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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 29th, 2008

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jose"As things are, if we make an "invention" (and don't patent it), we open it up to the world to use (like BSD), but if MS creates one (and patents it), we can't use theirs. In both cases, a person stood on shoulders of giants, but only one of these "inventors" allowed others to stand even higher ..and it was the nice inventors (FOSS) that ended up with the short end of the stick! That is bad way to reward innovation -- a fundamental sOct 29 00:01
josecrew-up of patent law."Oct 29 00:01
schestowitzNot destroy the broken law and preserve sane laws?Oct 29 00:02
*schestowitz reads.Oct 29 00:02
schestowitzDo you know how much a patent costs to garden?Oct 29 00:03
josei'm all for destroying broken PUKE laws.. but see what i wroteOct 29 00:03
joseyes, i know that is not prettyOct 29 00:03
schestowitzIt's a law created by the wealthy, for the wealthy.Oct 29 00:03
joseactually could you enlightenOct 29 00:03
schestowitzWe should post it in BN for some feedback maybe.Oct 29 00:03
josewhat would costs be likeOct 29 00:04
joseresearch and write-up could be free in a senseOct 29 00:04
joseand lawyers might participateOct 29 00:04
joseactual filing fees and other costs?Oct 29 00:04
*schestowitz done readingOct 29 00:05
josemaybe we could do a shared partnership where nonFOSS can payOct 29 00:05
schestowitzPatents are hugely expensive and time consuming.Oct 29 00:06
joseand the cosponsor (covering costs) would get a good percentage of such royaltiesOct 29 00:06
josefor regular dev, yesOct 29 00:06
schestowitzFFII works to eliminate swpats and related laws, whereas OIN does a Mixican shootout type-thing.Oct 29 00:06
joseactually, IBM patented something along the lines of using patents to protect small businesses or FOSSOct 29 00:06
josei agree with ffiiOct 29 00:07
josethat is why i wanted opinionsOct 29 00:07
joseto lay everything on the tableOct 29 00:07
schestowitzDon't fire fire with fire. You'll get BURNED. :-)Oct 29 00:07
josei know thatOct 29 00:07
joseyet we fight copyright with copyleftOct 29 00:07
schestowitzDon't wrestle with a pig... you both get dirty, but only the pig enjoys it.. or the TROLL.Oct 29 00:07
josei've heard that one before here.. :-)Oct 29 00:08
schestowitzYes, not mine.Oct 29 00:08
schestowitzTim O'Reilly used it last year (borrowed it from someone).Oct 29 00:08
schestowitzIs it patented? :-)Oct 29 00:08
josei don't want to attempt wasting times on patentsOct 29 00:09
schestowitzNobody is willing.Oct 29 00:09
josebut if we were going to do it.. if it could work out practically.. then you'd want to win that game if possibleOct 29 00:09
josei am notOct 29 00:09
schestowitzFOSS is popular because programmers love code.Oct 29 00:09
josebutOct 29 00:09
josesome people don't mindOct 29 00:09
schestowitzFiling stupid papers and hiring lawyers is a chore.Oct 29 00:09
josethey may want incentives thoughOct 29 00:09
schestowitzOnly Novell devs do such nonsense.Oct 29 00:10
josethe license would be set up so that anyone could step up and do the chore thoughOct 29 00:11
joseand we would all benefitOct 29 00:11
joseit's like the gplv3 i thinkOct 29 00:11
joseexcept to add more lubrication in our favorOct 29 00:12
joselike foss, anyone can pick it up and run with itOct 29 00:12
joseand like gpl, we'd all be guaranteed to benefitOct 29 00:12
schestowitzWho would volunteer to just file for patents?Oct 29 00:13
schestowitzAnd this still isn't protection from trolls.Oct 29 00:13
josesome people might volunteer. if we could play that game well.. to lead to MAD, then more would be willing to take time to lend a handOct 29 00:14
josetrolls would be unsafe if we get enough and if they ever want to use real software for anything in their livesOct 29 00:14
josepersonally, i would like to add that "interests" in a company filing for patents puts you at stakeOct 29 00:15
josei wish the gpl had done thatOct 29 00:15
joseif the license is open ended enough, it would really accel MADOct 29 00:16
josesure, we wouldn't get IBM contributionsOct 29 00:16
josei think this is dealing with puke, but maybe under the right circumstances, we might get a lot of support.. users contributing would benefit .. like with FOSS, most would benefit except a small fraction (shrink-wrapped/ patent mongers)Oct 29 00:18
schestowitzHow about a peripheral 'patent' body?Oct 29 00:19
jose?Oct 29 00:19
schestowitzLike online patent placements?Oct 29 00:19
schestowitzMake a farce of USPTOOct 29 00:20
schestowitzSay it is an unlawful illegitimate institute.Oct 29 00:20
josebut what would be forceOct 29 00:20
josewell, "saying" would not be enough by itselfOct 29 00:20
schestowitzhave you inventions RECOGNISED and DOCUMENTED elsewhere. That's what it's all about, no?Oct 29 00:20
joseif you don't file, i think you lose out on monopoly rightsOct 29 00:21
schestowitzPatents are a certificate symbolising some recognition mfor achieving some mental, well... fart.Oct 29 00:21
joseofficiall fileOct 29 00:21
schestowitzLike emoticons, cookies, and one-click shopping.Oct 29 00:21
josecopyrights: auto; patents: not.. leads to the unfairness for fossOct 29 00:21
schestowitzOr PgUp/PgDn (key for paging)Oct 29 00:21
joseno, the danger is the legal enforcement of monopoliesOct 29 00:22
josewe can market that foss innovates, but that is differentOct 29 00:22
schestowitzIf you can document ideas in some Wikis as you go along (not just in source code), then maybe you can assert something in the form of a /statement/Oct 29 00:22
joseyes, maybe that would be a way forward, but the formality is what adds protection to fightOct 29 00:23
schestowitzI think of something else.Oct 29 00:23
josebtw, i think the asserting is puke .. it's all puke..Oct 29 00:23
schestowitzTrolls aside, if you can accumulate lists of things an aggressor does but never patented, then you can slam them.. well, verbally to to speak, not with the assistance of US law.Oct 29 00:23
josewe may be able to get help from puke dealers if we give incentivesOct 29 00:24
joselike that for royalty payment cases,they get a cutOct 29 00:24
schestowitzThe only money in patents is bullying and litigation.Oct 29 00:24
schestowitzbad name for FOSS..Oct 29 00:24
schestowitzLike defending the GPL, but much worse cause you don't approach with violation of your own CODE.Oct 29 00:25
schestowitzJust IDEAS.Oct 29 00:25
schestowitzThat said...Oct 29 00:25
josecopyright faces same issues except that it is free to acquire and is less broad in scopeOct 29 00:25
schestowitzYou are on to something because..Oct 29 00:25
schestowitzSome guy from FFII thought about creating his own patent troll to attack Microsoft Office.Oct 29 00:25
josethat would help neutralize MicrosoftOct 29 00:25
schestowitzYou could set something up.Oct 29 00:25
josethat cases exists todayOct 29 00:25
josethe issue is will those with the patents play alongOct 29 00:26
schestowitzThen buy patents that Office violates and attack Microsoft with them... just to make a statement.Oct 29 00:26
schestowitzAs he puts it, "go for removal of product from market" (Microsoft Office)_Oct 29 00:26
joseright, i'm surprised this hasn't happened to dateOct 29 00:26
schestowitzYes, I know that exists.Oct 29 00:26
schestowitzBut if it comes from a troll-like aggressor that's targeting one of the biggest pro-swpats lobbyinst, then..Oct 29 00:27
jose10 patents a month focused on MSO would get the laws changed tout de suiteOct 29 00:27
schestowitz*lobbyistOct 29 00:27
josefighting is costly thoughOct 29 00:27
schestowitzFFII might be able to get funding, but I'm not sure.Oct 29 00:27
schestowitzYou need to just fish for the right patents but also hire lawyers.Oct 29 00:28
josemessy.Oct 29 00:28
schestowitzjose: you can just threaten them, no fight.Oct 29 00:28
josepuke is messyOct 29 00:28
schestowitzLXER has a page too.. hold on.Oct 29 00:28
joseyeahOct 29 00:28
schestowitzhttp://lxer.com/module/db/viewby.ph...Oct 29 00:28
joseso do we need anything further than what we have today?Oct 29 00:28
schestowitzPatents Microsoft may be infringing...Oct 29 00:29
schestowitz"Patent Region Patent NR TitleOct 29 00:29
schestowitzEP 0,689,133 Method of displaying multiple sets of information in the same area of a computer screenOct 29 00:29
schestowitzEP 0,195,098 System for reproducing information in material objects at a point of sale locationOct 29 00:29
schestowitzUS 6,167,394 Information management system with remote access and display featuresOct 29 00:29
schestowitzEP 0,537,100 A method of implementing a preview window in an object oriented programming system"Oct 29 00:29
joseso, i'll repeat:Oct 29 00:30
josedo we need anything further than what we have today?Oct 29 00:30
joseanyway, that license suggestion may not hurt if done right and it could certainly help put some patents in our cornerOct 29 00:30
schestowitzYesOct 29 00:31
joseit's pukaciousOct 29 00:31
schestowitzWe need to respond.Oct 29 00:31
