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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 15th, 2009 - Part 2

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schestowitzGet up close and personal with Microsoft: CompTIA, Martin Bean, Fraunhofer Fokus, and Other Microsoft Boosters < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/1... >Mar 15 13:42
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_Hicham_Hi All!Mar 15 14:26
schestowitzHey, what's up?Mar 15 14:30
_Hicham_I miss this channel !Mar 15 14:31
_Hicham_it is becoming more than a novell issueMar 15 14:32
_Hicham_far more bigger than thatMar 15 14:32
trmancohttp://video.linuxfoundat...Mar 15 14:33
schestowitz_Hicham_: have you seen BN today? I made 3 postsMar 15 14:34
schestowitzACTA is an outrageMar 15 14:34
schestowitzNovell is a sympton of a broken system, maybe the scapegoat that takes the toll because it harms Linux, which was intended to be more of a camp (GNU) that serves a grand purpose.Mar 15 14:35
schestowitzI sometimes wonder how much of a 'GNU' Linus is.... I mean, it's not as though he can deny his dad was a communist. Maybe he's just shy of certain things.Mar 15 14:35
trmancohaha, the ksplice slogamMar 15 14:37
schestowitztrmanco: thanks, there should be about 30Mar 15 14:37
schestowitzI'll repost in BNMar 15 14:37
trmancoKsplice - Rebooting is obsoleteMar 15 14:37
schestowitzIt's raw marketing material for GNU/LinuxMar 15 14:37
trmancothe origin is the best one I've foundMar 15 14:37
trmancohttp://video.linuxfoundation... -> here is another oneMar 15 14:39
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schestowitzEarth and you… < http://webhostedservices.com/blog... >Mar 15 14:47
trmancohahaha -> http://video.linuxfoundation.org...Mar 15 14:51
schestowitzOK, done: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/15/pr...Mar 15 14:52
trmancothat was fastMar 15 14:54
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schestowitzPING kentma Mar 15 14:57
schestowitzthanks, kentma Mar 15 14:58
schestowitztrmanco: thanks for the pointers. You're helping the cause a lot.Mar 15 14:58
schestowitzThe Linux Foundation did a wonderful service here because it gives fuel for advocacy. Novell did the same with Compiz.Mar 15 14:58
_Hicham_what did Novell with Compiz?Mar 15 15:00
schestowitzIt was part of making it possible.Mar 15 15:00
schestowitzOne of the good things they did.Mar 15 15:00
_Hicham_did they contribute to its code?Mar 15 15:03
schestowitzvideo.linuxfoundation.org is too slowMar 15 15:04
schestowitz_Hicham_: yesMar 15 15:04
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trmancoschestowitz, you're welcome, yeah it got slowMar 15 15:09
trmancoyou gave them a DDoS attack :-PMar 15 15:09
schestowitztrmanco: it times outMar 15 15:09
schestowitzMaybe too much demandMar 15 15:09
trmancoyeah, they tweeted the video section a while agoMar 15 15:10
schestowitzWon't respond now, but the main site (lf) is isolated from video subdomMar 15 15:10
schestowitztrmanco: aah, well, sue twitter then :-)Mar 15 15:11
schestowitzLinux Foundation releases wonderful videos and the site is now down due to heavy demand. :-(Mar 15 15:11
trmancohttps://twitter.com/LinuxDotCom/...Mar 15 15:13
schestowitz:-)Mar 15 15:14
schestowitz"We're Linux".............. anddddddddddddddddddd..... we're downMar 15 15:14
schestowitzhttp://video.linuxfoundation.org/category/vid... "Site off-line"Mar 15 15:15
schestowitz"The site is currently not available due to technical problems. Please try again later. Thank you for your understanding."Mar 15 15:15
schestowitzit's a good thing they put it on YouTubeMar 15 15:15
schestowitzAnd I got an OggMar 15 15:15
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trmancoyeah,some are on youtubeMar 15 15:21
schestowitztrmanco: it'll receive lots of publicity later. Also articles on Monday, so i'll leave it for now....Mar 15 15:27
trmancookMar 15 15:27
schestowitzI want to post some good news to COLAMar 15 15:27
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schestowitzPeterKraus: Do you know Greenie? A new version has just been released. http://www.greenie.sk/Mar 15 16:02
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PeterKrausi've heard about itMar 15 16:03
PeterKraushmmMar 15 16:05
PeterKraus€£7.35 for mail redirMar 15 16:05
PeterKrausthat's coolMar 15 16:05
_Hicham_what is greenie?Mar 15 16:23
_Hicham_it is not available in englishMar 15 16:23
PeterKrausSlovak UbuntuMar 15 16:25
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_Hicham_I seeMar 15 16:38
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twittergood morning, comrades!  New trick:  shift+return = non disruptive way to review the day's IRC.Mar 15 17:15
twitterIn theory, you can write DVDs with a 286.   DVD 1x is 1.321 MB/s, 8MHz ISA gives 16MB/s.  Most SCSI cards give 5 MB/s, so you can do it through that interface.Mar 15 17:15
twitterYou would have to write the image first, then do a a straight burn from disk.  FreeDOS should be able to do that kind of thing.  Yes, it would be very slow.Mar 15 17:15
twitterMust resist urge to set up old 286 with freeDOS.  Have much more important and productive things to do.Mar 15 17:15
twitterI imagine k3b can get the job done with USB 1 on my 233MHz PII laptop but don't see the need to try.  I've got better equipment.Mar 15 17:15
zer0c00lschestowitz:http://magesh.geexhq.com/?p=24 read the seventh line from the bottom...Microsoft always finds its way into opensource conferencesMar 15 17:15
twitterDreamweaver dying?  Sad for their users, good for network and software freedom.Mar 15 17:15
twitterThe smears are all M$ has had for a long time.  They can't argue technicalities anymore.  They are left with, "use our inferior software at all costs or you are a Zealot."Mar 15 17:15
twitterthe "Extreme Biases" page feeds these smears, please don't link to trash like that.Mar 15 17:15
twitterThere is nothing natural about the Chicago River.  Even if it's algae bloom, that comes from fertilizers and creates dead zones.Mar 15 17:15
twitterBN had a nice write up about M$ stinking up competitor's conferences and the underhanded tricks it takes to get there.Mar 15 17:15
twitterthe bottom line is that you can't trust anyone from M$, no matter how friendly they are personally, their goal is your destruction.Mar 15 17:16
zer0c00ltwitter: can i get that link?Mar 15 17:18
zer0c00labout the BN's write up on M$ stinking up foss conferencesMar 15 17:19
josegoogle 66 pages of microsoft evilMar 15 17:19
josehttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/02...Mar 15 17:19
joseSee the section titled "Microsoft on How it Deliberately Ruins Competitors’ Conferences by Attending"Mar 15 17:20
joseThere may be other places that cover this, but this is the one i rememberMar 15 17:21
zer0c00ljose:thanksMar 15 17:24
josei link to that page every now and thenMar 15 17:25
schestowitzJust a momentMar 15 17:26
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schestowitzzer0c00l: thanks, got it. Will postMar 15 17:38
zer0c00lok ;)Mar 15 17:38
schestowitzzer0c00l: they also stink up OSBCMar 15 17:39
schestowitzSo I'll combine itMar 15 17:39
schestowitzGotta go in a minuteMar 15 17:39
zer0c00lokMar 15 17:39
schestowitzjose: yes, I always link to thisMar 15 17:39
schestowitzMicosoft admits crashing eventsMar 15 17:39
schestowitzIt'll bribe to get in and ruin itMar 15 17:39
schestowitzThe organisers need to be slammedMar 15 17:40
schestowitzor be shown the crimes MS commits and its plan to ruin events this wayMar 15 17:40
schestowitzgtgMar 15 17:46
zer0c00lschestowitz: please do show them the crimesMar 15 17:47
twitterthanks, joseMar 15 17:53
twitterthe link jose provided, zer0c00l, should give pause to anyone genuinely interested in free softwareMar 15 17:54
zer0c00lyeahMar 15 17:54
zer0c00li bookmarked it :)Mar 15 17:55
twitterthat's a good idea.Mar 15 17:55
