Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 1st, 2008

Enter the IRC channel now

*blastfan (i=62e9a5d7@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 03:09
*blastfan has quit (Client Quit)Aug 01 03:11
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")Aug 01 03:38
*dsmith_ ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 04:22
*dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Aug 01 04:24
*crashsystems ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 04:46
*crashsystems ( has left #boycottnovellAug 01 04:51
*anivar (n=anivar@ has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 04:59
anivarschestowitz:  I feel some database connectivity issues are there for boycott novellAug 01 05:01
anivarsome error messages are visible on websiteAug 01 05:02
schestowitzYikrd.Aug 01 05:17
schestowitz*Yikes. Yes, there have been some issues lately.Aug 01 05:17
*anivar has quit ("Ex-Chat")Aug 01 06:00
*anivar (n=anivar@ has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 06:47
*anivar has quit ("Ex-Chat")Aug 01 07:52
schestowitz"Memphis Police Director Larry Godwin and the city of Memphis have filed a lawsuit to learn who operates a blog harshly critical of Godwin and his department.The lawsuit asks AOL to produce all information related to the identity of an e-mail address linked to MPD Enforcer 2.0, a blog popular with police officers that has been extremely critical of police leadership at 201 Poplar."Aug 01 08:06
schestowitz And some people still think that blogging anonymously is possible. Good bye, free speech.Aug 01 08:06
*kentma ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 08:43
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 09:11
kentmamornin' allAug 01 09:13
schestowitzHey, kentma.Aug 01 09:15
schestowitzThe site make Linux Today some hours ago.Aug 01 09:15
kentmahey - well done!Aug 01 09:16
kentmayour use of links with mini-quotes has created a new style, well done that man!Aug 01 09:17
schestowitzThanks. The links are quick to do because I cross-cite. I just need to remember keywords.Aug 01 09:18
kentmaThe debate on your article is fascinating - it reeks of munchkinsAug 01 09:23
kentmaIn fact, the writing style is somewhat familiar - is this one of the cola gang?Aug 01 09:25
schestowitzIt's very different from 'old-style' press where the resources (bibliographic is secret/.crypitc/non-existent).  BTW, I decided not to write for Datamati0n until those Microsoft ads are out.Aug 01 09:25
schestowitzkentma: which one? A comment, you mean?Aug 01 09:26
kentmaIt could be a long wait, but personally, I'm a very principled person, and I always admire others who are.Aug 01 09:26
kentmaThe TJ Brumfield character.  It reads a lot like Eric/TimmyAug 01 09:26
schestowitz*lot of typos up there: " resources (bibliography) is secret/cryptic/non-existent."Aug 01 09:27
kentmaI understood - no worries.Aug 01 09:27
schestowitzIs brumfield a real/common name? Sounds like Broom stick.Aug 01 09:28
kentmaI think it's an anglicised spelling of brumfeld.Aug 01 09:30
kentmabrummen is to growl, so is brumfeld a growl-field? :-)Aug 01 09:31
kentmaor it could be brummeln, to grumble - actually, that makes more sense.  grumble-field.Aug 01 09:32
kentmaIt would be a good troll name.Aug 01 09:32
schestowitzI don't think it's a troll though. It's an obnoxious critic, but he seems to be more of a Novell/Microsoft apologist in this case.Aug 01 09:33
schestowitzI never buy the worst type of troll that goes like: "Don't get me wrong, I use Linux, but" or "I hate Microsoft as much of the next guy. That said..."Aug 01 09:33
kentmaThe "apologist" role is something I find hard to understand.  Still, we can't all have clear specs on :-)Aug 01 09:35
schestowitzIt's the latter which is more problematic. They gain more credibility that way. That fools innocent observers. Groklaw caught some people from Microsoft lobbying arms/partners masking as Linux users.Aug 01 09:36
kentmaI'm sure that they do that all the time.  All the better to appear to be a "balanced" commentator.  "I've used Linux for several years, and have been a particular fan of Debian and Firefox for a long time.  I'm really happy with the latest Ubuntu, but I do have several problems with the install, as several of my key packages didn't work after I installed from the liveCD..."Aug 01 09:39
