10.13.08

^{Gemini version available ♊︎}

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 12th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:16 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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cj	hmm?	Oct 12 00:46
cj	that sounds pretty bad. have you made a point of telling someone who can do something about it? are you asking me to put you in contact with someone closer to the issue than me?	Oct 12 00:48
schestowitz	No, they know about it	Oct 12 00:49
schestowitz	.FOSS people were shown the evidence too.	Oct 12 00:49
cj	thanks for bringing it to my attention.	Oct 12 00:49
schestowitz	There are worse stories about what Microsoft did in India. The MD was sacked/ran away, reportedly due to all those fiascos. It’s still a mess in Microsoft India, according to mini-microsoft.	Oct 12 00:54
cj	MD?	Oct 12 01:20
MinceR	gn	Oct 12 01:38
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twitter	Hello all, I’m back from a nice little trip.	Oct 12 03:02
twitter	On my trip I learned that a friend had been modbombed for giving modpoints to my comments on Slashdot.	Oct 12 03:03
twitter	He had never mentioned this on Slashdot and described it as “twitter is poison”	Oct 12 03:04
twitter	Either my communications with him had been intercepted, someone at Slashdot does not like twitter, or Slashdot is compromised again.	Oct 12 03:05
twitter	Thought I’d share that before going to bed. See you all in the morning.	Oct 12 03:06
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schestowitz	OT: http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/1… “According to some preliminary studies, the loss of forest cover and other environmental degradations are costing the world economy between two and five trillion dollars annually.”	Oct 12 07:25
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pombat42	Do you feel global warming is a real, man made situation, a natural cycle or a combination of the two?	Oct 12 07:58
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schestowitz	http://www.heise.de/english/newstic… “More worrying are the problems currently reported from Palm Beach County, where voting machines supplied by Sequoia Voting Systems acted strangely during various ballot counts.”	Oct 12 08:22
schestowitz	pombat42: for a scientific fact, emission /do/ help the warming.	Oct 12 08:23
pombat42	sure. but what about things like the little ice age circa 1700 or so. No Co2 back then	Oct 12 08:29
schestowitz	That’s separate from contribution by men	Oct 12 08:31
pombat42	of course, but it gives credence to the cyclic theory IOW that these things happen	Oct 12 08:31
schestowitz	Think along the lines of blaming /not/ smoking for the death of a victim of lung cancer, who was also a smoker.. saying something like “it could have happened even without smoking.”	Oct 12 08:33
pombat42	smoking is a choice. a poor one. the laws of nature are still mostly unexplained by science	Oct 12 08:34
schestowitz	I since there will be another 2000-like scandal in this election because of voting machines.	Oct 12 08:34
pombat42	re:voting. all the crooked voting machines can not make up for the morons pulling the levers	Oct 12 08:34
schestowitz	I’m no expert in climatic changes, but I know that oil companies paid many millions to throw disinformation into the pool and ‘add balance.’	Oct 12 08:35
schestowitz	See this video: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netroots_…	Oct 12 08:35
pombat42	of course. they make money selling oil. they make far more selling foreign oil	Oct 12 08:35
pombat42	how come when a US oil rig goes south due to a hurricane the price of oil skyrockets but yet when a foreign oil producing country, like Iraq, is invaded	Oct 12 08:36
pombat42	oil prices remain more or less stable?	Oct 12 08:36
pombat42	seems like USA is better off depending on foreign oil (i don’t believe that but a point can be made)	Oct 12 08:37
schestowitz	Puts it in debt..	Oct 12 08:38
pombat42	IMHO the whole system is completely corrupt	Oct 12 08:40
schestowitz	Yes, you must assume this coming in	Oct 12 08:41
pombat42	seriously. who am I going to vote for? McCain, who is a career pol and part of the problem or Obama who doesn’t seem to have a clue?	Oct 12 08:42
pombat42	Palin and Biden say more than the those two. I like both of them, but for different reasons	Oct 12 08:43
pombat42	Palin is rough around the edges, not connected with Washington. Biden is a family guy, not rich and seems to have some good things to say. still, no real choice here	Oct 12 08:44
pombat42	So where do I go?	Oct 12 08:44
schestowitz	Biden is the MPAA’s henchman.	Oct 12 08:45
schestowitz	On the Republicans’ side they control McCain. They hold both sides by the balls.	Oct 12 08:46
schestowitz	You still have choice.	Oct 12 08:46
schestowitz	Choose vanilla and lemon or lemon and vanilla.	Oct 12 08:46
pombat42	Of course. Bush is a puppet, and a moron to boot. I doubt McCain even knows what MPAA is…his sidemen tell him this stuff	Oct 12 08:47
pombat42	Vanilla…very funny !!!!	Oct 12 08:47
schestowitz	The illusion of choice… the corporate giants fund both parties (at the same time) and will therefore control them the same way afterwards.	Oct 12 08:47
