| twitter | M$ can sabotage anything touched by Windows. | Feb 12 13:48 |
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| twitter | Even dual booting is not safe, as the "blows away OS/2" in "ALL CASES" email showed. | Feb 12 13:49 |
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| twitter | The worst possible thing to have happen is M$ moles writing software that gets trojaned into free software - like they are doing with Novell. | Feb 12 13:50 |
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| schestowitz | aye | Feb 12 13:51 |
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| schestowitz | They can also help 'extend' KDE the Windows way, like they did with Java (and failed after being sued and all) | Feb 12 13:52 |
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| oiaohm_ | Not that simple to extend | Feb 12 13:52 |
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| twitter | KDE Windows efforts are a crazy waste of time. | Feb 12 13:52 |
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| oiaohm_ | It means touching something protected by LGPL v3.0 | Feb 12 13:52 |
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| twitter | Porting to Windows will "extend" KDE. | Feb 12 13:53 |
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| oiaohm_ | Not really twitter biggest issue for people moving OS's is the application divide. | Feb 12 13:53 |
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| oiaohm_ | KDE on Windows closes that divide. | Feb 12 13:53 |
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| twitter | no, the biggest issue moving to free software is getting over the M$ brainwash. | Feb 12 13:53 |
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| twitter | GNU/Linux has a much richer application set - that should be an incentive to moving not a "divide" | Feb 12 13:54 |
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| oiaohm_ | Ok simple question what open source emial client on windows has stable support for device sync. | Feb 12 13:55 |
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| oiaohm_ | Change in a lot of cases cannot happen instantly twitter. | Feb 12 13:55 |
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| twitter | What non free software email client has stable sync support? | Feb 12 13:55 |
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| oiaohm_ | Outlook | Feb 12 13:55 |
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| twitter | none of that shit is stable because M$ sabotages it periodically. | Feb 12 13:55 |
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| oiaohm_ | Kontact does on Linux. | Feb 12 13:56 |
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| twitter | I have seen Outlook sabotaged against Palm. | Feb 12 13:56 |
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| oiaohm_ | There is a simple divide issue. | Feb 12 13:56 |
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| twitter | it's brainwash - GNU/Linux is better. People only have to use it for a while to realize this. | Feb 12 13:56 |
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| *Casperin (n=Casperin@h11n7-m-kr-gr100.ias.bredband.telia.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 12 13:57 |
| oiaohm_ | Its not that simple. | Feb 12 13:57 |
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| schestowitz | http://digg.com/linux_unix/... | Feb 12 13:57 |
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| oiaohm_ | Change overs that are piece by piece are fare less plainful and less likely to case hell twitter | Feb 12 13:57 |
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| schestowitz | Support the (plasma) troops | Feb 12 13:57 |
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| oiaohm_ | Or at least minor hell. | Feb 12 13:58 |
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| twitter | There are very few places where software that works on Windows has an advantage - small technical niches. More than 95% are better off with GNU/Linux | Feb 12 13:58 |
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| oiaohm_ | The biggest cost of coverting to Linux is jumping the divide. | Feb 12 13:58 |
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| twitter | The sooner you jump, the more you save. | Feb 12 13:58 |
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| oiaohm_ | Remove the divide more people will cross. | Feb 12 13:58 |
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| oiaohm_ | As long as your business surves it. | Feb 12 13:59 |
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| oiaohm_ | That is the issue. KDE is addressing with its ports to Windows to mac. | Feb 12 13:59 |
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| schestowitz | KDE for Windows might not be crucial | Feb 12 13:59 |
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| oiaohm_ | If everything about your operation is working in a cross platform way changing the base platform has basically no major effects on operations. | Feb 12 13:59 |
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| twitter | What exactly will "kill" a business in a jump that the usual security problems don't do to businesses every year? | Feb 12 13:59 |
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| schestowitz | If people need Windows apps, they have virtualbox and wine | Feb 12 13:59 |
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| twitter | exactly | Feb 12 13:59 |
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| schestowitz | They can use a secure platform. The last thing we need is KDE users whining about malware and Registry clogup | Feb 12 14:00 |
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| oiaohm_ | virtualbox still required a windows licence. | Feb 12 14:00 |
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| twitter | IBM did this for Munich years ago. | Feb 12 14:00 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm_: using Windows requires a licence too :-) | Feb 12 14:00 |
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| twitter | It was cheaper to have a few licenses for the few people who needed it and to have it served out than it was to have the whole Windows disaster. | Feb 12 14:01 |
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| oiaohm_ | Goal is to no longer need them. | Feb 12 14:01 |
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| oiaohm_ | Not to have them hanging around. | Feb 12 14:01 |
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| twitter | The sooner you get rid of them the closer you are to the goal. | Feb 12 14:01 |
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| oiaohm_ | Virtual box has trouble with direct x support still. | Feb 12 14:01 |
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| twitter | KDE Windows efforts are moving south when they need to move north. | Feb 12 14:01 |
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| oiaohm_ | Breaks some accountancy packages by the way. | Feb 12 14:01 |
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| twitter | Wine works with direct x. | Feb 12 14:02 |
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| oiaohm_ | Its wine direct x in virtual box twitter | Feb 12 14:02 |
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| twitter | I know people who have used GNU/Linux as engineers in a heavy windows environment. They got along well. | Feb 12 14:03 |
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| oiaohm_ | Simple fact virtualisation does not cover all problems yet. | Feb 12 14:03 |
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| oiaohm_ | Neither does wine. | Feb 12 14:03 |
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| oiaohm_ | KDE on Windows closes down the gap. | Feb 12 14:03 |
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| twitter | It covered all of his problems and he's exactly the kind of niche worker that you would worry about. | Feb 12 14:03 |
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| twitter | KDE on Windows would do nothing for him. | Feb 12 14:04 |
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| oiaohm_ | Worst problem you have is someone seeing something having windows then demarding to have windows on there machine. | Feb 12 14:04 |
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| oiaohm_ | KDE on Windows offers a good chance of making locations where windows is needed invisable. | Feb 12 14:04 |
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| twitter | The worst problem is wasting time porting to windows when you could be making KDE better. | Feb 12 14:04 |
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| twitter | Needing windows will never be invisible to the people who pay for licensing. | Feb 12 14:05 |
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| Eruaran | If I actually had any respect for, or paid attention to, Windows EULA's I would be paying Microsoft money just to remote in to a workstation at work. | Feb 12 14:05 |
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| oiaohm_ | Also kde on windows and mac opens up KDE to feedback from a greater number of people. | Feb 12 14:06 |
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| twitter | GNU/Linux networking is one of the nicest things about Wine and Virtual box. You can centralize the non free crap and serve it out. | Feb 12 14:06 |
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| *r0ver (n=r0ver@200.127.24.112) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 12 14:06 |
| oiaohm_ | People who would not normally use Linux. | Feb 12 14:06 |
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| twitter | KDE on windows and Mac will only make Windows and Mac people more comfortable in their slavery. Then BillG will break it. | Feb 12 14:07 |
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| oiaohm_ | I alway remember one band lead. Its not the girls at the stage chearing or you that you have get there attention of its the ones at the back of room walking out the door. | Feb 12 14:07 |
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| schestowitz | \http://torvalds-family.blogspot.co... | Feb 12 14:08 |
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| schestowitz | http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/20... | Feb 12 14:08 |
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| twitter | The people walking out are all Windows users moving to GNU/Linux. | Feb 12 14:08 |
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| oiaohm_ | Define comfortable what happens the day they change OS and they don't notice the difference other than price. | Feb 12 14:08 |
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| oiaohm_ | Will they keep on paying money? | Feb 12 14:08 |
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| twitter | They can do that now. | Feb 12 14:08 |
