03.13.09

^{Gemini version available ♊︎}

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 12th, 2009 – Part 3

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:17 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

twitter	the same two are in a much tighter, and happier looking, people pile here https://usshop.ubuntu.com/imag…	Mar 12 21:20
balzac	gay people ought to be represented in marketing campaigns	Mar 12 21:21
twitter	I don’t look at any of those pictures and imagine the models taking warm showers together	Mar 12 21:21
balzac	but unless a particular niche market is the focus of the campaign, no particular group should be appear to be the one you’re marketing to	Mar 12 21:22
twitter	I’m more than a little tired of marketing campaigns	Mar 12 21:23
balzac	neither do I	Mar 12 21:23
balzac	I’d say the group is a bit too tidy looking as well	Mar 12 21:23
balzac	where’s the fat guy, the old guy, the pony-tail?	Mar 12 21:24
balzac	that’s a lot of chicks for a software scene	Mar 12 21:24
twitter	that’s how marketing campaigns are – use this and you will will be happy and healthy	Mar 12 21:24
balzac	right	Mar 12 21:24
twitter	Ubuntu seeks to create community. I can understand how they would like to have pictures of people happy and comfortable with each other.	Mar 12 21:25
balzac	well, authenticity strikes people more directly	Mar 12 21:26
balzac	it’s a little bit contrived	Mar 12 21:27
balzac	I could round up a gaggle of freaks and nerds and it would probably be a lot more representative of Ubuntu users and geeks in general	Mar 12 21:27
balzac	probably, those two dudes were laughing about how silly the combination of the posing and the slogan on the shirts were together.	Mar 12 21:28
balzac	whatever. all I know is that ad made Digg.com squirm. 800+ Diggs	Mar 12 21:29
balzac	http://digg.com/linux_unix…	Mar 12 21:30
balzac	I personally find Digg, as a demographic group is pretty juvenile, but they’re pretty well representative of the age and gender demographics of ubuntu as well	Mar 12 21:31
balzac	I suspect debian users are, on average, maybe 7-10 years older than ubuntu users	Mar 12 21:31
balzac	Digg has more ubuntu than debian users, in my estimation	Mar 12 21:31
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balzac	I thought naming Fedora “Leonidas” was a bit of a marketing flub as well	Mar 12 21:33
balzac	code-name	Mar 12 21:33
twitter	M$ community http://bayimg.com/EaGCLAABL	Mar 12 21:35
twitter	I added the Nazis on the left, but the black shirted wonder twins and horror painting on the right are all part of the original image.	Mar 12 21:36
twitter	yes, I misspelled conformity	Mar 12 21:36
_Hicham_	what do u think of Mark Shuttleworth?	Mar 12 21:41
schestowitz	Balrog_: no point writing about the French migration. It’s covered widely already. Old news too (last year they announced the migration in AP)	Mar 12 21:47
twitter	I don’t know Shuttleworth. He says he believes in freedom and wants Ubuntu to be free. I’ve never heard anything bad about him.	Mar 12 21:47
twitter	here’s a little fun for the bayimg vista page http://bayimg.com/dAoeBAaBE	Mar 12 21:48
balzac	I think Shuttleworth is a natural leader	Mar 12 21:48
balzac	good guy	Mar 12 21:48
balzac	perhaps a bit overly-diplomatic	Mar 12 21:49
balzac	I have the same complaint about Obama, but he’s turned out pretty successful	Mar 12 21:49
twitter	I liked this image better though, http://bayimg.com/pAhGMaaBi	Mar 12 21:50
balzac	nice one twitter	Mar 12 21:50
twitter	thanks	Mar 12 21:50
balzac	perfect conformity, world domination, what could go wrong?	Mar 12 21:50
twitter	everything	Mar 12 21:51
twitter	ha ha	Mar 12 21:51
balzac	and pretty uniformly one ethnic group and one gender	Mar 12 21:51
balzac	not much age variation there either	Mar 12 21:51
twitter	I see one or two females and a couple of brown guys all technically Caucasian. Can’t say much for ethnicity from here but know they all have to worship Bill Gates and greed to wear the black shirt.	Mar 12 21:54
*Eruaran has quit (“http://quassel-irc.org – Chat comfortably. Anywhere.”)		Mar 12 21:55
schestowitz	LOL Longhorn academy	Mar 12 21:58
balzac	twitter: you could just be a smart conformist who stumbles into that group	Mar 12 21:59
balzac	they can’t all be ambitious pricks, there have to be a few token normal folks	Mar 12 21:59
schestowitz	http://www.bloomberg.com/apps… “Economist Carl B. Shapiro, who endorsed the Clinton administration’s plan to break up Microsoft Corp. as an expert witness, has rejoined the U.S. Justice Department as the antitrust division’s chief economist, people familiar with the appointment said. “	Mar 12 22:00
schestowitz	Tiemann sent me a headsup	Mar 12 22:01
schestowitz	*headsup	Mar 12 22:01
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Mar 12 22:02
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell		Mar 12 22:03
balzac	what about?	Mar 12 22:05
schestowitz	Let’s see who stuffs the authorities with more cronies	Mar 12 22:06
schestowitz	Microsoft is trying to poison ObamAA	Mar 12 22:06
schestowitz	Vassallo: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/0…	Mar 12 22:06
schestowitz	Varney: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/19/chris…	Mar 12 22:06
schestowitz	Barnett: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/…	Mar 12 22:06
balzac	Roy, pass this along to Tiemann, please	Mar 12 22:06
balzac	http://www.oteltours.com/fedora_le…	Mar 12 22:06
balzac	jk	Mar 12 22:06
schestowitz	no	Mar 12 22:06
balzac	I’m taking that down	Mar 12 22:07
balzac	it’s too silly	Mar 12 22:07
