To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| _Hicham_ | that is what i like about it | Mar 13 20:52 |
|---|---|---|
| _Hicham_ | everything is neatly done in a professional way | Mar 13 20:52 |
| _Hicham_ | no need to think about the layout | Mar 13 20:53 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the de facto standard in scientific documents | Mar 13 20:54 |
| _Hicham_ | I ve read about Kile | Mar 13 20:55 |
| _Hicham_ | but I didnt use it, since I have gnome | Mar 13 20:55 |
| _Hicham_ | and KDE apps do not fit very well on gnome | Mar 13 20:56 |
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| schestowitz | I hope PJ is properly back now that the RSS feeds are back. Contributions to good causes outlast some hardships. PJ too has taken her much-deserved break. We all do. | Mar 13 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. re JZuck someone says: "I like him because you know what you get and they are easily attackable." | Mar 13 21:04 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/... | Mar 13 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Security vs. privacy? Reinterpreting the Fourth Amendment < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news... > | Mar 13 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Easy to get 'promoted' from gutter level: MPAA announces major promotions < http://www.filmjournal.com/filmjournal/con... > | Mar 13 21:13 |
| balzac | Roy, I read that link you posted on Linus Torvald's trash-talking | Mar 13 21:20 |
| balzac | I have to admit, the guy has a sense of humor | Mar 13 21:21 |
| balzac | It can't be interpreted any other way than as dry humor | Mar 13 21:21 |
| balzac | http://www.softpanorama.org/Peopl... | Mar 13 21:21 |
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| balzac | The person I have the greatest problem with is that (in)famous communist | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | RMS. Now, RMS may have been responsible for GNU, the GPL, GCC and many | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | other contributions to the computing community, but his stance, as well as | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | stench, displayed in his essays and actions, nauseates me. I mean, with | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | people refer to Linux as GNU / Linux? | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | that filth-ridden beard of his, where does he have room to demand that | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | that's pretty silly | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | obviously sarcastic | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | Next in line of dirty scuzz-balls I have to deal with, and probably the | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | worst thorn in my side, is Alan Cox, the primary coder of my kernel's TCP/IP | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | stack (ha, what a joke!) and all around dirty GNU hippy. Alan views | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | toothpaste the same way a vampire views garlic. | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | ridiculous | Mar 13 21:22 |
| balzac | Then he zings ESR | Mar 13 21:23 |
| balzac | And then we come to ESR. I won't reiterate the sewer-dweller like cleansing | Mar 13 21:23 |
| balzac | habits he practices as well, but I would like to focus on his general | Mar 13 21:23 |
| balzac | lifestyle. I like to refer to ESR as AGB or “Arrogant Gas Baron.” The man’ | Mar 13 21:23 |
| balzac | s flatulence is legendary. | Mar 13 21:23 |
| MinceR | (offtopic) http://xkcd.com/555/ | Mar 13 21:23 |
| balzac | Ok, Linus isn't such a square afterall | Mar 13 21:23 |
| balzac | he's a real clown | Mar 13 21:23 |
| balzac | I'd like to see him upgrade the Linux Kernel to GPLv3, but ultimately, I'm not attached to that goal. | Mar 13 21:24 |
| balzac | I want to see Hurd development resume. | Mar 13 21:24 |
| MinceR | balzac: sounds like someone who has run out of arguments (if he had any to begin with) | Mar 13 21:24 |
| MinceR | hence, ad hominem. | Mar 13 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Enjoy: http://torrentfreak.com/sxsw-20... SXSW 2009 on BitTorrent: 6 GB of Free Music | Mar 13 21:24 |
| balzac | I'm less offended by his dry humor than I am by his intellectually-dishonest arguments against RMS and GPLv3 | Mar 13 21:25 |
| balzac | MinceR: I can only take those scathing comments as jokes because they're so silly | Mar 13 21:25 |
| schestowitz | http://sites.google.com/site/sxs... | Mar 13 21:27 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac:Linus is known for that | Mar 13 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Download it | Mar 13 21:27 |
| balzac | I mentioned that I thought Mark Shuttleworth was uneccessarily diplomatic. I prefer an environment of jocular trash-talking as demonstrated by Linus Torvald's comments above | Mar 13 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Make the MAFIAA angrier | Mar 13 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Wait until the MAFIAA patents sounds | Mar 13 21:27 |
| schestowitz | and then claims infringement of music patents or something | Mar 13 21:28 |
| _Hicham_ | Shuttleworth is at another position | Mar 13 21:28 |
| balzac | _Hicham_: I don't follow Linus very closely because he's always trying to hog the spotlight, criticizing Richard Stallman. | Mar 13 21:28 |