kentmaIt was exceedingly complex to fix these problems, and I very much doubt that a user of normal competence in such things would be able to fix them, even with web support.  I'd advise people to steer clear of this release at least until there are reports that these issues have been fixed.Aug 01 09:40
kentmaI'll let you all know when I've got to the bottom of everything, and I'm preparing a list of temporary fixes which I'll post later on.Aug 01 09:41
schestowitzI suppose you know about the attack on KDE4. Some trolls are blamed too.Aug 01 09:41
schestowitzKingman (yesterday): "The rest of the changes include library enhancements, improved applications and frameworks -- all the little things. It sounds promising!" 01 09:42
schestowitzThe "TAB" Munchkin is back. HPT intercepted him a couple of years ago, but it's back.Aug 01 09:42
kentmaHopefully, it'll be a little more careful about the kind of material posted.Aug 01 09:43
schestowitzPogue: "Then in 2002, Microsoft’s Web site featured a testimonial called “Confessions of a Mac to PC Convert,” a first-person account by an attractive brunette “freelance writer” about how she had fallen in love with Windows XP."Aug 01 09:44
schestowitz"Unfortunately, a Slashdot member discovered that the identical photo was available for rent from the stock-photo libraries of Sure enough: Microsoft had hired a PR firm to write the testimonial. The “switcher” did not actually exist. "Aug 01 09:44
kentmaah, yes, I recall that one.Aug 01 09:44
schestowitzWhat bothers me is that Microsoft passes liability by hiring those scummy lie^H^Hketing people.Aug 01 09:45
kentmawell, it's about distance, isn't it?Aug 01 09:45
schestowitzEdelman was banned by PC Mag (well, boycotted) after that laptops incident where they poisoned blogs. They put money on the table to make those blogs another Edelman-like scum. Assimilation and passing of revenue (from Microsoft, originally)Aug 01 09:46
schestowitzThat's why I believe that pro-Microsoft Munchkins are either compensated partners (remember Sweden) or ones that are employed only indirectly. But ti's like an onion. Peel off the layers... it's hard to see it with tears in your eyes.Aug 01 09:47
kentma part of the problem here is that having a strong supply-chain is, in general, a good thing in business.  The problem in the MS case is that it's used to hold up a monopoly, rather than to ensure a vibrant and competitive market.Aug 01 09:48
schestowitzI\m going to post something later about Microsoft in parliament.Aug 01 09:49
schestowitzI actually had a long chat about it in the gym yesterday. I was given the watch/clock analogy. You only see the few dials, but not all the cogwheels behind it.Aug 01 09:49
schestowitzCharlie Demerjian is hysterically attacking Nvidia these days. It's like they killed his cat or something... 01 09:53
kentmaI had a series of nVidia cards fail on me after a couple of years.Aug 01 10:10
schestowitzThat's pretty bad. I have an ATI card at work (been fine for 5 years and still going), but I have one of the most problematic ones at home (G86). I keep fearing it'll just go titsup one day, but I have 2 backup workstations all set up for a quick shuffle.Aug 01 10:14
*anivar (n=anivar@ has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 10:35
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Aug 01 10:48
*anivar has quit ("Ex-Chat")Aug 01 12:45
*kentma has quit (Remote closed the connection)Aug 01 13:07
*kentma ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 13:09
*meebey has quit (Remote closed the connection)Aug 01 13:17
*meebey ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 13:17
schestowitzThere is some buzz about this at the  moment: I reckon Microsoft calls it "research" so that people carry on buying Windows and there's a cushion, fallback, safety net.Aug 01 14:13
kentmayou know, what's truly bizarre about that article is that it doesn't mention linux, anywhere, not even once.Aug 01 14:26