schestowitz	it is	Mar 12 22:07
schestowitz	kind of kinky	Mar 12 22:07
_Hicham_	Microsoft will adopt Linux	Mar 12 22:08
_Hicham_	and provide open source solutions to its customers	Mar 12 22:08
_Hicham_	since they can’t afford to secure the whole crap	Mar 12 22:08
balzac	In 1987, I realized that GNU software was some of the best software to be found anywhere, and that the GNU Manifesto was really a business plan in disguise.	Mar 12 22:08
balzac	from:http://people.redhat.com/tiemann/	Mar 12 22:09
balzac	smart guy	Mar 12 22:09
balzac	It’s a good way to see the inherent opportunity in the GNU Manifesto, although it’s more than that.	Mar 12 22:10
schestowitz	Someone mailed me this:	Mar 12 22:11
schestowitz	“Richard A. Epstein is the James Parker Hall Distinguished Service Professor of Law, at the University of Chicago, the Peter and Kirsten Bedford Senior Fellow, the Hoover Institution, and a visiting professor at New York University Law School. He has consulted from time to time with Microsoft. ” http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d28ecf10-fd46…	Mar 12 22:11
schestowitz	Short story: Financial Times Gives Room for Microsoft Drones to Publish Attacks on EU Commission	Mar 12 22:11
schestowitz	opensuse download resorted only just now (2 days later): [opensuse-announce] Update: download.opensuse.org Restored	Mar 12 22:12
MinceR	they might adopt some random *bsd instead	Mar 12 22:13
benJIman	Actually most functionality was restored early yesterday, with a few issues that were resolved today.~	Mar 12 22:13
MinceR	m$, that is.	Mar 12 22:13
Balrog_	amazon / kindle mess	Mar 12 22:17
Balrog_	http://yro.slashdot.org/article…	Mar 12 22:17
Balrog_	http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sh…	Mar 12 22:17
Balrog_	this was a tool to allow you to use non-kindle books on kindle (basically mobiread-type ebooks)	Mar 12 22:18
_Hicham_	http://osnews.com/story/21035/Ballme…	Mar 12 22:18
Balrog_	_Hicham_: I saw that a week or two ago	Mar 12 22:19
schestowitz	_Hicham_: Remember that only a few Microsoft products are profitable (and only in wealthy countries where margins eroded too). They now try to sell hardware (shops), patent licences, and services (with limited success). Zune and XBox (DRM on hardware) cost them billions.	Mar 12 22:19
Balrog_	between Apple and Linux, MS will lose	Mar 12 22:19
schestowitz	I spoke to Bill Parish once and I still talk to Microsoft shareholders. I reckon Bill and Steve bluff a lot. Con artists are a dime a dozen these days.	Mar 12 22:19
schestowitz	Wow, I can’t wait to make a post with some new info I got	Mar 12 22:20
schestowitz	http://finance.yahoo.com/q/cq?d…	Mar 12 22:20
schestowitz	Microsoft is in trouble	Mar 12 22:21
MinceR	i hope crApple will lose too	Mar 12 22:21
MinceR	we can’t afford to have another microsoft.	Mar 12 22:21
Balrog_	MinceR: that’s not going to happen.	Mar 12 22:21
_Hicham_	here in Morocco, almost every windows copy is pirated	Mar 12 22:21
schestowitz	“BTW, Morgan Stanley put out a research note reducing their earnings expectations for Microsoft. The note said that the PC industry was going to be down dramatically in 2009 and MSFT wasn’t going to sell as much. Look how it affected their stock, and the stocks of others that may be related to such news”	Mar 12 22:21
schestowitz	“I actually think that the idea of an actual enforcer in DOJ, not the reasons given in the MS downgrade, is what’s behind MSFT’s contrary motion.”	Mar 12 22:21
schestowitz	_Hicham_: yes, in most of the world	Mar 12 22:21
schestowitz	Else, they move to Linux	Mar 12 22:22
schestowitz	Or sell PCs with Linux	Mar 12 22:22
_Hicham_	in the universities also here	Mar 12 22:22
Balrog_	Apple will probably get 33% of market share at most [maximum ever], IMO	Mar 12 22:22
_Hicham_	in the government offices	Mar 12 22:22
schestowitz	MinceR: Apple is too expensive	Mar 12 22:22
_Hicham_	everything is pirated	Mar 12 22:22
schestowitz	It targets rich people who buy ‘dreams’	Mar 12 22:22
_Hicham_	piracy kills linux	Mar 12 22:22
schestowitz	That’s why Microsoft loves counterfeiting	Mar 12 22:22
schestowitz	WIndows is gratis	Mar 12 22:23
MinceR	schestowitz: which could mean that we won’t have any choice if we want powerful pcs.	Mar 12 22:23
schestowitz	They charge only if they can fool the costimer	Mar 12 22:23
schestowitz	Or can afford to take her/him to court	Mar 12 22:23
_Hicham_	I think that we should help Microsoft enforce their anti-piracy policy	Mar 12 22:23
Balrog_	Apple products still are more polished and mature (talking from a UI and end-user-experience point of view) level	Mar 12 22:23
Balrog_	_Hicham_: The BSA is nasty	Mar 12 22:23
_Hicham_	if no one can pirate Windows, sure Linux will win	Mar 12 22:23
MinceR	Balrog_: that’s not my experience.	Mar 12 22:23
Balrog_	MinceR: explain…or do you want a copy of Windows in your OS?	Mar 12 22:24
_Hicham_	BSA is not sufficient	Mar 12 22:24
Balrog_	(meaning, do you want to have a ‘clone’ of the Windows-UI)	Mar 12 22:24
MinceR	Balrog_: i’ve found osx to be extremely limited and their HIG to be bullshit.	Mar 12 22:24
MinceR	even that’s preferable to a clone of the macos gui	Mar 12 22:24
schestowitz	BSA: friends of Gates family	Mar 12 22:24
Balrog_	the HIG descend from the original mac GUI	Mar 12 22:25
schestowitz	People who worked for Billy’s dad	Mar 12 22:25
Balrog_	which MS took from	Mar 12 22:25
_Hicham_	it is not necessary to copy from an OS	Mar 12 22:25
MinceR	at least they didn’t take all the stupidity	Mar 12 22:25
MinceR	and btw apple stole from xerox	Mar 12 22:25