twitterThe M$ reaction to GNU/Linux at Walmart is another good indicator of the lengths that M$ will go to crush free softwareMar 15 17:57
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twitterBN also did a good write up about thatMar 15 17:57
twitterand it's recentMar 15 17:58
zer0c00lokMar 15 17:58
amarsh04__twitter, I wrote a DVD at 132 KByte/s (close to 0.1 x) a few hours agoMar 15 18:00
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amarsh04__source .iso was on a usb drive on a usb 1.1 portMar 15 18:00
amarsh04__no errors, played fine on a standalone dvd playerMar 15 18:00
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twittercoolMar 15 18:02
Balrog_Red Hat / PatentsMar 15 18:03
twitterSlashdot has another story on UK Internet Censorship.  http://news.slashdot.org/article.p...Mar 15 18:03
Balrog_http://yro.slashdot.org/article...Mar 15 18:03
twitterI think it's time to reclaim the spectrum to avoid this kind of attack.  Think civil disobedience with Open Spectrum on empty TV broadcast spectrum.Mar 15 18:04
twitterThe Prometheus Project has done some work like this with community FM and they talk about Open Spectrum, but I don't think they have gone the distance and published plans for free internet routers and mesh networking.Mar 15 18:06
twittercentralized telco must die if free press is to survive.Mar 15 18:07
_Hicham_what about canonical developing closed source products?Mar 15 18:07
amarsh04depends if the telco is a "common carrier" only or a "content provider"Mar 15 18:08
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joseamarsh04__, i don't know about dvd burners but perhaps at least the one you used aggregates data for a while and then when the spinning reaches the right spot again it dumps it out at the necessary speed. if so, such a burner should never result in bad burns because of low data rate. wonder how many burners work this way.Mar 15 18:18
joseamarsh04_, i don't know about dvd burners but perhaps at least the one you used aggregates data for a while and then when the spinning reaches the right spot again it dumps it out at the necessary speed. if so, such a burner should never result in bad burns because of low data rate. wonder how many burners work this way.Mar 15 18:18
joselolMar 15 18:19
joseamarsh04, i don't know about dvd burners but perhaps at least the one you used aggregates data for a while and then when the spinning reaches the right spot again it dumps it out at the necessary speed. if so, such a burner should never result in bad burns because of low data rate. wonder how many burners work this way.Mar 15 18:19
joseschestowitz and anyone else, has this link come out on bn (from 4 days ago) http://blog.wired.com/27bstr...Mar 15 18:22
josei get the feeling, the prior person in that post wanted to rock the boat, while maybe the person who worked (works?) at ms for a while played the laid back approach.. and maybe is mostly interested in pushing ms lockin. .. hopefully notMar 15 18:24
twitterhe he, I think this just got front paged.  http://slashdot.org/fireho...Mar 15 18:24
twitterthe bridge to microsoft as an the new pork barrelMar 15 18:25
amarsh04_jose, I think that it was only burning from its buffer... the disk stayed spinning continuously thoughMar 15 18:25
josenot sure how to read those numbers about buffer full/etc.Mar 15 18:27
joseto be clear, what i was saying would be that the drive would keep it's buffer is accumulation mode for a while, the disk would spin, no burning would take place, the buffer would slowly fill up...Mar 15 18:28
josethen in one shot, the buffer would empty down (or part way down) once the right location on the disk came around again.. and the process would repeat.Mar 15 18:28
joseit would be interesting to test this perhaps by doing something like a cat > driveMar 15 18:29
joseif you have a drive that works this way (assuming these exist) then you might have to modify the source to the burner softwareMar 15 18:30
jose?Mar 15 18:30
twitterbblMar 15 18:30
josemaybe no need to modify. can't remember if these accept input from stdinMar 15 18:31
zer0c00lgot a lot picture evidence about how m$ cheats engineering college students..Will shortly send themMar 15 18:32
zer0c00lthey organize something called bootcampMar 15 18:32
zer0c00lthe software molester is trying to molest education nowMar 15 18:33
zer0c00lin that boot camp they *train* (brain wash students)Mar 15 18:33
zer0c00lgive them costly food and hotel suitsMar 15 18:33
zer0c00l(as bribe)Mar 15 18:34
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zer0c00lto spread evil in educationMar 15 18:34
josepre-grease tomorrow's gov and business leadersMar 15 18:35
joselots of groups try to be good to tomorrow's leadersMar 15 18:41
josebut the ms case doesn't inspire confidence in meMar 15 18:41
josesomeone might try this test for recording from something slow:Mar 15 18:43
joseget an iso file, break it up into pieces, then run a (shell) script that sends each piece in a loop...Mar 15 18:44
josehave a sleep in each loop to slow down the processMar 15 18:44
joseand send all the pieces one after the other to the stdin of say cdrecordMar 15 18:44
joseie, write a bash loop where on each cycle you sleep for a second and then ship off to stdin of cdrecord the next chunk of the isoMar 15 18:45
josethis won't work if you startup a new cdrecord process in each cycle so you have to shove the stuff into a fifo or whatever but make sure you shove it into the same running cdrecord processMar 15 18:47
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GoblinHelloMar 15 18:59
zer0c00lGoblin:helloMar 15 19:00
zer0c00l:)Mar 15 19:00
Goblinjust testing out the irc feature in pidginMar 15 19:01
Goblinnot bad.... no DCC send/Recieve thoughMar 15 19:02
zer0c00looMar 15 19:06
_Hicham_Goblin : did u get the transfer prompt ?Mar 15 19:07
GoblinlolMar 15 19:09
GoblinI just did a feature on my blog saying it didnt!Mar 15 19:10
Goblinstill, what about fileservers?Mar 15 19:10
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Balrog_I'm stuck with non-unicode text again :(Mar 15 19:13
_Hicham_Balrog : what is the software u r using?Mar 15 19:14
twitterschestowitz, this story is very interesting.  http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/...Mar 15 19:14
twitterI'm not sure I understand the interference though.  Do you have links to stories or did you get the information from email?Mar 15 19:14
Balrog_someone sent me a pagemaker file created in windows using a proprietary font and keyboard layoutMar 15 19:14
Balrog_the correct chars are cyrillic, but I get this:Mar 15 19:15
Balrog_ïàðàô€³ÃƒÂ¿íàìMar 15 19:15
twitterickMar 15 19:15
Balrog_so the font is mapping cyrillic chars to those codesMar 15 19:15
twittertell them to send you the textMar 15 19:15
Balrog_Pagemaker files aren't the problem hereMar 15 19:15
twitterfrom something elseMar 15 19:16
Balrog_it's the font. If they send me the text I will still have this problemMar 15 19:16
Balrog_(because they'll be using this 'bad' font / keylayout)Mar 15 19:16
twitteris there anyone else in the world that uses the same, or is this person some kind of an island?Mar 15 19:17
Balrog_the person did it on WindowsMar 15 19:17
Balrog_:(Mar 15 19:17
Balrog_without Unicode / UTF-8Mar 15 19:17
twitteryeah, but can anyone else in the world share pagemaker files with them?Mar 15 19:17
Balrog_twitter: the pagemaker files aren't an issueMar 15 19:18
_Hicham_here is a cool wallpaper : http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/...Mar 15 19:18
Balrog_the fonts areMar 15 19:18
Balrog_and the nonstandard mappingMar 15 19:18
Balrog_(or what seems to be nonstandard)Mar 15 19:18
twitterIs there anyone else in the world that has these fonts and mapping?Mar 15 19:18
Balrog_seems related:Mar 15 19:18
Balrog_http://www.proz.com/forum/office_applicat...Mar 15 19:18
Balrog_they give an OOo-Basic scriptMar 15 19:19
Balrog_how to use?Mar 15 19:19
