Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 18th, 2009 - Part 3


Enter the IRC channel now

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

_Hicham_I didn't know that there is a lot of Ubuntu hatersMar 18 21:53
trmanco_Hicham_, they had to grab market share somehowMar 18 21:53
schestowitzMinceR: Apple doesn't do HTMLMar 18 21:53
schestowitzKDE did (KHTML)Mar 18 21:53
MinceRso how did they campaign against ogg theora in html5?Mar 18 21:53
_Hicham_trmanco : but since FF2, the plugin don't workMar 18 21:53
schestowitzApple does flashy widgets and ihtmlMar 18 21:53
trmancountil they finally stabilized with there own technologiesMar 18 21:53
schestowitzOh! and they have patents there inside the W3cc...Mar 18 21:54
schestowitzBut recent controversy btwMar 18 21:54
schestowitzThey poison the standard with landminesMar 18 21:54
_Hicham_MinceR : ogg theora is supported natively in FF3.1Mar 18 21:54
schestowitzLike RambusMar 18 21:54
trmanco_Hicham_, what plugin?Mar 18 21:54
MinceR_Hicham_: doesn't make it a w3c standard thoughMar 18 21:54
schestowitzIt should have been thatMar 18 21:54
schestowitzNokalle don't countMar 18 21:55
_Hicham_trmanco : Mozilla ActiveX pluginMar 18 21:55
trmancoha that crapMar 18 21:55
schestowitzPoetice justice, in codeMar 18 21:55
schestowitz*PoeticMar 18 21:55
trmancogood thing it doesn't work, was it official anyway?Mar 18 21:56
schestowitzMozilla detoxicated itself from Windows SnyderMar 18 21:56
schestowitzMS employeeMar 18 21:56
MinceRexcept for the "justice" partMar 18 21:56
trmancocode is poetryMar 18 21:56
schestowitzNo longer will Mozilla people 'praise' Microsoft... e.g. for securityMar 18 21:56
trmancobut it really depends on who writes this type of "poetry"Mar 18 21:56
schestowitz*Window, not Windows (Freudian slip)Mar 18 21:56
schestowitzLinus Torvalds: "Talk is cheap. Show me the code."Mar 18 21:57
trmancohehe, computer scientist quotes :-PMar 18 21:57
schestowitzWho is Alexander Larsson? 18 21:58
trmancoI wonder what it takes to be oneMar 18 21:58
schestowitzLinux File Systems: Ext4. Btrfs. Do we understand what we need? < >Mar 18 21:58
trmancothis might be the future jaunty background -> 18 22:00
MinceRbut what will karmic look like?Mar 18 22:06
MinceRthey said it won't be brownMar 18 22:06
MinceR(finally)Mar 18 22:06
schestowitztrmanco: COLA's been quiet for the past 2 days. I'll post some newsMar 18 22:07
schestowitzMinceR: yes, maybe not by default. WHo knows...Mar 18 22:07
Balrog__about the Mozilla ActiveX plugin:Mar 18 22:08
Balrog__<< This plug-in is not part of the Mozilla distribution and even if it were it would be disabled by default. It is extremely, hell-freezing-overly, unlikely that Mozilla is ever going to support ActiveX by default. This plug-in is designed for custom, legacy and intranet solutions and nothing else.Mar 18 22:08
MinceRthey could call the new theme Inhuman ;)Mar 18 22:08
schestowitzBrown is part of the Ubuntu identity/brand. Else it's JAG (Just another GNOME)Mar 18 22:08
MinceRperhaps it's time to switch ubuntu with kubuntu and rename ubuntu to gubuntu and kubuntu to ubuntu? :>Mar 18 22:08
schestowitzMinceR: should call it "OhMan!"Mar 18 22:09
MinceRor SuperhumanMar 18 22:09
schestowitzThat'd be MS styleMar 18 22:09
schestowitzUltimateMar 18 22:09
schestowitzSupra Ultra..Mar 18 22:09
schestowitz"Professional"Mar 18 22:09
schestowitzImplicitly: Apple is not professionaMar 18 22:09
schestowitzUbuntu is not "ultimate"Mar 18 22:09
MinceRwe know thatMar 18 22:09
MinceRneither is m$, thoughMar 18 22:09
schestowitzas in "not people-ready"Mar 18 22:09
schestowitzMinceR: not trueMar 18 22:09
MinceRReady for the Not-People?Mar 18 22:10
schestowitzWindows is very business read... for crackersMar 18 22:10
schestowitz"Letsa get down to bizniz!!"Mar 18 22:10
MinceRwindows is professional in the way a whore is.Mar 18 22:10
schestowitzIt's part of the MS ecosystemMar 18 22:10
schestowitzWait until crackers attack LinuxMar 18 22:10
schestowitzTo keep Windows hosts out there for pickingsMar 18 22:10
schestowitzMicrosoft: the Amsterdamn[sic] of OSesMar 18 22:11
schestowitz(not with extra Cr4ack (not the drug"Mar 18 22:12
schestowitz^typos.Mar 18 22:12
_Hicham_I read an anecdote in which they gathered a bunch of talented crackers to do a comparisonMar 18 22:16
_Hicham_how much will a Windows system resistMar 18 22:17
MinceRthat's a pretty degrading thing to say of Amsterdam.Mar 18 22:17
_Hicham_and how much a Linux system willMar 18 22:17
MinceRthere was an event with windows vs linux vs macosMar 18 22:17
_Hicham_well, a freshly installed Windows can't resist a secondMar 18 22:17
MinceRwindows was broken first, macos second, linux neverMar 18 22:17
_Hicham_while Linux (Debian)  has taken two month to be broken inMar 18 22:18
_Hicham_and guess what ?Mar 18 22:18
_Hicham_Windows was equipped with a firewallMar 18 22:18
_Hicham_while Debian was notMar 18 22:18
_Hicham_i am looking for that storyMar 18 22:18
schestowitzMinceR: Mac firstMar 18 22:21
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 18 22:21
schestowitzUbuntu/Mac/Windows security challenge last yearMar 18 22:22
schestowitzSAFARI~1.EXE did itMar 18 22:22
MinceRoh.Mar 18 22:22
schestowitzon the MacMar 18 22:22
schestowitz[no EXE.. just joking]Mar 18 22:22
schestowitz.MacMar 18 22:22
schestowitziSafMar 18 22:22
MinceR'look how elite we are, we can rip KHTML off and say it's ours'Mar 18 22:22
schestowitzAnd add GUIMar 18 22:23
schestowitzWith HCI stuffMar 18 22:23
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellMar 18 22:23
MinceRoh, yes, forgot the 'add a retarded, unusable gui' partMar 18 22:24
schestowitzI told you apple like fossMar 18 22:24
schestowitzFree codeMar 18 22:24
schestowitzApple likes freedom (of cost)Mar 18 22:24
schestowitzThere are one-man project that do the sameMar 18 22:24
schestowitzslap in some gecko, use gtk/qt/motif/whataveerMar 18 22:25
schestowitzChrome tooMar 18 22:25
schestowitzUses KHTMLMar 18 22:25
schestowitzThe ripped off versionMar 18 22:25
MinceRyes, they like it in the same way m$ doesMar 18 22:25
MinceRand they use it in the same way tooMar 18 22:25
Balrog__well, WebKit is foss ... not so with MS productsMar 18 22:26
MinceRosx isn't foss thoughMar 18 22:26
MinceRand neither is safariMar 18 22:26
Balrog__no (os x) it isn't and it probably won't be anytime soon.Mar 18 22:26
schestowitzMinceR: Apple is open (about it)Mar 18 22:27
MinceRscrewing around the API of the engine does no contribution makeMar 18 22:27
schestowitzMicrosoft uses BSD and keeps quietMar 18 22:27
Balrog__they are working on a GTK ui for WebKitMar 18 22:27
MinceRapple are?Mar 18 22:27
Balrog__the webkit peopleMar 18 22:27
Balrog__not sure if it's appleMar 18 22:27
MinceRso it's probably not appleMar 18 22:27
Balrog__also, the kernel is foss (if you consider APSL to be foss)Mar 18 22:27
MinceRso it has nothing to do with the discussion at handMar 18 22:27
Balrog__I'd assume Apple employees are helpingMar 18 22:28
MinceRi'd assume apple employees are trying to do more damage, just like they've ever doneMar 18 22:28
MinceRsteal the code, lock it down, add DRM, sell it for tons of $$$ and be smug about how clever you areMar 18 22:28
Balrog__MinceR: why do you blast Apple so much and not MS or the other more damaging ones?Mar 18 22:28
_Hicham_Apple employees didn't help even KDE developersMar 18 22:28
MinceRBalrog__: oh, i do blast m$ tooMar 18 22:29
_Hicham_the creators of KHTMLMar 18 22:29
Balrog___Hicham_: that did get set straight after a whileMar 18 22:29
MinceRBalrog__: it's just that apple cultists are so blinded by the RDF they don't notice when apple is doing the exact same things m$ isMar 18 22:29
Balrog__MinceR: this whole 'rdf' thing is overblownMar 18 22:30
Balrog__yes, there are some that are blindedMar 18 22:30
MinceRthat's what i'd expect an apple fanboy to sayMar 18 22:30
Balrog__but a large majority (of technical people) aren'tMar 18 22:30
Balrog__go to a rumor site and look at the forumsMar 18 22:30
Balrog__there are _a lot_ of complaintsMar 18 22:30
MinceRand yet when they talk to a non-cultist, all we hear is "it just works" and it's so great and we're so stupid because we don't use appleMar 18 22:31
Balrog__MinceR: hackintosh will never 'just work'Mar 18 22:31
MinceRand they keep telling me their jesusPhone is the second comingMar 18 22:31
MinceReven if i tell them a couple of fundamental ways it failsMar 18 22:32
Balrog__who are these people?Mar 18 22:32
MinceRapple fanboysMar 18 22:32
Balrog__MinceR: 'fundamental' ways?Mar 18 22:32
MinceRthey're everywhereMar 18 22:32
MinceRfundamental things one would expect from a smartphone?Mar 18 22:32
Balrog__no keyboard? there are problems with keyboards.Mar 18 22:32
MinceRyou know, the kind of phone you can get for a quarter of the price of a jesusPhone?Mar 18 22:32
Balrog__multitasking? battery life <<<Mar 18 22:32
Balrog__MinceR: I haven't seen a similar phone for $50Mar 18 22:33
Balrog__USDMar 18 22:33
Balrog__the G1 is more expensive, and doesn't even have the 8GB flashMar 18 22:33
MinceRthat reminds me of a story when apple cut a complete, fully developed feature from a sw they released because jobs thought it would confuse some usersMar 18 22:33
MinceRsee, that kind of contempt is what makes me really hate appleMar 18 22:33
Balrog__MinceR: how is that 'contempt'?Mar 18 22:34
MinceRthey practically tell their users "you're idiots and you'll buy any crap from us"Mar 18 22:34
MinceRand they doMar 18 22:34
Balrog__MinceR: what about featuritis? I don't think they want that in their productsMar 18 22:34
MinceRwindows might treat the user like a complete idiot, but it isn't in the same league apple products are inMar 18 22:34
Balrog__(many Linux apps have it, many many more Windows apps do)Mar 18 22:34
MinceRwhen they don't tell you it's 65536 colors because 'you don't need to know'Mar 18 22:34
Balrog__Isn't 'thousands' good enough? I mean you can go look it upMar 18 22:35
MinceRah, the myth of the feature set that's just enoughMar 18 22:35
MinceRi prefer to be told what it isMar 18 22:35
Balrog__heard of crappy japanese phones?Mar 18 22:35
Balrog__(with too many features)Mar 18 22:35
MinceRthere's no such thing as "too many features"Mar 18 22:35
Balrog__yes there isMar 18 22:35
MinceRdo you honestly expect to use every single feature of everything you buy?Mar 18 22:36
Balrog__if they don't work properly or are overly complicated, it's too manyMar 18 22:36
MinceRdo you honestly expect everyone else's needs to match yours exactly?Mar 18 22:36
Balrog__Fewer working features is better than many poorly implemented featuresMar 18 22:36
Balrog__MinceR: not my pointMar 18 22:36
MinceRdo you honestly expect your own needs to be constant?Mar 18 22:36
MinceRapple certainly doesMar 18 22:36
Balrog__<<Fewer working features is better than many poorly implemented featuresMar 18 22:36
Balrog__not MY needsMar 18 22:36
Balrog__*working* and I mean working wellMar 18 22:36
MinceRso your needs are unimportant?Mar 18 22:36
Balrog__my needs are important, but if the features that are supposed to meet my needs don't work half the time (or are overly complicated) then they're uselessMar 18 22:37
MinceRthat's an entirely different issue from "too many features"Mar 18 22:37
MinceRit's called bad qualityMar 18 22:37
Balrog__one thing Apple is doing is making sure all features have high quality before shippingMar 18 22:38
MinceRone thing apple is failing at, i seeMar 18 22:38
Balrog__MinceR: explain how they're failingMar 18 22:38
Balrog__at making sure /included/ features work wellMar 18 22:39
MinceRor do you consider bricking a mac on an os update "high quality"?Mar 18 22:39
Balrog__which update bricked macs?Mar 18 22:39
Balrog__??Mar 18 22:40
MinceR 18 22:40
MinceRthis oneMar 18 22:40
Balrog__If you're talking about the iphone, the community figured out how to unbrick themMar 18 22:40
Balrog__MinceR: that has happened to me with Windows AND LinuxMar 18 22:41
MinceRanother feature that works flawlessly: 18 22:41
Balrog__so far not with macMar 18 22:41
MinceRwow, the community figured out, that's great!Mar 18 22:41
MinceRis that what passes for "just works" around your people?Mar 18 22:41
Balrog__the community did the jailbreak / unlock in the first placeMar 18 22:41
MinceRsee, that's the RDF everyone else is talking aboutMar 18 22:41
MinceRyes, because they had toMar 18 22:41
MinceRbecause it's a locked down piece of shitMar 18 22:42
Balrog__therefore they did the unbrickingMar 18 22:42
MinceReverything from apple is a locked down piece of shitMar 18 22:42
MinceRand when i mention that, the fanboy says "but you can jailbreak it!"Mar 18 22:42
Balrog__there were some unlocks that did nasty things to the baseband back thenMar 18 22:42
MinceRthey don't care about warrantyMar 18 22:42
MinceRor if it breaks something elseMar 18 22:42
Balrog__so I wouldn't be surprised if updating such an unlocked device would break the basebandMar 18 22:42
MinceRin the mind of the apple fanboy, if it has an apple logo in it, it's perfect and it just worksMar 18 22:42
schestowitzMac have been bricked more than onceMar 18 22:42
schestowitzI saw incidents in 2005Mar 18 22:42
Balrog__MinceR: what other than the baseband could be bricked?Mar 18 22:43
schestowitzCLI-only on Mac bootMar 18 22:43
MinceRBalrog__: do i care what could be bricked in that overpriced paperweight?Mar 18 22:43
Balrog__schestowitz: there wer some problems with the imac G3 back in 2000 or soMar 18 22:43
schestowitzBut "mac rumours" sites won't talk about *that&Mar 18 22:43
MinceRif it's bricked, it's bricked.Mar 18 22:43
Balrog__There's rom recovery modeMar 18 22:43
schestowitzYesMar 18 22:43
schestowitzRecovery CDsMar 18 22:43
Balrog__aka DFU mode (in ipod/iphone)Mar 18 22:44
schestowitzLike global rest in Palm ISMar 18 22:44
schestowitz*OSMar 18 22:44
schestowitzHard resetMar 18 22:44
MinceRand if you'll follow the link, you'll see that it's about desktop macs, not the jesusPhone.Mar 18 22:44
Balrog__<< Device Failsafe UtilityMar 18 22:44
MinceRbtw i have a palm that bricked itselfMar 18 22:44
Balrog__Yes, resetting the PMU is considered standard procedure for dealing with problemsMar 18 22:45
Balrog__(on the Mac)Mar 18 22:45
Balrog__if it's hardwareMar 18 22:45
Balrog__explain about the Palm. I have one but it's unstableMar 18 22:45
Balrog__many times more unstable than an iphone/ipod touchMar 18 22:45
MinceRone month after the warranty expired it decided it won't boot anymoreMar 18 22:45
MinceRit's frozen at the boot screen, flashing a bar at the top of the screenMar 18 22:45
MinceRhard reset doesn't helpMar 18 22:45
Balrog__:(Mar 18 22:46
MinceRoh, and it took my data with itself, of courseMar 18 22:46
Balrog__that's nasty.Mar 18 22:46
Balrog__About the iphone .... even if it's bricked, only the cell / wifi stuff stops working. The rest is still okMar 18 22:47
Balrog__Basically the baseband is wrecked.Mar 18 22:47
Balrog__(this is only the 1st-gen)Mar 18 22:47
MinceRdoes it boot that way?Mar 18 22:47
Balrog__No, it boots the main CPU.Mar 18 22:47
Balrog__The CPU talks to the baseband using AT commandsMar 18 22:48
MinceRand the os is ok with the baseband not responding?Mar 18 22:48
Balrog__(think modems)Mar 18 22:48
Balrog__yes.Mar 18 22:48
MinceRbtw the main cpu part could be bricked too if the memory it boots from can be alteredMar 18 22:48
Balrog__but at the lowest level, it boots from *ROM*Mar 18 22:48
Balrog__and in that ROM, there's recovery modeMar 18 22:48
Balrog__that's why Apple couldn't patch the jailbreakMar 18 22:49
MinceRand where does it take the data to recover?Mar 18 22:49
Balrog__via USBMar 18 22:49
MinceRicMar 18 22:49
Balrog__<< Unlike the main s5l8900 CPU, the S-Gold can actually be brickedMar 18 22:50
Balrog__ 18 22:50
Balrog__remember this is the *baseband*Mar 18 22:50
Balrog__(which controls all radio comm)Mar 18 22:50
MinceRso you'd end up with a lame pdaMar 18 22:50
Balrog__when bricked, "Your cellphone and Edge and WiFi can be lost forever."Mar 18 22:51
MinceRinstead of the lame phone you begin withMar 18 22:51
MinceRvery comfortingMar 18 22:51
Balrog__yes, a lame PDA, without wifi or bluetoothMar 18 22:51
MinceRremember, this is a danger you take just to be able to install apps you wantMar 18 22:51
MinceR"just works" indeed.Mar 18 22:51
Balrog__now the 3G is very different....its baseband uses many levels of sigchecking and verificationMar 18 22:51
Balrog__the unlock for it is temporary ... it runs as a daemon that gets loaded each time the device is bootedMar 18 22:52
MinceRjust the thing i'm dreaming of running on a mobile deviceMar 18 22:52
MinceRit doesn't drain the battery does it? :>Mar 18 22:52
Balrog__no, because once it runs it doesn't have to keep runningMar 18 22:53
MinceRdoesn't sound like a daemon to meMar 18 22:53
Balrog__once the BB is running 'unlocked' code, you're okMar 18 22:53
MinceRthough somehow my qtek 9100 uses advanced technology that makes such things unnecessaryMar 18 22:53
Balrog__the daemon part makes sure it runs again if you go into airplane mode and back outMar 18 22:53
MinceRit wasn't locked to any provider when i bought itMar 18 22:53
Balrog__talk to AT&T or the providers :/Mar 18 22:53
MinceRi wonder when apple will gain access to such wonderful technology!Mar 18 22:53
Balrog__there ARE iphones is Europe and Asia that have unlocked iPhonesMar 18 22:54
MinceRno, talk to steve jobsMar 18 22:54
Balrog__be prepared to pay thoughMar 18 22:54
MinceRask him why he's so focused on screwing his own customersMar 18 22:54
MinceRvia lockdown and DRMMar 18 22:54
MinceRand ask yourself why you still bend over and smile while you get this treatmentMar 18 22:54
Balrog__MinceR: another problem: the radio in the iphone follows worldwide 3G standards.Mar 18 22:54
Balrog__T-Mobile chose not to follow themMar 18 22:54
Balrog__therefore, iphone + T-mobile in US == no-3GMar 18 22:54
MinceRwell, t-mobile (t-* in general) is all shades of crap here tooMar 18 22:55
Balrog__so what choice do you have? T-mobile and ATTMar 18 22:55
Balrog__(with an unlocked device)Mar 18 22:56
MinceRthey invented "unlimited internet access that has a limit" here in hungaryMar 18 22:56
Balrog__at least in the US it's like thatMar 18 22:56
MinceRhere we have t-mobile, pannon (telenor) and vodafoneMar 18 22:56
MinceRi'm using pannonMar 18 22:56
Balrog__source code to iphone 3g unlock: 18 22:56
MinceRi started with vodafone but i got tired of their crap service and didn't want to pay for overpriced gprsMar 18 22:56
Balrog__MinceR: here we also have Verizon and SprintMar 18 22:56
Balrog__but those are CDMA servicesMar 18 22:57
Balrog__no GSMMar 18 22:57
MinceRand t-mobile was quite obviously overpriced to start withMar 18 22:57
Balrog__here they're all overpricedMar 18 22:57
MinceRthey're probably all overpricedMar 18 22:57
MinceRbut t-mobile beats the others at that game hereMar 18 22:57
PeterFACell phone service...Mar 18 22:57
PeterFAAh, the telecoms.Mar 18 22:57
PeterFAIf I ever need a bona fide necessary evil, telecom is it.Mar 18 22:58
MinceRmaking a deal with a telco shows just how much apple cares about their customersMar 18 22:58
Balrog__no, it shows how broken the law in the US isMar 18 22:58
Balrog__everyone does it in the USMar 18 22:58
Balrog__not only AppleMar 18 22:58
Balrog__the RAZR was like that ... with Verizon I belieceMar 18 22:59
MinceRapple did it worldwideMar 18 22:59
Balrog__s/c/vMar 18 22:59
MinceRiirc until they got slapped on the wrist by authorities in europeMar 18 22:59
Balrog__MinceR: also what about (a) visual voicemail and (b) subsidies?Mar 18 22:59
MinceRi don't know what "visual voicemail" is supposed to beMar 18 22:59
Balrog__in Europe there were various problemsMar 18 22:59
MinceRas for subsidies, the telco can keep their damn money, if i'm buying a phone i'm going to own itMar 18 22:59
Balrog__basically you see a list of your voicemail messages and you can click on one to listen to itMar 18 23:00
Balrog__Then do you wish to pay $599?Mar 18 23:00
MinceRnone of the 3 phones i've bought so far were locked to a providerMar 18 23:00
MinceRi pay as much as it costsMar 18 23:00
MinceRif it's subsidized, you still pay the costMar 18 23:00
MinceRbut you also get screwed in the processMar 18 23:00
Balrog__no, you get locked in for 2 yearsMar 18 23:00
Balrog__which may equal screwed, depending on the situationMar 18 23:01
MinceRi don't use voicemail -- if they want to send me a message, there's a perfectly functional SMS for thatMar 18 23:01
Balrog__SMS is a ripoffMar 18 23:01
Balrog__$1500 per megabyteMar 18 23:01
MinceRvoicemail is a ripoff tooMar 18 23:01
Balrog__at least hereMar 18 23:01
MinceRi need to pay to listen to itMar 18 23:01
Balrog__voicemail is regular ratesMar 18 23:01
MinceRi can receive text messages free of chargeMar 18 23:01
Balrog__MinceR: Not true in the USA.Mar 18 23:02
trmancomehMar 18 23:02
MinceRwell, the usa sucksMar 18 23:02
trmancoTuz?Mar 18 23:02
trmancololMar 18 23:02
Balrog__texts are 10-25 cents both waysMar 18 23:02
Balrog__(each way, actually)Mar 18 23:02
MinceRalso, voicemail takes more time to use because it's speechMar 18 23:03
Balrog__true, though with visual voicemail you can delete a message you don't want to listen toMar 18 23:03
MinceR(even if it isn't the horrible wait-fest an answering machine playback is)Mar 18 23:03
Balrog__I prefer texts, but then again, many people have landlines here alsoMar 18 23:03
Balrog__which means NO SMSMar 18 23:03
Balrog__(from a landline)Mar 18 23:03
MinceRthey could get ISDN, though :>Mar 18 23:04
Balrog__do you know how EXPENSIVE ISDN is????Mar 18 23:04
MinceRi doMar 18 23:04
Balrog__more than I want to think of payingMar 18 23:04
Balrog__:[Mar 18 23:04
MinceR(though i wonder how they still justify it)Mar 18 23:04
MinceR(not the 30-line version, obviously)Mar 18 23:05
Balrog__even the 1-line version costs too muchMar 18 23:05
Balrog__regular basic phone is $15 per month hereMar 18 23:05
MinceRbtw you can send text messages from the internet tooMar 18 23:05
Balrog__yes, not everyone has that or knows how to do itMar 18 23:05
MinceRif you use a wap push test page, it can even be free :>Mar 18 23:05
Balrog__via AIM it's free, but doesn't work to my phoneMar 18 23:06
Balrog__via email it worksMar 18 23:06
MinceR:)Mar 18 23:06
Balrog__but then again, there are many people who don't have those / don't want to go through the trouble of doing soMar 18 23:06
MinceRwell, i don't want to go through the trouble of using voicemailMar 18 23:07
MinceRalso, they can wait until i become available -- it rarely takes long :>Mar 18 23:07
Balrog__I prefer not to, but I still get them occasionallyMar 18 23:07
MinceRfirst thing i did was to disable voicemailMar 18 23:07
Balrog__what about MMS?Mar 18 23:07
Balrog__do you use it?Mar 18 23:08
MinceRnopeMar 18 23:08
Balrog__ok.Mar 18 23:08
MinceRmaybe i've received one in my lifeMar 18 23:08
MinceRbut generally i'd rather use email for thatMar 18 23:08
Balrog__that's another thing that apple left out of the iphone (until 3.0)Mar 18 23:08
MinceRi knowMar 18 23:08
MinceRit's going to be fun seeing the fanboys drool to see "new" features everyone else has had for decadesMar 18 23:09
Balrog__MinceR: I've seen those features from 'everyone else'Mar 18 23:09
Balrog__Apple seems to be better at implementing themMar 18 23:09
Balrog__we'll see the side-by-side comparisons :)Mar 18 23:10
Balrog__the developers are happy, that's for sureMar 18 23:10
MinceRi doubt they can win at even an arbitrarily vague scenario you're trying to set upMar 18 23:10
MinceRwell, the developers whose apps happened to be accepted, that isMar 18 23:11
Balrog__they say 96% of apps last month were accepted.Mar 18 23:11
Balrog__You heard of the 'fart' apps and all, right?Mar 18 23:11
MinceRwell, the developers have already learned what they shouldn't even tryMar 18 23:11
Balrog__Also, Apple added allowed API's for a lot of the stuffMar 18 23:12
MinceRi'd care more about the background music player apps and the programming language interpreter appsMar 18 23:12
MinceRguess what, you can't do thoseMar 18 23:12
Balrog__like music database access, proximity sensor access, etcMar 18 23:12
MinceRor provide an improved replacement for anything it ships withMar 18 23:12
MinceRor something that happens to bother at&tMar 18 23:12
Balrog__Background music players would be fine only if they give you a big warning or some other notification saying "app *** may use battery life!!!"Mar 18 23:13
MinceRor something that happens to provide an important feature apple managed to left outMar 18 23:13
MinceR(copy/paste anyone?)Mar 18 23:13
MinceRi know they use battery lifeMar 18 23:13
MinceRthat's how CMOS works, you knowMar 18 23:13
MinceRif a state transition happens, current flowsMar 18 23:13
Balrog__the 'improved replacement' thing was treated interestingly ... at first those were rejected, then they started appearing (like improved mail apps)Mar 18 23:13
MinceRif battery life was all i cared about, i wouldn't put the damn thing into a mobile device in the first placeMar 18 23:14
Balrog__copy/paste would require a global temp dir. Apple didn't provide thatMar 18 23:14
MinceRyeah, we've heard all the excuses.Mar 18 23:14
MinceRthe bottom line is that all apple products are seriously lacking in functionalityMar 18 23:15
MinceRand the only people who don't realize this are the apple fanboys.Mar 18 23:15
Balrog__Have you tried anything other than hackintosh?Mar 18 23:15
MinceRand the apple fanboys will naturally keep denying that they're delusionalMar 18 23:15
Balrog__I tried hackintosh and it was not a good experience at all.Mar 18 23:15
MinceRi'm not sure what you mean by hackintoshMar 18 23:16
Balrog__osx on non-Apple hardware.Mar 18 23:16
Balrog__The drivers are messyMar 18 23:16
Balrog__so is the kernelMar 18 23:16
Balrog__you almost never get native support/performanceMar 18 23:16
MinceRi didn't expect it to be fast or stable or to have 3d accelerationMar 18 23:16
MinceRi expected the gui to be as usable as the hype says it isMar 18 23:16
MinceRit wasn'tMar 18 23:16
Balrog__if it's slow, it won't be usableMar 18 23:16
MinceRi disregarded slowness because of thatMar 18 23:17
_Hicham_OSX is always hardware dependentMar 18 23:17
Balrog__if you want mousefocus go somewhere else. It's messy everywhere.Mar 18 23:17
MinceRyes, if i want a gui that works the way i want it, i should go somewhere elseMar 18 23:17
MinceRthat's what i'm doingMar 18 23:17
MinceRand yes, osx is messy everywhereMar 18 23:17
MinceRmaybe someday apple will learn that not all users have the exact same needs and preferencesMar 18 23:18
MinceRor they'll go bankruptMar 18 23:18
MinceRand the fanboys won't understand why.Mar 18 23:18
Balrog__MinceR: I find the OS X gui more flexible than windowsMar 18 23:18
Balrog__or for that matter, xfceMar 18 23:18
MinceRi find it less flexibleMar 18 23:18
Balrog__but then again, it's understandable with xfceMar 18 23:18
Balrog__KDE has all the features but try finding them :PMar 18 23:20
Balrog__Gnome ... well, ask LinuxMar 18 23:21
Balrog__Linus **Mar 18 23:21
MinceRi can find themMar 18 23:21
MinceRand i think anyone who has the intelligence that's necessary to use a light switch can find themMar 18 23:22
Balrog__so can I. But a very small handful of people I know use mousefocus....probably one or two at most (other than you)Mar 18 23:22
MinceR(oh, well, let's add literacy as a requirement)Mar 18 23:22
MinceRthe point is to provide the optionMar 18 23:22
MinceRm$ and apple both believe they know better than the userMar 18 23:23
MinceRthey don't.Mar 18 23:23
Balrog__there's shareware that seems to add it.... 18 23:23
MinceRuntil they realize that their guis will always inevitably suck.Mar 18 23:23
MinceRthis is something their self-appointed "usability experts" should realize.Mar 18 23:23
Balrog__(and other 'hacks'...)Mar 18 23:23
Balrog__you'll have very cluttered code if you implement every feature every person wantsMar 18 23:24
Balrog__even the Linux programmers know this.Mar 18 23:24
MinceRwell, focus follows mouse is nice on osx, but how will you reach the menu?Mar 18 23:24
MinceRsome idiot had the idea to put it at the topMar 18 23:24
MinceRwhat if another window is in the way?Mar 18 23:24
MinceRthat's right, it will receive focus and suddenly its menu is thereMar 18 23:24
Balrog__what about COMMAND-something?Mar 18 23:24
Balrog__also, the menu bar never gets coveredMar 18 23:25
MinceRsometimes i don't want to mess with the keyboardMar 18 23:25
MinceRalso, the menu bar of the topmost window never gets covered even if it isn't nailed to the topMar 18 23:25
Balrog__I've seen apps with no menubars :-oMar 18 23:25
MinceRso have iMar 18 23:25
Balrog__(on windows and linux)Mar 18 23:25
MinceRand i still prefer the risc os wayMar 18 23:25
MinceRbtw, not even i knew what i wanted my gui to be like until i experimented a lot.Mar 18 23:35
PetoKrauswellMar 18 23:39
PetoKrausi am so used to my UIMar 18 23:39
PetoKrausthat i can't work with anything elseMar 18 23:39
MinceRi still have some ideas on how to change it. :)Mar 18 23:39
MinceRgnMar 18 23:40
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Mar 18 23:42

Recent Techrights' Posts

In Malawi, Windows Down to 10%, GNU/Linux Growing
it's not a small country
[Meme] Featuritis
Newer is not always better
Ireland Last to Report Election Results
Daniel Pocock's involvement in Australian politics goes back to his university days
Never Sleeps, Never Slumbers
We're going to try to improve not just in quantity but also in quality
EPO Has Gotten So Bad That Workers Need to Ask to be Allocated a Desk (at Work)
Wow!!!! An “allocated workplace”!!
New Highs for Android in Haiti (Nearly 80%), Microsoft Windows at Only 4%
that's Android at another new high and very close to 80% (it now seems inevitable)
[Meme] How Stefano Maffulli (and Microsoft's Own OSI Insiders) Make Money
Milking what's left of the OSI by attacking its very mission - something that more people now recognise
Mobs Don't Get the Job Done (Mob Leaders Have Lost Credibility/Visibility, Job, or Both)
their demands weren't met
Montenegro: GNU/Linux "Proper" at Over 6%
Windows is down to record lows
Links 13/06/2024: Overpopulation Woes, Best Buy Lays Off More Employees
Links for the day
Nationwide Eventually Did Listen
Miles better than their original nonresponse
The Corruption of Open Source Initiative (OSI), a Front Group of Microsoft and GAFAM, Openwashing Proprietary Things and Even Plagiarism, GPL Violations
Stefano Maffulli (and Microsoft's staff that works with him) basically profits from anti-FOSS
"AI" Tech Bubble
How much "hype quotient" does this whole "hey hi" (AI) thing have left in it?
Links 13/06/2024: Science, Politics, and Gemini
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, June 12, 2024
IRC logs for Wednesday, June 12, 2024
Gemini Links 12/06/2024: The Rodent Revolution and Adding Twisty Puzzles
Links for the day
Links 12/06/2024: Ukraine War Updates and Many Patents Being Subjected to Squashing Bounties
Links for the day
[Meme] The Purpose of Life is to Find a Desk
dogs have desks
Tux Machines Parties Going Well Do Far
Cross-posted from Tux Machines
In Many Countries, Both Large and Small, Vista 11 is Losing Market Share (Despite New PCs Coming Preloaded With It)
One need not even consider large nations in isolation
By "Going Public" the Raspberry Pi Ensures It'll No Longer Serve the Public
It'll be owned and controlled by whatever people wish to control it
Dave Wreski Also Plays the Bot Game (Chatbot) at LinuxSecurity to Fake 'Articles' About "Linux"
How much longer can they fool search engines (SEO) and readers?
[Meme] Indisputable Success
Links 12/06/2024: 'Hey Hi' (AI) Bubble Imploding Already, Danish Media Threatens to Sue OpenAI
Links for the day
Links 11/06/2024: Floods in Germany and Brazil, Political Violence
Links for the day
Gemini Links 12/06/2024: Sketching Plants, OpenBSD Pubnix
Links for the day
"2025 the year of Linux on the Desktop"
Charlie Stross quote
In Bahrain, Historically Low on GNU/Linux Adoption, Things Change for the Better
They have some people who understand Free software
Daniel Pocock Received Twice as Many Votes as Andreas Tille (Debian Project Leader After 2024 Election)
From the media yesterday...