Balrog_	well, I find it more efficient with the OS X gui and all	Mar 12 22:25
MinceR	let’s not pretend apple invented the wheel.	Mar 12 22:25
Balrog_	Xerox invested in Apple	Mar 12 22:25
Omar87	Hello everyone.	Mar 12 22:25
MinceR	invested? that’s very far from the story i’ve heard.	Mar 12 22:25
_Hicham_	Hello Omar!	Mar 12 22:26
Balrog_	“Xerox invested $1 million in Apple by purchasing 100,000 shares at $10 each. Furthermore, Xerox signed an agreement with Apple to never purchase more than 5 percent of Apple’s outstanding shares. Within a year, these shares split into 800,000 worth $17.6 million when Apple went public”	Mar 12 22:26
Omar87	_Hicham_: Hey!	Mar 12 22:26
Balrog_	http://www.vectronicsappleworl…	Mar 12 22:26
Balrog_	I’ll find another source if you wish	Mar 12 22:26
Balrog_	also read folklore.org	Mar 12 22:26
schestowitz	Balrog_: and now MS invests in Apple	Mar 12 22:27
Balrog_	it says it right in the wikipedia article	Mar 12 22:27
Balrog_	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A…	Mar 12 22:27
schestowitz	So Microsoft steals from Apple	Mar 12 22:27
Balrog_	well, MS did invest in apple	Mar 12 22:27
schestowitz	Like Apple ‘stole’ from Xerox	Mar 12 22:27
Balrog_	I don’t know how it is now	Mar 12 22:27
MinceR	so m$ didn’t steal either?	Mar 12 22:27
Balrog_	MS stole in a different way	Mar 12 22:27
MinceR	how so?	Mar 12 22:27
schestowitz	MS claimed ctredit	Mar 12 22:27
schestowitz	They called it “Windows”	Mar 12 22:27
Balrog_	actually it turned out to be the stupidity of Apple’s CEO	Mar 12 22:27
MinceR	so did apple	Mar 12 22:28
schestowitz	So you’ll think they pioneered it	Mar 12 22:28
MinceR	apple keeps claiming credit for all sorts of things they didn’t invent	Mar 12 22:28
_Hicham_	the two Steves love each other	Mar 12 22:28
Balrog_	back in the late 80′s Sculley perpetually licensed the GUI elements to MS	Mar 12 22:28
MinceR	so do the apple fanboys on their behalf	Mar 12 22:28
schestowitz	_Hicham_: one calls Linux cancer, another Steve has it	Mar 12 22:28
Balrog_	“Apple came up with a list of 189 GUI elements; the judge decided that 179 of these elements had been licensed to Microsoft in the Windows 1.0 agreement”	Mar 12 22:28
MinceR	schestowitz: lol	Mar 12 22:28
Balrog_	the rest were obvious or not original to Apple	Mar 12 22:29
Balrog_	see http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py…	Mar 12 22:30
schestowitz	Micron goes banandas < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire… >	Mar 12 22:31
schestowitz	When will apple go bananas too?	Mar 12 22:31
schestowitz	NAND prices up by 90 per cent < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire… > Deflation. eh?	Mar 12 22:31
schestowitz	brb, I’ve got to shower	Mar 12 22:31
Balrog_	Apple needs those 32GB chips	Mar 12 22:32
Balrog_	here’s the page on the UI ideas and PARC	Mar 12 22:32
Balrog_	http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.p…	Mar 12 22:32
MinceR	how significant was xerox’s investment in apple back then, compared to capital apple already had?	Mar 12 22:33
Balrog_	“When Apple went public a couple years later, Xerox’ investment suddenly became worth over $17 million, far more than it made on the Star itself.”	Mar 12 22:33
MinceR	that doesn’t answer my question	Mar 12 22:34
Balrog_	I’m trying to find how much aapl was when it went public	Mar 12 22:35
Balrog_	oh … how much capital they had?	Mar 12 22:35
MinceR	well, their market cap at the point they went public is probably sufficient	Mar 12 22:35
Balrog_	they did have good Apple II sales	Mar 12 22:35
MinceR	if we know whether what xerox invested is part of that or not	Mar 12 22:35
Balrog_	another thing…do you think apple should have ‘allowed’ people to clone the Mac?	Mar 12 22:37
Balrog_	I find that not possible, due to the fact that much of the OS was burned-in-ROM and on the logic board	Mar 12 22:38
Balrog_	MinceR: any good reference for such info?	Mar 12 22:39
Balrog_	(like historical market cap)	Mar 12 22:40
MinceR	nope — i’ve never done such research before	Mar 12 22:40
Balrog_	ok :/	Mar 12 22:40
Balrog_	yeah … the rom thing was a problem for cloners	Mar 12 22:40
MinceR	i don’t know if yahoo or google have such info	Mar 12 22:40
Balrog_	I looked … they have prices but not cap	Mar 12 22:40
MinceR	i think cloning the mac would have opened new possibilities for the market	Mar 12 22:41
MinceR	and would have been technically advantageous	Mar 12 22:41
MinceR	but by no means the only way	Mar 12 22:41
Balrog_	no, the problem was more with Jean-Louis Gasee	Mar 12 22:41
Balrog_	(if I spelled it right)	Mar 12 22:41
Balrog_	he felt that macs should be very, very expensive	Mar 12 22:41
MinceR	strange… didn’t they have the lisa for that?	Mar 12 22:41
Balrog_	at one point the price range was $3500 – $12000, if my numbers are right	Mar 12 22:42
Balrog_	nope, that happened after jobs was kicked out	Mar 12 22:42
Balrog_	the original mac was $2500, which wasn’t that bad for the day	Mar 12 22:42
MinceR	btw, i find the sinclair ql much more interesting than the original mac at that time	Mar 12 22:42
Balrog_	explain	Mar 12 22:42
Balrog_	it didn’t have resources, fonts, a gui, menus, etc, etc	Mar 12 22:43
MinceR	http://www.qlvsjaguar.homepage.bluewin.ch/…	Mar 12 22:43
MinceR	to me what’s most important is that it was the first pc with preemptive multitasking	Mar 12 22:43
MinceR	at a time when most pcs didn’t even have multitasking in any form	Mar 12 22:43
MinceR	they did seem to have a gui, too — though that might have been app-dependent	Mar 12 22:44
Balrog_	remember … the mac had 64kb of ROM, 128 kb RAM, and a 400kb disk	Mar 12 22:44
MinceR	and no multitasking	Mar 12 22:45
MinceR	and no colors	Mar 12 22:45
Balrog_	and you had room for OS, an application, and a few documents in that	Mar 12 22:45
Balrog_	I’d take the mac’s screen of those days over any color screen of those days	Mar 12 22:45
MinceR	the worst thing about the mac was the concept, though	Mar 12 22:45
MinceR	designing a computer for idiots	Mar 12 22:45
schestowitz	Logo too	Mar 12 22:45
schestowitz	An apple a day	Mar 12 22:46
Balrog_	because the computers of the day were extremely hard to use	Mar 12 22:46
schestowitz	But they spend a lot of marketing now	Mar 12 22:46
schestowitz	300m per year	Mar 12 22:46
MinceR	i don’t remember my sinclair zx spectrum being extremely hard to use :>	Mar 12 22:46
Balrog_	did you have to type obscure commands?	Mar 12 22:46
MinceR	i had to type commands in basic	Mar 12 22:46
Balrog_	yeah, that’s not what people want	Mar 12 22:47
MinceR	i had a manual, sadly it was in german — later i got manuals in hungarian	Mar 12 22:47
Balrog_	people want something you plug in and it works	Mar 12 22:47
MinceR	i don’t care what people want, i care about what’s powerful and what gets the job done :>	Mar 12 22:47
MinceR	and most importantly, what i want	Mar 12 22:47
Balrog_	ok, original mac was $2500, the 512k-ram model was $2000 ……	Mar 12 22:47
Balrog_	well what about wysiwyg?	Mar 12 22:48
trmanco	http://groups.google.com/group/…	Mar 12 22:48
Balrog_	what-you-see-is-what-you-get?	Mar 12 22:48
MinceR	and a general-purpose computer will never expose all its functionality just by plugging it in, until it becomes capable of reading the thoughts of the user	Mar 12 22:48
MinceR	wysiwyg is overrated	Mar 12 22:48
Omar87	Guys, what do you think of those who say that Ubuntu didn’t create anything new, and that it’s just using what others have made?	Mar 12 22:48
MinceR	Omar87: they’re clueless	Mar 12 22:48
Balrog_	Under Gasee, a mac cost $3700 – $8700	Mar 12 22:49
Balrog_	gassee *	Mar 12 22:49
Omar87	Balrog_: What’s a Gassee?	Mar 12 22:49
MinceR	ubuntu created a debian spinoff with recent yet stable packages, a system that’s easier to start using and they started using at least one practice that i consider good practice	Mar 12 22:49
Balrog_	Gassee is a former head of Mac development at Apple	Mar 12 22:50
Balrog_	from the ’80s	Mar 12 22:50
MinceR	sure, they didn’t do most of the work — no one distro did	Mar 12 22:50
Balrog_	He wrote about Microsoft too	Mar 12 22:51
Balrog_	http://lists.essential.org/info-po…	Mar 12 22:51
Balrog_	“Jean-Louis Gassée on why PC manufacturers don’t sell non MS products”	Mar 12 22:51
Balrog_	in 1999	Mar 12 22:51
MinceR	i think the ‘ubuntu didn’t do anything’ lie comes from novell	Mar 12 22:51
Omar87	MinceR: Yeah, and I personally believe, that if it weren’t for Ubuntu, Linux would have likely never made it to the market at least for ten more years or so.	Mar 12 22:51
MinceR	as they tried to smear the most popular distro	Mar 12 22:51
Balrog_	good read	Mar 12 22:51
Balrog_	(he was behind BeOS for a while … good idea, not very mature/usable though)	Mar 12 22:52
MinceR	sadly, BeOS copied far too little from Unix	Mar 12 22:53
Balrog_	I’m getting a lot of error-500′s these days	Mar 12 22:53
Balrog_	Jobs was smarter with NEXT	Mar 12 22:53
MinceR	i recall at least one good idea from next	Mar 12 22:53
Balrog_	when it came to that part	Mar 12 22:53
MinceR	putting the scroll bar buttons next to each other :>	Mar 12 22:53
Balrog_	I have a cube that I am able to play with	Mar 12 22:53
Balrog_	MinceR: you know you can turn that on in OS X?	Mar 12 22:53
MinceR	i don’t	Mar 12 22:54
MinceR	via property lists?	Mar 12 22:54
Balrog_	no, Prefs –> Appearance	Mar 12 22:54
Balrog_	‘Place Scroll Arrows: Together / At top and bottom’	Mar 12 22:54
MinceR	it boggles the mind	Mar 12 22:54
MinceR	how can a single option hide among so few?	Mar 12 22:54
MinceR	anyway, i’ve turned it on in Qt and GTK+	Mar 12 22:55
MinceR		Mar 12 22:55
Balrog_	what other options do you want other than [a] non-unified menubar and [b] mousefocus?	Mar 12 22:55
Balrog_	(with property lists, you can have both scrollbuttons next to each other on both ends of the scrollbar )	Mar 12 22:55
MinceR	hard to tell	Mar 12 22:56
MinceR	i’ve tried to gather my thoughts about what i’ve gotten used to do and take for granted now	Mar 12 22:56
Balrog_	I personally can’t stand mousefocus	Mar 12 22:56
Balrog_	I can live with a non-unified menubar though	Mar 12 22:56
MinceR	multiple workspaces is a must have	Mar 12 22:56
Balrog_	OS X has that now	Mar 12 22:57
Balrog_	up to 16	Mar 12 22:57
MinceR	so is always on top and sticky	Mar 12 22:57
Balrog_	MinceR: what on top?	Mar 12 22:57
MinceR	i’d like to have Desktop Wall and Zoom even though my current desktop doesn’t have them	Mar 12 22:57
MinceR	making a window stay on top of others even if it doesn’t have the focus	Mar 12 22:57
Balrog_	zoom == Ctrl + scroll	Mar 12 22:57
Balrog_	ahh that	Mar 12 22:57
Balrog_	there are some apps that do that.	Mar 12 22:58
_Hicham_	MinceR : what distro do u use?	Mar 12 22:58
MinceR	also, to mouse focus i’d add bringing the focused window to top if it stays focused for a second and the cursor is over it	Mar 12 22:58
MinceR	kubuntu	Mar 12 22:58
Balrog_	As I said, I can’t stand mousefocus	Mar 12 22:58
Balrog_	drives me insane	Mar 12 22:58
MinceR	i also use rolling up windows sometimes and minimizing more often	Mar 12 22:58
MinceR	and occasionally turning off window decorations (to save space)	Mar 12 22:59
