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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 12th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:16 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

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cj hmm? Oct 12 00:46
cj that sounds pretty bad.  have you made a point of telling someone who can do something about it?  are you asking me to put you in contact with someone closer to the issue than me? Oct 12 00:48
schestowitz No, they know about it Oct 12 00:49
schestowitz .FOSS people were shown the evidence too. Oct 12 00:49
cj thanks for bringing it to my attention. Oct 12 00:49
schestowitz There are worse stories about what Microsoft did in India. The MD was sacked/ran away, reportedly due to all those fiascos. It’s still a mess in Microsoft India, according to mini-microsoft. Oct 12 00:54
cj MD? Oct 12 01:20
MinceR gn Oct 12 01:38
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twitter Hello all, I’m back from a nice little trip. Oct 12 03:02
twitter On my trip I learned that a friend had been modbombed for giving modpoints to my comments on Slashdot. Oct 12 03:03
twitter He had never mentioned this on Slashdot and described it as “twitter is poison” Oct 12 03:04
twitter Either my communications with him had been intercepted, someone at Slashdot does not like twitter, or Slashdot is compromised again. Oct 12 03:05
twitter Thought I’d share that before going to bed.  See you all in the morning. Oct 12 03:06
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schestowitz OT: http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/1…  “According to some preliminary studies, the loss of forest cover and other environmental degradations are costing the world economy between two and five trillion dollars annually.” Oct 12 07:25
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pombat42 Do you feel global warming is a real, man made situation, a natural cycle or a combination of the two? Oct 12 07:58
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schestowitz http://www.heise.de/english/newstic… “More worrying are the problems currently reported from Palm Beach County, where voting machines supplied by Sequoia Voting Systems acted strangely during various ballot counts.” Oct 12 08:22
schestowitz pombat42: for a scientific fact, emission /do/ help the warming. Oct 12 08:23
pombat42 sure. but what about things like the little ice age circa 1700 or so. No Co2 back then Oct 12 08:29
schestowitz That’s separate from contribution by men Oct 12 08:31
pombat42 of course, but it gives credence to the cyclic theory IOW that these things happen Oct 12 08:31
schestowitz Think along the lines of blaming /not/ smoking for the death of a victim of lung cancer, who was also a smoker.. saying something like “it could have happened even without smoking.” Oct 12 08:33
pombat42 smoking is a choice. a poor one. the laws of nature are still mostly unexplained by science Oct 12 08:34
schestowitz I since there will be another 2000-like scandal in this election because of voting machines. Oct 12 08:34
pombat42 re:voting. all the crooked voting machines can not make up for the morons pulling the levers Oct 12 08:34
schestowitz I’m no expert in climatic changes, but I know that oil companies paid many millions to throw disinformation into the pool and ‘add balance.’ Oct 12 08:35
schestowitz See this video: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netroots_… Oct 12 08:35
pombat42 of course. they make money selling oil. they make far more selling foreign oil Oct 12 08:35
pombat42 how come when a US oil rig goes south due to a hurricane the price of oil skyrockets but yet when a foreign oil producing country, like Iraq, is invaded Oct 12 08:36
pombat42 oil prices remain more or less stable? Oct 12 08:36
pombat42 seems like USA is better off depending on foreign oil (i don’t believe that but a point can be made) Oct 12 08:37
schestowitz Puts it in debt.. Oct 12 08:38
pombat42 IMHO the whole system is completely corrupt Oct 12 08:40
schestowitz Yes, you must assume this coming in Oct 12 08:41
pombat42 seriously. who am I going to vote for? McCain, who is a career pol and part of the problem or Obama who doesn’t seem to have a clue? Oct 12 08:42
pombat42 Palin and Biden say more than the those two. I like both of them, but for different reasons Oct 12 08:43
pombat42 Palin is rough around the edges, not connected with Washington. Biden is a family guy, not rich and seems to have some good things to say. still, no real choice here Oct 12 08:44
pombat42 So where do I go? Oct 12 08:44
schestowitz Biden is the MPAA’s henchman. Oct 12 08:45
schestowitz On the Republicans’ side they control McCain. They hold both sides by the balls. Oct 12 08:46
schestowitz You still have choice. Oct 12 08:46
schestowitz Choose vanilla and lemon or lemon and vanilla. Oct 12 08:46
pombat42 Of course. Bush is a puppet, and a moron to boot. I doubt McCain even knows what MPAA is…his sidemen tell him this stuff Oct 12 08:47
pombat42 Vanilla…very funny !!!! Oct 12 08:47
schestowitz The illusion of choice… the corporate giants fund both parties (at the same time) and will therefore control them the same way afterwards. Oct 12 08:47
pombat42 yep. And what is lobbying? legalized whores IMHO Oct 12 08:47