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| oiaohm_ | Really. | Feb 12 14:08 |
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| oiaohm_ | Interface and controls on windows and Linux are massively different. | Feb 12 14:09 |
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| twitter | Most of them already use FF, GIMP, OO, Google and other free software for most of their tasks. | Feb 12 14:09 |
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| oiaohm_ | KDE is taking there control panel to Windows as well. | Feb 12 14:09 |
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| MinceR | you could add a daemon that grows a file with random crap on disk and leaks memory and wastes cpu | Feb 12 14:09 |
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| twitter | BillG will make sure that never works. | Feb 12 14:09 |
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| MinceR | that would make the experience more windows-like :> | Feb 12 14:09 |
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| oiaohm_ | So yes lot of basic configuration for all 3 OS will be madethe same. | Feb 12 14:09 |
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| schestowitz | mallokde | Feb 12 14:10 |
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| Eruaran | If a million people who might have otherwise purchased Microsoft Office are happily using OpenOffice on Windows, it hurts Microsoft's bottom line. It doesn't matter that the user is still a Windows slave. It hurts Microsoft. | Feb 12 14:10 |
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| twitter | Only admin types worry about that. | Feb 12 14:10 |
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| twitter | Better to liberate the people than to hurt M$. | Feb 12 14:10 |
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| oiaohm_ | Also KOffice + OpenOffice kinda makes a complete Office suite to go head to head with MS office. | Feb 12 14:10 |
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| twitter | M$ is hurt more that way anyway. | Feb 12 14:10 |
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| Eruaran | There is no single silver bullet that will end Microsoft's monopolistic domination. It is a range of things. | Feb 12 14:10 |
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| twitter | GNU/Linux demand is the only silver bullet. | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| oiaohm_ | twitter: is just impossable to convence a person to change everything at once. | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| MinceR | a silver bomb would probably work better | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| twitter | The sooner the anti-migration brainwash dies, the sooner M$ dies. | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| Eruaran | Ever little thing counts. | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| oiaohm_ | Its like if you tell a person they have to go up 1000 stairs. | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| oiaohm_ | They will not want to do it. | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| twitter | Only a full migration really helps. Everything else consumes resources like crazy. | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| Eruaran | Windows and Office are Microsoft's cash cows. If you erode either of these you are hurting them. | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| oiaohm_ | Yet if you break the same task down into small moves they do it. | Feb 12 14:11 |
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| oiaohm_ | Like up 1 floor get x up next foor get y. | Feb 12 14:12 |
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| oiaohm_ | They don't even notice. | Feb 12 14:12 |
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| schestowitz | If people don't use Windows, they don't use Office either | Feb 12 14:12 |
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| oiaohm_ | That is the kind of migration accross we need for Linux. | Feb 12 14:12 |
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| twitter | Moving from Windows to GNU/Linux is more like falling down a slide than it is climbing stairs. You get off the Windows treadmill and that saves labor right away. | Feb 12 14:12 |
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| schestowitz | MS understands this | Feb 12 14:12 |
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| Eruaran | A million less Windows users is less money for Microsoft. A million less MS-Office users is also less money for Microsoft. | Feb 12 14:12 |
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| schestowitz | http://caps.fool.com/blogs/vie... "Search engines be da**ed, it's the OS that generates money - if the world switches to linux, it will switch to OpenOffice too." | Feb 12 14:13 |
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| twitter | A million Windows KDE users is lockin that M$ loves. | Feb 12 14:13 |
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| oiaohm_ | twitter: ok without slowing down on a tread mill geting off can be bad for your health. | Feb 12 14:13 |
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| MinceR | it's less lockin than a million windows non-kde users | Feb 12 14:13 |
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| twitter | Nothing is worse than staying with Windows. | Feb 12 14:13 |
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| oiaohm_ | running flat on out a tread mill and going to a dead stop is what you are descibing twitter | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| twitter | Nothing is better than a full GNU/Linux migration. | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| MinceR | it's easier to switch once they're used to KDE. | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| oiaohm_ | Now there is a way of course but its a trick. | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| MinceR | they still have the option to switch fully in one step. | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| twitter | It takes more effort to make things work with Winblows than it does to simply migrate. | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| oiaohm_ | And if you get it wrong you get hurt. | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| Eruaran | A million Windows KDE users is a million people who may be more likely to switch to Linux rather than upgrade to the next version of Windows that might try to hobble their KDE apps. | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 12 14:14 |
| twitter | Staying with Windows always hurts more than anything else. | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| MinceR | well, i'm not the one making the effort, it's the KDE devs -- they've chosen to do so. :> | Feb 12 14:14 |
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| oiaohm_ | twitter: name MS most proffitable application. | Feb 12 14:15 |
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| twitter | The best chance to switch is now, while Vista is dead and Windows 7 is a cheap imitation. | Feb 12 14:15 |
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| oiaohm_ | Its not windows. | Feb 12 14:15 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: http://techdirt.com/articles/20... (Wikipedia's Circular Logic Pops Up Again) | Feb 12 14:15 |
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| schestowitz | Increasing Concerns Raised Over Google's Book Search Settlement < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090... > | Feb 12 14:15 |
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| oiaohm_ | You take out over half there revenue if you can do in MS office twitter | Feb 12 14:15 |
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| twitter | I don't care about M$ profits, I want free users and know that full migration requires less effort than half measures. | Feb 12 14:15 |
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| oiaohm_ | twitter: MS needs money to keep on making there software. | Feb 12 14:16 |
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| MinceR | :) | Feb 12 14:16 |
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| oiaohm_ | Harm there money harm there future. | Feb 12 14:16 |
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| MinceR | schestowitz: i pasted the /. link yesterday :> | Feb 12 14:16 |
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| twitter | Everytime you let Bill in the door, you give him a chance to bugger you. | Feb 12 14:16 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, I know. | Feb 12 14:16 |
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| oiaohm_ | And if you were using all KDE applications and it happens you are more likely to migrate. | Feb 12 14:16 |
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| twitter | I've been GNU/Linux only for eight years or so. | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| oiaohm_ | If you still see your self as locked in by fileformats than the like. | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| twitter | I need Windows like I need a hole in the head. | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| oiaohm_ | You stick witht he evil. | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| twitter | I'm typical. | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| oiaohm_ | Same here twitter | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| oiaohm_ | I did the conversion in 1994 | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| MinceR | i've always had a few holes in my head | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| oiaohm_ | Yes lot older mind at this | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| twitter | So why not just have everyone else move your way. You know, do as I do, not as I say. | Feb 12 14:17 |
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| oiaohm_ | I have tried you method I know the result. | Feb 12 14:18 |
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| Eruaran | The most locked in customers we have are those using Microsoft and Autodesk software. | Feb 12 14:18 |
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| oiaohm_ | Its a backlash. | Feb 12 14:18 |
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| oiaohm_ | It makess them harder to move off. | Feb 12 14:18 |
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| oiaohm_ | My normal process is remove MS office change software over in normal cycles. | Feb 12 14:18 |
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| twitter | You can give the CAD people a little machine in the corner if you have to. The rest can suck it up. | Feb 12 14:18 |
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| oiaohm_ | Finally end up after a few years fulling on Linux. | Feb 12 14:18 |
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| twitter | It's amazing how they shut up when you ask them to spend their own money for M$ crap. | Feb 12 14:18 |
