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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 3rd, 2008


Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitzSlashdot is not a F/OSS site anymore, so that's not of much relevance in my eyes. They flame F/OSS people if it makes $$.Nov 03 00:00
MinceR 03 00:03
MinceRthe only case i agree with not disclosing vulnerabilities fully and very publicly is in a short timeframe after discovery, to allow for fixing and patching.Nov 03 00:04
schestowitzI remember now. Wordpress had similar issue.Nov 03 00:05
schestowitzIn our list we had people sharing attack code and ugly stuff.Nov 03 00:05
schestowitzSo Matt Mullenweg et al created an E-mail address for private disclosure.Nov 03 00:05
schestowitzThis reminds me that I need to do the mailing lists stats for WordPress-Hackers today.Nov 03 00:06
schestowitzMicrosoft Has A Problem: Software Patents Go Up In Smoke < >. As Dana puts it < >: "Certainly we are not at the end of this, but for the first time in a long time advocates of software patents have been put on the defensive. This is really big."Nov 03 00:08
schestowitzThe only thing more draining (emotionally and practically) was the OOXML corruptions. Perfect white-collar crime example.Nov 03 00:08
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*tessier is very happy to see software patents on their way outNov 03 00:22
tessierschestowitz: You following btrfs? I'm excited about it. We really need something like that to compete with ZFS.Nov 03 00:23
schestowitztessier: yes, I follow it quite closely.Nov 03 00:23
schestowitzOracle needs that too.Nov 03 00:23
schestowitz 03 00:24
twitterThe Bilski case, before the decision. 03 00:27
tessierschestowitz: I really like the idea of obsoleting hardware RAID.Nov 03 00:28
tessierAnd a COW based filesystem has lots of benefits.Nov 03 00:28
schestowitzWhat do you rely on the FS for?Nov 03 00:29
tessierI don't use btrfs at all right now. But as soon as the on-disk format is stable I'm going to experiment with putting some things on it.Nov 03 00:30
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tessierI was quite tempted to try to use ZFS through FUSE but that's not really any less beta or more supported than btrfs right now and I really want to support the home-grown GPL'd filesystem which is better for us in the long-run anyway.Nov 03 00:31
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schestowitzThat would leave Mac OS and Windows further behind in any case, unless they come up with something they keep under the wraps.Nov 03 00:33
schestowitzAlthough Mac OS X starts having some ZFS.Nov 03 00:33
MinceRgnNov 03 00:37
twitterHas any of you actually lost data from an ext2 or ext3 file system?Nov 03 00:40
twitterI have not noticed a loss in ten years of use.  Pictures, music, email, classwork.  All of it is there when I look.Nov 03 00:42
schestowitzYes, same here. Nov 03 00:44
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schestowitzI was assuming tessier managed datacentres where scalability, backup, etc. come into play.Nov 03 00:44
tessierYes, I do.Nov 03 00:45
twitterRed Hat has an interesting program to use desktop drives as a distributed file server.Nov 03 00:45
tessiertwitter: No, I have never lost any data that wasn't specifically of my own doing.Nov 03 00:45
twitter:)Nov 03 00:46
tessiertwitter: I have accidentally mounted ext3 read/write to two different systems before and needed a good fsck which misplaced a few files. A few other boneheaded moves in my 15 years of using ext2/3. But the fs itself never crapped out on me.Nov 03 00:46
tessierI hope btrfs will be as good. In fact, I bet it will be better. COW is so much simpler.Nov 03 00:47
schestowitzreiserfs disappointed me last year. I think it was a power outage that had it ruined.Nov 03 00:50
twitterEeeks, that's what it is supposed to be for, isn't it?Nov 03 00:51
tessierreiser 3 or 4? 3 is rock solid. 4 was never completely there.Nov 03 00:52
tessierzfs/btrfs both use a lot more memory and cpu than the others but on modern hardware it won't be noticed and it goes towards a good cause. reiser did too. They are all good for finding hardware problems. Don't run any of these filesystems without ECC memory.Nov 03 00:53
schestowitzI can't recall which version it was, but I know that 4 had issues.Nov 03 00:54
schestowitzNovell dropped it as default fs around that time. I can imagine it drove Hans mad.Nov 03 00:55
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twitterSomething interesting 03 00:59