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| balzac | I think of Shuttleworth and Torvalds as leutenants and RMS as the 4-star general | Mar 13 21:29 |
| balzac | or something like that... | Mar 13 21:29 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : Linus have said : " I am an egocentric person" | Mar 13 21:29 |
| schestowitz | I get good speeds | Mar 13 21:30 |
| schestowitz | 6GB of music, RIAA-free.. nothing illegal | Mar 13 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | but he has a big sense of humor | Mar 13 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | and we all love him | Mar 13 21:30 |
| schestowitz | balzac: : give Linus a break | Mar 13 21:30 |
| schestowitz | He's better off on our team | Mar 13 21:31 |
| schestowitz | By alienating we divide further | Mar 13 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : it is not gonna divide us | Mar 13 21:31 |
| schestowitz | RMS too tries to get along | Mar 13 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | we are just talking | Mar 13 21:31 |
| MinceR | i like the community to be as diverse as it is. :) | Mar 13 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Mar 13 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | that is true | Mar 13 21:31 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: let's concntrate on real issues like Apple and MS | Mar 13 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : OK | Mar 13 21:32 |
| schestowitz | Linus would be the wrong target, IMHO | Mar 13 21:32 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : He is not a target | Mar 13 21:34 |
| _Hicham_ | We all love him | Mar 13 21:34 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac have a great sense of humor too | Mar 13 21:35 |
| _Hicham_ | let express oursleves freely | Mar 13 21:35 |
| _Hicham_ | by the way, have u ever used Octave? | Mar 13 21:37 |
| schestowitz | Warner Music attacks babies < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/... > | Mar 13 21:38 |
| balzac | _Hicham_ , my dad tells me to keep my sense of humor in a kryptonite box or I'll be socially-ostracized | Mar 13 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Bah. Who cares.. :p | Mar 13 21:39 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : well, at least here u can express it freely | Mar 13 21:39 |
| schestowitz | There's something very fun about seeding these torrents | Mar 13 21:39 |
| schestowitz | It's sharing the love | Mar 13 21:39 |
| schestowitz | Totally legal | Mar 13 21:40 |
| balzac | Roy, LT is not a target as far as I'm concerned, but I like to retaliate when he rips on RMS. When he's seriously criticizing, not when he's joking. | Mar 13 21:40 |
| schestowitz | An artists makes the songs free | Mar 13 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Then all the people spread it through the networks worldwide. | Mar 13 21:40 |
| schestowitz | It's the 'disease' that scares the RIAA | Mar 13 21:40 |
| balzac | http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/commun... | Mar 13 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Suddenly their music is expensive | Mar 13 21:40 |
| schestowitz | and CC kicks their asses | Mar 13 21:40 |
| balzac | that's my editorial piece hitting back at LT on behalf of RMS & the FSF | Mar 13 21:41 |
| schestowitz | balzac: agreed | Mar 13 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Another Finnish person had similar views, I think | Mar 13 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Mickos | Mar 13 21:41 |
| balzac | But Linus Torvalds doesn't have a thin skin, so I'm not worried about his fragile ego. | Mar 13 21:41 |
| trmanco | Microsoft-Novell Relationship Hits the Skids: https://slashdot.org/article.pl... | Mar 13 21:43 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Mar 13 21:43 |
| balzac | I don't think Mark Shuttleworth is a cry-baby either. It's the fanboys of the prominent figures who get bent out of shape. | Mar 13 21:43 |
| trmanco | "So Novell, one of the biggest Linux distributors in the world, and Microsoft, one of the biggest companies in world history, couldn't find a single large customer on Planet Earth to buy into Novell's Suse Linux Enterprise Server software. " | Mar 13 21:44 |
| balzac | The phrase the bloggers like to use is WATB (whiney-assed titty babies) | Mar 13 21:44 |
| schestowitz | Good! FP too | Mar 13 21:44 |
| schestowitz | That ought to raise awareness. | Mar 13 21:44 |
| schestowitz | I'll leave a quick comment | Mar 13 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | microsoft used FreeBSD on their hotmail servers | Mar 13 21:47 |
| trmanco | yeah, long time ago | Mar 13 21:47 |
| balzac | with any luck, Novell and SuSE can extricate themselves from the lecherous embrace of Steve Ballmer | Mar 13 21:47 |
| balzac | Ballmer could use a good nickname | Mar 13 21:48 |
| trmanco | Ballnux | Mar 13 21:48 |
| trmanco | BallusE | Mar 13 21:48 |
| balzac | that's SuSE Enterprise | Mar 13 21:48 |
| balzac | But what about Ballmer himself? | Mar 13 21:48 |
| balzac | he already has one: Monkey-Boy | Mar 13 21:48 |
| trmanco | he is a broken Windows machine | Mar 13 21:48 |
| balzac | bbiab | Mar 13 21:49 |
| schestowitz | I don't want to ruin my "excellent" karma | Mar 13 21:49 |
| schestowitz | I said: "People still buy Red Hat. Check their numbers. Novell was warned (since the beginning of its relationship with Microsoft) that Microsoft 'partners' consistently get stabbed in the back. It took Novell a couple of years to take the toll." | Mar 13 21:49 |