schestowitz McBush knows the $$ from the MPAA. He doesn’t need to understand what they do. He has ‘advisors’ to tell him what to say about them. Oct 12 08:48
schestowitz Guess how those ‘advisors’ are a$$igned? Oct 12 08:48
trmanco does anybody remember this? -> http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1073/… Oct 12 08:48
pombat42 Bush is an oil man. Him and Cheny are tighlty connected with Haliburton. Guess who is making tons of money even in these tough times. Oct 12 08:49
schestowitz I saw that last year, trmanco Oct 12 08:49
schestowitz Very good. I still link to it sometimes. Oct 12 08:49
pombat42 Example: why does the USA have to IMPORT Oil/Gasoline/fuel to run it’s military vehicles in Iraq, a country overflowing with oil… Oct 12 08:50
trmanco yes its old, but looks nice… just to bring up that M$ said that opengl was dead Oct 12 08:50
schestowitz It’s over a year old. No example of OGL3 Oct 12 08:50
schestowitz Microsoft has a Slog against OpenGL. Oct 12 08:51
schestowitz They call it “War”. Oct 12 08:51
pombat42 opengl is of interest to camers, few others even know what it is. Oct 12 08:51
schestowitz “Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency, as in, “he believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and OS/2.” Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition’s technology part of the mythology of the computer industry. We want to place selection pressure on those companies and individuals that show a genetic weakness for com Oct 12 08:51
schestowitz petitors’ technologies, to make the industry increasingly resistant to such unhealthy strains, over time.” Oct 12 08:51
schestowitz From Microsoft, internal document < http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/0…> Oct 12 08:51
pombat42 the press are morons Oct 12 08:51
pombat42 example? take a look at Ben Stein who admitted today on FoxNews that he lost a fortune the past few weeks Oct 12 08:52
pombat42 and I like him Oct 12 08:52
schestowitz Why was that? Oct 12 08:52
schestowitz Well, why is this relevant? Many losta  fortune. Oct 12 08:52
pombat42 he invested poorly and didn’t anticipate the market Oct 12 08:53
pombat42 yea, but he is an icon of the financial industry Oct 12 08:53
schestowitz I don’t watch Fox ‘News’, so I don’t know that Ben. Oct 12 08:53
trmanco lol Oct 12 08:53
trmanco Windows: innovative VTP technology (Virus Transfer Oct 12 08:53
trmanco Protocol) Oct 12 08:53
trmanco where did you get this from? Oct 12 08:53
schestowitz Made it up. Oct 12 08:53
pombat42 huh? Oct 12 08:54
trmanco lol Oct 12 08:55
trmanco funny Oct 12 08:55
pombat42 Huh? Oct 12 08:56
trmanco you better license that under the GPL before M$ steals your idea Oct 12 08:57
schestowitz Ideas can be stolen? Oct 12 08:58
schestowitz That’s like saying that spirit can be robbed. Oct 12 08:58
pombat42 Why bother? Copyright it, patent it and make some real money. GPL? No way… if I have an idea I want to make money not deal with some nebulous script. Oct 12 08:58
trmanco well from M$ who knows Oct 12 08:58
schestowitz Myhrvold attitude: I AM a thinker! Yes! I am your God. You shall pay me for my thinking, $150 per word I utter. Oct 12 08:59
trmanco lol Oct 12 08:59
schestowitz Time at Microsoft messed with the man’s brain. Oct 12 08:59
pombat42 and yet if they offered you 100 dollars per word you would take it. anyone would. Oct 12 09:00
schestowitz Time for the shock treatment. Must undo ego… Oct 12 09:00
pombat42 I would Oct 12 09:00
schestowitz He doesn’t /take/ the money Oct 12 09:01
schestowitz he’s hunting for it. Oct 12 09:01
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schestowitz He threatens companies like Cisco and Verizon, IIRC. Oct 12 09:01
schestowitz Doe daring to have thought about the same ide…. errr… portfolio. Oct 12 09:01
schestowitz There can be a word for it: “knowledge terrorist” Oct 12 09:02
pombat42 a more accurate word is nuts Oct 12 09:02
schestowitz Knowledge terrorist: a man or woman who terrified poor victims who dare think the same things. Oct 12 09:02
pombat42 nut: a person who believes everyone is out to get him/her Oct 12 09:03
schestowitz So that’s the opposite role. Oct 12 09:05
schestowitz http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/infosphere/2009-show-down-… “If the company tries to file for everything they invent they spend a fortune on patent attorney fees and filing costs.  If they don’t file then another company will “invent” the same thing and file and the original company can end up being threatened for patent infringement.” Oct 12 09:05
schestowitz That would make the ‘troll victim’ the ‘nut’… for a person who’s a software developer it must be no joy. COmpanies like facebook and Digg get sued by trolls for their success. Oct 12 09:06
PetoKraus schestowitz: no, no, that’s not terrorist Oct 12 09:19
PetoKraus terrorist would be the one who terrifies people with different thoughts. Oct 12 09:19
PetoKraus do’h, the crapbuntu wallpaper will still look like diarrhoea shit. literally Oct 12 09:21
PetoKraus http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/10/11/ahh-mu… Oct 12 09:21
Eruaran hello Oct 12 09:35
PetoKraus hello Oct 12 09:36
Eruaran Im thinking it might be time to try a new distro Oct 12 09:36
Eruaran Been looking at Sidux Oct 12 09:37
schestowitz PetoKraus: the wallpaper is OK Oct 12 09:37