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| oiaohm_ | Without complaints. Most people prase it. | Feb 12 14:18 |
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| twitter | I know people who have done migrations - full is best. | Feb 12 14:19 |
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| oiaohm_ | Now try your method people complain about X and Y applications not work. | Feb 12 14:19 |
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| oiaohm_ | If there is enough of them the backlassh causes a coversion back. | Feb 12 14:19 |
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| oiaohm_ | Then they are impossable to move for a long time. | Feb 12 14:19 |
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| Eruaran | Dude, some of our clients are architects, we can't force them to change platforms. | Feb 12 14:19 |
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| twitter | gotta go now. | Feb 12 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | re: Novell layoffs: "I know a couple of dozen both in the States and Germany, but no one had anything. Of course, they may just not be in the loop. The watch continues." | Feb 12 14:20 |
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| oiaohm_ | Yep backlash would kill you right Eruaran? | Feb 12 14:20 |
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| Eruaran | oiaohm_: it would harm us yes | Feb 12 14:20 |
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| Eruaran | A carrot is better than a stick | Feb 12 14:20 |
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| oiaohm_ | Yep. | Feb 12 14:21 |
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| oiaohm_ | Youger people to Linux just don't get that yet. | Feb 12 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | You could have both | Feb 12 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | Put Windows in a (virtual)box | Feb 12 14:23 |
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| schestowitz | I worry that KDE devs will spend time fixing Windows issues rather than other stuff | Feb 12 14:23 |
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| schestowitz | But I realise that there's another side to this coin. | Feb 12 14:23 |
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| Eruaran | We offer people Linux with Windows in VirtualBox | Feb 12 14:24 |
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| oiaohm_ | Virtualisation some people just will not use it. | Feb 12 14:24 |
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| oiaohm_ | Its a little bit of a IQ factor too. | Feb 12 14:25 |
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| Eruaran | We had a business customer who was only dependant on one Windows app | Feb 12 14:25 |
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| Eruaran | Viruses and spyware ruined her business for a week | Feb 12 14:25 |
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| Eruaran | cost her thousands | Feb 12 14:26 |
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| oiaohm_ | That makes them more willing. | Feb 12 14:26 |
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| oiaohm_ | If they never had that they are not that willing. | Feb 12 14:26 |
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| Eruaran | we offered her ubuntu with a couple of windows virtual machines and all her files always saved to an external drive | Feb 12 14:26 |
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| Eruaran | so even if windows goes pear shaped, she can just kill the VM and start the second one | Feb 12 14:27 |
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| Eruaran | start up her app again and continue working | Feb 12 14:27 |
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| oiaohm_ | Catch here lot of the KDE developers working on the Windows side would not be working on KDE if it was not on windows. | Feb 12 14:27 |
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| MinceR | the problem with virtualization is that they'll still need to buy licenses and cope with the bugs. | Feb 12 14:27 |
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| Eruaran | it was a solution that worked for her | Feb 12 14:27 |
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| Eruaran | she uses ubuntu for everything except her POS/accounting | Feb 12 14:27 |
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| Eruaran | Windows failures cannot bring her business to a halt any more | Feb 12 14:28 |
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| schestowitz | Silly IE can't render simple stuff... only browser... why can't MS do things right, like... ever? http://browsershots.org/http://boycottnovell.co... | Feb 12 14:29 |
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| oiaohm_ | Once they are cross to Linux going back becomes impossable. | Feb 12 14:29 |
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| Eruaran | It also means that since Windows has been reduced to the status of being like "just another application", she isn't interested in upgrades etc | Feb 12 14:29 |
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| Eruaran | Even though she still uses Windows, you shouldn't underestimate the difference Ubuntu has made to her life | Feb 12 14:31 |
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| Eruaran | For her its the best thing since sliced bread | Feb 12 14:31 |
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| oiaohm_ | I guess getting her accross at first was bumpy Eruaran | Feb 12 14:31 |
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| Eruaran | oiaohm_: no it was very smooth | Feb 12 14:32 |
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| oiaohm_ | Using openoffice before migration? | Feb 12 14:32 |
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| Eruaran | I think so | Feb 12 14:32 |
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| oiaohm_ | That helps a lot. | Feb 12 14:32 |
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| Eruaran | She wasn't tied to MS Office for any reason | Feb 12 14:33 |
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| oiaohm_ | So it was basically following my normal model. | Feb 12 14:33 |
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| oiaohm_ | Remove MS office then migration is far less painful. | Feb 12 14:33 |
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| Eruaran | yes | Feb 12 14:33 |
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| oiaohm_ | Of course I want to remove more so there is less problems. | Feb 12 14:33 |
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| oiaohm_ | KDE on windows suits into that perfectly. | Feb 12 14:33 |
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| Eruaran | it helped that she bought a new computer at the same time | Feb 12 14:34 |
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| Eruaran | we set up the new system for her | Feb 12 14:34 |
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| Eruaran | organized everything beforehand | Feb 12 14:34 |
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| Eruaran | so it was pretty much a clean swap to her new system | Feb 12 14:34 |
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| oiaohm_ | Doing the converison right all the time is a art form. | Feb 12 14:35 |
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| oiaohm_ | I still have not got it perfect. | Feb 12 14:35 |
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| Eruaran | turn up on site, swap her old stuff for new and she was back up and running in minutes | Feb 12 14:36 |
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| Eruaran | I love it when things go that smoothly | Feb 12 14:36 |
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| oiaohm_ | Ubuntu migration wizard is improving. | Feb 12 14:36 |
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| oiaohm_ | That also is making it simpler. | Feb 12 14:36 |
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| oiaohm_ | Ok I have a altered form for debain. | Feb 12 14:36 |
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| Eruaran | She was very greatful | Feb 12 14:37 |
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| Eruaran | she spent a fair bit | Feb 12 14:37 |
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| oiaohm_ | And will spend more. | Feb 12 14:37 |
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| Eruaran | but she said you cant put a dollar value on piece of mind | Feb 12 14:37 |
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| Eruaran | and now she has it | Feb 12 14:37 |
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| Eruaran | peace of mind | Feb 12 14:37 |
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| oiaohm_ | Yep reason why I run Linux. | Feb 12 14:37 |
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| oiaohm_ | I have to clean up computers with viruses. | Feb 12 14:37 |
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| oiaohm_ | Its so simple to bring them home on a USB stick. | Feb 12 14:38 |
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| Eruaran | yes | Feb 12 14:38 |
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| schestowitz | Wrongly using the "r" word again: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505... | Feb 12 14:39 |
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| zer0c00l | my college guys having problems with migrating from microsoft exchange server,Its coupled with dns server(actually has mail account) and a webserver the 3 servers are in a blade | Feb 12 14:43 |
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| zer0c00l | when i tried to convince them to move towards linux, they explained me like above | Feb 12 14:43 |
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| zer0c00l | they want the mail msges to be saved and exported to new linux environment (exim) | Feb 12 14:44 |
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| zer0c00l | is it possible | Feb 12 14:44 |
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| oiaohm_ | Raiding Exchange is a nasty process. | Feb 12 14:45 |
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| oiaohm_ | But possiable. | Feb 12 14:45 |
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| zer0c00l | oiaohm_ oh | Feb 12 14:46 |
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| zer0c00l | do you know how? | Feb 12 14:46 |
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| oiaohm_ | Simplest way is pay cisco some money for postpath and use postfix. | Feb 12 14:47 |
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| zer0c00l | what is postpath? and postfix? | Feb 12 14:47 |
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| oiaohm_ | http://www.postfix.org/ email server first made by IBM. | Feb 12 14:48 |
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| oiaohm_ | So kinda very solid. | Feb 12 14:48 |