twittersimplest way, don't use wordMar 15 19:19
Balrog_but incomplete :(Mar 15 19:19
Balrog_it's not word but rather lack of unicodeMar 15 19:19
Balrog_old software doesn't know unicode :(Mar 15 19:20
Balrog_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP1251 looks like the problemMar 15 19:23
Balrog_the Windows-1251 codepageMar 15 19:23
_Hicham_Roy : u should write a post about unicodeMar 15 19:23
Balrog_and there's a decoder :)Mar 15 19:23
Balrog_let's see if it works.Mar 15 19:23
Balrog_YES.Mar 15 19:24
Balrog_:)Mar 15 19:24
Balrog_worksMar 15 19:24
Balrog_but it's still a pain to convert all the text :(Mar 15 19:26
Balrog_why can't people just use UTF-8 ?Mar 15 19:26
josedo you want to remap?Mar 15 19:26
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Balrog_jose: ?Mar 15 19:27
josedo you want to take the codes in the file and change them around to something else?Mar 15 19:27
Balrog_that's what I wantedMar 15 19:27
Balrog_the codes are correct, but they're not 'tagged' rightMar 15 19:27
Balrog_so the system thinks it's ASCII when it is CP1251Mar 15 19:28
Balrog_and I want UTF-8Mar 15 19:28
Balrog_взяли looks like âçÿëèMar 15 19:29
josei was thinking of a quick loop program that takes each byte and compares to one table and then outputs the correct lookup valueMar 15 19:29
joselet me look up utf-8 again.. i know it's like ascii with something extraMar 15 19:29
Balrog_http://2cyr.com/decode/ does it, but it's not fossMar 15 19:29
josethere might be a library call in python/perl/etc that does this very quicklyMar 15 19:30
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Balrog_rather a web-appMar 15 19:30
Balrog_hm ... okMar 15 19:30
josecan you just run it through the web app and copy/pasteMar 15 19:30
Balrog_yes, but is time consumingMar 15 19:31
josei think mapping to utf-8 would be a little more complex than simple one-to-one char switchingMar 15 19:31
joseyou have many files?Mar 15 19:31
Balrog_let me look what exists first.Mar 15 19:31
josetime consuming in the sense of lots of copy/paste?Mar 15 19:31
Balrog_yes, I have some, and more to come :(Mar 15 19:31
joseohMar 15 19:31
Balrog_and web app timeMar 15 19:31
balzacdamn I had a good night at the strip-club last nightMar 15 19:32
Balrog_would Scribus be easy for someone used to pagemaker?Mar 15 19:32
balzacdouble lap-dance from two girls simultaneouslyMar 15 19:32
_Hicham_balzac : wbMar 15 19:32
Balrog_I want to say something but I don't think I will :PMar 15 19:32
balzacthick-thighed women, man-crushing thighs and small tittiesMar 15 19:33
_Hicham_balzac : :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:DMar 15 19:33
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balzacAnd I didn't even pay the lap-dance fee, I bought one girl a champagne and the other a shotMar 15 19:33
joseBalrog_, you want to map cp1251 to what (utf-8?).. maybe google shows that this func exists already from a foss libMar 15 19:34
Balrog_utf-8 if possibleMar 15 19:34
Balrog_a standard, not âçÿëèMar 15 19:34
balzacevery single dude in that strip club had to be jealous of my "pimp-force"Mar 15 19:36
_Hicham_balzac : do u live in NYC?Mar 15 19:36
balzacyepMar 15 19:36
balzacI've been to high-end clubs in manhattan, but this was the best lap-dance i've ever had.Mar 15 19:37
balzacThe only thing better would be the champagne room service in a high-end club in manhattan. I can't afford that yet.Mar 15 19:38
Balrog_get a lifeMar 15 19:39
balzacwell, then some dude came up and farted, like a terrorist, trying to ruin my momentMar 15 19:40
balzacI told the girls, someone farted. i know it was you or you, it was some dude who was jealous of what i had.Mar 15 19:40
balzac[I know it *wasn't*]Mar 15 19:42
amarsh04_weird, k3b verify worked for dvd, but not for cd, both burned from iso, yet a manual verify of the burned cd's show them to be good alsoMar 15 19:42
joseBalrog_, i googled a bit but didn't find anything. the easiest mapping i can think of would be from the cp1251 range to something in the ascii range..Mar 15 19:42
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Balrog_jose: I'll use the webapp for now. :/Mar 15 19:43
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Balrog_would Scribus be good for someone used to Pagemaker (now obsolete)?Mar 15 19:43
josecan you tell me what keyboard keys (qwerty) get each of the cp1251 characters you want?Mar 15 19:43
_Hicham_balzac : u should have a strong perfume in such occasionsMar 15 19:43
_Hicham_a spray that will dissipate the bad fartMar 15 19:43
balzac_Hicham_: I handled it with good public relations skillsMar 15 19:43
balzacI blamed it on the "terrorist" who fartedMar 15 19:44
balzacI knew it wasn't either one of my big-legged beauties, and I knew it wasn't me. It was a jealous man who didn't have the guts to step up and get dissed.Mar 15 19:44
_Hicham_the bouncers should close every asshole to prevent thisMar 15 19:45
_Hicham_:DMar 15 19:45
balzacThey should just add it to the sign on the front door. "No Farting Allowed"Mar 15 19:46
balzacbecause it's a strip club and you've got no business breaking wind in there why people are trying to enjoy the girls.Mar 15 19:46
balzacThen, add another signMar 15 19:47
joseBalrog_ was searching for scribus plugins for cp1251 but had no luck.. maybe you want to try that. i would be surprised if this problem was solved long agoMar 15 19:47
josewas -> wasn'tMar 15 19:47
balzac"Be an Eagle-Eyes Snitch and Get Rich" "If any man in your vicinity farts, tell the bouncer."Mar 15 19:47
Balrog_no, meaning for the person who's using pagemakerMar 15 19:47
balzac$20 reward for turning them inMar 15 19:47
Balrog_jose: would switching to scribus be that bad?Mar 15 19:47
josehttp://www.sourcexchange.de/?page=Sho...Mar 15 19:48
balzacThen if one of the girls doesn't like a guy, she can fart and someone will blame it on him, he'll get thrown out.Mar 15 19:48
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josethat link i just gave shows that you only need 4 different "lookups" to map cd1251 to utf8Mar 15 19:49
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josepublic domain java functionMar 15 19:49
Balrog_jose: not badMar 15 19:50
Balrog_let me try itMar 15 19:50
jose:-) hope it worksMar 15 19:50
josenothing complex is going on so the license shouldn't be an issue in any caseMar 15 19:50
Balrog_well the webapp worksMar 15 19:51
Balrog_it's public domain codeMar 15 19:51
_Hicham_balzac : I am transforming my Ubuntu into a Debian SidMar 15 19:51
balzacslickMar 15 19:51
josecan you isolate the cp1251 text (no header file and other embeded stuff)?Mar 15 19:51
balzacI'll do that with one of my Ubuntu installationsMar 15 19:51
joseif so, then you can build yourself a quick utility for future useMar 15 19:51
Balrog_yeah, just copy/pasteMar 15 19:52
balzacMan, was I feeling the ubuntu last night!Mar 15 19:52
joseokMar 15 19:52
Balrog_all the formatting gets lostMar 15 19:52
joseoh, you want the formatting as well, right?Mar 15 19:52
balzacAlso, there's a hot girl who wants me to put ubuntu into her computerMar 15 19:52
josei don't know about pagemaker.. if you can read this then presumably it uses an open-ish formatMar 15 19:52
Balrog_jose: nope.Mar 15 19:53
Balrog_I have pagemaker-compatible appsMar 15 19:53
josenot open or you don't want formatting?Mar 15 19:53
joseokMar 15 19:53
jose$$ ?Mar 15 19:53
Balrog_I don't care about the formattingMar 15 19:53
Balrog_I just don't want çàïðîøóåìîMar 15 19:53
josewell, if you isolate all the text into a file by itself, then a simple util should workMar 15 19:54
Balrog_jose: I have friends who are graphics designers and give me older versionsMar 15 19:54
joseokMar 15 19:54
Balrog_I don't do new stuff in them, but they are useful in cases like thisMar 15 19:54
josedo you know java.. did you udnerstand that function?Mar 15 19:54
Balrog_this problem comes from lack of Unicode support in the original appMar 15 19:54