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twitterIt's nice to think of such things when all of my stuff is stored on a few rag tag boxes, external drives, and optical disks.  If I put the box on my "server" it will overheat.Nov 03 01:03
twitterI think I'll fix that tomorrow.Nov 03 01:03
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twittergood nightNov 03 01:29
schestowitzgnNov 03 01:29
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schestowitzHey, mib_bgo6g0 Nov 03 02:13
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mib_bgo6g0Yes SirNov 03 03:56
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MinceRhayNov 03 07:17
MinceRafaict i've never lost files to ext3 or reiserfsNov 03 07:18
MinceRxfs, on the other hand, murdered several of my files -- and my gentoo install.Nov 03 07:18
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MinceR 03 09:12
MinceRsilverblight has DRM built-in?Nov 03 09:12
schestowitzit's all about DRM. Let me see the URL.Nov 03 09:12
MinceRaboveNov 03 09:13
schestowitzIt's about video streaming video... with DRM. Flash 10 goes down the same path.Nov 03 09:13
MinceRicNov 03 09:13
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schestowitzOpenSUSE... no celebrating? 03 13:00
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MinceRthey aren't paid to celebrate thatNov 03 13:07
schestowitzI'll blog this quickly. :-)Nov 03 13:08
schestowitzGreat. some readers are offering help now. We might have some summary pages soon. I thought of something along the lines of: 03 13:14
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MinceRnice.Nov 03 13:43
schestowitzIf I look at posts by tags, I get something like this: ... Most recent posts at top. What if we had a page where key posts were lined up (chronologically) to tell the story with one line summaries? Pages like this one have a lot of impact: 03 13:45
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schestowitz"You can't make anything that pants [Vista] twice".. < >Nov 03 14:13
schestowitzWikipedia half-baked admits Jimmy Wales < >Nov 03 14:18
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schestowitzMicrosoft's leaked documents might get some Googling soon... "Adds OCR technology so Google engine can index and search scanned PDF documents" < >Nov 03 15:40
twitterniceNov 03 15:42
twitterhere's a dishonorable mention, 03 15:42
schestowitzNo trolls yet. Must be a slow day.Nov 03 15:45
schestowitzHere's how Gartner says: "We were totally wrong, and maybe we lied." Gartner to Slash 2009 Chip Forecast by $25 Billion < >Nov 03 15:47
schestowitzThis one is great news to Free software: Government Tech Spending to Drop < >Nov 03 15:47
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schestowitzMicrosoft puppet setback < Wipro Delays Atlanta Center ( ) > and Apple fights against Microsoft's reputation: Apple Ads Hold Off Microsoft's Promos < >Nov 03 15:49
schestowitzApple is really injuring the "Microsoft" brand, which is helpful to everyone but the Microsoft+ecosystem.Nov 03 15:50
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schestowitzComputers suspected of flipping votes in US presidential race < >Nov 03 17:00
schestowitz "And entrepreneurs are still into flipping companies as fast as they can find buyers - which is exactly what their VC investors want them to do.  What about Google, you may ask?  Don't be surprised to learn that Larry Page and Sergey Brin never lost control of their company to their VC investors."Nov 03 17:14
schestowitzSarko with the Republicans... 03 17:31
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twitterGovernment tech spending freeze, that's probably what M$ meant when they said they would "freeze the market" to maintain their position.Nov 03 18:41
twitterSpending cuts won't do software freedom any good if they are not the result of free software migrations.Nov 03 18:42
twitterThe only upside to it is that they won't be able to move onto Vista, which includes substantial hardware costs.Nov 03 18:43
MinceRthey could move to free software without spending, couldn't they?Nov 03 18:47
MinceRall it needs is a good IT staffNov 03 18:47
MinceRthen again, replacing staff might not even qualify as "spending"Nov 03 18:47
schestowitzChange costs moneyNov 03 18:48
schestowitzSimon Phips wrote about this earlier.Nov 03 18:48
schestowitzPhippsNov 03 18:48
twitterThey would have to run a study of the type that got hosed over in Mass.Nov 03 18:48
twitterM$ had to destroy Quinn's effort because every other state could have followed.Nov 03 18:49
twitterWhile it seems obvious to any competent practitioner that desktops could be upgraded at zero cost and great savings, government requires studies.Nov 03 18:50
twitterThings will move anyway if the economy sinks into a depression.Nov 03 18:50
twitterAt that point, no one will spend money on software licenses and people will be free to get things done without top down assistance or roadblocks.Nov 03 18:51
twitterState IT spending in Louisiana got so ridiculously corrupt that they only allowed state agencies to buy Dells.Nov 03 18:52
twitterEven the Universities.Nov 03 18:52
schestowitzWell, that's how it works.Nov 03 18:53
schestowitz 03 18:54
twitterThe University was on a bid system ten years ago, you could pick and chose from hundreds of suppliers.  School systems were also free and small resellers flourished.Nov 03 18:54
twitterNetworks were almost private affairs and the internet was really free.Nov 03 18:55
twitterCentralization that's happened over the last eight years is incredible, costly and will quickly come unglued with a real downturn.Nov 03 18:56
twitterFixed budget levels will not allow for change.  Increases or decreases will.  Strange isn't it?Nov 03 18:56
schestowitzYesNov 03 18:59
schestowitzWhich is why there's opportunity.Nov 03 18:59
schestowitzBut by raising exist barriers (e.g. with OOXML, XAML, etc.), Microsoft is hoping to block it.Nov 03 19:00
twitterI'm thinking those barriers are toast now.Nov 03 19:02
twitterThey too are expensive change.Nov 03 19:03
twitterThey managed to sneak some Office 2007 into local schools but I don't think that has legs.Nov 03 19:04
schestowitz*exit, not exist BTWNov 03 19:05
schestowitzOffice 2007 is another raised exist cost (OOXML)Nov 03 19:06
schestowitzStupid BECTA allows this to happen because of the ODF SP vapourwareNov 03 19:06
schestowitzMicrosoft exists and thrives only in a state of /forcing/ people to keep buying its sofwtareNov 03 19:07
schestowitzESR said this when Microsoft tried to hire him. Nothing has changed and OOXML is a step back (closing), not opening.Nov 03 19:07
schestowitzMicrosoft broke compatibility with s/w that handled binaries.Nov 03 19:07
schestowitzNow they have some more lock-in and the only solution is to see Microsoft going into debt (which it will) and then devolve into something else that might leave the industry in peace  and rest.Nov 03 19:08
twitterM$ going into debt is a good thing.  they won't be able to bribe anyone when they are out of money.  A freeze might screw them more than I imagine.Nov 03 19:12
schestowitzAny URL about the freeze?Nov 03 19:13
schestowitzOther than mine...?Nov 03 19:13
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twitterdon't think soNov 03 19:13
twitter 03 19:15
twitterBank spending is a big hit for M$.Nov 03 19:15
twitter  AustraliaNov 03 19:17
schestowitzHere's another sellout group on the freeze/'slow'down:  Forrester CEO Weighs In on IT Spending for 2009 < >Nov 03 19:17
schestowitzMicrosoft paid Forrester for biased anti-Linux 'studies'Nov 03 19:17
schestowitzAnalysts must be like acadeics to be respected.Nov 03 19:17
schestowitzAlthough acdemia too is being corrupted by sponsorsips, Microsoft's included.Nov 03 19:17
schestowitzI have some refs. Hold on.Nov 03 19:18
twitterSaw that too.  Did not think it was worth reading.Nov 03 19:18
schestowitzMicrosoft's Market Cap Falls $24B in 17 Days : 03 19:18
schestowitzMicrosoft calls on Congress to reconsider bailout : 03 19:18
schestowitzMicrosoft, Cisco to lose $4.3 Billion as investment banks cut cost : 03 19:19
schestowitzMicrosoft will be hurt by financial crisis, RBC analyst says : 03 19:19
schestowitzOops. That's 03 19:19
twitter" the IT depression that raged--or more precisely did not rage--from 2001 through 2003." The minor depression also known as XP.Nov 03 19:19
schestowitzMicrosoft sees slide in profits : 03 19:20
schestowitzRed Hat: Crisis to boost open source: 03 19:20
schestowitzNo Recession at Red Hat : 03 19:20
twitter" RBC's current price target for Microsoft is US$30 per share." LOLNov 03 19:27
schestowitzGerman Foreign Ministry starts open source blitzkreig < >Nov 03 19:31
schestowitztwitter: it's an old article.Nov 03 19:31
trmanco 03 19:33
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twitteranother M$ friendly source on down IT spending 03 19:38
twitter"  Market research firm Input, which specializes in federal spending, predicts the federal government’s spending on IT will increase at a modest 4 percent compound annual growth rate between now and 2013, from about $72 billion to $88 billion. That would be a historical low, when compared with the average 7 percent growth rate of the past two decades. At the local government level, the picture is even more dire."Nov 03 19:40
schestowitztwitter: another one for failurelog. Just for this mail: "Hi, Roy, There's always Firefox and Opera for those interested in either improved security, standards support or ease of use.  Javascript is there for Web 2.0 apps. Chalk up one more for the Vista Failure Blog:"Nov 03 19:57
schestowitz"the newer operating system continues to be threatenedby Microsoft Corp.'s own ActiveX browser plug-in technology, according to a report issued Monday by the company." Of course to get rid of MSIE or ActiveX, you can only do that by ditching Windows.  Ubuntu makes that easy even for those that didn't get a system pre-installed by the OEM."Nov 03 19:58
trmanco 03 20:02
MinceRlulzNov 03 20:05
twitter:)Nov 03 20:08
trmanco 03 20:08
trmanco485 MB of ram is not bad for an optimized version of Windummy 7Nov 03 20:09
twitterWhen did XP market share finally equal 98's?Nov 03 20:11
schestowitztrmanco: I always try not top confuse Brett with Brad... 03 20:11
schestowitzMinceR: it's just some troll.Nov 03 20:11
schestowitzSJVN used to challenge himNov 03 20:12
trmancoschestowitz, :-PNov 03 20:12
schestowitzBut sometimes he says OK things about OOoNov 03 20:12
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twitterAn old story but a good one.  The failure of DSG.  M$'s retail chain is almost completely destroyed now.  CompUSA is gone and Circuit City is failing today.Nov 03 20:32
twitterDSG had the balls to blame Vista for their trouble.Nov 03 20:32
twitterThe CEO was soon replaced by someone who said nice things about the soft.Nov 03 20:33
schestowitztwitter: I remember DSGNov 03 20:34
schestowitzThey got ChannelStuffed(TM)!Nov 03 20:34
schestowitz 03 20:35
schestowitzAny evidence that his remarks and not the failure was the cause for sacking/departure?Nov 03 20:35
twitterNo, I just remember it happening and the M$ damage control kick in.Nov 03 20:37
schestowitzClassic one: Acer: PC industry 'disappointed' with Vista < > Nov 03 20:37
schestowitzOops. he spoke on behalf of other OEMs he spoke to. Big bit FAILURE.Nov 03 20:38
schestowitzI wrote a single sentence and he treated it like an "attack", to quite Bruce Byfield.Nov 03 20:47
schestowitz*quote. Now he's exceptionally sensitive: "Yes. Microsoft is a RedMonk customer, as are other vendors with cloud ambitions or offerings such as Cloudera, Dell, EnterpriseDB, IBM, Red Hat, Sun, and so on. The full list of RedMonk clients is available here."Nov 03 20:47
schestowitzMicrosoft says it makes them "prickly to work with." From < >:  “[T]hey are very concerned that they never look like they are selling out, so that makes them very prickly to work with.”Nov 03 20:48
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, In about five (5) minutes two of our client servers will be going down for maintenance, the downtime window is set to one hour, but in reality it should be significantly less. Affected users ~1200. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!Nov 03 20:50
schestowitzSimon Phipps: "Masterfully understated (and no mention of the potential to move to a competing cloud). Let’s face it, Azure is designed for eternal lock-in; the Freedom to Leave wasn’t even in the rushes, let alone left on the cutting room floor."Nov 03 20:50
schestowitzThe word cloud is bad because it's too soothing. Like Silver-light... all about lock-in and darkness.Nov 03 20:54
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, the upgrades went fine, both servers are now back in rotation -- it went a lot quicker than expected, you'd never guess we run gentoo! Apologies for the inconvenience caused and have a nice day!Nov 03 21:04
schestowitzzoobab: anything new in the Nikon press release about Microsoft cross-licensing? Why is it brought back again?Nov 03 21:09
trmanco 03 21:45
twitterWould you do better with regular scsi?  I have gotten close to 80MB/s using old 160MB/s drives and an Adaptec card doing rsync copies from drive to drive.Nov 03 22:03
*schestowitz can't believe it might take 1 week to rip a single CD on a multi-core machine. The CD is so badly scratched... *gaspNov 03 22:05
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twittergood luck with the CD.  going outside for a whileNov 03 22:12
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