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| oiaohm_ | postpath sits on top of postfix and acts exactly like a exchange server to clients. | Feb 12 14:49 |
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| oiaohm_ | Yes it can raid the exchange server as well. | Feb 12 14:50 |
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| oiaohm_ | postpath costs money. | Feb 12 14:50 |
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| oiaohm_ | There are other instructions around to manually converted exchange to other email systems. | Feb 12 14:50 |
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| oiaohm_ | The simple question is how hard to they want it zer0c00l | Feb 12 14:55 |
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| oiaohm_ | There is everything from dead simple to a work out. | Feb 12 14:55 |
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| *oiaohm_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Feb 12 14:56 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's Propaganda Minister (Vice President) Quits Microsoft http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mic... | Feb 12 14:56 |
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| schestowitz | postpath is cisco now, isn't it? | Feb 12 14:57 |
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| zer0c00l | oiaohm_: they really want this because they are having problems with sending mails through exchange server, also they feel their college website is not good and looking forward to outsource it | Feb 12 14:57 |
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| zer0c00l | i told them about drupal | Feb 12 14:57 |
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| zer0c00l | and showed them a demo | Feb 12 14:57 |
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| schestowitz | I think he has just left | Feb 12 14:57 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe by accident | Feb 12 14:57 |
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| zer0c00l | they are very much satisfied | Feb 12 14:58 |
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| amarsh04 | schestowitz - new public groklaw.net article http://www.groklaw.net/article... | Feb 12 14:59 |
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| zer0c00l | oiaohm_:https://mail.tce.edu/src/login.php what do you think about this mail setup (see powered by footer) | Feb 12 15:00 |
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| Eruaran | "Numerous analysts predict that the multiple alliances are an attempt to secure marketshare. However, the marketshare will fail to translate into revenue which the company requires for survival. Analysts and shareholders recognise that the company cannot continue to substantially grow OS and Business. Therefore, it is critical that Microsoft seek to capture a competitive share of cloud computing, SaaS and handheld | Feb 12 15:05 |
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| Eruaran | devices." | Feb 12 15:05 |
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| Eruaran | Yes, soon we will see the Zune phone | Feb 12 15:05 |
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| Eruaran | ;) | Feb 12 15:05 |
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| Eruaran | Microsoft will seek investments it can have complete control over | Feb 12 15:09 |
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| Eruaran | Where it can put its own people in another companies drivers seats | Feb 12 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | It wants political control too | Feb 12 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | I'm doing two posts about it today | Feb 12 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | It's really sick. | Feb 12 15:15 |
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| Eruaran | It is possible that if Microsoft shareholders get rid of Ballmer, Microsoft will become more aggressive rather than reform at all. | Feb 12 15:17 |
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| schestowitz | Eruaran: Microsoft has offshoots | Feb 12 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | Read this new post with me... you'll see | Feb 12 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/1... | Feb 12 15:20 |
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| schestowitz | I'm still proofreading, so tell me what you thin | Feb 12 15:20 |
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| schestowitz | *k | Feb 12 15:20 |
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| Eruaran | k | Feb 12 15:21 |
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| schestowitz | It's the darker side of Microsoft, which is real but scarcely covered in the media. | Feb 12 15:22 |
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| schestowitz | Also in the news, Ballmer is now lobbying the Federal government. I'll write about it later | Feb 12 15:23 |
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| Eruaran | The plentiful links always gives people plenty of background to look at even when the story is relatively short. | Feb 12 15:25 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 12 15:25 |
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| schestowitz | I can't do this without links. They'd call me named | Feb 12 15:25 |
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| schestowitz | *names | Feb 12 15:25 |
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| schestowitz | But we build evidence over time, with Comes being a very hard complement | Feb 12 15:25 |
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| schestowitz | Hard as in solid | Feb 12 15:26 |
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| Eruaran | yes | Feb 12 15:26 |
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| schestowitz | I have new dirt about Novell | Feb 12 15:27 |
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| schestowitz | Will post it now | Feb 12 15:28 |
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| Eruaran | ok | Feb 12 15:28 |
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| schestowitz | Eruaran: have a look: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0... | Feb 12 16:04 |
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| Eruaran | ty | Feb 12 16:05 |
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| Eruaran | interesting | Feb 12 16:07 |
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| Eruaran | its all rather odd | Feb 12 16:07 |
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| schestowitz | Highly Confidential Antitrust Exhibit: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/12/b... | Feb 12 16:09 |
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| Eruaran | nice one :) | Feb 12 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | I've just put it in Digg as well: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Bill_Ga... | Feb 12 16:14 |
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| zer0c00l | how to write a linux virus in 5 easy steps: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/foobar/6229 | Feb 12 16:22 |
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| zer0c00l | he says we are (linux users) not protected | Feb 12 16:22 |
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| zer0c00l | who is that guy? | Feb 12 16:23 |
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| schestowitz | He's a pro-FOSS guy | Feb 12 16:25 |
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| schestowitz | Not a troll, maybe the post is trollish though. it doesn't replicate itself... it's just a rogue executable, that's all. | Feb 12 16:25 |
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| benJIman | Creating those is pretty easy though. | Feb 12 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | It's like saying you can make stones kill people, so rocks are a Bad THing. | Feb 12 16:26 |
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| benJIman | The only system that really makes an effort to protect against such attack vectors is vista+'s UAC. | Feb 12 16:26 |
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| PetoKraus | how? | Feb 12 16:27 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.sandklef.com/hesa/index.php... | Feb 12 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | benJIman likes Microsoft technologies, so there's room for bias there. | Feb 12 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8208 Deceptive manipulation :-| | Feb 12 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | "The public relations firm Ketchum, which "works with the highest levels of Russia's Government and the state-owned energy monopoly Gazprom," has hired the Alston & Bird lobby firm to work on the account. The lobby firm "of former Senate Majority Leaders Bob Dole and Tom Daschle will deal with trade, energy, economic and politico-military issues at a $35K-a-month rate," at least through the end of May 2009, reports O'Dwyer's" | Feb 12 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8209 "These jets are private offices, where people can conduct business and have confidential discussions that could never occur on a commercial jetliner," argued the CEO of the National Business Aviation Association, a group that "represents corporate-jet owners." | Feb 12 16:32 |
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| zer0c00l | benJIman: my friends said UAC is highly annoying..most of the people disabled it....UAC is a becomes crap when windows is exploited (recent IE exploit) ,smb relay attack etc | Feb 12 16:33 |
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| schestowitz | OSI @ FOSDEM: http://www.opensource.org/node/388 | Feb 12 16:33 |
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| benJIman | zer0c00l: Well of course if you turn it off it doesn't protect you from anything. | Feb 12 16:33 |
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| zer0c00l | yeah well, but if your system service got security holes UAC wont help you | Feb 12 16:34 |
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| benJIman | And nor will linux | Feb 12 16:34 |
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| zer0c00l | example recent IE xml parsing overflow vulnerability | Feb 12 16:35 |
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| zer0c00l | here we have selinux | Feb 12 16:35 |
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| zer0c00l | it will bringup red flag dude (if you try to open a reverse shell or bind shell) | Feb 12 16:35 |
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| zer0c00l | :P | Feb 12 16:35 |
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| benJIman | Of course your end users who find UAC complicated will have an easy time with selinux ^_^ | Feb 12 16:35 |
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| benJIman | You'd have to elevate permissions with an IE exploit too. | Feb 12 16:36 |
