07.24.09

Gemini version available ♊︎

Mono Roundup: Suppression of Speech, Extension, and Deception

Posted in Free/Libre Software, FSF, Microsoft, Mono, Novell at 4:26 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Playing with clay

Summary: Bits of minor news about Mono

AS our later post will show, Microsoft delivered not 20,000 lines of code but 20,000 lines of GPL compliance. Despite the illusion or bubble of PR bursting, some pro-Microsoft blogs are using this forced compliance (and Mono) to describe Microsoft’s self-serving actions as a “love-fest over open source” for which Microsoft deserves special credit. This spin is also pushed by the business press. At the same time we are seeing personal attacks on those daring to criticise some things like Mono, disdain of Stallman, and trust in Microsoft. Trust needs to be earned (c/f TomTom lawsuit in 2009)

Glyn Moody is able to see the disagreements at play and he has published a post that tells apart “Purists” and “Pragmatists”. It’s an old story and nothing particularly out of the ordinary; tension has always existed at some level.

Now we have a similar situation regarding Mono. The purists are concerned that there may be issues to do with software patents in jurisdictions that recognise them. To them, it seems folly to create what may be tainted code because of the digital sword of Damocles hanging over them through such intellectual monopolies. For the pragmatists, by contrast, Mono is simply a good way of programming that can serve the useful purpose of allowing people to run .Net-based programs on free software. All in all, then, they believe it is to be welcomed as a way of increasing the use of open source.

There is a particular irony in this situation, because this time it is the GNOME project’s use of Mono that is proving unacceptable to the purists, whereas ten years ago, GNOME was the purist solution to the problems with KDE’s pragmatism. If nothing else, this shows how foolish it would be to judge projects on their past alignments rather than present actions.

Despite warnings from the FSF, Novell is replicating Microsoft and it shows no signs of abatement. Taking Banshee for example, it is being further extended into territories which beg for trouble [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]. Tomboy has many users, but unlike Banshee, Microsoft’s Community Promise covers it for the time being. One of the biggest issues happens to be Moonlight, which was covered in ZDNet UK a few days ago.

Silverlight is based on .NET — the open source implementation of .NET is Mono. Microsoft has assisted Mono development. The open source version of Silverlight is called Moonlight, which is based on Mono, and sponsored by Novell. Moonlight enables Silverlight content to run on Linux.

Microsoft never appeased the concerns raised by the SFLC regarding Moonlight.

What also ought to be added is that David Worthington seems to have been promoting “everything Microsoft” recently (ever since they bought him lunch, but he was in touch with Microsoft for longer than that). Anyway, one of the latest posts from him is once again promoting Mono by deception, even spin and borderline lies. Pascal from the OpenSUSE Board is annoyed by it. He wrote:

This piece of… “art” has to be one of the most factually wrong and ridiculous pseudo-technical articles ever. Because its utterly unqualified author has 3 or 4 desktop applications running on Mono on his desktop, he states that Mono has overtaken Java (and, unlike the title of that article, he actually writes that it’s not only on the desktop).

And even later, Worthington carries on promoting Mono. It must be good for Microsoft, but we already knew that and wrote about it yesterday.

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

15 Comments

  1. zatoichi said,

    July 24, 2009 at 5:13 am

    Gravatar

    Roy, I’ve just reported your site to littleart.ru for violating its terms of use on artwork. I’d heard that you’d been smacked around for using stock are without permission, and here you are doing precisely that.

    This photo comes from this page on littleart.ru; note that at the bottom of the page, there’s the line

    Copyright ©2008-2009, Littleart.ru. Использование материалов сайта возможно только при наличии прямой ссылки на Littleart.ru

    If you read Russian, you’d be aware that this says, “Copyright © 2008-2009, Littleart.ru. Use of the site’s materials is only possible when there are direct links to Littleart.ru.” I’m not seein’ no direct links, Roy.

    So, the Big Defender of Free Software for the Evil Corporation is a violator of copyright. A thief of the creativity of others . Nice.

    Or maybe you’re just exercising your “freedom” and seeing to it that your neighbor shares his things with you. Whether he wants to or not. Without your asking first.

    For shame, Roy. I’m going to be going through the rest of the artwork on the site, I expect I’ll find more examples, and I’ll report those, too, as I find them, both to their owners and here.