schestowitz Some people really like these ton es. Oct 12 09:37
PetoKraus yes, but it was promised that the theme would be changed, wasn’t it. Oct 12 09:37
Eruaran Canonical doesn’t care about Kubuntu Oct 12 09:38
schestowitz Hey, Eruaran. PetoKraus the problem I see if the misuse and generalisation of the word “terrorism”. Schneier says they even call protesters “terrorism” now. Oct 12 09:38
Eruaran I think they should treat it the same as Xubuntu and cease all official support. I feel they’re just jerking KDE users around. Oct 12 09:39
PetoKraus schestowitz: yes, ofc. You can track it down to that “police accident” in london subway after the “terrorist” attacks…. Oct 12 09:39
Eruaran We should all go support the Debian KDE team Oct 12 09:39
PetoKraus Eruaran: well, yes… Oct 12 09:39
PetoKraus i had hard time explaining the difference between copyrights and patents yesterday Oct 12 09:40
schestowitz Eruaran: try Mandriva 2009. Oct 12 09:40
Eruaran The attitudes from ‘gnomies’ has been bugging me lately Oct 12 09:40
PetoKraus mainly – the purpose of patents at all. It seems so useless now. Oct 12 09:40
schestowitz I hear it’s good. Best KDE4 implementation. Oct 12 09:40
Eruaran k Oct 12 09:40
schestowitz Don’t reward Canonical for neglecting KDE. Oct 12 09:40
Eruaran I hate RPM distro’s though Oct 12 09:40
Eruaran Thats why I’ve been looking at Sidux Oct 12 09:41
schestowitz PetoKraus: patent = idea; copyright = expression. Oct 12 09:41
PetoKraus schestowitz: that’s oversimplifying Oct 12 09:41
schestowitz You can paraphrase. Oct 12 09:41
Eruaran Sidux is pretty much just Debian already set up for folks who want KDE Oct 12 09:41
schestowitz For each idea, there are almost-infinitely many implementations. You can’t work past them. Oct 12 09:42
schestowitz Eruaran: it works (the RPM) Oct 12 09:42
PetoKraus Eruaran: i don’t like to use “derivatives”, because they tend to have lower degree of support than the “mother” distro Oct 12 09:42
PetoKraus schestowitz: i don’t believe you (on the RPM) Oct 12 09:43
Eruaran Sidux is just Debian unstable Oct 12 09:43
schestowitz GUI just like Synaptic Oct 12 09:43
Eruaran Same repositories Oct 12 09:43
MinceR hay Oct 12 09:43
PetoKraus schestowitz: i don’t use gui, neither on my debian box, nor on my gentoo box Oct 12 09:44
PetoKraus apt-cache search && apt-get install…. Oct 12 09:44
schestowitz I was going to install Debian. Oct 12 09:44
PetoKraus the only problem with debian is, you can’t do much without enabling the debian.multimedia.org repositories Oct 12 09:44
Eruaran Debian KDE maintainers invited Jonathan Riddel to join them saying they need the help Oct 12 09:44
PetoKraus eg – there’s no DeCSS in debian’s repos (even in non-free) Oct 12 09:44
Eruaran thats no biggie Oct 12 09:45
PetoKraus i know Oct 12 09:45
PetoKraus and i’d rather like to enable custom repositories and keep my system quiet Oct 12 09:45
PetoKraus like having them enabled by default, and the system asking me about “what binary blob would you like to install today?” Oct 12 09:46
Eruaran I saw the dumbest thing Oct 12 09:47
Eruaran People complaining that Gnome doesn’t give you any way to configure screensavers that have config options Oct 12 09:47
schestowitz That might confuse the user. Oct 12 09:48
Eruaran And the maintainers opinion was that any screensaver that has configuration options is “inherently broken” Oct 12 09:48
PetoKraus well, gnome is weird. See epiphany? Oct 12 09:48
PetoKraus it WAS a good browser, light, fast Oct 12 09:48
schestowitz https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermai… Oct 12 09:49
PetoKraus then they removed almost every useful feature from it. I think, in next version it’ll be links*gtk Oct 12 09:49
schestowitz How tactless of Linus Oct 12 09:49
Eruaran So Ubuntu, for example, has slideshow screensavers that cannot be configured… like the Carosel, no pictures, so it just displays the default x image… Oct 12 09:49
MinceR lol Oct 12 09:50
trmanco http://forum.deluge-torrent.org/… Oct 12 09:50
Eruaran Linus was right Oct 12 09:50
Eruaran And things havent improved Oct 12 09:50
PetoKraus tactless, but correct Oct 12 09:50
Eruaran If you want to be able to choose some nice pictures that you like for your slideshow screensaver… use KDE Oct 12 09:51
Eruaran the kind of attitude displayed by some gnome developers is just plain retarded Oct 12 09:52
schestowitz I happened to read this 5 minutes ago (it’s new): http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2008/07/08/the-big… Oct 12 09:54
schestowitz ’twas in FSDaily Oct 12 09:55
Eruaran Linus was absolutely correct. I don’t think this kind of stupidity needs to be treated tactfully. Oct 12 09:56
Eruaran You can’t talk about usability when there isn’t a usable dialogue to use that does what the user wants to do at all. Oct 12 09:57
schestowitz Well, he wrote a patch Oct 12 09:58
Eruaran “” Oct 12 09:59
Eruaran But hey, just continue to remove all that confusing functionality from Oct 12 09:59
Eruaran Gnome.  I don’t care. I voted with my feet. Oct 12 09:59
Eruaran that quote didnt quite work right Oct 12 09:59
Eruaran :p Oct 12 09:59
schestowitz Well, gnome logo Oct 12 10:00
MinceR lol Oct 12 10:01
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PetoKraus oh man, that HAVOC guy is terrible troll Oct 12 10:28
