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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 8th, 2009 - Part 1


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torosin our country the rate of corruption is pretty highFeb 08 00:00
torosso open source is not very popular among politicians here...Feb 08 00:04
MinceRour education doesn't help eitherFeb 08 00:04
toroseducation would be the most importantFeb 08 00:05
torosand open source just fits so perfectly for thisFeb 08 00:05
schestowitztoros: it rarely is. Undercovers like undercovers.Feb 08 00:06
torostoday a modern linux distribution has everything what you need at a schoolFeb 08 00:06
schestowitzIt's like Harry Kissinger... the whole romanticism with mafia, secrecy, exchanging money and covering each others' back. FSF is their  antithesis.Feb 08 00:07
MinceRwe'd need competent, clueful teachersFeb 08 00:07
PetoKrausdid you guys see "organic software" firefox?Feb 08 00:07
MinceRbut we have very few of thoseFeb 08 00:07
schestowitzFree software would also enable Hungary as a leader in an emerging area. But multinational still roam the wild there, so it's not a priorityFeb 08 00:07
MinceRso all children see is m$ crapFeb 08 00:07
schestowitzYou'd think that countries want to promote local interests until you watch what was done in India... or now done in Iraq, which is run by a puppet regime.Feb 08 00:08
schestowitzThis one from rami looks like an FP: 08 00:09
schestowitzPetoKraus: what's that organic software thing?Feb 08 00:10
torosthe biggest problem is that I don't really see, how we could change this situationFeb 08 00:10
MinceRthat image has been posted a couple times alreadyFeb 08 00:10
ramischestowitz, is that firefox image old? I mean I think I saw it before?Feb 08 00:12
PetoKrausschestowitz: no idea 08 00:12
MinceRrami: it isFeb 08 00:14
MinceRgnFeb 08 00:18
schestowitztoros: that's the magic of it. THey make it hard to resist by dividing people upFeb 08 00:23
schestowitzrami: I recall seeing itFeb 08 00:23
PetoKrausHungary, frankly, can't be leader in the areaFeb 08 00:24
PetoKrausif you just compare their crumbling economyFeb 08 00:24
PetoKrauswith ours, it's pretty obviousFeb 08 00:24
PetoKraus(ours - Slovak)Feb 08 00:24
torosPetoKraus: that's true...Feb 08 00:25
toroswe had great chances 20 years agoFeb 08 00:25
PetoKrausyeahFeb 08 00:26
PetoKrausman, this flat looks so different when it's cleanFeb 08 00:26
torosbut now we could be happy if we don't fall back to much...Feb 08 00:26
PetoKrausit's gonna be tough with IMF on your neckFeb 08 00:27
twitteroh my, Houston courts shut down by malware, Maximus Windows dude... 08 00:28
torosSlovakia made a fantastic job in the last ten yearsFeb 08 00:28
PetoKrauswellFeb 08 00:28
PetoKrausyou might argue how much did certain things helpFeb 08 00:28
PetoKrausbut yes, flat tax and therefore attracting almost anyone helped a LOTFeb 08 00:29
PetoKraustwitter: yeah, that was nice one :DFeb 08 00:29
torosbut as I heard, the position of Microsoft there is just as solid as hereFeb 08 00:30
PetoKrauswell it's majority, that's trueFeb 08 00:30
PetoKrausbut firefox has almost 50% usageFeb 08 00:30
PetoKrausalmost everyone in the country heard of the word linux in some wayFeb 08 00:31
toroswe have here also a pretty active open source communityFeb 08 00:32
PetoKrausyeahFeb 08 00:32 has nearly 9000 registered usersFeb 08 00:32
twitterI'm amazed so many would register themselves in .hu - young people are so trusting.Feb 08 00:33
schestowitztwitter: "Houston, we got a virus!" :-)Feb 08 00:34
PetoKrausoh btwFeb 08 00:34
PetoKrausdo we know what's conficker doing?Feb 08 00:34
PetoKrausor is it still just sitting bomb?Feb 08 00:35
schestowitzsitting BIG bombFeb 08 00:35
schestowitzBut a fish in a big sea of hundreds of millions of zombies. Almost 99 out of 100 Windows PCs are potential zombies (ripe for hijacking). THat's how BAD it is.Feb 08 00:36
torosmaybe it is the real skynet? :)Feb 08 00:36
schestowitz:-)Feb 08 00:36
twittertick-a-tick-a-tick-a-tick-a-ticka-tick ...... BOOOOOOOOMMMMMMB!Feb 08 00:36
tandersontoros: not possibly...some people use linux :)Feb 08 00:37
PetoKrausschestowitz: that number is not trueFeb 08 00:37
schestowitz 08 00:37
twitteryou missed a few nines above. 99.99999999999999Feb 08 00:37
torosit will be funny, when it explodes :)Feb 08 00:37
PetoKrausnot every computer with windows is virus-riddledFeb 08 00:37
schestowitzPics: 08 00:37
tandersonyeah, I know what skynet isFeb 08 00:37
schestowitzPetoKraus: they are all spyware-riddled (Windows)Feb 08 00:37
tandersonbut taking over windows computers isn't taking over the worldFeb 08 00:38
twitteryes Peto, some Windows computers are in transit and have never been connected to a network for more than an hour or so.Feb 08 00:38
PetoKrausyeahFeb 08 00:38
schestowitzPetoKraus: source: Secunia, 2008Feb 08 00:38
PetoKrausand some of them are actually patchedFeb 08 00:38
twitterpatches are like tampons.Feb 08 00:38
PetoKrausanalystsFeb 08 00:38
schestowitzWaitFeb 08 00:38
schestowitzI don't like SecuniaFeb 08 00:38
PetoKrausyou know what I mean thoughFeb 08 00:38
schestowitzFear mongers vs Linux tooFeb 08 00:38
PetoKrausit's the same lie as saying there's only 1% marketshareFeb 08 00:39
PetoKrausof linuxFeb 08 00:39
schestowitzIt's here: 08 00:39
twitterno, Peto, I don't know how you can say Windows can be secured when it's never, ever happened.Feb 08 00:39