pombat42	yep. And what is lobbying? legalized whores IMHO	Oct 12 08:47
schestowitz	McBush knows the $$ from the MPAA. He doesn’t need to understand what they do. He has ‘advisors’ to tell him what to say about them.	Oct 12 08:48
schestowitz	Guess how those ‘advisors’ are a$$igned?	Oct 12 08:48
trmanco	does anybody remember this? -> http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1073/…	Oct 12 08:48
pombat42	Bush is an oil man. Him and Cheny are tighlty connected with Haliburton. Guess who is making tons of money even in these tough times.	Oct 12 08:49
schestowitz	I saw that last year, trmanco	Oct 12 08:49
schestowitz	Very good. I still link to it sometimes.	Oct 12 08:49
pombat42	Example: why does the USA have to IMPORT Oil/Gasoline/fuel to run it’s military vehicles in Iraq, a country overflowing with oil…	Oct 12 08:50
trmanco	yes its old, but looks nice… just to bring up that M$ said that opengl was dead	Oct 12 08:50
schestowitz	It’s over a year old. No example of OGL3	Oct 12 08:50
schestowitz	Microsoft has a Slog against OpenGL.	Oct 12 08:51
schestowitz	They call it “War”.	Oct 12 08:51
pombat42	opengl is of interest to camers, few others even know what it is.	Oct 12 08:51
schestowitz	“Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in, “he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2.” Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition’s technology part of the mythology of the computer industry. We want to place selection pressure on those companies and individuals that show a genetic weakness for com	Oct 12 08:51
schestowitz	petitors’ technologies, to make the industry increasingly resistant to such unhealthy strains, over time.”	Oct 12 08:51
schestowitz	From Microsoft, internal document < http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/0…>	Oct 12 08:51
pombat42	the press are morons	Oct 12 08:51
pombat42	example? take a look at Ben Stein who admitted today on FoxNews that he lost a fortune the past few weeks	Oct 12 08:52
pombat42	and I like him	Oct 12 08:52
schestowitz	Why was that?	Oct 12 08:52
schestowitz	Well, why is this relevant? Many losta fortune.	Oct 12 08:52
pombat42	he invested poorly and didn’t anticipate the market	Oct 12 08:53
pombat42	yea, but he is an icon of the financial industry	Oct 12 08:53
schestowitz	I don’t watch Fox ‘News’, so I don’t know that Ben.	Oct 12 08:53
trmanco	lol	Oct 12 08:53
trmanco	Windows: innovative VTP technology (Virus Transfer	Oct 12 08:53
trmanco	Protocol)	Oct 12 08:53
trmanco	where did you get this from?	Oct 12 08:53
schestowitz	Made it up.	Oct 12 08:53
pombat42	huh?	Oct 12 08:54
trmanco	lol	Oct 12 08:55
trmanco	funny	Oct 12 08:55
pombat42	Huh?	Oct 12 08:56
trmanco	you better license that under the GPL before M$ steals your idea	Oct 12 08:57
schestowitz	Ideas can be stolen?	Oct 12 08:58
schestowitz	That’s like saying that spirit can be robbed.	Oct 12 08:58
pombat42	Why bother? Copyright it, patent it and make some real money. GPL? No way… if I have an idea I want to make money not deal with some nebulous script.	Oct 12 08:58
trmanco	well from M$ who knows	Oct 12 08:58
schestowitz	Myhrvold attitude: I AM a thinker! Yes! I am your God. You shall pay me for my thinking, $150 per word I utter.	Oct 12 08:59
trmanco	lol	Oct 12 08:59
schestowitz	Time at Microsoft messed with the man’s brain.	Oct 12 08:59
pombat42	and yet if they offered you 100 dollars per word you would take it. anyone would.	Oct 12 09:00
schestowitz	Time for the shock treatment. Must undo ego…	Oct 12 09:00
pombat42	I would	Oct 12 09:00
schestowitz	He doesn’t /take/ the money	Oct 12 09:01
schestowitz	he’s hunting for it.	Oct 12 09:01
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schestowitz	He threatens companies like Cisco and Verizon, IIRC.	Oct 12 09:01
schestowitz	Doe daring to have thought about the same ide…. errr… portfolio.	Oct 12 09:01
schestowitz	There can be a word for it: “knowledge terrorist”	Oct 12 09:02
pombat42	a more accurate word is nuts	Oct 12 09:02
schestowitz	Knowledge terrorist: a man or woman who terrified poor victims who dare think the same things.	Oct 12 09:02
pombat42	nut: a person who believes everyone is out to get him/her	Oct 12 09:03
schestowitz	So that’s the opposite role.	Oct 12 09:05
schestowitz	http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/infosphere/2009-show-down-… “If the company tries to file for everything they invent they spend a fortune on patent attorney fees and filing costs. If they don’t file then another company will “invent” the same thing and file and the original company can end up being threatened for patent infringement.”	Oct 12 09:05
schestowitz	That would make the ‘troll victim’ the ‘nut’… for a person who’s a software developer it must be no joy. COmpanies like facebook and Digg get sued by trolls for their success.	Oct 12 09:06
PetoKraus	schestowitz: no, no, that’s not terrorist	Oct 12 09:19
PetoKraus	terrorist would be the one who terrifies people with different thoughts.	Oct 12 09:19
PetoKraus	do’h, the crapbuntu wallpaper will still look like diarrhoea shit. literally	Oct 12 09:21
PetoKraus	http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/10/11/ahh-mu…	Oct 12 09:21
Eruaran	hello	Oct 12 09:35
PetoKraus	hello	Oct 12 09:36
