Bonum Certa Men Certa

Antitrust: How Microsoft Schemed to Derail Dell GNU/Linux

Dell monitor logo



IT'S NOT UNCOMMON to state the obvious, but concrete proof can make all the difference in the world, especially in court. As we've already shown, Microsoft's strategy has less to do with self improvement & development but more to do with targeted sabotage against attempts of competitors to... well, just to compete. Much like a totalitarian regime, Microsoft spots areas of friction and addresses them before they become uncontrollable; If not by force, then by brainwash [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] (control the minds to avoid direct and out-of-hand confrontations).



“Much like a totalitarian regime, Microsoft spots areas of friction and addresses them before they become uncontrollable...”Last week we gave evidence of this strategy occurring at Wal-Mart and this week we share antitrust material which shows how Microsoft reacted to GNU/Linux at Dell .

Exhibit px09280 (2002) [PDF] from Comes vs Microsoft contains correspondence between Microsoft seniors Bill Veghte and Paul Flessner (the guy who said "we should whack [Dell over GNU/Linux dealings], we should make sure they understand our value").

They swap opinions and plans with Windows executives like Brian Valentine and Jim Allchin [1, 2, 3] in the background, in addition to anti-Linux characters like Orlando Ayala [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6], even some of today's chiefs like Craig Mundie and Bob Muglia.

The subject of the messages is "Goldman Sachs Linux Panel." The Goldman Sachs Group is close to Microsoft and also a shareholder, it is backer of PSI and EDGI taker too. Here are some bits of interest. The text, in full, is appended below.

Bill Veghte writes:

It's not $50 of margin for Dell. It will get passed directly back to the customer and they are stuck with the same margin they have today. That is what happened on the desktop any time we made pricing changes broadly with OEMs and that is what will happen on the server (it is already happening on Linux pricing). It is just a fact.


Bill Veghte also writes:

Let's start by articulating Dell's perspective relative to the comments Russ made... Linux is Unix on x86. Dell sees it as the cheapest way to convert Unix LOB servers to being Dell customers. Dell sees no partnership with us on databases and partnership with Oracle as a way of pushing further into the enterprise. Oracle sees partnership with Dell and Linux as a great way at going after us at the lower end of the database market. Dell sees Linux as great negotiating leverage in their relationship with us.

[...]

Now, lets interject what I am asking into the picture.... We invest big, big $$ in Dell. We will continue to invest big, big $$ in Dell. I am asking that we do this investment with our eyes wide open. I do not want to invest $$ in Dell to fund their Red Hat efforts. I am asking that: a) we be quite prescriptive in our investments with Dell relative to the competitive threats we see with Linux b) we constantly benchmark ourselves against the actions they do with RedHat


Paul Flessner writes:

Now -- there is nothing to disagree with me on around what we should do. We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value, we should do all of the things you and Brian suggest. I totally agree.

In the end, if I were them, I would do all I could to see Linux succeed because it would put $50/pc(or whatever our OEM license costs) back into my pocket. Sure Windows has greater value and lower TCO and all of that. I would keep my relationship with MS and customers and do the dance. But every chance I get I would invest in Linux and try to make more sales on Linux because I increase my margin by $50/pc. It is an advantage for Linux.


Bill Veghte replies:

Dell's behavior is predicated on us not acting in response to their actions. I want them to understand that every day they lead with Linux over Windows in Unix migrations they turn our field against them (take the southeast region mail thread as an example). I want them to think very very carefully about when and which forums they decide to push Linux very, very hard. Today, they do not. When they do, you can bet, behavior will evolve.


Veghte also expresses this concern:

He said their basic strategy is around open standard systems of which there are two; Linux and Windows. He said Windows three times during the whole discussion (it was a Linux panel tho) and then proceeded to push Linux very hard, never mentioning Windows. Ironically, the guy on the panel that was most balanced in their comments was the CTO of the BEA.


He wrote in the briefing:

Russ Holt (Server VP) was there representing Dell. He was introduced as the man behind Dell's Linux strategy and the guy driving the Linux initiative at Dell. He started off by saying, Dell is the #1 OEM distributor of Linux and they are committed to seeing that position grow. He said that he believed Linux was ready for the enterprise and as way of evidence said Dell was a significant customer of RedHat and runs it on key mission critical environments; specifically their order entry system. He said he was seeing growth not only in the "traditional" areas of web & f/p but also web, Unix LOB and HPC. He then talked about how good the Oracle/Linux solution was and the strong partnership they had with Oracle around Linux. Later when he was asked about the open source development model he said he saw significant advantages to it because it enabled much closer interactions and synergy with RedHat.