schestowitz URL? Oct 12 10:28
schestowitz The Inquirer has had a very distracting menu picture since yesterday: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/… Oct 12 10:29
PetoKraus schestowitz: the linus rant follow up Oct 12 10:32
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schestowitz Well, and Linus *isn’t* a troll?  “And the technical term for somebody who claims to do user interface design and not understand this fact is a “FUCKING IDIOT”.” Oct 12 10:35
PetoKraus well, that point is true as well Oct 12 10:36
schestowitz He could say “fool” or “idiot” Oct 12 10:37
PetoKraus could, but didn’t Oct 12 10:37
PetoKraus that’s what language is for Oct 12 10:37
PetoKraus you express what you want to express. Oct 12 10:37
schestowitz He could get kicked had he not been Linus Oct 12 10:37
schestowitz *would Oct 12 10:37
PetoKraus https://lists.linux-foundation.org/piper… Oct 12 10:40
PetoKraus MONOron Oct 12 10:40
schestowitz I knew it was him… from the use of the word “muck” Oct 12 10:44
PetoKraus i mean, maybe gnome is still independent of mono Oct 12 10:44
PetoKraus upstream sources, that is. Oct 12 10:44
schestowitz It’s not dependent in partical terms. Oct 12 10:45
schestowitz But when distributed, there’s encouragement through availability to put Mono in there. Oct 12 10:45
PetoKraus but all those distributions packaging mono stuff with GNOME create the very evident illusion, that apps from GNOME depend on mono Oct 12 10:45
schestowitz There are many Mono Myths^TM Oct 12 10:46
schestowitz Mono Myth: Mono is fast, Java is slow (it’s not) Oct 12 10:46
schestowitz Weak spot: If patent  violations are found in Mono, the project will remove the code Oct 12 10:46
schestowitz Excuse: Mono’s .DLL and .EXE are just normal binaries (yeah, why ev en have /usr/bin… let’s just use c:/progra~1 too) Oct 12 10:47
schestowitz Excuse #2: It’s possible to ‘just’ remove Mono (dependency issue) Oct 12 10:47
schestowitz Lie: GNOME isn’t becoming dependent on Mono (good luck finding a GNOME distro  without Mono) Oct 12 10:48
schestowitz “He’s evil too” FUD pattern: “Mono is like Samba” (not:  http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/i… ) Oct 12 10:48
schestowitz Disinformation: Microsoft and .NET are ‘inevitable’ anyway (Novell propaganda) Oct 12 10:48
schestowitz Mono marketing: Mono allows programs to run also in other platforms (hey, we don’t need Linux anymore). Oct 12 10:49
schestowitz Selling point: It brings Windows developers in (woohoo! More boosters for MOOX, people who don’t care about freedom, urge us to love Microsoft despite its well-documented crimes) Oct 12 10:50
schestowitz Gymanastic in logic: It’s an ECMA standard (they have misconceptions about RAND and WinForms) Oct 12 10:50
schestowitz And so on… Oct 12 10:50
schestowitz Linux.com pimping proprietary software with DirectX: http://www.linux.com/feature/149902 Oct 12 10:52
trmanco “We know Google submits many bug fixes for Wine, and it is evident Oct 12 11:04
trmanco by the new Picasa V 3.0 beta which is lightning fast and puts Mono Oct 12 11:04
trmanco based application F-spot to shame.” Oct 12 11:04
trmanco haha Oct 12 11:04
PetoKraus why the hell does it have to be ran on wine Oct 12 11:05
trmanco http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1_1_6_Re… Oct 12 11:05
PetoKraus mirage <3<3 Oct 12 11:06
trmanco I really don’t know why Oct 12 11:06
trmanco here is another good one Oct 12 11:06
schestowitz It’s  not good if it replaces FOSS projects, even Mono. Oct 12 11:06
trmanco http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1_1_6_Rele… Oct 12 11:06
schestowitz It’s proprietary, it’s DirectX, it’s Windows. Oct 12 11:06
trmanco picassa directx? Oct 12 11:07
schestowitz They should move it to OpenGL and port it properly. Oct 12 11:07
trmanco have to look into that than Oct 12 11:07
schestowitz But I hear that former Microsoft employees in Google might help make silly acquisitions and dev decisions. Oct 12 11:07
PetoKraus ^^ Oct 12 11:08
PetoKraus he’s fucking’ killing google, i tell ya. Oct 12 11:08
PetoKraus i’m quite surprised Steve didn’t throw a chair at the eggthrower in Hungary. Oct 12 11:08
PetoKraus i guess he was just a bit perplex Oct 12 11:09
schestowitz This one is pretty funny: http://vivapinkfloyd.blogspot.com/2008/10/so… Oct 12 11:09
trmanco don’t agree with this one -> don’t install linux on a system with one sata and one ide drive (adding a hard disk will confuse it even more) Oct 12 11:10
trmanco my system has one sata and one ide drive Oct 12 11:10
trmanco works flawlessly Oct 12 11:11
schestowitz PetoKraus: Balmer is a Chihuahua:. It just barks. Oct 12 11:11
PetoKraus heh, i can’t imagine Paris carrying Ballmer in a dog-bag Oct 12 11:11
PetoKraus :D Oct 12 11:11
schestowitz “It was only a short matter of time after making that announcement before KDE 4.1 was released. And with that release have come new releases of distributions that use it. An excellent example of a KDE 4.1 DE/distribution release is, in my opinion, Mandriva 2009. The more I work with the latest version of Mandriva and KDE 4.1.2 the more comfortable I am with the entire distribution. I honestly haven’t felt this good about a Linux di Oct 12 11:13
schestowitz stribution using KDE since openSUSE 10.2 and KDE 3.” Oct 12 11:13