Eruaran	Im thinking it might be time to try a new distro	Oct 12 09:36
Eruaran	Been looking at Sidux	Oct 12 09:37
schestowitz	PetoKraus: the wallpaper is OK	Oct 12 09:37
schestowitz	Some people really like these ton es.	Oct 12 09:37
PetoKraus	yes, but it was promised that the theme would be changed, wasn’t it.	Oct 12 09:37
Eruaran	Canonical doesn’t care about Kubuntu	Oct 12 09:38
schestowitz	Hey, Eruaran. PetoKraus the problem I see if the misuse and generalisation of the word “terrorism”. Schneier says they even call protesters “terrorism” now.	Oct 12 09:38
Eruaran	I think they should treat it the same as Xubuntu and cease all official support. I feel they’re just jerking KDE users around.	Oct 12 09:39
PetoKraus	schestowitz: yes, ofc. You can track it down to that “police accident” in london subway after the “terrorist” attacks….	Oct 12 09:39
Eruaran	We should all go support the Debian KDE team	Oct 12 09:39
PetoKraus	Eruaran: well, yes…	Oct 12 09:39
PetoKraus	i had hard time explaining the difference between copyrights and patents yesterday	Oct 12 09:40
schestowitz	Eruaran: try Mandriva 2009.	Oct 12 09:40
Eruaran	The attitudes from ‘gnomies’ has been bugging me lately	Oct 12 09:40
PetoKraus	mainly – the purpose of patents at all. It seems so useless now.	Oct 12 09:40
schestowitz	I hear it’s good. Best KDE4 implementation.	Oct 12 09:40
Eruaran	k	Oct 12 09:40
schestowitz	Don’t reward Canonical for neglecting KDE.	Oct 12 09:40
Eruaran	I hate RPM distro’s though	Oct 12 09:40
Eruaran	Thats why I’ve been looking at Sidux	Oct 12 09:41
schestowitz	PetoKraus: patent = idea; copyright = expression.	Oct 12 09:41
PetoKraus	schestowitz: that’s oversimplifying	Oct 12 09:41
schestowitz	You can paraphrase.	Oct 12 09:41
Eruaran	Sidux is pretty much just Debian already set up for folks who want KDE	Oct 12 09:41
schestowitz	For each idea, there are almost-infinitely many implementations. You can’t work past them.	Oct 12 09:42
schestowitz	Eruaran: it works (the RPM)	Oct 12 09:42
PetoKraus	Eruaran: i don’t like to use “derivatives”, because they tend to have lower degree of support than the “mother” distro	Oct 12 09:42
PetoKraus	schestowitz: i don’t believe you (on the RPM)	Oct 12 09:43
Eruaran	Sidux is just Debian unstable	Oct 12 09:43
schestowitz	GUI just like Synaptic	Oct 12 09:43
Eruaran	Same repositories	Oct 12 09:43
MinceR	hay	Oct 12 09:43
PetoKraus	schestowitz: i don’t use gui, neither on my debian box, nor on my gentoo box	Oct 12 09:44
PetoKraus	apt-cache search && apt-get install….	Oct 12 09:44
schestowitz	I was going to install Debian.	Oct 12 09:44
PetoKraus	the only problem with debian is, you can’t do much without enabling the debian.multimedia.org repositories	Oct 12 09:44
Eruaran	Debian KDE maintainers invited Jonathan Riddel to join them saying they need the help	Oct 12 09:44
PetoKraus	eg – there’s no DeCSS in debian’s repos (even in non-free)	Oct 12 09:44
Eruaran	thats no biggie	Oct 12 09:45
PetoKraus	i know	Oct 12 09:45
PetoKraus	and i’d rather like to enable custom repositories and keep my system quiet	Oct 12 09:45
PetoKraus	like having them enabled by default, and the system asking me about “what binary blob would you like to install today?”	Oct 12 09:46
Eruaran	I saw the dumbest thing	Oct 12 09:47
Eruaran	People complaining that Gnome doesn’t give you any way to configure screensavers that have config options	Oct 12 09:47
schestowitz	That might confuse the user.	Oct 12 09:48
Eruaran	And the maintainers opinion was that any screensaver that has configuration options is “inherently broken”	Oct 12 09:48
PetoKraus	well, gnome is weird. See epiphany?	Oct 12 09:48
PetoKraus	it WAS a good browser, light, fast	Oct 12 09:48
schestowitz	https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermai…	Oct 12 09:49
PetoKraus	then they removed almost every useful feature from it. I think, in next version it’ll be links*gtk	Oct 12 09:49
schestowitz	How tactless of Linus	Oct 12 09:49
Eruaran	So Ubuntu, for example, has slideshow screensavers that cannot be configured… like the Carosel, no pictures, so it just displays the default x image…	Oct 12 09:49
MinceR	lol	Oct 12 09:50
trmanco	http://forum.deluge-torrent.org/…	Oct 12 09:50
Eruaran	Linus was right	Oct 12 09:50
Eruaran	And things havent improved	Oct 12 09:50
PetoKraus	tactless, but correct	Oct 12 09:50
Eruaran	If you want to be able to choose some nice pictures that you like for your slideshow screensaver… use KDE	Oct 12 09:51
Eruaran	the kind of attitude displayed by some gnome developers is just plain retarded	Oct 12 09:52
schestowitz	I happened to read this 5 minutes ago (it’s new): http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2008/07/08/the-big…	Oct 12 09:54
schestowitz	’twas in FSDaily	Oct 12 09:55
Eruaran	Linus was absolutely correct. I don’t think this kind of stupidity needs to be treated tactfully.	Oct 12 09:56
Eruaran	You can’t talk about usability when there isn’t a usable dialogue to use that does what the user wants to do at all.	Oct 12 09:57
schestowitz	Well, he wrote a patch	Oct 12 09:58
Eruaran	“”	Oct 12 09:59
Eruaran	But hey, just continue to remove all that confusing functionality from	Oct 12 09:59
Eruaran	Gnome. I don’t care. I voted with my feet.	Oct 12 09:59