    Those stories were true, weren’t they? Once a thief, always a thief.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    The photo is from here:

    http://www.sxc.hu/photo/994612

    Usage
    Royalty free, see usage options”

    Your only purpose in this site in to silence and intimidate (see the subject of this post). If you carry on, your account will be banned for breaking the commenting policy.

    Dylan McCall Reply:

    Okay…

    “Standard restrictions apply and flaivoloka must be notified and credited when using the photo for any public work.”

    Maybe it’s lost somewhere, but I don’t see the latter end of that being upheld.

  2. zatoichi said,

    July 24, 2009 at 5:32 am

    Gravatar

    Don’t blame me, Roy, there had been stories, and the very first photo I check takes me to littlearts.ru; I not the one snagging free photos from dodgy web sites; I either get permission or get my stock from iStockphoto.com…

    That only talks about the royalty you have to pay when you’ve executed a license with the owner of the image. From the sxc.hu “Site Info” (my emphasis):

    “6. Are these images really free?

    Yes, they are free as long as you stick to the rules in the Image license Agreement. Also, in some cases you may need to notify the artists about using the images and sometimes you need to give credit to them. You can see these restrictions under the image previews, right next to the Download button.”

    Also, in section 7, “Legal Information”, they note

    “SXC cannot be held responsible for any copyright violations, and cannot guarantee the legality of the Images stored in its system. If you want to make sure, always contact the photographers. You use the site and the photos at your own risk! ”

    And, as I said, the image in question, as nearly as I can tell, belongs to littleart.ru and is only available under the specified terms. I’ll track down others as I have time, but I won’t bother telling you about it, since it seems to upset you.

    Speaking of “being banned”, I was wondering if you’d had a chance to either collect some links to where I was cursing so much that you had no recourse but to remove me from the site, as well as that list of “what is and what is not a ‘curse’”…? I mean, is “bas**rd” okay? I guess “as***le” is probably over the line, but what about just “a**”?

    Seen verofakto’s time line? Really nice job there, huh?

    zatoichi Reply:

    Oh, and verofakto did that on his or her own: I just offered one additional “incident”–the “tomboy replacement” thread in early 2008–and one clarification, to the work that had already been done. I can pass along any comments you have on this, if you’d like, Roy.

    nachokb Reply:

    And, as I said, the image in question, as nearly as I can tell, belongs to littleart.ru

    zatoichi, I don’t know why you are so sure about that, perhaps you have more information.

    Still, I can’t help but look at the dates, and it just so happens that sxc’s predates the Russian site’s image by more than a year. At least, that’s what it says.

    Anyway, it is ultimately irrelevant: it should be reported (to both of them, without prejudice) and then left aside (if, the real rights holder turns out to be the Russian guy, all that Roy would have to do is remove the image or ask permission).

    You seem to keep insisting that it is somehow Roy’s fault. That’s what makes you look like a zealot.

    Regards,

    nachokb

  3. zatoichi said,

    July 24, 2009 at 5:38 am

    Gravatar

    I’m not trying to silence you, Roy. I’m just trying to get you to stop misrepresenting things, and leading this incessant chorus of hatred. I’m afraid you’ll die young if you keep up this sort of thing, it’s not at all healthy for you.

    Of course, to the extent that a lot of stuff on the site is out-and-out misrepresentation, I guess there’d be a lot less stuff, but that’s not the same thing at all.

  4. Needs Sunlight said,

    July 24, 2009 at 6:27 am

    Gravatar

    More! This must be spot on if it gets the MSFT boosters so wound up and skipping right to the personal attacks. Fact is, if they have only the attacks that shows there is no basis for the claims that Mono / BOTNet are technically or legally suitable for any given task. Usually MSFT boosters do the attacks when there is some very bad showing in the quarterly figures, some competitors (read: the rest of industry) are getting good press, or

    Fact is the “protections” for Mono are not passed downstream. Only hobby developers are covered. End-users and commercial developers are at risk from racketeering. Building on Mono instead of the original Java or C++ can leave your customers in for a *nasty* surprise later — black hats and lawyers.

    eet Reply:

    Apparently you haven’t been following what’s been going on lately, otherwise you would know who zatoichi is. This here is about far more than your boring Mono-conspiracies; it is about what we want our community to be: A playground for self-indulgent paranoiacs who go around defaming others or a place for people who want to make constructive contributions to a shared vision.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    @EET: it seems you are one who has splinters from the troll-mirror in his eyes or that you seem to think it is opposite day. Anyway, keep up the yammering, but do it elsewhere.

