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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 22nd, 2008

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schestowitzNovell incompetence (new): http://uk.youtube.com/wa...Dec 22 00:22
neighborleeschestowitz, the sun and # of patents thing really hit a nerve :)Dec 22 00:27
schestowitz"Roy, people said the same thing about IBM a couple decades ago. It's important for us as a community to give the black sheep of the family a chance to reform. If they fail to change, no harm done, things just continue as they have. If they succeed in changing, they could do a world of good." < http://ostatic.com/blog/will-open... >Dec 22 00:27
schestowitzneighborlee: /whose/ nerve?Dec 22 00:27
neighborleeRoy: irrelevant. Stop trying to change the subject.Dec 22 00:27
neighborleehttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/20... <hereDec 22 00:28
neighborleewhen will these guys get it..it doesn't matter if any attacks have been staged, it violates the gpl obviously but of course if they focus on that they immedately lose the debate..we would be in error to let them change that topic, speaking of changing things :)Dec 22 00:30
schestowitzWho is "MonkeeSage"? Is it a Mono persona?Dec 22 00:30
neighborleeI was kinda wondering myselfDec 22 00:30
schestowitzxxx.satx.res.rr.comDec 22 00:31
schestowitzNever seen that one before.Dec 22 00:31
schestowitzReminds of those monkey's in Jo's Web site.Dec 22 00:32
schestowitz*oops. MonkeysDec 22 00:32
neighborleeyup there is thatDec 22 00:32
schestowitzI noticed your comment in Alan's blog earlier (I'm subscribed to that). Anyone who opposes Microsoft's .NET (oops... Mono) is not a rabid zealot and should be gaged.Dec 22 00:37
schestowitz*gaggedDec 22 00:37
neighborleehehDec 22 00:41
schestowitzThe Mono ilk is flooding the site today. I spent too much time with like 200 comments.Dec 22 00:41
schestowitzIt's like they sit there all evening, hitting F5 and waiting for the next chance to call me "an idiot" or something.Dec 22 00:42
neighborleewowDec 22 00:45
neighborleethats alot of typing ;)Dec 22 00:45
neighborleebut hey, the war rages on :)Dec 22 00:45
neighborleeI wish konversation worked in windows..its much better I think than xchat,,Dec 22 00:50
schestowitzI've only ever used mirc (when I was 14) and Xchat (that would be more recently).Dec 22 00:53
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mib_3wwnu3holaDec 22 00:54
neighborleehi thereDec 22 00:58
schestowitzhttp://blog.flameeyes.eu/2008/12/20/w... "Patrick’s method is not going to hit problems like dev-scheme/chicken breaking most of the Mono packages (that would pick up /usr/bin/csc as the C# compiler rather than mcsc), or collisions between unrelated packages."Dec 22 00:58
schestowitzHey, mix*Dec 22 00:58
mib_3wwnu3on the comments how to I "quote" someone? what are the tags?Dec 22 00:59
mib_3wwnu3comments on the main boycott novell siteDec 22 00:59
schestowitz<blockquote>Dec 22 01:03
schestowitz<blockquote>test</blockquote>Dec 22 01:03
mib_3wwnu3ha thanks muchDec 22 01:03
mib_3wwnu3back in to the fray then :)Dec 22 01:03
schestowitzIf you botch it, tell me and I'll editDec 22 01:03
schestowitzThanks.Dec 22 01:03
MinceRgnDec 22 01:07
schestowitzHeh. http://loupgaroublond.blogspot.com/2008/1...Dec 22 01:08
schestowitzMinceR should read it.Dec 22 01:08
*MinceR will.Dec 22 01:09
mib_3wwnu3did anyone read the "11 ways to create a successful linux distro" article?Dec 22 01:31
schestowitzI have, why?Dec 22 01:33
schestowitzI will post it tomorrow morning among the linksDec 22 01:33
mib_3wwnu3ah no biggie, just check out #4 on thier list. the idea of a "mono distro" is funny.Dec 22 01:33
mib_3wwnu3i mean don't most distros already include that stuffDec 22 01:34
mib_3wwnu3that seems to me to be part of the problem, not a "feature"Dec 22 01:34
mib_3wwnu3i some distro out there including really old versions of mono and no mono apps or something?Dec 22 01:35
schestowitzhttp://www.techradar.com/news/software/operatin...Dec 22 01:35
schestowitzThe Mono boosters who comment in BN try to push them all to 2.0.Dec 22 01:36
mib_3wwnu3ah. i see. but are some distros saying they won't go to 2.0? like they are only comfortable with the old versions?Dec 22 01:36
mib_3wwnu3i haven't heard thatDec 22 01:36
mib_3wwnu3most are all in or all out, right?Dec 22 01:36
mib_3wwnu3not saying they already have 2.0, but they aren't saying they will not updateDec 22 01:37
schestowitzI don't see why.Dec 22 01:38
schestowitzThey are still lobbied by the Mono guards and Novell employees.Dec 22 01:38
schestowitz"Here, have a bug.. eat it"Dec 22 01:39
mib_3wwnu3exactly so. Mono-boosters make even more noise about upgrading thier packagesDec 22 01:39
mib_3wwnu3it's an attempt to create an aura of importance or relevance for mono that other packages don't receiveDec 22 01:39
schestowitzIt makes the dependency greaterDec 22 01:39
mib_3wwnu3correct - like "if your distro doesn't have MONO 2.0 then it is old and pokey" or somethingDec 22 01:40
schestowitzIt also introduces more stuff that's outside the 'standardizes' C#Dec 22 01:40
schestowitz*zedDec 22 01:40
schestowitzThe issue is this.Dec 22 01:40
mib_3wwnu3oh no no no, they said mono was only the language and CLI because that's what ECMA coversDec 22 01:40
schestowitzMono 2.0 is manufactured mostly by Novell/MicrosoftDec 22 01:41
mib_3wwnu3they can't be moving the goalpostsDec 22 01:41
schestowitzThis 'factory' includes 'Microsoft people' too, so it can pass (feed) the distros anything.Dec 22 01:41
schestowitzPeople warned about it in 2006, shortly after the dead had been signed.Dec 22 01:41
