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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 1st, 2008

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anivarschestowitz:  I feel some database connectivity issues are there for boycott novellAug 01 05:01
anivarsome error messages are visible on websiteAug 01 05:02
schestowitzYikrd.Aug 01 05:17
schestowitz*Yikes. Yes, there have been some issues lately.Aug 01 05:17
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schestowitz"Memphis Police Director Larry Godwin and the city of Memphis have filed a lawsuit to learn who operates a blog harshly critical of Godwin and his department.The lawsuit asks AOL to produce all information related to the identity of an e-mail address linked to MPD Enforcer 2.0, a blog popular with police officers that has been extremely critical of police leadership at 201 Poplar."Aug 01 08:06
schestowitzhttp://www.commercialappeal.com/news/200... And some people still think that blogging anonymously is possible. Good bye, free speech.Aug 01 08:06
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kentmamornin' allAug 01 09:13
schestowitzHey, kentma.Aug 01 09:15
schestowitzThe site make Linux Today some hours ago.Aug 01 09:15
kentmahey - well done!Aug 01 09:16
kentmayour use of links with mini-quotes has created a new style, well done that man!Aug 01 09:17
schestowitzThanks. The links are quick to do because I cross-cite. I just need to remember keywords.Aug 01 09:18
kentmaThe debate on your article is fascinating - it reeks of munchkinsAug 01 09:23
kentmaIn fact, the writing style is somewhat familiar - is this one of the cola gang?Aug 01 09:25
schestowitzIt's very different from 'old-style' press where the resources (bibliographic is secret/.crypitc/non-existent).  BTW, I decided not to write for Datamati0n until those Microsoft ads are out.Aug 01 09:25
schestowitzkentma: which one? A comment, you mean?Aug 01 09:26
kentmaIt could be a long wait, but personally, I'm a very principled person, and I always admire others who are.Aug 01 09:26
kentmaThe TJ Brumfield character.  It reads a lot like Eric/TimmyAug 01 09:26
schestowitz*lot of typos up there: " resources (bibliography) is secret/cryptic/non-existent."Aug 01 09:27
kentmaI understood - no worries.Aug 01 09:27
schestowitzIs brumfield a real/common name? Sounds like Broom stick.Aug 01 09:28
kentmaI think it's an anglicised spelling of brumfeld.Aug 01 09:30
kentmabrummen is to growl, so is brumfeld a growl-field? :-)Aug 01 09:31
kentmaor it could be brummeln, to grumble - actually, that makes more sense.  grumble-field.Aug 01 09:32
kentmaIt would be a good troll name.Aug 01 09:32
schestowitzI don't think it's a troll though. It's an obnoxious critic, but he seems to be more of a Novell/Microsoft apologist in this case.Aug 01 09:33
schestowitzI never buy the worst type of troll that goes like: "Don't get me wrong, I use Linux, but" or "I hate Microsoft as much of the next guy. That said..."Aug 01 09:33
kentmaThe "apologist" role is something I find hard to understand.  Still, we can't all have clear specs on :-)Aug 01 09:35
schestowitzIt's the latter which is more problematic. They gain more credibility that way. That fools innocent observers. Groklaw caught some people from Microsoft lobbying arms/partners masking as Linux users.Aug 01 09:36
kentmaI'm sure that they do that all the time.  All the better to appear to be a "balanced" commentator.  "I've used Linux for several years, and have been a particular fan of Debian and Firefox for a long time.  I'm really happy with the latest Ubuntu, but I do have several problems with the install, as several of my key packages didn't work after I installed from the liveCD..."Aug 01 09:39
kentmaIt was exceedingly complex to fix these problems, and I very much doubt that a user of normal competence in such things would be able to fix them, even with web support.  I'd advise people to steer clear of this release at least until there are reports that these issues have been fixed.Aug 01 09:40
kentmaI'll let you all know when I've got to the bottom of everything, and I'm preparing a list of temporary fixes which I'll post later on.Aug 01 09:41
schestowitzI suppose you know about the attack on KDE4. Some trolls are blamed too.Aug 01 09:41
schestowitzKingman (yesterday): "The rest of the changes include library enhancements, improved applications and frameworks -- all the little things. It sounds promising!" http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/N...Aug 01 09:42
schestowitzThe "TAB" Munchkin is back. HPT intercepted him a couple of years ago, but it's back.Aug 01 09:42
kentmaHopefully, it'll be a little more careful about the kind of material posted.Aug 01 09:43
schestowitzPogue: "Then in 2002, Microsoft’s Web site featured a testimonial called “Confessions of a Mac to PC Convert,” a first-person account by an attractive brunette “freelance writer” about how she had fallen in love with Windows XP."Aug 01 09:44
schestowitz"Unfortunately, a Slashdot member discovered that the identical photo was available for rent from the stock-photo libraries of GettyImages.com. Sure enough: Microsoft had hired a PR firm to write the testimonial. The “switcher” did not actually exist. "Aug 01 09:44
kentmaah, yes, I recall that one.Aug 01 09:44
schestowitzWhat bothers me is that Microsoft passes liability by hiring those scummy lie^H^Hketing people.Aug 01 09:45
kentmawell, it's about distance, isn't it?Aug 01 09:45
schestowitzEdelman was banned by PC Mag (well, boycotted) after that laptops incident where they poisoned blogs. They put money on the table to make those blogs another Edelman-like scum. Assimilation and passing of revenue (from Microsoft, originally)Aug 01 09:46
schestowitzThat's why I believe that pro-Microsoft Munchkins are either compensated partners (remember Sweden) or ones that are employed only indirectly. But ti's like an onion. Peel off the layers... it's hard to see it with tears in your eyes.Aug 01 09:47
kentma part of the problem here is that having a strong supply-chain is, in general, a good thing in business.  The problem in the MS case is that it's used to hold up a monopoly, rather than to ensure a vibrant and competitive market.Aug 01 09:48
schestowitzI\m going to post something later about Microsoft in parliament.Aug 01 09:49
schestowitzI actually had a long chat about it in the gym yesterday. I was given the watch/clock analogy. You only see the few dials, but not all the cogwheels behind it.Aug 01 09:49
schestowitzCharlie Demerjian is hysterically attacking Nvidia these days. It's like they killed his cat or something... http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/new...Aug 01 09:53
kentmaI had a series of nVidia cards fail on me after a couple of years.Aug 01 10:10
schestowitzThat's pretty bad. I have an ATI card at work (been fine for 5 years and still going), but I have one of the most problematic ones at home (G86). I keep fearing it'll just go titsup one day, but I have 2 backup workstations all set up for a quick shuffle.Aug 01 10:14
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schestowitzThere is some buzz about this at the  moment: http://www.sdtimes.com/link/32646 I reckon Microsoft calls it "research" so that people carry on buying Windows and there's a cushion, fallback, safety net.Aug 01 14:13
kentmayou know, what's truly bizarre about that article is that it doesn't mention linux, anywhere, not even once.Aug 01 14:26
kentmaOSX is mentioned, but not linux.Aug 01 14:27
kentmathey are also talking about using some of Windows in Midori anyway, ie., it wouldn't really be a new system.Aug 01 14:28
kentmaPersonally, I doubt anyone would be interested.Aug 01 14:28
schestowitzFew articles mention GNU/Linux. You know the reasons, which are probably not worth repeating. But this whole thing is just further proof that Windows is a mess. Too monolithic. See this: http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs...Aug 01 14:31
schestowitzkentma: I could use your help with http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfee... . I have picked up one possible interpretation, but I probably miss some aspects of this because I hardly know the companies.Aug 01 14:33
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kentmaschestowitz: hiAug 01 17:28
schestowitzHi there, did you get the last message about BGI? I didn't even know how much his wealth is used to stop mergers and such...Aug 01 17:29
kentmaThis is fairly normal behaviour from fund managers, to be honest.Aug 01 17:30
kentmaIt would appear that there's some consolidation due in that market, and I would imagine that BGI have a greater investment in one or other company, and don't want to see their value diluted.Aug 01 17:30
kentmaThe regulatory issues are probably correct.Aug 01 17:31
schestowitzSun posted some very bad results. Expect the anti-Linux propagandists to try to pose this as a loss for Linux.Aug 01 17:31
Tallkencompletely OT, but am I the only one who thought Plan9 was released under GPL2?Aug 01 17:32
kentmaIn fact, it's the death of proprietary software which is the underlying cause.  The way to prove this is to examine how much of Sun's income from proprietary code has changed compared to how much from ossAug 01 17:32
schestowitzRe: BGI -- the thing that fascinated is the amount of money on the table (e.g. in media companies) and how BillG can use that and evidently does this all the time.Aug 01 17:33
schestowitzWhat is Plan9?Aug 01 17:33
Tallkenschestowitz, OS in which everything is done through filesAug 01 17:33
Tallkenschestowitz, much like /dev overhauledAug 01 17:33
Tallkenschestowitz, /net for TCP/IP stackAug 01 17:33
schestowitzWas it dual at the end?Aug 01 17:33
Tallkenschestowitz, basically no API, all done through file manipulationAug 01 17:34
schestowitzLots of projects these days 'fake' GPL by just putting a portion under it, but leaving all the rest in a pricey basket.Aug 01 17:34
Tallkendeath is not proprietary software, the death is of shitty proprietary software. There are people who can swear for Apple OSX server proprietary GUI interfaces... in the end it's proprietary, the question is whether proprietary software companies are doing their job or just making money which they don't deserveAug 01 17:35
Tallken*death is not OF proprietary (...)Aug 01 17:35
kentmaschestowitz: BGI are merely an investment arm -  I doubt BGates has any day to day dealings with them.Aug 01 17:35
schestowitzDoes the BG stand for Bill Gates (Investment maybe)? I didn't check. If someone manages his wealth, then...Aug 01 17:36
schestowitzTallken: Apple gets a lot of good PR despite the fact that it's a user.Aug 01 17:36
kentmatalken:  better proprietary software will last longer, but in the end, the GPL will emerge triumphant.  The economics forced by the GPL ensure that this will be so, by specifically solving the "prisoner's dillemma" problem.Aug 01 17:36
kentmaBGI is barclays global investments, I think.Aug 01 17:37
schestowitzkentma: you're assuming they can't force 'gravitisation' with 'regularisation terms' like softare patents, DMCA, etc.Aug 01 17:37
kentmaThey're a fund manager/investment office for independent, well off people.Aug 01 17:38
schestowitzOops.Aug 01 17:38
schestowitzI've just actually read the article rather than glance at it.Aug 01 17:38
kentmaschestowitz: these effects are 2nd order, though - they'll perhaps slow the rate of ascent of foss, but they will not change its slope to -ve.Aug 01 17:39
schestowitzWell, SCO, then Novell... now that Ramji mess. Check out this comment: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10535-0.ht...Aug 01 17:39
kentmaThe linkages are Cascade Investment LLC and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation Trust - they have holdings in Waste Management.  BGI seems to be fronting the opposition to the deal.Aug 01 17:40
schestowitzI found it funny because Dana quoted me as saying that Ramji is "politely stealing from GNU/Linux." Maybe he'll run away sooner or later, just like Taylor and Hilf. Worst job at Microsoft (punch bag).Aug 01 17:40
*kentma looksAug 01 17:40
kentmahehe - that's quite funny.  He won't last long, I think..!Aug 01 17:43
schestowitz:-)Aug 01 17:43
schestowitzI used to think Dana  was against us, but he links to BN.com every month or so. There's growing acceptance of our 'thesis'.Aug 01 17:44
kentmamade the mainstream!Aug 01 17:44
kentmaanyway, I need to collect my agricultural vehicle - see you soon!Aug 01 17:44
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Tallkenah, Plan9's license is OSI approved and passes Debian Free Software GuidelinesAug 01 18:06
schestowitzAre you using it?Aug 01 18:08
Tallkenlol no, it's most used nowadays as a research platform and as a "it is possible to do" software approachAug 01 18:09
Tallkenthough if it was GPL I'd think twiceAug 01 18:09
Tallkenlinux kernel has support for Plan9-something-filesystemAug 01 18:09
Tallkenwould like to research and test, if I had the time, the conceptsAug 01 18:10
Tallkenthough I should look better into the license to know what it meansAug 01 18:10
Tallkenbut not for nowAug 01 18:10
schestowitzI wonder about Singularity as a "research" platform. My guess is that Microsoft is confused because of the "cannibalisation dilemma"Aug 01 18:12
SeveredCrossYou think they're using singularity as a staging point to a .NET Windows sometime in the future?Aug 01 18:24
schestowitzWindows Presentation FoundationAug 01 18:26
schestowitzBallmer had a leaked memo showing his desired focus on it. And well, Novell has de Icaza shouting about it.Aug 01 18:27
Tallkengotta go. Don't know what Singularity is, will read about it laterAug 01 18:34
Tallkencya later :(Aug 01 18:34
Tallken:)Aug 01 18:34
TallkenupsAug 01 18:34
schestowitzWill do. There's already Prism, Flex, Gear, etc. Microsoft comes from behind aggressively, just as it did with browsers, hypervisors, RIA (XAML)...Aug 01 18:34
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schestowitzInteresting times.Aug 01 18:34
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meebeyschestowitz: Mono is not planning to implement WPF at allAug 01 21:58
schestowitzYes, I know. Miguel blogged about it.Aug 01 21:59
schestowitzIt's something to just watch out for anyway. Apple too should be concerned or at least cautious.Aug 01 21:59
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 1 23:03:37 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 01 23:03
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged)Aug 01 23:03
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