "Like almost everyone who uses e-mail, I receive a ton of spam every day. Much of it offers to help me get out of debt or get rich quick. It would be funny if it weren't so irritating." | Aug 22 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | The same man who brought 320,000,000 zombies PCs to the Internet with a back-doors-filled O/S | Aug 22 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | About 120,000,000,000 SPAM per day is sent from Windows zombies. | Aug 22 17:24 |
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| neighborlee | lol | Aug 22 17:27 |
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| neighborlee | eek ;) | Aug 22 17:27 |
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| neighborlee | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/02... < interesting, that no one has tried to refute this :)) | Aug 22 17:29 |
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| neighborlee | you need to update that one though showing fedora doesn't have mono, at least in livecd | Aug 22 17:30 |
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| neighborlee | as if you arent busy enough sorry ;) | Aug 22 17:30 |
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| schestowitz | There might be forward links at the bottom. | Aug 22 17:31 |
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| schestowitz | Updates never end, that's what Wikis are for. Many pages in my site are 5 years old. | Aug 22 17:32 |
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| neighborlee | oh, so I can update this | Aug 22 17:32 |
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| neighborlee | Ill make sure to n ot, its only as relates to liveCD , as I have no idea about the others... | Aug 22 17:33 |
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| schestowitz | You can pass multiple URLs to tell the full story. | Aug 22 17:35 |
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| neighborlee | ok | Aug 22 17:36 |
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| trmanco | found it | Aug 22 17:38 |
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| trmanco | “The Internet? We are not interested in it.” | Aug 22 17:38 |
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| trmanco | –Bill Gates, 1993 | Aug 22 17:38 |
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| schestowitz | "Microsoft? We are not interested in it.” | Aug 22 17:39 |
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| schestowitz | –The Internet, 2008 | Aug 22 17:39 |
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| trmanco | lol | Aug 22 17:39 |
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| trmanco | thats a good quote | Aug 22 17:39 |
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| trmanco | this last one, that I am assuming that you made up :P | Aug 22 17:40 |
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| schestowitz | Yeah, but it's more like 1994. The Internet never wanted or needed Microsoft. It would have evolved faster without it. Watch how Microsoft stifles IPv6 now... | Aug 22 17:41 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... | Aug 22 17:41 |
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| trmanco | yes I alerted some of my friend about that | Aug 22 17:44 |
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| trmanco | Microsoft won't throw itself from the Internet, time for the Internet to throw Microsoft out | Aug 22 17:44 |
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| trmanco | implement IPv6 as soon as possible and it will make Microsoft suffer | Aug 22 17:45 |
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| schestowitz | I like this headline: http://blog.wired.com/business/... : "Seinfeld to Shill for Microsoft. " | Aug 22 17:45 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: people do try to do this. | Aug 22 17:46 |
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| trmanco | How? I don't see them trying hard enough then :| | Aug 22 17:46 |
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| schestowitz | There's resistance from Microsoft. That's just the point. | Aug 22 17:48 |
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| trmanco | ok, Microsoft never was a company of innovation and it's not going to start being that way at this stage of the game, just my 2 cents | Aug 22 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | I'm going through MSFT news at the moment. I'll spew out some findings here as I go along. :-) | Aug 22 17:50 |
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| trmanco | good :) | Aug 22 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | Monopolists never innovate. They don't need to. It's too expensive. Sitting on one's ass is cheaper. | Aug 22 17:51 |
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| *PeterKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Aug 22 17:51 |
| trmanco | :| | Aug 22 17:51 |
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| trmanco | now I need that famous quote of Icaza aboutMono and .NET and I lost it :| | Aug 22 17:52 |
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| trmanco | better go look for it at BN :) | Aug 22 17:52 |
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| schestowitz | Why is he modded down so badly? It's true: http://blogs.computerworld.com/at_m... | Aug 22 17:53 |
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| schestowitz | Miguel loves ActiveX. | Aug 22 17:53 |
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| trmanco | I wonder how much MS bribed Icaza for this | Aug 22 17:54 |
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| neighborlee | I wonder sometimes myself | Aug 22 17:54 |
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| neighborlee | ha | Aug 22 17:54 |
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| schestowitz | http://primates.ximian.com/~migu... | Aug 22 17:56 |
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| schestowitz | "At Microsoft I learned the truth about ActiveX and COM and I got very interested in it inmediately. Upon my return to Mexico Federico and I started to design a GUI control infrastructure for Unix that we code named `GNOME’. [1]”" | Aug 22 17:56 |
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| trmanco | this quote just popped out from my search at BN At Microsoft I learned the truth about ActiveX and COM and I got very interested in it immediately. | Aug 22 17:56 |
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| trmanco | lol | Aug 22 17:56 |
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| schestowitz | The guy who was here for months (in the IRC channel), tessier, got threatened by Microsoft when he posted blog items warning about the dangers of ActiveX. | Aug 22 17:57 |
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| schestowitz | not "immediately", "inmediately". | Aug 22 17:58 |
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| trmanco | wow | Aug 22 17:58 |
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| *odla (n=chatzill@w200553865.cehd.umn.edu) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 22 17:58 |
| odla | what a joke you are roy ... ha ha ha | Aug 22 17:59 |
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| *odla (n=chatzill@w200553865.cehd.umn.edu) has left #boycottnovell | Aug 22 17:59 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Aug 22 17:59 |
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| *PeterKraus (n=Peter@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 22 18:00 |
| schestowitz | For future reference, here is a a demonstration of Intel/Microsoft as close allies: http://blogs.zdnet.com/micros... ( Intel backs Microsoft’s concurrent-computing play ) | Aug 22 18:04 |
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| trmanco | - Word count: 784 | Aug 22 18:05 |
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| trmanco | I think I never wrote a blog post this big | Aug 22 18:05 |
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| schestowitz | GNU/Linux is miles ahead and Intel would be better off using a modern system for this. Microsoft needs to bribe/dump for people to choose Windows for advanced computing, which technical people master, understand and make decisions on. | Aug 22 18:05 |
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| schestowitz | Got URL, trmanco? | Aug 22 18:05 |
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| trmanco | I still didn't publish it yet | Aug 22 18:05 |
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| trmanco | almost done | Aug 22 18:06 |
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| schestowitz | Ah, that's what I thought: draft | Aug 22 18:06 |
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| neighborlee | Meanwhile, I see that you ran to the BoycottNovell IRC channel and got Roy's help to publicly attack me on his website. | Aug 22 18:06 |
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| neighborlee | Real mature < I wonder where this idea came from :)) | Aug 22 18:06 |
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| neighborlee | is the mole in our presence ? ROFL | Aug 22 18:06 |
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| trmanco | yes | Aug 22 18:06 |
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| schestowitz | This is a good old one, but it just turned up in RSS: http://blogs.computerworld.com/ma... | Aug 22 18:07 |
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| neighborlee | as if I care either way...my replies are just as valid whether im here, or whether I am not :) | Aug 22 18:07 |
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| schestowitz | We have some moles here too, neighborlee. | Aug 22 18:07 |
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| neighborlee | ad-hominen attacks have zero affect on what I do ;) | Aug 22 18:08 |
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| neighborlee | I stunned they dont get that ;) | Aug 22 18:08 |
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| schestowitz | No offence, benJIman, but yes, neighborlee, some OpenSUSE people drive by to kee an eye on things. | Aug 22 18:08 |
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| schestowitz | But benJIman is polite, so he's welcome. | Aug 22 18:08 |
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| neighborlee | they must think I am some weak , feable person..man they dont get me ;) | Aug 22 18:08 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, yup I know,, | Aug 22 18:08 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft sure is evolving for the future... just evolving in the wrong direction.... devolving... http://blogs.pcworld.com/staf... ... that's progress? | Aug 22 18:09 |
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| schestowitz | Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO: "Fucking Eric Schmidt is a fucking pussy. I’m going to fucking bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I’m going to fucking kill Google." | Aug 22 18:10 |
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| schestowitz | It's from Wikipedia, so the quote is probably exaggerated. | Aug 22 18:11 |
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| trmanco | kill google | Aug 22 18:12 |
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| trmanco | *laughed* | Aug 22 18:12 |
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| schestowitz | kill -9 | Aug 22 18:12 |
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| trmanco | killall microsoft novell mono mono-common | Aug 22 18:13 |
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| trmanco | :) | Aug 22 18:13 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?... | Aug 22 18:13 |