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| zer0c00l | i dont think so... | Feb 12 16:36 |
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| benJIman | Assuming it's running as a limited user. | Feb 12 16:36 |
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| zer0c00l | i checked downloading those exploit scripts from milw0rm | Feb 12 16:36 |
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| benJIman | Which it is by default. | Feb 12 16:36 |
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| benJIman | The default selinux/apparmor profiles shipped out of the box with distros are equally poor at actually protecting against anything normal users would run into because there's no easy way to elevate privileges so they have to be very permissive. UAC at least allows users to do the elevation. | Feb 12 16:37 |
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| benJIman | Have a look at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/l... | Feb 12 16:38 |
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| benJIman | The installer detection sucks of course. | Feb 12 16:38 |
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| zer0c00l | you cannot trust users they will always click YES | Feb 12 16:38 |
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| schestowitz | WTF? http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS244... How come eWeek never covers the many dangers and detriments of Moonlight and Mono? | Feb 12 16:38 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, mikankun | Feb 12 16:38 |
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| mikankun | hey | Feb 12 16:39 |
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| benJIman | Because there's the same risk just using the linux kernel. | Feb 12 16:39 |
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| zer0c00l | benJIman who cares about exploits,viruses and spywares ? those malicious things are developed for some developers benefit...I dont think people will do that in linux | Feb 12 16:41 |
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| zer0c00l | altleast it will be less in linux | Feb 12 16:41 |
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| *zer0c00l yawns | Feb 12 16:42 |
| benJIman | zer0c00l: While linux has less than 1% marketshare sure, it's not a big enough target. Right now it's easier to exploit than windows though. | Feb 12 16:43 |
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| zer0c00l | you havent saw that hacking contest result? Even though people know about some security vulnerabilities on linux they cant make it as an exploit | Feb 12 16:44 |
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| zer0c00l | but people bypassed UAC and all | Feb 12 16:44 |
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| zer0c00l | three distros: ubuntu ,vi$ta ,MAC OS | Feb 12 16:45 |
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| zer0c00l | apple was exploited on the first day | Feb 12 16:45 |
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| zer0c00l | vista on the last day i guess | Feb 12 16:45 |
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| Eruaran | And Ubuntu isn't even considered "hardcore" for security by Linux users | Feb 12 16:45 |
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| zer0c00l | ubuntu they cant make it | Feb 12 16:45 |
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| zer0c00l | :D | Feb 12 16:45 |
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| Eruaran | And certainly not by BSD users ;) | Feb 12 16:45 |
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| mib_6jnqg9 | Roy keep up the good work mate - Finding the anti-trust Microsoft articles very interesting along with the rest of the site | Feb 12 16:46 |
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| *mib_6jnqg9 is now known as martinjh99 | Feb 12 16:46 |
| Eruaran | And UAC does nothing | Feb 12 16:46 |
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| *zer0c00l agrees with Eruaran | Feb 12 16:46 |
| Eruaran | Its just an annoyance feature and a scam | Feb 12 16:46 |
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| zer0c00l | UAC SUCKS | Feb 12 16:46 |
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| zer0c00l | even M$ ships their os with anti-features and spywares | Feb 12 16:47 |
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| zer0c00l | :D | Feb 12 16:47 |
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| Eruaran | I have seen Vista systems riddled with virii and spyware and all the while UAC was still working, asking us to "cancel" or "allow" as we tried to clean the malware off the system | Feb 12 16:48 |
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| Eruaran | UAC is a load of rubbish | Feb 12 16:48 |
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| zer0c00l | Eruaran: M$ introduced something called ASLR in vista..thats even got cracked | Feb 12 16:49 |
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| zer0c00l | its kind of randomizing the dlls base address i guess | Feb 12 16:50 |
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| Eruaran | Its more than a bit ridiculous when a system is completely compromised already and UAC pops up to complain that Malwarebytes is trying to access the internet... | Feb 12 16:50 |
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| Eruaran | Malwarebytes = malware removal software (it was trying to do an update) | Feb 12 16:51 |
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| Eruaran | Microsoft should be charged with fraud | Feb 12 16:52 |
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| Eruaran | UAC is a con on Windows users | Feb 12 16:52 |
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| Eruaran | as is everything Microsoft makes that poses as some kind of security software, from Defender to OneCare to whatever | Feb 12 16:53 |
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| zer0c00l | i saw some bad things about Defender in badvista.org | Feb 12 16:54 |
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| zer0c00l | it can delete "unwanted apps" by default | Feb 12 16:54 |
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| Eruaran | They can't make a *resonably* secure platform and they can't even make decent security software for their own platform | Feb 12 16:54 |
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| zer0c00l | this means that if M$ feels firefox is unwanted they can delete it :D | Feb 12 16:55 |
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| Eruaran | I tried to open a folder on XP yesterday, in safe mode as administrator | Feb 12 16:55 |
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| Eruaran | I was denied access | Feb 12 16:56 |
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| Eruaran | I had to use an Ubuntu live CD to find out what was in there | Feb 12 16:56 |
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| Eruaran | it was a bunch of .NET crap with winforms etc | Feb 12 16:56 |
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| Eruaran | DELETE | Feb 12 16:56 |
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| schestowitz | benJIman: Linux has not market share less than 1% | Feb 12 16:58 |
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| schestowitz | You're showing your typical Microsoft bias | Feb 12 16:58 |
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| schestowitz | You sound more like a Big Liar now | Feb 12 16:58 |
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| Eruaran | According to market statistics I'm a Windows user | Feb 12 16:59 |
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| Eruaran | A Windows statistic | Feb 12 16:59 |
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| benJIman | schestowitz: Could you link to your statistical report? | Feb 12 16:59 |
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| Eruaran | I assure you, this computer is not running Windows | Feb 12 16:59 |
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| Eruaran | And there are millions like me | Feb 12 17:00 |
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| schestowitz | You're echoing propaganda, benJIman http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/04/mi... | Feb 12 17:00 |
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| schestowitz | And by spreading the Big Lie you become part of the problem | Feb 12 17:00 |
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| schestowitz | More here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02... | Feb 12 17:01 |
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| Eruaran | We are that invisible unknown that doesn't show up on market stats. We downloaded our OS and installed it on a computer that Microsoft thinks runs Windows. | Feb 12 17:01 |
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| Eruaran | Chasing stats on this is like chasing a ghost | Feb 12 17:02 |
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| benJIman | Yeah I suspect 0.81% is inflated. | Feb 12 17:03 |
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| Eruaran | I'm quite happy if you believe that figure | Feb 12 17:03 |
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| Eruaran | Even happier if Ballmer believes that figure | Feb 12 17:03 |
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| MinceR | it makes him happy. | Feb 12 17:03 |
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| MinceR | it's part of the MICROS~1 religion. | Feb 12 17:04 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 12 17:05 |
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| Eruaran | Where I work, XP is still the most widely used OS, followed by GNU/Linux, then Vista, then OS X. | Feb 12 17:06 |
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| schestowitz | Trolls: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/975/... | Feb 12 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | They have to just spin it badly, don'they? | Feb 12 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | GNU/Linux is very big in developing countries. | Feb 12 17:07 |
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| Eruaran | Gartner tried to discourage us from offering GNU/Linux to our customers. | Feb 12 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft knows this very well (internal intelligence docs). Apple exists in few countries. | Feb 12 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | Gartner tries to save its job by shilling for funders | Feb 12 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | OSS doesn't give them a dime | Feb 12 17:08 |
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| Eruaran | We didn't stop, we just don't advertise it. Microsoft is in the dark. | Feb 12 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | They are funded by Ellison, Gates, others. Their clients include IBM, MS, Oracle, etc. | Feb 12 17:08 |