schestowitzMicrosoft has a sort of committal access.Dec 22 01:41
schestowitzGoalposts already move. They 'forgot' about the Winforms issue by now.Dec 22 01:42
mib_3wwnu3so true and so sad all the same timeDec 22 01:42
mib_3wwnu3that's what people don't like to see - Novell/MS aren't going to stay within a little boxDec 22 01:43
mib_3wwnu3they are going to continually and incrementally spreadDec 22 01:43
mib_3wwnu3that's what companies doDec 22 01:43
schestowitzLEt me see if I can find somethingDec 22 01:43
mib_3wwnu3if you don't continually examine and address thier actions, you are missing the pointDec 22 01:44
schestowitzBack in 2007 I found a nice expression in the AUBuilder/ZDNet networkDec 22 01:44
mib_3wwnu3you can't say "oh this is an old debate or old news", because it is an ongoing processDec 22 01:44
schestowitzSomething about Microsoft sending Novell tot eh GPL parking lot every time it needs a gig done (e.g. OOXML translators to claim OOXML support from FOSS)Dec 22 01:44
schestowitz"[The partnership with Microsoft is] going very well insofar as we originally agreed to co-operate on three distinct projects and now we’re working on nine projects and there’s a good list of 19 other projects that we plan to co-operate on." -- Ron Hovsepian, Novell CEO (2008)Dec 22 01:45
schestowitz"Our partnership with Microsoft continues to expand." -- Ron Hovsepian, Novell CEO (2008)Dec 22 01:45
mib_3wwnu3But I was told Novell was a "fierce competitor" of Microsoft?Dec 22 01:46
mib_3wwnu3It says so right in the OpenSUSE FAQ.Dec 22 01:46
schestowitzThey're a young couple romancing. Won't be long before they get marries and have little monos.Dec 22 01:46
schestowitzNovell is the wife.. it like Big Mike's wallet...without it, it would fall apart.Dec 22 01:47
schestowitz*LOL* fierce competitor...Dec 22 01:47
schestowitzWatch Novell's site. They market Windows... Oh! and Migrations from UNIX!!Dec 22 01:47
mib_3wwnu3I know. I can't believe someone actually typed "fierce competitor" with a straight faceDec 22 01:48
schestowitzThe pages about Windows being bad were torn down months after the deal.Dec 22 01:48
schestowitzmib_3wwnu3: back then (FAQ) they probably meant it.Dec 22 01:48
schestowitzResistors like Ted Haeger and Jeremy Allison leftDec 22 01:49
mib_3wwnu3hmm... probably *wished* it - the FAQ is in defense of the Novell/MS deal, and they are trying to argue that despite the deal, Novell is still a "fierce competitor"Dec 22 01:49
mib_3wwnu3"There is no general strategic alliance. Novell continue to be fierce competitors of Microsoft, which should be evident by the openSUSE and SUSE Linux Enterprise products."Dec 22 01:50
schestowitzOh, I thought you mean the OpenSUSE FAQ.Dec 22 01:50
mib_3wwnu3no no i do...that is the opensuse faq right thereDec 22 01:50
mib_3wwnu3check out the first pointDec 22 01:50
mib_3wwnu3http://en.opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MSDec 22 01:51
schestowitzThey love pointing at these. "I don't have a good answers, but *these* guys have something to say^H^H^Hspin"Dec 22 01:51
mib_3wwnu3they are talking out both sides of the mouth in that OpenSUSE FAQDec 22 01:51
schestowitzI haven't seen it in yearsDec 22 01:51
schestowitzIt's out of dateDec 22 01:51
mib_3wwnu3ah, someone i know just blogged on itDec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3so it's fresh in my mindDec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3:)Dec 22 01:52
schestowitzThe OpenSUSE FAQ?Dec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3yeahDec 22 01:52
schestowitzThe Me and Ubuntu guy?Dec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3yeahDec 22 01:52
schestowitzHow do you know him/her?Dec 22 01:52
mib_3wwnu3he is me :)Dec 22 01:53
schestowitzAh..Dec 22 01:53
schestowitzIt came just before the 11.1 release.Dec 22 01:53
mib_3wwnu3yeah, maybe it caught a little attention due to the timing - that's what lead me to read the thing in the first placeDec 22 01:54
schestowitzDid they link to it?Dec 22 01:55
schestowitzThey have 'sleeve ref' (off the sleeve)Dec 22 01:56
mib_3wwnu3i don't know what that isDec 22 01:56
schestowitzJust something they pull out of their ars^Hleeve whenever they don't have an answer.Dec 22 01:57
schestowitzLike Mono FAQDec 22 01:57
mib_3wwnu3ah right that is my main problem with the FAQsDec 22 01:58
mib_3wwnu3so many people point to them like they are some authoratitive answerDec 22 01:58
mib_3wwnu3and they are no such thing, just something some dude wrote, and usually poorly referenced and arguedDec 22 01:59
mib_3wwnu3pet peeve of mineDec 22 01:59
schestowitzit's a pattern. Like a song they latch onto. The good 'boosters' actually sing original 'renditions'Dec 22 01:59
mib_3wwnu3it makes thinking easyDec 22 01:59
mib_3wwnu3or not-thinkingDec 22 01:59
schestowitzFAQ = "what *he* said"Dec 22 01:59
schestowitz'twas the same story with GPLv3. Some kernel hackers (most of them?) never read the thing but they said "no" cause Linus did. So you have some independent thinkers ushered by a flock who take it all at face value.Dec 22 02:00
mib_3wwnu3groupthink is always dangerousDec 22 02:01
schestowitzIt's military mentality. ,They take orders. It's dangerous.Dec 22 02:01
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mib_3wwnu3it strikes me as ironic in that I try really hard to read the references and analyze them, but I am the one accused of "zealotry"Dec 22 02:02
mib_3wwnu3*maybe* I am wrong, but it's not because I'm saying something I haven't thought aboutDec 22 02:03
mib_3wwnu3I'm not just repeating the "party line"Dec 22 02:03
mib_3wwnu3that's another pet peeve therDec 22 02:03
mib_3wwnu3thereDec 22 02:03
schestowitz"zealot"?Dec 22 02:04
schestowitzThat's what Microsoft hypocritically labels opposition.Dec 22 02:04
mib_3wwnu3exactly, it's an attack on the person, rather than the argumentDec 22 02:04
schestowitzGovernment use words like dissident or terrorist. In China, they send people (forcibly) to mental clinics for it.Dec 22 02:05
schestowitzgnDec 22 02:15
mib_3wwnu3nnDec 22 02:17
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tessierhttp://minimsft.blogspot.com/2008/12/rumors-of-up...Dec 22 07:29
tessierYou guys seen this already?Dec 22 07:29
schestowitzHey, tessier wbDec 22 08:28
schestowitzMicrosoft layoffs began a while ago.Dec 22 08:29
kentmaHuman misery... Recession will bring much more of this.Dec 22 08:41
schestowitzNext year it'll peak, based on what I read.Dec 22 08:41
kentmaMy economist friend is of the same opinionDec 22 08:42
schestowitzHow warm is it in Canada? Are you out on the beach having a Piña colada? ;-)Dec 22 08:42
kentmaHehe -snowmen and igloos atm.Dec 22 08:43
kentmaI like going to north  america, it makes me realise hoow good uk's ttemperate weather is :-)Dec 22 08:44
kentmaA pplane slipped off a runway in denver yesterday...Dec 22 08:44
kentmaSorry about spellings, on n800Dec 22 08:46
kentmaOh - bought acer aspire 1 yesterday - everone loves itDec 22 08:46
kentmaEveryoneDec 22 08:46
schestowitzWas the crew and passengers safe?Dec 22 08:47
schestowitz*WereDec 22 08:47
kentmaSeveral injuries, but thankfully none deadDec 22 08:47
kentmaIce on runwayDec 22 08:47
kentmaThe fantasy of losing worst 10% merely results in an enronDec 22 08:53
schestowitzDo you know abiut MS?Dec 22 08:55
kentmaWhat about ms?Dec 22 08:58
schestowitzhttp://www.billparish.com/msftfrau... "Many believe that the stock market crash of 1929 caused the Great Depression yet history clearly shows that it was instead simply bad government policy that was manipulated by leaders such as Insull. Today many now fear a similar stock market crash but in reality the economy is very strong and, if we can reform this pyramid at Microsoft, the overall market should not need to correct moDec 22 08:59
schestowitzre than 20 percent."Dec 22 08:59
schestowitz“Microsoft’s perspective is best reflected by Bob Herbold, Chief Operating Officer, to whom the CFO reports. Bob very sincerely replied, “Bill, everyone is doing it.” My response was that Microsoft is a leader and that others are now seeking to emulate these fraudulent practices they have legitimized. "Dec 22 08:59
schestowitzWho will be the next Maduffocker?Dec 22 08:59
kentmaGood question... The corruption in the us economy has been clear for years.Dec 22 09:00
schestowitzIt was a normDec 22 09:02
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trmancoMAFIA            ADec 22 10:19
schestowitzGrade-A mafiaDec 22 10:24
trmancoindeedDec 22 10:25
trmancohttp://brandybuck.site40....Dec 22 10:33
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schestowitzFamous photoDec 22 10:42
trmancoand a funny one tooDec 22 10:51
schestowitzIt's a Microsoft leakDec 22 10:51
trmancoLOLDec 22 10:51
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trmancohttp://www.markshuttleworth.com/wp-content/uplo...Dec 22 11:20
trmancohttp://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/253Dec 22 11:21
schestowitzFlash?Dec 22 11:21
schestowitzEek.Dec 22 11:21
schestowitzThey should copyleft it rather than take pride in copyrightsDec 22 11:22
trmancoLive Search Continues to Lose Ground to Google: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Live-Searc...Dec 22 11:26
schestowitzYes, thanks.Dec 22 11:31
schestowitzI'll just do many MS links. I'm tiredDec 22 11:31
trmancoVulnerabilities in several virus scanners: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/...Dec 22 11:33
trmancohere is another oneDec 22 11:33
trmanco"I'm Linux" Video Contest Will Probably Be a Forking Mess: http://gizmodo.com/5115140/im-linux-video-c...Dec 22 11:40
trmancoforking mess, c'mon :|Dec 22 11:40
schestowitzHehe.Dec 22 12:03
trmancoI have an ideaDec 22 12:26
trmancosee this >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6404294&...Dec 22 12:28
trmancoI'll post this kind of stuff on COLA like Homer is doing :-PDec 22 12:29
schestowitzAs in...? Microsoft idea's are "people grouping in a comfy office coordinating the crashing of PS3 launch parties" :-)Dec 22 12:29
schestowitz*ideas.Dec 22 12:29
*schestowitz looksDec 22 12:29
trmancowhat do you think?Dec 22 12:29
MinceRhayDec 22 12:30
schestowitztrmanco: go with it.Dec 22 12:30
trmanco:DDec 22 12:30
trmancothis one was just sentDec 22 12:35
*trmanco find some moreDec 22 12:35
*trmanco finds some moreDec 22 12:35
trmancoschestowitz, you are doing good work >> http://forums.fedoraforum.org/show...Dec 22 12:52
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schestowitzI never saw that before, so thanks.Dec 22 12:56
trmancoI'm looking for some Fedora testimonialsDec 22 12:57
trmancoI found this so farDec 22 12:57
trmancohttp://forums.fedoraforum.org/showp...Dec 22 12:57
trmanco:( php 2 doesn't have the single post thingyDec 22 13:09
trmancophpbb*Dec 22 13:09
trmancoLOOLDec 22 13:13
trmancoschestowitz, look -> http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy...Dec 22 13:13
trmanco:-pDec 22 13:13
schestowitzI never saw that.Dec 22 13:19
schestowitzI concentrate so much on advocating that i don't often see the response (other than in USENET, bar the killfile)Dec 22 13:19
trmancoyou are everywhere :-PDec 22 13:21
trmancowhat the heck? -> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.li...Dec 22 13:22
schestowitzI've just got another request to start censoring BNDec 22 13:30
schestowitzYesterday was too much for some readers (over 200 comments, mostly from anti-BN crowd)Dec 22 13:30
trmancocensoring?Dec 22 13:30
trmancorequested from who?Dec 22 13:30
schestowitzModeratingDec 22 13:31
schestowitztrmanco: one regular reader. I might write about it laterDec 22 13:31
trmancookDec 22 13:31
schestowitzHe's not the firstDec 22 13:31
schestowitzSome people think that heckling ruins the siteDec 22 13:31
schestowitzYou can't even discuss things with Asay or O'Reilly without a bunch of monsters like G Michaels throwing dirty diapers everywhere.Dec 22 13:32
trmancololDec 22 13:32
trmancoI laughed -> "dirty diapers"Dec 22 13:32
schestowitzSome think the hecklers coordinate this, but I think it's only true to a limited extent (some  few ones know others from other activities).Dec 22 13:33
trmancohttp://bash.org/?152037Dec 22 13:59
trmancohttp://lwn.net/Articles/292995/Dec 22 14:02
schestowitzInteresting comment from Sam: http://tuxdeluxe.org/node/288 "1. Though Novell bought Ximian in August 2003 and SuSE three months, it is unlikely that it would not have decided on the SuSE purchase before buying Ximian. Which company would buy an outfit selling a commercial Linux desktop without having a Linux distribution among its products in order to sell that desktop?"Dec 22 14:30
schestowitzThe Gralla MShill is attacking Linux again.Dec 22 14:32
schestowitzMust be a pre-xmas attack before those January layoffs at Microsoft people talk about.Dec 22 14:33
schestowitzTech Centers Go Green Despite Cuts < http://www.pcworld.com/article/155857/... >; meanwhile they do lots more damage elsewhere.Dec 22 14:37
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schestowitzhttp://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-de... " Bush and his men must be held accountable for their crimes in Haiti. One point in the article requires correction: it assumes that Dubya was elected president. There is plenty of evidence that he stole both elections."Dec 22 14:39
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schestowitzI'm trying to find more MS intersections here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jac... (bg in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff )Dec 22 14:56
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schestowitzEgypt offline for weekend after Med seabed cables cut < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12... >Dec 22 15:24
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schestowitz*LOL* http://www.allhatnocattle.net/1-24-06_ab...Dec 22 16:35
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_Gates_&_Ell...Dec 22 16:35
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schestowitzzoobab: http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ "(December 20, 2008) RealVideo 3.0 decoder added. Still working the bugs out, please test and report any problems."Dec 22 18:14
schestowitzHow Microsoft is associated with the Seattle-based lobby/law firm Preston Gates & Ellis (Bill Gates' father), which employed the infamously-criminal Jack Abramoff: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/22/microsoft-g...Dec 22 18:16
_dougwhat did billg ever do to you :)Dec 22 18:18
schestowitzNothing. It's not about him.Dec 22 18:18
schestowitzIt's about a political muscle that involves some wealthy 'elites'Dec 22 18:19
_doug"CompTIA further contends that the serious and irreparable damage"Dec 22 18:20
_doughttp://www.stern.nyu.edu/networks/Microsoft_...Dec 22 18:20
_doughow much damage did these micro-type practices do to the industry ?Dec 22 18:20
schestowitz2004?Dec 22 18:20
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_dougNot to mention BSA ..Dec 22 18:21
schestowitz"Association Inc. (‘CompTIA’) requested leave to intervene in support of the form of order sought by Microsoft in the interim relief proceedings."Dec 22 18:21
schestowitzAll the shills..Dec 22 18:22
schestowitzACT too..Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz158 Third, and last, Microsoft states that since the adoption of the Decision Sun Microsystems has reachedDec 22 18:22
schestowitzan agreement with Microsoft which addresses all the concerns underlying its complaint to theDec 22 18:22
schestowitzCommission. There is therefore no immediate need to implement the Decision while the main action isDec 22 18:22
schestowitzpending.Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz159 ACT claims that unless the remedy is suspended it will produce serious and irreparable effects owing toDec 22 18:22
schestowitzthe damage to the strength and value of its members’ intellectual property rights in the EEA.Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz160 More specifically, ACT maintains, first, that the immediate applicability of the remedy would constitute aDec 22 18:22
schestowitzgroundbreaking precedent in the compulsory licensing of intellectual property rights which wouldDec 22 18:22
schestowitzquickly and substantially reduce the value of the intellectual property rights owned by its members. InDec 22 18:22
schestowitzthat regard, ACT claims that the Commission has interpreted and applied Article 82 EC in a way that isDec 22 18:22
schestowitzinconsistent with the Community’s obligations under Articles 13, 31 and 39 of the TRIPS Agreement.Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz161 ACT maintains, second, that disclosure of the communications protocols which have thus far been theDec 22 18:22
schestowitzexclusive property of Microsoft would result in the instability of Windows Client PC and server operatingDec 22 18:22
schestowitzsystems, which would immediately cause significant harm for its members.Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz162 CompTIA submits that, in so far as it requires Microsoft to supply its intellectual property to anyDec 22 18:22
schestowitzundertaking present on the servers market, the remedy provided for in Article 5 of the Decision willDec 22 18:22
schestowitzreduce the level of protection for the entire information technology and communications industry, giveDec 22 18:22
schestowitzrise to legal uncertainty and have the immediate effect of reducing investment in the technology sectorDec 22 18:22
schestowitzand therefore the general level of economic activity.Dec 22 18:22
schestowitz163 CompTIA further contends that the serious and irreparable damage which that remedy will cause to theDec 22 18:22
schestowitzentire sector, and also to the members of CompTIA, exceeds any possible adverse effect which the lackDec 22 18:22
schestowitzof immediate disclosure could have on the public interest or the inDec 22 18:22
_doughttp://blog.wired.com/business/2008/10...Dec 22 18:23
schestowitz"336 CompTIA and Exor support Microsoft’s position as regards a prima facie case. They contend that Microsoft has demonstrated that Articles 4 and 6(a) of the Decision are prima facie unlawful."Dec 22 18:24
schestowitzpp 47: "Furthermore, Microsoft, supported more broadly on that point by CompTIA, ACT.."Dec 22 18:25
_doughttp://techdailydose.nationaljournal.com/...Dec 22 18:25
_douga balanced playing field where the ref plays for the red team ..Dec 22 18:26
_doughttp://www.opensecrets.org/revolving...Dec 22 18:27
schestowitz"Microsoft and Abramoff vs. Novell Inc." < http://www.enterinside.com/b... >Dec 22 18:28
schestowitzWhat's here? -> http://www.opensecrets.org/revolving/...Dec 22 18:28
schestowitzOh, I see..Dec 22 18:29
schestowitzWow. This happened less than a week agoDec 22 18:29
_doughttp://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/client...Dec 22 18:29
schestowitzMicrosoft and Abramoff vs. Novell Inc. "This page has been deleted. The deletion log for the page is provided below for reference." < http://www.enterinside.com/bro... >Dec 22 18:31
schestowitzMaybe they should lobby for Lobby Visas... you know, to hire 'more qualified'  lobbyists from other countries... it's cheaperDec 22 18:33
_dougwe must have more H1-B1 lobbiest visasDec 22 18:35
schestowitzH1-B1>>Dec 22 18:36
schestowitzI came across the same BS: "This is perhaps the most annoying thing about Open Office.org. Why do I need Java Runtime for OpenOffice to export a document into HTML format. Duh!" < http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2008/12/open-... >Dec 22 18:41
_dougFree sued over open source softwareDec 22 18:43
_doughttp://www.telecompaper.com/news/article....Dec 22 18:43
schestowitzWe got some traffic from this page today (like 1%): http://www.cio.com/article/print/472116Dec 22 18:46
schestowitz_doug: needs subs. Should it say "cisco"?Dec 22 18:47
_doug?Dec 22 18:47
schestowitzActually, that's not possible given the date. What's this article about?Dec 22 18:47
schestowitzBusiness collapsed and folding so soon? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/... (Sky 'withdraws' from Tiscali buyout talks)Dec 22 18:48
_dougsubscription only, why not contact them and ask ..Dec 22 18:48
*anivar has quit ("Ex-Chat")Dec 22 18:49
_doug"French ISP Free has been sued in a Paris court by open software developers Harald Welte, Rob Landley and Erik Andersen for failing to respect the general .."Dec 22 18:50
schestowitzFreedom Squad :-pDec 22 18:51
schestowitzSuing for Freedom(R)Dec 22 18:52
trmancoTrolls gone mad !Dec 22 18:52
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")Dec 22 18:53
trmancothis would make a nice movie titleDec 22 18:53
schestowitzDid you see the new GL post? SCO acquires PJ from IBM. ;-)Dec 22 18:53
*PetoKraus (n=pk@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovellDec 22 18:54
_dougOn, it turned out that PJ was a time traveling space alien android from the future, with amnesia ..Dec 22 18:54
schestowitzThis could take a while... :-) ->> http://www.pcworld.com/article/155872/undersea_ro...Dec 22 18:54
_dougThat French ISP, story isn't verified on their blogs ..Dec 22 18:55
schestowitzIt's from Novermber.Dec 22 18:55
_doughow about burying them ..Dec 22 18:55
schestowitzI didn't see it anywhere but this subs-only thing.Dec 22 18:55
schestowitzBurying who?Dec 22 18:55
_dougand not using drag nets ...Dec 22 18:55
schestowitzThe haatchets?Dec 22 18:55
_dougburying the cables under the seabed ..Dec 22 18:56
schestowitzThe cable..Dec 22 18:56
schestowitzI see... I don't know why. There must be reasons.Dec 22 18:56
schestowitzIn times of war these can be cutDec 22 18:56
schestowitzBut there has been no major war since modern telecom (bar telegraph and all)Dec 22 18:56
schestowitzAnother thing that will be used immediately is an army of crackers that DDOS DNS and any machine at service. China is well prepared for it; the US... not so much, but they have lots of back doors in China.Dec 22 18:57
_dougit's cheaper to just lay them on the surface ..Dec 22 18:58
_doughttp://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/log...Dec 22 18:58
schestowitznations are being very stupid. It's like China leases all its telephone lines to the NSA/CIA/FBI/whatever.Dec 22 18:58
_dougwell, it's only fair when both sides read each others mail :]Dec 22 18:59
schestowitz"Cable burial by plowing, using large sled-type cable plows towed by large powerful cable ships is the standard and most widely used commercial method of protecting submarine telephone cables from fishing activity, large ship anchors and other ocean hazards. "Dec 22 18:59
schestowitzWould they keep routes of the cable secret? Like the "Enigma"? ;-)Dec 22 19:00
_dougmust cost a lot, especially to repair ..Dec 22 19:00
schestowitzOr will Turning scuba-dive with a pair of scissors? Dec 22 19:00
schestowitz*TuringDec 22 19:00
_dougcan't keep them a secret ..Dec 22 19:00
_dougWhat would be usefull is a large wheeled sub, that dug the trench and laid the cable at the same time ..Dec 22 19:01
_dougelectronic couch potato patented ..Dec 22 19:02
_doughttp://www.telecommagazine.com/newsglobe...Dec 22 19:02
schestowitzWinning bid: http://coppola.rsmart.com/files...Dec 22 19:04
_dougPatent and open source software are fundamentally incompatible ..Dec 22 19:05
_doughttp://www.iusmentis.com/computerprogr...Dec 22 19:05
schestowitzPatents are hence anti-FOSS law/mechanism (swpats)Dec 22 19:06
_dougOpen source isn't free software ..Dec 22 19:07
schestowitzCan JackA legalise them in the EU when he's out of jail?Dec 22 19:07
_doughttp://www.cio.com.au/article/27...Dec 22 19:07
_dougBill Hilf: Door open to open-source pacts ..Dec 22 19:08
_doughttp://www.cio.com.au/inde...Dec 22 19:08
_doug2006 .. sorry ...Dec 22 19:08
schestowitzThis is funnyDec 22 19:08
schestowitzIDG/Google had a hiccup, so it burped out a story from 2007.Dec 22 19:09
schestowitzNick Farrell thought it was new and wrote about this old news as though it is news: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...Dec 22 19:09
_doughttp://www.contractoruk.com/news/004117.htmlDec 22 19:10
schestowitzBill Hilf quite his role... probably drinking the shame and guilt away... it's not easy being a thug.Dec 22 19:10
_dougis 'KAren' for real ,, why not contact the school and get a confirmation ...Dec 22 19:10
schestowitzProbably.Dec 22 19:10
schestowitz'Dec 22 19:11
schestowitzWhatever it was Karen smoked in college, it seems to have given her a rose-tinted view of the world of commercial software, writing: “I am sure if you contacted Microsoft, they would be more than happy to supply you with copies of an older verison[sic] of Windows and that way, your computers would actually be of service to those receiving them."'Dec 22 19:11
schestowitz"...smoked in college..  rose-tinted" Nice people.Dec 22 19:12
schestowitzM-m-m-m-m-m-merry Xmas...  clear your desk by the end of the day.  WD lops off 2,500 jobs and one fab < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/101/... > WHY do they wait until now?Dec 22 19:13
schestowitzNext month they say will be a bloodbath (deferred announcements)... Microsoft too likely to announce some 'cost-cutting'......Dec 22 19:13
*kentma has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Dec 22 19:15
_dougMS fast false-facts article ..Dec 22 19:16
_doug"With the Linux-based platform we would have a system crash at least once a week. Migrating to a Microsoft-based system has virtually eliminated server crashes and we have vendor support."Dec 22 19:16
_doug- Ed Castillo, Information Technology Team Lead, Capital EngineeringDec 22 19:16
_doughttp://www.microsoft.com/canada/get...Dec 22 19:17
_dougI don't know what Ed makes, but I do know I don't want any .. :]Dec 22 19:17
schestowitzMaybe he used corssover before. :-)Dec 22 19:18
schestowitz"With the Linux-based platform we would have a system crash at least once a week" use the keyboard, not the sledgehammer, Ed.Dec 22 19:18
_dougyea, like our friend trying to run AD under wine .. :)Dec 22 19:18
schestowitzWhich 'friend'?Dec 22 19:19
schestowitzWheres me start thinigi? Dec 22 19:19
_dougcouldn't get Actocad to run on Linux ?Dec 22 19:20
_doughttp://www.capitaleng.ca/Dec 22 19:20
_doug"Performance Grade Asphalt Tank Storage Facility"Dec 22 19:20
_doug:]Dec 22 19:20
_doug"Nonfemet ZPL Zinc Smelter"Dec 22 19:21
_dougAutocad ..Dec 22 19:21
schestowitzPola-bye: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new...Dec 22 19:21
_doughttp://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?s...Dec 22 19:22
trmancohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=... -> good to know from who I get my Wine fromDec 22 19:22
schestowitzWine-cracking.Dec 22 19:23
_doug"running qualified Linux operating systems"Dec 22 19:24
_doughttp://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?...Dec 22 19:24
_dougQualified Linux guests: RedHat, SuSE ...Dec 22 19:25
_dougCompetitive Selling: Win vs. LinuxDec 22 19:26
_doughttps://partner.microsoft.com/40029171Dec 22 19:26
trmancoMS addons for LinuxDec 22 19:26
trmancogive me a break :|Dec 22 19:26
schestowitzsudo apt-get install brealDec 22 19:27
trmancosudo apt-get install beer beer-lib cupDec 22 19:28
schestowitzchown trmanco break  beer beer-lib cup; sleep(0);Dec 22 19:28
trmancololDec 22 19:29
trmancoman chownDec 22 19:29
_dougNeuros ships $300.00 set-top box ..Dec 22 19:30
_doughttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS828...Dec 22 19:30
schestowitz"AMD SHAREHOLDERS learned late Friday that Lehman Brothers' September bankruptcy has forced the chipmaker to abandon a complicated long-term stock value protection deal." <  http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n...Dec 22 19:30
schestowitzman that is quite funnyDec 22 19:30
schestowitzNo manual entry for thatDec 22 19:30
schestowitzNo manual entry for isDec 22 19:30
schestowitzNo manual entry for quiteDec 22 19:30
schestowitzNo manual entry for funnyDec 22 19:30
trmanco:oDec 22 19:30
schestowitz_doug: it does YouTube too! :-DDec 22 19:30
trmancoNo manual entry for womanDec 22 19:31
schestowitz\0/buh-bye, ol' mediaDec 22 19:31
trmancooopsDec 22 19:31
schestowitzSo....... who do you reckon will be defrauded next?Dec 22 19:32
schestowitzPonzi down, Abramoff down, Madoff............. Gates??Dec 22 19:32
schestowitzCarlos Slim?Dec 22 19:32
schestowitzMSFT at $18:xx today.Dec 22 19:38
schestowitzNovell below $3.4Dec 22 19:38
schestowitzAlmost...Dec 22 19:38
trmanco3.4 :ODec 22 19:45
*trmanco checks microsoft's sharesDec 22 19:45
trmanco$19Dec 22 19:45
trmanco:ODec 22 19:46
trmancoboycottnovell in on google financeDec 22 19:46
trmancowhen you choose MSFTDec 22 19:46
trmancoahead of all the win blogs :-PDec 22 19:47
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")Dec 22 19:49
*PetoKraus (n=pk@host-77-247-224-25.isper.sk) has joined #boycottnovellDec 22 19:51
schestowitzThere's usually something about Novell too... scroll down to bottom: http://www.google.com/search?num=50...Dec 22 19:51
trmancoyeahDec 22 19:54
trmancohttp://www.xitimonitor.com/en-us/brows...Dec 22 19:59
schestowitzhttp://www.anonymousliberal.com/2008/12/tax...Dec 22 20:01
schestowitzSo he stole from the poor and gave to the rich? I'm not sure..Dec 22 20:01
schestowitztrmanco: it's better for Chrome to be ignored until it's /really/ FOSS.Dec 22 20:02
trmancook, then we better sit and waitDec 22 20:02
trmancoSearch Biz: MSFT Layoff Rumors, Google Chrome Complicates Mozilla Relationship & More: http://searchengineland.com/s...Dec 22 20:03
schestowitzHmmmmmmm... http://searchengineland.com/searc...Dec 22 20:14
schestowitzFirrefox handles it OK and Thunderbird suddenly hates it, saying it's not a valid feed.... Oh, never mind.Dec 22 20:15
trmanco:|Dec 22 20:15
schestowitzSometimes it takes time to realise some feed moves or brokeDec 22 20:15
trmancohttp://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/...Dec 22 20:16
trmancothat is a funny imageDec 22 20:16
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20081218... "The various banks on Wall Street have a bunch of problems that they're dealing with right now, including getting rid of toxic assets on their balance sheet, properly compensating staff who are expecting big bonuses even in such a down year and figuring out ways to motivate staff to invest in good assets, even in such tough times."Dec 22 20:32
trmancothe Mono team has some more work to do -> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Prolong-the-Life-of-...Dec 22 20:38
schestowitzThey can apply for a job at Microsoft.Dec 22 20:38
schestowitzhttp://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/12/rumor...Dec 22 20:44
*_doug has quit ()Dec 22 20:46
trmancoNix fixes dependency hell on all Linux distributions: http://www.linux.com/feature/155922Dec 22 20:48
trmancoon my 3 years of Linux I have never encountered a dependency hellDec 22 20:49
schestowitzI had that happen in SUSE 8.1Dec 22 20:51
trmancohow old is that?Dec 22 20:51
trmancooops http://tuxvermelho.blogspot.com/2008/1...Dec 22 20:53
schestowitzLike 5 years or moreDec 22 20:53
schestowitzlate 2003, I thinl.Dec 22 20:53
trmancolong timeDec 22 20:55
schestowitz2 drivers next to it? http://tuxvermelho.blogspot.com/2008/12...Dec 22 20:58
schestowitzIn DistroWtach, over the past 7 days, Mint Linux got more pageviews than Ubuntu.Dec 22 21:00
trmanco:ODec 22 21:01
trmancoMint is goodDec 22 21:02
trmancoits Ubuntu + a bunch of tweaks e less bloat, maybeDec 22 21:02
trmanco:o   Microsoft Corp.'s developers missed a critical bug in Internet Explorer because they weren't properly trained and didn't have the right testing tools, a noted proponent of the company's secure code development process acknowledged last week.Dec 22 21:06
trmancohttp://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?...Dec 22 21:06
trmancothey weren't trained c'monDec 22 21:07
schestowitzMight be true.Dec 22 21:08
schestowitzThey lost their best hackers.Dec 22 21:08
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/200...Dec 22 21:08
schestowitzSecond REF worth attention... "“With Alchin retiring, MarkL and MarkZ, two of the most talented architects in MS already having left, the picture gets really ugly for the Windows division,” my friend claimed, and the BV’s core team members, Ian McDonald, Jack Mayo, Todd Wanke, Clyde Rodriguez and others are starting to connect the dots."Dec 22 21:09
schestowitz"Despite Microsoft's claims that Vista has sold well, consumers have reacted badly to its release." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology...Dec 22 21:10
trmancoI missed that bbc article somehowDec 22 21:15
trmancobetter be more careful next time a read my feedsDec 22 21:15
schestowitzhttp://uk.reuters.com/article/governmentFili... "Deployments of server computers are expected to slow, UBS said, with spending on Microsoft Corp (MSFT.O) Windows servers expected to grow 2 percent in 2009 after 3 percent in 2008, and open-source Linux server growth is set to be flat at 1 percent."Dec 22 21:16
schestowitzSince when does USB track server revenue?Dec 22 21:16
schestowitzAlso, revenue != share.Dec 22 21:16
trmancoUSB? LOLDec 22 21:16
schestowitzUBSDec 22 21:16
schestowitzCommon typo for me... habits.Dec 22 21:16
trmancoyou got me there for a minuteDec 22 21:16
*seller_liar (n=jircii@201-43-205-219.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellDec 22 21:22
schestowitzwb, seller_liar Dec 22 21:27
seller_liarschestowitz: hello royDec 22 21:29
schestowitzAny news from the south?Dec 22 21:29
seller_liaryes , one , wait a momentDec 22 21:29
seller_liarhttp://br-linux.org/2008/empresa-de-...Dec 22 21:30
seller_liarm$ and affiliates uses piracy to attack companiesDec 22 21:30
schestowitzAs usual.Dec 22 21:30
schestowitzThey need money now, so they bully.Dec 22 21:31
seller_liarBut ,I have not find a english versionDec 22 21:31
schestowitzhttp://searchengineland.com/searc... http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/12/rumors...Dec 22 21:31
schestowitzhttp://pooteeweet.org/blog/0/1388#m1388 (My advice to the database division at Sun)Dec 22 21:33
seller_liarNow , we have another proof against m$ , abramoffDec 22 21:33
seller_liarNow ,trolls does not to argument anymoreDec 22 21:34
schestowitzGlad you found it useful.Dec 22 21:34
schestowitz"It’s not appropriate for information such as sales records and other data that either fits well in a table or needs to be accessible for a long period of time. And it only works in Java." http://gigaom.com/2008/12/18/terracotta-doesnt-w...Dec 22 21:34
schestowitzEither way, it makes it hard for the hecklers to say with a straight face that Microsoft can and should be trusted.Dec 22 21:34
seller_liarA final solution for mono problem is create a java implementation of .netDec 22 21:39
seller_liarlicensed in lgplv3Dec 22 21:39
schestowitzHow would that be a solution?Dec 22 21:40
seller_liarthis give more power to java platform and do not steals java developersDec 22 21:41
seller_liarlgplv3 provides more protectionDec 22 21:41
seller_liarjava can use .net librariesDec 22 21:41
seller_liarthis is very important because some devs is changing from java to .netDec 22 21:43
schestowitzJava still dominatesDec 22 21:44
MinceRan independent implementation could help too, couldn't it?Dec 22 21:44
MinceR(dotgnu)Dec 22 21:44
schestowitzThe issue is Novell helping Microsoft against SunDec 22 21:44
seller_liarnoDec 22 21:44
MinceRi don't think java is such a sacred platform anyway :>Dec 22 21:44
seller_liarbecause dotgnu does not permit to java use .net librariesDec 22 21:44
MinceRat least until they fix memory management in the jvmDec 22 21:44
seller_liara java implementation of .net (like jython) can helps a lotDec 22 21:45
seller_liarfor example , jython can mix python and javaDec 22 21:45
schestowitzSob stories from the Vole: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft...Dec 22 21:45
seller_liarI like to see m$ ruining , but I don t like to see google to growDec 22 21:48
MinceRsame hereDec 22 21:50
seller_liarThe big problem in all companies is try to turn the "unique" company of universeDec 22 21:51
seller_liarLike intel, coca-cola and some BanksDec 22 21:51
seller_liarThis is anti-capitalismDec 22 21:52
seller_liarA good number of companies provides harmony and good heterogene businessDec 22 21:53
schestowitzBut you have no regulationDec 22 21:55
schestowitzIf you permit companies to set the rules, then soon they open the door to predatory capitalism that ends up a set of monopolies of shared monopolies (price fixing also)Dec 22 21:56
seller_liarBut companies should not to set the rules,Dec 22 21:57
schestowitzWell, they doDec 22 21:57
seller_liarWhat I say is , is very important to have a heterogenous number of companiesDec 22 21:57
seller_liarMonopolies is very destructiveDec 22 21:57
seller_liarOligopolies tooDec 22 21:58
seller_liarWe need variety , and choiceDec 22 21:58
seller_liarBut the real solution is very complexDec 22 21:59
schestowitzAgainst human nature?Dec 22 21:59
seller_liarYesDec 22 22:00
seller_liarPeople like to be "unique" and powerfulDec 22 22:00
schestowitzWoohoo! http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&a...Dec 22 22:00
seller_liarLike a leader in a tribal communityDec 22 22:00
schestowitzhttp://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTe... (Red Hat profit tops Street forecast)Dec 22 22:01
*neighborlee (i=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovellDec 22 22:13
schestowitzseller_liar: yes, tribe culture.Dec 22 22:15
schestowitzIt's 'in the blood' so to speak. It would be nice to have another better creature -- like Aliens ;-) -- 'manage' us before we totally screw out the planet due to animal instincts that involve expansion and pissing on territories. The Amazon deforestation is a good example.Dec 22 22:16
schestowitzOStatic is promoting former Microsoft employees+Mono: http://ostatic.com/blog/upgrade-mindtouc...Dec 22 22:19
*seller_liar has quit ("seller_liar has no reason")Dec 22 22:24
schestowitzMozilla CEO: Ties with Google 'complicated' since Chrome < http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?co... >Dec 22 22:54
schestowitzhttp://aronzak.wordpress.com/2008/1...Dec 22 23:20
*kentma (n=user@GLPHON22-1168101524.sdsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovellDec 22 23:30
trmancoOpenSUSE 11.1: Evolution dependent on Mono: http://www.itwire.com/content/v...Dec 22 23:32
trmancoand the [censored] beginsDec 22 23:35
schestowitzExcellent. Now they owe me an apology (the Mono fans)Dec 22 23:35
trmancothrow this into there facesDec 22 23:36
trmancoand see how they reactDec 22 23:36
trmancoGNOME should be *cute* based :-PDec 22 23:37
trmancohttp://digg.com/linux_unix/OpenSUSE_11...Dec 22 23:39
schestowitzQt?Dec 22 23:40
MinceRi prefer KMail anyway :>Dec 22 23:40
schestowitzMark S thought about itr.Dec 22 23:40
trmancoyeah cuteDec 22 23:40
MinceRhttp://www.myextralife.com/?p=10551Dec 22 23:41
schestowitzThey'll spin it I bet... saying that OpenSUSE made some mistake. We shall see..Dec 22 23:42
*kentma has quit ("Leaving.")Dec 22 23:44
*kentma1 (n=user@GLPHON22-1168101524.sdsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovellDec 22 23:44
trmancoFor Windows, 2008 Was a Roller Coaster: http://www.pcworld.com/article/155925/...Dec 22 23:45
trmancoweeeeeDec 22 23:45
schestowitzndowsDec 22 23:47

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