PetoKrausi am not saying it's securedFeb 08 00:39
PetoKrausi am saying, that there are people whose browsing habits and flaky security patchesFeb 08 00:39
schestowitz 08 00:39
schestowitz"More than 98% of Windows computers harbor at least one unpatched application, and nearly half contain 11 or more programs at risk from attack, a Danish security company said Wednesday. "Feb 08 00:39
PetoKraussort of drop the risk of infection downFeb 08 00:40
twitterdon't blame the users.  Windows is just built wrong.Feb 08 00:40
PetoKrausthat's different thingFeb 08 00:40
twittercondoms in a South African whore house reduce the spread of AIDS, but you have to wonder why you are there in the first place.Feb 08 00:40
schestowitztwitter: LOLFeb 08 00:40
PetoKrausall windows pc's are "potential" zombiesFeb 08 00:40
schestowitz"Don't you know you can't visit THAT page? For the last time.."Feb 08 00:41
schestowitz"Do you KNOW you can't just insert a USB device to you PCs????????????/////"Feb 08 00:41
PetoKrausyou know there is the difference between riskFeb 08 00:41
PetoKrausand actual infectionFeb 08 00:41
toroswe had a poll at, and it came out, that 66 percent of our users use adblocker... so I think we can triple the number of measured linux usersFeb 08 00:41
schestowitzAnd NoScript?Feb 08 00:42
PetoKrauswell i'm using adblock + noscript as well...Feb 08 00:42
schestowitzNet Applications measure some sort of click/ad referral in Win/Mac-oriented sitesFeb 08 00:42
PetoKrausi should really allow some pages I tend to visit more frequentlyFeb 08 00:42
twitterrisks that can be avoided are risks that should be avoided.  Using Windows is foolish, like walking a tightrope when you could get someplace by walking.Feb 08 00:42
schestowitzIt's rubbish, by design.Feb 08 00:42
PetoKraustwitter: that's completely different issueFeb 08 00:42
PetoKrausbut saying that 99% of Windows pc's ARE infected is bullshitFeb 08 00:43
PetoKrausyou can't know the numberFeb 08 00:43
schestowitzWIndows had security as an afterthoughtFeb 08 00:43
twitterM$ thinks it's about 66%.Feb 08 00:43
schestowitzReason was lack of foresight wrt networkFeb 08 00:43
PetoKrauswellFeb 08 00:43
torosin Hungary it is measured with adsFeb 08 00:43
schestowitzSee it in their presentation slides (Comes)Feb 08 00:43
PetoKrausi would be surprised if there was security at allFeb 08 00:43
PetoKraustoday I had a systemFeb 08 00:43
twitterI'm not sure how the others are kept safe, so it would be better to avoid Windows all together.Feb 08 00:44
torosby a company called adverticum (the biggest banner hosting site)Feb 08 00:44
schestowitztoros: bad measureFeb 08 00:44
PetoKrausand i couldn't force it to create user and give the user existing directory in Documents and SettingsFeb 08 00:44
PetoKrausi mean, for goodness sakeFeb 08 00:44
schestowitztoros: it assumes populations are equally distributed wrt  habitsFeb 08 00:44
PetoKrausAND the funny thing isFeb 08 00:44
PetoKrausit enables you to make more than one Admin userFeb 08 00:44
PetoKrausWTFFeb 08 00:44
schestowitzIt's like comparisong market share of Firefox amongst Linux users and Windows usersFeb 08 00:44
twitterWindows is simply broken.  It is irresponsible to recommend it.Feb 08 00:45
PetoKrausyesFeb 08 00:45
PetoKrausthat's why i automatically preinstall Firefox and Openoffice on every PC i touchFeb 08 00:45
PetoKraustoday i had this weird caseFeb 08 00:46
schestowitztwitter: they get paid to recommend itFeb 08 00:46
PetoKrausthe machine would boot upFeb 08 00:46
twitterI assume Windows machines are owned.  Bill Gates has whatever I put into it if it is not cracked, but there's a good chance multiple cracker gangs own it too.Feb 08 00:46
schestowitzIn Windows, "recommends" = "Take bribe"Feb 08 00:46
PetoKrausit even respondedFeb 08 00:46
PetoKrausbut the shell didn't at allFeb 08 00:46
PetoKrausi could run apps on the desktop and interact with themFeb 08 00:47
PetoKrausbut anything on the "shelf" including start menu was locked for like 10 minutesFeb 08 00:47
PetoKrausand that was freshly (3 months) reinstalled systemFeb 08 00:47
schestowitz 08 00:47
PetoKrausyeahFeb 08 00:47
PetoKraussometimes i want to just slap my boss for spreading FUDFeb 08 00:48
PetoKrauslike "your printer will not work under linux"Feb 08 00:48
twitterMy printer works well.Feb 08 00:48
schestowitz*LOL* It looks like it says "I'm Bach"Feb 08 00:48
twitterHe must have bought the wrong printer.Feb 08 00:48
PetoKrausnah, he just doesn't knowFeb 08 00:48
schestowitzWindows supports printers??? I thought you need to obtain drivers.. :-)Feb 08 00:49
PetoKraustoday my friend pointed out a nice parallelFeb 08 00:49
torosMicrosoft has much more power and might, that any other company or dictator had before in the history. People today use their computer for nearly everything...Feb 08 00:49
PetoKrauseverytime someone comes in with problem to our shopFeb 08 00:49
PetoKrauswindows relatedFeb 08 00:49
PetoKrausi take out linux livecdFeb 08 00:49
PetoKrausand fix it :DFeb 08 00:49
torosand who controls the computers, can control the peoleFeb 08 00:50
torosand that's frighteningFeb 08 00:50
twitterYes it is frightening.Feb 08 00:50
twitterImagine the power to annoy that Bill Gates has.Feb 08 00:50
schestowitzPetoKraus: the FUD goes like, "Linux users never have an issue because they know what they do."Feb 08 00:50