Balrog_http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/vi...Mar 15 19:54
Balrog_yes, I know java well enoughMar 15 19:54
Balrog_it looks like it's doing some sort of shiftingMar 15 19:55
josesimple app that opens stdin and reads, applies that function, spits the buffer to stdout, and endsMar 15 19:55
Balrog_yes.Mar 15 19:55
joseyeah, like sending code 233 to a smaller numberMar 15 19:56
joseit's uniform mappingMar 15 19:56
joseno lookup table because in all cases you get the result by the same subtractionMar 15 19:56
Balrog_yes.Mar 15 19:56
Balrog_why can't they just support unicode? I hope current adobe stuff supports it ....Mar 15 19:56
joseanyway, you can just copy/paste that func and compile itMar 15 19:56
Balrog_though I wouldn't exactly encourage use of itMar 15 19:57
Balrog_I just have to write a wrapper around that funcMar 15 19:57
Balrog_*methodMar 15 19:57
josemyconverter textfiletoconver > newfilethatisgoodMar 15 19:58
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Balrog_yesMar 15 19:58
Balrog_or 'myconverter < textfiletoconver > newfilethatisgood'Mar 15 19:58
joseassuming you wrap the jvm call in simple one line shell scriptMar 15 19:58
Balrog_yeah ...Mar 15 19:58
joseotherwise it's: java .... whateverMar 15 19:58
Balrog_what about gcj in this situation?Mar 15 19:58
josedon't use itMar 15 19:59
Balrog_elaborat.Mar 15 19:59
Balrog_s/t/teMar 15 19:59
josei just mean that i haven't used gcjMar 15 19:59
Balrog_o ok.Mar 15 19:59
josenot because it is bad .. i haven't compiled java in a whileMar 15 19:59
joseand when i did, i'm not sure if gcj was an option i knew aboutMar 15 20:00
josei used whatever sun provided.Mar 15 20:00
Balrog_ok.Mar 15 20:01
Balrog_java is foss now (from sun)Mar 15 20:01
joselet me pre-empt the lecture in using foss...Mar 15 20:01
joseby saying i would only use it now if possible and would checkMar 15 20:01
josebut haven't been coding recentlyMar 15 20:01
MinceRisn't only icedtea foss?Mar 15 20:02
MinceRor did that become the official java?Mar 15 20:02
Balrog_no, full java isMar 15 20:02
josehttp://www.ustrem.org/en/artic...Mar 15 20:02
Balrog_but much of the HotSpot JVM is assembly, therefore the need for IcedTeaMar 15 20:02
Balrog_The SNMP library was still a blob last time I checkedMar 15 20:02
Balrog_not sure if that was reimplemented as foss yet.Mar 15 20:03
josethat php code can probably be changed easily to something else (eg, perl, python, maybe bash) for those that knowMar 15 20:03
josebut php can be run from the command line so i don't think there is a problemMar 15 20:03
joseBalrog_, maybe the webapp you used uses that php func.. ;-)Mar 15 20:04
Balrog_maybeMar 15 20:05
josethat -> thoseMar 15 20:05
Balrog_but that webapp does much more than cp1251Mar 15 20:05
schestowitzjose: yes, I've covered it: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/... (Department of Homeland Security ‘Poisoned’ by Microsoft; Vista 7 is Open to Hijackers Again)Mar 15 20:05
joseah, but i said "uses" not "is entirely composed of nothing but..."Mar 15 20:05
Balrog_yes, I know :PMar 15 20:05
josei'm playing around.. i should get to more serious workMar 15 20:05
Balrog_schestowitz: explainMar 15 20:06
joseok schestowitzMar 15 20:06
josethat was news from i think 4 days backMar 15 20:06
schestowitzzer0c00l: any details/links about these "bootcamp" bribes would be appreciatedMar 15 20:06
josei figured you had covered it and that i missed it or just didn't rememberMar 15 20:06
zer0c00lyeahMar 15 20:07
zer0c00lwill send you by mail shortlyMar 15 20:07
schestowitztwitter: the Finland story I have from a reliable source. OSI blog linked to it, as well as other sites.Mar 15 20:08
joseBalrog_ fyi/fwiw, i got those links by googling for "cp1251 converter"Mar 15 20:08
Balrog_thanksMar 15 20:08
schestowitz                        _Hicham_: _Hicham_> Roy : u should write a post about unicodeMar 15 20:10
schestowitzWhat about it?Mar 15 20:10
Balrog_is there anything about unicode in that post?Mar 15 20:10
_Hicham_Roy : Balrog is suffering from unicode compatibilityMar 15 20:11
PetoKrausin-*Mar 15 20:11
schestowitz      > balzac: "I bought one girl a champagne and the other a shot"Mar 15 20:12
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schestowitzWhat kind of shot?Mar 15 20:12
MinceRHeadshot!Mar 15 20:12
MinceR^_^Mar 15 20:12
schestowitz         >"  every single dude in that strip club had to be jealous of my "pimp-force""Mar 15 20:12
_Hicham_balzac : where r u ?Mar 15 20:12
schestowitzYou mean pimp-fu, right?Mar 15 20:12
Balrog_(balzac: get a life)Mar 15 20:13
MinceRuse the Pimp-Force, Luke!Mar 15 20:13
joseschestowitz, proprietary secret meant to induce compatibilityMar 15 20:13
josei know it sounds wrongMar 15 20:13
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joseturning on away modeMar 15 20:15
schestowitzBalrog: it's there in the post: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/12...Mar 15 20:16
PetoKrausanywayMar 15 20:16
PetoKrausanyone of you needing a place to sleep for a night or a couple when you'll be in the proximity of glasgowMar 15 20:16
PetoKrausdrop me an emailMar 15 20:17
Balrog_schestowitz: where in the post?Mar 15 20:17
schestowitz_Hicham_: is unicode relevant to BN's main theme?  For a post?Mar 15 20:17
PetoKraussince yesterday, i've got a free room in my flat ;)Mar 15 20:17
_Hicham_Roy : microsoft is still enforcing its codepageMar 15 20:18
schestowitzBalrog: the DHS partMar 15 20:18
_Hicham_the 1252 i thinkMar 15 20:18
Balrog__Hicham_: enforcing?Mar 15 20:18
schestowitzMaybe we talk about different thingsMar 15 20:18
schestowitzDHS also puts back doors in WindowsMar 15 20:18
schestowitzThough I don't know the relationship between NSA and DHSMar 15 20:18
schestowitzI imagine them and CIA/FBI are close enoughMar 15 20:18
schestowitz_Hicham_: oh, I see..Mar 15 20:19
schestowitz_Hicham_: is it news though?Mar 15 20:19
schestowitzWas it covered elsewhere?Mar 15 20:19
Balrog_how are they 'enforcing' 1252?Mar 15 20:20
_Hicham_Roy : it is not news, but it making people's life harderMar 15 20:20
schestowitzThe IEE is on the MSBBC's ass.Mar 15 20:22
schestowitzThey've just mailed meMar 15 20:22
schestowitzNo wonder the BBC is posting in BN (damage contro)Mar 15 20:22
schestowitzbrb, it's good that the BBC watchdogs take notice.Mar 15 20:24
Balrog_BBC posting in BN? where?Mar 15 20:25
zer0c00lschestowitz: please check your email :)Mar 15 20:31
zer0c00lmicrosoft bribes students for designing websites using ASP.NET and silverlight http://www.goalivechallenge.co...Mar 15 20:32
*zer0c00l wonders why they are doing this in indiaMar 15 20:32
*zer0c00l also wonders it only happens in india?Mar 15 20:33
Balrog_:(Mar 15 20:33
Balrog_there are professors at my school that push SLMar 15 20:33
zer0c00lSL?Mar 15 20:34
Balrog_silver lightMar 15 20:34
zer0c00lyou push it back at themMar 15 20:34
zer0c00lshow them drupal or joomlaMar 15 20:34
zer0c00lor some thing more coolMar 15 20:35
zer0c00lwhich is in ossMar 15 20:35
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Balrog_I'm using wordpress for a site right nowMar 15 20:36
Balrog_I may switch to Drupal in the futureMar 15 20:36
zer0c00lBalrog_ :gr8Mar 15 20:36
zer0c00lokMar 15 20:36
Balrog_but the hosting plan allows for only one MySQL database :(Mar 15 20:36
zer0c00lBalrog_ : they deliberately doing this?Mar 15 20:36
zer0c00loh free hosting?Mar 15 20:36
Balrog_who, the school?Mar 15 20:36
Balrog_no, it's barebonesMar 15 20:36
zer0c00lyeahMar 15 20:36
Balrog_paidMar 15 20:36
Balrog_don't know. these are older professorsMar 15 20:37
zer0c00ltell them that M$ is evilMar 15 20:37
zer0c00lshow them some good technology may be ajaxMar 15 20:37
zer0c00l:-)Mar 15 20:37
Balrog_they use the excuse that it's what employers want these daysMar 15 20:37
Balrog_(silverlight, adobe flex, etc)Mar 15 20:37
Balrog_idk if I told you but they teach VB.NET at this place tooMar 15 20:38
zer0c00lno employers dont want VB.NETMar 15 20:38
zer0c00lthey want people with creativityMar 15 20:38
Balrog_I have a friend that's convinced that ASP.NET is the way to goMar 15 20:38
Balrog_considers other stuff "toys"Mar 15 20:39
zer0c00lyou could learn all silverlight adobe etc etc laterMar 15 20:39
Balrog_(well not really a friend)Mar 15 20:39
Balrog_yeah, they also teach C#Mar 15 20:39
Balrog_information science majors must take a year of VB.NET based programmingMar 15 20:40
zer0c00lsee M$ tech will be easy to learn ,you can do anything very quickly,atlast u get nothingMar 15 20:40
zer0c00llolMar 15 20:40
Balrog_that's what I tell himMar 15 20:40
zer0c00lwhich school?Mar 15 20:40
Balrog_(the 'friend')Mar 15 20:40
Balrog_doesn't careMar 15 20:40
Balrog_PM?Mar 15 20:40
zer0c00lyeah dont care about themMar 15 20:40
Balrog_pm is ok?Mar 15 20:40
zer0c00lpm?Mar 15 20:40
Balrog_(private message)Mar 15 20:41
zer0c00lokMar 15 20:41
zer0c00l:)Mar 15 20:41
schestowitz           Balrog_> BBC posting in BN? where?Mar 15 20:42
schestowitzBalrog_> BBC posting in BN? where?Mar 15 20:43
schestowitzBalrog: Some posts (critique)Mar 15 20:43
schestowitzzer0c00l: thanks, got it.Mar 15 20:46
schestowitzit's a lot of workMar 15 20:46
zer0c00l:)Mar 15 20:46
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balzacThat's a pretty sweet promotional video for the Linux kernelMar 15 21:25
MinceRhttp://news.slashdot.org/arti...Mar 15 21:25
balzacLuckily I'm working on some GNU-branded promotional materials.Mar 15 21:25
MinceRthe corporate puppet is at it againMar 15 21:25
balzacACTAtorship - that's goodMar 15 21:27
schestowitzMinceR: the robber robs some moreMar 15 21:27
schestowitztax evasion not enoughMar 15 21:28
schestowitzThey want to TAX the public.Mar 15 21:28
balzacYou know who is a good help on resisting this kind of thing - George Soros with his Open Society Institute.Mar 15 21:28
schestowitzWhile not paying taxMar 15 21:28
schestowitzBalrog: I don't believe in SorosMar 15 21:28
balzacThere's two OSIs, Open Soceity Institute and the Open Source Initiative.Mar 15 21:28
schestowitz Open Society Institute=PRMar 15 21:28
balzacyeah, well Soros is no clownMar 15 21:28
schestowitzIt's one of the "Get offa my friggin' back' orgsMar 15 21:29
MinceRalso, http://yro.slashdot.org/arti...Mar 15 21:29
MinceRis there no such thing as "public domain" for patents in the usa?Mar 15 21:29
balzacSoros funds Media Matters. They respond immediately and effectively to a lot of reich-wing propagandists.Mar 15 21:30
balzacAlso, Open Society Institute is involved in something IT-related which is beneficial, but I can't remember exactly what, off hand.Mar 15 21:31
balzacoh yeah, OSI (Soros' OSI) is funding the EFF, IIRC.Mar 15 21:32
balzachttp://www.eff.org/press/arc...Mar 15 21:33
balzacSurveillance Self-Defense was created with the support of the Open Society Institute.Mar 15 21:33
balzachttp://ssd.eff.orgMar 15 21:33
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MinceR...though maybe they'll have to threaten the bad guys with patent lawsuits to survive.Mar 15 21:34
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twitterA good article on M$ tax evasion http://crosscut.com/2008/02...Mar 15 21:42
twitterSlashdot did front page the Bridge to M$ story.Mar 15 21:43
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schestowitz"I tried Opensuse 11 for awhile and I liked it but i went back to Fedora 10 due to technical issues. However, Novell's cosy relationship with Microsoft is another subconscious reason for my shift back to my favorite OS. In the long wrong,"  http://www.mixx.com/stories/4156186/mi...Mar 15 22:02
balzachttp://www.youtube.com/watc...Mar 15 22:03
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schestowitzjoy!Mar 15 22:07
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trmancohahaMar 15 22:08
schestowitz"I still use openSUSE and have not noticed any difference between what SuSE did and where openSUSE is at present. Apart from the fact that the deal always seemed odious, no noticeable impact has surfaced." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story....Mar 15 22:09
trmanco50 Successful Open Source Projects That Are Changing Medicine: http://nursingassistantguides.com/... <- I little old, I knowMar 15 22:10
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schestowitzBalrog: idiots like them put the life of others at risk. Maybe they should just go splat and end itMar 15 22:10
schestowitzThese stunts are no Jackass 'fun'Mar 15 22:10
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story... "This is what a lot of companies partnering Microsoft don't seem to get - if you put Microsoft ahead of your customers, expect your customers to leave."Mar 15 22:11
schestowitztrmanco: thanks, got it downMar 15 22:11
trmancoit was RT'd by GlynMar 15 22:11
schestowitzOK, good.Mar 15 22:12
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/1... <- I think it's the longest I've ever doneMar 15 22:13
trmancowowMar 15 22:13
trmancohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWee...Mar 15 22:13
schestowitzMicrosoft news was dry this week. Good.Mar 15 22:15
schestowitzThey have nothing going anymore (except workforce reductions, canceled products/services)Mar 15 22:15
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/enviro... ('Biochar' goes industrial with giant microwaves to lock carbon in charcoal)Mar 15 22:16
schestowitzAssimilation to the extreme: Dalai Lama warns of Tibetan culture's 'extinction' < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2... >Mar 15 22:17
balzacIf the Chinese government is going to claim that Tibet is part of China, and Tibetans are actually Chinese, then Hu Jintao should be wearing a big yellow Tibetan Lama's hat.Mar 15 22:19
schestowitzMicrosoft news for past week: 430 excl. the dupesMar 15 22:19
schestowitzNews about "Windows 7": 15Mar 15 22:19
schestowitzThe non-existent programMar 15 22:19
schestowitzI'm surveying like this every weekMar 15 22:19
balzacGoogle should do a Tibetan holiday theme on their logo one day. I doubt they'd have the nerve to ruffle the feathers of the Chinese government.Mar 15 22:20
schestowitzSince the business press is funded by the business they refrain from challenging the PRMar 15 22:20
schestowitzBalrog: google has investorsMar 15 22:20
balzacs/rog/zacMar 15 22:20
schestowitzPR is just some excuse to get people off your back to themMar 15 22:20
schestowitzThey are obliged to make tghe Chinese government happyMar 15 22:21
schestowitzThe investors decideMar 15 22:21
balzacnot sure if that's the right syntax because I actually don't use awk and sed yetMar 15 22:21
schestowitzShareholder vote with walletMar 15 22:21
balzacdamned share-holdersMar 15 22:21
schestowitzThere is no account for ethics in this framework of busienss.Mar 15 22:21
balzacI wish Bernie Madoff had lost their moneyMar 15 22:21
schestowitz:-)Mar 15 22:21
schestowitzWould be better had he not been bornMar 15 22:21
balzaccome on now. don't you think that's a bit harsh?Mar 15 22:22
schestowitzReports: Microsoft Cripples Windows 7 Starter Edition in Hopes of Netbook Upgrades < http://www.dailytech.com/Reports+Micros... >. I think I covered thisMar 15 22:22
balzacBernie was generous with everyone else's moneyMar 15 22:22
schestowitzbalzac: no, ot harsh at allMar 15 22:22
balzache was like Santa Claus, but then he made a miscalculation and now he's treated like the devil.Mar 15 22:22
schestowitzVista news: 4Mar 15 22:23
schestowitzSo here is how it goesMar 15 22:23
schestowitzIn one week, the non-existent product got 4 times more publicity than the flagship productMar 15 22:23
schestowitzThat's vapourware tactics. Model example.Mar 15 22:23
schestowitzThink 7Mar 15 22:24
schestowitzThink promisesMar 15 22:24
schestowitzIt WILL be greatMar 15 22:24
schestowitzWILL=MIGHTMar 15 22:24
schestowitzForget VistaMar 15 22:24
Balrog_"iPhone 3.0 Copy and Paste Described"Mar 15 22:24