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| neighborlee | I had evidence in my Inbox a few years ago, but company policy is to delete mail older than a few months. < rofl | Aug 22 18:15 |
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| trmanco | nice geeky music | Aug 22 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: where from? | Aug 22 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft does that too in order to hide evidence after being busted. | Aug 22 18:15 |
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| neighborlee | his latest diatribe to me on forum | Aug 22 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* | Aug 22 18:15 |
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| neighborlee | :)( | Aug 22 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe the 'mole' works for Microsoft | Aug 22 18:16 |
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| neighborlee | ROFL | Aug 22 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | Wait wait.. | Aug 22 18:16 |
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| neighborlee | Im acused now , of spreading fear, uncerrtainly and doubt ;)( | Aug 22 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | I was joking, but dare him to say where he works. Maybe WA. | Aug 22 18:16 |
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| neighborlee | yeah baby yeah, we are getting to them!!! | Aug 22 18:16 |
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| neighborlee | as in hunting , you flush out the birds with a good hound ,ha-ha | Aug 22 18:17 |
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| schestowitz | Does his description say where he works? | Aug 22 18:18 |
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| neighborlee | mind you, I am not a hunter, but I did go with my father and g-father once, or twice,,but hey that was as a child pff | Aug 22 18:18 |
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| neighborlee | dont think so | Aug 22 18:18 |
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| schestowitz | He says he does Mono on GNU/Linux, but there's Port25. | Aug 22 18:18 |
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| schestowitz | He's not there of course, but he has friends at Novell I imagine... | Aug 22 18:18 |
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| neighborlee | that he uses mono , is of very little surprise :) | Aug 22 18:18 |
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| schestowitz | He says he reads Mono mailing lists and that's based at Novell. | Aug 22 18:18 |
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| neighborlee | beyond that, I dont seem him offering that at this juncture ;) | Aug 22 18:18 |
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| schestowitz | He doesn't *USE* it, he *DEVELOPS* with it. | Aug 22 18:19 |
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| neighborlee | yup I meant that | Aug 22 18:19 |
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| schestowitz | *HUGE* different. Ubuntu Forums is for users, Trac/Bugzilla/Launchpad is for developers. | Aug 22 18:19 |
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| schestowitz | *difference | Aug 22 18:19 |
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| neighborlee | well of course they all fly by to offer their opinions | Aug 22 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | Let me find his details. | Aug 22 18:24 |
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| neighborlee | You cannot prove that Mono is risk-free, just like you can't prove that Java or OpenOffice or Pidgin or Ubuntu or Linux are risk-free. < LOL | Aug 22 18:25 |
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| neighborlee | sun isnt the convicted monopolist here, M$ retains that distinctive trait ;) | Aug 22 18:25 |
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| schestowitz | http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost... | Aug 22 18:25 |
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| neighborlee | out-of-touch :) | Aug 22 18:25 |
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| neighborlee | checking | Aug 22 18:25 |
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| schestowitz | Haha. Sun. For them to sue Linux users? What for? Are they insane? | Aug 22 18:25 |
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| neighborlee | LOL | Aug 22 18:26 |
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| neighborlee | ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh | Aug 22 18:26 |
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| neighborlee | OMG, no wonder he's so livid, that us poor smucks are attacking his very existence ;0-0 | Aug 22 18:26 |
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| neighborlee | his choice, not ours. | Aug 22 18:26 |
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| neighborlee | of course, I suspected this right from the begijning | Aug 22 18:26 |
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| neighborlee | beginning | Aug 22 18:26 |
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| schestowitz | I wonder if it's a Novell employee in Ubuntu Forums. | Aug 22 18:26 |
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| neighborlee | why else would he attack me so rofl | Aug 22 18:26 |
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| schestowitz | Not likely, but hey... does he use Ubuntu? | Aug 22 18:27 |
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| neighborlee | no clue | Aug 22 18:27 |
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| neighborlee | I doubt it | Aug 22 18:27 |
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| schestowitz | Could you find out? He hardly posts there. | Aug 22 18:27 |
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| neighborlee | he's posted only 9 times | Aug 22 18:27 |
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| neighborlee | I've posted 409 times | Aug 22 18:27 |