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| MinceR | where i work, ubuntu is the most widely used os, followed by windows and os x (or perhaps os x comes in second place0 | Feb 12 17:09 |
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| MinceR | s/0/)/ | Feb 12 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | A Farewell to Palm(O)s: Company stakes future on webOS < http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/02/a-farew... > | Feb 12 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | I thought they had already canned Palm OS development | Feb 12 17:09 |
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| Eruaran | We are quite happy if we have a growing GNU/Linux userbase that Microsoft is completely in the dark about. | Feb 12 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco says the local library started moving to Ubuntu or something | Feb 12 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | These things are never announced | Feb 12 17:10 |
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| Eruaran | Eventually, one day they wont be in the dark any more. | Feb 12 17:10 |
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| MinceR | i don't think they're really in the dark about it, at least not the management | Feb 12 17:10 |
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| Eruaran | And that's when they will pressure and threaten us. | Feb 12 17:10 |
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| MinceR | the flock, of course, believes every single word ballmer speaks. | Feb 12 17:10 |
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| Eruaran | And by then it will be too late for them. | Feb 12 17:10 |
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| schestowitz | I hope Microsoft 'cracks down' on its sellers (so-called pirates) real hard..... http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/965... | Feb 12 17:10 |
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| schestowitz | If it doesn't, then it'll continue to pretend to make high profit and stash the money in parts of the Gates Movement, e.g.Gates Fundry, IV | Feb 12 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | They move with the times: Advertising-paid music downloads ready < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/962/105... > | Feb 12 17:12 |
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| Eruaran | nite all | Feb 12 17:17 |
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| schestowitz | "Microsoft is like an old dog that even when beaten won't stop peeing on the rug. Microsoft doesn't learn about some things. Windows and Software Assurance is one of them. " http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/window... | Feb 12 17:47 |
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| schestowitz | "Maybe then, there really are compatibility problems. But if Windows 7 is as compatible as Microsoft repeatedly claims, why should there be any concern migrating from XP?" < http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/perilous... > | Feb 12 17:48 |
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| schestowitz | This one's a trollish piece:http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Its-OK-t... | Feb 12 18:26 |
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| schestowitz | bbl | Feb 12 18:32 |
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| balzac | hilarious | Feb 12 19:03 |
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| balzac | Microsoft is like an old dog that even when beaten won't stop peeing on the rug. Microsoft doesn't learn about some things. | Feb 12 19:03 |
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| balzac | That's hilarious and poigniant. I wonder if M$ headquarters smell like piss. | Feb 12 19:04 |
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| trmanco | balzac, it does smell like piss at MS HQ -> http://i43.tinypic.com/a28xi0.jpg | Feb 12 19:28 |
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| balzac | ahahaha | Feb 12 19:33 |
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| MinceR | :) | Feb 12 19:34 |
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| jose | schestowitz, when you get back, take a look at http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/20... | Feb 12 20:17 |
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| mib_yw04mg | hi | Feb 12 20:18 |
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| toros | hi | Feb 12 21:20 |
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| MinceR | oh hai | Feb 12 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | Boss Monster < http://www.ubersoft.net/comic/hd/... > | Feb 12 21:25 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: LOL | Feb 12 21:27 |
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| MinceR | :) | Feb 12 21:27 |
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| schestowitz | Elevator music files for Chapter 11 < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... > | Feb 12 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | Pioneer unplugs tellies and 10,000 workers < http://www.theregister.co.uk/... > | Feb 12 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | FOSS attacker too: NetApp restructures after $75m loss < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009... > | Feb 12 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | "The net loss is the reason for the five per cent head count cuts revealed on Monday. " | Feb 12 21:55 |
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| schestowitz | Blankenhorn peddling Windows?? No way! ZeeDeenet. http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3478 | Feb 12 21:56 |
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| trmanco | http://diario.iol.pt/tecnologia/parlamen... | Feb 12 22:20 |
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| schestowitz | Business with the Mafia | Feb 12 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | " The Assembly of the Republic will reduce costs in software licenses with the new system, estimating a savings of 62,700 euros, according to a report presented this Wednesday in the committee of ethics, the Lusa news." http://translate.google.com/translate?so... | Feb 12 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | " The document indicates the employment of less than 40 licenses of Microsoft, with an estimated savings of about 33 thousand million, and the hiring of at least 25 licenses of other brands, which represents less than about 29 thousand euros per year." How much will it cost each time the botnet will go down -- or worse -- out of control? | Feb 12 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | " The Linux [an example of free software] does not provide solutions that address all the needs "of service, he said. €«A utilização de software livre é também ela livre€», defendeu. The use of free software is free too, defended." | Feb 12 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | Who said this? | Feb 12 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | What's this system for? | Feb 12 22:22 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, let me investigate | Feb 12 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | They could be perfuming bad choices to defend collusion | Feb 12 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | "I drank milk because water isn't yummy and the milkman is my cousin" | Feb 12 22:23 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, I'm not sure, but I think it was José Lello | Feb 12 22:25 |
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| trmanco | I'm a little sleepy and tired and might of misread the article | Feb 12 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/expert/infopr... | Feb 12 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | Legalised corruption | Feb 12 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | "Internet users in Ireland: boycott EIRCOM." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-nov-feb.... | Feb 12 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | Slavery: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/09/gh... | Feb 12 22:44 |
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| schestowitz | Global Warming Threatens Antarctic Sea Life < http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases... > | Feb 12 22:44 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmmmmm.. | Feb 12 22:48 |
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| schestowitz | Some people don't know what B&M Foundation is about.... | Feb 12 22:48 |
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| schestowitz | See second comment...... http://digg.com/linux_unix/Bill_Gates_I... | Feb 12 22:49 |
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| schestowitz | Censorship in a country that the US claims to have brought democracy to: Bush shoe-thrower sculpture given the boot < http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=736248 > | Feb 12 22:50 |
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| MinceR | gn | Feb 12 23:01 |
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| schestowitz | Neat. http://www.ojuba.org/wiki/lib/exe/fetc... | Feb 12 23:02 |
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| schestowitz | Never heard of this distro before..... http://www.ojuba.org/wiki/doku.php/linux... | Feb 12 23:02 |
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| schestowitz | Cool! ELive gets Compiz-like effects: http://www.elivecd.org/Main/News/elive-devel... | Feb 12 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Asus Plans to Reduce Variety of Eee PC Netbooks < http://www.pcworld.com/article/159423/asus_plans_to_... < | Feb 12 23:08 |
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| schestowitz | Samsung Delays Google Android Phone < http://www.pcworld.com/article/1594... > ... Samsung = layoffs, many frauds, prison for CEO | Feb 12 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | Bray: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/20... "Well, it’s obvious: Three decades into the life of email, we still haven’t figured out the best way to use it." | Feb 12 23:14 |
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| balzac | I could have told the Asus guys not to make so many models | Feb 12 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | The concern is that they might cut the low-end models. | Feb 12 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | But they have a cheap one running Linux coming, IIRC | Feb 12 23:15 |
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| balzac | They really ought not to do anything that dumb | Feb 12 23:15 |
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| balzac | Why so many models? Seems like their company is run by a crazy guy who happens to be right once in a while. | Feb 12 23:16 |
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| balzac | I have the eee 901 | Feb 12 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | Just posted: http://www.advogato.org/article/998.html | Feb 12 23:16 |
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| balzac | I don't want a big eee | Feb 12 23:17 |
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| oiaohm | The open source presure on MS has started. | Feb 12 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | "The impact produced a cloud of debris, which will be tracked into the future. Since the Soviets launched Sputnik in 1957, it is estimated about 6,000 satellites have been put in orbit. " http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci... | Feb 12 23:21 |
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| balzac | Micrsoft tears - crisp, sweet and satisfying | Feb 12 23:21 |
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| oiaohm | Question is how long before major non repairable breakage startes. | Feb 12 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: not really. It started many years ago. Halloween and all...? | Feb 12 23:22 |
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| balzac | there's plenty more to come | Feb 12 23:22 |
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| schestowitz | They have tools like de Icaza to help them against FOSS. | Feb 12 23:22 |
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| oiaohm | Linux really has not put presure heavly on MS core markets. | Feb 12 23:22 |
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| oiaohm | Only recently started. | Feb 12 23:22 |
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| schestowitz | Debris leads to a chain reaction maybe. | Feb 12 23:22 |
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| schestowitz | 2 satellites become 2000 small ones :-) | Feb 12 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | Which it turn collide with more, making many more thousands. | Feb 12 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | Then you have Saturn-like rings of debris :-) | Feb 12 23:23 |
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| balzac | well, it was only recently that GNU/Linux decisively finished off proprietary Unix | Feb 12 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: what core market? Desktop? | Feb 12 23:23 |
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| balzac | the NYSE/Redhat deal was the clincher | Feb 12 23:23 |
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| oiaohm | Desktop and desktop support server both highly intergrated MS core market. schestowitz | Feb 12 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Windows on desktops is cheap because of GNU/Linux.. and I could go on forever on how it makes Microsoft broke | Feb 12 23:24 |
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| balzac | Roy, if that first collision creates a chain-reaction, the global satellite system could suffer. | Feb 12 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Linux is the only reason MS doesn't charge for WIndows (anything!) in the majority of the world | Feb 12 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Alternative office suites likewise | Feb 12 23:24 |
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| balzac | luckily, lots of these sats have different weights, orbital speeds, and distances from earth | Feb 12 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Which is why they need to lackeys from Novell to harm OOo and Sun (paid devs) | Feb 12 23:25 |
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| oiaohm | Harm OOo is really attacking wrong target. | Feb 12 23:25 |
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| balzac | so one cloud of debris won't destroy our satellite networks | Feb 12 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | balzac: they can change altitude.. maybe. | Feb 12 23:25 |
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| oiaohm | Then one they should worry about is Koffice | Feb 12 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | Novell: the debris of FOSS | Feb 12 23:26 |
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| oiaohm | Problem with hit of sats its a cloud some can go up and some can go down in in Altertude so no the distances don't mean they are safe. | Feb 12 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | WTF?? "Video games should have a "red button" parents can press to disable inappropriate games, says a report." < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/tech... >. It's like cameras that make noise because of girls' skirts. | Feb 12 23:27 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, I know.. that's why I added maybe | Feb 12 23:27 |
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| oiaohm | No maybe | Feb 12 23:28 |
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| oiaohm | Some will change Altertude | Feb 12 23:28 |
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| balzac | yeah, i don't have any use for personal electronics which is geared towards doing the work of big brother | Feb 12 23:28 |
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| oiaohm | You hope straight into earth. | Feb 12 23:28 |
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| schestowitz | China has already spread space junk that it put in orbis. We're DOOMED!! :-) | Feb 12 23:28 |
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| oiaohm | Most fun way to change Sats path is send it out around the moon. | Feb 12 23:29 |
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| oiaohm | Lucky the moon was not around when the hit happened. | Feb 12 23:29 |
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| balzac | maybe that old russian satellite was specifically maneuvered into the orbital path of the other, and Vladimir Putin has reared his Russian KGB head to tell the company to pay or else they'll knock down another! | Feb 12 23:29 |
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| oiaohm | No old russian was dead sat flying. | Feb 12 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | I got mail about Putin today | Feb 12 23:30 |
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| oiaohm | No boosters left so no way to change path. | Feb 12 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/01/2... | Feb 12 23:30 |
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| oiaohm | Only the one with fuel can maneuver. | Feb 12 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | US mentality = we save world, let us help you, will accept chque, gas, or oil | Feb 12 23:30 |
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| oiaohm | I guess someone F there sat maths class. | Feb 12 23:31 |
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| oiaohm | Its fun maths you have to allow for the junk moving and make a path threw it long time in advance. | Feb 12 23:31 |
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| schestowitz | In Soviet Siberia, satellite hits satelliteski | Feb 12 23:31 |
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| balzac | I was pretty amused by Putin's diss of Michael Dell | Feb 12 23:31 |
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| oiaohm | You have to alter path about 5 hours in advance to be able to miss. | Feb 12 23:32 |
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| *toros has quit ("leaving") | Feb 12 23:32 |
| balzac | Mr. Dell is an insufferably-arrogant guy | Feb 12 23:32 |
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| schestowitz | Gates' buddy | Feb 12 23:32 |
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| schestowitz | Did you see yesterday's post? | Feb 12 23:32 |
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| oiaohm | Basically sats don't have big boosters. | Feb 12 23:32 |
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| balzac | He talked so much trash about Apple, but Steve Jobs mopped the floor with him. | Feb 12 23:32 |
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| schestowitz | Gates calls him just "mIchael | Feb 12 23:32 |
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| schestowitz | The Collusion family is one happy family. | Feb 12 23:32 |
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| schestowitz | "We'll run the computer world, thank you very mucdh" | Feb 12 23:32 |
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| schestowitz | It's like those secret Harard clubs and society where you need to be admitted as a trusted 'cult' member to stand a chance in the election/PC industry/arms contract/etc. | Feb 12 23:33 |
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| schestowitz | *Harvard; *Societies | Feb 12 23:33 |
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| balzac | yeah, they probably make members bob for apples in a toilet to gain entry | Feb 12 23:34 |
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| balzac | Roy, it's nice to be in a British Ivy League from which to piss on Harvard grads, I bet. | Feb 12 23:34 |
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| schestowitz | Obama was there too | Feb 12 23:35 |
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| balzac | yeah, there are a few cool people to come out of Harvard | Feb 12 23:35 |
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| schestowitz | Same circulation... manufacturing faces to be candidates, i.e. fronts to Big Powers | Feb 12 23:35 |
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| balzac | but last time I checked, the president of Harvard was a moron. | Feb 12 23:35 |
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| balzac | George Douche came from Harvard | Feb 12 23:36 |
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| balzac | It crawled out from the bowels of Harvard... | Feb 12 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | I thought you said Google Douche | Feb 12 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | (Stanford) | Feb 12 23:37 |
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| balzac | A beast slouches toward bethlehem | Feb 12 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | Schmidt, Brin, Page | Feb 12 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* | Feb 12 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | Which beast? | Feb 12 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.mixx.com/photos/3778124/microsoft_sc... | Feb 12 23:38 |
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| balzac | well, based on the pompadors, the Google guys have a certain douche-factor to them | Feb 12 23:38 |
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| schestowitz | Which one/s? | Feb 12 23:38 |
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| balzac | http://redesign.files.wordpress.co... | Feb 12 23:38 |