schestowitzI.e. forget about what we offerMar 15 22:24
Balrog_http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/1...Mar 15 22:24
Balrog_still a rumorMar 15 22:24
MinceRwow, maybe the jesusPhone 4.0 in 2012 will have the functionality a real smartphone had years ago!Mar 15 22:26
MinceRcrApple -- yesterday's technology at tomorrow's price.Mar 15 22:26
Balrog_a real smartphone <<< stable?Mar 15 22:26
Balrog_capacitive touchscreen or crappy resistive?Mar 15 22:26
schestowitzMinceR: did we tell you it shiiiiiny?Mar 15 22:27
MinceRoh, i knowMar 15 22:27
MinceRso many sprinkles on a piece of turd.Mar 15 22:27
schestowitzBut it hard a sharp issueMar 15 22:27
schestowitzThe first iteration..Mar 15 22:28
balzacbbiabMar 15 22:28
schestowitzPeople's iPhone got worn off and broken apart even in gym bagsMar 15 22:28
schestowitzIt just broke to small pieces over timeMar 15 22:28
schestowitzMaybe they changed manufacturers in G3Mar 15 22:28
schestowitzBut anyway, when you buy it, it's shinyMar 15 22:28
Balrog_you mean the apple logo?Mar 15 22:28
schestowitzBalrog: I think the screenMar 15 22:29
schestowitzIt was published in some places at the timeMar 15 22:29
schestowitzI'm quite indifferent when it comes to phonesMar 15 22:29
Balrog_hm. I didn't hear too much about it, but it *is* glass :)Mar 15 22:29
Balrog_and yes, I do see broken ones on occasionMar 15 22:29
Balrog_one nasty thing about the first-gen iphone is that to fix broken glass, you need a whole new new screen assembly (including LCD panel)Mar 15 22:30
Balrog_expensive :(Mar 15 22:30
Balrog_the never ones have a two-part touchscreen and LCDMar 15 22:30
Balrog_I wonder how the android is...?Mar 15 22:30
Balrog_(I've disassembled the 1st-gen iphone)Mar 15 22:32
MinceR"the android" is an OS, not a deviceMar 15 22:33
Balrog_err, T-Mobile G1Mar 15 22:33
Balrog_sorry :(Mar 15 22:33
schestowitzG1 is fugly, IMHOMar 15 22:35
schestowitzBut it's useful for the user... kb and allMar 15 22:35
Balrog_yeah, if you like keyboards :PMar 15 22:36
Balrog_I don't think keyboards are always a good idea: many moving parts, high relative chance of failureMar 15 22:36
schestowitzYo MinceR, check out what your buddy sez: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-so...Mar 15 22:37
schestowitzAnd he's poisoning others (Asay)Mar 15 22:37
schestowitzBalrog: let's use a notepad instead. Fire is the worst enemy :-)Mar 15 22:38
MinceRhe's not my buddyMar 15 22:38
Balrog_heh, a notepad :)Mar 15 22:38
schestowitzBalrog: a bit sour grapey, no?Mar 15 22:38
Balrog_schestowitz: about?Mar 15 22:38
schestowitzWhy have a kb on my PC?Mar 15 22:38
schestowitzI can have on-screen keyboard to mouse overMar 15 22:38
schestowitzFewer moving partsMar 15 22:38
Balrog_because I have five fingers, and the size is rightMar 15 22:38
schestowitzLess risk spilling tea on it ;-)Mar 15 22:38
Balrog_with portable devices, you lose a lot of the benefit of a full-size keyboardMar 15 22:39
Balrog_(no touch typing possible)Mar 15 22:39
schestowitzYou can still connect themMar 15 22:39
MinceRBalrog_: and i still keep a lot of themMar 15 22:39
schestowitzDoes iphone have peripherals like kb?Mar 15 22:39
Balrog_yes, that should be possible, definitelyMar 15 22:39
schestowitzBut is there?Mar 15 22:39
MinceRa peripheral is a lot less handy thereMar 15 22:39
Balrog_the only peripherals I know of is a TTY device for blind peopleMar 15 22:40
schestowitzMy 8 yo palm had itMar 15 22:40
MinceRa clip-on thumbboard might work but i doubt they make those for the jesusPhoneMar 15 22:40
schestowitzBalrog: what would be the point?Mar 15 22:40
Balrog_well, the iphone doesn't have a 'word processor' appMar 15 22:40
schestowitzThey can't see if it's shinyMar 15 22:40
schestowitzThey might as well get a cheaper phoneMar 15 22:40
Balrog_err not blinkMar 15 22:40
Balrog_blind *Mar 15 22:40
Balrog_deafMar 15 22:40
schestowitzAhMar 15 22:40
Balrog_typing without thinking :PMar 15 22:40
schestowitzWhy was opy and paste removed?Mar 15 22:41
schestowitzOpenClip?Mar 15 22:41
schestowitzSecurity reasons?Mar 15 22:41
schestowitz'Security'Mar 15 22:41
Balrog_yes. to implement it, it was writing in a different app's sandbox.Mar 15 22:41
Balrog_you can't do that on any platform with sandboxesMar 15 22:41
schestowitzWith iPhone, 'Security' Is Code for 'Control' < http://www.schneier.com/essay-204.html >Mar 15 22:42
Balrog_(sandbox is supposed to be restricted to one app)Mar 15 22:42
schestowitz:-)Mar 15 22:42
schestowitzWelcome back single-tasking :-)Mar 15 22:42
Balrog_on ANY platform :OMar 15 22:42
MinceRi hated palmos 5 precisely because it had no multitaskingMar 15 22:42
Balrog_there *should* be global storage thoughMar 15 22:42
MinceR(except for really ugly interrupt-driven hacks not many apps did)Mar 15 22:43
Balrog_oh, the iphone is perfectly capable of multitaskingMar 15 22:43
Balrog_Apple's own software does itMar 15 22:43
MinceRit just won't do it for youMar 15 22:43
MinceRbecause you're not cool enough to be worthyMar 15 22:43
Balrog_but multitasking can be terrible for battery lifeMar 15 22:43
MinceRand not being able to multitask can be terrible for achieving what i need to doMar 15 22:43
Balrog_if I have terminal (with four shell sessions) open in the background, the battery drains at an increased rateMar 15 22:44
schestowitzThe Dennis Byron troll is at it again, peddling the Vole... "On February 26, some organization called Wikileaks (just what you think it means).."Mar 15 22:44
MinceRi wonder whether functionality or battery life is more importantMar 15 22:44
MinceRdecisions, decisionsMar 15 22:44
Balrog_well, users don't like phantom apps that reduce battery life without telling themMar 15 22:44
MinceRhm, when did those "phantom apps" appear?Mar 15 22:44
Balrog_something need to be done to show users how much battery life will they useMar 15 22:44
schestowitzBalrog: I doubt it affects batteryMar 15 22:44
schestowitzIt just used more RAMMar 15 22:44
Balrog_phantom apps are those that run in the background that shouldn'tMar 15 22:44
schestowitzIf you run multiple appsMar 15 22:44
schestowitzYou do a normal round-robinMar 15 22:45
Balrog_schestowitz: It depends. If an app uses a daemon, it may reduce batteryMar 15 22:45
schestowitzIf implemented properly it should be cheapMar 15 22:45
Balrog_or if it fetches data from networkMar 15 22:45
Balrog_yes, but how will the end-user know if it's implemented properly?Mar 15 22:45
schestowitzBalrog: let itMar 15 22:45
schestowitzIt needs itMar 15 22:45
schestowitzIf it probes network, it has reason toMar 15 22:46
schestowitzElse, reprogram appMar 15 22:46
MinceRor perhaps the user should care about what he's runningMar 15 22:46
Balrog_it has reason to. But the user needs to know that it's probing network and that it will reduce battery life.Mar 15 22:46
Balrog_also, apps shouldn't 'waste' CPU in the background.Mar 15 22:47
Balrog_a badly programmed one willMar 15 22:47
Balrog_install two or three or more apps, and how do you know which is the culprit without complicated (for typical users) tracking?Mar 15 22:48
MinceRthe device should do what i want it to do, not what some marketers in Cupertino decided what a complete idiot could cope with.Mar 15 22:49
MinceRif i wanted a device idiots can handle, i'd have bought the cheapest, dumbest phone i could get a hold of.Mar 15 22:49
Balrog_yes, it should. But they don't want idiots calling and saying "Why doesn't this work?"Mar 15 22:49
Balrog_what about non-technical users who aren't idiots? Not everyone is a geek like us :PMar 15 22:50
MinceRi'm tired of having apple fanboys tell me how great that crap they've paid through the nose is, when in fact it isn't.Mar 15 22:50
Balrog_answer that last question. what about non-technical users?Mar 15 22:50
MinceRthey should aim for a device that does what they want and what they can handleMar 15 22:53
MinceRthere's probably a wide spectrum of devices that can potentially be usefulMar 15 22:53
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Mar 15 22:55
schestowitzApple Beats Microsoft to 25000 Mobile Apps  < http://www.appscout.com/2009/03/app... >Mar 15 22:55
Balrog_well the Mac is very much like that .... software wise ... at least in my experiencesMar 15 22:55
schestowitzIs that a good measure of much? It's not as though people use many apps?Mar 15 22:55
Balrog_that shows that the app store gives the opportunity to independent developersMar 15 22:56
schestowitzMark "Harvey Mudd College" as polluted by Microsoft interests: http://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2009/03...Mar 15 22:57
Balrog_schestowitz: I believe the community figured out how to unbrick those phones that got bricked.Mar 15 22:58
Balrog_and all updates will erase unauthorized software, because they just overwrite the system partitionMar 15 22:58
Balrog_(on the iphone)Mar 15 22:59
schestowitzThis is dumb: hey, Microsoft's stock in in the toilet, but "it makes me feel younger" :: Microsoft stock brings back that old feeling < http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht... >Mar 15 23:00
schestowitzBalrog: :-)) Don't get me started in brickingMar 15 23:00
schestowitzThose phones are merely rented, let's face itMar 15 23:00
schestowitzThe illusion of ownership, just like win32Mar 15 23:00
balzacRoy, do you think you might have a word with Mark Shuttleworth and ask him to have his ops let me back into #ubuntu?Mar 15 23:00
balzacI know he has commented on your blog before.Mar 15 23:00
schestowitzHoly batman! Watch this spin: http://www.mxlogic.com/security... http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/249156/con...Mar 15 23:01
schestowitzMicrosoft sloppiness attacks WindowsMar 15 23:01
schestowitzAnd the press portrays Microsoft as the white knight, a heroMar 15 23:02
schestowitzGo, go Microsoft! Beat those people who exploit your bad engineering.Mar 15 23:02
MinceRyes, the mac is aimed at the lowest level of intellect that's humanly possibleMar 15 23:02
schestowitzbalzac: I won't bother him with thatMar 15 23:02
schestowitzIt's redundantMar 15 23:02
MinceRand i'm offended when the apple fanboys are pushing it.Mar 15 23:02
balzacOk, I just thought I'd ask.Mar 15 23:03
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-176-161.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovellMar 15 23:03
schestowitzTry yourself.Mar 15 23:03
Balrog_heh ... then I wonder why it's widely used in scientific computing.Mar 15 23:03
Balrog_balzac: why did you get blocked?Mar 15 23:03
balzacI complained a bit.Mar 15 23:03
balzacFirst it was about audio problems: ALSA restarting not re-initializing my audio.Mar 15 23:04
balzacI said "I shouldn't have to reboot to get my audio back. That's for windows"Mar 15 23:04
balzacThen I made the implication that people struggle for position in the repositoriesMar 15 23:04
balzacI wondered aloud why certain packages were broken in the reposMar 15 23:05
schestowitzclaire.newman at canonical.comMar 15 23:05
balzacThis was in #ubuntu, and I was off-topicMar 15 23:05
balzacso they suggested #ubuntu-offtopicMar 15 23:05
balzacI complained about the nameMar 15 23:05
schestowitzBalrog: I think he asked about offtopicMar 15 23:05
schestowitzbeat me to it!Mar 15 23:05
schestowitzBalrog: we need bn-offtopic tooMar 15 23:06
balzacFedora has a channel for open conversation and it's called #fedora-social. I find "social" more inviting than "offtopic".Mar 15 23:06
schestowitzFor your stories about lap dances and such.Mar 15 23:06
balzacso then they were like, "do you have a problem"?Mar 15 23:06
balzacand said "yeah, I don't like the name #ubuntu-offtopic. It sounds too utilitarian, and it's named in such a way as to de-value the conversation which happens there"Mar 15 23:06
balzacanyway, they got the idea that I'm a whinerMar 15 23:07
*jose has quit ("Leaving")Mar 15 23:07
balzacwe hashed it out in #ubuntu-ops for a little while. I ended up banned from those three #ubuntu channelsMar 15 23:07
balzacI found myself discussing things with one of the ops in #defocusMar 15 23:07
balzacAnyway, I didn't take anything personally, nor did I make it personalMar 15 23:07
schestowitzHaha. Microsoft gets what it deserves: http://community.adn.com/a...Mar 15 23:08
schestowitzContext: http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com...Mar 15 23:08
balzacSo the next day I went back into #ubuntu as Dont_Tase_Me_BroMar 15 23:08
balzacI got re-routed to #ubuntu_opsMar 15 23:08
balzacI said, hey this is nice, it feels as if I've been invitedMar 15 23:08
balzacthey brought me there from #ubuntuMar 15 23:08
schestowitzSo they tased u?Mar 15 23:08
balzacbut then they banned me againMar 15 23:08
balzacessentiallyMar 15 23:09
schestowitzMaybe you teased themMar 15 23:09
balzacI think they could use a little decaf.Mar 15 23:09
Balrog_how did they know it was you? IP?Mar 15 23:09
schestowitzDepends how you phrased your suggestionMar 15 23:09
balzacI teased them, they tased me.Mar 15 23:09
schestowitzbalzac: at least they still let you into their reposMar 15 23:09
balzacAnyway, it was fun, and I look forward to more socializing with people from the #ubuntu crewMar 15 23:09
MinceRdon't tase me bro!Mar 15 23:10
balzacRoy, it's not like anyone can block anyone reallyMar 15 23:10
balzacthey can block my nickMar 15 23:10
schestowitzThe Giuliani Connection to the TASER Abuse Explosion < http://www.opednews.com/articles/... >Mar 15 23:10
Balrog_change it :PMar 15 23:10
Balrog_change nick, name, and IPMar 15 23:10
balzacUnless they're going for full biometric-based security with iris-scans or finger prints, I can get in there.Mar 15 23:10
balzacBut I want to be welcome under my chosen usernameMar 15 23:10
schestowitzTasers suffer design flaw, expert says < http://www.youtube.com/watc... >Mar 15 23:11
balzacI don't want to be thought of as a trollMar 15 23:11
balzacRoy, so I was asking about freenode policies in #defocusMar 15 23:12
balzacI think freenode is pretty free, all things considered. But certain channels are suffering a bit too much from corporate influence.Mar 15 23:12
balzacYour channel here is on the opposite end of the spectrum, where corporate criticism is free and un-restrained.Mar 15 23:13
balzacI still want to start a free software project for camgirl websitesMar 15 23:13
balzacI think it will be allowed if the freenode admins understand that I'm serious about itMar 15 23:14
schestowitzDont_Tase_Me_Bro is a trollish nicknameMar 15 23:14
schestowitzWhen I saw it in Bn I thought it would be a troll.Mar 15 23:15
balzacRoy, it was that, but it was also amusingMar 15 23:15
balzacI wasn't worried about being tased by youMar 15 23:15
schestowitzbalzac: libervis is also liberalMar 15 23:15
schestowitzIt's even anarchistic in naturerMar 15 23:15
balzacI was using the mibbit which I've configured from disruptech.com to use #boycottnovell as my free software chatMar 15 23:15
schestowitzi c....Mar 15 23:16
balzacand I was using that as a proxy to get around my #ubuntu ban, so I ended up in here firstMar 15 23:16
schestowitzIs there a newbuntu channel?Mar 15 23:16
schestowitzOr another where you can talk to moderators?Mar 15 23:17
balzacnot sureMar 15 23:17
balzacI have to figure out irssi's channel listing functionalityMar 15 23:17
balzacbut i'm not in a hurryMar 15 23:17
balzacanyway, the #ubuntu_op guys were pretty displeased with the ban evasionMar 15 23:18
balzacI was not concernedMar 15 23:18
balzacif ever freenode is configured in such a way as to prevent ban-evasion, it will no longer be freenodeMar 15 23:19
balzacwhat good is freedom if it isn't excercisedMar 15 23:19
balzacanyway, it's not a serious problem, only a bit of amusementMar 15 23:20
balzacI think they'll get over it and I'll socialize my way back inMar 15 23:20
Balrog_can't you do ban-evasion by changing name, nick, and IP?Mar 15 23:24
balzacsure I canMar 15 23:25
balzacbut I don't think I should have toMar 15 23:25