    Mono, aside from performance and security hits, is about locking software into M$ outdated stack.

    Don’t use it in place of Java:
    http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono

    zatoichi Reply:

    The FSF has their opinion, and the UTB has theirs.

    Why does everyone need to subscribe to the one you say?

  5. Will said,

    July 24, 2009 at 8:24 am

    Gravatar

    Unless I missed something:

    “We hereby grant to You a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use the Image on the terms and conditions explained in this Agreement and on the Image preview page FREE OF CHARGE.

    You may use the Image

    * In digital format on websites, multimedia presentations, broadcast film and video, cell phones.”

    That is from the terms of use for that photo.

    zatoichi Reply:

    You did indeed miss something. The paragraph where they allow that they don’t check a single solitary thing that’s uploaded for copyright violations, and that it’s on the user to check and make sure that the rights are what the upload says they are.

    This photo is clearly posted at scx.hu illegitimately, as my link to its original location shows. The site that has the rights–littleart.ru–says, as I pointed out, that you can only use it if you link back to their site from it. So, unless Roy makes that photo a link to littleart.ru, he’s in violation of their copyright.

    All he needs to do is make it link appropriately. Is that so hard? It’s a nice photo, why do you and Roy want to deny its creators the credit they deserve?

    But I’ve posted all of this already, right here. Don’t you read before you comment?

    Dylan McCall Reply:

    The truth is, they just want to pretend you don’t exist because you don’t subscribe to their “freedom or die” mentality. If Roy had his way, you would already be an unperson.

    zatoichi Reply:

    I was an unperson, a few times, at least until Roy ran short of reasons, and the energy, to ban me again.

    I though I was dead once. Turned out, I was just in Nebraska.

    —Gene Hackman as “‘Little’ Bill Daggett” in Unforgiven

DecorWhat Else is New


  1. [Meme] IBM Has Paid ZDNet to Troll the Community

    Over the past few weeks ZDNet has constantly published courses with the word "master" in their headlines (we caught several examples; a few are shown above); years ago this was common, also in relation to IBM itself; clearly IBM thinks that the word is racially sensitive and offensive only when it's not IBM using the word and nowadays IBM pays ZDNet — sometimes proxying through the Linux Foundation — to relay this self-contradictory message whose objective is to shame programmers, Free software communities etc. (through guilt they can leverage more power and resort to projection tactics, sometimes outright slander which distracts)



  2. [Meme] ILO Designed to Fail: EPO Presidents Cannot be Held Accountable If ILOAT Takes Almost a Decade to Issue a Simple Ruling

    The recent ILOAT ruling (a trivial no-brainer) inadvertently reminds one of the severe weaknesses of ILOAT; what good is a system of accountability that issues rulings on decisions that are barely relevant anymore (or too late to correct)?



  3. Links 22/10/2021: Trump's AGPL Violations and Chrome 95 Released

    Links for the day



  4. [Meme] How Corporate Monopolies Demonise Critics of Their Technically and Legally Problematic 'Products'

    When the technical substance of some criticism stands (defensible based upon evidence), and is increasingly difficult to refute based on facts, make up some fictional issue — a straw man argument — and then respond to that phony issue based on no facts at all



  5. Links 22/10/2021: Global Encryption Day

    Links for the day



  6. [Meme] Speaking the Same Language

    Language inside the EPO is misleading. Francophones Benoît Battistelli and António Campinos casually misuse the word “social”.



  7. António Campinos Thinks Salary Reductions Months Before He Leaves is “Exceptional Social Gesture”

    Just as Benoît Battistelli had a profound misunderstanding of the concept of “social democracy” his mate seems to completely misunderstand what a “social gesture” is (should have asked his father)



  8. IRC Proceedings: Thursday, October 21, 2021

    IRC logs for Thursday, October 21, 2021



  9. Links 21/10/2021: MX Linux 21 and Git Contributors’ Summit in a Nutshell

    Links for the day



  10. [Meme] [Teaser] Miguel de Icaza on CEO of Microsoft GitHub

    Our ongoing series, which is very long, will shed much-needed light on GitHub and its goals (the dark side is a lot darker than people care to realise)



  11. Gemini Protocol and Gemini Space Are Not a Niche; for Techrights, Gemini Means Half a Million Page Requests a Month

    Techrights on gemini:// has become very big and we’ll soon regenerate all the pages (about 37,500 of them) to improve clarity, consistency, and general integrity