MinceR	i have a lot of keybindings to operate on windows, icewm-style	Mar 12 22:59
Balrog_	the thing with mousefocus is that you go somewhere, then start typing … where is the text going?	Mar 12 22:59
Balrog_	what if it’s a password?	Mar 12 22:59
MinceR	i point it at a window and type	Mar 12 23:00
Balrog_	and if the mouse somehow gets moved?	Mar 12 23:00
MinceR	also, passwords bring us to another thing: focus stealing prevention	Mar 12 23:00
Balrog_	(I’ve had problems with that)	Mar 12 23:01
MinceR	it doesn’t get moved, i control it	Mar 12 23:01
Balrog_	Focus stealing prevention is a problem with terminals	Mar 12 23:01
MinceR	how so?	Mar 12 23:01
Balrog_	how will the system prevent focus stealing when a terminal wants you to enter a password	Mar 12 23:02
Balrog_	s/terminal/an app in terminal, like ssh	Mar 12 23:02
MinceR	my terminals don’t grab the keyboard aggressively, afaik	Mar 12 23:02
Balrog_	but if you think you’re in terminal and something else does…	Mar 12 23:02
Balrog_	you’re screwed	Mar 12 23:02
MinceR	i tend to know where the focus is	Mar 12 23:03
MinceR	especially considering that the terminal has a different cursor if it doesn’t have the focus	Mar 12 23:03
Balrog_	OK	Mar 12 23:03
MinceR	see, i’m not an apple user, i know what’s going on	Mar 12 23:03
MinceR	:>	Mar 12 23:03
schestowitz	trmanco: lies, damn lies, and MS benchmarks/TCO	Mar 12 23:03
Balrog_	I use Linux as well	Mar 12 23:03
Balrog_	never with mousefocus though	Mar 12 23:03
Balrog_	I used to use Windows back in the day	Mar 12 23:03
MinceR	i didn’t like mousefocus until beryl made me try	Mar 12 23:03
Balrog_	as I said, mousefocus drives me mad	Mar 12 23:03
MinceR	i prefer it now	Mar 12 23:04
trmanco	schestowitz, ahh, it’s already spread, awesome	Mar 12 23:04
Balrog_	trmanco: link?	Mar 12 23:04
MinceR	it means less clicking, basically	Mar 12 23:04
trmanco	Balrog_, http://groups.google.com/group/co…	Mar 12 23:04
schestowitz	MinceR: it means more	Mar 12 23:04
MinceR	also, i can just point at a window and use hotkeys with the same ease as clicking on their window	Mar 12 23:04
MinceR	schestowitz: it means less, actually	Mar 12 23:04
schestowitz	It means move the hand to the mouse just to fling it	Mar 12 23:04
MinceR	no clicking to focus a window to start typing	Mar 12 23:05
schestowitz	From one screen/app to another	Mar 12 23:05
schestowitz	If you typo	Mar 12 23:05
schestowitz	*type	Mar 12 23:05
MinceR	i can switch focus from the keyboard too	Mar 12 23:05
Balrog_	alt-tab	Mar 12 23:05
schestowitz	alt+key	Mar 12 23:05
schestowitz	orsuper	Mar 12 23:05
MinceR	indeed	Mar 12 23:05
Balrog_	on mac, you have cmd-tab between apps and cmd-~ within apps	Mar 12 23:05
Balrog_	much more organized, IMO	Mar 12 23:05
schestowitz	or alt+tab+shift	Mar 12 23:05
MinceR	i think that within app thing is rarely what i want	Mar 12 23:06
Balrog_	why can’t others do something like that, and rather treat each windows as a separate app…?	Mar 12 23:06
MinceR	i tend to organize windows by task, not by app	Mar 12 23:06
Balrog_	you can organize windows by task	Mar 12 23:06
MinceR	i tend to have GVIM windows spread all over my environment	Mar 12 23:06
schestowitz	MinceR: same here	Mar 12 23:06
schestowitz	Easy to remember this way	Mar 12 23:06
MinceR	also, konsole windows	Mar 12 23:06
schestowitz	translucent?	Mar 12 23:06
Balrog_	mine are translucent	Mar 12 23:07
MinceR	pseudo-transparent currently	Mar 12 23:07
MinceR	i’ll upgrade from gutsy once i can find the time to backup my laptop and do the upgrade	Mar 12 23:07
MinceR	then i’ll probably have kde4 and start using that	Mar 12 23:07
schestowitz	Conficker getting bigger and meaner but BitDefender’s free disinfection tool is here to help! < http://www.itwire.com/conte… >	Mar 12 23:09
schestowitz	Some people get apps that do stuff	Mar 12 23:09
schestowitz	Windows gets apps that undo stufff	Mar 12 23:09
MinceR		Mar 12 23:09
_Hicham_	MinceR : it is not necessary to backup	Mar 12 23:10
_Hicham_	I always do a dist upgrade	Mar 12 23:10
Balrog_	what?!?!?!	Mar 12 23:10
MinceR	i still don’t trust ubuntu to upgrade safely	Mar 12 23:10
_Hicham_	since 6.04	Mar 12 23:10
Balrog_	reboot with knoppix or your favorite diag disc	Mar 12 23:10
_Hicham_	till now 8.10	Mar 12 23:10
MinceR	2 upgrades were problematic. they didn’t break but i had to manually kick apt through the process after the updater failed.	Mar 12 23:11
Balrog_	then dd if=/dev/hda \| gzip > /path/to/backup.image	Mar 12 23:11
Balrog_	easy enough.	Mar 12 23:11
MinceR	i’m going to boot a livedvd and do that	Mar 12 23:11
MinceR	when i have the time	Mar 12 23:11
_Hicham_	MinceR : I can see why it failed	Mar 12 23:11
MinceR	(and make sure it’s unmounted or mounted readonly, of course)	Mar 12 23:11
MinceR	probably because i have lots of extra packages installed.	Mar 12 23:11
Balrog_	make sure you boot noswap too	Mar 12 23:11
MinceR	but it shouldn’t have	Mar 12 23:11
Balrog_	knoppix noswap	Mar 12 23:12
Balrog_	for knoppix	Mar 12 23:12
_Hicham_	basically the updater downloads packages, then installs them	Mar 12 23:12
MinceR	Balrog_: why? i don’t backup my swap partition	Mar 12 23:12
_Hicham_	it is not too risky	Mar 12 23:12
twitter	balzac, at this point, anyone who knows how to program has to live with their hands in their ears or have a moral problem to work for M$	Mar 12 23:12
Balrog_	then you should be ok	Mar 12 23:12
Balrog_	twitter: explain	Mar 12 23:12
balzac	?	Mar 12 23:12
_Hicham_	twitter : what do u mean?	Mar 12 23:12
_Hicham_	it is not bad to port apps to windows	Mar 12 23:12
MinceR	many people don’t even know what “moral” is	Mar 12 23:13