[...]

Every other panelist underscored (a) that Linux was ready for prime-time in the enterprise, and (b) they were committing significant resources and product to make it even more so.


To summarise, Dell supported GNU/Linux, several companies praised the platform, and Microsoft pumped money into Dell, potentially in attempt to pressure it out of GNU/Linux.




Appendix: Comes vs. Microsoft - exhibit px09280, as text








From:       Bill Veghte

Sent:       Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:59 AM

To:           Paul Flessner

Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel


It's not $50 of margin for Dell.  It will get passed directly back to the customer and they are stuck with the same margin they have today.  That is what happened on the desktop any time we made pricing changes broadly with OEMs and that is what will happen on the server (it is already happening on Linux pricing).  It is just a fact.



---- Original Message ----
From:     Paul Flessner
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:02AM
To:    Bill Veghte
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I would go for the $50 pts of margin.  You need to think more broadly.  All you say is true but my statement is true as well. It is just fact.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 8:08AM
To: Paul Flessner; Bob Kelly
Cc: Brian Valentine; Jim Allchin; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie; Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Sigh....Yes, I can disagree with your statement that Dell's behavior won't change.  If it won't change, then we should just throw in the towel and settle for %50 market share at best.  We will change Dell's behavior by thinking thru their motivations and opportunities and being very creative.

Let's start by articulating Dell's perspective relative to the comments Russ made...  Linux is Unix on x86.  Dell sees it as the cheapest way to convert Unix LOB servers to being Dell customers.  Dell sees no partnership with us on databases and partnership with Oracle as a way of pushing further into the enterprise.  Oracle sees partnership with Dell and Linux as a great way at going after us at the lower end of the database market.  Dell sees Linux as great negotiating leverage in their relationship with us.

All of these things are reality.  Given these realities, lets add our perspective to the picture.  If I am Michael Dell, I have to believe that my #1 competitor long term is IBM.  Dell has to decide what their competitive strategy is going to be against IBM.  If they are going to compete with IBM and it services driven organization, they are a) going to have to build a strong relationship with our field and service partners, b) they are going to have to bet on our engineering engine as their primary innovation machine.  That means a close partnership with us.  They need to understand that with the passage of time Linux and IBM become more and more equivalent.

Now, lets interject what I am asking into the picture.... We invest big, big $$ in Dell.  We will continue to invest big, big $$ in Dell.  I am asking that we do this investment with our eyes wide open.  I do not want to invest $$ in Dell to fund their Red Hat efforts.  I am asking that:
a)  we be quite prescriptive in our investments with Dell relative to the competitive threats we see with Linux
b)  we constantly benchmark ourselves against the actions they do with RedHat


4/6/2005

Plaintiff's Exhibit
9280
Comes V Microsoft

MS-CC-RN 000000982974
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




This is an engineering statement, this is a marketing statement, this is a field statement.

---- Original Message ----
From: Paul Flessner
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:13AM
To: Bill Veghte; Bob Kelly
Cc: Brian Valentine; Jim Allchin; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie; Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

You can't disagree with my statement.  It is fact.  It is capitalism, like gravity.

Now -- there is nothing to disagree with me on around what we should do.  We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value, we should do all of the things you and Brian suggest.  I totally agree.

In the end, if I were them, I would do all I could to see Linux succeed because it would put $50/pc(or whatever our OEM license costs) back into my pocket.  Sure Windows has greater value and lower TCO and all of that.  I would keep my relationship with MS and customers and do the dance.  But every chance I get I would invest in Linux and try to make more sales on Linux because I increase my margin by $50/pc.  It is an advantage for Linux.

Where are our advantages?  This is a productive discussion.

This is just life.  I am not giving up.  I don't have a Penguin in my basement.  I LOVE Windows which is why I want us to face this so we can figure it out.

The sooner we recognize it the sooner we can get our heads around it and decide how to go after it.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:44 PM
To: Paul Flessner; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Boy do I respectfully disagree with the statement "Dell's behavior is predictable and won't change...