schestowitzNot because it JUST WORKS.Feb 08 00:50
PetoKrausyeahFeb 08 00:50
twitterHe can find out who he does not like and learn all sorts of things about them.Feb 08 00:51
twitterHe knows where you shop and can have people make sure the things you like don't make it to the shelf.Feb 08 00:51
twitterHe knows your insurance company and can flip bits in their database so that your bills go unpaid.Feb 08 00:51
schestowitzGoogle controls your data, but not your physical PCFeb 08 00:51
PetoKrausschestowitz: you never knowFeb 08 00:52
PetoKrausi don't trust anything closedFeb 08 00:52
twitterIf Google has Windows on their desktops, Bill Gates controls Google.Feb 08 00:52
schestowitzMicrosoft can suck (pull from PCs), Google can only have stuff 'pushed' onto it (passive, not consumption)Feb 08 00:52
twitterGoogle has sucked up a few M$ execs and employees, right?  Their computers are owned even if they are loyal to Google.Feb 08 00:52
schestowitzMicrosoft's puppet Forrester attacked Google just yesterday (ish)Feb 08 00:53
PetoKrausthe only thing which is closed source on my 2 pc's, except wireless ucodes and driver firmwares, is one instance of flash i am not usingFeb 08 00:53
schestowitzSomething about SE fidelityFeb 08 00:53
schestowitzLet me find itFeb 08 00:53
schestowitz 08 00:53
schestowitz"A new survey by Forrester Research concludes that such a turnabout could  happen again, despite the solid and growing lead Google maintains in the  search market. "Feb 08 00:53
schestowitzMy response: Did Microsoft -bribe- pay Forrester for this one as well? This sounds like the anti-Linux studies Microsoft bought from Forrester, only directed at Google this time around.Feb 08 00:54
torosMicrosoft's market share is like a loaded gun in the hand: you don't have to shot it to control people...Feb 08 00:54
schestowitzI also wrote: In case it's needed, I have a heap of examples to support the bribes links between those two. Forrester: rape us, corrupt us, pay us to do kinky things to your competitors.Feb 08 00:54
twitterThe screenplay to the Matrix looked a little further into control of people by control of computers than the movie did.  It included a nifty little deal where Neo gets the Brownies to unlock a car.Feb 08 00:54
schestowitztoros: bad for miliatires too. Several move to LinuxFeb 08 00:54
schestowitzHad the US gone to war, it could force MS to suspend all PCs in enemy linesFeb 08 00:55
schestowitzTurkey, Germany and China are already drifting away from Windows, maybe for this reason. Russia too...Feb 08 00:55
twitter"They just do what they are told, they don't think about it.  They are like part of a machine.  If you control the machine, you control them."Feb 08 00:55
twitterThere are worse things you can do to the enemy's computers than turn them off.Feb 08 00:56
PetoKrausright, third load of clothes successfully washedFeb 08 00:56
PetoKraustime to sleepFeb 08 00:56
torosfor me tooFeb 08 00:56
twitterYou can listen in on their conversations and use the information to destroy them, as the US did to U-Boats in the second world war.Feb 08 00:56
torosIt's 2:00 a.m. here...Feb 08 00:56
twitterGood night Peto and toros. Sweet dreams.Feb 08 00:56
torosIt was a great talkFeb 08 00:57
torosbyeFeb 08 00:57
PetoKrausit's not done yetFeb 08 00:58
PetoKraus:/Feb 08 00:58
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schestowitzHeh.Feb 08 01:00
PetoKrausmy neighbours would have been pissed offFeb 08 01:00
PetoKrausbut they are partyingFeb 08 01:00
PetoKraus:)Feb 08 01:00
schestowitzPartyingFeb 08 01:02
PetoKrausyeahFeb 08 01:03
PetoKrausoverratedFeb 08 01:03
schestowitzLet me check the definition as I am curiousFeb 08 01:03
schestowitzHold on.Feb 08 01:03
schestowitzit's alot to do with imposed perceptions, so I want to see it formalisedFeb 08 01:03
schestowitz 08 01:03
schestowitzOK, so let's see if beverage is what a party comprises as a matter of 'norm' :-)Feb 08 01:03
schestowitz"A party is a gathering of persons who have been invited by a host for the purposes of socializing, conversation, and recreation. A party will typically feature eating and drinking, and often music and dancing as well."Feb 08 01:04
schestowitzOKFeb 08 01:04
PetoKrausrightFeb 08 01:04
schestowitzSo what do we have here? It's like the equivalent of tribal dances, no?Feb 08 01:04
PetoKrauswhat we usually throw is dinner partyFeb 08 01:04
schestowitzWhen does a dinner become a party?Feb 08 01:04
schestowitzIf/once you put wine on the table :-)Feb 08 01:05
PetoKrausjust read the definition, royFeb 08 01:05
twitterwhen you have good guestsFeb 08 01:05
PetoKrausit's on the same page ;)Feb 08 01:05
schestowitzWhat if the guests are not good?Feb 08 01:05
twitterit can be a boreFeb 08 01:05
schestowitzDoes it qualify as "party"?Feb 08 01:05
PetoKrausthat's why you pick your guestsFeb 08 01:05
schestowitzHow about the phrase "hanging out"?Feb 08 01:05
schestowitzOr "going out"?Feb 08 01:05
PetoKrausthat means casual sexFeb 08 01:05
PetoKraus;)Feb 08 01:05
schestowitzic....Feb 08 01:05
PetoKraus* out with, ofc.Feb 08 01:06
twitterthere's nothing wrong with having a good time.Feb 08 01:06
PetoKraussureFeb 08 01:06
PetoKrausthere's nothing bad to not employ these liberal practices thoughFeb 08 01:06
PetoKrausi'm too conservative for thisFeb 08 01:06
schestowitzI am joking here.Feb 08 01:06
PetoKraus;)Feb 08 01:06
schestowitzIt's curious when you look at patterns of behaviour as though you are an outsiderFeb 08 01:07
schestowitzWhere's that funny video I'm looking for...?Feb 08 01:07
PetoKraussureFeb 08 01:07
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PetoKrausthere was this nice videoFeb 08 01:07
twitterpreconceived notions can be harmful ... like the notions booze companies try to put into you.Feb 08 01:07
PetoKrauswhere a guy told another one how he would really really shag that one girlFeb 08 01:07
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PetoKrausand it turned out to be the other guy's daughter, who's mom was his new employerFeb 08 01:08
PetoKraus:DFeb 08 01:08
twittertut tut...Feb 08 01:08
twitterthat's called being a penis.Feb 08 01:08
schestowitzI can't find it now. Doug mailed it to me in December or so.Feb 08 01:09
schestowitzThat video of a Kenyan guy analysing Bavarian behaviourFeb 08 01:09
*PetoKraus np: The Alan Parsons Project - Psychobabble (Eye In The Sky)Feb 08 01:10
twitterI grew up in New Orleans.  I've seen a lot of strange party ideas.  I've had a few bad ideas of my own but generally had a good time.Feb 08 01:10
PetoKrausthis song is absolutely amazing :)Feb 08 01:10
twitterPeople getting together and sharing, it's good even when it's bad.Feb 08 01:11
PetoKrausI'm too scared to runFeb 08 01:13
PetoKrausAnd I'm too weak to fightFeb 08 01:13
PetoKrausBut I don't care it's allFeb 08 01:13
PetoKrausPsychobabble rap to meFeb 08 01:13
PetoKraus:)Feb 08 01:13
schestowitzIs sharing a paperbook  like a novel a criminal offense?Feb 08 01:14
schestowitzLike giving it to your sibling?Feb 08 01:14
twitterno, like it's bad if some of the people are abusive.Feb 08 01:19
twittereven then, a party can be good if you let the abusive person know that abuse is wrong.Feb 08 01:21
twitterwell, gotta go.Feb 08 01:25
schestowitzl8ersFeb 08 01:27
schestowitzStupid journo (lackey) writes: "The company has done a reasonably good job developing Windows 7, according to early beta testers. " I told him: You mean, the ones Microsoft bribed with laptops? Don't accept 'consensus' do blindly.  You'll be bamboozled. Vista too seemed exciting to journalists in 2006 ("Show us your wow!," remember?)Feb 08 01:39
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schestowitzMicrosoft harms DNS again.... (OpenDNS rolls out Conficker tracking, blocking)Feb 08 01:45
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schestowitzOh Gawd...Feb 08 01:56
schestowitztwitter: check this out: 08 01:56
schestowitzSlashdot made an FP out of this site when you submitted and they seem to have snuck in a VERY old article into Slashdot now... one that they nicked from LXFFeb 08 01:57
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schestowitz "This. Is. ALPHA! [This post was supposed to be out yesterday, but somehow I managed to brush my touchpad the wrong way and... well, the dog ate my homework. Or WordPress did. Either way, sorry about the lateness of the hour, and all that. Revised now for more contemporary enjoyment. -- Ed.]"Feb 08 02:08
schestowitzThat's the current leader of Fedora. One other Mandriva hacker has just joined Red Hat and he's moving to centos.. 08 02:11
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schestowitzgnFeb 08 02:59
oiaohmNothing is as much fun as server eating your homeworkFeb 08 04:21
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Omar87hi, schestowitzFeb 08 07:06
acidburnhelloFeb 08 07:06
Omar87acidburn: HiFeb 08 07:06
Omar87You might wanna see this: 08 07:07
acidburnhi imarFeb 08 07:07
acidburnsry,omarFeb 08 07:08
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acidburnhello there zerocoolFeb 08 07:08
zer0c00lacidburn: welcome to boycottnovellFeb 08 07:11
acidburnthank uzerocoolFeb 08 07:11
zer0c00lacidburn:thanks for what?Feb 08 07:14
acidburnfor the welcome,duhFeb 08 07:14
acidburncourtesy :PFeb 08 07:14
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acidburnhiFeb 08 08:55
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schestowitzMorning.Feb 08 09:32
trmancoMicrosoft's secret deals on open source:,1...Feb 08 09:53
schestowitzI think I saw thatFeb 08 09:53
schestowitzI have another one on itFeb 08 09:53
schestowitzIt shows the harms of the Novell deal which started all these extortions.Feb 08 09:54
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MinceRgeekingsFeb 08 11:35
schestowitzSomething has been hammering on BN since yesterday...Feb 08 11:48
schestowitz99.226.186.38 - 21509 pages! Is this an archiver?Feb 08 11:49
schestowitz 08 11:49
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PetoKrausschestowitz: 08 11:59
schestowitzI can't see it among recent visitor to check HTTP headersFeb 08 12:02
schestowitz┌─(roy@localhost Sun, 08 Feb 09)─—————— ——————————————─(/home/roy/Desktop)────┐Feb 08 12:04
schestowitz└─(12:04 $)─> gunzip 08 12:04
schestowitz└─(12:05 $)─> grep      Feb 08 12:05
schestowitz99.226.186.38 - - [07/Feb/2009:21:27:52 -0500] "GET /wp2pdf/wp2pdf.php?p=1245 HTTP/1.1" 200 13982 "" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 6.0; Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1) ; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.0.04506)"Feb 08 12:05
schestowitzIt's just crawling all over the place. Maybe a zombie?Feb 08 12:06