_Hicham_	i always do it	Mar 12 23:13
Balrog_	MinceR: what else do you know about NEXT? Did you ever use a NEXT computer?	Mar 12 23:13
Balrog_	or the OS?	Mar 12 23:13
MinceR	we live in a cult of the Almighty Money.	Mar 12 23:13
MinceR	Balrog_: i know that’s where darwin started and that Doom was developed on/for next before it was ported to dos	Mar 12 23:13
_Hicham_	Ubuntu 9.04 is said to be fast	Mar 12 23:13
MinceR	(so the ripoff osx is based on started somewhere in the next times)	Mar 12 23:14
_Hicham_	i don’t know if I should test it on my computer	Mar 12 23:14
_Hicham_	basically there is nothing to fear	Mar 12 23:14
Balrog_	I wouldn’t call OS X a ripoff .. why do you?	Mar 12 23:14
_Hicham_	but there was some serious hardware problems	Mar 12 23:14
_Hicham_	like the recent beta Ubuntu 8.10 that killed dead many ethernet cards	Mar 12 23:15
schestowitz	MinceR < we live in a cult of the Almighty Money. >	Mar 12 23:15
_Hicham_	that is a real problem	Mar 12 23:15
schestowitz	Not anymore	Mar 12 23:15
MinceR	Balrog_: because apple parades around about how secure and stable it is, when they didn’t do any of the work that led there	Mar 12 23:15
Balrog_	you mean totally bricked?	Mar 12 23:15
schestowitz	We’ve lived in debt culutre	Mar 12 23:15
Balrog_	oh, apple did a lot of work	Mar 12 23:15
MinceR	and they gave little to nothing back to the community	Mar 12 23:15
schestowitz	Not it’s depression	Mar 12 23:15
MinceR	and then we get oppression through the BSA and other means	Mar 12 23:15
Balrog_	the security fixes that took place between 10.2 and 10.4 were important	Mar 12 23:15
MinceR	apple is pushing sw patents	Mar 12 23:15
MinceR	wow, they ported fixes and patched what they’ve broken?	Mar 12 23:16
schestowitz	Treu	Mar 12 23:16
schestowitz	Did you see Apple’s latest mischieft?	Mar 12 23:16
schestowitz	Wait	Mar 12 23:16
MinceR	(they didn’t really hurry with the porting, though — see BIND)	Mar 12 23:16
schestowitz	Apple’s patent exclusion could roil Web standards	Mar 12 23:16
schestowitz	On March 5 Apple dropped a small bombshell on the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) standards body, excluding one of its patents from the W3C Royalty-Free License commitment of the W3C Patent Policy for Widgets 1.0. The patent in question covers automatic updates to a client computer in a networked operating environment.	Mar 12 23:16
schestowitz	http://news.cnet.com/8301…	Mar 12 23:16
MinceR	also, apple is doing a lot of patent FUD nowadays	Mar 12 23:16
schestowitz	These guys really turns FOSS into something ‘unsexy’: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/200…	Mar 12 23:16
schestowitz	MinceR: yes	Mar 12 23:16
MinceR	so i think they should screw themselves	Mar 12 23:17
schestowitz	They learned from Steves[sic]	Mar 12 23:17
Balrog_	we’ll see	Mar 12 23:17
MinceR	and the fanboys who believe the ‘we’re teh omg-FLOSS company’ lies from apple should do a reality check.	Mar 12 23:17
Balrog_	but they are working with Sun	Mar 12 23:17
schestowitz	MinceR: read that CNET Asay article	Mar 12 23:17
schestowitz	He sucks up to Apple	Mar 12 23:17
schestowitz	A	Mar 12 23:17
MinceR	schestowitz: i know	Mar 12 23:17
schestowitz	Characterising them as a FOSS player	Mar 12 23:17
schestowitz	Wishful thnking	Mar 12 23:17
MinceR	as i’ve said before, he’s a bitch of apple.	Mar 12 23:18
MinceR	:>	Mar 12 23:18
schestowitz	“hey, I use Apple, I like FOSS, leave! Apple! Alone!”	Mar 12 23:18
schestowitz	But, but… DRM…	Mar 12 23:18
schestowitz	Asay:LALALALALALALA! I can’t hear you	Mar 12 23:18
MinceR	schestowitz: i don’t think the depression changed anything about the Cult of the Almighty Money	Mar 12 23:18
Balrog_	I smell prior art	Mar 12 23:18
Balrog_	with this patent	Mar 12 23:18
schestowitz	MinceR: true	Mar 12 23:18
schestowitz	Not they are hopefuls	Mar 12 23:18
schestowitz	Like DisneyWorld	Mar 12 23:18
schestowitz	Now they are Cinderlla	Mar 12 23:19
schestowitz	In the early days	Mar 12 23:19
schestowitz	Cinderella	Mar 12 23:19
Balrog_	really prior art	Mar 12 23:19
MinceR	hm, that web standard issue reminds me of when apple sabotaged the <video> element in html5	Mar 12 23:19
MinceR	together with nokia	Mar 12 23:19
schestowitz	Yes	Mar 12 23:19
schestowitz	I thought it was that initially	Mar 12 23:19
schestowitz	‘Too’ free	Mar 12 23:19
Balrog_	meaning ogg	Mar 12 23:19
schestowitz	Not good	Mar 12 23:20
Balrog_	?	Mar 12 23:20
schestowitz	Not DRM.. bad.	Mar 12 23:20
schestowitz	Balrog_: yes	Mar 12 23:20
MinceR	yes, ogg theora as a recommended codec that all browsers should support	Mar 12 23:20
schestowitz	http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/…	Mar 12 23:20
MinceR	they couldn’t have that as it doesn’t have DRM	Mar 12 23:20
Balrog_	well, tests of ogg theora vs. h.264 show that h.264 quality is much better	Mar 12 23:20
schestowitz	Stephan Wenger, Nokia: “Compatibility with DRM. We understand that this could be a sore point in W3C, but from our viewpoint, any DRM-incompatible video related mechanism is a non-starter with the content industry (Hollywood).”	Mar 12 23:20
Balrog_	or rather, quality-to-size ration	Mar 12 23:20
Balrog_	ratio *	Mar 12 23:20
MinceR	(shows how much of Jobs claiming he doesn’t want DRM is true)	Mar 12 23:20
Balrog_	the only DRM that h.264 has is in the app store	Mar 12 23:21
MinceR	Balrog_: h.264 is patent-encumbered, isn’t it?	Mar 12 23:21
Balrog_	err, itunes storee	Mar 12 23:21
schestowitz	Apps store reminds me of candy store	Mar 12 23:21
Balrog_	store *	Mar 12 23:21
schestowitz	Apps wrapped up in bonbon boxes	Mar 12 23:21