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| balzac | well, one of them and not the other so much | Feb 12 23:39 |
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| balzac | the recent diaper-party was a douchey and frat-tastic | Feb 12 23:40 |
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| balzac | google diaper party | Feb 12 23:40 |
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| schestowitz | :-( I don't think we'll make a front page tomorrow (too slow) http://digg.com/linux_unix/Bill_Gates... | Feb 12 23:42 |
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| balzac | I have a few complaints about Google - their opposition to the AGPL, their embrace of "open source" branding, and their paltry support for GNU. | Feb 12 23:42 |
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| balzac | they're not so special as they think | Feb 12 23:42 |
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| schestowitz | Oh yeah... I totally forget about their AGPL diss | Feb 12 23:42 |
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| schestowitz | They never resolved it | Feb 12 23:42 |
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| schestowitz | The discussion was just taken off the table. | Feb 12 23:42 |
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| balzac | Roy, Digg may have reached the saturation point for this week. | Feb 12 23:42 |
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| balzac | it could be an issue of timing | Feb 12 23:42 |
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| schestowitz | balzac: but they INNOVATED.... count number of links to page to assign ranks to it...... you know :-)... kind of like Citeseer and indexes that existed for hundreds of years | Feb 12 23:43 |
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| balzac | Google did one major thing right - cornered the market-share on search engines. | Feb 12 23:44 |
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| balzac | Everything else has been based on that one early victory | Feb 12 23:44 |
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| schestowitz | WHOOPS! http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/97... ( US nuclear weapons lab loses 67 computers) | Feb 12 23:45 |
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| balzac | they're smart, but not so much smarter than everyone else as their disproportionate success might suggest. | Feb 12 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | I hope the thieves don't install SUSE on these... PCLOs is so much better! | Feb 12 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | Success != money | Feb 12 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | That's an issue that's global | Feb 12 23:45 |
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| balzac | true | Feb 12 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | People treat Gates as though he understand the economy best | Feb 12 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | Not economists and professors | Feb 12 23:46 |
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| balzac | yeah, it's true | Feb 12 23:46 |
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| balzac | that's the culture of ass-kissery of the wealthy | Feb 12 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | But that who has more money must therefore be really, really smart | Feb 12 23:46 |
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| balzac | wealth = wisdom | Feb 12 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | In the USSA[sic], usually the most brutal and reckless people are those who 'succeed' | Feb 12 23:46 |
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| balzac | it's very funny | Feb 12 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | Because there is no regulation | Feb 12 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | They get the throne rather than time in rpsion | Feb 12 23:46 |
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| schestowitz | *prison (got mangled there) | Feb 12 23:47 |
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| balzac | well, I keep saying the best way to beat them is to crush them in business | Feb 12 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | "Hey, how about professor Z?" | Feb 12 23:47 |
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| balzac | I'm glad some people are hobbling them with enforcement of law and public persuasion | Feb 12 23:47 |
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| schestowitz | re: "naaa... he lives in downtown Georgia... he can't be smart" | Feb 12 23:47 |
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| oiaohm | Cisco has the best way to win. | Feb 12 23:47 |
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| oiaohm | don't crush them use them. | Feb 12 23:48 |
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| balzac | I just like the word crush. It sounds more like kruschev and less like machiavelli | Feb 12 23:48 |
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| schestowitz | Speaking of which: | Feb 12 23:48 |
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| balzac | ve vill bury you! | Feb 12 23:48 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news... | Feb 12 23:48 |
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| *balzac slams shoe on the table | Feb 12 23:49 |
| schestowitz | Profitable business= smart | Feb 12 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | So repeat after me: "Web 2.0, Web 2.0..." | Feb 12 23:49 |
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| oiaohm | What is the down side of killing of your competition. | Feb 12 23:49 |
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| oiaohm | Cisco woke up to it early on. | Feb 12 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | Folksonomy... blogosphere.. tagging... | Feb 12 23:49 |
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| balzac | blech | Feb 12 23:50 |
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| balzac | those words can cause nausea | Feb 12 23:50 |
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| oiaohm | Its so simple if you don't have any competition you have to find all the R&D costs yourself. | Feb 12 23:50 |
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| balzac | oiaohm: good point | Feb 12 23:50 |
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| balzac | better to nurture and control them like cows | Feb 12 23:50 |
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| oiaohm | Its far better to setup to be a distributitor of your competions products. | Feb 12 23:50 |
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| oiaohm | That way you make profit from your own and theres. | Feb 12 23:51 |
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| balzac | make a sybiotic relationship in which they are kept as livestock | Feb 12 23:51 |
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| oiaohm | Yep balzac exactly what cisco systems does. | Feb 12 23:51 |
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| balzac | that sounds sinister | Feb 12 23:51 |
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| oiaohm | Cisco picks the best products from them and then stick there label on it. | Feb 12 23:52 |
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| balzac | just like a farmer, harvesting | Feb 12 23:52 |
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| oiaohm | Customers trust the Cisco label pay more for it so Cisco profits even that they are selling other peoples devices. | Feb 12 23:52 |
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| oiaohm | Yep its a really good model. | Feb 12 23:52 |
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| oiaohm | Open source also works the same kind of way. | Feb 12 23:52 |
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| balzac | those who have amassed capital can benefit from everyone else without doing any work | Feb 12 23:53 |
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| balzac | just sit back and wait for opportunities and offers to land on you | Feb 12 23:53 |
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| oiaohm | Cisco has more money that microsoft. | Feb 12 23:53 |
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| balzac | money begets money | Feb 12 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft might already be in debt | Feb 12 23:54 |
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| oiaohm | If the downturn on MS lasts Cisco might be able to buy Microsoft. | Feb 12 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | How deep nobody knows | Feb 12 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | It's complicated because they have external bank accounts like "gates foundation" and some personals... also shareholders, private hands. | Feb 12 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: you don't make sense :-) | Feb 12 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | "<oiaohm> Cisco picks the best products from them and then stick there label on it." | Feb 12 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | Contradicts | Feb 12 23:55 |
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| balzac | good point | Feb 12 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | "If the downturn on MS lasts Cisco might be able to buy Microsoft." | Feb 12 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | They bought Jabber though | Feb 12 23:55 |
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| oiaohm | That was more aquiring a pest. | Feb 12 23:56 |
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| oiaohm | And a useful domain name. | Feb 12 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | When you put the "V" word (Vista) on Cisco, that's the end of Cisco. People will want to strangle Cisco every time the Zunisco dies for a day (leap year) and the XBoxisco burns down a house with a baby | Feb 12 23:57 |
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| oiaohm | Cisco sells network hardware. | Feb 12 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft sells marketing | Feb 12 23:57 |
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| balzac | alright, i'm afk for a while | Feb 12 23:57 |
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| oiaohm | Cisco will keep income because network hardware wears out and has to be replaced. | Feb 12 23:57 |
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| oiaohm | MS problem software does not wear out. | Feb 12 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | "Usually Microsoft doesn't develop products, we buy products. It's not a bad product, but bits and pieces are missing." --Arno Edelmann, Microsoft's European business security product manager | Feb 12 23:58 |
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