Eruaran	that quote didnt quite work right	Oct 12 09:59
Eruaran	:p	Oct 12 09:59
schestowitz	Well, gnome logo	Oct 12 10:00
MinceR	lol	Oct 12 10:01
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PetoKraus	oh man, that HAVOC guy is terrible troll	Oct 12 10:28
schestowitz	URL?	Oct 12 10:28
schestowitz	The Inquirer has had a very distracting menu picture since yesterday: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/…	Oct 12 10:29
PetoKraus	schestowitz: the linus rant follow up	Oct 12 10:32
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schestowitz	Well, and Linus isn’t a troll? “And the technical term for somebody who claims to do user interface design and not understand this fact is a “FUCKING IDIOT”.”	Oct 12 10:35
PetoKraus	well, that point is true as well	Oct 12 10:36
schestowitz	He could say “fool” or “idiot”	Oct 12 10:37
PetoKraus	could, but didn’t	Oct 12 10:37
PetoKraus	that’s what language is for	Oct 12 10:37
PetoKraus	you express what you want to express.	Oct 12 10:37
schestowitz	He could get kicked had he not been Linus	Oct 12 10:37
schestowitz	*would	Oct 12 10:37
PetoKraus	https://lists.linux-foundation.org/piper…	Oct 12 10:40
PetoKraus	MONOron	Oct 12 10:40
schestowitz	I knew it was him… from the use of the word “muck”	Oct 12 10:44
PetoKraus	i mean, maybe gnome is still independent of mono	Oct 12 10:44
PetoKraus	upstream sources, that is.	Oct 12 10:44
schestowitz	It’s not dependent in partical terms.	Oct 12 10:45
schestowitz	But when distributed, there’s encouragement through availability to put Mono in there.	Oct 12 10:45
PetoKraus	but all those distributions packaging mono stuff with GNOME create the very evident illusion, that apps from GNOME depend on mono	Oct 12 10:45
schestowitz	There are many Mono Myths^TM	Oct 12 10:46
schestowitz	Mono Myth: Mono is fast, Java is slow (it’s not)	Oct 12 10:46
schestowitz	Weak spot: If patent violations are found in Mono, the project will remove the code	Oct 12 10:46
schestowitz	Excuse: Mono’s .DLL and .EXE are just normal binaries (yeah, why ev en have /usr/bin… let’s just use c:/progra~1 too)	Oct 12 10:47
schestowitz	Excuse #2: It’s possible to ‘just’ remove Mono (dependency issue)	Oct 12 10:47
schestowitz	Lie: GNOME isn’t becoming dependent on Mono (good luck finding a GNOME distro without Mono)	Oct 12 10:48
schestowitz	“He’s evil too” FUD pattern: “Mono is like Samba” (not: http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/i… )	Oct 12 10:48
schestowitz	Disinformation: Microsoft and .NET are ‘inevitable’ anyway (Novell propaganda)	Oct 12 10:48
schestowitz	Mono marketing: Mono allows programs to run also in other platforms (hey, we don’t need Linux anymore).	Oct 12 10:49
schestowitz	Selling point: It brings Windows developers in (woohoo! More boosters for MOOX, people who don’t care about freedom, urge us to love Microsoft despite its well-documented crimes)	Oct 12 10:50
schestowitz	Gymanastic in logic: It’s an ECMA standard (they have misconceptions about RAND and WinForms)	Oct 12 10:50
schestowitz	And so on…	Oct 12 10:50
schestowitz	Linux.com pimping proprietary software with DirectX: http://www.linux.com/feature/149902	Oct 12 10:52
trmanco	“We know Google submits many bug fixes for Wine, and it is evident	Oct 12 11:04
trmanco	by the new Picasa V 3.0 beta which is lightning fast and puts Mono	Oct 12 11:04
trmanco	based application F-spot to shame.”	Oct 12 11:04
trmanco	haha	Oct 12 11:04
PetoKraus	why the hell does it have to be ran on wine	Oct 12 11:05
trmanco	http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1_1_6_Re…	Oct 12 11:05
PetoKraus	mirage <3<3	Oct 12 11:06
trmanco	I really don’t know why	Oct 12 11:06
trmanco	here is another good one	Oct 12 11:06
schestowitz	It’s not good if it replaces FOSS projects, even Mono.	Oct 12 11:06
trmanco	http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1_1_6_Rele…	Oct 12 11:06
schestowitz	It’s proprietary, it’s DirectX, it’s Windows.	Oct 12 11:06
trmanco	picassa directx?	Oct 12 11:07
schestowitz	They should move it to OpenGL and port it properly.	Oct 12 11:07
trmanco	have to look into that than	Oct 12 11:07
schestowitz	But I hear that former Microsoft employees in Google might help make silly acquisitions and dev decisions.	Oct 12 11:07
PetoKraus	^^	Oct 12 11:08
PetoKraus	he’s fucking’ killing google, i tell ya.	Oct 12 11:08
PetoKraus	i’m quite surprised Steve didn’t throw a chair at the eggthrower in Hungary.	Oct 12 11:08
PetoKraus	i guess he was just a bit perplex	Oct 12 11:09
schestowitz	This one is pretty funny: http://vivapinkfloyd.blogspot.com/2008/10/so…	Oct 12 11:09
trmanco	don’t agree with this one -> don’t install linux on a system with one sata and one ide drive (adding a hard disk will confuse it even more)	Oct 12 11:10
trmanco	my system has one sata and one ide drive	Oct 12 11:10
trmanco	works flawlessly	Oct 12 11:11
schestowitz	PetoKraus: Balmer is a Chihuahua:. It just barks.	Oct 12 11:11
PetoKraus	heh, i can’t imagine Paris carrying Ballmer in a dog-bag	Oct 12 11:11
PetoKraus		Oct 12 11:11