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| schestowitz | Ask him what distro/s he uses. | Aug 22 18:27 |
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| neighborlee | ok | Aug 22 18:27 |
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| neighborlee | does this make me a pawn ? | Aug 22 18:27 |
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| *neighborlee L'sOL | Aug 22 18:28 |
| schestowitz | He's also arguing with saul goode, I seee.... | Aug 22 18:28 |
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| schestowitz | Saul posts in BN sometimes. He too should have a clue. | Aug 22 18:28 |
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| neighborlee | yup | Aug 22 18:28 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: no, we're both 'pawns'. I'm checking also. | Aug 22 18:29 |
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| neighborlee | one of my posts, where I said 'why reinvent when you can share' , was from saul's post,,im soooooo wicked :)hahahah | Aug 22 18:29 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, lol | Aug 22 18:29 |
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| schestowitz | This is fascinating: http://www.google.com/search?so... | Aug 22 18:29 |
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| schestowitz | His nickname does not exist anywhere but Ubuntu forum. | Aug 22 18:30 |
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| neighborlee | of course | Aug 22 18:30 |
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| schestowitz | And think about it: "alternate alias" | Aug 22 18:30 |
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| neighborlee | its one of his alias ;))rofl | Aug 22 18:30 |
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| schestowitz | Sounds like "anonymous coward" | Aug 22 18:30 |
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| neighborlee | add to that list, potty mouth | Aug 22 18:31 |
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| *neighborlee looks for soap | Aug 22 18:31 |
| schestowitz | On the public Web, the term "alternatealias" only exists in Ubuntu Forums where he posts. | Aug 22 18:31 |
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| neighborlee | no surprised. | Aug 22 18:31 |
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| neighborlee | I could tell what was up, seeing his nick and # of posts on forum. | Aug 22 18:32 |
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| schestowitz | Let's say that the hypothesis is that we have a Novell/Microsoft mole here, maybe a Novell employee. | Aug 22 18:32 |
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| neighborlee | easily | Aug 22 18:32 |
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| schestowitz | How can we prove it? Asking what distro he uses might not be enough as solid proof. | Aug 22 18:32 |
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| neighborlee | It would prove squat :) | Aug 22 18:32 |
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| neighborlee | might give us a few jollies, beyond that pfft | Aug 22 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | This thread is advertising for Mono: http://ubuntuforums.org/show... | Aug 22 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the mockery of Java.. sort of. | Aug 22 18:33 |
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| neighborlee | but him comparing java to mono is the true joke | Aug 22 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | He doesn't say /WHAT/ project he writes... why not? People love bragging about their 'baby'. | Aug 22 18:34 |
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| schestowitz | Ask him what application he writes (ask for a URL) and what distro, please. | Aug 22 18:34 |
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| neighborlee | ill never forget the 'linux is a canncer' statement..and them being a convicted monopolist is enough for most | Aug 22 18:34 |
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| schestowitz | If it's a Novell employee, then it's something to crow about. Novell sponsors some Mono projects and has employees working on them. If he says what he builds with Mono, then we have clues. | Aug 22 18:35 |
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| neighborlee | I ll just ask what seemes logical in context of his replies..to do else might spur on more insidious remarks that neither of us prob. want to filter LOL! | Aug 22 18:35 |
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| neighborlee | although Id love that on some level ha-ha-ha | Aug 22 18:36 |
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| neighborlee | You hear that mole!! | Aug 22 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | The broad issue and what can't be proven yet is that Novell /might/ be promoting Mono in Ubuntu Forums... *and* all in disguise. | Aug 22 18:38 |
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| *trmanco has published 800+ word article on his blog | Aug 22 18:38 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, sure, that would be in their best interest. | Aug 22 18:39 |
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| schestowitz | I've just sent this to a friend who warned me about moles in Ubuntu like 8 months ago. | Aug 22 18:40 |
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| neighborlee | I knew this was going to backfire on him, look at this:: | Aug 22 18:41 |
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| neighborlee | from pmasiar: | Aug 22 18:41 |
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| neighborlee | For some people risk makes sense, for some not. Ask your lawyer if it makes sense for you, don't get advice from internet. Flamewars are fun but you hardly are going to change people's mind by flaming them. | Aug 22 18:41 |
