To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| schestowitz | Sutor.. Moody.... | Mar 16 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Balrog_ | that you're stuck in school and won't finish anytime soon | Mar 16 00:00 |
| balzac | But when the time is appropriate, there they are | Mar 16 00:00 |
| Balrog_ | something like that | Mar 16 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Rarely will you see them adding the title/s | Mar 16 00:00 |
| schestowitz | It takes more to be humble than it is not to be. | Mar 16 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: trols say I chopped off my penis too | Mar 16 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Does it mean you should believe them? | Mar 16 00:00 |
| Balrog_ | no, I don't | Mar 16 00:01 |
| Balrog_ | you can't always (easily) identify trolls though | Mar 16 00:01 |
| schestowitz | There's something paradoxical here. | Mar 16 00:01 |
| schestowitz | You say "the trolls say X" | Mar 16 00:01 |
| schestowitz | So you do acknowledge they are trolls, some of whom on Microsoft's payroll | Mar 16 00:02 |
| schestowitz | And then you put forth their libellous statements | Mar 16 00:02 |
| Balrog_ | because I already heard the truth | Mar 16 00:02 |
| schestowitz | They have enough new lies they can make up | Mar 16 00:02 |
| schestowitz | It's not as though they'll run out | Mar 16 00:02 |
| schestowitz | "She's just a paralegal" | Mar 16 00:03 |
| schestowitz | "He has a long beard" | Mar 16 00:03 |
| *balzac sips courvoisier | Mar 16 00:03 | |
| schestowitz | "He inhaled" | Mar 16 00:03 |
| schestowitz | etc etc | Mar 16 00:03 |
| Balrog_ | once you discredit the trolls on several points, you have totally discredited them | Mar 16 00:04 |
| balzac | Balrog_: there's a whole industry based in yellow-journalism | Mar 16 00:05 |
| balzac | you've fully discredited them among the legitimate publications, but the yellow journalism industry keeps chugging along, with Rupert Murdoch at the helm. | Mar 16 00:05 |
| Balrog_ | heh yeah. | Mar 16 00:06 |
| balzac | And Murdoch keeps aquiring trusted brands and corrupting them | Mar 16 00:06 |
| Balrog_ | he ruined myspace | Mar 16 00:06 |
| Balrog_ | few of my friends use it anymore | Mar 16 00:06 |
| balzac | so people keep getting fooled by yellow journalists who shouldn't be published by any self-respecting publication. | Mar 16 00:06 |
| balzac | The most important thing to do is to aim high, at the ones who give cover to their character-assassin foot-soldiers | Mar 16 00:07 |
| MinceR | gn | Mar 16 00:07 |
| balzac | Like the cartoonist from the NY Post - sure, go after the cartoonist, but focus mainly on the editor, and the owner(s) | Mar 16 00:07 |
| balzac | cya MinceR | Mar 16 00:08 |
| balzac | You've got to drive down the trust in the brand which is lending legitimacy to the yellow journalist | Mar 16 00:08 |
| balzac | Murdoch buys Wall St Journal - now it's toilet paper. | Mar 16 00:08 |
| balzac | Supposing Murdoch bought NY Times, it's toilet paper. Or blankets for the homeless, no longer fit for reading. (Not that it's worthwhile as it is) | Mar 16 00:09 |
| balzac | That's the appropriate kind of retaliation for yellow journalists. | Mar 16 00:10 |
| balzac | Roy hits IDG and others quite often. That's the name of the game. | Mar 16 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Ms fanboy Stuart J. Johnston writes: Microsoft Still Has Eyes for Yahoo < http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/... > | Mar 16 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: IDG is just a shell owned by IDC | Mar 16 00:11 |
| schestowitz | the International Disinformation Group | Mar 16 00:11 |
| schestowitz | 'Microsoft's' Gavin Clarke is now promoting Microsoft dumpage: http://www.channelregister.co... The Microsoft-Register deal poisoned a once-good publication | Mar 16 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Even Ashlee Vance, who covered Linux there, ran away | Mar 16 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Lucy Sharrif too | Mar 16 00:13 |
| schestowitz | She hardly writes there now, if at all. | Mar 16 00:13 |
| schestowitz | The MS-dominated Register scared away the truth speakers. | Mar 16 00:13 |
| schestowitz | EEEE | Mar 16 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Embrace publication | Mar 16 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Change some people up at the top (extend) | Mar 16 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Have editors annoy Linus writers until they leave to Extinguish | Mar 16 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Like an Anaconda. | Mar 16 00:14 |
| schestowitz | BillG is handing out free 'drug' at Dalton State: http://www.northwestgeorgia.com/local... | Mar 16 00:16 |
| schestowitz | "First one's freeeee.." | Mar 16 00:16 |
| balzac | Oh jeez | Mar 16 00:18 |
| balzac | to think I once used MS word | Mar 16 00:18 |
| balzac | I even downloaded some training videos on it, which I never watched | Mar 16 00:18 |