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EruaranhelloFeb 08 12:22
schestowitz Man With Microsoft Tattoo Laid Off, Still Lives By Company MantraFeb 08 12:23
schestowitzHey, Eruaran Feb 08 12:23
EruaranM$ latest propaganda onslaught is on I seeFeb 08 12:24
EruaranI've noticed they're banging the drum loudly now, attacking Linux on netbooksFeb 08 12:25
schestowitzAny new stuff?Feb 08 12:25
Eruaranyou prolly posted themFeb 08 12:25
schestowitzYes, it's like the "NC is Dead" tourFeb 08 12:25
schestowitzMicrosoft operates like an unaccountable totality...details here: 08 12:26
schestowitzI am working on another 66-page document about their criminal behavious, which is endorsed by Bill Gates. That too sheds light on how they fight Linux.Feb 08 12:27
EruaranHave you heard about Windows 7 "starter" edition ?Feb 08 12:28
EruaranSlated to be installed on netbooks ?Feb 08 12:28
schestowitzYesFeb 08 12:28
schestowitzVapourware exposedFeb 08 12:28
EruaranIts patheticFeb 08 12:28
schestowitzI am concerned about the behaviour, not the exampleFeb 08 12:28
schestowitzI'd rather expose the things I've been seeingFeb 08 12:28
EruaranyesFeb 08 12:28
schestowitzI'm losing hope for this systemFeb 08 12:28
EruaranI have been discouraged latelyFeb 08 12:29
schestowitzI've just found Reuters quoting a crony on Yahoo-GoogleFeb 08 12:29
schestowitzThis is SICKFeb 08 12:29
schestowitzNader and even Ron Paul say the truth and they get attacked by the pressFeb 08 12:29
schestowitzOnly the darlings of white-collar criminals can endure 'election' where the interests are nothing to do with candidatesFeb 08 12:29
EruaranI'm considering pre-installing Linux on all or most new desktop systems along side Windows installsFeb 08 12:30
schestowitzLook at THIS: 08 12:30
schestowitzIt's SICK.Feb 08 12:31
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EruaranI don't care if its just a 20GB "backup", I want to see it on peoples systemsFeb 08 12:31
schestowitzLike with phramas, they ask and plead for subsidies for themselves to cash in public moneyFeb 08 12:31
schestowitzThis is a well-known scamFeb 08 12:31
schestowitzThey preach need for defense to feed technology (loot the public) and then say things like "R&D", which actually is bollox because studies have shown that this is just used for MARKETINGFeb 08 12:32
schestowitzThe public is ask to sponsored its own brainwash under guise like "security" (for tech) or "cancer" (for big pharmas)Feb 08 12:32
schestowitzAnd the Gates trolls is now feeding himself under "charity" guideFeb 08 12:32
schestowitz*guiseFeb 08 12:33
Eruaransounds like they're looking for a bailoutFeb 08 12:33
schestowitzFeeding the big pharamas with government-imposed monopolies (patents) by pretending to contribute, then asking governments to chip in and FUND the pharmas his FOUNDRY is an INVESTOR in. He makes money from sentimental blackmail and the press refuses to see this.Feb 08 12:34
schestowitzThis is very, very, very SICK.Feb 08 12:34
EruaranThis is why the US economy is collapsingFeb 08 12:34
oiaohmThe are no rules in love war and business.Feb 08 12:34
oiaohmthere are no rules in love war and businessFeb 08 12:34
schestowitzI also see the self-appointed economic 'export'Feb 08 12:35
schestowitz*expert': 08 12:35
oiaohmThe goverments of the world are idiotsFeb 08 12:35
EruaranEvery time a country is an attractive credit playground where banks and investors around the world invest in it and feed the credit monster - that country economically blows up. This is what is happening to the US right now.Feb 08 12:35
oiaohmCurrent money mess is caused by debt.Feb 08 12:35
schestowitzPrelude to either looting or opportunity to rob people of their rights. Classic case of invoking "emergency" to justify one's own exploitation of the systemFeb 08 12:36
oiaohmJust they did not know they were owning.Feb 08 12:36
schestowitzYesFeb 08 12:36
schestowitzMaster Greenspan: spend, spend.Feb 08 12:36
oiaohmSolution to current money problems is deal with public debt.Feb 08 12:36
EruaranAustralia is much better offFeb 08 12:36
EruaraneconomicallyFeb 08 12:37
schestowitzLike an obese man  being told to eat  more for the misery to go awayFeb 08 12:37
Eruarannot immune, but better offFeb 08 12:37
schestowitzYesFeb 08 12:37
oiaohmIe if person is lossing all there income to credt cards and gambling there is no money free for businesses.Feb 08 12:37
schestowitzMicrosoft digital ad shop Razorfish lays off 70 < >\Feb 08 12:37
oiaohmAustralia is heading into the grave yard very fast.Feb 08 12:37
schestowitzoiaohm: it doesn't matter to them if they are debtFeb 08 12:37
schestowitzThey much public resourcesFeb 08 12:37
oiaohmYes it does in time.Feb 08 12:37
EruaranAustralia is not in debt, they're debating on spending up the surplus and putting the country in deficit in order to stave off the spectre of mass unemploymentFeb 08 12:37
schestowitzThat is, the private company feed their founders at the expense of the broad 'economy'Feb 08 12:38
oiaohmDebts have to be paid back.Feb 08 12:38
oiaohmsooner or latter.Feb 08 12:38
oiaohmThat is the complete problem in this system.Feb 08 12:38
oiaohmIt will get really out of control if for colosures start on countries.Feb 08 12:38
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, CHina or Dubai will buy GM, GE, Citigroup etc. for pennies one day, if there's anything left of these.Feb 08 12:38
oiaohmPlease notes that has happened in the past.Feb 08 12:38
schestowitzYesFeb 08 12:39
schestowitzAnd no lessons learnedFeb 08 12:39
schestowitzPeople have short memory spans.Feb 08 12:39
oiaohmWe are not fully out of control of yet.Feb 08 12:39
oiaohmSpending more money is not the solution.Feb 08 12:39
EruaranOn one side, the opposition doesn't want the government to spend. But conversely, the commercial economy is convulsing... surpluses are saved up for emergencies like this one.Feb 08 12:39
oiaohmMaking the money currently in the system stay it it longer is the solution.Feb 08 12:39
schestowitzThey resort to fashionable consumption because commercials and consumerism trump logic.Feb 08 12:39
oiaohmJust lets say you cut off credit card debt.Feb 08 12:40
schestowitz"Out of funds? Get another credit card!"Feb 08 12:40
oiaohmHow much of a boost do you think that would give.Feb 08 12:40
oiaohmCredit card you have to pay the extreamly high interest.Feb 08 12:40
oiaohmOr go under.Feb 08 12:40
schestowitzEruaran: that why they embark on expansionism.Feb 08 12:40
EruaranIf the government does not spend to help business, then businesses will slash and burn, meaning mass unemployment. People can argue their ideology all they like. The fact is, here in Australia at least, that spending the surplus may be cheaper than paying unemployment benefits out to millions of unemployed people.Feb 08 12:41
schestowitzThey take the suffering elsewhere to maintain domination... after the extermination of independence in America in the 80sFeb 08 12:41
oiaohmEruaran goverment does not need to spend.Feb 08 12:41
oiaohmInstead they need to keep money cycling.Feb 08 12:41
Eruaranthats the problemFeb 08 12:41
Eruaranit isntFeb 08 12:41
oiaohmWhat they are doing is like putting money in a bucket with millions of holes.Feb 08 12:42
schestowitzGovernment = corporationsFeb 08 12:42
oiaohmIt is not staying in the market.Feb 08 12:42
Eruaranwell known nation wide businesses are already going underFeb 08 12:42
schestowitzYou'd fool yourself if you thought they don't prioritise the managers and their bonuses.Feb 08 12:42
schestowitzThat's why they have things like bailoutsFeb 08 12:42
EruaranIts a cycleFeb 08 12:42
schestowitzThe money is better spent in other waysFeb 08 12:42
EruaranThis is a particularly bad oneFeb 08 12:42
oiaohmBLocking credit cards and other major leachers of free money will release money to cycle.Feb 08 12:42
schestowitzBut the public gets no vote on itFeb 08 12:42
oiaohmRemember banks are not loaning to each other either that much.Feb 08 12:43
schestowitzPeople like Murdoch and Ballmer get to say what's done to resolve the crisis folks like them createrFeb 08 12:43
oiaohmSo market is in a stalled state.Feb 08 12:43
Eruaranthey dont trust each otherFeb 08 12:43
Eruaranyou cant get money flowing if banks dont trust anyoneFeb 08 12:43
oiaohmPeople are in fear so are paying of there debtsFeb 08 12:43
oiaohmSo no matter how much money you throw in at moment its all going to vaporise.Feb 08 12:44
EruaranI saw an extraordinary ad on tv last nightFeb 08 12:44
oiaohmIn a few months.Feb 08 12:44
Eruaransome place was advertising the usual 'buy now pay later' credit thingFeb 08 12:44
Eruaran24 months interest free and all thatFeb 08 12:44
Eruaranbut...Feb 08 12:44
oiaohmDeal with what is causing it to vaporise.Feb 08 12:44
Eruaranthey were advertising, "no credit checks"Feb 08 12:44
Eruaranthats desperateFeb 08 12:44
amarsh04whilst Dame Elizabeth Murdoch had her 100th birthday, Victoria had their worst bushfires on recordFeb 08 12:45
oiaohmThen concider throwning money in.Feb 08 12:45
Eruaranoiaohm: yes, some credit company like GE Finance or something like thatFeb 08 12:45
Eruaranoiaohm: oh wait... isn't GE in trouble already ?Feb 08 12:45
oiaohmBetween bushfires and floods here we should have a large insurance money entering Australia.Feb 08 12:46
oiaohmThe catch is making sure it don't vaporise.Feb 08 12:46
Eruaranthe bushfires have been baFeb 08 12:46
EruaranbadFeb 08 12:46
oiaohmIts a really bad wind that brings no good.Feb 08 12:46
Eruaranbushfires in victoria and flooding in queenslandFeb 08 12:46
oiaohmthey have unlocked a lot of money that otherwise would not have been freed.Feb 08 12:46
oiaohmSo nature causes stimulase packageFeb 08 12:47
EruaranI could walk outside on Saturday and see the haze of the bushfires in the distanceFeb 08 12:47
EruaranDespite M$ dirty tactics and propaganda, our customers are interested in Linux systemsFeb 08 12:47
schestowitzEruaran: yes, GE is in troubleFeb 08 12:48
EruaranIt makes $300 difference to the priceFeb 08 12:48
schestowitzMy sister works for GE (*cough cough**)Feb 08 12:48
EruaranAnd customers are interested in $300 difference in priceFeb 08 12:48
schestowitzVista 3 should be the name of the new one..Feb 08 12:48
schestowitzVIsta 2 could simply imply 2 processesFeb 08 12:49
schestowitzIt's like Vista, but hey.. it can do 3 tasks... that's more than the iPhoneFeb 08 12:49
oiaohmDown turns alway have helped open source.Feb 08 12:49
oiaohmremember before the dot com bust.Feb 08 12:49
EruaranWe put a demo on in the store so people can see and try out a Linux systemFeb 08 12:49
oiaohmOpen source really was just a odd ball thing.Feb 08 12:49
EruaranThis makes a world of differenceFeb 08 12:50
EruaranIts suddeenly not so scary for the customerFeb 08 12:50
oiaohmKDE 4.x is slowly coming into shape.Feb 08 12:50
schestowitzIBMisation of Microsoft: 08 12:50
EruaranComplete equipped system, no crippleware, no trialware, no viruses, no spyware, loads of apps, OpenOffice, speed and stability, not hard to use - $300 cheaper...Feb 08 12:51
EruaranLinux is becoming more compelling for peopleFeb 08 12:51
schestowitz"Under program, customers will get credits if no support response within 30 minutes"  Sounds like Red Hat/Oracle/IBM... is Microsoft realising that giving WIndows for free and offering support is their way forward?Feb 08 12:51
schestowitzUS$250Feb 08 12:53
schestowitz 08 12:53
schestowitz"It’s not quite as compelling as the $178 Dell Mini 9 from last week, but it’s definitely a better deal overall: Newegg has the Acer Aspire One Netbook for $239.99 shipped. It’s new, not a refurb, and there are no rebates."Feb 08 12:53
*Omar871 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Feb 08 12:53
EruaranMicrosoft wants people to believe nobody wants Linux on netbooksFeb 08 12:56
Eruaranthey blow out of all proportion HP for example, dropping certain Linux models, as if HP is quitting Linux on netbooks... but they aren't, they are dumping SUSE and releasing new systems that are Ubuntu with a custom HP interfaceFeb 08 12:57
EruaranThe big manufacturers are still learning what works and what doesnt with customersFeb 08 12:58
schestowitzEruaran: they have done this for a while.Feb 08 12:58
EruaranFor those who have had problems, the problem hasn't been Linux, its been the wrong implementationFeb 08 12:58
schestowitzThey also 'joice-jack'Feb 08 12:58
schestowitz*voiceFeb 08 12:58
schestowitzEruaran: what do you propose as ways of coutering this?Feb 08 12:59
PetoKraustimeFeb 08 12:59
schestowitzSome people tirelessly say "no, you're wrong"Feb 08 12:59
schestowitzActually, PetoKraus see this BS at work tooFeb 08 12:59
Eruaranschestowitz: better implementationsFeb 08 12:59
PetoKrausschestowitz: sooner or later these folks will die offFeb 08 13:00
schestowitzMy method is different. I try to show the internal mechanism to impose this disinformation, some of which is criminal, AFAIKFeb 08 13:00
schestowitzMicrosoft also stood trial for vapourware tacticsFeb 08 13:01
Eruaranschestowitz: What is most popular with users already, will work better on netbooks (Ubuntu is better than Suse for example). A simple interface that isnt suffocating (Dell has done a good job in this respect, their Ubuntu netbooks are a winner).Feb 08 13:01
schestowitzThis came from the top, people like Gates and Myhrvold. They don't see rules as applicable to them.Feb 08 13:01
schestowitzEruaran: yes, looks like it, but they are facing an army of bullies that smile (Microsoft+ecosystem)Feb 08 13:02
schestowitzI'll expose some docs shortly.Feb 08 13:02
schestowitzThe peril is, well... how do you get enough people to become aware of this?Feb 08 13:02
schestowitz "I am not going to debate the credit rating of GE, nor will I discuss the layoffs at Microsoft. These are happening to every other company too, and the risk already is built into share prices of these companies."Feb 08 13:03
EruaranI've seen HP's interface for their own Ubuntu based netbooks its shiny and black but its suffocating and inflexible. It will ultimately be a failure. They could learn more from looking at what Dell has done with Ubuntu, a simple and enjoyable netbook interface (which uses compiz), but one which is easily set aside for a normal Ubuntu desktop if you want, there's no suffocation, only convenience.Feb 08 13:03
oiaohmcompiz is troubleFeb 08 13:04
oiaohmSame with pulseaudioFeb 08 13:05
EruaranarghFeb 08 13:05
Eruaranpulseaudio is horribleFeb 08 13:05
oiaohmafter disinfecting ubuntu of its evils its nice.Feb 08 13:05
Eruaranwhy did they put that in thereFeb 08 13:05
schestowitzEruaran: the HP UI is not for 'US'Feb 08 13:06
schestowitz*'Us'Feb 08 13:06
oiaohmHave to have Vista's per application audio volume controls you know EruaranFeb 08 13:06
oiaohmBasically ubuntu guys are partly nuts.Feb 08 13:06
Eruaranschestowitz: trueFeb 08 13:06
schestowitzoiaohm: pulseaudio is OK for me.. in MandrivaFeb 08 13:06
EruaranI read what Aaron Seigo had to say about PulseaudioFeb 08 13:06
schestowitzI had my first issue with it just days ago, so I needed to restartFeb 08 13:07
EruaranI agreed with him entirelyFeb 08 13:07
EruaranPulseaudio causes daily sound dropouts and problems on my systemFeb 08 13:07
EruaranKill Pulseaudio, and things start working againFeb 08 13:07
oiaohmschestowitz: been lucky.Feb 08 13:09
oiaohmpulseaudio is like compiz people go months without problems.Feb 08 13:09
oiaohmThen it decides to go boom.Feb 08 13:09
EruaranIve never had major issues with compiz... touch woodFeb 08 13:09
oiaohmI haveFeb 08 13:10
oiaohmCompiz + ATI particularly bad.Feb 08 13:10
EruaranahFeb 08 13:10
EruaranI have nvidiaFeb 08 13:10
oiaohmCompiz + Nvidia stable.Feb 08 13:10
EruaranI was gonna switch back to KDE todayFeb 08 13:10
oiaohmAnything using a DRI 1 style video card driver don't run compiz on if you don't want it returned.Feb 08 13:10
EruaranBut I was too lazy and slept insteadFeb 08 13:10
schestowitzHeh. 08 13:10
schestowitz"The Association of Washington Business and the Washington Roundtable, whose members include Microsoft and Boeing) are against Gov. Gregoire's plan, and their fear is that if unemployment continues to rise, they believe it will cause higher unemployment taxes in 2010 and beyond."Feb 08 13:10