  12. 'Satellite States' of EPO Autocrats

    Today we look more closely at how Baltic states were rendered 'voting fodder' by large European states, looking to rubber-stamp new and oppressive measures which disempower the masses



  13. [Meme] Don't Mention 'Brexit' to Team UPC

    It seems perfectly clear that UPC cannot start, contrary to what the EPO‘s António Campinos told the Council last week (lying, as usual) and what the EPO insinuates in Twitter; in fact, a legal challenge to this should be almost trivial



  14. The EPO’s Overseer/Overseen Collusion — Part IXX: The Baltic States

    How unlawful EPO rules were unsurprisingly supported by Benoît Battistelli‘s friends in Baltic states; António Campinos maintained those same unlawful rules and Baltic connections, in effect liaising with offices known for their corruption (convicted officials, too; they did not have diplomatic immunity, unlike Battistelli and Campinos)



  15. Links 21/10/2021: GIMP 2.99.8 Released, Hardware Shortages, Mozilla Crisis

    Links for the day



  16. How Oppressive Governments and Web Monopolists Might Try to Discourage Adoption of Internet Protocols Like Gemini

    Popular movements and even some courageous publications have long been subverted by demonisation tactics, splits along unrelated grounds (such as controversial politics) and — failing that — technical sabotage and censorship; one must familiarise oneself with commonly-recurring themes of social control by altercation



  17. [Meme] Strike Triangulations, Reception Issues

    Financial strangulations for Benoît Battistelli‘s unlawful “Strike Regulations”? The EPO will come to regret 2013…



  18. [Meme] Is Saying “No!” to Unlawful Proposals Considered “Impolite”?

    A ‘toxic mix’ of enablers and cowards (who won’t vote negatively on EPO proposals which they know to be unlawful) can serve to show that the EPO isn’t a “social democracy” as Benoît Battistelli liked to call it; it’s just a dictatorship, currently run by the son of a person who actually fought dictatorship



  19. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, October 20, 2021

    IRC logs for Wednesday, October 20, 2021



  20. [Meme] EPO Legal Sophistry and Double Dipping

    An imaginary EPO intercept of Administrative Council discussions in June 2013...



  21. Links 21/10/2021: PostgreSQL JDBC 42.3.0 and Maui Report

    Links for the day



  22. [Meme] [Teaser] “Judge a Person Both by His Friends and Enemies”

    Fervent supporters of Team Battistelli or Team Campinos (a dark EPO era) are showing their allegiances; WIPO and EPO have abused staff similarly over the past decade or so



  23. 'Cluster-Voting' in the European Patent Office/Organisation (When a Country With 1.9 Million Citizens Has the Same Voting Power as a Country With 83.1 Million Citizens)

    Today we examine who has been running the Finnish patent office and has moreover voted in the EPO during the ballot on unlawful "Strike Regulations"; they voted in favour of manifestly illegal rules and for 8.5 years after that (including last Wednesday) they continued to back a shady regime which undermines the EPO's mission statement



  24. The EPO’s Overseer/Overseen Collusion — Part XVIII: Helsinki's Accord

    The Finnish outpost has long been strategic to the EPO because it can help control the vote of four or more nations; evidence suggests this has not changed



  25. [Meme] Living as a Human Resource, Working for Despots

    The EPO has become a truly awful place/employer to work for; salary is 2,000 euros for some (despite workplace stress, sometimes relocation to a foreign country)



  26. Links 20/10/2021: New Redcore Linux and Hospital Adoption of GNU Health

    Links for the day



  27. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, October 19, 2021

    IRC logs for Tuesday, October 19, 2021



  28. Links 19/10/2021: Karanbir Singh Leaves CentOS Board, GPL Violations at Vizio

    Links for the day



  29. [Meme] Giving the Knee

    The 'knee' champion Kratochvìl and 'kneel' champion Erlingsdóttir are simply crushing the law; they’re ignoring the trouble of EPO staff and abuses of the Office, facilitated by the Council itself (i.e. facilitated by themselves)



  30. Josef Kratochvìl Rewarded Again for Covering Up EPO Corruption and the EPO Bribes the Press for Lies Whilst Also Lying About Its Colossal Privacy Violations

    Corrupt officials and officials who actively enable the crimes still control the Office and also the body which was supposed to oversee it; it's pretty evident and clear judging by this week's press statements at the EPO's official Web site


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts