Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 15th, 2009 - Part 2


Enter the IRC channel now

trmanco"6. Boot timesJan 15 15:22
trmancoMy XP would take at times almost 10 minutes to boot up, log in and get going, and Ubuntu cuts it down to around 2. Makes my computer experience much better from the start."Jan 15 15:22
MinceRmy kubuntu boots in 1 minuteJan 15 15:23
MinceR(after fixing /etc/hosts and replacing exim with postfix)Jan 15 15:23
trmancomy ubuntu boots in about 40 secondsJan 15 15:24
trmancogrub -> login screenJan 15 15:24
trmancologin screen -> usable state  | about +12 secondsJan 15 15:24
trmancomaybe lessJan 15 15:24
schestowitz IBM to creates 1,300 jobs in Iowa < > Comes/Iowa? :-)Jan 15 15:48
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schestowitz I'd be surprised you found no typos, but it's gratifying if that's the case. I'll go ahead and edit it after one last pass... Thank you so much for reading...  let me know what you think.Jan 15 16:14
moogstrapwhew. it's pretty comprehensiveJan 15 16:30
schestowitzHopefully the Indian press will use it again.Jan 15 16:30
schestowitzanivar helped me with the references and all..Jan 15 16:30
moogstrapayeJan 15 16:33
schestowitzJust keep an eye on: 15 16:33
schestowitzby mail: "More to come, I guess. It is about lobbying the Article 29 Group, the core advisor community for data protection regulation in Europe."Jan 15 16:33
schestowitzThey already expand Sarko-type laws to Belgium.Jan 15 16:34
schestowitz"As of Belgian Universities I never saw such a tendency of academic institutions to sell out. 3/4 year ago I was at a law school event at Vrije University (because I resided in Brussels) with Nokia, it was about software copyright, not patents as I expected,. and basically these lobbyists used a students class as a training platform..."Jan 15 16:35
schestowitz"for their BS lobbying and maybe for brainwash of future generations, no idea maybe the University is a title mill. Basically there is an intellectual level you need to meet, I am not against partisan science or industry involvement, but that was way below. I had a person from the Council with me and we were both shocked."Jan 15 16:35
schestowitz"You know the interesting aspect that they basically prostitute their institution to each and every player, the next week was a kind of security policy event with nato announced. This vulnerability might be related to the split in the Belgian nation in different language groups with their own administration and universities."Jan 15 16:35
schestowitzUS -> France (via Sarko) -> rest of EUJan 15 16:35
schestowitzMcCreevy tooJan 15 16:35
karabaswhats about that ”data protection regulation in Europe”?Jan 15 16:35
moogstrapyes I haven't heard about thatJan 15 16:35
schestowitzEVENT ANNOUNCEMENT : Computers, Privacy & Data Protection conference: Data Protection in A Profiled World ? < >Jan 15 16:36
schestowitzIt starts tomorrowJan 15 16:36
schestowitz"16 January 2009 - 17 January 2009 Brussels, Belgium -  This event aims to offer a disscussion forum for policymakers, academics, practitioners, activists and representatives from standardization bodies and ICT industries,on key issues related to data protection and privacy. The main topic of this year's conference is "profiling and automatic computing"."Jan 15 16:36
moogstraphere's the UK doc 15 16:36
schestowitzEurope lets the American companies (i.e. investors) decide and instruct the youngJan 15 16:37
schestowitzThis is wrongJan 15 16:37
schestowitzEducation and regulation comes FROM ABOVE corps, but they let _even overseas_ companies write law and practice.Jan 15 16:37
moogstrapThe indoctrination thing is interesting. I mean, most people I know grew up with the belief that sharing is good. now it's something perverse. Even things that are supposed to be shared anyway (GNU/Linux etc) are a threat. I wonder how successful it's going to beJan 15 16:40
schestowitzLet me find a postJan 15 16:40
schestowitzMicrosoft brags about this to investors.Jan 15 16:40
schestowitz (there are more)Jan 15 16:41
schestowitzGotta love this photo: 15 16:42
moogstraphahJan 15 16:43
schestowitzI assembled more links about it in BN, so in case I need to provide substantial evidence, I can.Jan 15 16:44
moogstrapeughJan 15 16:46
moogstrapnastyJan 15 16:46
schestowitzThat's old news now, sort ofJan 15 16:46
schestowitzI've not heard about it for like 6 months, but it's documented. They charge curricula.Jan 15 16:47
schestowitz*changeJan 15 16:47
schestowitzThat's what word/terms like "intellectual PROPERTY" and "STEALING" are about. Microsoft employees are taught to use them when referring to ideas and they recite even terms like "piracy". "If thought can corrupt language, then language can also corrupt thought." --George OrwellJan 15 16:51
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schestowitzPropagation of error re: R as an 'open source' (???) project... 15 16:55
schestowitzThe New York Times (Ashlee Vance) spread this mistake last week.Jan 15 16:55
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neighborleeschestowitz, Rajeev Kaul comment about post novel-sco is weirdJan 15 17:06
schestowitzI missed that. where?Jan 15 17:06
schestowitzin response to it?Jan 15 17:07
schestowitzwe need contextJan 15 17:07
neighborleeGiven the impact of Education market in India globally for us and the threats from Linux and piracy, I want to make this a big bet plan in India (post Novell - Sco and Trishul).  < thisJan 15 17:08
schestowitzAny close links b/w them prior to 2003?Jan 15 17:08
neighborleeodd phrasing there 'big bet plan' but whatever ;)Jan 15 17:08
schestowitznovell= netware; sco=unixJan 15 17:09
moogstrapsorry. phonecall. I was going to say that, as a seaman, I have actually been chased by pirates. they weren't offering copyrighted materials.Jan 15 17:09
*schestowitz on phoneJan 15 17:10
schestowitzBig betJan 15 17:11
schestowitzbetting on replacing unix?Jan 15 17:11
schestowitzBaystar?Jan 15 17:11
schestowitzWhere's Trishul?Jan 15 17:12
schestowitzOr who is it?Jan 15 17:12
schestowitzWorth googling.Jan 15 17:12
neighborleeschestowitz, joseX well said last few posts..very nice. 15 17:18
neighborleeschestowitz, I feel  exactly the same.Jan 15 17:19
moogstrapthat API patent really takes the pissJan 15 17:21
neighborleeyupJan 15 17:22
moogstrapan optimistic view: 15 17:24
schestowitzShould i post something about that SCO-NOVELL thing in isolation?Jan 15 17:24
moogstrapyou mean from the email quote?Jan 15 17:26
schestowitzIntel is corrupting the term "open source" now (just spotted in the news): 15 17:26
schestowitzmoogstrap: yes.Jan 15 17:26
schestowitzIt could be worth bearing in mind.Jan 15 17:27
schestowitzSCO and India are not so isolatedJan 15 17:27
schestowitzThey had SandiJan 15 17:27
schestowitzThey also had some deals there and deploymentsJan 15 17:27
moogstrapI don't really knowJan 15 17:31
moogstrapI mean, is that the only reference?Jan 15 17:33
moogstrapstill it's omninousJan 15 17:35
schestowitzYes, only this reference.Jan 15 17:37
schestowitzWhere's Trishul? Let's google it.. :-)Jan 15 17:37
schestowitz 15 17:37
schestowitzBN at top spotJan 15 17:37
schestowitz 15 17:38
schestowitzTrishul may refer to:Jan 15 17:38
schestowitz    * Trishul (weapon), a type of traditional trident from IndiaJan 15 17:38
schestowitz    * Trishul (missile), a surface-to-air missile under development in IndiaJan 15 17:38
schestowitz    * Trishul (film), a 1978 Hindi filmJan 15 17:38
schestowitz    * INS Trishul, an Indian guided missile frigate bought from RussiaJan 15 17:38
schestowitz    * Trishul or Trisul, the name of a Himalayan mountain peak.Jan 15 17:38
schestowitzAre they trying to torpedo Linux with Novell/SCO? ;-)Jan 15 17:38
moogstrapor Trishul ApartmentsJan 15 17:39
schestowitzPJ might know..Jan 15 17:39
moogstrap 15 17:42
moogstrap"Contributed to conceiving and developing “Trishul” plan as a core member with Sanjay Mirchandani, Rajiv Kaul and Tarun Gulati"Jan 15 17:42
schestowitzAhhhhhhh.Jan 15 17:43
schestowitzGood find.Jan 15 17:43
schestowitzSo how does this related to "Novell - Sco"?Jan 15 17:43
moogstrapmeh. All I can find are articles about missilesJan 15 17:48
moogstrapand some Java thing for mobilesJan 15 17:48
moogstrapuh, cellphonesJan 15 17:49
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schestowitzAt least we know, thanks to you, that it's a projectJan 15 17:49
schestowitzLike Sco -Novell maybe?Jan 15 17:49
schestowitzI don't know the chronicles of this too welll...Jan 15 17:49
schestowitzPJ has historical summaries...Jan 15 17:49
moogstrapdoubtful: 15 17:50
schestowitzSo I don't know how SCO related to Novell before litigationJan 15 17:50
schestowitzGrokDoc/GrokLine with timelines and all might helpJan 15 17:50