| trmanco | it's in some kind of infinite loop (the sweat), and when it hits the Climax (BSoD) he start jumping like a monkey | Mar 13 21:49 |
| schestowitz | What? | Mar 13 21:51 |
| schestowitz | balzac: if these numbers are true ( http://californiaquantum.wordpress.co... ), then Fedora may be the next Ubuntu, in terms of market share. F11 looks good so far. | Mar 13 21:53 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : fedora has still a long way to go to be comparable to Ubuntu | Mar 13 21:53 |
| schestowitz | It would be heathier to have an equal RPM/DEB split (Fedora and Mandriva vs Debian(s)/Buntus) | Mar 13 21:53 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: they use the same componants | Mar 13 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Including GNOME | Mar 13 21:54 |
| schestowitz | You're talking about it as though Fedora needs to implement something that Ubuntu got _for itself_ | Mar 13 21:54 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : Fedora needs to change their package format | Mar 13 21:54 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what i concluded | Mar 13 21:55 |
| _Hicham_ | it is too slow | Mar 13 21:55 |
| _Hicham_ | and more complicated | Mar 13 21:55 |
| _Hicham_ | deb packages are easy to create and maintain | Mar 13 21:55 |
| _Hicham_ | even for a newbie | Mar 13 21:55 |
| _Hicham_ | yum is still a mess compared to apt | Mar 13 21:55 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat is a great company, but they are just stubborn about rpm and yum | Mar 13 21:57 |
| *schestowitz can't wait for the torrents to finish. Tired of listening to these old Nas CDs | Mar 13 21:57 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Mandriva handles RPMs nicely | Mar 13 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Never given me any problem | Mar 13 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Not even outside repos (downloads as RPMs) | Mar 13 21:58 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe urmpi has evolved | Mar 13 21:58 |
| _Hicham_ | i didnt use it for a while | Mar 13 21:58 |
| schestowitz | I had spotless experiences with Ubuntu repos too | Mar 13 21:59 |
| _Hicham_ | in any way, i always think that they must be a universal packages management mechanism | Mar 13 21:59 |
| _Hicham_ | since package management is basically the same | Mar 13 21:59 |
| _Hicham_ | an abstraction of deb and rpm format | Mar 13 22:00 |
| _Hicham_ | that would make things easier to distribute | Mar 13 22:00 |
| _Hicham_ | package management is all about dependencies | Mar 13 22:00 |
| _Hicham_ | yum and apt both resolve dependencies | Mar 13 22:01 |
| _Hicham_ | but apt is praised to be more efficient | Mar 13 22:01 |
| _Hicham_ | rpm is installed by default in ubuntu | Mar 13 22:02 |
| _Hicham_ | yum is available in official repo | Mar 13 22:02 |
| _Hicham_ | so u could use them both to produce binaries | Mar 13 22:02 |
| schestowitz | Fun article: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/n... (Computer Data Storage Through the Ages -- From Punch Cards to Blu-Ray) | Mar 13 22:03 |
| schestowitz | F* | Mar 13 22:07 |
| schestowitz | I think my torrent overload the pipe | Mar 13 22:07 |
| schestowitz | Totally legal | Mar 13 22:07 |
| schestowitz | But daemonised | Mar 13 22:07 |
| schestowitz | SourceForge Announces Support for Git, Bazaar and Mercurial... | Mar 13 22:09 |
| schestowitz | brb dinner | Mar 13 22:11 |
| _Hicham_ | bring back some food with u | Mar 13 22:13 |
| _Hicham_ | :D | Mar 13 22:14 |
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| Balrog_ | don't know if you learned, but | Mar 13 22:20 |
| Balrog_ | iPod Touch 2G is jailbroken | Mar 13 22:21 |
| MinceR | why jailbreak it if you can get a digital music player that's functional by default? | Mar 13 22:22 |
| MinceR | with warranty | Mar 13 22:22 |
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| Balrog_ | which one??? | Mar 13 22:22 |
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| Balrog_ | btw, jailbreak does NOT void warranty | Mar 13 22:22 |
| Balrog_ | there is ROM recovery mode | Mar 13 22:22 |
| MinceR | for example, something from Cowon | Mar 13 22:22 |
| Balrog_ | not the same quality | Mar 13 22:23 |
| Balrog_ | the ipod-touch community is large | Mar 13 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Not what it sounds like: Worm blamed for laptop crash < http://www.khanya.co.za/blogs/index... > | Mar 13 22:24 |
| schestowitz | "Mark Taylor's laptop recently crashed because of a worm . But the worm was of a different type. It was a 12 centimeter long earthworm, which crawled into an air vent of his laptop and coiled itself around a cooling fan. The result? The laptop overheated." | Mar 13 22:24 |
| MinceR | what does a community of apple fanboys have to do with quality? | Mar 13 22:24 |
| MinceR | please make some sense. | Mar 13 22:24 |
| Balrog_ | not fanboys | Mar 13 22:25 |
| Balrog_ | the dev community | Mar 13 22:25 |
| Balrog_ | like Jay Freeman and all those guys | Mar 13 22:25 |
| Balrog_ | also, which platform can I get more applications (of any kind) for? | Mar 13 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | iPod Touch wins fast. | Mar 13 22:26 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* http://linux.slashdot.org/comme... | Mar 13 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Perens on Novell | Mar 13 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | more 'jailbreak' apps, more 'official' apps | Mar 13 22:26 |