schestowitzMicrosoft is crumbling and it'll probably go aggressive directly, or by proxy (IV et al)Oct 29 00:31
joseminimum, we should be able to pressure a scenario where all FOSS becomes immune to patents.. though defining the scope of "FOSS" might get trickyOct 29 00:32
josewe have the arguments on our side, but we might still need fireOct 29 00:32
schestowitzWhat is FOSS?Oct 29 00:33
joseto get laws to change as they shouldOct 29 00:33
schestowitzA lot of OSS is semi-proprietaryOct 29 00:33
josein this case that may not hurtOct 29 00:33
schestowitzI'drather limit things to Free software (GPL).Oct 29 00:33
josesince the result would be non patent enforcement over anythingOct 29 00:33
schestowitzFOSS may not deserve special treatment, but Free software has the political element that's more vengeful.Oct 29 00:34
josei'd rather that gpl not be allowed on closed platforms like windowsOct 29 00:34
schestowitzI'll do a post about it tomorrow.Oct 29 00:34
schestowitzAlso on that E-mail.Oct 29 00:34
schestowitzMicrosoft is trying to devour FOSSOct 29 00:34
schestowitzBlackboard tries the same thing, but that's another separate story.Oct 29 00:34
schestowitzBlackboard is funded (was funded) by MicrosogftOct 29 00:35
schestowitzPart of the same toxic waste pretty much..Oct 29 00:35
schestowitzThe criminals still snub the EU regulators: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquire...Oct 29 00:37
josethe monopoly provisions of patent laws are too strong.Oct 29 00:38
josethis is something that could get watered down, but in a way where foss is still not off the hookOct 29 00:38
joseyet we couldn't stop ms from putting out msoOct 29 00:38
josevarious watering down efforts could leave us weakOct 29 00:39
schestowitzPublic optnion matters.Oct 29 00:39
joseif people were "building and sharing with FOSS", we would have much more leverageOct 29 00:40
schestowitzTo talk about activism for a moment, I mainly read and write stuff.Oct 29 00:40
schestowitzI don't go out to the streets to protest physically.Oct 29 00:40
schestowitzBut with awareness comes a wider response and it's our better change...Oct 29 00:40
schestowitzRemember Chris' "Sue me Fisrt" from last year?Oct 29 00:40
josethink soOct 29 00:40
josewebsite got taken down rightOct 29 00:41
schestowitzIf you show people how ugly a company has become using patent threats, they will naturally die off.Oct 29 00:41
schestowitzMicrosoft is said to be gaming many sites to paint itself as a good company. it fools a lot of people. Gates and his bogus 'Fundation' too... joint by the press he owns.Oct 29 00:41
joseif people don't use foss and if we don't have weapons, i think we will have the rules changed so that we are vulnerableOct 29 00:42
schestowitzIf people understand who runs the company -- "criminals", depending on who you ask, including sources close to the company -- then people will avoid Microsoft.Oct 29 00:42
josemany elements within the foss community want to form friendship bonds with msOct 29 00:42
josewe can't even get our own house in orderOct 29 00:43
josemoney has influenceOct 29 00:43
schestowitz"Sue me First" was actually about people signing up for Microsoft to sue them (for Linux violations). A way of saying Microsoft is BSing.Oct 29 00:43
joseyeahOct 29 00:43
schestowitzThe system is corrupt too.Oct 29 00:43
josememory is refreshedOct 29 00:43
schestowitzRMS is spending a lot of his time these days educating people about the umrella that permits abusive monopolisation and corruption.Oct 29 00:44
schestowitzThe current economic collapse too is a result of corruption.Oct 29 00:44
schestowitzAt the very top level.. imposed by those macro-economists who overlooked the system at a World Bank-level.Oct 29 00:44
schestowitzBN has had some successful impact in helping people realise and remember who Microsoft is.Oct 29 00:45
schestowitzThat's what makes Microsofters like Miguel de Icaza so uncomfortable about the site.Oct 29 00:45
josebyfield wrote a "neutral" article about BNOct 29 00:45
schestowitzhaha.Oct 29 00:46
schestowitzDid you see Sam's article? It took me by surprise.Oct 29 00:46
joseand wrote another about rules of engagement but i didn't read itOct 29 00:46
josewhichOct 29 00:46
schestowitzBruce just attacked the site. Pillock.Oct 29 00:46
schestowitzjose: yes, he told me he would wrOct 29 00:46
schestowitzjose: yes, he told me he would write that second article too.Oct 29 00:46
schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/vie...Oct 29 00:47
schestowitzMiguel de Icaza called Sam a "Jihadist" IIRC, so he didn't take that well.Oct 29 00:47
schestowitzWhen he saw the Linux.com he must have reacted also as defence for his own side.Oct 29 00:48
schestowitzGive it a year, give it twoOct 29 00:48
schestowitzWhen the trolls use Mono and other "Free" Posionware to attack GNU/Linux, then they'll try to deny that people knew in advance.Oct 29 00:48
josethe prob with mono isn't that i will use it. it's that it could grow to encompass too much and of decent quality (in theory). overall, it would take away resources from the safer and more strategic fossOct 29 00:51
schestowitzyes, it's happening already.Oct 29 00:52
schestowitzBanshee, Moonlight, Tomboy...Oct 29 00:52
schestowitzThey will sooner or later claim that all the 'cutting-edge' apps are using the 'cutting-edge' MSMONOOct 29 00:53
joseschestowitz, just sent you another (short) email.Oct 29 01:00
josethe added reading info is not that short though.. (can skip article if want though it's kind of interesting)Oct 29 01:00
joseno need to read nowOct 29 01:00
josethe commentsOct 29 01:01
joseroy, the comments may not be that clear, sorry, but ask away if you wantOct 29 01:05
schestowitzNo, it's clear.Oct 29 01:06
schestowitzI think that given this documented conversation and the notes, there's a good post coming.Oct 29 01:06
schestowitzI'll also discuss this with FFII if I get the chance.Oct 29 01:06
josei sent you another link (2nd email), but i was looking over that and it isn't clear at all.. so don't worryOct 29 01:08
joseit's complicated to explain that projectOct 29 01:09
josewithout tangible materialOct 29 01:09
schestowitzWhat Free software needs is not just code.Oct 29 01:10
schestowitzIt needs protection for the existing stuff too.Oct 29 01:10
schestowitzKDE development is already stifled by patents (e.g. Apple stuff)Oct 29 01:10
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joseschestowitz, let me add something..Oct 29 01:55
schestowitzOKOct 29 01:55
josethe incentive to those writing up the patents can existOct 29 01:55
josebecause there is a business  model of selling propri licenses to third parties that payOct 29 01:56
josewhere you own copyrights to say gpl code (so they'd have incentive to pay for special licenses).Oct 29 01:56
josethis is where the patent writers can pull in their royalties (even if tiny)Oct 29 01:56
joseplus, many would have as an incentive to tap into ms'Oct 29 01:57
joseclosed source monopolyOct 29 01:57
josepricingOct 29 01:57
joseas long as there is closed sourceOct 29 01:57
josethere would be potential for royaltiesOct 29 01:57
josecause otherwise, you are right, there might be less than zero motivation for almost anyone to do the bulk of writing up a patentOct 29 01:57
josei can even see law and engineering students contributingOct 29 01:58
schestowitzWhat about trolls?Oct 29 01:58
josewhat specifically?.. you mean our protection from them?Oct 29 01:58
josewell, a shell corp might be safe if they don't use closed software for very muchOct 29 01:58
josebut we can go after those owning a stake in such companiesOct 29 01:59
josewe'd neutralize ms at leastOct 29 01:59
joseie, if you own a stake in a company that attacks, you lose your protections for the software you useOct 29 01:59
josethen trolls would be isolatedOct 29 02:00
jose rather than be leveraged as the loophole they represent today for getting around gpl3 or whateverOct 29 02:00
joseif it is MAD for enough people laws can changeOct 29 02:00
josewill changeOct 29 02:00
josebut we want protection from what they might be changed toOct 29 02:01
joseif possibleOct 29 02:01
josei don't like puke, but this might simply be an extra toolOct 29 02:01
joseand puke sweepers might handle the dirty work for usOct 29 02:01
josewe'd benefit and they would tooOct 29 02:01
josetrolls could always be a problem, but by themselves, laws would change i thinkOct 29 02:02
joseanyway, the best part is that the license would set up the framework .. it would create a lot of food for those that want to play the patent game.. but with FOSS safe in proportion to more participating to gather up that food.. i mean pukeOct 29 02:03
josei thinkOct 29 02:03
schestowitzWill you market is as P.U.K.E.?Oct 29 02:07
joseMAD fro PUKEOct 29 02:08
josePUKEsOct 29 02:08
schestowitzI still think that trolls can only be made toothless and clawless through systenmwide changes.Oct 29 02:08
josethis may help accel to that point while giving us strength along the way and creating something that can counter ms more effectively in the meantimeOct 29 02:08
joseyou are right that this would have to be marketedOct 29 02:09
schestowitzWho will sign up and based on what premise/promise?Oct 29 02:09
joseWell, today, you can't come up with a patent unless you invent.. this would open up a framework allowing you to patent what you see in exchange for immunity and maybe even giving the project a perce cut of royalties taken against closed sourceOct 29 02:10
joseof course, most patents are bogusOct 29 02:10
joseok, maybe we can add something about retaining rights to also use the patentsOct 29 02:11
joseit would be co-owned so that any party could use itOct 29 02:11
joseotherwise, ms would leverage this and not sue itself, etcOct 29 02:11
joseno that didn't make senseOct 29 02:11
josethere are details to be ironed out for sureOct 29 02:12
schestowitzIt sounds like OInOct 29 02:12
joseallowing offensive use would attract puke sweepersOct 29 02:12
schestowitzThat's of no use.Oct 29 02:12
schestowitzWell, as phrased above anywayOct 29 02:12
josewe'd have coverage for all fossOct 29 02:12
joseinstead of just linux or some limited setOct 29 02:13
josebut what is "all foss"?Oct 29 02:13
josedetails detailsOct 29 02:13
joseif it was like oin, it would be different in that contributions would projects could be used by patents created by others because of co-ownershipOct 29 02:14
joseor rather, the inventor would get the patentOct 29 02:14
josebut with an auto license that the ones writing it up would get access to royalty fees -- that would be their incentiveOct 29 02:15
josethe inventors have to be the patent owners i think based on us patent lawOct 29 02:15
josedetailsOct 29 02:15
josethis wayOct 29 02:15
joseprior artOct 29 02:15
josewould not just be useful in court to refute attacking patentsOct 29 02:15
josebut could actually be seized ahead of time to create a patent for usOct 29 02:15
schestowitzFrom trolls too?Oct 29 02:16
schestowitzMicrosoft could use its proxies.Oct 29 02:16
schestowitzAlthough it becomes too transparentOct 29 02:16
schestowitzIf Microsoft attacked from IV, it would be too obvious.Oct 29 02:16
schestowitzSo the proxy, much like some exposed lobbying arms, is rendered useless.Oct 29 02:16
schestowitzSCO comes to mindOct 29 02:16
josewell, that is why i mentioned that the auto protection would extend to users that did not attack or own interests (define?) in attackersOct 29 02:16
joseso all foss users would gain license unless you attacked (like existing clauses)Oct 29 02:17
josethis is a little confusing now hold onOct 29 02:17
joseok, you see an inventionOct 29 02:17
josethat falls as contribution under this licenseOct 29 02:18
joseyou write up a patent which would be filed under the inventor(s) nameOct 29 02:18
joseyou auto get access rights to royaltiesOct 29 02:18
joseroyalties to what?Oct 29 02:18
josewell, all "foss" users would be immune from royalties unless they violated as just stated (eg, ownership in troll)Oct 29 02:19
josealso, closed source software users would not get an auto license but would have to deal with the person that has those rightsOct 29 02:19
josesome amount of royalties would be reserved for the project/inventorOct 29 02:19
josethe writer would get the restOct 29 02:20
josethe inventor would also be able to seek royalties in case the writer didn't (eg, to neutralize ms)Oct 29 02:20
joseremember, foss users and devs are safe if they don't attack or own trollsOct 29 02:20
joseclosed source and violators would be subject to having to license (probably for royalties)Oct 29 02:21
schestowitzI'll need to think about it.Oct 29 02:21
josethis would be a direct and immediate way to combat Microsoft's closed source supported monopoliesOct 29 02:21
schestowitzWhat about Apple?Oct 29 02:22
josewe might have a clause to deal with the agpl effectOct 29 02:22
joseapple would need licenses sureOct 29 02:22
joseand the patent writer or the inventors could come after appleOct 29 02:22
joseif apple does the closed source thing.. which they do todayOct 29 02:22
joseanyway, so this would be a direct weapon against the powerful closed source monopoliesOct 29 02:23
josefoss safeOct 29 02:23
joseand the royalties incentive would get many patent writers quickly to our sideOct 29 02:23
josebuilding strategic patents and patents useful to bring closed source monopolies down quickerOct 29 02:24
joseand the foss devs would for the most part do nothing different than what they have been doingOct 29 02:24
josecodingOct 29 02:24
schestowitzIt's more important to kill the FUDOct 29 02:24
schestowitzMicrosoft won't sue quite soon, but it'll use extortion.Oct 29 02:24
joseand maybe helping out a bit with the patent.. since they know they might get some moneyOct 29 02:24
schestowitzPressure on vendors like Red Hat and fear in customers' minds.Oct 29 02:25
josethis gives us a larger amount of defensive FUDOct 29 02:25
schestowitzYesOct 29 02:25
josered hat could say, yeah, but ms violates 2000 patentsOct 29 02:25
josethat where we have a license and they don'tOct 29 02:25
josethe pressure would more quickly mount to use open source (defined?)Oct 29 02:26
josenot shared source, btwOct 29 02:26
joseand this would help tackle the monopoly issue that the antitrust auth have been powerless against for so longOct 29 02:26
josems cannot sustain their effectiveness if they go open sourceOct 29 02:27
joseand if they will use monopoly money against us, we might as well get a cutOct 29 02:27
jose:-)Oct 29 02:27
joseI'm getting simply MAD about thisOct 29 02:27
schestowitzRed Hat already has OINOct 29 02:27
josePatents U Kan EnheritOct 29 02:27
josei know that's badOct 29 02:27
schestowitzI'm just a little tired (2:30AM)Oct 29 02:28
joseawful actuallyOct 29 02:28
josei have to go tooOct 29 02:28
schestowitzWe should continue this tomorrow.Oct 29 02:28
schestowitzgnOct 29 02:28
josemaybe tomorrow it will make more senseOct 29 02:28
josegnOct 29 02:28
joserh has oin.. this would be a framework that could be used to grow oin faster and larger.. it could also end up giving foss projects royaltiesOct 29 02:29
josei know who'd thunk i'd be talking about royalties to foss projects when we are such enemies of patentsOct 29 02:30
joseusing patent law against them.. by leveraging numbers, we could show how useless and unfair the system isOct 29 02:30
joseremember, today, patents are built separately not in collaborationOct 29 02:30
joseand the inventors frequently don't participate, losing out on an opportunity for oin defense for exampleOct 29 02:31
josesince in us law at least, the inventor must be the one to fileOct 29 02:31
joseit's adding lubrication to the systemOct 29 02:31
joseleveraging foss for patents as we already do for copyrightsOct 29 02:32
josefoss community that isOct 29 02:32
josethe bottom line is that if we are going to be attacked by patents, and if we can leverage our numbers to give ourselves more leverage, and if a byproduct could mean that attackers like microsoft/"interop" are more quickly neutralized, and if in the process foss projects and inventors might gain some money, and we'd get patent writers on our side, then maybe we should seize the opOct 29 02:34
joseroy, if we find a way to *really* tilt the system to our side, then all of those with ideas working on ways to marginalize foss will lose their appetite and have to agree with us or at least go back to the drawing boardOct 29 02:38
josegreasing the wheels of patent collaboration can help take us from a weak number (eg) 8 position right to the top of the raceOct 29 02:39
joseAND we can give the writers protection themselvesOct 29 02:40
josethis would get a bunch more patent contributions for foss, eg, from ibm and othersOct 29 02:41
josethey would have incentives to participate on our defense as much as possible, else someone else scoop up the opportunity and charge them a fee later on.Oct 29 02:41
joseie, patent writers that participated could get some protection for their own closed source products.. ah, nevermind, this would offer strong monopolies a way to get out of thisOct 29 02:42
josedetails details detailsOct 29 02:42
jose???Oct 29 02:42
josenote that we are not penalizing commercial foss as ms is doing (eg, red hat and others). we'd be charging for those that would keep around their closed source monopolies.. which would have given them monopoly pricing powerOct 29 02:46
josethis is pretty much how dual licensing is used sometimes: stay foss and you are fine, or go closed but pay a fee.Oct 29 02:47
joseimagine if foss devs, rather than merely producing prior art, could end up in a partnership to make royalties from closed source, while someone else does the dirty work (in exchange for some rights)...Oct 29 02:49
josethat is a fairer deal to our devs.. less like the patent equiv of public domain that exists today and instead be more like the gpl which has teethOct 29 02:50
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joseroy, the great idea went down in flamesOct 29 03:11
josemad means you don't attackOct 29 03:11
joseif we did, then foss would have problemsOct 29 03:11
josewhich means no pressure against closed sourceOct 29 03:11
josewell, it would maybe if the company didn't have patentsOct 29 03:12
josewithout the royalty incentive (eg, from a big fish like ms), then patent writers would have few motivations i thinkOct 29 03:12
josewhatever.. tomorrow i'm busy almost the entire day but maybe something else will come up.. the concept of collaborating on patents might still be useful.Oct 29 03:14
joseeg, if the costs aren't too high, people might still want to contribute for free since this would give us a concrete weapon as a hedge (stronger than simply prior art)Oct 29 03:15
josegnOct 29 03:16
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*tessier makes a submission to /.Oct 29 10:09
schestowitzWhich one?Oct 29 10:09
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tessierWhich one what?Oct 29 10:12
tessierWhich /.?Oct 29 10:12
schestowitzHeh. No, what story?Oct 29 10:12
tessierOh....the little known story of the downfall of LinspireOct 29 10:12
schestowitzAre you still in touch with Robert?Oct 29 10:12
tessierMichael Robertson?Oct 29 10:12
tessierhttp://kevincarmony.blogspot.com/2008/1...Oct 29 10:12
schestowitzOops. yes.Oct 29 10:13
schestowitzHehe. Let me see.Oct 29 10:13
tessierNo, I've never really been "in touch" with him. I never liked the guy. Real asshole.Oct 29 10:13
tessierAlthough I have his email and he and I are both on an mp3-alumni mailing list where all of us former employees still chat about stuff.Oct 29 10:13
tessierI had a couple potential opportunities to work for him again but I've always passed, even when I was hurting for work.Oct 29 10:14
schestowitzWhat a mess.Oct 29 10:14
tessierWow, past 3am. I gotta be at work in almost 5 hours. Time to sleep. night!Oct 29 10:14
schestowitzGNOct 29 10:14
schestowitzIceland seeks aid from ECB, Fed; hikes interest rate to 18 pct < http://afp.google.com/article/... >Oct 29 11:03
schestowitzHow predictable... "More Election Shenanigans - Check Your Registration NOW" < http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/28/52849 >Oct 29 11:06
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schestowitzFunny cartoon : http://vistasucks.files.wordpress.com/20...Oct 29 11:59
MinceR:>Oct 29 12:04
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/20... "With just a week to go before the US presidential election, academics, politicians, and voters are voicing increased distrust of the electronic voting machines that will be used to cast ballots."Oct 29 12:05
schestowitzAmazing!! "Stevens faces a maximum of 35 years in prison. But he's a Senator. So nobody is actually expecting any jail time." < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/28/t... >. This system is corrupted beyond belief.Oct 29 12:08
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schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.ph... "Bruce your ability to offend people and then disingenuously crying wolf does not amuse... "Oct 29 12:11
schestowitz'This was a common trick by Rob Enderle [...] Back in the anti-trust trial/sco trial days; put out something that is nothing more than flame-bait and then cries of "poor me" or worse "those open-source meanies".'Oct 29 12:11
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_st...Oct 29 12:11
schestowitz' Ah brucy [...] He must be torqued off about the backlash from his boycott-novell article on Linux.com. Here's news for you bruce: It's not just FOSS.'Oct 29 12:12
schestowitz"The fact is the FOSS community is a community plagued by fears; fears about Microsoft, sellout Linux vendors, patent trolls, SCO, Apple, you name it. And when people get afraid, they get irrational, and everyone starts looking suspicious."Oct 29 12:12
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twitter:) see there? you did not have to write anything about BB at all.Oct 29 14:30
twitterThe last quote gets it backward.  It would be irrational to not be suspicious of unrepentant, convicted felons like M$.  They are powerful, so it takes real bravery to call them out.Oct 29 14:32
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_DougHow to track a teenager hacker :)Oct 29 15:18
_Doug01. Go on social networksOct 29 15:18
_Doug02. Go on YoutubeOct 29 15:18
_Doug03. Go to the hacker websiteOct 29 15:18
_Doughttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi...Oct 29 15:18
_Doug:)Oct 29 15:18
schestowitzHeyOct 29 15:21
_Doughey dude are u a hak0r :)Oct 29 15:22
_Dougshoosh .. don't tell anyone on Facebook :]Oct 29 15:22
_Dougwhat's missing from this 'report' is the computing ecosystem all these hacks run on ...Oct 29 15:23
schestowitz"Ecosystem" is a bad word... like "blogosphere" it should be loathed.Oct 29 15:24
schestowitzEcosystem is what I call shillcosystem. It's a grouping of vested interests.Oct 29 15:25
_Doughacksystem ?Oct 29 15:25
_Doughackosystem ??Oct 29 15:25
_Doug"Bosses must stop leaving data security to the "IT boys" and other staff and take responsibility themselves"Oct 29 15:26
_Doughttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_po...Oct 29 15:26
_DougIt's the bosses that are the source of the problem ..Oct 29 15:26
_Dougif they let the 'IT boys' do their job, then their wouldn't be all these data lossesOct 29 15:27
schestowitzOh, I see...Oct 29 15:27
_Douglike leaving MI5 secret laptops on the trainOct 29 15:27
schestowitzSo you're referring to non-technical people who have a hardon for Exchcnge?Oct 29 15:27
_Dougwho in their right mind walks around with confidential datas on a laptop, on a USN key, or posts it through the Rayal MAil ???? !!!!!!Oct 29 15:28
schestowitzOr people who choose technology based on brochures and "someone to point a finger at" when things go awry?Oct 29 15:28
schestowitzA hacker. :-)Oct 29 15:28
schestowitz*cracker, sorryOct 29 15:28
_Dougquote: 'Windows 2000 has X zillion of lines'Oct 29 15:29
schestowitzFrom the video?Oct 29 15:29
_DougI have to sit there while some brain dead CIO reads me out loud from PC world ..Oct 29 15:29
schestowitzWell, it's the BeebOct 29 15:29
schestowitzFrom the media channel that says transistors are tiny computersOct 29 15:29
_Dougno, thast quote is from real life ..Oct 29 15:29
schestowitzIDG?Oct 29 15:30
schestowitzPCWorld?Oct 29 15:30
schestowitzThey are IDG (IDC), you know?Oct 29 15:30
schestowitzWintel press, funded partly by Microsoft through studies and all...Oct 29 15:30
_DougIt was how they described the power of W2K, in terms of number of lines ..Oct 29 15:30
_DougHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAOct 29 15:30
_DougIt was how they described the power of W2K to the pointy haired ones, in terms of number of linesOct 29 15:31
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/06/...Oct 29 15:31
_Dougthat's how they vost programmers, in terms of number of lines they can bang out per hour ..Oct 29 15:32
_Doug'they cost'Oct 29 15:32
schestowitzYes.Oct 29 15:32
schestowitzSo if someone removes many bugs, the measurable progress is low.Oct 29 15:33
schestowitzhttp://www.thisisby.us/index.php/con...Oct 29 15:34
benJIman_Doug: Noone sensible does.Oct 29 15:34
benJImanGood programmers often have a negative line count per hour.Oct 29 15:34
_Dougit's just a metric they come up with thet the PHB would understand .. lines of code .. good grief ..Oct 29 15:35
_Doug.. LINES OF CODE ..Oct 29 15:35
_Doug'How to track a teenaged hacker' .. they call this hacking .. more like scribbling graffiti on a wall ..Oct 29 15:37
twitterW2K source code, "we are morons" http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2...Oct 29 15:37
twittershow that to the boss.Oct 29 15:37
_Dougand no mention of the root cause of the 'hacking' phishing virus infestation ..Oct 29 15:37
_Dougthis is all so 1993 .. :)Oct 29 15:38
_Doughttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107048/Oct 29 15:38
_DougClippy is having the worst day of his life ... over and over again ..Oct 29 15:39
twitterPoor choice of software by ill informed decisions is the only thing you should blame the user for in security problems.Oct 29 15:39
_Dougand who chooses the software .. not the IT 'boys' to be sure ..Oct 29 15:39
twitterFor example, users should not have to worry about lost data on portable devices if the device is encrypted.Oct 29 15:39
_Dougsome fucking idiot who believes the ability to read makes him qualified to make IT related decisions ..Oct 29 15:40
twitterSure, M$ based decisions come from the top, like the London stock exchange fiasco.Oct 29 15:40
schestowitz:-)Oct 29 15:40
schestowitzThe 'IT boys' chose Vistaserver for stock markets?Oct 29 15:40
schestowitzThat's begging for a black screen of you-know-whatOct 29 15:41
twitterBegging for a Black Tuesday.Oct 29 15:41
twitterahhh!Oct 29 15:41
_DougI don't think so .. the management consultants choos it, most probably ..Oct 29 15:41
schestowitzFurse?Oct 29 15:42
twitterThe person who chose M$ for the LSE was not an IT person nor qualified to make the decision.Oct 29 15:42
twitterThe proof is in the performance.Oct 29 15:42
schestowitzFurse should not resign, she should be sacked : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09...Oct 29 15:43
schestowitzLondon Stock Exchange in denial over system outage : http://www.computerworlduk.com/management/it-bu...Oct 29 15:43
twitterJust the same, we should not blame the user for nasty breaches of security.  Decision makers and M$ are to blame for the most part.Oct 29 15:43
schestowitzThe LSE has crashes many times since then... but not in the technical sense.Oct 29 15:43
schestowitzFTSE is back up today... above 4000Oct 29 15:43
schestowitzAbout those Windows Live Messenger outages… : http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1585Oct 29 15:44
_Dougwho was it that one said the Internet was to important to be left to the propellerheads ?Oct 29 15:45
_Doug"To be sure, the CIO (not on the board) is ex-Accenture man David Lester"Oct 29 15:46
schestowitzWho said "Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey"?Oct 29 15:46
_Dougwell that explains it ..Oct 29 15:46
_Dougif you want to kill an IT project hire on EDS and Accenture to run it ..Oct 29 15:46
twitterI'll be happy if we don't suffer a depression over a few companies that deserve to fail.  I just don't see how it can be avoided with the current concentration of wealth and all the factories being in China.Oct 29 15:46
_Doughave EDS and Accenture bid to run Chimas IT infrastructure, :)Oct 29 15:47
schestowitzMoto headcount... ? "Sanjay Jha, co-CEO at Motorola, is planning another round of layoffs in the mobile division as the group struggles to reduce the range of supported platforms from the existing 15 to something a little more manageable." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/...Oct 29 15:47
schestowitzAt least they are joining Android.Oct 29 15:47
schestowitzConvergence at last. They can bring their stack parts to OHA.Oct 29 15:48
schestowitzThere was an article in El Reg about the NHS failure the other day.Oct 29 15:48
schestowitzTheir wasting of like 12 billion pounds could save some banks, no?Oct 29 15:48
schestowitzPrivacy bomb: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1...Oct 29 15:49
_Dougluckly most perscription medicines has no effect ..Oct 29 15:50
_Doug:)Oct 29 15:50
schestowitzLinks dump for old news.. http://www.internetling.com/2008/10/28/50-resour... ... any use for just that, unless it's all news?Oct 29 15:53
schestowitzHOWTOs too.... who actually looks for very specific HOWTOs among the news, just because they are newly-published?Oct 29 15:53
twitterHere's an ongoing troll fest.  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1010345  Dedazo and Macthorpe are the same person.  It's funny to watch him try to outbid himself as the biggest troll.Oct 29 15:55
schestowitzBN is going to surpass 100 GB of traffic tomorrow... for October.Oct 29 15:55
twitter:)Oct 29 15:55
schestowitzWhy do they bother.Oct 29 15:56
schestowitzShills4shilsOct 29 15:56
schestowitzDefend the other dunces uv' the emporer.Oct 29 15:56
_Doug"If you change tabs To spaces, you will be killed doing so fucks the build process!"Oct 29 15:56
schestowitz*emperorOct 29 15:56
_Doug"ACHTUNG!!! this is a special hack for IBM antivirus software"Oct 29 15:57
twitterThey are the same person, obviously.  I wonder if AlexGr is the same person too.  Maybe BB.  Who knows?Oct 29 15:57
_Doug'CallProc32W is insane. It's a variadic function that uses the pascal calling convention. (It probably makes more sense when you're stoned.)'Oct 29 15:58
MinceRwindows?Oct 29 15:59
schestowitzMicrosoft Response to Zsulik's Comments  : http://slashdot.org/comme...Oct 29 15:59
schestowitzWhat is he like, a spokesman for Redmond now?Oct 29 15:59
schestowitz*LOL* http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2... "By Peter galli"Oct 29 15:59
schestowitzGalli is now a Microsoft employeeOct 29 15:59
schestowitzHe used to do their dirty jobs in the press (Ziff/Gates)Oct 29 16:00
schestowitzControversy Swirls Around Changes in GPLv3 [...] By Peter GalliOct 29 16:00
schestowitzIt would be nice to see a nice list of eWeek articles from (now) Microsoft employee Peyte GalliOct 29 16:01
schestowitzHe threw a lot of FUD.Oct 29 16:01
schestowitzhttp://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Sou... "But ACT (the Association for Competitive Technology), which has previously been accused of being an association founded and cultivated solely to protect Microsofts interests in Washington, views the issue differently."Oct 29 16:03
twitterNasty little trolls don't like being exposed.Oct 29 16:03
twitterha haOct 29 16:03
schestowitzNice one, Pete. Quoting a Microsoft shill arm/pressure group...  <  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/08/ass... >. If you have time, it's worth studying these 'moles' http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09... http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/04/...Oct 29 16:04
_Doug"UBERSOFT. We Patent, So You Can't"Oct 29 16:16
_Doughttp://www.groklaw.net/article...Oct 29 16:16
schestowitzUK's €£12.7 billion NHS scheme in trouble : http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqui...Oct 29 16:16
schestowitzThis is the third one in recent days... http://www.ubersoft.net/comic/hd/... http://www.ubersoft.net/comic/hd/200...Oct 29 16:18
schestowitz"Currently the only thing saving the project is the high cost of cancelling contracts with IT suppliers. In other words, the government has wasted so much dosh already, it might as well try to plug in the lemon."Oct 29 16:19
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_Dougonly a geek would understand this 'void initRand();' as a random link ..Oct 29 16:19
_Doughttp://www.ubersoft.net/void-initrandOct 29 16:19
_Dougonly it isn't :oOct 29 16:19
_Doug"the only thing saving the project" .. the Titanic defense .. if we keep going fast enough, we won't hit an iceberg Oct 29 16:20
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_DougAndroid flaw due to use of Open Source components say security researchers ..Oct 29 16:56
_Doug"The vulnerability is due to the fact Google did not use the most up-to-date versions of all these packages,"Oct 29 16:56
_Doughttp://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/22291...Oct 29 16:56
_Doug"Because Android relies on some 80 different open-source components, keeping track of security disclosures and bug fixes could prove difficult, potentially leaving the platform open to future attacks"Oct 29 16:56
twitter12.7 billion pounds?  does it really cost that much to sftp dicom files?Oct 29 16:57
schestowitzIt's more than that.Oct 29 16:57
twitterBecause M$ depends on hundreds of different secret source components, keeping track of anything has proved difficult.Oct 29 16:58
twitter "In other words, this particular security vulnerability that affects the G1 phone was known and fixed in the relevant software package, but Google used an older, still vulnerable version." ick, if true.Oct 29 17:00
twitterI'm having a hard time getting through the clueless parts.Oct 29 17:00
MinceRi wonder how distros manage to keep track of security disclosures and bug fixes thenOct 29 17:00
MinceRoh wait, they do it better than microsoft ever has.Oct 29 17:00
_Doug'12.7 billion' ? wha ?Oct 29 17:01
schestowitzBoycott Novell...Big in  Japan... http://sourceforge.jp/magazine/0...Oct 29 17:01
twitterIt's funny how M$ uses the poor security record to tar other companies.Oct 29 17:01
twittercool, but I have no idea what they are saying.Oct 29 17:02
twitterDoug, see Roy's NHS link.  http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...Oct 29 17:03
schestowitzThe number has been out for like a year.Oct 29 17:03
schestowitztwitter: I have no idea even what /I/ am said to be saying. I don't really speak Japanese.Oct 29 17:04
schestowitzI installed Skype this morning. it's embarrassing.Oct 29 17:05
MinceRseems to be signed by Byfield thoughOct 29 17:05
twitterhttp://babelfish.yahoo.com/transla...Oct 29 17:06
twitterSorry to hear about skype problems.Oct 29 17:06
MinceRlooks like a translation of an article someone has already linked here.Oct 29 17:07
twitterGnome netmeeting became Ekigia (sp).  KDE's chat has web cam stuff but not for all protocols.Oct 29 17:07
_Doug"Quite, like whether you do not know the fatigue of, Schestowitz "Oct 29 17:07
_Doug:)Oct 29 17:07
schestowitztwitter: no, there's no problem. But I've avoided Skype cause it's proprietary. This time I have no choice cause the phone system is dysfunctional.Oct 29 17:08
schestowitztwitter: I checked Ekiga the other day. The Windows client (for peers) is still in Beta, so...Oct 29 17:08
MinceRskype isn't merely proprietaryOct 29 17:08
MinceRit's a black boxOct 29 17:09
schestowitz_Doug: is that the translation?Oct 29 17:09
MinceRi'd go as far as to call it spywareOct 29 17:09
schestowitzYes, I know.Oct 29 17:09
schestowitzSurveillance on phones is the same though... it's a black box too.Oct 29 17:09
_Dougtranslation, yesOct 29 17:09
schestowitzTop-priority projects list from the FSF includes a Skype substitute.Oct 29 17:10
twitterThe translation is just as verbose as BB native, but it makes a little more sense that way.Oct 29 17:10
schestowitzGovts. /LOVE/ SkypeOct 29 17:10
schestowitzThey must be getting back doors to it.Oct 29 17:10
schestowitzThere\s evidence abound.Oct 29 17:10
twitter Boycott Novell has expressed “great crack is borne”Oct 29 17:10
schestowitzAnd in China the Govt. stalks the textual chats, based on word triggers.Oct 29 17:10
twitterChina has that cute little cartoon cop to make sure people don't use dirty words like freedom.Oct 29 17:11
schestowitzHaha.Oct 29 17:12
schestowitzYes, I know that one.Oct 29 17:12
schestowitzhttp://images.google.com/images?um=1&am...Oct 29 17:13
schestowitzNovell boosted with its OOo fork.. http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/...Oct 29 17:15
twittera little too real for me http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/i...Oct 29 17:19
schestowitzArticles like this < http://www.convergedigest.com/standards... > absolutely FLOOOOODED the news. Why is it so newsworthy? We didn't hear when the other companies joined. Did /. push this agenda too? 'Open' Microsoft?Oct 29 17:21
_DougOther members of the AMQP Working Group include Cisco, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Boerse Systems, Envoy Technologies Inc., The Goldman Sachs Group, iMatix, IONA Technologies, J.P. Morgan, Novell, Rabbit Technologies Ltd., Red Hat Inc., TWIST Process Innovations Ltd., WSO2 and 29West Inc ..Oct 29 17:22
schestowitzHas RMS ever traveled to China? I know he was afraid of Russia,Oct 29 17:22
_DougLook who isn't there .. about two only software companies ..Oct 29 17:22
twitterEWeek Articles by Peter Golly Golly 4/24 of this year.  http://www.eweek.com/cp/bio/Peter-Galli/Oct 29 17:22
schestowitz_Doug: yes, not a word about it. Then Microsoft joins and the news is FLOODED by praises for the Vole.Oct 29 17:22
_DougIONA .. used to be big in online commerce solutions ..Oct 29 17:23
_Dougsorry, three software companies, MS, Novell and Red Hat ..Oct 29 17:24
schestowitztwitter: lots of Microsoft stuff. Hardly ever critical at all.Oct 29 17:24
twitterYeah, but they end on 4/24.  Missed the word end above, my bad.Oct 29 17:25
schestowitzMS agenda-pushing: portuno_diamo:   http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/corpor...Oct 29 17:26
schestowitzSomeone warned me about that  " portuno_diamo" character the other dayOct 29 17:26
schestowitzhttp://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/I...    ... Just like OLPC... shoot first, then pretend to have apologised. Intel's gangster-like behaviour is still being concealed being logos and images.Oct 29 17:31
_Dougnotice how being rebuffed by Yahoo was another good stratigic decision on behalf of MS .. they're right even when they're wrong :)Oct 29 17:32
_Doug"Matters would be different had Microsoft bought Yahoo during late first quarter .. Instead, Microsoft is flush with cashOct 29 17:33
_Doug"Oct 29 17:33
_Dougbut they had to borrow to finance the3 Yahoo takeover .. and the bid still isn't over ..Oct 29 17:34
_Doug"perhaps ironically, the economy will do for Microsoft what it couldn't competitively: Eliminate troublesome Web 2.0 platform companies"Oct 29 17:34
twitterportuno_diamo is that guy for real?  Is Joe Wilcox for real?  Clueless.Oct 29 17:34
twitterM$, ignoring the internet since 1995.Oct 29 17:35
twitterThat's a competitive advantage.Oct 29 17:35
_Dougexplain what magic sauce MS lives on that it is immune to the economic downturn ..Oct 29 17:35
twitterWORD.DOC, ha haOct 29 17:35
_Doug"The economic blight will kill many trees in the forest. Microsoft will replace them."Oct 29 17:35
twitterGoogle and ODF sail along.Oct 29 17:35
twitterWindows market share must be falling by now.Oct 29 17:36
twitterI visited LSU's Student Union yesterday.  Every other laptop was a Mac.Oct 29 17:36
twitterZero Vista seen.Oct 29 17:37
schestowitztwitter: it does (market share falls)Oct 29 17:37
_DougMicrosoft slugs aged care centres ..Oct 29 17:38
_Doughttp://www.australianit.news.com.au/s...Oct 29 17:38
twitterWilcox sez, " Microsoft couldn't be bringing its cloud services to market at a better time. For many cash-strapped businesses, hosted versions of Exchange, SharePoint and other Microsoft server software will be hugely appealing, particularly when reducing staff and management costs. "Oct 29 17:39
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twitterWhat a moron.  There are plenty of email providers, including google.Oct 29 17:39
schestowitzYesOct 29 17:39
schestowitzThe site is biased though.Oct 29 17:39
_Dougwhy will 'the cloud' be more sucessfull than Google Apps ?Oct 29 17:40
twitterIt's also a huge FU to MSCEsOct 29 17:40
schestowitzBecause the Slog sez soOct 29 17:40
twitterfailOct 29 17:40
_Doug"tried, true and supported commercial software matters more when times are tough"Oct 29 17:40
schestowitz*LOL*Oct 29 17:40
schestowitzAnd rain is good... well, for the gardenOct 29 17:40
twitterthen he suggests moving to new untried commercial softwareOct 29 17:41
schestowitzClouds are dangerousOct 29 17:41
_Doug"Microsoft Releases Emergency Critical Patch" http://www.crn.com/security/211600229Oct 29 17:41
_Doug:)Oct 29 17:41
schestowitzRemember DRM/MSN shop for music?Oct 29 17:41
twitterhalf his success companies are web 1.0 survivors.Oct 29 17:41
schestowitzShut downOct 29 17:41
schestowitzMusic deadOct 29 17:41
schestowitzThe Register had something... waitOct 29 17:41
schestowitz"When you hit the quota...it's possible we will block access to your site," Microsoft's Manuvir Das told PDC after a session, Lap Around Windows Azure. Das did try to reassure potential developers blocking was not guaranteed, but noted: "We have the capability to do that and may have to do that." < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1... >Oct 29 17:42
PetoKraushaha beranger :DOct 29 17:42
schestowitzWhat did he do *this* time?Oct 29 17:43
PetoKrausit happened to me once; we didn't mention a guy for about a half a yearOct 29 17:43
PetoKrausand it turned out he read the logs of the channelOct 29 17:43
PetoKrausbut was afraid to come inOct 29 17:43
PetoKrausand the day he was mentioned, he actually came in to defend himselfOct 29 17:43
schestowitzWho's that?Oct 29 17:44
PetoKrauspoor old sod, reading trough heaps of rubbishOct 29 17:44
schestowitzNovell employees sometimes come here.Oct 29 17:44
PetoKrausBeranger reminded me of thisOct 29 17:44
PetoKrausBeranger: come in, don't worry, you may as well say something useful!Oct 29 17:44
_DougbenJIman .. wassup ?Oct 29 17:44
PetoKraus(http://beranger.org/index.php?page=dia...)Oct 29 17:44
schestowitz*LOL*Oct 29 17:45
PetoKraustouche, i sayOct 29 17:46
_Dougot: see 'Joe the Plumber' work his brain ..Oct 29 17:52
_Doughttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vFC9jv9jfoAOct 29 17:52
_Dougand 'Joe the Plumber' isn't really a plumber :)Oct 29 17:52
PetoKrausit's a fake.Oct 29 17:53
PetoKrausobviouslyOct 29 17:53
PetoKrausfrom the first glimpse.Oct 29 17:54
PetoKrausi just don't know whether McCain or Obama hired himOct 29 17:54
_DougI suspected that as well .. Joes is just too primed .. it's just he has no real come-back to Obama ..Oct 29 17:54
PetoKrausi ain't suspecting. I am sure. the moment you see high school girl students posting pro-obama posts on facebookOct 29 17:55
PetoKrausyou pretty much don't believe anything is real.Oct 29 17:55
_Doug"Joe the Plumber is now Joe the foreign policy advisor?"Oct 29 17:57
_Doughttp://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/...Oct 29 17:57
_DougIS this a spoof ?Oct 29 17:57
schestowitzStill a few days left for dirty tricks.Oct 29 17:57
schestowitzThe McCain video I posted made it into FSDaily's front page,Oct 29 17:58
schestowitzHere's something I don't get. Microsoft unveiled Web-based Office years ago (almost 2)... and it failed to attract user by its own admission.. they they remake old news... http://www.pcworld.com/articl...Oct 29 18:00
schestowitzSun too did this with OpenSolaris... 'announcing' it a zillion times saying "This is IT! This is THE release." After some powwow in the press, which thought it was really news, there was nothing.Oct 29 18:01
schestowitzAnd same with Vista 7. Oct 29 18:01
schestowitzMicrosoft showed some 'leaked' (fake 'leaks'.. like viral blogs) of Vista 7 before.Oct 29 18:01
schestowitzIt's a Vista with some selective screen captures of new buttons, wallpapers and slapstick.Oct 29 18:02
schestowitzVista 7 *IS* Mojave. It's Vista under another name.Oct 29 18:02
_Doug'THE Labor Party has removed all speeches from the lead-up to the last election from its website amid claims of plagiarism in politics .. "We are just trying to keep the website as up to date as possible," Mr Bitar said. 'Oct 29 18:06
_Doughttp://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0...Oct 29 18:06
schestowitzLinux-based smartphone now just $179.99 : http://www.pcworld.com/article/152... (take that, Apple)Oct 29 18:08
schestowitzBut Google's Android is faux-sourceOct 29 18:08
schestowitzYou can't build the s/w for other phones. Same with Chrome, AKAIK.Oct 29 18:08
schestowitz*AFAIKOct 29 18:08
schestowitzApple and Microsoft hand in glove: http://www.pcworld.com/article/15... ( iTunes 8 to Vista: Give Me a B, an S, an OD )Oct 29 18:10
schestowitzFujitsu Cuts Financial Outlook on Tough Market, Strong Yen < http://www.pcworld.com/article/15297... >Oct 29 18:11
_Dougkeeping the campaign clean: tying Obama to middel-eastern terrorists ..Oct 29 18:11
_Doughttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9LxOMX57kOcOct 29 18:11
schestowitzThe US needs someone more respected. As someone said to me, this year's candidates are both iffy. Palin and McCain are much worse.Oct 29 18:14
_DougMcCain called Obama too intellectual ?Oct 29 18:17
schestowitzIt's weird that David M Williams  covers a story like this: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21410/1054/ He's very pro-Linux. Weird...Oct 29 18:18
_Doug"MYOB .. is being re-engineered using leading edge Microsoft technologies"Oct 29 18:22
_Dougwha ?Oct 29 18:22
_Doug"MYOB makes the move to SQL Server, .NET "Oct 29 18:23
_Dougis this the same leading edge technologies that powers the NHS and the LSE ?Oct 29 18:24
schestowitz iSoft outsources NHS work to India: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/e... Oct 29 18:25
schestowitz"But despite having placed its offices close to Manchester's three main higher education institutions, iSoft's chief executive, Patrick Cryne, admitted yesterday that much of the software manufacturing work will be done at its new facility in Chennai (Madras), India. "Oct 29 18:25
schestowitzNHS Scotland pools budget for Microsoft savings < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... >Oct 29 18:26
_DougI wonder what they gave MYOB to 'invest' in SQL.NETOct 29 18:26
schestowitzhttp://radar.oreilly.com/20... "We can not afford to take the risk of a Vice-President (especially for a candidate as old as McCain) who is scornful of science, denies human involvement in creating climate change, and is completely unprepared to tackle this most urgent of problems."Oct 29 18:28
_DougMYOB, only on Mac or longVista 7Oct 29 18:28
*libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovellOct 29 18:34
schestowitzLongVista. I like that. They tried to dodge the LH name around 2005 when it collapsed and got direputed.Oct 29 18:37
trmancohttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/29/technology/b...Oct 29 18:53
schestowitzBrilliant post from Adam Williams about Ubuntu: http://www.happyassassin.net/2008/...Oct 29 18:53
schestowitztrmanco: I don't bother mentioning Vista 7. That, too, will go the way of the dodoOct 29 18:54
trmancofor sure it willOct 29 18:54
schestowitzIf it appears some time in 2010 (maybe), then it'll soon turn out to be just another Vista, despite the ads.Oct 29 18:54
schestowitzSame Vista DRM prison.Oct 29 18:54
schestowitzSame underlying codebase that's a mess.. too much for Microsoft's engineers to manage.Oct 29 18:55
schestowitzThey promised to make it modular. Did they do it? No, not this time. So it's still goo.Oct 29 18:55
MinceRi wouldn't call them engineersOct 29 18:55
schestowitzThey said it would boot fast... well, they soon forgot all about that promise and ran away to hide under a  rock.Oct 29 18:55
schestowitzMS-Certified Sandwich engineers (MCSE)?Oct 29 18:56
schestowitz;-)Oct 29 18:56
schestowitzEither way, all their code slingers seem to be leaving.Oct 29 18:56
schestowitzhb-1 without any familiarity with the code take over and probably break a lot of stuff.Oct 29 18:56
schestowitziTunes 8 to Vista: Give Me a B, an S, an OD < http://www.pcworld.com/article/152967/i... >Oct 29 18:57
schestowitzhttp://mdzlog.wordpress.com/... "There are currently over 46000 open Ubuntu bug reports in Launchpad."Oct 29 19:03
MinceRMinesweeper Consultants and Solitaire ExpertsOct 29 19:03
schestowitzInteresting. http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/re... "I'm sure Asus has their reasons for not allowing a download of the restore ISO. Perhaps they are under some legal obligation to keep it off the digital shelves."Oct 29 19:09
schestowitz"As it stands now, I can't put Xandros back onto my EeePC. Thankfully, there are alternatives."Oct 29 19:10
MinceRwho misses xandros anyway? :>Oct 29 19:10
schestowitzDo the Dellbuntu laptops come with a recovery CD?Oct 29 19:10
schestowitzThe point I'm looking at in Shawn's article is to do with codec licences and all... and Xandros.Oct 29 19:11
schestowitzKDE gets the attention of researchers: New KTorrent version plugs security vulnerabilities ( http://www.heise-online.co.uk/open/Ne... )Oct 29 19:13
trmancohttp://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/o...Oct 29 19:22
schestowitzGoogle Attacks The Messenger Over Android Vulnerability < http://techdirt.com/articles/20081027/19... >Oct 29 19:24
*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")Oct 29 19:26
schestowitzThey can optimise the installation/build, trmanco. It's also possible to slim down Vista and to show something moving on 500 MB of RAM.Oct 29 19:27
trmancoslim down vistaOct 29 19:28
trmancobetter slim down XP thenOct 29 19:28
trmancoeven moreOct 29 19:28
trmancoBRBOct 29 19:28
schestowitzVista ran on netbooks too, if you tired /hard/.Oct 29 19:29
schestowitzTrying hard for demo purposes isn't enough. http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_b...Oct 29 19:29
MinceRdoes novell receive payment for suse on the MSI Wind and the HP 2133 Mini-Note PC?Oct 29 19:30
schestowitzI don't know.Oct 29 19:31
schestowitzMicrosoft probably gets paid though. They take a portion from Novell.Oct 29 19:31
trmancohttp://news.netcraft.com/archives/2008/10/29...Oct 29 19:55
schestowitz"Apache once again shows the largest growth, gaining 463 thousand sites this month."Oct 29 19:56
schestowitz"What's a Lynus?" http://gizmodo.com/5070019/walmart...Oct 29 19:59
schestowitzIBM is feeding the Yankee Group. Bad IBM.  http://elibrary.line56.com/detail/RES/12249...Oct 29 20:00
schestowitzAnd later Microsoft pays these shills as well and they produce something against Linux. Same with the Linux Foundation and IDC (Al Gillen and other sellouts)Oct 29 20:01
*[H]omer has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Oct 29 20:01
schestowitzWe ought to mention FOSS projects more. Just got this mail from a reader: "I can't remember which article I was going to comment on.  It was more than afew hours ago and I got interrupted.  But my comment was to make a reminder to *always* name at least one real technology in each article, per MS imitation."Oct 29 20:03
schestowitz"Look at it this way: if they can keep you complaining about their product, at least your preoccupied with theirs and not the real ones. Might keep a mapping table handy.  If product X gets mentioned by MSFTers, respond with Red Hat and Ubuntu.  if Y, then Apache and Lighttpd.  If Z then thunderbird with lightning.  If W then OOo, etc."Oct 29 20:04
schestowitz"sponsored by IBM" http://elibrary.line56.com/detail/RES... Yankee Lie(C). Next, please. $20,000 per 'study'?Oct 29 20:04
*[H]omer (n=[H]omer@moscow.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 29 20:08
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerOct 29 20:08
*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 29 20:13
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/... " His warning follows an admission yesterday by Jacqui Smith that the technical work on creating a giant centralised database of all email, text, phone and web traffic will go ahead, despite the fact that ministers have decided to delay the legislation needed to set it up and instead put the proposal out to consultation."Oct 29 20:32
schestowitzhttp://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/Schne... "Schneier: Enjoy surveillance while it is still visible. Measures such as ID cards are a temporary measure before biometric technology becomes ubiquitous; That was the warning from security guru Bruce Schneier this week who claims that surveillance technology will get more sophisticated and, more importantly, smaller and harder to deteOct 29 20:34
schestowitzct"Oct 29 20:34
*_Doug has quit ()Oct 29 20:40
trmancohttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/28/...Oct 29 21:04
schestowitzLeave Vista 7 alone. Seen that H-P thing yet? :-)Oct 29 21:04
trmanconopOct 29 21:04
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-17938... http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=10613Oct 29 21:04
schestowitzhttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/...Oct 29 21:04
*trmanco looksOct 29 21:05
schestowitzThey tried to deny the BusinessWeek article from last month about H-P dodging Vista and Microsoft to build a custom GNU/Linux... they were right.Oct 29 21:05
schestowitzBig newsOct 29 21:05
schestowitzNo SIGNS of SUSE (H-P used to stock SLED)!Oct 29 21:05
schestowitzbenJIman will be thrilled that H-P canned SUSE.Oct 29 21:06
schestowitzhttp://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-1053... "The real news here is that HP DROPPED SUSE FOR UBUNTU!!! :D "Oct 29 21:06
trmancohahaOct 29 21:08
trmanconow going back to the one I mentionedOct 29 21:10
trmanco"We've always known Microsoft intends Windows 7 to run on netbooks, and we got a small taste during the PDC keynote: Windows SVP Steve Sinofsky held up his "personal" laptop running Windows 7, an unnamed 1GHz netbook with 1GB of RAM that looked a lot like an Eee PC, and said that it still had about half its memory free after boot. (We're guessing it was running a VIA Nano, given the announcement this morning and since most Atoms run aOct 29 21:10
trmancot 1.6GHz.)"Oct 29 21:10
trmancohmmmOct 29 21:10
trmancohalf is goodOct 29 21:10
trmancoI wonder how bloated and cluttered It will become after installing all those proprietary driversOct 29 21:11
trmanco512MB a, Linux can do a lot better, Windows has a lot to catchOct 29 21:12
trmanco"At the other end of the scale, Windows 7 supports machines with up to 256 CPUs."Oct 29 21:12
trmancoI wonder how many cpu's Linux supports ?Oct 29 21:12
schestowitzIt's all vapourware.Oct 29 21:12
schestowitzIt's a demo. Wait until the hocus pocus show endsOct 29 21:12
*trmanco is waitingOct 29 21:13
schestowitzThey do this to freeze the market... give home to naive companies.Oct 29 21:13
schestowitzPC makers move closer to a post-Windows world < http://bigtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/... >. Savour another victory.Oct 29 21:26
*_Doug (n=_Doug@ip-217-204-51-230.easynet.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellOct 29 21:28
_Dougwhen Cray ruled the world ..Oct 29 21:31
_Doughttp://www.theregister.co.uk/...Oct 29 21:31
twitterHeh, even the Wintel press is getting tired of waiting http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215739Oct 29 21:31
trmancohmmOct 29 21:31
trmancoU just came up with somethingOct 29 21:31
trmancoI*Oct 29 21:31
schestowitzTa for the link!Oct 29 21:32
twitterWindows 7 is Vista with a new coat of paint, Azure is Hailstone 2.0, ouch.Oct 29 21:32
schestowitzYesOct 29 21:32
schestowitzJoel Spolsky said so too.Oct 29 21:32
schestowitz Hailstone I mean...Oct 29 21:32
trmancohttp://blog.somekool.net/files/kde...  | http://media.arstechnica.com/images/wind... == Looks like we have twinsOct 29 21:32
schestowitzHe said that several months ago though.Oct 29 21:32
trmancoI' mostly referring to the start menuOct 29 21:33
schestowitzVista 7 Fisher Price Edition. :-0Oct 29 21:33
trmancololOct 29 21:33
twittermeanwhile compiz fusion runs on first generation eeepc.Oct 29 21:34
schestowitz"Just as slow as Vista. In fact, Windows 7's performance is virtually identical to that of Vista SP1 on the same hardware. If you were unhappy with Vista's CPU-hogging, memory-sucking ways, Windows 7 will provide little relief."Oct 29 21:34
schestowitzSee, trmanco, I told you.Oct 29 21:34
schestowitzYes, KDE4 runs on Netbooks with eye candy too.Oct 29 21:34
trmancoAaggrOct 29 21:35
schestowitzWe have a winner. Vista 7 is another loser, so the winners are Apple and GNUOct 29 21:35
trmancoMicrosoft sure does innovateOct 29 21:35
schestowitzMarketing innovationsOct 29 21:35
schestowitzHow to 'leak' screenshotsOct 29 21:35
schestowitzHow to 'demo' for performance and rename products.Oct 29 21:36
trmancobetter KDE screenshot -> http://www.ngohq.com/attachments/general-softwa...Oct 29 21:36
schestowitzAs I said earlier, Vista 7 is the Real Slim Sha... eerrr... the Real Mojave.Oct 29 21:36
trmancololOct 29 21:36
trmancoooo MojaveeeééOct 29 21:36
trmancocrapOct 29 21:38
trmancoI don't remember what was the name of one of M$ services that ripped off Canonical's logoOct 29 21:38
trmancoAlumniOct 29 21:39
trmancohttp://msanet.org/Oct 29 21:40
trmancohahaOct 29 21:40
twitterInteresting, coming from this source http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/10/mi...Oct 29 21:41
schestowitzI remember that.Oct 29 21:41
schestowitzBut it's a generic logoOct 29 21:41
schestowitzNo-one stole anything.Oct 29 21:41
MinceRlooks a lot like the edubuntu logoOct 29 21:41
*pombat42 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Oct 29 21:41
schestowitztwitter: the big news is about H-POct 29 21:41
twitteroh?Oct 29 21:41
twitterOh!  "non-Windows PC in stores."Oct 29 21:43
twitterniceOct 29 21:43
schestowitztwitter: Your slalkers bark again. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/29/mso...Oct 29 21:44
twitterwoof woof.  Nothing of value was added.Oct 29 21:52
twitter" None of this should suggest that Microsoft is in some death spiral."  No, not at all.  Just 8 years without a successful main product launch and declining revenue.Oct 29 21:54
twitterIt's like they read my Death Watch journal.Oct 29 21:54
schestowitz"I’d be glad to help tilt lotus into into the death spiral. I could do it Friday afternoon but not Saturday. I could do it pretty much any time the following week." --Brad Silverberg, MicrosoftOct 29 21:55
twitterHere's a couple of older HP articles announcing their intentions and reasoning.   http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?... http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl...Oct 29 21:57
twitterGotta love the Vista Failure Log.Oct 29 21:57
twitter:)Oct 29 21:57
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Oct 29 22:04
schestowitzQuickie: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/29/h...Oct 29 22:05
schestowitzThis is old... HP CEO: Vista Never Had Its Moment in 2007 < http://advice.cio.com/laurianne_... >Oct 29 22:06
twitterYeah, I told you it was old.Oct 29 22:09
twitterBut they planned on doing something and now it's here.  What other HP news was there?Oct 29 22:10
twitterahhh, UbuntuOct 29 22:10
twitterthat's nice.Oct 29 22:10
twitterI broke my Konqueror.  :'(  need to start article submission again.Oct 29 22:12
twitterbut all of the links are right here.Oct 29 22:12
schestowitzhttp://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/2334... ZOMG. With /open source/ tool? What does that have to do with the flaw?Oct 29 22:13
twitterYou have to be careful with oyster knives.  They look dull but will go right through your thumb muscle if you slip.Oct 29 22:14
schestowitzSwiss Army knives too. I was unfortunate to find out.Oct 29 22:16
schestowitzNo BlackBerry Open Source OS Confirmed by RIM < http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/10/29/... >Oct 29 22:17
schestowitzEating Microsoft's lunch: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/200... "Meanwhile, although enterprise, license-based learning management platforms continue to dominate the higher education landscape (56.8 percent use Blackboard, down from 66.3 percent last year), the potential for increasing open source adoption remains. "Oct 29 22:18
*_Doug is now known as clonebotOct 29 22:24
clonebot:)Oct 29 22:24
clonebotgtg ..Oct 29 22:24
*clonebot has quit ()Oct 29 22:24
schestowitzMicrosoft warns of financial crisis email scams < http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-244756.html >Oct 29 22:40
schestowitzThose scams arrive from Microsoft Windows botnets.Oct 29 22:41
twitterHP news is off to the races http://slashdot.org/firehose.p...Oct 29 22:44
twitterBotnets, M$'s unique contribution to distributed computing.Oct 29 22:45
twitterHere's something funny.  http://uk.youtube.com/watch...Oct 29 22:50
twitterI think I'll make it the theme song of the M$ Death Watch.Oct 29 22:50
*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 29 22:50
schestowitz*LOL*Oct 29 22:51
schestowitzTroling: Will the Motorola gamble hurt open source < http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3039 >Oct 29 22:56
schestowitzTrolling with a provocative headlineOct 29 22:57
*pombat42 has quit ("Leaving")Oct 29 23:01
*libervisco has quit ("Remember, remember the fifth of november...")Oct 29 23:16
schestowitzMandelson's dept mulls UK internet power grab < http://www.theregister.co.u... >; DHS cybersecurity boss fights back against critics < http://www.theregister.co.uk/... >Oct 29 23:18
*libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovellOct 29 23:18
schestowitzNice oh him...: "I can make. Roy is a good guy, he’s actually taking out the meat and lay it on the table." <  http://standardsandfreedom.net/in... >Oct 29 23:33
MinceRgnOct 29 23:34
schestowitzCheap Apple... Psystar planning Mac OS X notebook < http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=2460 >Oct 29 23:41
schestowitzFedora for OLPC being sold... Fedora 10 on SD Card for the OLPC Laptop < http://on-disk.com/product_info.ph... >Oct 29 23:42
schestowitzTeenage cyber-criminals run riot <  http://notnews.today.com/2008/10/28/teenag... <>Oct 29 23:45
schestowitzhttp://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/10/28...  "With all eyes on turbulent global financial markets, Britain's Prince Charles has issued a stark warning about climate change."Oct 29 23:57

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