kentmaOSX is mentioned, but not linux.Aug 01 14:27
kentmathey are also talking about using some of Windows in Midori anyway, ie., it wouldn't really be a new system.Aug 01 14:28
kentmaPersonally, I doubt anyone would be interested.Aug 01 14:28
schestowitzFew articles mention GNU/Linux. You know the reasons, which are probably not worth repeating. But this whole thing is just further proof that Windows is a mess. Too monolithic. See this: 01 14:31
schestowitzkentma: I could use your help with . I have picked up one possible interpretation, but I probably miss some aspects of this because I hardly know the companies.Aug 01 14:33
*aeshna23 (i=44a2b7fd@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 15:25
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")Aug 01 15:55
*aeshna23 has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Aug 01 16:14
*Tallken ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 16:52
*Egyptian[Home] (n=Egyptian@ has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 17:05
*Egyptian[Home] (n=Egyptian@ has left #boycottnovellAug 01 17:06
kentmaschestowitz: hiAug 01 17:28
schestowitzHi there, did you get the last message about BGI? I didn't even know how much his wealth is used to stop mergers and such...Aug 01 17:29
kentmaThis is fairly normal behaviour from fund managers, to be honest.Aug 01 17:30
kentmaIt would appear that there's some consolidation due in that market, and I would imagine that BGI have a greater investment in one or other company, and don't want to see their value diluted.Aug 01 17:30
kentmaThe regulatory issues are probably correct.Aug 01 17:31
schestowitzSun posted some very bad results. Expect the anti-Linux propagandists to try to pose this as a loss for Linux.Aug 01 17:31
Tallkencompletely OT, but am I the only one who thought Plan9 was released under GPL2?Aug 01 17:32
kentmaIn fact, it's the death of proprietary software which is the underlying cause.  The way to prove this is to examine how much of Sun's income from proprietary code has changed compared to how much from ossAug 01 17:32
schestowitzRe: BGI -- the thing that fascinated is the amount of money on the table (e.g. in media companies) and how BillG can use that and evidently does this all the time.Aug 01 17:33
schestowitzWhat is Plan9?Aug 01 17:33
Tallkenschestowitz, OS in which everything is done through filesAug 01 17:33
Tallkenschestowitz, much like /dev overhauledAug 01 17:33
Tallkenschestowitz, /net for TCP/IP stackAug 01 17:33
schestowitzWas it dual at the end?Aug 01 17:33
Tallkenschestowitz, basically no API, all done through file manipulationAug 01 17:34
schestowitzLots of projects these days 'fake' GPL by just putting a portion under it, but leaving all the rest in a pricey basket.Aug 01 17:34
Tallkendeath is not proprietary software, the death is of shitty proprietary software. There are people who can swear for Apple OSX server proprietary GUI interfaces... in the end it's proprietary, the question is whether proprietary software companies are doing their job or just making money which they don't deserveAug 01 17:35
Tallken*death is not OF proprietary (...)Aug 01 17:35
kentmaschestowitz: BGI are merely an investment arm -  I doubt BGates has any day to day dealings with them.Aug 01 17:35
schestowitzDoes the BG stand for Bill Gates (Investment maybe)? I didn't check. If someone manages his wealth, then...Aug 01 17:36
schestowitzTallken: Apple gets a lot of good PR despite the fact that it's a user.Aug 01 17:36
kentmatalken:  better proprietary software will last longer, but in the end, the GPL will emerge triumphant.  The economics forced by the GPL ensure that this will be so, by specifically solving the "prisoner's dillemma" problem.Aug 01 17:36
kentmaBGI is barclays global investments, I think.Aug 01 17:37
schestowitzkentma: you're assuming they can't force 'gravitisation' with 'regularisation terms' like softare patents, DMCA, etc.Aug 01 17:37
kentmaThey're a fund manager/investment office for independent, well off people.Aug 01 17:38
schestowitzOops.Aug 01 17:38
schestowitzI've just actually read the article rather than glance at it.Aug 01 17:38