MinceR	which makes it ineligible for a web standard	Mar 12 23:21
schestowitz	Stephan Wenger used to work for Microsoft	Mar 12 23:22
Balrog_	two of its patents were ruled unenforceble	Mar 12 23:22
schestowitz	He thinks that Web needs DRM	Mar 12 23:22
MinceR	(and no RAND bullshit, thank-you-very-much)	Mar 12 23:22
Balrog_	unenforceable	Mar 12 23:22
schestowitz	What would timbl say?	Mar 12 23:22
Balrog_	*	Mar 12 23:22
MinceR	Balrog_: that leaves how many?	Mar 12 23:23
trmanco	wtf -> http://pdb.finkproject.org…	Mar 12 23:25
trmanco	Description: Stupid content tracker (1.6.1-1)	Mar 12 23:25
MinceR	that’s the official description of Git	Mar 12 23:25
trmanco	This is a stupid (but extremely fast) directory content manager. It doesn’t do a whole lot, but what it _does_ do is track directory contents efficiently.	Mar 12 23:25
Balrog_	git == stupid person	Mar 12 23:25
Balrog_	not?	Mar 12 23:25
MinceR	yes	Mar 12 23:25
trmanco	no	Mar 12 23:25
schestowitz	MinceR: it’s called git	Mar 12 23:26
schestowitz	What would you expect?	Mar 12 23:26
trmanco	Linus says whoever use VS or SVN are stupid.	Mar 12 23:26
schestowitz	“lame”	Mar 12 23:26
schestowitz	acronym, I know	Mar 12 23:26
trmanco	uses* CVS*	Mar 12 23:26
Balrog_	NO!!!!!	Mar 12 23:26
MinceR	i see the main website use both “Git” and “git”	Mar 12 23:26
Balrog_	if you want to use CVS, use SVN instead	Mar 12 23:26
Balrog_	more modern implementation	Mar 12 23:26
MinceR	“I’m an egotistical bastard, and I name all my projects after myself. First Linux, now git.”	Mar 12 23:27
MinceR	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(s…	Mar 12 23:27
Balrog_	Linus says it has the same problems as CVS though	Mar 12 23:27
MinceR	Subversion is just a better reimplementation of the CVS model	Mar 12 23:27
schestowitz	MinceR: sounds like RMS-esque choice	Mar 12 23:27
trmanco	I use Git and Bazaar	Mar 12 23:27
schestowitz	geek humour	Mar 12 23:27
MinceR	i think it’s funny	Mar 12 23:27
schestowitz	trmanco: that’s bizarre	Mar 12 23:27
trmanco	maybe Mercurial in the future	Mar 12 23:27
MinceR	i use Git and tla	Mar 12 23:27
trmanco	schestowitz, bizarre?	Mar 12 23:28
MinceR	(though only git for personal projects)	Mar 12 23:28
MinceR	bizarre bazaar?	Mar 12 23:28
Balrog_	bzr	Mar 12 23:28
trmanco	never heard of TLA	Mar 12 23:28
Balrog_	what about Monotone?	Mar 12 23:28
trmanco	ahh	Mar 12 23:28
schestowitz	Playful	Mar 12 23:28
MinceR	TLA is another distributed vcs	Mar 12 23:28
schestowitz	Can’t recall what RMS calls it	Mar 12 23:28
schestowitz	Playful somehing	Mar 12 23:28
*trmanco got git push ‘ed		Mar 12 23:28
MinceR	it’s slow and it works with text patches mostly	Mar 12 23:28
trmanco	origin master	Mar 12 23:28
trmanco	all patches are text	Mar 12 23:29
MinceR	and after knowing the power of Git, it’s really a pain to use :>	Mar 12 23:29
schestowitz	“enjoying playful cleverness”	Mar 12 23:29
schestowitz	That’s it	Mar 12 23:29
Balrog_	I hear that monotone [mtn] is really slow	Mar 12 23:29
MinceR	trmanco: it does store the full file sometimes though, doesn’t it?	Mar 12 23:29
MinceR	there’s that “pristine” thing i don’t fully know	Mar 12 23:30
trmanco	MinceR, which one?	Mar 12 23:30
MinceR	TLA	Mar 12 23:30
trmanco	I dunno	Mar 12 23:30
trmanco	I also use git gui and gitk	Mar 12 23:30
MinceR	i use them too, also qgit	Mar 12 23:31
MinceR	(actually i prefer qgit to gitk because it’s prettier)	Mar 12 23:31
trmanco	I’m still to human to read diffs in black and green	Mar 12 23:31
MinceR		Mar 12 23:31
MinceR	kompare might help	Mar 12 23:31
trmanco	MinceR, yes, gitk has a strange UI… its made out of TCL/TK	Mar 12 23:31
MinceR	indeed	Mar 12 23:32
trmanco	looks like crap, but useful	Mar 12 23:32
MinceR		Mar 12 23:32
MinceR	and git gui is awesome	Mar 12 23:32
trmanco	yeah	Mar 12 23:32
balzac	lart	Mar 12 23:33
MinceR	no u	Mar 12 23:33
schestowitz	Groklaw RSS feed are finally working again.	Mar 12 23:34
Balrog_	ATSC digital TV has patents on it	Mar 12 23:34
schestowitz	Apple dissed: Linux, Microsoft and Sun to discuss the future of operating systems, but where’s Apple? < http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content… >	Mar 12 23:34
balzac	that’s kinda lame	Mar 12 23:34
balzac	it’s like the UN Security Council, if they don’t consider you a threat, you can’t come	Mar 12 23:35
Balrog_	heh	Mar 12 23:35
Balrog_	that’s not a good thing, because they’re ignoring a possible threat	Mar 12 23:35
Balrog_	but then again, apple has their own ideas	Mar 12 23:36
trmanco	time to go, cya guys	Mar 12 23:36
balzac	later	Mar 12 23:36
balzac	why would the Linux Foundation guy be meeting with Microsoft reps?	Mar 12 23:37
balzac	what is the point?	Mar 12 23:37
balzac	and how does Sun relate?	Mar 12 23:38
schestowitz	ping Smari	Mar 12 23:38
benJIman	Sun & OpenSolaris	Mar 12 23:40
MinceR	“where’s Apple?” << obviously, they’ll grab the BSDL-ed code once it’s ready and claim they’ve invented the whole thing	Mar 12 23:41
balzac	heheh	Mar 12 23:41
Balrog__	a lot of their code is from NEXT and a lot is original	Mar 12 23:42
Balrog__	yes, a lot is BSDL too	Mar 12 23:42
balzac	Jim Zemlin is there as a moderator	Mar 12 23:42
MinceR	and a lot of the code in NeXT isn’t theirs either :>	Mar 12 23:42
balzac	that’s funny	Mar 12 23:42
Balrog__	which code in NeXT?	Mar 12 23:42
Balrog__	the kernel and all? much is BSDL, but not all	Mar 12 23:42
Balrog__	definitely not the stuff that led to Cocoa	Mar 12 23:42
MinceR	mach and some random *bsd	Mar 12 23:43
Balrog__	that differentiates OS X from other UNIX	Mar 12 23:43
*Balrog__ is now known as Balrog		Mar 12 23:43