balzacI think they should drink more decafMar 15 23:25
balzacand change the name of #ubuntu-offtopic to #ubuntu-socialMar 15 23:25
balzacif the channel had a decent name, i never would have complained enough to get bannedMar 15 23:26
schestowitzthe chgannel name had recognitionMar 15 23:28
schestowitzQuite trying to change itMar 15 23:28
schestowitzIt would rightly upset themMar 15 23:28
schestowitzYou can't just magically change namesMar 15 23:28
balzacwell, they can always point the old name to the new nameMar 15 23:28
balzacI'm not trying magic, I'm making a rational argumentMar 15 23:28
schestowitzI would change from boycottnovell to something else if Shane hadn't started with this domain and site titleMar 15 23:29
balzacfirst you get scolded for chatting on the wrong subject in the support channelMar 15 23:29
schestowitzOftopic is fineMar 15 23:29
balzacand lets face it, irc ops can be quite impatient with peopleMar 15 23:29
schestowitzMany forums and chats in site have "off topic" areasMar 15 23:29
schestowitzSocial can be all sorts of thingsMar 15 23:30
balzacso then you get sent to a channel which has a name sounding like your conversation is considered unworthyMar 15 23:30
schestowitzIncluding main topicMar 15 23:30
balzacAt the very least, people who don't immediately respond to the robo-cop demand for immediate compliance need not be swept unceremoniously away like a bit of trash on the sidewalk.Mar 15 23:32
balzacIt's the "open source" mentality of efficiency being the highest goal. It's not social.Mar 15 23:32
balzacanyway, the problem is endemic on IRC, not a particular channel or network.Mar 15 23:34
balzacit won't change any time soon, but count me among those who aren't attached to keeping the status quoMar 15 23:34
schestowitzhehe. Microsoft's Kumo Will Only Come with Minor Tweaks < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2... > I.e. new name, no changeMar 15 23:34
schestowitzbalzac: it's debatableMar 15 23:35
schestowitzWATCH OUT, GOogle!! Microsoft might........ rename ... AGAIN... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic... (Microsoft considers new name for search: Kumo)Mar 15 23:36
schestowitzMS tried the same strategy in embedded. Same crap, new name... didn't workMar 15 23:36
schestowitzVista->Vista7Mar 15 23:36
schestowitzWait and watch.......Mar 15 23:36
balzacypMar 15 23:37
balzacRoy, I hope you're thinking about what to do once Novell/Microsoft become irrelevantMar 15 23:38
balzacyou've got a strong brand and a good readershipMar 15 23:38
balzacmaybe it's time for some co-branding to slip-stream a new brand alongside BN in order to transfer some of the brand recognitionMar 15 23:39
balzacPerhaps a brand which can exist in a commercial context some dayMar 15 23:40
balzacexcuse the over-chatting. I'm using adderall today.Mar 15 23:42
MinceRadderall?Mar 15 23:42
MinceRoh.Mar 15 23:42
*MinceR looked it up on WPMar 15 23:43
schestowitzMicrosoft Impersonator Sends Fraudulent Letters, Disrupts Community "It turns out that there may be an impersonator lurking around disrupting Windows Mobile communities." http://pocketnow.com/index.php?a=p...Mar 15 23:45
schestowitzbalzac: that makes sense,but Novell ain't going just yetMar 15 23:46
schestowitzBesides, people know BN is about more than NovellMar 15 23:46
MinceR"windows mobile communities"? what are those?Mar 15 23:46
schestowitzIn Google search they put in boycottnovell ot boycott novell like 1000 times/monthMar 15 23:46
MinceRschestowitz: even then, after m$ and novell are gone, a new name might be in order :)Mar 15 23:47
schestowitzChange=confusion and for technical reasons changing domain is parctically impossibleMar 15 23:47
schestowitzMinceR: yes, I thought that tooMar 15 23:47
balzacyeah, well maybe you can get another domain and begin to transfer some attention to itMar 15 23:48
MinceRthen again, it could be a memento of dark timesMar 15 23:48
schestowitzhttp://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-ele... (icrosoft Launches Wave of Local Training, Certification Events)Mar 15 23:48
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.67.79) has joined #boycottnovellMar 15 23:48
schestowitzbalzac: didn't work for GrokDocMar 15 23:48
schestowitzIt hardly gets anyone visiting itMar 15 23:49
schestowitzor GrokLine... it it existsMar 15 23:49
balzacwell, I'd go from BN >> schestowitz.com >> commercial endevourMar 15 23:49
schestowitzGrokQuote?Mar 15 23:49
schestowitzbalzac: no, too personalMar 15 23:49
balzacBN >> not for profit endevour >> associated corporationMar 15 23:49
schestowitzMicrosoft has been doing dirty s* in Malta and now this: Microsoft Malta inaugurates new office < http://www.independent.com.mt/n... >Mar 15 23:50
balzacor get on some boards of existing companies, set up a consulting companyMar 15 23:51
schestowitzbalzac: you think just in terms of $$Mar 15 23:51
balzaclately, yesMar 15 23:51
balzacbut not justMar 15 23:52
_Hicham_roy : who doesnt think in terms of $$?Mar 15 23:52
schestowitzSome people don;tMar 15 23:52
schestowitzMoney voids trustMar 15 23:52
schestowitzLook at the corrupted mediaMar 15 23:52
schestowitzCompanies like GE own itMar 15 23:52
schestowitzI'm not even a fan of getting mail from companiesMar 15 23:52
schestowitzThey just want to increase their $$Mar 15 23:53
balzacRoy, all you have to do to make it ethical is just announce you're shifting gears from industry watchdog to entrepreneur, then make appropriate disclosures.Mar 15 23:54
schestowitzSHILL:  Microsoft manager lists Bellevue home for $2.65M < http://seattle.blockshopper.com/news/... >Mar 15 23:54
Balrog_schestowitz: how is you phd work going?Mar 15 23:54
schestowitzBeing an arsehole pays off for Mr. beanMar 15 23:54
Balrog_you seem to spend so much time on BMMar 15 23:54
Balrog_BN*Mar 15 23:54
balzacSomeone who pays as much attention as you do to avoiding conflicts of interest and unethical business practices would probably be good to have in a company.Mar 15 23:55
schestowitzBalrog: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archive...Mar 15 23:56
balzacA GNU-branded company could not get far with your run-of-the-mill businessmen. They would cheapen the GNU brand like Miguel de Icaza cheapened the Gnome brand.Mar 15 23:56
schestowitzYuck. Caza Paza...Mar 15 23:56
schestowitzDon't forget where he came fromMar 15 23:56
balzacDon't judge him too harshly. He's just a guy who lacks vision.Mar 15 23:57
balzacwhere?Mar 15 23:57
schestowitzIt all started with him rying to get a JOB AT MICROSOFTMar 15 23:57
Balrog_how has it gone since then? It's almost a year  :OMar 15 23:57
balzacRightMar 15 23:57
schestowitzBalrog: I finished already. The deadline is 3 months away, so I sit on it :-)Mar 15 23:57
schestowitzCampus is good.Mar 15 23:57
Balrog_OK. So soon you'll be out of school, with a PhD, right?Mar 15 23:57
schestowitzYes.Mar 15 23:58
balzacKos from dailykos.com started by seeking employment with the CIA. Then he turns out to be rather like a mole in the organized political blogging scene.Mar 15 23:58
schestowitzI'll probably stick around, thoughMar 15 23:58
schestowitzWe'll see..Mar 15 23:58
Balrog_good. Some trolls say otherwise :PMar 15 23:58
balzacSame with Miguel - a bit of a mole, dragging down the scene from the inside.Mar 15 23:58
schestowitzBalrog: suspiciousMar 15 23:58
schestowitzGoogle's Matt Cutts was also a spooke, IIRCMar 15 23:58
Balrog_that should be :(Mar 15 23:58
schestowitzNow he's the secret engine guy dropping PRMar 15 23:59
balzacThat will be coolMar 15 23:59
schestowitzBalrog: what do trolls say?Mar 15 23:59
balzacPhD are some nice letters to have after your nameMar 15 23:59
schestowitzIf you put them there.Mar 15 23:59
schestowitzMost people I know don'tMar 15 23:59
schestowitzIt's patronisingMar 15 23:59
balzacof courseMar 15 23:59

Recent Techrights' Posts

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There will be more next week