Debian is Built by Hundreds of Volunteers and 524 Irish People Voted for Daniel Pocock
524 in that area went to the polling station to vote Daniel Pocock (Ind)
[Meme] RMS is 'Too Old', Says Company Run by a Person 5 Years His Junior (Ginni Rometty) and 10 Years His Junior (Arvind Krishna)
Never again?
[Meme] Women in Computer Science
Grace Hopper, Ada Lovelace etc.
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, June 11, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, June 11, 2024
Togo: GNU/Linux Growing Fast This Year, Now Measured at 6%
Sending Bill Gates with a suitcase to bribe African officials isn't enough anymore
Free Software Projects Need to Chase Away Men Who Attack Women Rather Than The Women Who Complain
A just society holds people accountable rather than covers up such blunders
Improving the Image of Women in Free Software by Hiring and Promoting the Proficient Ones
Million's shaman background isn't the problem, or even the superstitious ghost-chasing. The problem is that she has absolutely no background in Free software.
They Say Cash is King
People who value their freedom will pay with cash any time they can
'Team Microsoft' Wants to Leverage Our Popularity as a Weapon Against Us
In the past 2 days we published 64 articles and served over a million HTTP/S requests
[Meme] Microsoft Has Enough of Its Own Problems (Layoffs Abundant), It Won't Rescue IBM or Canonical
"It's OK, we're partners"
Know Your Allies, Know Your Enemies
The answer to censorship attempts is more speech, not less speech
Debian is Back to Taking Money From Microsoft, the Company That's Attacking Linux From the Inside
If Debian fails to understand what's wrong with it, that's a problem
Ghana: Windows Down From 97% to Just 15%
The doors are closing on Windows
Links 11/06/2024: Practice of Retaliatory Layoffs at Microsoft
Links for the day
Gemini Links 11/06/2024: GMID 2.0.5 and More
Links for the day
The United States Will Cut Off or Cull Firefox
It is only a matter of time
[Meme] Firefox Is Not an Alternative to Google, Only to Chrome (and It Has Become Proprietary or OSPS Like Chromium)
The illusion of remaining "choice" on the Web
No, the World Wide Web Isn't Open (and Hasn't Been for Years)
It's proprietary all the way now
The War on Free Software Reporters - Part VII - Groupthink, Censorship Demands, and Ultimatums
There's a lot of groupthink in the Free software community
Microsoft Told Us That LLMs Were a Boon for Azure and 'Clown Computing', But the Thousands of Layoffs This Month Prove That It Was a Lie All Along
Azure is collapsing
Why We Post Statistics About the Usage of Operating Systems Worldwide
We're hoping to see GNU/Linux at over 10% (on desktops/laptops) some time in the coming years
Winning Defamation Cases is Incredibly Difficult (for Plaintiffs), Even in the United States and the United Kingdom
SLAPP should always backfire
In Kuwait, Microsoft's Windows Fell From 97% to Just 15%
According to statCounter
GNU/Linux in Philippines Climbs to New Levels
This is an all-time high
Links 11/06/2024: Windows Outcry and Climate News
Links for the day
Tux Machines Was Always a Women-Run Site (the Real Voices of GNU/Linux, Not Political Props in Corporate Events)
Corporate "diversity" is more of a marketing/PR gimmick than real, genuine diversity
Macao: GNU/Linux Desktop/Laptop Operating System Market Share Rising Close to 7%
GNU/Linux Rises to Record High in Macao
FSF is Now 50% Female, Unlike Red Hat (Which Moaned About Lack of "Diversity" at FSF)
Isn't the hypocrisy just astounding?
Since COVID-19 Lockdowns Windows Fell From Almost 50% to Just 10% in Loas
According to statCounter
[Meme] Quantity Says Nothing About Worth, Value, or Quality
People will generally gravitate towards things of quality and reputation
Microsoft's Windows in Gabon: From 20% 'Market Share' Down to Around 10% in a Few Months
Gabon is not a small country
Meanwhile at
Canonical knows exactly what Ubuntu users want
[Meme] Microsoft (and the NSA) Will Never Forget
The user trying to permanently disable 'recall'
Windows Falls Below 20% in United Arab Emirates This Month
According to statCounter
"Windows 11's Recall AI, known to take snapshots and recordings of user computers regularly, including key presses, was discovered to store all its information in an unencrypted local folder."
"You can copy the data from another user's "recall" folder as another user."
Fedora Week of Diversity (FWD) 2024 Outsourced to Proprietary Spyware of GAFAM
Need to use proprietary software to participate
IRC Proceedings: Monday, June 10, 2024
IRC logs for Monday, June 10, 2024
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
[Meme] Clown Computing is Better For...
Clown: they said clown computing enhances security
One in a Thousand Voters Chose to Vote Daniel Pocock (as First Preference)
He got about 4 times more votes than what had him win FSFE elections
Daniel Pocock on Good Performance in His EU Election Campaign: Thanking the voters of Midlands-North-West, Ireland
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
The 'IT Industry' is Already in Ruins
The "powers that be" do not want the "hoi polloi" to possess skills and systems
Microsoft's Windows is Sliding Away Into Minority Platform Territories, Even in Rich Countries With Affluent Computer Users
We seem to be striking a nerve at Microsoft every time we say this
Self-Hosting Should be Taught and Embraced, Outsourcing Creates More Problems (or Risks) Than It Solves
One can control one's destiny...