schestowitzSCO did some mobile stuff recently (failed of course)Jan 15 17:50
schestowitzSigned some deals in India IIRCJan 15 17:50
schestowitzNow it sells the assetsJan 15 17:50
moogstrapgoogle has forsaken me. sorry dudeJan 15 18:03
moogstrapA patent invented by a guy called Trishul, owned by Microsoft: 15 18:13
schestowitzHeh :-)Jan 15 18:15
schestowitzThanks for looking.Jan 15 18:15
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schestowitzHey _doug Jan 15 18:26
schestowitzWe got a WikiJan 15 18:26
_dougcaptain_mag: whassup ?Jan 15 18:26
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-_doug-DCC Chat ( 15 18:27
*Received a DCC CHAT offer from _dougJan 15 18:27
schestowitzcaptain-suseJan 15 18:27
_dougI see some new faces, not a lot of chat though :)Jan 15 18:27
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moogstrapi'm swimming in work :sJan 15 18:31
schestowitzPatents Roundup: Microsoft, Novell, Trolls, Europe, Bilski, Rambus and More: 15 18:32
schestowitz_doug: did you expect a carnival?Jan 15 18:32
_dougnaw ...Jan 15 18:32
_dougmoog: I just browse YOutube all day .. get paid the same ...Jan 15 18:33
schestowitzwaddup with BN?Jan 15 18:33
schestowitzServer acts weirdly...Jan 15 18:34
_dougthe more work you do, the more they'l lgive you ..Jan 15 18:34
moogstrapi'm strictly after hours. I'm making a python version of a really lame excel spreadsheet "programme" handed out to us at my collegeJan 15 18:34
schestowitzGah, is it down?Jan 15 18:34
schestowitzIt's up... 15 18:34
_dougno< seems ok here ..Jan 15 18:34
schestowitzexcel spreadhseet? ;-)Jan 15 18:34
schestowitzThat's like saying Internet Explorer pageJan 15 18:35
schestowitzShouldn't we separate formats from apps?Jan 15 18:35
_dougwhat kind of 'excel' program ?Jan 15 18:35
schestowitzOh... look... I got a Thunderbird E-mail.Jan 15 18:35
schestowitzI'll pass it on to you... convert it to GMail formatJan 15 18:35
moogstrapnavigation programme. shipsJan 15 18:36
_dougmindshare: excel = spreadsheet .. like the Microsoft Internet explorer ...Jan 15 18:36
MinceRschestowitz: you know, like there are web pages and IE pagesJan 15 18:36
*moogstrap watching the patent vidJan 15 18:36
schestowitzDoes the page miss some images on your side?Jan 15 18:36
schestowitzI wonder if Shane is moving the CSS images to another server..Jan 15 18:37
_dougyea, we need to 'understand' how to make webpages not display correctly in Netscale .. :)Jan 15 18:37
MinceRno, but one could say that some companies deviate so much from standards that they effectively create their own formatsJan 15 18:37
_dougWindows for Warships(TM) gets virus infection ..[->]Jan 15 18:38
_doug 15 18:38
moogstrapyeah. "you're doing it wrong"Jan 15 18:39
_dougbest new Windows program of 2008 ..Jan 15 18:40
_dougSecunia Personal Software InspectorJan 15 18:40
_doug 15 18:40
_dougan AV package .. HAAAAAA !!!!Jan 15 18:41
trmancoLOLJan 15 18:41
schestowitzBEst program fixes deficiencyJan 15 18:42
schestowitzInherent oneJan 15 18:42
moogstrapa virus was going round here recently. it ended up on loads of people's USB sticks. I removed the viruses from my linux box. I should have charged money for thatJan 15 18:43
schestowitzBest program for Linux: bug fix (patch) for unexpected system lockupsJan 15 18:43
schestowitzAll Ubuntu installations are infected as standard. Mononucleosis.Jan 15 18:44
tessier_moogstrap: Your Linux box had a virus?Jan 15 18:44
moogstrapdoug: don't forget about the defrag programmeJan 15 18:44
moogstraptessier: oh, no. I mean I put the USB sticks into it, and deleted the virus executables and other dodgy-looking filesJan 15 18:44
tessier_oh, okJan 15 18:45
moogstrapfree of chargeJan 15 18:45
tessier_Because that would be a first if your Linux box got a virus. :)Jan 15 18:45
_dougevery time I go home I have an exe file and autorun.inf on by USB device ..Jan 15 18:46
moogstrapI made a shell script once that added "| xargs rm" to ls commands. If I gave it an ls alias, I suppose that would have made it a virus of sortsJan 15 18:47
moogstrapyeahJan 15 18:47
_dougmoogstrap: naughty ...Jan 15 18:48
moogstrapI don't know. I went through a long command-line obsession phase. I wasn't thinking about it at the timeJan 15 18:49
_dougdid you replace login with your own version ?Jan 15 18:49
moogstrapno. I made some aliases and some scripts and that was about itJan 15 18:50
moogstrapi keep it simple. I use fish as default login shell. Pretty colours and allJan 15 18:51
tessier_"Various MoD computers and N* nets aboard warships including the carrier Ark Royal have suffered N* outages over the past fortnight, caused by virus infection." from 15 18:52
_dougfish ?Jan 15 18:52
tessier_Does the British Navy have a carrier named Ark Royal today? I know there was one during WWII which was sunk near Gibraltar by a torpedo...Jan 15 18:52
twitterDid you see the BBC story about M$ Partner, Red China, and their "army" of online "spinners"?Jan 15 18:52
_dougthat's old news tessier ..Jan 15 18:52
moogstrap 15 18:53
moogstraptwitter: link?Jan 15 18:53
twitterLet me dig it up.Jan 15 18:53
schestowitzbblJan 15 18:53
_dougmoog: but it calls /bin/loginJan 15 18:53
tessier_Hmm...apparently they built a new one.Jan 15 18:53
_dougso what you do is write your own login and then put it in the PATH of the user .. :)Jan 15 18:54
_dougfish looks similar to Midnight CommanderJan 15 18:55
_dougpersonally BASH and a bunch of functions and scripts does for me ...Jan 15 18:56
_dougget MC fro WIndows here 15 18:57
moogstrapI tried MC when I used sidux for a whileJan 15 18:57
twitterGot it. 15 18:58
tessier_ "Windows 7 is easier to install, easier to use, simple to configure, compatible with a wide range of devices and software, and is the operating system for PC gaming, period. "Jan 15 18:59
tessier_Windows is like toilet paper. If toilet paper got thicker every time the adverts said it did a single sheet would be a mile thick by now.Jan 15 18:59
moogstraptwitter: taJan 15 18:59
tessier_And if Windows got easier to use every time they said it did it would give you a blow and then light your cigarette for you.Jan 15 18:59
tessier_"Windows 7 is also catering to admins with its tough little PowerShell utliity--a souped-up version of the command line that now allows administrators to remotely mess with machines via a powerful console-based scripting environment."Jan 15 19:00
_dougI'm aware of 'Internet spin doctors', I read o job offer for a similar job hereJan 15 19:00
tessier_And that's another thing. Windows admins going for command line? After so many years of anti-command line marketing?Jan 15 19:00
moogstrapcomrades will now have a bigger ration of chocolate!Jan 15 19:00
_dougGet paid to hang about a forum and keep the chat ontopic ...Jan 15 19:00
twitterYeah, but China's supposedly got em by the tens of thousands. Who knows, you could be one of them.Jan 15 19:00
_dougyea: PowerShell, back to the future ..Jan 15 19:00
twitterThose who don't know Unix are doomed to re-implement it poorly.Jan 15 19:01
_dougIn schools, it would do the students a whole lot better that all the 'click here' turorials, to learn the ONE scripting language ...Jan 15 19:01
twitterGiven China's extensive espionage efforts, it would be in their best interests to promote broken and insecure crap like Windows.Jan 15 19:02
_dougInterSpinDoctors: 'They have been dubbed the "50-cent party" because of how much they are reputed to be paid for each positive posting'Jan 15 19:02
_dougRoy, I guess we have a few here :)Jan 15 19:03
twitterWe can also be sure they rent out their workers.Jan 15 19:03
twitterImagine how much money you could make at 50 cents per line of IRC posting.  Ha ha.Jan 15 19:03
_dougwhat's the going rate on Usenet or blog spam ?Jan 15 19:04
moogstraptwitter: that would encourage crapflooders... oh waitJan 15 19:05
_doug 15 19:05
twitter" Internet commentators have now become widespread, according to experts. Some estimate that there are now tens of thousands of them. There are also reports that special centres have been set up to train China's new army of internet spin doctors."Jan 15 19:06
twitterRMS wonder if China got the idea from Bush of Vice Versa.  M$ is the innovator here, starting with crude efforts like "Steve Barkto"Jan 15 19:07
_dougBBC BASIC was good for learning scripting, had procs and stuff, no need of line numbers or GoToS .. :)Jan 15 19:08
_doug 15 19:09
_dougI have to go, they stopped paying me an hour ago ... :)Jan 15 19:10
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moogstraptah!Jan 15 19:10
tessier_ A pro-Bush article in a UK newspaper? WTF? And it says "There are 3,000 people who would have died in the August 2005 airline conspiracy if it had not been for the superb inter-agency co-operation demanded by Bush after 9/11." What 2005 airline conspiracy?!Jan 15 19:11
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moogstraphahahhaJan 15 19:12
moogstrapThe Power of Nightmares should be required viewing for everybodyJan 15 19:12
moogstrapI don't think anybody in the UK has any respect for him. I don't think anyone ever hasJan 15 19:14
tessier_The author of that article seems to.Jan 15 19:15
moogstrapbut then, watching the news when Tony Blair stepped down was enlightening, too. They were all gushing and saying how terrible it was, and how he'd be missed etc etc, neatly side-stepping that he stepped down because he was hated. By everybodyJan 15 19:15
moogstrapyeahJan 15 19:16
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moogstrap it didn't take long for market economics to swallow "open source" as a business model.Jan 15 19:28
trmancoEvery child in Portugal and Venezuela will have open source:,10000...Jan 15 19:46
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moogstraphrmm. maybe msft will fund another coup to get rid of ChavezJan 15 19:51
trmancomaybeJan 15 19:55
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moogstraptime to go. tahJan 15 20:09
amd-linuxMS finally took over Digg? or are there really still so many MS fans in the US?Jan 15 20:10
amd-linuxsee 15 20:10
amd-linuxlook the comments and the diggsJan 15 20:10
MinceRwell, apparently not only apple fanboys have swarmed diggJan 15 20:11
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amd-linuxwell, on the other site, the Microsoft section is their home turf :-)Jan 15 20:15
amd-linuxon the other hand, it is new to me that MS users are so present....Jan 15 20:16
amd-linuxthere are some MSCE here in German boards of course but they are a re clear minorityJan 15 20:16
amd-linuxbut since the marketing release of Vista SP1 aka win7 they make a lot of noiseJan 15 20:18
MinceRthat's because they can see the end comingJan 15 20:20
MinceRthey try to lie to themselves about it, of courseJan 15 20:20
MinceRbut deep inside they know that m$ is doomedJan 15 20:20
amd-linuxwell, if they would get rid of ballmer and start to run MS like a business instead of a second Chruch of ScientologyJan 15 20:22
amd-linuxthen they would be able to turn it around....Jan 15 20:22
amd-linuxbut they painted themselves quite into the cornerJan 15 20:22
amd-linuxby ridiculing FOSS. Open is the future, they know it but can not admit it....Jan 15 20:23
amd-linuxas long as Gates and Ballmer are around.Jan 15 20:23
MinceRturning m$ around costs too muchJan 15 20:23
amd-linuxand they treat the company like their personal private army, unable to admit that they are wrongJan 15 20:24
MinceRalso, probably the closer they are to the top of m$, the more deluded they areJan 15 20:24
amd-linuxwell would be easy.... adopt Linux as the core of the OS, build the Windows GUI around it and there you goJan 15 20:24
amd-linuxnot that I want to see this happen....Jan 15 20:25
amd-linuxbut they would have a secure, top notch OS core and their users the "familiar" GUI without the BSOD :-)Jan 15 20:25
amd-linuxbut Ballmer will rather bite his own d*** before he admits that FOSS and people like Stallman are actually rightJan 15 20:26
amd-linuxhe is a fanatic - unfortunately on the wrong sideJan 15 20:26
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schestowitzI've just been hearing that the Qt news is bad newsJan 15 21:02
MinceRwhy?Jan 15 21:03
tessier_Yeah, why?Jan 15 21:04
schestowitzAstroturfing is against the law in Europe now. One could probably sue many American companies here.Jan 15 21:04
schestowitzDigg is a messJan 15 21:06
schestowitzI hardly comment in ther anymoreJan 15 21:06
schestowitzit has pro-MS stalkersJan 15 21:07
schestowitzAnd mod bombersJan 15 21:07
schestowitzNot only SteveB attack FOSSJan 15 21:08
tessier_I prefer these days anywayJan 15 21:08
schestowitzThey are all a bunch of zealots (yes, hypocrites too) up at the top... just watch them correspond.Jan 15 21:08
schestowitzGrey even called Linux a "cult" in correspondence b/w them. Does Remond have no mirrors?Jan 15 21:09
schestowitzMinceR: re qt, I promised to keep it privateJan 15 21:09
schestowitzHere's a gem I got: "Steven Vaughan Nichols recently published a blog on SCO with "Garbage" in the title.  The comments attracted some SCO or Microsoft troll, who made five or more postings, all repeating a line about the "PR" campaign of Groklaw, and how Pamela Jones and her son had commercial interests in promoting FOSS, and how that plus IBM backing was why they had run this anti-SCO web site. "Jan 15 21:10
schestowitz"[...]  You'd think from reading those posts that there was a huge controversy about who PJ was and what her motives were for doing it.  These people will stop at nothing. "Jan 15 21:10
schestowitzbrbJan 15 21:12
kevin_seen this story yet? 15 21:14
tessier_***THURSDAY MORNING UPDATE***Jan 15 21:19
tessier_Tens of thousands of people have read and commented on this story, making it one of the most-read stories in the history of WKOWTV.COM.  27 News reporter Dan Cassuto will file an update on 27 News at 5:00 on Thursday.  We'll review viewer comments, explain why this story is making some viewers so angry, and explore how quickly it's spreading around the internet.Jan 15 21:19
tessier_hahaahJan 15 21:19
tessier_That was on /. this morningJan 15 21:19
tessier_Poor WKOWTV never saw it coming.Jan 15 21:19
tessier_I bet they are all or mostly pro-LinuxJan 15 21:19
tessier_This is great for Linux. Mainstream exposure on the nightly news.Jan 15 21:19
tessier_Not sure why Dell tried to convince her to go with it though. That was a bad move on Dell's part.Jan 15 21:20
tessier_They should have just returned it.Jan 15 21:20
tessier_But dropping out of school because of a laptop issue? That's just retarded.Jan 15 21:21
MinceRthat woman is obviously an extreme idiot.Jan 15 21:21
MinceRas such, it would be a waste to have her go to college anyway.Jan 15 21:22
kevin_tell me about it. i dropped out because they were wasting my time. e.g. an internship where i wasted 70 hoursJan 15 21:23
kevin_anyway... i think it's unfair how they're painting ubuntuJan 15 21:23
tessier_Wow, tons of people came out to support Ubuntu in the comments.Jan 15 21:24
kevin_i'm sure if she really wanted windows, she could have asked dell for a replacement within the 30 or whatever day periodJan 15 21:25
MinceRthey should charge extra for winblows anywayJan 15 21:25
kevin_i experienced that whole ISP thing first hand though. I had to boot into windows to configure it which is a load of crapJan 15 21:26
MinceRaccording to the /. people that cd is actually unnecessaryJan 15 21:27
kevin_yeah apparenrly you can log into the router and bypass the friendly UI to configure it by handJan 15 21:27
MinceRas for "word", she probably wouldn't use many of the functionality anyway so AbiWord should be fine.Jan 15 21:28
MinceRor OOoJan 15 21:29
kevin_it's that whole brand recognition thing though. They don't ask you if you know spreadsheets, they ask if you know excel. Average people then think the only way to do work is with excelJan 15 21:30
MinceRthe worst part is that after playing around with windows and word, they believe they know everythingJan 15 21:31
MinceRand they don't ask, only complainJan 15 21:31
kevin_they know everything... until a new version comes out with a new UI :)Jan 15 21:32
MinceR:)Jan 15 21:32
kevin_i remember thinking i knew everything about windows 95Jan 15 21:32
schestowitzkevin_: they also think that anything "Like Excel" is just a 'copy' of itJan 15 21:33
schestowitzExcel... yeah... like Microsoft invested spreadsh*tsJan 15 21:33
schestowitzinventedJan 15 21:33
MinceReven m$ believes they invented everythingJan 15 21:34
schestowitzKool_aidJan 15 21:34
schestowitzTheir employees say "Steal"Jan 15 21:34
schestowitzThey think that GUI/window interfaces are copying of WindowsJan 15 21:34
schestowitzPrevalence makes prior art?Jan 15 21:34
schestowitzMarketing doesJan 15 21:34
schestowitzAnd they use their army of spinners to pass on these liesJan 15 21:35
tessier_The comment system on that website is horrible.Jan 15 21:35
kevin_i saw a mac with a 9 inch b&w screen using a gui from like 1983Jan 15 21:35
schestowitzSo this means that they can pass on such lies by 'infecting' non-spinnersJan 15 21:35
MinceRthen more privately they acknowledge that both m$ and apple brutally ripped off xeroxJan 15 21:35
MinceRhave you seen Pirates of the Silicon Valley?Jan 15 21:35
schestowitz"Hey, Steve, just because you broke into Xerox’s store before I did and took the TV doesn’t mean I can’t go in later and steal the stereo." --Bill Gates, MicrosoftJan 15 21:36
schestowitzOne "pirate" is out.. another one joins him..Jan 15 21:37
MinceRthey also both quote "good artists copy, great artists steal" -- at least in the movie.Jan 15 21:37
MinceR:)Jan 15 21:37
schestowitzmail: "I guess you all saw where Jobs is stepping down.  He's almost certainly been lying about his health.  I know many of you have doubts about him and what Apple has done, but I hate to see one of Microsoft's biggest thorns and humiliations go away.  All I can say is, I'm sure they're partying in Redmond. "Jan 15 21:37
schestowitzSteve Ballmer: "I'm going to f* bury that guy"Jan 15 21:37
schestowitzBut he said that about Schmidt, not JobsJan 15 21:38
kevin_they should release an updated version of the movie with one of those "you wouldn't steal a car would you?" ads at the start :)Jan 15 21:38
MinceRlolJan 15 21:38
schestowitzIt's like an ugly version of American PsychoJan 15 21:38
schestowitzAwww... that's nice.... the bonus of lock-in.. 15 21:47
schestowitzDo No Ev$$$^H^H^H^H^H^HvEOLJan 15 21:48
schestowitzWall Street Journal: bad news for Microsoft, exploring layoffs 15 21:49
schestowitzFudzllla vs WSJJan 15 21:49
schestowitz"Microsoft Corp. is seriously exploring significant work force reductions that could be announced as early as next week, in a sign that the weak economy is prompting tough decisions even at one of the steadiest ships in the technology industry."Jan 15 21:49
*NeonFloss ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 15 21:50
*seller_liar (i=c91bacb9@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellJan 15 21:52
*schestowitz does a post about MS layoffsJan 15 22:01
*r0ve1 is now known as r0verJan 15 22:07
trmancoI'm hearing an old podcast of yoursJan 15 22:09
seller_liartrmanco: a interesting videoJan 15 22:12
seller_liartrmanco: 15 22:12
*schestowitz looksJan 15 22:13
schestowitzI don't understand why BN CSS is acting upJan 15 22:14
schestowitzbrowsershots shows this to be a universal thing.Jan 15 22:14
seller_liarschestowitz: the site gets white?Jan 15 22:14
schestowitzYes, I know.Jan 15 22:14
seller_liarschestowitz: probably can be trafficJan 15 22:14
schestowitzIt doesn't load up images from the sttylesheetJan 15 22:14
schestowitzCould be, but it's not peaking.Jan 15 22:15
schestowitzI saw this earlier and it 'repaired' itselfJan 15 22:15
schestowitzWhich indicated that it's not a consistent behaviour. So I guess the server might not serve pages properlyJan 15 22:15
schestowitzIn which case debugging might be a waste of time.Jan 15 22:15
trmanconiceJan 15 22:16
seller_liartrmanco: It's quite old , but look at end.Intel have problems tooJan 15 22:16
trmancoyeah, I saw that tooJan 15 22:16
schestowitzBallard keeps repeating: "Actually, in 1984, Bill Gates told a reporter, Byte magazine I think, that his aim was to control the world. He outlined how he would not only control the operating system, but also all of the applications, and the network, giving him total control of all information stored or passed between PCs."Jan 15 22:17
schestowitz" This information could be used, through leaks and passing to the right people, to allow Gates to pick the world's leaders."Jan 15 22:17
schestowitzHe said this many time and I think I heard it elsewhere to to corroborate.Jan 15 22:17
schestowitzHe just ought to find hard proof and exact quote. That would be grand.Jan 15 22:18
schestowitz"I think you would be hard pressed to prove that it was Bill Gates who personally ordered the tapping and leaks of information on the computers of Governors, Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, prosecutors, and even leaders in other countries. But so many leaks from people's PCs would indicate that SOMEBODY had figured out how to make Bill's fantasy a reality."Jan 15 22:18
seller_liarschestowitz: probably bill alrady know details about obama and mccain campaignJan 15 22:20
seller_liarschestowitz: probably microsoft blacklists and tracks all politicansJan 15 22:20
schestowitzThey invested heavily in him, but it's not likely to be relatedJan 15 22:21
seller_liarschestowitz: what cj is doing here?Jan 15 22:21
MinceRschestowitz: link?Jan 15 22:22
schestowitzMaybe the host capped usJan 15 22:22
MinceRsounds like gates is the second l. ron hubbardJan 15 22:22
schestowitzAfter all the server load could images be disabled or something capped? I don't know...Jan 15 22:23
schestowitzHmmmm.. this layout thing is annoying. People can still read the text, but how long will this last for?Jan 15 22:25
schestowitzI wonder if it's related to the new Wiki installation somehow (unlikely)Jan 15 22:25
schestowitzWTF...Jan 15 22:27
schestowitz 15 22:27
schestowitzMaybe it's the subsite thing.Jan 15 22:27
MinceRdns seems deadJan 15 22:29
schestowitzOh f*Jan 15 22:29
schestowitzIt's the triple W??Jan 15 22:29
MinceRyesJan 15 22:29
schestowitzDead for www.Jan 15 22:29 worksJan 15 22:29
schestowitzWhy?Jan 15 22:29
MinceRwell, not the websiteJan 15 22:30
MinceRmincer@stormwind(pts/6) % host boycottnovell.comJan 15 22:30 has address 15 22:30 mail is handled by 0 15 22:30
MinceRmincer@stormwind(pts/6) % host www.boycottnovell.comJan 15 22:30
MinceRHost not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)Jan 15 22:30
schestowitzWeridJan 15 22:31
schestowitzWeirdJan 15 22:31
schestowitzI'll make backup and try stuffJan 15 22:31
schestowitzCould it be the case that the host needed to get new DNS entries because I created a subsite?Jan 15 22:34
MinceRgnJan 15 22:43
*kentma1 has quit ("Leaving.")Jan 15 22:44
*kentma ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 15 22:44
schestowitzThis works: 15 22:46
schestowitzI don't get itJan 15 22:46
schestowitzIs a subsite starting with a "W" (wiki) forbidden?Jan 15 22:46
MinceRGive a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"Jan 15 22:46
*kentma1 ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 15 22:52
schestowitzIndia dumps 'donations' in India... Intel Capital Targeting India, Other Emerging Markets < >Jan 15 22:58
schestowitzARCHOS and Windows?!?!!? ARCHOS Enters Mobile Computing With Its Mini Laptop < >Jan 15 23:00
*kentma2 ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 15 23:03
*kentma1 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Jan 15 23:06
*kentma has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jan 15 23:08
schestowitzOpen source lessons in the Nortel bankruptcy "Huawei is continuing to move ahead wherever open source lets it, developing an Android phone for instance. It is even sneaking up on Cisco. Patents and corporate relationships are no longer enough in the telecom equipment space. For American companies to stage a comeback they will need high quality, low prices, and new customers here in the U.S."Jan 15 23:15
schestowitzFrom 15 23:15
*seller_liar has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Jan 15 23:17
*r0ver (n=r0ver@ has left #boycottnovellJan 15 23:25
*Casperin ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 15 23:37
schestowitzMicrosoft sharpens axe as PC sales drop? < >Jan 15 23:46
tessier_We've been hearing about this axe for weeks.Jan 15 23:47
schestowitzIt seems like creating the subsite "wiki" blew things up for and it never works for wiki.boyocttnovell.comJan 15 23:47
schestowitzTrying this with or worked fineJan 15 23:48
schestowitzDid I touch some special/exception case with "wiki" as subdomain"?Jan 15 23:48
schestowitztessier: yes, we've been hearing about it for a long time _with_ today listed as the Big DayJan 15 23:48
schestowitzAnd now they let WSJ publish an article about it... like an advance warning about an announcement. So the rumours were probably true.Jan 15 23:49
schestowitztessier: maybe you'll know.. I tried adding a subdomain to BN and I don't know why but does not resolve anymore (via DNS). works fine. I don't know how to contact the host, but I have cpanel.Jan 15 23:50
schestowitzMore MAFIAA moves to control the Internet: prepares for filesharing fracas < >Jan 15 23:52
tessier_schestowitz: Do you have an A record for www ?Jan 15 23:55
*tessier_ is very familiar with DNSJan 15 23:55
schestowitzwhat's that?Jan 15 23:55
tessier_An entry for www in DNSJan 15 23:55
schestowitzThere used to be oneJan 15 23:55
schestowitzBut how do I access it?Jan 15 23:55
tessier_I'm not that familiar with cpanel. I do dns with bind and zone files.Jan 15 23:56
schestowitzIt seems to have stopped working when I created (Without success) a subsite "wiki"Jan 15 23:56
tessier_wiki and www are both hostnames in the domain.Jan 15 23:56
schestowitzIf only I knew why it stopped working... I thought it was the "W" in wikiJan 15 23:56 itself usually has an A record pointing to the same place as wwwJan 15 23:56
tessier_The w in wiki should not matter or interfere with the wwwJan 15 23:57
schestowitzHere's an example.Jan 15 23:59
schestowitz 15 23:59

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