balzac	you know what this event is?	Mar 12 23:43
balzac	it’s a circle-jerk	Mar 12 23:43
MinceR	yeah, crap is what differentiates osx from real Unix :>	Mar 12 23:43
MinceR	oh, that explains why apple isn’t there — they do it in a closed system. :>	Mar 12 23:44
balzac	right, apple wanks in solitude	Mar 12 23:44
MinceR	who’s Jim Zemlin?	Mar 12 23:44
balzac	Linux Foundation guy	Mar 12 23:44
MinceR	not in solitude — rather, in the circle of their fanboys	Mar 12 23:44
Balrog	Cocoa is something OS X has that others don’t	Mar 12 23:45
balzac	the analogy is losing it’s meaning	Mar 12 23:45
MinceR	not that others really need it	Mar 12 23:45
balzac	All I’m saying is that OS summit is a wank-fest	Mar 12 23:45
balzac	There’s ego involved, I know that much	Mar 12 23:45
MinceR	what i’d ask is what is m$ doing there	Mar 12 23:46
balzac	Probably it’s for two humbled proprietary software vendors to acknowledge reality in a controlled environment which will protect their egos.	Mar 12 23:46
MinceR	other than wasting precious oxygen	Mar 12 23:46
balzac	not fully acknowledge reality, but make baby-steps in that direction	Mar 12 23:46
balzac	Sun was humbled by GNU some time ago, and now it still clings to OpenSolaris	Mar 12 23:47
MinceR	ic	Mar 12 23:47
balzac	that’s not bad, the license isn’t terrible	Mar 12 23:47
Balrog	OpenSolaris is CDDL anyway…	Mar 12 23:47
balzac	Now Microsoft is the new one in the support group	Mar 12 23:47
schestowitz	balzac: agreed, I hate that meeting too	Mar 12 23:47
balzac	CDDL – shoulda been GPLv3	Mar 12 23:47
schestowitz	They even invited the anti-Linux infiltrators	Mar 12 23:47
schestowitz	“infiltrator” not being my word	Mar 12 23:47
schestowitz	I heard people who spoke to the Sam Ramji shill use it	Mar 12 23:48
balzac	yep, so much pomp and ceremony has to be for the purpose of protecting the egos of people whos heads are up their asses.	Mar 12 23:48
schestowitz	Suing Linux while trying to steal FOSS devs with bribes	Mar 12 23:48
schestowitz	To Linux: pay us	Mar 12 23:48
schestowitz	To FOSS devs: here’s incentive, dump Linux	Mar 12 23:48
MinceR	CDDL is sun’s way of saying they’re frustrated by the success of GNU and Linux	Mar 12 23:48
MinceR	and of showing that they’re hostile	Mar 12 23:49
balzac	Well, they considered GPLv3	Mar 12 23:49
balzac	and Linus Torvalds said “we’ll upgrade to GPLv3 as well and we’ll get your code”	Mar 12 23:49
balzac	(paraphrasing)	Mar 12 23:49
balzac	and so they went CDDL instead	Mar 12 23:49
MinceR	a pity	Mar 12 23:49
balzac	because they couldn’t stand the idea of getting assimilated by GNU/Linux	Mar 12 23:49
MinceR	it would be a win in itself to convince Linus to switch to GPLv3	Mar 12 23:49
balzac	and then Linus Torvalds clings to his security blanket – not upgrading to GPLv3	Mar 12 23:50
balzac	That’s his line in the sand	Mar 12 23:50
Balrog	Linus should switch to GPLv3	Mar 12 23:50
balzac	because he’s still convinced that he’s the “Neo” of this matrix.	Mar 12 23:50
balzac	But no, RMS is NEO in this matrix.	Mar 12 23:50
Balrog	that would help prevent any more MS-Novell type deals	Mar 12 23:50
MinceR	gn	Mar 12 23:53
schestowitz	Balrog: +1	Mar 12 23:53
balzac	later MinceR	Mar 12 23:53
balzac	indeed	Mar 12 23:53
Balrog	RMS will be at my university later this month	Mar 12 23:53
Balrog	I’ll should get to speak to him in person	Mar 12 23:54
Balrog	s/I’ll/I	Mar 12 23:54
twitter	you could just email him	Mar 12 23:55
balzac	Why doesn’t Linus Torvalds upgrade to GPLv3?	Mar 12 23:55
twitter	$	Mar 12 23:55
balzac	Balrog: do both.	Mar 12 23:55
Balrog	I’ll see. I always like talking to people in person	Mar 12 23:55
Balrog	does RMS respond to all email?	Mar 12 23:55
twitter	yes	Mar 12 23:55
balzac	quite a bit of mine	Mar 12 23:55
balzac	I doubt Linus Torvalds would respond to an email	Mar 12 23:56
schestowitz	Balrog: there’s already too much about the migration: http://linux.slashdot.org/article… http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/03/12/fren…	Mar 12 23:56
schestowitz	No point in making more noise	Mar 12 23:56
schestowitz	It’s not news	Mar 12 23:56
twitter	RMS has made advocacy his mission.	Mar 12 23:56
schestowitz	It’s just the numbers from OSOR	Mar 12 23:56
schestowitz	That’s the news	Mar 12 23:56
schestowitz	Some numbers, maybe quotes	Mar 12 23:56
schestowitz	The news is from 2008	Mar 12 23:56
schestowitz	French police deal blow to Microsoft < http://afp.google.com/article/AL… >	Mar 12 23:57
schestowitz	AFP probably broke the news at the time	Mar 12 23:57
Balrog	I posted that here a while ago	Mar 12 23:57
schestowitz	IIRC, Pearly gates was meeting the Mayor of Paris at the time to shove a nickle up his *.	Mar 12 23:57
Balrog	when it appeared on slashdot	Mar 12 23:57
schestowitz	He prevented schools from moving to Linux too	Mar 12 23:57
Balrog	but yeah, that’s really going back	Mar 12 23:57
schestowitz	He ‘agreed’ with the mayor to do the dumping routine	Mar 12 23:58
schestowitz	Then he want to Dubai/UAE and did the same thing around the same time	Mar 12 23:58
schestowitz	I put it in BN to be documented	Mar 12 23:58
twitter	ah ha, Dina Bass comes through again. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p…	Mar 12 23:58
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/…	Mar 12 23:58
schestowitz	Bah!s	Mar 12 23:59
twitter	I’d read some stupid shill article pointing to bloomberg. I should have known the source was better.	Mar 12 23:59
schestowitz	twitter: oldish news	Mar 12 23:59
schestowitz	I posted this in some places earlier	Mar 12 23:59
schestowitz	It’s actually not good for Vista7	Mar 12 23:59