schestowitz	“It was only a short matter of time after making that announcement before KDE 4.1 was released. And with that release have come new releases of distributions that use it. An excellent example of a KDE 4.1 DE/distribution release is, in my opinion, Mandriva 2009. The more I work with the latest version of Mandriva and KDE 4.1.2 the more comfortable I am with the entire distribution. I honestly haven’t felt this good about a Linux di	Oct 12 11:13
schestowitz	stribution using KDE since openSUSE 10.2 and KDE 3.”	Oct 12 11:13
schestowitz	http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2008/10/le…	Oct 12 11:13
PetoKraus	hmm, let’s fire the virtualisation engine,then	Oct 12 11:15
schestowitz	[H]omer seems to have removed this image: http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Yqciy1HgQBFQnM:http…	Oct 12 11:15
PetoKraus	schestowitz: so you use mandriva?	Oct 12 11:16
schestowitz	LOL http://farm2.static.flickr.com/…	Oct 12 11:17
schestowitz	Found it while looking at some BN links.	Oct 12 11:18
schestowitz	PetoKraus: yes.	Oct 12 11:18
PetoKraus	i like the concept of kde4.1	Oct 12 11:18
schestowitz	THis one too: http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=t…	Oct 12 11:18
PetoKraus	though most of it was taken from E, and from MacOS	Oct 12 11:18
schestowitz	Eruaran: KDE 4 is catching on.	Oct 12 11:18
schestowitz	Yes, some of it is like E	Oct 12 11:19
schestowitz	Speaking of which, in the City of Ember, or whatever that new firm was called, the “E” seems to have been ‘stolen’ from Enlightenment.	Oct 12 11:19
schestowitz	*silm	Oct 12 11:19
schestowitz	*film	Oct 12 11:19
PetoKraus	yes	Oct 12 11:20
PetoKraus	let’s file copyright infringement	Oct 12 11:20
PetoKraus	right, i need to start operation barbarossa	Oct 12 11:21
schestowitz	Yes, no? ttp://www.cinematical.com/media/2008/05/coe_800x1185.jpg	Oct 12 11:21
PetoKraus	(ie, quest for history books…)	Oct 12 11:21
schestowitz	Yes? No? http://www.cinematical.com/media/2008/…	Oct 12 11:21
PetoKraus	it’s not really	Oct 12 11:22
PetoKraus	but i guess i could file a patent for “stylized typing of E in circular way”	Oct 12 11:22
PetoKraus	in the US, that’s it.	Oct 12 11:22
schestowitz	http://debianadmin.com/copper/albums/e17/n…/a>	Oct 12 11:22
schestowitz	http://linuxowns.files.wordpr…	Oct 12 11:23
schestowitz	PetoKraus: yes, e circles.	Oct 12 11:23
PetoKraus	schestowitz: the last one is my background	Oct 12 11:24
schestowitz	Sue any publication mathematical with exponentials, too.	Oct 12 11:24
PetoKraus		Oct 12 11:24
schestowitz	Made by you or used?	Oct 12 11:24
PetoKraus	used	Oct 12 11:24
PetoKraus	not made… it’s made by Thomas Haste. It’s amazing dark theme	Oct 12 11:25
trmanco	Debian is sexy -> http://debiansid.files.wordpress.com/2008/…	Oct 12 11:25
PetoKraus	doh	Oct 12 11:25
PetoKraus	make the eyes brown	Oct 12 11:25
PetoKraus	and i’ll love it.	Oct 12 11:26
PetoKraus	though, since we are talking debian, the girl is probably in her 80ties by now	Oct 12 11:26
trmanco	http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html	Oct 12 11:26
schestowitz	http://jaysonrowe.wordpress.com/2008/10/… “That’s pretty much all I’ve done. So far, nothing has crashed, Plasma has behaved itself and everything has “just worked”. Mandriva has made me forget that I’m using KDE 4, which is actually a good thing! “	Oct 12 11:28
trmanco	http://www.dwheeler.com/fuzz-failure-rate.png	Oct 12 11:28
schestowitz	http://jaysonrowe.files.wordpress….	Oct 12 11:29
trmanco	cool	Oct 12 11:29
trmanco	new mandriva	Oct 12 11:30
schestowitz	PetoKraus: 80s? Why? She’s good looking.	Oct 12 11:30
schestowitz	trmanco: KDE4 is calming down. The whole noise will vanish, just as Seigo predicated. it was the same with 3.0.	Oct 12 11:30
schestowitz	*predicted.	Oct 12 11:30
schestowitz	They have a very strong foundation now. Eruaran would be thrilled.	Oct 12 11:31
trmanco	looks better than any gnome based distro imo	Oct 12 11:31
trmanco	even tho gnome is my favorite	Oct 12 11:32
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schestowitz	Ubuntu should aim for a niche and make that Debian wallpaper its default	Oct 12 11:34
schestowitz	At least that way, people would start saying that Ubuntu is not ugly.	Oct 12 11:34
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schestowitz	IP Innovation v Red Hat and Novell – 1 Year Later http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=…	Oct 12 11:40
schestowitz	Mandriva 2009: Is It Better Than Mac Or Windows! http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/29437/news.htm	Oct 12 11:43
trmanco	http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2008/07/…	Oct 12 11:44
trmanco	the author of the article has a good point there	Oct 12 11:44
schestowitz	Implicit save	Oct 12 11:45
schestowitz	http://weblog.obso1337.org/2008/implicit-save/	Oct 12 11:46
trmanco	lol	Oct 12 11:49
trmanco	well the way that kde does the save is a better way	Oct 12 11:49
trmanco	gnome should have some settings with implicit save and some others without	Oct 12 11:50
schestowitz	New: “There are some distros that even go too far in trying to make a distro “newbie” friendly and in the interest of making a few things super easy to find or do, actually remove some of the capability or productiveness overall. That isn’t productive either.” http://linuxgeeksunited.blogspot.com/200…	Oct 12 12:08