schestowitz http://blogbeebe.blogspot.com/2008/10/le… Oct 12 11:13
PetoKraus hmm, let’s fire the virtualisation engine,then Oct 12 11:15
schestowitz [H]omer seems to have removed this image: http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Yqciy1HgQBFQnM:http… Oct 12 11:15
PetoKraus schestowitz: so you use mandriva? Oct 12 11:16
schestowitz *LOL* http://farm2.static.flickr.com/… Oct 12 11:17
schestowitz Found it while looking at some BN links. Oct 12 11:18
schestowitz PetoKraus: yes. Oct 12 11:18
PetoKraus :) i like the concept of kde4.1 Oct 12 11:18
schestowitz THis one too: http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=t… Oct 12 11:18
PetoKraus though most of it was taken from E, and from MacOS Oct 12 11:18
schestowitz Eruaran: KDE 4 is catching on. Oct 12 11:18
schestowitz Yes, some of it is like E Oct 12 11:19
schestowitz Speaking of which, in the City of Ember, or whatever that new firm was called, the “E” seems to have been ‘stolen’ from Enlightenment. Oct 12 11:19
schestowitz *silm Oct 12 11:19
schestowitz *film Oct 12 11:19
PetoKraus yes Oct 12 11:20
PetoKraus let’s file copyright infringement Oct 12 11:20
PetoKraus right, i need to start operation barbarossa Oct 12 11:21
schestowitz Yes, no? ttp://www.cinematical.com/media/2008/05/coe_800x1185.jpg Oct 12 11:21
PetoKraus (ie, quest for history books…) Oct 12 11:21
schestowitz Yes? No? http://www.cinematical.com/media/2008/… Oct 12 11:21
PetoKraus it’s not really Oct 12 11:22
PetoKraus but i guess i could file a patent for “stylized typing of E in circular way” Oct 12 11:22
PetoKraus in the US, that’s it. Oct 12 11:22
schestowitz http://debianadmin.com/copper/albums/e17/n…/a> Oct 12 11:22
schestowitz http://linuxowns.files.wordpr… Oct 12 11:23
schestowitz PetoKraus: yes, e circles. Oct 12 11:23
PetoKraus schestowitz: the last one is my background ;) Oct 12 11:24
schestowitz Sue any publication mathematical with exponentials, too. Oct 12 11:24
PetoKraus :P Oct 12 11:24
schestowitz Made by you or used? Oct 12 11:24
PetoKraus used Oct 12 11:24
PetoKraus not made… it’s made by Thomas Haste. It’s amazing dark theme Oct 12 11:25
trmanco Debian is sexy -> http://debiansid.files.wordpress.com/2008/… Oct 12 11:25
PetoKraus doh Oct 12 11:25
PetoKraus make the eyes brown Oct 12 11:25
PetoKraus and i’ll love it. Oct 12 11:26
PetoKraus though, since we are talking debian, the girl is probably in her 80ties by now Oct 12 11:26
trmanco http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html Oct 12 11:26
schestowitz http://jaysonrowe.wordpress.com/2008/10/… “That’s pretty much all I’ve done. So far, nothing has crashed, Plasma has behaved itself and everything has “just worked”. Mandriva has made me forget that I’m using KDE 4, which is actually a good thing! “ Oct 12 11:28
trmanco http://www.dwheeler.com/fuzz-failure-rate.png Oct 12 11:28
schestowitz http://jaysonrowe.files.wordpress…. Oct 12 11:29
trmanco cool Oct 12 11:29
trmanco new mandriva Oct 12 11:30
schestowitz PetoKraus: 80s? Why? She’s good looking. Oct 12 11:30
schestowitz trmanco: KDE4 is calming down. The whole noise will vanish, just as Seigo predicated. it was the same with 3.0. Oct 12 11:30
schestowitz *predicted. Oct 12 11:30
schestowitz They have a very strong foundation now. Eruaran would be thrilled. Oct 12 11:31
trmanco looks better than any gnome based distro imo Oct 12 11:31
trmanco even tho gnome is my favorite Oct 12 11:32
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schestowitz Ubuntu should aim for a niche and make that Debian wallpaper its default Oct 12 11:34
schestowitz At least that way, people would start saying that Ubuntu is not ugly. Oct 12 11:34
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schestowitz IP Innovation v Red Hat and Novell – 1 Year Later http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=… Oct 12 11:40
schestowitz Mandriva 2009: Is It Better Than Mac Or Windows! http://www.efytimes.com/efytimes/29437/news.htm Oct 12 11:43
trmanco http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2008/07/… Oct 12 11:44
trmanco the author of the article has a good point there Oct 12 11:44
schestowitz Implicit save Oct 12 11:45
schestowitz http://weblog.obso1337.org/2008/implicit-save/ Oct 12 11:46
trmanco lol Oct 12 11:49
trmanco well the way that kde does the save is a better way Oct 12 11:49
trmanco gnome should have some settings with implicit save and some others without Oct 12 11:50
schestowitz New: “There are some distros that even go too far in trying to make a distro “newbie” friendly and in the interest of making a few things super easy to find or do, actually remove some of the capability or productiveness overall. That isn’t productive either.” http://linuxgeeksunited.blogspot.com/200… Oct 12 12:08
schestowitz Another reasons to avoid Monovell: “I really do not understand why Net is not backwards compatible but I suppose at least I should be happy that the libraries can co-exist instead of the old DLL hell. Microsofts attempt to replace Java could have been implemented in a better way.” http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?si… Oct 12 12:14
schestowitz http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/12… http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/… Oct 12 12:38
benJIman .net 3.5 is fairly backwards compatible with 2. 2 wasn’t with 1 because of how they implemented generics. Java compromised on the generics implementation making them more difficult for developers to understand and losing some of the performance benefits to maintain backwards compatibility. Oct 12 12:42
benJIman Java is not entirely backwards/forwards compatible either. Oct 12 12:43
*Eruaran is thrilled Oct 12 12:59
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twitter good morning, all. Oct 12 14:29
schestowitz Moin. Oct 12 14:30
twitter schestowitz: patent = invention.  Ideas, as you know, are a dime a dozen.  Inventions are specific, practical and non obvious combinations of ideas.  A patent that covers an idea would be broad enough to be a method patent. Oct 12 14:32
twitter Hey, this is good news, “the rules in patent cases force the parties early on to place their cards on the table” Oct 12 14:35
twitter That will make it a lot harder for M$ to use patents to shake down free software. Oct 12 14:36
twitter Unless they Tojan most distributions with mono. Oct 12 14:36
schestowitz I’m writing about this right now. Oct 12 14:39
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twitter cool Oct 12 14:45
twitter what was funny about that vivapinkfloyd page? Oct 12 14:45
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twitter the guy is either a moron or a FUDster. Oct 12 14:45
twitter three firefox tabs under five seconds does what?  I just opened five in under three and it did nothing. Oct 12 14:47
PetoKraus doh Oct 12 14:47
PetoKraus belkin is shite Oct 12 14:47
twitter it goes downhill from there. Oct 12 14:47
twitter RMS has been blogging the cost of global warming for a while. Oct 12 14:50
twitter the extermination of fisheries and cropland has almost incalculable costs. Oct 12 14:51
twitter One of the worst predictions is the halting of the gulf stream and other deep ocean currents.  This could make the oceans look like the Black Sea. Oct 12 14:52
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twitter Weakened currents and warmer temperatures in northern California waters has already done a lot of damage. Oct 12 14:54
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc4-broo2-0-0-cust1012.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell Oct 12 14:54
twitter A cycle of doubt and flood is another thing predicted by global warming models.  That’s what “extreme” weather ends up doing to crops. Oct 12 14:55
twitter It’s not something you can make crops resistant to, so “climate change ready” seeds are a lie.  A drought resistant corn, for example, won’t be flood resistant and the crop will fail one way or the other. Oct 12 14:57
twitter Then there is the northward migration of tropical disease and pests.  Pine beetles have already taken a bite out of forestry. Oct 12 14:58
twitter Positive feedback mechanisms, like methane released from melting permafrost and warmer oceans, is also being documented.  It may already be too late to halt. Oct 12 15:00
schestowitz I’ll need your help. Oct 12 15:01
schestowitz We need to petition distros. Let me just post it first Oct 12 15:01
PetoKraus umm, interesting Oct 12 15:01
twitter Petition what, KDE support? Oct 12 15:03
schestowitz .This is urgent as OOo3 is out tomorrow and Novell may try publicity stunts: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/12/mic… Please pass on to people who can help. Oct 12 15:07
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PetoKraus alright, it’s starting to get annoying Oct 12 15:10
schestowitz It’s starting to get Microsoft. Oct 12 15:16
benJIman O_o Oct 12 15:25
benJIman You do realise go-ooo is about sun using a non-free licence for their version of openoffice and not accepting free software patches from the community unless copyright is assigned to them> Oct 12 15:26
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schestowitz I realise that  go-ooo is about polluting OOo. Oct 12 15:31
benJIman What makes you think Novell are even involved? Oct 12 15:32
benJIman Just because Michael Meeks is involved? Oct 12 15:32
benJIman Today’s articles surpass your usual standard for unsubstantiated misinformation and FUD. Oct 12 15:34
benJIman ” we won’t link to actual examples as that would feed Novell’s insidious messages.” rofl Oct 12 15:34
schestowitz They use a so-called ‘community’ to hide involvement. Oct 12 15:34
schestowitz “I’m just a hacker” Oct 12 15:34
schestowitz Same BS as Mono. Oct 12 15:35
schestowitz benJIman: are you here to police on behalf of Novell or just on behalf of your beloved SUSE? Oct 12 15:35
benJIman schestowitz: Have you actually got a problem with a single thing go-ooo has done? I only see a lot of complaining that Novell is contributing to free software. Oct 12 15:36
schestowitz You haven’t read carefully enough, methinks. :-D Oct 12 15:40
benJIman I did read the whole “article”. Oct 12 15:43
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twitter Here’s a specific complaint, they use LGPL http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html Oct 12 16:52
twitter If they were friends of software freedom and had something special, they should use GPL instead. Oct 12 16:53
twitter Roy’s other complaints were specific as well, Benjie, and you have not really unseated them by mentioning a Novell paid contributor to the project. Oct 12 17:00
benJIman twitter: I don’t see any complaints. Oct 12 17:00
benJIman Unless you count the rambling about mono. Oct 12 17:01
twitter His most specific complaint is that go-oo.org is offering something that only Novell customers will be able to use. Oct 12 17:01
benJIman Why’s that? Oct 12 17:01
twitter Patents Oct 12 17:01
benJIman Upstream oo has ooxml support too, go-oo oo doesn’t have a hard dependency on mono. Oct 12 17:01
benJIman So what’s the difference again? Oct 12 17:02
twitter You tell me why go-oo exists. Oct 12 17:02
benJIman Because sun would not accept significant community contributions without copyright assignment. Oct 12 17:02
mib_prbh5a er twitter, you might want to read http://www.openoffice.org/license.html – OpenOffice itself is released under the LGPL ;) Oct 12 17:03
twitter that’s a shame. Oct 12 17:03
mib_prbh5a but the decision of the people who created it. Oct 12 17:03
benJIman You could fork it as a GPLed version too, the lgpl is gpl compatible. Oct 12 17:03
twitter brb Oct 12 17:04
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twitter Go-oo claimed the upstream sources were under more restrictive licenses.  Was that a lie? Oct 12 17:16
twitter Now that they are under the same license, why have a go-oo.org? Oct 12 17:16
twitter When you release source under a copyleft license, why worry about copyright assignment?  Isn’t it better to assign your copyright to a larger organization that can defend copyleft terms? Oct 12 17:17
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twitter The problem of patents is unanswered by a fork, especially a fork loaded with Novell supplied OOXML code. Oct 12 17:18
twitter This fork does not look honest and I don’t think sensible distributions are going to embrace it. Oct 12 17:19
twitter Isn’t OOXML itself patent encumbered Benjie? Oct 12 17:23
twitter If it is, go-ooxml.org does not need mono for M$ to squash it, wasting all of the developer time spent there. Oct 12 17:24
twitter It’s easier for M$ to cry about patent infringement on their formats and language than it is for them to use them against Linux itself.  Would this be why Novell is stuffing Gnome with mono and OO with OOXML? Oct 12 17:27
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trmanco http://dot.kde.org/1223822418/ Oct 12 17:51
trmanco “The KDE Community today launches the new KDE Forum. The new forum uses the bulletin board software MyBB offering users, developers and people interested in KDE a place to help each other, discuss KDE-related topics and exchange ideas.” Oct 12 17:51
trmanco http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/linux… Oct 12 17:52
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schestowitz twitter: fair points. It’s worth including in a followup Oct 12 19:35
schestowitz trmanco: “MyBB Released as GPL” Oct 12 19:35
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schestowitz Someone mail me a translation of:  http://www.riksdagen.se/webbnav/?n… Oct 12 19:36
schestowitz …A parliamentary representative from the far right is proposing to require use of open source in the public sector… Oct 12 19:36
schestowitz …FOSS allows for better oversight of government work and are of good economic value even outside government.  (Note: Sweden is one giant corporate welfare state with many government services now provided by private companies which do an expensive, limited, poor job.) Oct 12 19:36
schestowitz zoobab: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10063464-16.html http://www.heise.de/english/new… Oct 12 19:37
schestowitz <schestowitz>  IP Innovation v Red Hat and Novell – 1 Year Later http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=200… Oct 12 19:37
schestowitz http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7662565.stm “The global economy is losing more money from the disappearance of forests than through the current banking crisis, according to an EU-commissioned study. It puts the annual cost of forest loss at between $2 trillion and $5 trillion.” Oct 12 20:08
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schestowitz The post about OOo seems to be well received in Digg… http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_Novell_Fork_Op… Oct 12 20:36
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brunomiguel hello :) Oct 12 20:44
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schestowitz Hey, brunomiguel Oct 12 20:47
brunomiguel hello schestowitz Oct 12 20:48
trmanco http://blog.softwarelivre.sapo.pt/2008/10/12/fc… Oct 12 20:50
trmanco Hi Oct 12 20:50
brunomiguel trmanco: viva Oct 12 20:50
trmanco :-) Oct 12 20:50
brunomiguel trmanco: obscene expenses with mostly with dictatorware Oct 12 20:50
trmanco Oct 12 20:51
trmanco that is our tax money that pays for a bloated system Oct 12 20:51
brunomiguel sad and true :\ Oct 12 20:52
brunomiguel here in Coimbra, 5 million euros to a microsoft thing. damn lot of money, at least from my standpoint Oct 12 20:57
trmanco 5 million euros just from coimbra is a lot of money, considering the country we are living in Oct 12 20:58
trmanco http://translate.google.com/translate?u=h… Oct 12 20:59
trmanco tranlated version Oct 12 20:59
trmanco translated * Oct 12 20:59
brunomiguel for me it’s a fortune that i would glady receive, if they care to give it to me :) Oct 12 20:59
trmanco 1/2 of it would do for me Oct 12 21:00
brunomiguel the full thing or nothing ;) Oct 12 21:01
trmanco lol Oct 12 21:01
trmanco don’t get to greedy Oct 12 21:02
brunomiguel who? me?? no Oct 12 21:02
brunomiguel :P Oct 12 21:02
schestowitz What does Rui say? Oct 12 21:03
brunomiguel schestowitz: read this to get an idea http://translate.google.com/translate?u=htt… Oct 12 21:07
schestowitz Microsoft almost bought SAP Oct 12 21:11
schestowitz They are very close. They also use Novell because it’s Microsoft-’approved’ Oct 12 21:11
schestowitz Same with other industry allies of Microsoft. Oct 12 21:12
brunomiguel the army of evil xD Oct 12 21:12
schestowitz http://fowa.phreadz.com/v/3RUDOQM3UOCH/ Oct 12 21:15
brunomiguel can’t watch it. i don’t have gnash or any other free flah implementation installed. :\ Oct 12 21:16
brunomiguel *flash Oct 12 21:16
schestowitz Yes, I know. Oct 12 21:16
schestowitz Sorry. Oct 12 21:17
brunomiguel maybe clive can download it Oct 12 21:17
schestowitz It’s about the economy. Oct 12 21:18
schestowitz Context/background: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/… Oct 12 21:18
zoobab http://www.epo.org/topics/news/2008/20081009.html Oct 12 21:20
zoobab EPO lobbies the EU Oct 12 21:20
schestowitz Interesting, thanks. Oct 12 21:22
trmanco schestowitz, how is that M$-Mono email thing going? Oct 12 21:23
schestowitz No answer yes. Oct 12 21:25
schestowitz Tick tick. Oct 12 21:25
trmanco lol Oct 12 21:25
schestowitz Someone volunteered to do a well-researched post on Mono problems and solutions to it (replacement) Oct 12 21:29
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seller_liar hey roy Oct 12 22:03
seller_liar m$ releases M , a new programming language based in…….XAML! Oct 12 22:03
schestowitz Meh. Oct 12 22:05
schestowitz Linux has just been renamed “L” ;-0 Oct 12 22:05
schestowitz And Microsoft renamed embedded Windows… because changing a name will /REALLY/ makes Linux nervous where it already dominates. ;-) Oct 12 22:06
schestowitz Nowadays in Digg people vote just for Linux fanboism and MS bashing. Eve the site’s founder is concerned about it. It’s no hub for news. Oct 12 22:10
seller_liar patents and proprietary software have a lot of coincidences Oct 12 22:30
seller_liar the two EXPECT to make millions Oct 12 22:30
MinceR you forgot the crApple bias. Oct 12 22:30
seller_liar is different to gain million with work Oct 12 22:31
schestowitz It’s perceived value Oct 12 22:31
seller_liar for example Oct 12 22:31
schestowitz Watch the talk from Tim Bray. It’s very good. Oct 12 22:31
schestowitz very timely. Oct 12 22:31
*brunomiguel has quit (“asta la mañana :)”) Oct 12 22:31
MinceR gn Oct 12 22:31
seller_liar i make a very good software no matter I pay for this ,but later I will price my software 1000000x of cost Oct 12 22:32
schestowitz gn. A lot of things are valued by belief, e.g. certificates versus something hard like food of fuel. Oct 12 22:32
seller_liar patents and proprietary software gives the price control for owners ,not for users Oct 12 22:33
*schestowitz thinks of those 1960s-like shows where Little Johnny “made a patent” and “made a million”. Ahhh.. the daze [sic] of Hollywood dreamin’ Oct 12 22:33
benJIman twitter: Well debian and ubuntu already did. And as I already said, upstream has ooxml support too, it wasn’t introduced in the fork. Oct 12 22:36
seller_liar hey roy did you understand my ideas about charles and bertrand? Oct 12 22:36
schestowitz Yes, thanks. Oct 12 22:42
schestowitz You could state this in public. Oct 12 22:42
seller_liar you can copy my dialog for  the public ,but delete some names from there Oct 12 22:48
seller_liar or change the names for seller_liar Oct 12 22:50
seller_liar for example seller_liar is stupid! Oct 12 22:50
seller_liar “I will teach some tips for destroy seller_liar Oct 12 22:51
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 22:59:11 2008
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 12 22:59:11 2008
twitter ick, benjie, you are right.  http://packages.debian.org/testing/editor… Oct 12 23:30
twitter I don’t often use OO much less keep up with it’s development. Oct 12 23:31
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benJIman twitter: And go-oo didn’t introduce ooxml, it is in upstream. Oct 12 23:31
benJIman twitter: And mono is not required by go-oo. Oct 12 23:31
benJIman So in summary, the entire article is incorrect. Oct 12 23:31
twitter No, OO.org is still a trap.  I imagine the strategy is to take what it gives and tell M$ FU when they come knocking. Oct 12 23:31
twitter ha ha. Oct 12 23:32
twitter They won’t be around much longer anyway. Oct 12 23:32
*BillyCrook_ (n=BillyCro@unaffiliated/billycrook) has left #boycottnovell Oct 12 23:44
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  28. Gemini Links 29/05/2023: Rosy Crow 1.1.1 and Smolver 1.2.1 Released

    Links for the day

  29. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, May 28, 2023

    IRC logs for Sunday, May 28, 2023

  30. Daniel Stenberg Knows Almost Nothing About Gemini and He's Likely Just Protecting His Turf (HTTP/S)

    The man behind Curl, Daniel Stenberg, criticises Gemini; but it's not clear if he even bothered trying it (except very briefly) or just read some inaccurate, one-sided blurbs about it

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