schestowitzYeah, let Microsoft et al decide 'for the public'Feb 08 13:11
oiaohmIe VIA INTEL ATI all effected by DRI 1 defects.Feb 08 13:11
oiaohmI have more work now than I had 6 months ago.Feb 08 13:11
oiaohmMost of the issue I am doing different work to what I did 6 months ago.Feb 08 13:12
oiaohmThis is part of the issue people cannot adpet to the problems.Feb 08 13:12
schestowitzSince when has pulseaudio been in most distros? Fedora 9 first..?Feb 08 13:13
schestowitzI think Red Hat hired its devFeb 08 13:13
oiaohmFedora is secoundFeb 08 13:14
oiaohmUbuntu had it first.Feb 08 13:14
oiaohmYes case of Ubuntu brain fried is Pulseaudio..Feb 08 13:14
amarsh04back soon, trying to get to the bottom of okular crashingFeb 08 13:15
*amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Feb 08 13:16
schestowitzPulseaudio's been good to me.Feb 08 13:17
schestowitzrami had problems with it (see last night's log)Feb 08 13:17
schestowitzHe uses UbuntuFeb 08 13:17
trmancoUbuntu + Compiz Fusion is stable at least for me and my cousinFeb 08 13:19
trmancoI'm using OSS drivers, my cousin is using the proprietary blobFeb 08 13:19
schestowitzSame here.Feb 08 13:20
trmancoboth of our chips are R430 basedFeb 08 13:21
oiaohmI have been in the winehq forum long enough.Feb 08 13:23
*amarsh04 ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 08 13:23
oiaohmI have had thousands of people tell me compiz is stable on Dri 1 hardware only to have to say sorry later when its malfunctioned.Feb 08 13:24
oiaohmIts out comes are nice mixed bag.Feb 08 13:24
oiaohmeverything from interface completely dieing to opengl programs failing to start and sometimes just disappearing windows without reason.Feb 08 13:25
oiaohmThis has nothing to do with distribution.  Its everything to do with the way DRI 1 is designed.  Only 1 opengl application at a time on DRI 1.Feb 08 13:25
oiaohmWith compiz + a opengl program you end up with two that equals big bad problems.Feb 08 13:26
oiaohmIts a race condition.Feb 08 13:26
oiaohmSo its completely random and timeing linked.  Basically running compiz on DRI 1 hardware is playing loto it will break question is how long will your luck hold.Feb 08 13:27
PetoKrausi mean - per app audio setting is niceFeb 08 13:31
PetoKrausbut most of the apps already have software volume controlFeb 08 13:31
oiaohmAt what price PetoKrausFeb 08 13:31
oiaohmCrashing audio stack worth it?Feb 08 13:31
PetoKrausnoFeb 08 13:31
PetoKrausdid you read what i wrote?Feb 08 13:31
schestowitzI'm sure it'll matureFeb 08 13:32
schestowitzMaybe merged too soon by CanonicalFeb 08 13:32
PetoKrausmaybeFeb 08 13:32
PetoKrausi don't think that it's a good idea to put this in the stackFeb 08 13:32
Eruarancomplicated = badFeb 08 13:33
PetoKrausproper apps have software volume control already (smplayer, gstreamer-based quodlibet etc)Feb 08 13:33
Eruaranits unnecessaryFeb 08 13:33
amarsh04a friendly kde person suggested running "kbuildsycoca4 --noincremental" as user which stopped okular crashingFeb 08 13:33
amarsh04I still like having a sound card with hardware mixer and hardware MIDI synthFeb 08 13:34
Eruarankde persons are always friendly ;)Feb 08 13:34
PetoKrausyeahFeb 08 13:34
amarsh04okular is still *way* slower than kpdfFeb 08 13:34
Eruaranyou think so ?Feb 08 13:35
EruaranI haven't noticedFeb 08 13:35
PetoKrauswell the whole KDE4.2 runs slower on my machine than almost anything else (incl. W7); i hope they'll get the performance upFeb 08 13:35
EruaranI like being able to annotate pdf files without having to use acrobatFeb 08 13:35
*oiaohm_ ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 08 13:35
EruaranPetoKraus: thats wierdFeb 08 13:36
EruaranRuns fast on everything I've had it onFeb 08 13:36
PetoKrausmaybe it's cause of nouveauFeb 08 13:36
Eruarandriver ?Feb 08 13:36
PetoKrausyFeb 08 13:36
Eruaranthat'd be itFeb 08 13:37
*oiaohm has quit (Nick collision from services.)Feb 08 13:37
PetoKrausbut anyway, it's way slower than E17...Feb 08 13:37
oiaohm_nouveau is highly ustableFeb 08 13:37
EruaranI like E17Feb 08 13:37
PetoKrausoiaohm_: yes, but it's still better than nvFeb 08 13:37
oiaohm_Anything is better than nvFeb 08 13:37
oiaohm_My Nvidia card here does not work with nv driver.Feb 08 13:37
EruaranI'm still using Nvidia's blobFeb 08 13:38
Eruaran180.xFeb 08 13:38
PetoKrausi'd have to use the legacy 96.x oneFeb 08 13:38
oiaohm_vesa works Nvidia blob works nouveau fires up.   Nv pure random crap drawn all over screen.Feb 08 13:38
amarsh04just trying the file open dialogue again... any file dialogue on my Debian unstable system that peeks into the files before getting a list of all files in the directory is not a good implementation of a file open dialogue in my opinionFeb 08 13:38
EruaranKDE 4.2 is noticably faster and smoother on Nvidia with their latest driverFeb 08 13:39
amarsh04okular took 40 seconds to populate the file open window in a large fat-32 directory, kpdf took 15 seconds in the same directoryFeb 08 13:42
amarsh04okular timing was after previously opening the file open dialogue so the directory would have already been cachedFeb 08 13:43
EruaranokFeb 08 13:43
Eruaranthats a bit slowFeb 08 13:44
PetoKraus 08 13:44
PetoKraus:DFeb 08 13:44

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