schestowitz	Another reasons to avoid Monovell: “I really do not understand why Net is not backwards compatible but I suppose at least I should be happy that the libraries can co-exist instead of the old DLL hell. Microsofts attempt to replace Java could have been implemented in a better way.” http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?si…	Oct 12 12:14
schestowitz	http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/12… http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/…	Oct 12 12:38
benJIman	.net 3.5 is fairly backwards compatible with 2. 2 wasn’t with 1 because of how they implemented generics. Java compromised on the generics implementation making them more difficult for developers to understand and losing some of the performance benefits to maintain backwards compatibility.	Oct 12 12:42
benJIman	Java is not entirely backwards/forwards compatible either.	Oct 12 12:43
*Eruaran is thrilled		Oct 12 12:59
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twitter	good morning, all.	Oct 12 14:29
schestowitz	Moin.	Oct 12 14:30
twitter	schestowitz: patent = invention. Ideas, as you know, are a dime a dozen. Inventions are specific, practical and non obvious combinations of ideas. A patent that covers an idea would be broad enough to be a method patent.	Oct 12 14:32
twitter	Hey, this is good news, “the rules in patent cases force the parties early on to place their cards on the table”	Oct 12 14:35
twitter	That will make it a lot harder for M$ to use patents to shake down free software.	Oct 12 14:36
twitter	Unless they Tojan most distributions with mono.	Oct 12 14:36
schestowitz	I’m writing about this right now.	Oct 12 14:39
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twitter	cool	Oct 12 14:45
twitter	what was funny about that vivapinkfloyd page?	Oct 12 14:45
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twitter	the guy is either a moron or a FUDster.	Oct 12 14:45
twitter	three firefox tabs under five seconds does what? I just opened five in under three and it did nothing.	Oct 12 14:47
PetoKraus	doh	Oct 12 14:47
PetoKraus	belkin is shite	Oct 12 14:47
twitter	it goes downhill from there.	Oct 12 14:47
twitter	RMS has been blogging the cost of global warming for a while.	Oct 12 14:50
twitter	the extermination of fisheries and cropland has almost incalculable costs.	Oct 12 14:51
twitter	One of the worst predictions is the halting of the gulf stream and other deep ocean currents. This could make the oceans look like the Black Sea.	Oct 12 14:52
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twitter	Weakened currents and warmer temperatures in northern California waters has already done a lot of damage.	Oct 12 14:54
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twitter	A cycle of doubt and flood is another thing predicted by global warming models. That’s what “extreme” weather ends up doing to crops.	Oct 12 14:55
twitter	It’s not something you can make crops resistant to, so “climate change ready” seeds are a lie. A drought resistant corn, for example, won’t be flood resistant and the crop will fail one way or the other.	Oct 12 14:57
twitter	Then there is the northward migration of tropical disease and pests. Pine beetles have already taken a bite out of forestry.	Oct 12 14:58
twitter	Positive feedback mechanisms, like methane released from melting permafrost and warmer oceans, is also being documented. It may already be too late to halt.	Oct 12 15:00
schestowitz	I’ll need your help.	Oct 12 15:01
schestowitz	We need to petition distros. Let me just post it first	Oct 12 15:01
PetoKraus	umm, interesting	Oct 12 15:01
twitter	Petition what, KDE support?	Oct 12 15:03
schestowitz	.This is urgent as OOo3 is out tomorrow and Novell may try publicity stunts: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/12/mic… Please pass on to people who can help.	Oct 12 15:07
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PetoKraus	alright, it’s starting to get annoying	Oct 12 15:10
schestowitz	It’s starting to get Microsoft.	Oct 12 15:16
benJIman	O_o	Oct 12 15:25
benJIman	You do realise go-ooo is about sun using a non-free licence for their version of openoffice and not accepting free software patches from the community unless copyright is assigned to them>	Oct 12 15:26
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schestowitz	I realise that go-ooo is about polluting OOo.	Oct 12 15:31
benJIman	What makes you think Novell are even involved?	Oct 12 15:32
benJIman	Just because Michael Meeks is involved?	Oct 12 15:32
benJIman	Today’s articles surpass your usual standard for unsubstantiated misinformation and FUD.	Oct 12 15:34
benJIman	” we won’t link to actual examples as that would feed Novell’s insidious messages.” rofl	Oct 12 15:34
schestowitz	They use a so-called ‘community’ to hide involvement.	Oct 12 15:34
schestowitz	“I’m just a hacker”	Oct 12 15:34
schestowitz	Same BS as Mono.	Oct 12 15:35
schestowitz	benJIman: are you here to police on behalf of Novell or just on behalf of your beloved SUSE?	Oct 12 15:35
benJIman	schestowitz: Have you actually got a problem with a single thing go-ooo has done? I only see a lot of complaining that Novell is contributing to free software.	Oct 12 15:36
schestowitz	You haven’t read carefully enough, methinks.	Oct 12 15:40
benJIman	I did read the whole “article”.	Oct 12 15:43
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twitter	Here’s a specific complaint, they use LGPL http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html	Oct 12 16:52
twitter	If they were friends of software freedom and had something special, they should use GPL instead.	Oct 12 16:53
twitter	Roy’s other complaints were specific as well, Benjie, and you have not really unseated them by mentioning a Novell paid contributor to the project.	Oct 12 17:00
benJIman	twitter: I don’t see any complaints.	Oct 12 17:00
benJIman	Unless you count the rambling about mono.	Oct 12 17:01
twitter	His most specific complaint is that go-oo.org is offering something that only Novell customers will be able to use.	Oct 12 17:01
benJIman	Why’s that?	Oct 12 17:01
twitter	Patents	Oct 12 17:01
benJIman	Upstream oo has ooxml support too, go-oo oo doesn’t have a hard dependency on mono.	Oct 12 17:01
benJIman	So what’s the difference again?	Oct 12 17:02
twitter	You tell me why go-oo exists.	Oct 12 17:02
benJIman	Because sun would not accept significant community contributions without copyright assignment.	Oct 12 17:02
mib_prbh5a	er twitter, you might want to read http://www.openoffice.org/license.html – OpenOffice itself is released under the LGPL	Oct 12 17:03
twitter	that’s a shame.	Oct 12 17:03
mib_prbh5a	but the decision of the people who created it.	Oct 12 17:03
benJIman	You could fork it as a GPLed version too, the lgpl is gpl compatible.	Oct 12 17:03
twitter	brb	Oct 12 17:04
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twitter	Go-oo claimed the upstream sources were under more restrictive licenses. Was that a lie?	Oct 12 17:16
twitter	Now that they are under the same license, why have a go-oo.org?	Oct 12 17:16
twitter	When you release source under a copyleft license, why worry about copyright assignment? Isn’t it better to assign your copyright to a larger organization that can defend copyleft terms?	Oct 12 17:17
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twitter	The problem of patents is unanswered by a fork, especially a fork loaded with Novell supplied OOXML code.	Oct 12 17:18
twitter	This fork does not look honest and I don’t think sensible distributions are going to embrace it.	Oct 12 17:19
twitter	Isn’t OOXML itself patent encumbered Benjie?	Oct 12 17:23
twitter	If it is, go-ooxml.org does not need mono for M$ to squash it, wasting all of the developer time spent there.	Oct 12 17:24
twitter	It’s easier for M$ to cry about patent infringement on their formats and language than it is for them to use them against Linux itself. Would this be why Novell is stuffing Gnome with mono and OO with OOXML?	Oct 12 17:27
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trmanco	http://dot.kde.org/1223822418/	Oct 12 17:51
trmanco	“The KDE Community today launches the new KDE Forum. The new forum uses the bulletin board software MyBB offering users, developers and people interested in KDE a place to help each other, discuss KDE-related topics and exchange ideas.”	Oct 12 17:51
trmanco	http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/linux…	Oct 12 17:52
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schestowitz	twitter: fair points. It’s worth including in a followup	Oct 12 19:35
schestowitz	trmanco: “MyBB Released as GPL”	Oct 12 19:35
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schestowitz	Someone mail me a translation of: http://www.riksdagen.se/webbnav/?n…	Oct 12 19:36
schestowitz	…A parliamentary representative from the far right is proposing to require use of open source in the public sector…	Oct 12 19:36
schestowitz	…FOSS allows for better oversight of government work and are of good economic value even outside government. (Note: Sweden is one giant corporate welfare state with many government services now provided by private companies which do an expensive, limited, poor job.)	Oct 12 19:36
schestowitz	zoobab: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10063464-16.html http://www.heise.de/english/new…	Oct 12 19:37
schestowitz	<schestowitz> IP Innovation v Red Hat and Novell – 1 Year Later http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200…	Oct 12 19:37
schestowitz	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7662565.stm “The global economy is losing more money from the disappearance of forests than through the current banking crisis, according to an EU-commissioned study. It puts the annual cost of forest loss at between $2 trillion and $5 trillion.”	Oct 12 20:08
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schestowitz	The post about OOo seems to be well received in Digg… http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_Novell_Fork_Op…	Oct 12 20:36
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brunomiguel	hello	Oct 12 20:44
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schestowitz	Hey, brunomiguel	Oct 12 20:47
brunomiguel	hello schestowitz	Oct 12 20:48
trmanco	http://blog.softwarelivre.sapo.pt/2008/10/12/fc…	Oct 12 20:50
trmanco	Hi	Oct 12 20:50
brunomiguel	trmanco: viva	Oct 12 20:50
trmanco		Oct 12 20:50
brunomiguel	trmanco: obscene expenses with mostly with dictatorware	Oct 12 20:50
trmanco	…	Oct 12 20:51
trmanco	that is our tax money that pays for a bloated system	Oct 12 20:51
brunomiguel	sad and true :\	Oct 12 20:52
brunomiguel	here in Coimbra, 5 million euros to a microsoft thing. damn lot of money, at least from my standpoint	Oct 12 20:57
trmanco	5 million euros just from coimbra is a lot of money, considering the country we are living in	Oct 12 20:58
trmanco	http://translate.google.com/translate?u=h…	Oct 12 20:59
trmanco	tranlated version	Oct 12 20:59
trmanco	translated *	Oct 12 20:59
brunomiguel	for me it’s a fortune that i would glady receive, if they care to give it to me	Oct 12 20:59
trmanco	1/2 of it would do for me	Oct 12 21:00
brunomiguel	the full thing or nothing	Oct 12 21:01
trmanco	lol	Oct 12 21:01
trmanco	don’t get to greedy	Oct 12 21:02
brunomiguel	who? me?? no	Oct 12 21:02
brunomiguel		Oct 12 21:02
schestowitz	What does Rui say?	Oct 12 21:03
brunomiguel	schestowitz: read this to get an idea http://translate.google.com/translate?u=htt…	Oct 12 21:07
schestowitz	Microsoft almost bought SAP	Oct 12 21:11
schestowitz	They are very close. They also use Novell because it’s Microsoft-’approved’	Oct 12 21:11
schestowitz	Same with other industry allies of Microsoft.	Oct 12 21:12
brunomiguel	the army of evil xD	Oct 12 21:12
schestowitz	http://fowa.phreadz.com/v/3RUDOQM3UOCH/	Oct 12 21:15
brunomiguel	can’t watch it. i don’t have gnash or any other free flah implementation installed. :\	Oct 12 21:16
brunomiguel	*flash	Oct 12 21:16
schestowitz	Yes, I know.	Oct 12 21:16
schestowitz	Sorry.	Oct 12 21:17
brunomiguel	maybe clive can download it	Oct 12 21:17
schestowitz	It’s about the economy.	Oct 12 21:18
schestowitz	Context/background: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/…	Oct 12 21:18
zoobab	http://www.epo.org/topics/news/2008/20081009.html	Oct 12 21:20
zoobab	EPO lobbies the EU	Oct 12 21:20
schestowitz	Interesting, thanks.	Oct 12 21:22
trmanco	schestowitz, how is that M$-Mono email thing going?	Oct 12 21:23
schestowitz	No answer yes.	Oct 12 21:25
schestowitz	Tick tick.	Oct 12 21:25
trmanco	lol	Oct 12 21:25
schestowitz	Someone volunteered to do a well-researched post on Mono problems and solutions to it (replacement)	Oct 12 21:29
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seller_liar	hey roy	Oct 12 22:03
seller_liar	m$ releases M , a new programming language based in…….XAML!	Oct 12 22:03
schestowitz	Meh.	Oct 12 22:05
schestowitz	Linux has just been renamed “L” ;-0	Oct 12 22:05
schestowitz	And Microsoft renamed embedded Windows… because changing a name will /REALLY/ makes Linux nervous where it already dominates.	Oct 12 22:06
schestowitz	Nowadays in Digg people vote just for Linux fanboism and MS bashing. Eve the site’s founder is concerned about it. It’s no hub for news.	Oct 12 22:10
seller_liar	patents and proprietary software have a lot of coincidences	Oct 12 22:30
seller_liar	the two EXPECT to make millions	Oct 12 22:30
MinceR	you forgot the crApple bias.	Oct 12 22:30
seller_liar	is different to gain million with work	Oct 12 22:31
schestowitz	It’s perceived value	Oct 12 22:31
seller_liar	for example	Oct 12 22:31
schestowitz	Watch the talk from Tim Bray. It’s very good.	Oct 12 22:31
schestowitz	very timely.	Oct 12 22:31
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MinceR	gn	Oct 12 22:31
seller_liar	i make a very good software no matter I pay for this ,but later I will price my software 1000000x of cost	Oct 12 22:32
schestowitz	gn. A lot of things are valued by belief, e.g. certificates versus something hard like food of fuel.	Oct 12 22:32
seller_liar	patents and proprietary software gives the price control for owners ,not for users	Oct 12 22:33
*schestowitz thinks of those 1960s-like shows where Little Johnny “made a patent” and “made a million”. Ahhh.. the daze [sic] of Hollywood dreamin’		Oct 12 22:33
benJIman	twitter: Well debian and ubuntu already did. And as I already said, upstream has ooxml support too, it wasn’t introduced in the fork.	Oct 12 22:36
seller_liar	hey roy did you understand my ideas about charles and bertrand?	Oct 12 22:36
schestowitz	Yes, thanks.	Oct 12 22:42
schestowitz	You could state this in public.	Oct 12 22:42
seller_liar	you can copy my dialog for the public ,but delete some names from there	Oct 12 22:48
seller_liar	or change the names for seller_liar	Oct 12 22:50
seller_liar	for example seller_liar is stupid!	Oct 12 22:50
seller_liar	“I will teach some tips for destroy seller_liar	Oct 12 22:51
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 22:59:11 2008
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 22:59:11 2008
twitter	ick, benjie, you are right. http://packages.debian.org/testing/editor…	Oct 12 23:30
twitter	I don’t often use OO much less keep up with it’s development.	Oct 12 23:31
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benJIman	twitter: And go-oo didn’t introduce ooxml, it is in upstream.	Oct 12 23:31
benJIman	twitter: And mono is not required by go-oo.	Oct 12 23:31
benJIman	So in summary, the entire article is incorrect.	Oct 12 23:31
twitter	No, OO.org is still a trap. I imagine the strategy is to take what it gives and tell M$ FU when they come knocking.	Oct 12 23:31
twitter	ha ha.	Oct 12 23:32
twitter	They won’t be around much longer anyway.	Oct 12 23:32
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