| schestowitz | "OK, cue the violins! Now, all of you at once!AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! " | Mar 13 22:26 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: palmos, windows mobile? :) | Mar 13 22:29 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: buggy as **** | Mar 13 22:30 |
| Balrog_ | both of those | Mar 13 22:30 |
| Balrog_ | Android is decent | Mar 13 22:30 |
| MinceR | now please argue that apple software is bugless so i can laugh loudly at you | Mar 13 22:30 |
| Balrog_ | but then again, no music player has it | Mar 13 22:30 |
| MinceR | and then so i can feel really sorry for you | Mar 13 22:30 |
| Balrog_ | No, Apple software has *fewer* bugs than both palmos and windows mobile | Mar 13 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | it's like | Mar 13 22:31 |
| MinceR | also, apparently you don't mind design flaws at all | Mar 13 22:31 |
| MinceR | like the one that makes you _jailbreak_ the damn thing to begin with | Mar 13 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | windows Mobile ------- PalmOS -------------------- Apple OS -------- (0-bugs) | Mar 13 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | definitely not bug-free | Mar 13 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Perens and Allison on FAT and GPL: http://news.slashdot.org... | Mar 13 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | but I've had experience with palm | Mar 13 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | no fun :/ | Mar 13 22:31 |
| MinceR | see people, this is the Reality Distortion Field in action | Mar 13 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | so does Android make you jailbreak | Mar 13 22:31 |
| MinceR | android is almost as crap, yes | Mar 13 22:32 |
| Balrog_ | Of iPhone OS, Palm OS, and Windows Mobile, iPhone OS has the fewest bugs | Mar 13 22:32 |
| Balrog_ | in my experiences | Mar 13 22:32 |
| Balrog_ | yes, it still has bugs | Mar 13 22:33 |
| Balrog_ | sometimes safari quits unexpectedly, among other things | Mar 13 22:33 |
| MinceR | by the way, if we're counting locked-down crap like the iphone os, let's not forget symbian either | Mar 13 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Black Duck (sounds like Black F*) is once again FUDing FOSS: http://www.informationweek.com/news/... | Mar 13 22:34 |
| schestowitz | The company was founded by a Microsoft employee | Mar 13 22:34 |
| Balrog_ | I haven't used it, but I don't believe symbian is UNIX-based (POSIX-compliant, optional [though may need to jailbreak] Terminal app, etc) or has as many quality apps | Mar 13 22:35 |
| MinceR | please remind me, when did we make "unix-based" a criterion here? | Mar 13 22:36 |
| Balrog_ | can you jailbreak symbian, and do interesting stuff on it? | Mar 13 22:36 |
| MinceR | how far will you bend over backwards in your futile attempts to make apple crap look like it's usable? | Mar 13 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Adobe still doesn't get it: Adobe: 'Open' But Not Always Open Source < http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/ar... > | Mar 13 22:37 |
| MinceR | yes, symbian can be jailbroken too | Mar 13 22:37 |
| MinceR | and yes, it's a pain to do | Mar 13 22:37 |
| Balrog_ | apple stuff is very usable. I get much more use out of it than any other stuff. Sure, Linux is close behind, but that is how it is | Mar 13 22:37 |
| Balrog_ | (speaking from experience, not politics) | Mar 13 22:38 |
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| MinceR | and continuing your reasoning, apple stuff is not very usable because i get less use out of it than any other stuff. | Mar 13 22:40 |
| Balrog_ | that's your experience | Mar 13 22:40 |
| Balrog_ | but I don't know if you ever tried to *use* it or not | Mar 13 22:40 |
| MinceR | which is by no means less valuable than yours | Mar 13 22:40 |
| MinceR | i have tried to use osx and it sucked | Mar 13 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | for how long? | Mar 13 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | a day? a week? a month? | Mar 13 22:41 |
| MinceR | it didn't live up to a millionth of the hype | Mar 13 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | what version? | Mar 13 22:41 |
| MinceR | i didn't measure it; whatever version someone offered as a vmware vm | Mar 13 22:41 |
| MinceR | s/vm/image/ | Mar 13 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | heh, there's a problem | Mar 13 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | and how long? | Mar 13 22:42 |
| MinceR | dunno | Mar 13 22:42 |
| MinceR | i got tired of the ui pretty quickly | Mar 13 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | well you're used to stuff that many people hate | Mar 13 22:42 |
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| Balrog_ | like mouse focus | Mar 13 22:43 |
| Balrog_ | as I said, layering windows works fine for me | Mar 13 22:43 |
| Balrog_ | and there are virtual desktops | Mar 13 22:43 |
| MinceR | i'm used to stuff that works, thank-you-very-much | Mar 13 22:44 |
| Balrog_ | ms windows doesn't have mouse focus | Mar 13 22:44 |
| MinceR | while apple fanboys haven't even experimented with settings | Mar 13 22:44 |
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| MinceR | windows is crap, too | Mar 13 22:44 |
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| MinceR | even then, windows is more flexible than osx | Mar 13 22:44 |
| MinceR | and it has a taskbar :> | Mar 13 22:44 |