| balzac | I can't stand that program | Mar 16 00:18 |
| _Hicham_ | word is sluggish | Mar 16 00:19 |
| balzac | MS software is so bloated with features for obstructing users, it's going to be much more sluggish | Mar 16 00:20 |
| balzac | Software which serves another master, always checking to see if you're permitted to do this or that, maintaining interoperability with arcane specifications designed to break standards, obfuscate simple things. | Mar 16 00:21 |
| balzac | Microsoft Windows never serves the person, even when they hold the administrative credentials - the root account lies in Redmond. No windows user can claim to be their own administrator. | Mar 16 00:23 |
| balzac | Except for Gates, king of his horrible software castle, made from the dried tears and broken dreams of Microsoft users. | Mar 16 00:24 |
| balzac | Roy, I think you might consider pull-quoting some of this for BN. | Mar 16 00:24 |
| balzac | Put a little sauce on top of the the informative content. | Mar 16 00:25 |
| schestowitz | balzac: it's already being posted anyway | Mar 16 00:25 |
| schestowitz | The thing is, about Office... | Mar 16 00:25 |
| balzac | I know :) | Mar 16 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft MUST show you pay for SOMETHING | Mar 16 00:25 |
| schestowitz | So they bloat it up | Mar 16 00:25 |
| schestowitz | How else can they make a business proposition for $500 per seat | Mar 16 00:26 |
| schestowitz | "innovation" ... blah... "many features" | Mar 16 00:26 |
| schestowitz | [many... errr. bloat] | Mar 16 00:26 |
| schestowitz | Office 12 is a pig... 14 even worse | Mar 16 00:26 |
| schestowitz | You can stuff up a fat pig... until it had a heart disease. | Mar 16 00:27 |
| balzac | Microsoft treats their users like cattle - they dump various kinds of filler into the feed, soy pulp, corn mash, ground bone, sawdust, egg-shells, entrails and brains... | Mar 16 00:28 |
| balzac | anything, just meet that quota for volume | Mar 16 00:29 |
| balzac | proprietary software in general | Mar 16 00:29 |
| balzac | compare the size of photoshop vs gimp | Mar 16 00:29 |
| balzac | 3dsmax vs blender | Mar 16 00:29 |
| balzac | ms word vs abi word | Mar 16 00:29 |
| balzac | proprietary software vendors want you to think the hundreds of megs of useless data are worth the hundreds of dollars | Mar 16 00:30 |
| schestowitz | They have to keep programmers busy and users 'upgrading' (buying) | Mar 16 00:34 |
| schestowitz | It's the planned obsolescence theory | Mar 16 00:34 |
| balzac | yep | Mar 16 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Similar theory regarding eBay | Mar 16 00:34 |
| schestowitz | You can't have them sit around | Mar 16 00:34 |
| balzac | so they break things to force the necessity to upgrade | Mar 16 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Give them something potentially useless to do | Mar 16 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Pile up the megs | Mar 16 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Fill up the menus | Mar 16 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Never mind if this gets buggy and more confusing. | Mar 16 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: "things" = formats | Mar 16 00:35 |
| balzac | that's what you get from people who suffer cognitive dissonance | Mar 16 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Try opening a PS 6 file in PS 4 | Mar 16 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Or Office 2007 in Word 6 | Mar 16 00:35 |
| balzac | because they're unwilling to face the fact that they've become cognitive castrati | Mar 16 00:35 |
| schestowitz | They think they'll pay once | Mar 16 00:36 |
| balzac | subjugated to the egos of their executive class, lacking freedom of thought | Mar 16 00:36 |
| Balrog_ | PS ? | Mar 16 00:36 |
| schestowitz | "I can afford it," said ignorasmus | Mar 16 00:36 |
| Balrog_ | you mean photoshop? | Mar 16 00:36 |
| schestowitz | Word version x, Word version x+1, Word version x+2 | Mar 16 00:36 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes | Mar 16 00:36 |
| balzac | yep | Mar 16 00:36 |
| Balrog_ | Compatibility has been ok with Photoshop in recent versions | Mar 16 00:36 |
| Balrog_ | PS 6 and PS 4 are 90's era | Mar 16 00:36 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: I haven'vhcked | Mar 16 00:36 |
| Balrog_ | really going back | Mar 16 00:36 |
| schestowitz | I mess with it as a teenger | Mar 16 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Trial versions on CDs | Mar 16 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Trying to get people locked in and 'addicted;' | Mar 16 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Adobe does that too | Mar 16 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Even in schools | Mar 16 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Dumping addictionware | Mar 16 00:37 |
| Balrog_ | I see. I have friends who are graphics designers, and they give me stuff | Mar 16 00:37 |