Dell's behavior is predicated on us not acting in response to their actions.  I want them to understand that every day they lead with Linux over Windows in Unix migrations they turn our field against them (take the southeast region mail thread as an example).  I want them to think very very carefully about when and which forums they decide to push Linux very, very hard.  Today, they do not.  When they do, you can bet, behavior will evolve.

I think there are two very specific actions:
---> alignment in the field pushing Dell on the one that they are going to be most uncomfortabe with... Unix app migration (Kevin & Joe Marengi)
---> Clarity and metrics around Windows Server vs. Redhat in marketing and technology (product group and OEM group)

To Rick's last email on this thread around actions, I want to be careful we don't personalize it with Russ because I want to win him back but the key to that is thru Joe.

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982975
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




---- Original Message ----
From: Paul Flessner
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:07AM
To: Bill Veghte; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel


The obvious but:  Dell is a HW company.  They are facing tremendous margin pressure in a commodity market.  If you are Dell you are being forced to squeeze every dollar out of the business you can to survive.  Given that situation you would be looking hard at that MS OEM payment.

Think back to Jim Cash's talk this week.  These guys are living that situation.

I don't have the answer here but Dell's behavior is predictable and it won't change.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte 
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:55AM
To: Paul Flessner; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I was sitting right across the panel from him.  We waved at each other briefly before the panel started.

He said their basic strategy is around open standard systems of which there are two; Linux and Windows.  He said Windows three times during the whole discussion (it was a Linux panel tho) and then proceeded to push Linux very hard, never mentioning Windows.  Ironically, the guy on the panel that was most balanced in their comments was the CTO of the BEA.

Dell is and must continue to be a partner with us but we need to be very aggressive in comparing our position and their investment in RedHat.

---- Original Message ----
From: Brian Valentine 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:27PM
To: Bill Veghte; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Paul Flessner; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Did Russ Holt know you were there?  I can't imagine he would be this blatant against us if he knew you were there.  If he knew and he is really doing this, then we have some serious thinking to do around this relationship.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:27PM
To: Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Paul Flessner; Jim Allchin; Brian Valentine; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982976
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




Mundie
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees
Subject: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I was down at Goldman SW conference earlier this week doing a keynote and on the agenda there was a panel discussion on Linux after me so I asked to participate.  The panel consisted of CFO of RedHat, VPs from Oracle, BMG, BEA, Veritas and Dell.  It turned into quite a lively discussion as you can imagine.  Couple quick notes...

Dell & Linux:
Each company's position was quite predictably slamming us but the one that really got me animated was Dell.  Russ Holt (Server VP) was there representing Dell.  He was introduced as the man behind Dell's Linux strategy and the guy driving the Linux initiative at Dell.  He started off by saying, Dell is the #1 OEM distributor of Linux and they are committed to seeing that position grow.  He said that he believed Linux was ready for the enterprise and as way of evidence said Dell was a significant customer of RedHat and runs it on key mission critical environments; specifically their order entry system.  He said he was seeing growth not only in the "traditional" areas of web & f/p but also web, Unix LOB and HPC.  He then talked about how good the Oracle/Linux solution was and the strong partnership they had with Oracle around Linux.  Later when he was asked about the open source development model he said he saw significant advantages to it because it enabled much closer interactions and synergy with RedHat.

I spoke to Rick Wong about today but we need to make darn certain that our investments with Dell are benchmarked against any investments they make in RedHat.  The majority of their business is on Windows and their marketing, their website, and their investment should reflect this or we should call them on it.  Same goes for things like sales training or events.  When we do events, field engagement and measure our progress it should be benchmarked against the results and/or what they are doing with RedHat.  Dell is a key partner for us and one that imho will grow in significance in the coming years so it is a tricky balance but one that we need to be more aggressive around.

Linux & the enterprise:

This was the focus.  RedHat CFO spent his entire time talking about how their entire focus was Linux in the enterprise and all the things that they were doing to make it enterprise ready.  He then went on and on around the certification and testing programs that they had put in place and the partnerships they were building with companies like IBM, Dell, Oracle, Veritas, BMC, BEA etc.. Every other panelist underscored (a) that Linux was ready for prime-time in the enterprise, and (b) they were committing significant resources and product to make it even more so.

Linux Development Model:
Each of the panelists talked about the interaction with RedHat and the community development model as a real highlight for them.  They all talked about how it made it easier to impact the direction of the platform (including Dell ironically) and how transparent the whole process was.

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982977
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL

Comments

Recent Techrights' Posts

Microsoft Staff Harassing Women, Strangling Women, Telling Women to Kill Themselves and Worse? Not a Problem!
Two women have left Brett Wilson LLP
Microsoft Media Operatives and Bill Epsteingate-Funded Sites Said Microsoft Lays Off 9,000, But Other Sites Say More (Including 2,300 in Redmond Alone)
We might never know the real number/s (Microsoft will keep the cards close to its chest) until there are leakers or unless there are whistleblowers with hard proof
GNU/Linux Reaches All-Time High in the United States of America
Windows is trending down
 
GNU/Linux is Replacing Microsoft Windows. But We Need to Eradicate Microsoft, It's a Hub of Crime.
I have been writing about Microsoft since the 1990s when I was in school
Mystery Surrounding the PCLinuxOS Sites and PCLinuxOS Magazine
Let's hope this isn't something major
People and Companies Do Learn Some Lessons From Their Mistakes (Stubborn Ones Don't)
Brett Wilson LLP is an example of one that would rather drown in mistakes
Links 03/07/2025: 'Hey Hi' Slop Ridiculed Some More and Microsoft's Layoffs Tally for 2025 Reaches About 29,000 in Just 6 Months (Almost 5,000 Per Month)
Links for the day
The Slopfarms Are Losing the Plot (and Google is Propping Up Rogue Sites)
Google is part of the attack on the Web, on information, and on technology
New BetaNews Realises There's No Potential or Future in Slopfarms, Prior Editor Wayne Williams is Back
They realise that slop (so-called "AI") cannot replace humans
Claims That Microsoft Looks for Staff That Works More and Gets Paid Less (or Can Only Code by Grabbing Other People's Code, Under the Guise of "AI")
People can form their own opinion
Richard Stallman Was Right About Reasons Not to Use Microsoft
last updated 2017
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, July 02, 2025
IRC logs for Wednesday, July 02, 2025
Gemini Links 03/07/2025: No to Cloudflare and Small Web July
Links for the day
Links 02/07/2025: Deep Microsoft Cuts, Macron Speaks to Putin
Links for the day
Confirmed: Microsoft Shutdowns Today, Not Only Mass Layoffs
"The Initiative is the only studio closure planned today, although some other teams have seen cuts of varying degrees."
Microsoft Windows Nosedives in Switzerland While GNU/Linux Leaps Above 6%
sooner or later they might have to make the move anyway
Anxiety at Microsoft: Many Workers (Maybe Over 10,000) Still Don't Know They're Being Laid Off Just Before US Independence Day
"Has anyone gotten the notification yet?"
Microsoft "Declined to Say How Many People Would be Laid Off," According to Associated Press
Some other prominent publications said they reached out for comment from Microsoft and received none
The X War is Over and the "Wayland People" Lost
People will gravitate towards what works for them
20 Years Since My Thesis
It's still online
GNU/Linux is Replacing Windows in Laptops/Desktops
The world will move on while Windows and Microsoft shrink
Now Comes the Expected Webspam, Framing Microsoft Layoffs as "Hey Hi" Success Story (False Marketing That's Piggybacking the Layoffs)
falsely marketed as "intelligence"
Hungary: Microsoft Windows Sinks to 17% "Market Share"
In many nations in Europe it seems like the era of Windows is coming to an end
Microsoft Layoffs in Spain, Portugal Record for GNU/Linux
in Portugal we see GNU/Linux at record levels
Yes, Microsoft is Again Using Its Favourite Liars (Stenographers) to Seed Fake Layoff Numbers, Much Lower Than What's Really Happening
It is Jordan Novet again, just as we predicted
Will Microsoft Once Again Choose Its Favourite Liar to Spread Lies About Today's Layoffs, Quickly to be Replicated and Spread by Slopfarms?
What lies is Microsoft briefing its media moles to tell today?
"OSS Fetishism" Wins After Ferenc Zsolt Szabó Ousted (Microsoft Mole From Capgemini)
Many people said 2025 would be the "year of Linux on the desktop"
There is Nothing That LLMs Can Offer Honest People
LLMs are a passing fad; they're expensive and offer poor "value" for energy; they usually offer no value at all unless you are a cheater, spammer, and liar
What statCounter Shows Today Helps Explain Microsoft's Helplessness, Mass Layoffs
Since many US journalists are already away on holiday almost nobody will dare ask the difficult questions or give a voice to whistleblowers
Microsoft Gets the Chop in South America
The notion of digital sovereignty gained a lot of popularity
Europe Has an 'Exit'
Let's see what happens the rest of this year
El Presidente Talks, Canada Walks (Away From Windows)
GNU/Linux rising
Cities in France and Germany Move to GNU/Linux and statCounter Detects Big Differences
Will governments lead by example?
Microsoft Lost Its Foothold in Africa
How many of these are "old" Windows machines converted to GNU/Linux? Probably a lot.
Led by Europe, GNU/Linux Makes Big Gains This Month
statCounter started showing new/fresh stats
Links 02/07/2025: Massive Microsoft Layoffs About to Commence, "Tesla's Robotaxi Program Is Failing"
Links for the day
Why the Microsoft People Who Started SLAPPs Against Techrights Could Very Well be Sent Back to Prison
White-collar crime is also a crime
The Company Run by Former (and Last Proper) Red Hat CEO, Promoting Microsoft Mono, Faces Shock as Senior Partner Jailed for 33 Sexual Offenses Including Pedophilia
"As reported by The Oxford Mail in April 2025, the offenses include rape, sexual assault, engaging in non-penetrative activity with a child, and more."
Microsoft Lost 29% of Windows Users, Based on Microsoft, Now Come Massive Layoffs
Microsoft collapse is today
Slopwatch: Google Serves to People Linux Slop and Linux FUD (Made by Bots)
"Slopwatch" finds it difficult to ignore Google's role in encouraging LLM slop
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, July 01, 2025
IRC logs for Tuesday, July 01, 2025
"Wayland People" Behave Like the Googles and Microsofts of This World
Published yesterday by Igor Ljubuncic
Gemini Links 02/07/2025: Arch Linux and Fulfillment in Gemini
Links for the day
Links 01/07/2025: "Independence Day in Taiwan", Bounties on Software Patents
Links for the day
What Happens When Your Law Firm is Preoccupied With Harassing and Trying to Extort a Humble Couple in Manchester, Even on Behalf of Violent Microsoft Staff From Another Continent
It's good to see that law firms which operate in bad faith are perishing
Lawyer X, Law Firm X and Elon Musk's X: scandals linked by Old Xaverian
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Gemini Links 01/07/2025: Distraction-Free Writing and Hytale Mismanagement
Links for the day
Links 01/07/2025: "Beauty of Blogging" and "Etiquette of Collapse"
Links for the day
Microsoft Uses LLM Slop to Defraud (or Rob) Shareholders
Microsoft is basically defrauding its shareholders by LLM slop
The Web is a Dead End
We need to adopt alternatives
When Words Lose Their Intended Meaning
examples of words that, at least in the technical spheres, don't mean what they sound like
People Who Disagree With You on Technical Matters May or May Not Agree With You on Political Things (But Usually They Do)
What bothers me a great deal is seeing left-leaning people accusing other left-leaning people of being "nazis"
"Too Much Choice" and "Too Many Programming Languages"
What IBM and its apologists aim for was attempted in the 1930s and it failed
Microsoft Lost 400,000,000 Windows Users, According to Microsoft
more people adopt smaller computers and many people replace Windows with GNU/Linux, as they don't really need a new computer
The "Davos Effect": Tarnishing the Reputation of Places Not by Overtourism But by Oligarch Infestation
The last Venice needs is an affiliation with Venetian oligarchs
Half a Year Gone, What's to Come Next
In the second half of 2025 we expect to be done with the Microsoft SLAPPs
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, June 30, 2025
IRC logs for Monday, June 30, 2025
People at the Very Top of Microsoft Know How Bad Things Really Are
There's no product that can replace the former profitability of Windows licensing and stuff that went on top of Windows
Gemini Links 01/07/2025: Mid Year and a Tour of Old Languages
Links for the day