| Balrog_ | I hate that taskbar | Mar 13 22:45 |
| MinceR | i expected that | Mar 13 22:45 |
| Balrog_ | when I use windows, it gets full so quickly that it becomes useless | Mar 13 22:45 |
| MinceR | yeah, not like you can resize it... oh, wait | Mar 13 22:45 |
| *Balrog_ likes having dozens of windows open at once | Mar 13 22:45 | |
| *MinceR has them too | Mar 13 22:45 | |
| Balrog_ | yeah, then it takes over an insane amount of space | Mar 13 22:45 |
| MinceR | yeah, that's what autohide is for | Mar 13 22:45 |
| MinceR | or a widescreen monitor | Mar 13 22:46 |
| Balrog_ | I've used that too | Mar 13 22:46 |
| Balrog_ | but also you can't easily identify which is which | Mar 13 22:46 |
| MinceR | i can | Mar 13 22:46 |
| MinceR | perhaps you can't :> | Mar 13 22:46 |
| Balrog_ | well I find the taskbar very inefficient | Mar 13 22:46 |
| Balrog_ | maybe you don't | Mar 13 22:46 |
| MinceR | it's the best idea m$ stole from arthur/risc os ;) | Mar 13 22:47 |
| Balrog_ | many say it's a bad idea | Mar 13 22:47 |
| Balrog_ | apparently you don't think so | Mar 13 22:47 |
| MinceR | apparently | Mar 13 22:48 |
| schestowitz | taskbar is bad metaphor | Mar 13 22:48 |
| schestowitz | KDE imitates it | Mar 13 22:48 |
| MinceR | quick, tell me that i'm the only person in the world who thinks it's a good idea | Mar 13 22:48 |
| schestowitz | Task and systray are similar | Mar 13 22:48 |
| schestowitz | i tried awn for a while | Mar 13 22:48 |
| MinceR | metaphors are overrated | Mar 13 22:49 |
| schestowitz | crap too | Mar 13 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Just toss your apps in the designated desktops and call it a day | Mar 13 22:49 |
| MinceR | apple fanboys keep claiming how intuitive their favorite crap is | Mar 13 22:49 |
| Balrog_ | well on os x I don't use the taskbar for app switching, rather cmd-tab | Mar 13 22:49 |
| MinceR | it isn't | Mar 13 22:49 |
| schestowitz | CTRL+Fx for switching | Mar 13 22:49 |
| Balrog_ | the taskbar is more useful for opening apps | Mar 13 22:49 |
| MinceR | no interface is intuitive, everything is learned | Mar 13 22:49 |
| schestowitz | taskbar is good for group handling | Mar 13 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Only in KDE though | Mar 13 22:49 |
| Balrog_ | s/taskbar/dock | Mar 13 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Like 'minimise all' | Mar 13 22:50 |
| schestowitz | 20 windows sometimes | Mar 13 22:50 |
| Balrog_ | and os x lets you hide all of an app's windows | Mar 13 22:50 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: agreed | Mar 13 22:50 |
| Balrog_ | or yes, hide all temporarily | Mar 13 22:50 |
| MinceR | and if you don't agree, get a windows fanboy to try osx and ask him | Mar 13 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Speaking of interface, a friend mailed me this some minutes ago: "As his article says, Cinelerra is capable of some really kick-ass effects. It is really on par almost feature for feature with Final Cut Pro, except for some effects. | Mar 13 22:50 |
| schestowitz | "It give you highly granular control over your work, but as you can tell from the GUI screenshots on his blog, it is highly complex and requires a good bit of study, and, as his blog implies, some really serious horsepower if you are going to get maximum use of the power of Cinelerra." | Mar 13 22:50 |
| Balrog_ | try to get a windows fanboy to try linux as well | Mar 13 22:51 |
| MinceR | or check how many questions does a _real_ newb ask when learning osx | Mar 13 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Cinelerra is advanced and complex | Mar 13 22:51 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: the point is the same: no ui is intuitive | Mar 13 22:51 |
| schestowitz | "But of course, for the cost of Final Cut Pro, you could actually afford the kind of kick-ass machine he is describing, and then run Cinelerra (soon to become Lumiera) on it. " | Mar 13 22:51 |
| Balrog_ | a _real_ newb is someone who hasn't tried windows or linux OR os x | Mar 13 22:51 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: exactly | Mar 13 22:51 |
| schestowitz | He prefers Kino anyway | Mar 13 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Much simpler | Mar 13 22:51 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: note my clever use of the word 'or' | Mar 13 22:51 |
| Balrog_ | with os x I get much more done than with windows (and some more than with Linux) | Mar 13 22:52 |
| schestowitz | "Thanks so much for sending me that link! I am really excited by the fact that people are starting to see that video editing can be simple under GNU-Linux. It is so important that we (the FOSS community) are seen as sexy and attractive, because we need to do a much better job of pulling in new users, so that when we are attacked as in the TomTom example, we will have more people on our side to fight along with us. " | Mar 13 22:52 |
| schestowitz | "Success is no longer a technological issue, it is now a political issue. Video editing is something that can make use look cool and sexy. " | Mar 13 22:52 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: afaik kde can be configured to use most of the stupid ideas of the osx ui -- have you tried that? | Mar 13 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Munchkins (even Apple users) throw mud at Linux over video | Mar 13 22:52 |
| MinceR | well, maybe not the random button order | Mar 13 22:52 |
| Balrog_ | explain where to configure. I've tried kde and it's rather messy | Mar 13 22:52 |
| MinceR | i'm not sure if that's configurable in any gui | Mar 13 22:52 |
| Balrog_ | Random button order??? | Mar 13 22:53 |
| Balrog_ | elaborate | Mar 13 22:53 |
| schestowitz | AV is quite all right at the FOSS level. At proprietary levels it's fine for HOLLYWOOD studios | Mar 13 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Mac software for video editing is typically processed by Linux servers too | Mar 13 22:53 |
| MinceR | where they put OK on the right (where someone who reads left to right looks last) and the other buttons in random order | Mar 13 22:53 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: I'm not sure about that | Mar 13 22:53 |
| MinceR | (and by OK, i mean default confirm/action button :> ) | Mar 13 22:53 |
| Balrog_ | but I do know that Linux is used for other stuff, not editing | Mar 13 22:54 |
| MinceR | (or whatever your favorite "experts" like to call it) | Mar 13 22:54 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: I find it not-so-random | Mar 13 22:54 |
| MinceR | yeah, linux isn't used for editing. i wonder what cinepaint is for, then | Mar 13 22:54 |
| _Hicham_ | AV is super great on Linux | Mar 13 22:54 |
| Balrog_ | what third-party programmers do is their business | Mar 13 22:54 |
| MinceR | and why do studios keep claiming they use linux for editing | Mar 13 22:54 |
| _Hicham_ | Avidemux for Example | Mar 13 22:55 |
| Balrog_ | I meant, it is used, but not as widely | Mar 13 22:55 |
| _Hicham_ | it processes videos on the fly | Mar 13 22:55 |
| MinceR | ooh, now we're in the vague unverifiable statements territory | Mar 13 22:55 |
| Balrog_ | cinepaint isn't considered exactly editing by the strict definition | Mar 13 22:55 |
| MinceR | yeah, it's just magic | Mar 13 22:55 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: new wine, new linux -rc | Mar 13 22:56 |
| MinceR | as for apple's button ordering not being random -- sure, they have a couple of stupid rules, but all they end up doing is that... | Mar 13 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: rendering and editing | Mar 13 22:56 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, yes | Mar 13 22:56 |
| MinceR | 1) reading left to right (like a normal person using an english gui would) i find the confirm button last | Mar 13 22:56 |
| trmanco | I forgot to mention that | Mar 13 22:57 |
| MinceR | 2) i generally want to do the actions i initiate so this wastes my time | Mar 13 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: studios moved from UNIX (Solaris sometimes) to Linux | Mar 13 22:57 |
| MinceR | 3) and as an added bonus, they set off a random button to the left edge so it takes even more time to process) | Mar 13 22:57 |
| MinceR | s/.$// | Mar 13 22:57 |
| schestowitz | They don't need Aqua and stuff to just run their high-end wares | Mar 13 22:57 |
| schestowitz | RHEL does the job | Mar 13 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Same in Intel | Mar 13 22:57 |
| MinceR | all hail the "usability experts" who have managed to waste the user's time with a few clever rules | Mar 13 22:57 |
| schestowitz | HCI reminds me of INNOVA~1 | Mar 13 22:58 |
| schestowitz | In egenral, USABIL~1 is like INNOVA~1 | Mar 13 22:58 |
| MinceR | on the subject of usability, the menubar on the top is because they didn't interpret Fitt's law correctly | Mar 13 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Man: "why should I buy your product?" | Mar 13 22:58 |
| MinceR | yeah | Mar 13 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Woman salesment: "we offer innovation" | Mar 13 22:59 |
| MinceR | m$ fanboys use the INNOVA~1 curse word | Mar 13 22:59 |
| schestowitz | "it's more expensive because ity's intuitive" | Mar 13 22:59 |
| MinceR | crApple fanboys use the USABIL~1 curse word | Mar 13 22:59 |
| trmanco | USABILITY -> USABI#% | Mar 13 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer likes the INNOVA~1 junk | Mar 13 22:59 |
| schestowitz | That guy Larry Cohen was feeding BillG and SweatyB this stuff | Mar 13 22:59 |
| schestowitz | You see this in the talking points memo he prepared for them | Mar 13 22:59 |
| schestowitz | it's all makretingf | Mar 13 23:00 |
| MinceR | i don't know who Larry Cohen is | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | I can find that memo | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | very funny | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 INNOVA~1 | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Make no mistake | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | It's deliberate | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | it;s hypnosius | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | brainwash if you like | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | They need to recite it in interview and people believe it | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Apple harps about "easy" | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Linux... well, it's has a 1337 image | Mar 13 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Whcih doesn't appeal from a marketing standpoint | Mar 13 23:01 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: search BN | Mar 13 23:01 |
| schestowitz | He quite MS last month | Mar 13 23:01 |
| MinceR | perhaps apple fanboys buy so heavily into that crap because they've spent more on it | Mar 13 23:01 |
| schestowitz | *quit | Mar 13 23:01 |
| MinceR | (i mean money) | Mar 13 23:01 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02... | Mar 13 23:01 |
| schestowitz | It's one of the marketing clowns | Mar 13 23:02 |
| MinceR | apple crap is expensive so they've got to justify the expenditure somehow | Mar 13 23:02 |
| schestowitz | His role is to manage how MS comminuicted with the world that it robs | Mar 13 23:02 |
| schestowitz | "Talking points" memo here: | Mar 13 23:02 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0.../ | Mar 13 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Oops. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01... | Mar 13 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Hilarious | Mar 13 23:02 |
| MinceR | Larry Cohen stayed with his beloved Pearly though | Mar 13 23:02 |
| MinceR | (btw, another nifty thing i'd like to see major GUIs 'steal' from arthur/risc os is that the main menu is on right click) | Mar 13 23:04 |
| Balrog_ | main menu? | Mar 13 23:04 |
| MinceR | what's the menu bar in most guis | Mar 13 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Report: Microsoft U.S. Search Share Hits 12-month Low < http://www.pcworld.com/article/161222/... > | Mar 13 23:07 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: of course | Mar 13 23:07 |
| schestowitz | THigher up the pyramid | Mar 13 23:07 |
| schestowitz | *Higher | Mar 13 23:07 |
| schestowitz | @trmanco : it's news when Gmail goes down (not normal for Wintel press), not when Hotmail goes down as it just did. | Mar 13 23:09 |
| MinceR | wow, Panda Security has released a fix to a security hole that's been in all windows versions since 95 >> http://www.pandasecurity.com/homeu... | Mar 13 23:09 |
| schestowitz | START me up!! Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh :-) | Mar 13 23:10 |
| MinceR | :) | Mar 13 23:10 |
| MinceR | Start/Shutdown... | Mar 13 23:10 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbCmnRztK1Y | Mar 13 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Shut this man down :-) | Mar 13 23:11 |
| MinceR | lock him up | Mar 13 23:11 |
| MinceR | make him do work for once in his life | Mar 13 23:12 |
| Balrog_ | come on | Mar 13 23:12 |
| Balrog_ | you can disable that with tweakui | Mar 13 23:13 |
| schestowitz | "COmon!!!" | Mar 13 23:13 |
| schestowitz | Give it up.. | Mar 13 23:13 |
| MinceR | yes, and i can disble the rest of the security holes with dd or fsck | Mar 13 23:13 |
| MinceR | or a kubuntu install disk | Mar 13 23:13 |
| MinceR | s/sb/sab/ | Mar 13 23:13 |
| Balrog_ | I'm stuck with people who require windows | Mar 13 23:14 |
| MinceR | doesn't change the fact that it's on by default and hard to disable | Mar 13 23:14 |
| MinceR | it's just like the iPoo DontTouch/jesusPhone thing | Mar 13 23:14 |
| Balrog_ | ??? | Mar 13 23:14 |
| MinceR | sure it can be hammered into something not entirely useless | Mar 13 23:14 |
| MinceR | but why bother if you can get superior products? | Mar 13 23:14 |
| Balrog_ | no, windows can't | Mar 13 23:14 |
| Balrog_ | I've tried in the past, but it's useless | Mar 13 23:15 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, what can we do... | Mar 13 23:17 |
| trmanco | oh, that was a tweet | Mar 13 23:18 |
| trmanco | just saw it | Mar 13 23:18 |
| schestowitz | I'll post it to COLA | Mar 13 23:18 |
| schestowitz | The Munckins will ignore | Mar 13 23:18 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxdevices.com/ne... "According to Via, the VX855 supports Linux, Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP.." WAIT wait wait... there IS. No. Windows. 7. | Mar 13 23:20 |
| trmanco | Ubuntu! Cool! Playtime!!!: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.fr... | Mar 13 23:23 |
| trmanco | :) | Mar 13 23:23 |
| schestowitz | yuck: http://blog.bodhizazen.net/linux... | Mar 13 23:26 |
| schestowitz | mono devs there (packagers) | Mar 13 23:26 |
| schestowitz | Check out the mouseover effect they do here with CSS: http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/soa/X... | Mar 13 23:32 |
| schestowitz | I've looked at page sort, it looks quite elegant. | Mar 13 23:32 |
| _Hicham_ | moonlight is available in Ubuntu | Mar 13 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Is Ubuntu Taking Over? Should I Follow? < http://jjmacey.net/blog/?p=236 > | Mar 13 23:33 |
| _Hicham_ | http://packages.ubuntu.com/jau... | Mar 13 23:33 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : I think that Ubuntu will even help install moonlight as it does for flash | Mar 13 23:34 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u think? | Mar 13 23:36 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu is better than windows anyway | Mar 13 23:39 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, http://identi.ca/notice/2776615 | Mar 13 23:39 |
| trmanco | you can now post notices by email | Mar 13 23:39 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, have a look at my tags now :-P | Mar 13 23:40 |
| schestowitz | I know | Mar 13 23:41 |
| schestowitz | They did maintenance | Mar 13 23:42 |
| schestowitz | Afterwards I started getting mail alerts | Mar 13 23:42 |
| trmanco | deativate them | Mar 13 23:42 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Microsoft uses Novell to poison Linux | Mar 13 23:42 |
| schestowitz | Canonical takes the bait IMHO | Mar 13 23:42 |
| trmanco | deactivate "Send me email when someone sends me an "@-reply"." | Mar 13 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Just left a comment in: http://blogs.computerworld.com/pc_ven... | Mar 13 23:43 |
| schestowitz | It annoyed me that he didn't just tell his readers what was REALLY happening | Mar 13 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Lenovo take Microsoft money to shaft Linux | Mar 13 23:43 |
| schestowitz | That's what's happening | Mar 13 23:43 |
| schestowitz | And we have leaked proof of this | Mar 13 23:44 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: no, I'm fine with alerts, they get filtered into a separate mail account and directory | Mar 13 23:44 |
| trmanco | ah ok | Mar 13 23:44 |
| balzac | 23:50 <@schestowitz> Canonical takes the bait IMHO | Mar 13 23:45 |
| balzac | Redhat too, wouldn't you say? | Mar 13 23:45 |
| balzac | It's as if they're both either ignorant, or afraid MS silverlie is going to catch on as a format, and they don't want to be incompatible with the "next flash" | Mar 13 23:46 |
| schestowitz | I have good /. karma | Mar 13 23:49 |
| schestowitz | I start at almost 5, I think. | Mar 13 23:49 |
| schestowitz | balzac: not quite | Mar 13 23:49 |
| schestowitz | I hear from Red Hat people | Mar 13 23:49 |
| schestowitz | [H]omer_ has 'em scouring his site | Mar 13 23:50 |
| schestowitz | They still study with concern | Mar 13 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Same with RMS AFAIK | Mar 13 23:50 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : what would happen if Microsoft go bankrupt? | Mar 13 23:50 |
| schestowitz | They probably just don't want to: 1) alientate Novell | Mar 13 23:50 |
| schestowitz | 2) leave spoiled users stranded | Mar 13 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Some people won't understand "there's a patent issue" or "it's not good to adopt .NET" | Mar 13 23:51 |
| schestowitz | They just "want things to work" | Mar 13 23:51 |
| schestowitz | Linus Torvalds mentality | Mar 13 23:51 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: big feast | Mar 13 23:51 |
| schestowitz | But they'd get govt protection first | Mar 13 23:51 |
| schestowitz | It's a corrupt government there | Mar 13 23:51 |
| schestowitz | They also gave SGI a lieline | Mar 13 23:51 |
| schestowitz | Formerly Silicon Graphics | Mar 13 23:51 |
| schestowitz | And Microsoft is trying to pry people's medical data off them | Mar 13 23:51 |
| schestowitz | For this reason | Mar 13 23:52 |
| schestowitz | No Microsoft=medical mess | Mar 13 23:52 |
| schestowitz | They create entanglements in he system | Mar 13 23:52 |
| schestowitz | BTW, just got this nice mail: | Mar 13 23:52 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft killed OpenGL on windows with their implementation | Mar 13 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Re: http://slashdot.org/comment... | Mar 13 23:52 |
| schestowitz | "I do like Novell, because they give lots of drivers to the FOSS community, stuff that no other company likes to do, but as Roy has ably pointed out, they made some unnecessary mistakes in this deal with Microsoft. I think that as time goes by, more and more people will see the wisdom of many of Roy's criticisms of Novell, particularly as a result of this deal." | Mar 13 23:52 |
| schestowitz | "We must hold up the mirror to our own community and see the mistakes that we have made, and Roy's efforts in this regard are a great service to the community. And I do notice that there are less and less of the comments these days denigrating Roy's work and more and more people are taking him seriously. " | Mar 13 23:52 |
| schestowitz | "I think that this story shifts just that much more weight over to Roy's side regarding the questionable wisdom of the Novell - Microsoft deal. " | Mar 13 23:52 |
| schestowitz | This was actually sent to a group | Mar 13 23:52 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, that was seen before the baby bastard called Vista got emitted from mothership's belly | Mar 13 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Something about implementation as abstraction under DX10 | Mar 13 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Like virtualisation in a way... or emulation... to use analogies. | Mar 13 23:54 |
| schestowitz | This discourages game developers who might *GASP* choose OpenGL, which works in other platforms | Mar 13 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Look at DirectX material in BN | Mar 13 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft deliberately deviated | Mar 13 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Because they are anti-competitive shameless monsters | Mar 13 23:55 |
| schestowitz | OpenGL works on other platfforms? | Mar 13 23:55 |
| schestowitz | "That's good for the consumer but bad for us. Let's sabotage that..." | Mar 13 23:55 |
| _Hicham_ | even though DX9 was eating the market | Mar 13 23:56 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: start here: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:... | Mar 13 23:56 |
| schestowitz | I gave many references | Mar 13 23:56 |
| schestowitz | It's more difficult to refute when I don't throw statements out in the air. | Mar 13 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Footnotes, refs, corss-citations for context, etc. | Mar 13 23:57 |
| schestowitz | BN turned into quite a project with tens of thousands of external links and hundreds of courts exhibits | Mar 13 23:57 |
| schestowitz | *Court | Mar 13 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Watch the National Debt from the Command Line < http://www.linuxjournal.com/vid... > Blob required. | Mar 13 23:59 |