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| neighborlee | he has posted almost 5000 times | Aug 22 18:42 |
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| neighborlee | slightly more credible ;) | Aug 22 18:42 |
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| neighborlee | he was replying not to me, but alternatealias. | Aug 22 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | Try to find out who he is. | Aug 22 18:43 |
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| schestowitz | To get his IP, you could trick him into a URL and harvest, not that it's something I ever did before. It's a trick for catching shills and I know others who did this before. | Aug 22 18:44 |
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| neighborlee | I also provided a link the other day in this thread pointing to the fact that Linden Labs is rolling out their servers to use Mono starting this week. < what oh earth this is all about, I ve no clue: who cares ???? | Aug 22 18:45 |
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| neighborlee | ^^ reply by alternatealias just a moment ago | Aug 22 18:46 |
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| neighborlee | talk about desperate | Aug 22 18:46 |
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| schestowitz | About Mono in SL, see: http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-ope... | Aug 22 18:47 |
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| neighborlee | sl ? | Aug 22 18:47 |
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| neighborlee | nvm, checking | Aug 22 18:47 |
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| schestowitz | Last comment: So the question is, what does mono bring to the table that java doesn’t? | Aug 22 18:47 |
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| schestowitz | SL=second life | Aug 22 18:47 |
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| neighborlee | yuo | Aug 22 18:48 |
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| neighborlee | p | Aug 22 18:48 |
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| neighborlee | answer is , nothing faik,,not being a PRO programmer, someone else would have to answer I gues. | Aug 22 18:49 |
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| neighborlee | s | Aug 22 18:49 |
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| schestowitz | Just spotted: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/... "Children taking part in the community service project at Interlaken will be rewarded by Slalom Consulting for their time with a laptop computer pre-loaded with Microsoft software." | Aug 22 18:50 |
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| schestowitz | URL, neighborlee? | Aug 22 18:50 |
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| neighborlee | that comment is just from me directly. | Aug 22 18:51 |
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| neighborlee | lol | Aug 22 18:51 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/action/artic... | Aug 22 18:57 |
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| neighborlee | oh sorry | Aug 22 19:05 |
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| neighborlee | TOO many chanels open | Aug 22 19:05 |
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| neighborlee | that post was from alternatealias:: I'll tell you what, I'll fire off an email to Tom "Spot" Calloway from Red Hat Legal and get his opinion on the matter. | Aug 22 19:06 |
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| neighborlee | im like..tom ??..he was the one that was so against mono from the very beginning.. | Aug 22 19:06 |
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| neighborlee | then we find out ( yes , some of us check things out heh ) that redhat actually had no patent grant for it at all ever, that mono wa s railroaded in. | Aug 22 19:06 |
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| neighborlee | they are fooling only themselves, if they think so many are believing this nonsense :) | Aug 22 19:07 |
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| neighborlee | besides,,redhat has NO stake in mono/M$ crud,,they are invested in jboss | Aug 22 19:08 |
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| neighborlee | lol | Aug 22 19:08 |
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| neighborlee | I forget where I read that, but I know it came direct from redhat... | Aug 22 19:08 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmm.. | Aug 22 19:08 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, maybe you remember | Aug 22 19:08 |
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| schestowitz | ...": I'll tell you what, I'll fire off an email to Tom "Spot" Calloway from Red Hat Legal and get his opinion on the matter."... | Aug 22 19:09 |
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| schestowitz | What sort of 'connections' does he have and -- more importantly -- why? | Aug 22 19:10 |
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| neighborlee | im betting zero. | Aug 22 19:10 |
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| neighborlee | its just filler | Aug 22 19:10 |
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| neighborlee | remember, he is the one that resorted to attacks of personal nature, not I. ;) | Aug 22 19:11 |
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| neighborlee | they always do it seems, when they dont get their way. | Aug 22 19:11 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, me too. | Aug 22 19:11 |
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| neighborlee | thats a pure nono in legit debates, | Aug 22 19:11 |
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| schestowitz | They attacked me personally. | Aug 22 19:11 |
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| neighborlee | of course | Aug 22 19:11 |
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