| schestowitz | "Software molestation" | Mar 16 00:37 |
| Balrog_ | (that they don't use anymore) | Mar 16 00:37 |
| Balrog_ | PS has many features that they rely one | Mar 16 00:38 |
| Balrog_ | on * | Mar 16 00:38 |
| Balrog_ | like the adjustment layers | Mar 16 00:38 |
| schestowitz | Eric Lai : "Two ways to buy Microsoft Office 2007 for under $50" | Mar 16 00:39 |
| schestowitz | These are some of the IDG Microsoft boosters | Mar 16 00:39 |
| schestowitz | IDC pays their wage, from the money they earn from Microsoft and the MS ads in its sites | Mar 16 00:39 |
| schestowitz | SJVN is an odd one in the pack | Mar 16 00:39 |
| schestowitz | One lone Linux advocate (a 'pragmatist' sadly) among many shills | Mar 16 00:40 |
| schestowitz | Enderle shill still accuses Linux of 'stealing' from SCO: "TomTom 2: FOSS Copying SCO and Microsoft While Proving Steve Jobs ..." | Mar 16 00:41 |
| schestowitz | What does it take from a shill to do before he gets locked up or something? | Mar 16 00:41 |
| schestowitz | There is one thing which is lying | Mar 16 00:41 |
| schestowitz | Another is slander for money | Mar 16 00:41 |
| schestowitz | New York Times, United States: "Microsoft, with headquarters in Redmond, Wash., is one of several companies in the state laying off thousands of employees." | Mar 16 00:42 |
| balzac | Enderle, what a sad fellow | Mar 16 00:42 |
| schestowitz | It's more like tens of thousands. | Mar 16 00:43 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft 'hides' the temps, contracts, etc. | Mar 16 00:43 |
| schestowitz | balzac: he's well 'fed' by the Wintel press | Mar 16 00:43 |
| schestowitz | That's how it works | Mar 16 00:43 |
| schestowitz | Have lackeys like Rory from the BBC give them air time | Mar 16 00:43 |
| balzac | still, he clings to the crap from SCO, like a beetle, clinging to a piece of dung. | Mar 16 00:43 |
| schestowitz | Rory et al have lunch with Microsoft | Mar 16 00:43 |
| schestowitz | Enderle gets paid by them | Mar 16 00:43 |
| schestowitz | Mirosoft brings (weds) shillnalysts and lackeys reports whom it camandeers | Mar 16 00:44 |
| balzac | poor, poor Enderle | Mar 16 00:44 |
| schestowitz | The guy who mailed me earlier has MI5 connections | Mar 16 00:44 |
| schestowitz | It's funny that the Microsoft cult and those around it are getting so much attention | Mar 16 00:44 |
| balzac | hanging from the teat of the old sow. | Mar 16 00:44 |
| schestowitz | Perhaps the UK too realises the dangers of US corporate power corrupting and colonialising other countries. | Mar 16 00:45 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | Mar 16 00:49 | |
| schestowitz | Who's Going To Buy Palm? < http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/... > | Mar 16 00:49 |
| balzac | who cares? | Mar 16 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Some source asked abotu Microisof | Mar 16 00:49 |
| balzac | I hope they do | Mar 16 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Which would not make sense in this case. bad marriage | Mar 16 00:49 |
| balzac | Any marraige which includes Microsoft is a bad marraige. | Mar 16 00:50 |
| schestowitz | Don Reisinger -- what a troll | Mar 16 00:50 |
| balzac | I'm looking forward to buying a G1 | Mar 16 00:50 |
| schestowitz | Never mind his latest trollticle | Mar 16 00:50 |
| balzac | I think I'll wait two more weeks | Mar 16 00:50 |
| schestowitz | The guy is a trolling motor | Mar 16 00:50 |
| balzac | trollticle heheh | Mar 16 00:50 |
| balzac | shillnalysts | Mar 16 00:50 |
| balzac | it's nice to contract words in order to get the point across succintly | Mar 16 00:51 |
| balzac | like repugnicans or repiglicans | Mar 16 00:51 |
| balzac | I'm enjoying XFCE so far | Mar 16 00:52 |
| schestowitz | It's good. I used it many years ago. | Mar 16 00:55 |
| schestowitz | Oh! and I _loved_ Englisghtnment. | Mar 16 00:55 |
| schestowitz | It stopped when I adopted SUSE in 2003 | Mar 16 00:55 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: when did you quit using suse? | Mar 16 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Why is this < http://www.makelinux.net/kerne... > making the news all of a sudden, even in Slashdot? It's very old. | Mar 16 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: 2007ish | Mar 16 00:56 |
| balzac | I can't get those strippers out of my mind | Mar 16 01:10 |
| balzac | and I don't want to | Mar 16 01:10 |
| balzac | A good stripper or two can really warm a the cockles. | Mar 16 01:11 |
| balzac | -a | Mar 16 01:11 |
| schestowitz | ->>#boycottnovell-social | Mar 16 01:13 |
| schestowitz | join #boycottnovell-social | Mar 16 01:13 |
| balzac | sorry | Mar 16 01:14 |
| *schestowitz sets up a channel for other topcis | Mar 16 01:18 | |
| schestowitz | come and join | Mar 16 01:18 |
| schestowitz | lessign can be boring sometimes... :-( http://www.youtube.com/watc... | Mar 16 01:19 |
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| Who's going to buy Palm? Ha! Who's going to buy M$FT? | Mar 16 02:50 | |
| M$ does not have long term credibility. No one wants a stock in their portfolio from a company that won't last 20 years. | Mar 16 02:51 | |
| Is there anyone who thinks M$ will be here 20 years from now? 5 years? Not me. | Mar 16 02:51 | |
| I know Google will be here five years from now, and it's a good bet for growth. | Mar 16 02:52 | |
| 20 years from now, Google will be around and the stock will have grown better than inflation as the company grows. That's the kind of thing people want when they retire. | Mar 16 02:53 | |
| trolls, they just get new nyms. http://slashdot.org/~twit... | Mar 16 02:55 | |
| LOL -> Microsoft Word is the word processing software that PC Magazine called “one of the strongest and most intelligent programs ever written.” | Mar 16 02:56 | |
| You don't want to know what the users say about it. | Mar 16 02:56 | |
| "Change=confusion and for technical reasons changing domain is parctically impossible" | Mar 16 02:59 | |
| Not necessarily. Division by topic is good. You can set up a new site for new topics. By the magic of the web, there's no practical difference in linking. When Novell goes under for good, you can archive BN and link to it as you see fit from whatever your new interests and site is. | Mar 16 02:59 | |
| Of course, when M$ and Novell are gone there will be less trouble to write about. | Mar 16 03:00 | |
| M$ Impersonator? Like a reverse Barkto? It would serve M$ right but I don't think that kind of info war is productive. | Mar 16 03:01 | |
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| zer0c00l | Indian prime minister office moves to gnu/linux based email solution http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@list... | Mar 16 04:20 |
| zer0c00l | lost lot of mails because of M$ exchange | Mar 16 04:20 |
| zer0c00l | here is the online link http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India... | Mar 16 04:40 |
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| power outages bring me down. | Mar 16 04:58 | |
| Entergy sucks. | Mar 16 04:58 | |
| zer0c00l | twitter: did u read http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/P... | Mar 16 04:58 |
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| thanks zer0, that one has a happy ending. | Mar 16 05:15 | |
| boot to Outlook in favor of a normal email system. | Mar 16 05:16 | |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Mar 16 08:15 |
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| schestowitz | zer0c00l: see http://www.siliconindia.com/showne... and http://www.livemint.com/2009/03/132205... | Mar 16 08:17 |
| *zer0c00l looks | Mar 16 08:17 | |
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| zer0c00l | bad , they are not even leaving small companies | Mar 16 08:20 |
| zer0c00l | bizspark,dreamspark and lot of sparks to set fire on innovation and competitors | Mar 16 08:22 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz: are you going to write on these things?if so this would be the suitable title "Microsoft targets to kill young talents and education in india" | Mar 16 08:25 |
| zer0c00l | too bad now their eye is on india | Mar 16 08:26 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I'll write about the topic | Mar 16 08:28 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz:http://www.lkadvani.in/eng/content... read from the last 4th point | Mar 16 08:29 |
| zer0c00l | he is the major opposition leader | Mar 16 08:30 |
| zer0c00l | i dont like that leader personally | Mar 16 08:30 |
| schestowitz | I've just been told that "Major Indian political parties support open source and open standards" | Mar 16 08:31 |
| zer0c00l | yeah | Mar 16 08:32 |
| zer0c00l | :-) | Mar 16 08:32 |
| zer0c00l | you should have read http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/In... | Mar 16 08:32 |
| schestowitz | Oddly, enough, someone from Red Hat mailed me this | Mar 16 08:32 |
| schestowitz | I don't speak to Red Hat people. | Mar 16 08:32 |
| zer0c00l | :-) | Mar 16 08:33 |
| zer0c00l | why so? | Mar 16 08:33 |
| schestowitz | No idea | Mar 16 08:33 |
| zer0c00l | :-) | Mar 16 08:33 |
| *zer0c00l smiles | Mar 16 08:33 | |
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| MinceR | r4wr | Mar 16 09:15 |
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| oiaohm | Today I hate MS with a defined hell. | Mar 16 10:39 |
| oiaohm | Had to hotfix a firewire problem in XP SP3. | Mar 16 10:39 |
| oiaohm | Not only do you have to give MS an email address to download the hotfix. As well the downloaded file required a password so it extracts. | Mar 16 10:40 |
| oiaohm | Lot of messing about. | Mar 16 10:40 |
| MinceR | messing is what they do | Mar 16 10:40 |
| oiaohm | Thinking its a defect in SP3 that causes the problem in the first place that you can download without the crap. | Mar 16 10:41 |
| oiaohm | Today I don't care who wins. Linux Reactos... Basically anyone bar MS. | Mar 16 10:42 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I have many MS posts to do today | Mar 16 10:42 |
| schestowitz | Check out BN for details. I have 4 more posts, maybe 5 | Mar 16 10:43 |
| schestowitz | The criminal feels cornered, so it misbehaves | Mar 16 10:43 |
| oiaohm | Gets better I found out where MS is road testing there .net OS. | Mar 16 10:43 |
| MinceR | where? | Mar 16 10:44 |
| oiaohm | http://www.windowsfordevices.... << In of all the warped places watches. | Mar 16 10:45 |
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| MinceR | pft | Mar 16 10:45 |
| zer0c00l | g2g | Mar 16 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: Microsoft also tested Singularity and WinFS... and SPOT watch... | Mar 16 10:57 |
| oiaohm | Spot design and Singularity design layout is very releated. | Mar 16 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Let have programmers forget about native code and code everything in .net | Mar 16 11:05 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is dead-end in Winfdows | Mar 16 11:07 |
| schestowitz | And Windows Mobile too | Mar 16 11:07 |
| schestowitz | So it branches into separate paths (Danger, Singularity, etc) | Mar 16 11:08 |
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| oiaohm | http://news.netcraft.com/archives... | Mar 16 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Getting interesting. MS is increasing it domian numbers by adding it own. | Mar 16 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Now qq.com is doing the same and could over take MS by end of year. | Mar 16 11:14 |
| schestowitz | I see... | Mar 16 11:21 |
| schestowitz | More pollution of information *and* more gaming of Netcraft | Mar 16 11:21 |
| oiaohm | qq.com will not tell anyone what there webservers are based on. | Mar 16 11:22 |
| oiaohm | So effectively they are building a bigger and bigger void of what the. | Mar 16 11:22 |
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| oiaohm | Really the qq.com case is a example how much one party can screw up numbers. | Mar 16 12:59 |
| schestowitz | Remember GoDaddy? | Mar 16 13:01 |
| oiaohm | GoDaddy was not out to completely destroy the numbers. | Mar 16 13:01 |
| oiaohm | They still showed what they were using. | Mar 16 13:01 |
| schestowitz | Well,, China is the next overload | Mar 16 13:02 |
| oiaohm | China using windows servers in that large of numbers I think not. | Mar 16 13:03 |
| oiaohm | BSD Linux Solarias.... We have no clue at what is hidding in qq.com numbers. | Mar 16 13:03 |
| schestowitz | If it's Windows, then it's like counterfeited | Mar 16 13:25 |
| oiaohm | Also not off the cards. | Mar 16 13:27 |
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| Eruaran | hello | Mar 16 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Hi Eruaran | Mar 16 13:52 |
| Eruaran | hi | Mar 16 13:52 |
| schestowitz | Hi Eruaran | Mar 16 13:52 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: I'm working on the India article | Mar 16 13:53 |
| Eruaran | howde\h | Mar 16 13:53 |
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| zer0c00l | schestowitz:ok | Mar 16 14:12 |
| zer0c00l | :-) | Mar 16 14:12 |
| zer0c00l | lot of posts today :-) | Mar 16 14:13 |
| zer0c00l | It should be a busy day for you :-) | Mar 16 14:13 |
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| schestowitz | Nvidia Spent $43.6 Million to Replace Faulty Graphic Chips < http://www.pcworld.com/article... > | Mar 16 14:35 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's very latest "open source" invasions: http://boycottnovell.com/2009... | Mar 16 14:36 |
| schestowitz | The Obama cabinet already drowns in some embarrassment: http://www.pcworld.com/article/161266/fed... | Mar 16 14:38 |
| zer0c00l | bn? | Mar 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 16 14:43 |
| schestowitz | <zer0c00l> got your mail :-) great post | Mar 16 14:43 |
| schestowitz | <zer0c00l> schestowitz: hydrabad is in andrapradesh | Mar 16 14:43 |
| schestowitz | <zer0c00l> that thing needs to be changed | Mar 16 14:43 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> in #bn | Mar 16 14:43 |
| schestowitz | <zer0c00l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki... | Mar 16 14:43 |
| schestowitz | I'll post it later | Mar 16 14:43 |
| schestowitz | Too many posts make an overload for readers | Mar 16 14:44 |
| zer0c00l | k | Mar 16 14:44 |
| schestowitz | I made 10 this morning | Mar 16 14:44 |
| zer0c00l | yeah | Mar 16 14:44 |
| schestowitz | I haven't checked spelling and all. | Mar 16 14:44 |
| zer0c00l | will proof read and correct any spelling /logical errors | Mar 16 14:44 |
| schestowitz | brb (busy) | Mar 16 14:44 |
| zer0c00l | and send u by mail | Mar 16 14:44 |
| zer0c00l | ok | Mar 16 14:44 |
| schestowitz | OK, not in-line though. Corrections separate from original | Mar 16 14:45 |
| schestowitz | Thanks a lot! | Mar 16 14:45 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi all | Mar 16 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Mar 16 15:01 |
| schestowitz | It's hot here today. | Mar 16 15:01 |
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| _Hicham_ | Roy : really? | Mar 16 15:13 |
| _Hicham_ | in the UK? | Mar 16 15:13 |
| _Hicham_ | great | Mar 16 15:13 |
| _Hicham_ | i m gonna come there then | Mar 16 15:13 |
| _Hicham_ | :D | Mar 16 15:13 |
| *zer0c00l has proof readed the mail | Mar 16 15:16 | |
| *zer0c00l worries about his bad english and writing style | Mar 16 15:17 | |
| zer0c00l | :P | Mar 16 15:17 |
| schestowitz | I see you use bold fonts | Mar 16 15:17 |
| schestowitz | Thanks. | Mar 16 15:17 |
| zer0c00l | :( | Mar 16 15:19 |
| zer0c00l | :P | Mar 16 15:19 |
| *schestowitz mends draft | Mar 16 15:19 | |
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| schestowitz | OK done, but I'll need to brush it up later. | Mar 16 15:25 |
| schestowitz | BTW zer0c00l, #boycottnovell-social is now registered as well (for less on-topic things) | Mar 16 15:26 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : I screwed up my ubuntu installation yesterday | Mar 16 15:26 |
| schestowitz | Do you need to buy it again? | Mar 16 15:26 |
| _Hicham_ | Roy : buy what? | Mar 16 15:27 |
| zer0c00l | _Hicham_ : try debian | Mar 16 15:28 |
| zer0c00l | :-) | Mar 16 15:28 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu. Can you not restore the old state? Define "screwed up" | Mar 16 15:28 |
| _Hicham_ | In fact, i tried a crazy thing : upgrade from Ubuntu to Debian Sid | Mar 16 15:29 |
| _Hicham_ | finshed with unusable system | Mar 16 15:29 |
| _Hicham_ | i had to reformat | Mar 16 15:29 |
| _Hicham_ | now im running debian lenny | Mar 16 15:29 |
| _Hicham_ | it has faster bootup | Mar 16 15:30 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what i remarked | Mar 16 15:30 |
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| schestowitz | "... upgrade from Ubuntu to Debian Sid ..." | Mar 16 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Wha?? | Mar 16 15:30 |
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| _Hicham_ | yes | Mar 16 15:31 |
| _Hicham_ | that was i was trying to do | Mar 16 15:31 |
| _Hicham_ | crazy | Mar 16 15:31 |
| schestowitz | So you proper screwed it. It didn't screw itself up. | Mar 16 15:32 |
| schestowitz | These are not very binary compatible | Mar 16 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Maybe you could do CentOS and Red Hat, but they are merely identical, like... Omega and Fedora... or Mint and Ubuntu even. | Mar 16 15:33 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu modified a lot of things from Debian | Mar 16 15:34 |
| schestowitz | What a good idea: Give a presentation? Use a LiveCD! < http://maratux.blogspot.com/200... > | Mar 16 15:34 |
| schestowitz | South America sees the light: Ecuador's Internal Revenue Service Leverages Red Hat Solutions < http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.s... News/2223073/ > | Mar 16 15:36 |
| schestowitz | The seven best Linux Foundation contest videos < http://blogs.computerworld.com/the_sev... > | Mar 16 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | This one makes Linux look ugly: http://video.linux-foundation... | Mar 16 15:46 |
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| Eruaran | darn dialup speed | Mar 16 15:51 |
| Eruaran | I'm over my data limit | Mar 16 15:51 |
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| Omar87 | Hey all! | Mar 16 15:57 |
| schestowitz | <Hi. | Mar 16 15:58 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: This seems like a hot week for you! Lot's of stuff to talk about, lots of ideas, lots articles, eh? :) | Mar 16 15:59 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I post a video now | Mar 16 15:59 |
| Omar87 | Great | Mar 16 15:59 |
| schestowitz | Posted. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/... | Mar 16 16:10 |
| schestowitz | Nto so funny how they totally disregard non-kernel devs | Mar 16 16:10 |
| schestowitz | I'd like to see a submission to this contest that sticks RMS up to the LF | Mar 16 16:10 |
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| tessier_ | LF? | Mar 16 16:29 |
| zer0c00l | Linux foundation ? | Mar 16 16:30 |
| Balrog | anyone here? | Mar 16 16:34 |
| Balrog | can you comment on this? | Mar 16 16:34 |
| Balrog | Stallman's major contribution to the domain is the Marxist economic | Mar 16 16:34 |
| Balrog | model behind GPL, which works for small stuff and small pockets of the | Mar 16 16:34 |
| Balrog | real world like the Linux user base, but cannot work in a whole real | Mar 16 16:34 |
| Balrog | world where real people need to have day jobs that pay their mortgages | Mar 16 16:34 |
| Balrog | and grocery bills, and where real businesses are willing to pay real | Mar 16 16:34 |
| Balrog | money for products that meet their needs. | Mar 16 16:34 |
| Balrog | << quote | Mar 16 16:34 |
| Balrog | (tessier or zer0c00l or schestowitz or anyone) | Mar 16 16:36 |
| _Hicham_ | Balrog : Open Source Model is not fixed | Mar 16 16:36 |
| schestowitz | This assumes that people are paid only for development | Mar 16 16:37 |
| schestowitz | Which they can be, even for GPL code | Mar 16 16:37 |
| schestowitz | Say you want me to implement some features for you -- or several companies do -- then they fund development | Mar 16 16:37 |
| schestowitz | They also reduces duplication | Mar 16 16:37 |
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| schestowitz | Watch Apache | Mar 16 16:37 |
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| schestowitz | Selling Free Software < http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/... > | Mar 16 16:38 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Mar 16 16:38 |
| *schestowitz was paid in the past to write GPL-licensed code | Mar 16 16:38 | |
| _Hicham_ | we can sell free software | Mar 16 16:38 |
| _Hicham_ | the freedom doesn't refer to freedom in price | Mar 16 16:39 |
| _Hicham_ | it is freedom to use | Mar 16 16:39 |
| Balrog | but someone can redistribute it without charging ... (that would be the argument against it) | Mar 16 16:39 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u say about that Roy? | Mar 16 16:40 |
| schestowitz | New version of i3 < http://i3.zekjur.net/ > has just been released. | Mar 16 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: some people will pay for the service or convenience | Mar 16 16:41 |
| schestowitz | See how many people choose Red Hat over CentOS | Mar 16 16:42 |
| zer0c00l | Balrog:you got your money anyway | Mar 16 16:42 |
| schestowitz | There is more to it than just code | Mar 16 16:42 |
| zer0c00l | Balrog:In indian constitution any one can go to a court and defend himself, but most people in india pay a lot to lawyer to defend them in court | Mar 16 16:43 |
| schestowitz | In the hacker culture you reuse lots of code and modify or merge to fit your needs, then contribute patches. So the cost of development is low and distribution. | Mar 16 16:43 |
| zer0c00l | it works like a service | Mar 16 16:43 |
| schestowitz | (buted | Mar 16 16:43 |
| schestowitz | Right now I listen to 6GB of legally distributed music I got from torrent for example (SXSW 2009). I get to know bands I never heard of before. | Mar 16 16:44 |
| schestowitz | So rather than have the Britneys and Sinatras of whatever (fat moguls paying a dime to culture monopolists) you distribute the market widely, then pay for concerts, t-shits,etc. | Mar 16 16:45 |
| Balrog | zer0c00l: then the argument becomes 'why GPL and not something less restrictive' | Mar 16 16:45 |
| schestowitz | Very VERY bad to RIAA... very good to the random singer in town... people listen to it instead of be glued to Superbowl-like phenomena | Mar 16 16:45 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: human nature | Mar 16 16:46 |
| Balrog | which is? | Mar 16 16:46 |
| zer0c00l | charging for each copies of software(product) is unethical, lets say company A has manufactured a television, the cost for manufacturing the second Television set is more or less equal to the next one...But think of software whats the cost to make the second copy? | Mar 16 16:46 |
| zer0c00l | *first one | Mar 16 16:47 |
| _Hicham_ | the economy is going toward services | Mar 16 16:47 |
| Balrog | people argue that it costs to write the software in the first place (developer time) | Mar 16 16:47 |
| _Hicham_ | not products | Mar 16 16:47 |
| *zer0c00l agrees with _Hicham_ | Mar 16 16:47 | |
| _Hicham_ | writing code is a platform for services | Mar 16 16:48 |
| _Hicham_ | not a product | Mar 16 16:48 |
| schestowitz | Wow. "AT Internet Institute has provided some interesting data looking into the evolution of web traffic. So far growth is slow this year." http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009... | Mar 16 16:48 |
| _Hicham_ | it is like opening a bank | Mar 16 16:48 |
| schestowitz | ""Web traffic growth continued to slow down in 2008, for an equivalent number of websites," the report from AT says. | Mar 16 16:49 |
| _Hicham_ | u have to find the building and do all the stuff to serve people | Mar 16 16:49 |
| zer0c00l | Let say company A releases a software, it has some bugs , it fixes that bugs and added few features to the product and releases it, and ask the customer to pay the same amount | Mar 16 16:49 |
| zer0c00l | *adds | Mar 16 16:49 |
| Balrog | and....? | Mar 16 16:51 |
| _Hicham_ | Balrog : and u r doing a service then | Mar 16 16:52 |
| zer0c00l | look @ M$'s "windows live one care" :their operating system is insecure and prone to attacks and viruses, to protect from these threats which are caused my the mistake of M$, the customer has to pay them | Mar 16 16:52 |
| zer0c00l | *by | Mar 16 16:52 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Mar 16 16:52 |
| Balrog | so charging for new features is ok? .... | Mar 16 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: some do it | Mar 16 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Or for installing them if it's hard | Mar 16 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Picture this.. | Mar 16 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Do you know how many -- say... singers wants a Web sites? Well, they are not always technical people | Mar 16 17:02 |
| schestowitz | So here they invite you to take commodity tools like Apache and WordPress and set them up | Mar 16 17:02 |
| Balrog | but then what about home users? ... | Mar 16 17:02 |
| schestowitz | You swap some code and hacks, plugins, etc. | Mar 16 17:02 |
| schestowitz | You migth also offer added value to the singer | Mar 16 17:02 |
| schestowitz | Like some code for managing oggs | Mar 16 17:02 |
| schestowitz | You say, "i'll charge you less if you allow it to be GPL" | Mar 16 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Not that they would mind anyway, not much of the time anyway | Mar 16 17:03 |
| schestowitz | So here you are being paid to make software you own and share with the same people who gave you code | Mar 16 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: what do you mean by home users? | Mar 16 17:04 |
| Balrog | like the majority of windows users | Mar 16 17:04 |
| schestowitz | Set them up with a Fedora box and programs they need | Mar 16 17:04 |
| schestowitz | They don't always know what Linux is | Mar 16 17:04 |
| schestowitz | I spoke to a friend about it yesterday | Mar 16 17:04 |
| schestowitz | He didn't know about Wubi, so I told him. | Mar 16 17:04 |
| schestowitz | He works in security, so he isn't tech-savvy, but he'll try it | Mar 16 17:04 |
| schestowitz | A lot more money (=time) is spent maintaining and supporting existing systems than acquiring them | Mar 16 17:05 |
| schestowitz | IBM and Intel develop Linux so that they can sell harsware | Mar 16 17:05 |
| schestowitz | Same thing... hardware ~= manufacturing 'service' | Mar 16 17:06 |
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| Balrog | what about the 'Marxist' argument? | Mar 16 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | Daemonisation by connotation | Mar 16 17:10 |
| schestowitz | His appearance is their excuse | Mar 16 17:10 |
| schestowitz | I think Stallman is more of a libertarian/anarchist than a 'communist' | Mar 16 17:11 |
| Balrog | >> Marxist economic | Mar 16 17:12 |
| Balrog | > model behind GPL | Mar 16 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Remember that Marxism promotes ownership by the government and I don't think RMS is a big fan of overencompassing government | Mar 16 17:12 |
| Balrog | << quite | Mar 16 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Marxist ecnomy | Mar 16 17:12 |
| Balrog | quiote * | Mar 16 17:12 |
| schestowitz | I'm not too familiar with it | Mar 16 17:12 |
| Balrog | quote ** | Mar 16 17:12 |
| schestowitz | I think it's the whole "one according to his ability" | Mar 16 17:12 |
| schestowitz | But that's not the same | Mar 16 17:12 |
| schestowitz | As code | Mar 16 17:12 |
| Balrog | yes, that's the part I hear | Mar 16 17:12 |
| schestowitz | GPL = science | Mar 16 17:12 |
| schestowitz | I work with my colleagues to produce a good machine | Mar 16 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Not socialism either. | Mar 16 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Just plain science. More like Newton. | Mar 16 17:13 |
| Balrog | The basic premise of Marxism, as stated by its early promoters, was "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." In practice, this devolves down to something closer to "Put in as little as possible, and take out as much as possible." Capitalists go at it the same way, but because what you can take out is closely coupled to how much you put in, people are motivated to put more into the system, thereby raising the wealth o | Mar 16 17:13 |
| Balrog | << quote | Mar 16 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Extreme capitalism is the issue | Mar 16 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Not capita | Mar 16 17:14 |
| schestowitz | It becomes destructive | Mar 16 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Intellecutuals who criticise this are many | Mar 16 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Are the Nobel-winning economists "Marxist" for slamming the patent system? | Mar 16 17:15 |
| tessier_ | Not at all. | Mar 16 17:15 |
| schestowitz | It's a lot of -- as one person calls it -- the consent system, IIRC | Mar 16 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Let's all pretend that patents=innocation | Mar 16 17:15 |
| schestowitz | *innovation | Mar 16 17:15 |
| tessier_ | Marxism wasn't all wrong. Just mostly wrong. | Mar 16 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Then we'll have an orgy of this assumption and write glorious papers to defend it | Mar 16 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Those who oppose it will be ridiculed | Mar 16 17:16 |
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