kentmaschestowitz: these effects are 2nd order, though - they'll perhaps slow the rate of ascent of foss, but they will not change its slope to -ve.Aug 01 17:39
schestowitzWell, SCO, then Novell... now that Ramji mess. Check out this comment: 01 17:39
kentmaThe linkages are Cascade Investment LLC and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation Trust - they have holdings in Waste Management.  BGI seems to be fronting the opposition to the deal.Aug 01 17:40
schestowitzI found it funny because Dana quoted me as saying that Ramji is "politely stealing from GNU/Linux." Maybe he'll run away sooner or later, just like Taylor and Hilf. Worst job at Microsoft (punch bag).Aug 01 17:40
*kentma looksAug 01 17:40
kentmahehe - that's quite funny.  He won't last long, I think..!Aug 01 17:43
schestowitz:-)Aug 01 17:43
schestowitzI used to think Dana  was against us, but he links to every month or so. There's growing acceptance of our 'thesis'.Aug 01 17:44
kentmamade the mainstream!Aug 01 17:44
kentmaanyway, I need to collect my agricultural vehicle - see you soon!Aug 01 17:44
*kentma goesAug 01 17:44
Tallkenah, Plan9's license is OSI approved and passes Debian Free Software GuidelinesAug 01 18:06
schestowitzAre you using it?Aug 01 18:08
Tallkenlol no, it's most used nowadays as a research platform and as a "it is possible to do" software approachAug 01 18:09
Tallkenthough if it was GPL I'd think twiceAug 01 18:09
Tallkenlinux kernel has support for Plan9-something-filesystemAug 01 18:09
Tallkenwould like to research and test, if I had the time, the conceptsAug 01 18:10
Tallkenthough I should look better into the license to know what it meansAug 01 18:10
Tallkenbut not for nowAug 01 18:10
schestowitzI wonder about Singularity as a "research" platform. My guess is that Microsoft is confused because of the "cannibalisation dilemma"Aug 01 18:12
SeveredCrossYou think they're using singularity as a staging point to a .NET Windows sometime in the future?Aug 01 18:24
schestowitzWindows Presentation FoundationAug 01 18:26
schestowitzBallmer had a leaked memo showing his desired focus on it. And well, Novell has de Icaza shouting about it.Aug 01 18:27
Tallkengotta go. Don't know what Singularity is, will read about it laterAug 01 18:34
Tallkencya later :(Aug 01 18:34
Tallken:)Aug 01 18:34
TallkenupsAug 01 18:34
schestowitzWill do. There's already Prism, Flex, Gear, etc. Microsoft comes from behind aggressively, just as it did with browsers, hypervisors, RIA (XAML)...Aug 01 18:34
*Tallken has quit ("meant :)")Aug 01 18:34
schestowitzInteresting times.Aug 01 18:34
*mib_176fmp (i=86c0fa0a@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 18:35
*mib_176fmp has quit (Client Quit)Aug 01 18:38
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 19:27
*moparx_ (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 19:33
*moparx has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Aug 01 19:47
*Azerthoth ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 21:10
*Azerthoth ( has left #boycottnovell ("(Read error: 666 (No route to hell))")Aug 01 21:10
*mib_t9wafr (i=58026439@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellAug 01 21:50
*mib_t9wafr has quit (Client Quit)Aug 01 21:52
meebeyschestowitz: Mono is not planning to implement WPF at allAug 01 21:58
schestowitzYes, I know. Miguel blogged about it.Aug 01 21:59
schestowitzIt's something to just watch out for anyway. Apple too should be concerned or at least cautious.Aug 01 21:59
*moparx_ has quit ("leaving")Aug 01 22:48
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 1 23:03:37 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 01 23:03
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged)Aug 01 23:03
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 08:34:16 2008Aug 01 23:03
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 01 23:03
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 01 23:04

Recent Techrights' Posts

Debian Developer at Sirius Was Under the Wrong Impression That Staff Must Check or Should See E-mail All the Time (24/7 Work Attention is an Occupational Health Hazard)
My personal and professional experience with a Debian Developer (DD) at work
Techrights More Productive Than Ever Before
Today we finally crossed the 1,900-page milestone
Europe's Adoption of GNU/Linux, by Country (Now About 6%)
in Switzerland, for instance, adoption of GNU/Linux has been profoundly low
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, March 04, 2024
IRC logs for Monday, March 04, 2024
[Meme] Record EPO 'Productivity'
Patent applications granted
Job Groups 5 and 6 at the European Patent Office (EPO) Another Case of EPO Discrimination
an under-reported (or entirely not covered) backlash from last summer
[Meme] Microsoft Fan: "Microsoft is in a panic from the continued loss of its user base"
Published a couple of weeks ago
Android Has Reached New Highs in Mexico, According to Web-Derived Data (Android Now Almost a Majority of the "Market")
Not far from 50%, i.e. half of the "market"
In defence of Albanian women: Outreachy & Debian favoritism scandal
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 04/03/2024: Old Crisis Looming, UPC Already in Infringement of Article 6 ECHR
Links for the day
The Right to Disconnect (Meme and Very Recent References)
relatively new press
Links 04/03/2024: Techno-Babble in Tech Job Ads and Vision Pro Already Breaking Apart
Links for the day
[Meme] 'Debating' People by Subscribing Them to Lots of SPAM
Rebuttal? No, spam.
From Sexual Harassment of Women to Yet More Cybercrimes
They can be prosecuted
Not Only Has Adoption of Windows Vista 11 Flatlined/Plateaued, Now It is Going Down!
Did many people delete Vista 11 and install GNU/Linux instead?
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, March 03, 2024
IRC logs for Sunday, March 03, 2024
Venezuela: Windows Below 70% (Laptops and Desktops), GNU/Linux Up to 7%
It's a lot higher in Cuba
ICYMI: ZDNet Financially Controlled by Microsoft
a history of censoring SJVN's Microsoft-critical articles
Argentina Joining the 4% 'Club' (GNU/Linux on Desktops and Laptops)
Data as ODF
Transparency Sets Society Free
"Convenient delusions" aren't bliss but temporary relief
[Meme] The EPO, Europe's Second-Largest Institution, Which is Contracting With Belarus
Socialist EPO
The European Patent Office's (EPO) Illegal Ban on Mass Communication Gets in the Way of Democracy
The scientific process (patents apply to science) must allow scrutiny, both from within and from the outside
Links 03/03/2024: Depression in Hong Kong, Sex 'Apps' and STIs
Links for the day
Links Gemini 03/03/2024: NixOS and NextCloud, Back Into Ricing
Links for the day
The Debian family fallacy
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
GNU/Linux Peaking in Europe, Android Measured as Higher or More Prevalent Than Windows
Android topping Windows
For Every Action There's a Reaction
Gates lobbying Modi
Like in Africa, Android Takes Control, Raking in Almost All the 'Chips' in Asia
So Microsoft has no OS majority except in Japan and Russia (and tiny Armenia).
Links 03/03/2024: Goodbye, Navalny (Funeral Reports)
Links for the day
Gemini Links 03/03/2024: A Wild Devlog Appeared and GrapheneOS Ramble
Links for the day
Gemini at 3,800+
total number of known capsules at above 3.8k
Be a Navalny
We salute Mr. Navalny
Mozilla Firefox is Back in ~2% Territories, Jeopardising Its Status as Web Browser to Test/Target/Validate With
Some new stats
[Meme] Russian Standards of Law: The Executive Branch Decides Everything
the president's kangaroo court
Up Next: The Tricky Relationship Between the Administrative Tribunal of the ILO and the European Patent Organisation (EPO)
We've moved from presidents who run a republic by consent to corrupt, unqualified, dictatorial officials who bribe for the seat (buying the votes)
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, March 02, 2024
IRC logs for Saturday, March 02, 2024
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
Beware Imposter Sites of Techrights (Not or
Only trust pages accessed through the domains controlled by us
Italy visa & residence permit: Albanian Outreachy, Wikimedia & Debian tighten control over woman
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock