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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 28th, 2009 - Part 2



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oiaohmIts not good for flash or silverlight.Mar 28 15:19
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zer0c00lschestowitz:http://gracelyne.wordpress.com/200... see comment number 37Mar 28 15:26
zer0c00l"Microsoft Gave all their Development tools For Free.. . We Didnt ask them"Mar 28 15:27
zer0c00lpoor microsoft http://www.microsoft.com/protec...Mar 28 15:31
schestowitzCigarettes companies tooMar 28 15:31
zer0c00lthe link is in the home pageMar 28 15:31
schestowitzIt helps MicrosoftMar 28 15:31
zer0c00l:DMar 28 15:31
schestowitzContaminate the Web...Mar 28 15:31
_Hicham_Their Development Tools are not yet freeMar 28 15:33
_Hicham_Visual Studio Team System + 1 Year Subscription to MSDN = $10,000Mar 28 15:33
zer0c00lhttp://www.microsoft.com/protect/comp... they once said "We have changed the way autorun feature works in vista, so that you could plug your pendrive in vista without the fear of virus infection"Mar 28 15:33
zer0c00lseems like this virus bypassed that tooMar 28 15:34
zer0c00llook at the pictureMar 28 15:34
schestowitzOK, back.. was on the phoneMar 28 15:37
schestowitzMicrosoft is spreading its tools for free for the same reason it did the OSMar 28 15:38
_Hicham_the best solution yet to Removable Media Virii is to disable AutoplayMar 28 15:38
schestowitzOr Office (OOXML) for that matterMar 28 15:38
schestowitzIt wants to make itself the standardMar 28 15:38
schestowitzIt uses people for network effectMar 28 15:38
schestowitzTo compete with Free software strengthsMar 28 15:38
zer0c00l_Hicham_: the very best solution is to use Gnu/Linux :DMar 28 15:38
schestowitzBut it replaces standards/freedom/fairness with tyranny this wayMar 28 15:38
_Hicham_zer0c001 : not for everybodyMar 28 15:39
_Hicham_some Linux Geeks say that Linux is not meant to be popularMar 28 15:39
_Hicham_Torvalds himself said thatMar 28 15:39
_Hicham_A lot of Linux users doesn't like how Ubuntu is growingMar 28 15:40
_Hicham_and that is offering supported closed source softwareMar 28 15:40
zer0c00lwubi ?Mar 28 15:40
_Hicham_noMar 28 15:40
zer0c00lno upstream contribution?Mar 28 15:40
_Hicham_Cyberlink PowerDVD for exampleMar 28 15:41
_Hicham_they sell itMar 28 15:41
zer0c00lFriend of mine is asking some dev tools to develop games in linuxMar 28 15:41
_Hicham_there is a lot of OpenGL game enginesMar 28 15:41
zer0c00lAny one know any game dev tools /frameworks for gnu/linuxMar 28 15:41
_Hicham_have u ever used OpenGL?Mar 28 15:42
_Hicham_they can use OpenGL with GTKMar 28 15:42
_Hicham_ie : gtkglext and gtkmmglextMar 28 15:42
_Hicham_and Glade by the wayMar 28 15:43
_Hicham_they can try AnjutaMar 28 15:43
_Hicham_or CodeblocksMar 28 15:43
_Hicham_I recommend Anjuta as it uses the standard automake/autoconf toolsMar 28 15:43
zer0c00lAnjutha: this name sounds like an india woman nameMar 28 15:44
_Hicham_yesMar 28 15:44
zer0c00l*indianMar 28 15:44
_Hicham_it was developed by Naba KumarMar 28 15:44
_Hicham_an Indian DeveloperMar 28 15:44
*zer0c00l looksMar 28 15:44
_Hicham_as a gift to his gf AnjutaMar 28 15:44
zer0c00l:DMar 28 15:45
zer0c00lgr8 giftMar 28 15:45
_Hicham_have u ever used it?Mar 28 15:45
zer0c00lnoMar 28 15:45
zer0c00lwill use it for sureMar 28 15:45
zer0c00l;-)Mar 28 15:45
_Hicham_did u do any dev before?Mar 28 15:45
zer0c00lnoMar 28 15:45
zer0c00lactually notMar 28 15:45
zer0c00lthought of taking part in gsocMar 28 15:46
_Hicham_great ideaMar 28 15:46
zer0c00lgoogle summer of codeMar 28 15:46
zer0c00lthat will be the best place to start i guessMar 28 15:46
zer0c00l:-)Mar 28 15:46
_Hicham_what languages do u use?Mar 28 15:47
zer0c00li know CMar 28 15:48
zer0c00lstarted learning pythonMar 28 15:48
zer0c00land shell scriptingMar 28 15:48
zer0c00li am thinking of contributing to drupalMar 28 15:49
zer0c00lthey are in gsocMar 28 15:49
zer0c00lapril 3 is the dead lineMar 28 15:49
zer0c00lhave to decide and submit proposalMar 28 15:50
zer0c00lyou have any ideas?Mar 28 15:50
zer0c00lhttp://socghop.appspot.com/program/a...Mar 28 15:51
schestowitzhttp://digg.com/linux_unix/Nove... "I believe you pronounce SLES as "sleeze"."Mar 28 15:56
_Hicham_"read and write Office 2007 file formats" : this isn't Novell, it is plain OpenOffice3Mar 28 15:59
_Hicham_if they were just developing a compatibility .NET ABI for Linux, no one would have talkedMar 28 16:03
_Hicham_but promoting .NET developing on Linux?Mar 28 16:04
_Hicham_why the fuck would we need that?Mar 28 16:04
_Hicham_as if they were saying that .NET is all over the marketMar 28 16:04
_Hicham_the fact is that J2EE is still having a giant market shareMar 28 16:04
_Hicham_bigget that .NETMar 28 16:04
_Hicham_Microsoft didn't like it when Sun stopped allowing them to develop their own Java toolsMar 28 16:05
_Hicham_Remember, Windows 98 had a built-in Java VMMar 28 16:05
_Hicham_but after, the license to use Java Source code was pulled from themMar 28 16:06
_Hicham_that is when MS felt the threatMar 28 16:06
_Hicham_as Java Market was matureMar 28 16:06
schestowitzYes..Mar 28 16:06
schestowitzThey use Novell to weaken SUNMar 28 16:06
schestowitzAnd JavaMar 28 16:06
schestowitzIn more than one wayMar 28 16:07
schestowitzAlso OOoMar 28 16:07
schestowitzThey fork or seize control with Go-OOOXMLMar 28 16:07
schestowitzEvil bastards :-)Mar 28 16:07
_Hicham_C# was developed just to "recover"Mar 28 16:07
_Hicham_C# was developed to attract Java devs to MS Tools againMar 28 16:08
_Hicham_i see it just a plain fucking clone of JavaMar 28 16:08
_Hicham_but still lacking a lot of the biggest features of JavaMar 28 16:08
_Hicham_it is just a nasty move from themMar 28 16:08
_Hicham_the language that should have won is Python i thinkMar 28 16:09
_Hicham_it is just that some fundamentalist developers didn't like its weak typingMar 28 16:09
schestowitzBut Novell markets .NET nowMar 28 16:10
schestowitzAnd Hovo Sapient pretends they still want Java to winMar 28 16:10
schestowitzWhile he's paid by Microsoft to advance .NET as a 'standard'Mar 28 16:10
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_Hicham_1it is sad that Linus has friends in NovellMar 28 16:13
_Hicham_1that is what stops him from banning them from Linux WorldMar 28 16:14
_Hicham_1if I had the Linux trademark, I would have banned them immediatelyMar 28 16:14
schestowitzTracking The Online-Only Seattle P-I: Traffic Down 20 Percent < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-maybe... >Mar 28 16:14
_Hicham_1still, it is a mystery why Ubuntu ships with Mono Runtime by defaultMar 28 16:15
schestowitz"It makes some sense: Cut your editorial staff by 80 percent, and there’s at least a decent chance that Web traffic will tumble. And that’s just what has happened at the new online-only Seattle Post-Intelligencer. Page views are down about 20 percent in the week since the newspaper killed its print edition and became an online-only publication."Mar 28 16:15
_Hicham_1as if the users are supposed to run .NET apps?Mar 28 16:15
schestowitzThey shouldMar 28 16:16
schestowitzIf they are Novell customersMar 28 16:17
schestowitzit's good for NovellMar 28 16:17
schestowitzMicrosoft ally...Mar 28 16:17
schestowitzThat's why I don't trust Novell. It's agenda is different from ourMar 28 16:17
schestowitz*oursMar 28 16:17
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_Hicham_2If u had the Linux trademark, what would u have done Roy?Mar 28 16:18
schestowitzFirefox is restoring 150 tabs here after a crashMar 28 16:19
schestowitz_Hicham_: what's to do with it?Mar 28 16:20
trmancohttp://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-23/Mar 28 16:20
schestowitzLinus hardly enforces itMar 28 16:20
schestowitzThere is some company called Linux Gold... in Alaska, IIRCMar 28 16:20
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_Hicham_Nobody is talking?Mar 28 16:46
PetoKrausi like the post about Pwn2Own at slashdotMar 28 16:48
PetoKrausfirefox having patched the vulns alreadyMar 28 16:49
schestowitzDoes the exploit target anything but win32?Mar 28 16:49
PetoKrausi don't think soMar 28 16:49
PetoKrausbut it's still good :)Mar 28 16:49
schestowitzHow far can a firefox exploit go in Linux?Mar 28 16:49
schestowitzIt surely can't self-replicateMar 28 16:49
schestowitzCan Firefox lead to deletion of file in home_dar?Mar 28 16:50
PetoKrauswell, i don't knowMar 28 16:50
schestowitz*dirMar 28 16:50
_Hicham_Roy : why not?Mar 28 16:50
PetoKrausi don't think you know eitherMar 28 16:50
_Hicham_I think that u can do that with java scriptMar 28 16:50
_Hicham_or a Java appletMar 28 16:50
_Hicham_or a Flash PluginMar 28 16:51
_Hicham_we don't have the source code for this PluginsMar 28 16:51
_Hicham_so who knows how secure they are?Mar 28 16:51
_Hicham_Roy : I think that this is can be with a Java AppletMar 28 16:52
_Hicham_all the files with current user permission can be manipulatedMar 28 16:53
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trmancoyime to goMar 28 16:54
trmancocya guysMar 28 16:55
_Hicham_take care trmancoMar 28 16:55
schestowitz"There is a thread on boycottnovell about the "boycott boycottnovell crowd".  Shane made his usual comment that he thinks affiliations and backgrounds aren't important and the only thing that matters is that we can make good, solid arguments for our positions."Mar 28 16:56
schestowitztrmanco: have lots of fuMar 28 16:56
schestowitz*fun... (or fun-fu!)Mar 28 16:56
_Hicham_fun-fun kung-fuMar 28 16:57
schestowitz"I responded that it is somewhat interesting and natural to inquire about someone's background, especially if they are a regular poster who is passionate about his views. I also wrote, that in the case of "Dan O"Brian", his invectives often cloud his posts and more civility would be helpful here."Mar 28 16:57
_Hicham_fan-fu kung-fuMar 28 16:57
schestowitzWe stlll have hecklers from Novell's next doorMar 28 16:57
_Hicham_Dan O'Brian is a little suckerMar 28 16:58
schestowitzOthers are annoyed by him tooMar 28 16:58
schestowitzWhile I don't mind the heckling/trolling, it does upset other peopleMar 28 16:58
schestowitzIOW, it harms the site in some waysMar 28 16:58
schestowitz"I could also add to the above that "Dan O'Brian" has a penchant for attributing malice where there is none.  I saw, in the "boycott boycottnovell" thread, his "proofs" of your malice and, to me, they were proof of nothing of the sort."Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz"Even in the worst case, when he mentioned the Wikipedia ACPI article about Jimmi Hugh (sp?), that was a case where the Wikipedia author himself responded and posted his side of the story."Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz"That seems as clear as it will be unless you have the occasion to post a follow-up.  Nonetheless, "Dan O'Brian" wants to lambast you for not posting a follow-up article.  It's yet another case where he is right in a narrow sense but where he fails to reconcile his view with the big picture."Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz"This seems to be a consistent problem with him.  I also note some past threads where he corrected some inaccuracies in your articles and went on to proudly proclaim that "Mono is free software."  Again, he is technically correct there, but he fails to understand the possibility that this might easily be some kind of judo trick by Microsoft against free software. "Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz"What better way to fight free software than with free software.  Free software that is a second class citizen to proprietary software is OK for him?  He also ignores explicit Microsoft quotes that they consider Mono to be covered by their patents and that they reserve the right to sue."Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz"I suppose that he also has no answer for the Microsoft patent litigation regarding Tomtom's use of the FAT filesystem in the Linux kernel.  That certainly weakens assertions that Microsoft wouldn't bring a patent suit against free software.  It seems that "Dan O'Brien" is too entrenched in his opinions to notice."Mar 28 16:59
_Hicham_He may be a little Novell employeeMar 28 17:00
_Hicham_Novell is just wasting timeMar 28 17:00
_Hicham_instead of taking strategic decisionsMar 28 17:00
_Hicham_It is sad that some devs like Kroah Hartman are working for themMar 28 17:01
_Hicham_Novell isn't run by the devsMar 28 17:01
_Hicham_the devs are considered just morons over thereMar 28 17:01
_Hicham_I hate those nasty managersMar 28 17:01
_Hicham_why the fuck let a manager who doesn't know a shit about software run a company?Mar 28 17:02
_Hicham_Microsoft uses Novell to counter RedHatMar 28 17:08
_Hicham_Novell is a slutty whoreMar 28 17:09
schestowitzIt could use the money thoughMar 28 17:09
schestowitzI reckon Novell is not far from bankruptcyMar 28 17:10
schestowitzBut in the US, nobody knows until you file for itMar 28 17:10
schestowitzBecause the SEC is a joke and bad accounting is the standard procedureMar 28 17:10
schestowitzWhao. BN did about 3.5 GB of traffic in the past 13 hours alone. g2g bblMar 28 17:14
zer0c00l3.5? thats bigMar 28 17:15
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_Hicham_Roy : u are becoming a starMar 28 17:18
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zer0c00lnew comment in http://gracelyne.wordpress.com/2009/03...Mar 28 18:51
zer0c00lMuha ha Ha ha MicroSoft Products are like scabies it will give pleasure when u rub (WHen You Initillay UseTHose )… But Finally It Will put you in Bleeding(Robbing Money From You) … :-)Mar 28 18:51
EruaranLatest update for the Glassified Plasma theme is very niceMar 28 19:25
schestowitzSplit vote upholds Texas education board ruling to ax evolution 'strengths and weaknesses' rule < http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedconte... >. Pros and cons for "world is flat?"Mar 28 20:17
schestowitz"The more I read about Adam Smith, the more impressed I became with his life and his work.  For years, many thought that Smith had been advocating a right wing ideological approach to open markets, reflecting a kind of survival of the fittest competition in which anything goes. " http://blog.irvingwb.com/blog/2009...Mar 28 20:18
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index...Mar 28 20:21
schestowitzThe AstroTurfers won't say a thing about ISO's corruption there.Mar 28 20:22
schestowitz"The newspaper business is in the can, papers are closing left and right, and lots of others are laying off staffers. But perhaps some of those who have their newspaper gigs can get in on a hot growth industry: ghostwriting Twitter messages for celebrities." http://techdirt.com/arti...Mar 28 20:24
schestowitzSun Crams the Entire Internet In a Box < http://gigaom.com/2009/03/25/sun-crams... >Mar 28 20:30
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schestowitz"Liberal think tanks and advocacy organizations formed during the Bush/Cheney regime are working in close and well-funded coordination as a PR messaging machine for the Obama Administration's foreign and domestic policies." http://www.prwatch.org/node/8300Mar 28 20:35
dsmith_isn;t that a bit off topic?Mar 28 20:37
schestowitzIt is. :-)Mar 28 20:42
schestowitzBut there are parellelsMar 28 20:42
schestowitzOn how the public is deceived by the same industry (PR) using the same methodsMar 28 20:43
dsmith_i knw.Mar 28 20:43
dsmith_here's a story for you...Mar 28 20:44
dsmith_An outside sales person was complaining to me that thier laptop not working, I foudn viruses on it.. obviouslyMar 28 20:44
dsmith_So I backed up his data and instaled linux, with the means to recieve email and RDP to the terminal serverMar 28 20:45
dsmith_his ITfolk freaked outMar 28 20:45
dsmith_and promptly removed it and said what I had done was insecureMar 28 20:45
dsmith_lolMar 28 20:45
Balrogand what now?Mar 28 20:46
Balrogthat's not good ... who are these ITfolk?Mar 28 20:47
dsmith_I wont name names, but it was the comp. hired to admin thier systemsMar 28 20:47
dsmith_lolMar 28 20:47
Balrogare these people familiar only with windows?Mar 28 20:47
dsmith_yea, what you call a MSVP, or whateverMar 28 20:48
Balrog:(Mar 28 20:48
BalrogMCSEMar 28 20:48
schestowitz13-y-o neighbourMar 28 20:48
schestowitzReboot, then reinstallMar 28 20:48
dsmith_someone asked me about sharepointMar 28 20:48
schestowitzThose whizes...Mar 28 20:48
dsmith_etc..Mar 28 20:48
schestowitzSharepoint is against sharingMar 28 20:49
schestowitzNon-Free softwareMar 28 20:49
dsmith_I gave them 3-4 alt, so what they do? They installed SHAREPOINTMar 28 20:49
schestowitzLockin and viral.. forces other to be locked in tooMar 28 20:49
dsmith_THE it  IDIOITS know betterMar 28 20:49
dsmith_its comical..Mar 28 20:49
schestowitzAlfresco would be betterMar 28 20:49
dsmith_all for $3500.monthMar 28 20:49
dsmith_alfresco, clearspace....etcMar 28 20:49
schestowitzhere's a real OTer: Burning Toxic Waste is Making U.S. Soldiers and Iraqis Sick, But the Pentagon Refuses to Admit It < http://www.alternet.org/story/132345/ >Mar 28 20:50
dsmith_O3 was anotherMar 28 20:50
schestowitz$3500/month?Mar 28 20:50
schestowitzHehe.Mar 28 20:50
dsmith_LMFAO yeaMar 28 20:50
schestowitz /They/ should pay for itMar 28 20:50
schestowitzDrop their wageMar 28 20:50
schestowitzIdiots.Mar 28 20:50
schestowitzAnd their data will be STUCK in itMar 28 20:50
schestowitzPay to become hostageMar 28 20:50
dsmith_i call  it protection moneyMar 28 20:50
Balrogare there linux clients for Citrix XenApp?Mar 28 20:51
dsmith_citrix yeaMar 28 20:51
dsmith_xenapp dunnoMar 28 20:51
Balrogbut not foss...?Mar 28 20:51
schestowitzhttp://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-... "The police in London are asking citizens to go through each other's garbage, and report anyone looking at the CCTV cameras."Mar 28 20:51
dsmith_hmmmmmmmmmmMar 28 20:51
schestowitz"If you are in London, make a practice of regularly looking at CCTV cameras. Occasionally discussing them with your companions or passersby would be a good habit too. If everyone gets accustomed to seeing people look at them, and photograph them, no one will find it unusual."Mar 28 20:51
dsmith_Yea roy, your country is in a tizzy right nowMar 28 20:52
schestowitzCtrix is MicrosoftMar 28 20:52
schestowitzPretty much...Mar 28 20:52
Balrogyes I knowMar 28 20:52
dsmith_aayeMar 28 20:52
schestowitzdsmith_: it's Big Brotha' :-)Mar 28 20:52
dsmith_yes I know..Mar 28 20:52
dsmith_I read the UK is bankruptMar 28 20:52
schestowitzNo though police yet, but they track anything you do on the Web if they wantMar 28 20:53
Balrogbut how do you run remote apps (using Citrix XenApp) on a Linux machine?Mar 28 20:53
schestowitzThe government here support PhormMar 28 20:53
schestowitzThey deep-inspect packets!Mar 28 20:53
Balrogof course they doMar 28 20:53
schestowitzdsmith_: seems like it, yesMar 28 20:53
Balroghere (US) the fcc stopped some phorm-like trialsMar 28 20:53
schestowitzDebt of over $50k per personMar 28 20:53
Balrogand fined the ISP'sMar 28 20:53
schestowitzLSE had protestsMar 28 20:53
schestowitzMaking a mess down there in LondonMar 28 20:54
dsmith_were not any betterMar 28 20:54
dsmith_US is bankruptMar 28 20:54
Balrogahh, citrix has a java-based clientMar 28 20:54
schestowitzdsmith_: yes, that tooMar 28 20:54
dsmith_yea, thats right, JAVAMar 28 20:54
schestowitzSimilar debt per dapitaMar 28 20:54
schestowitz*CapitaMar 28 20:54
schestowitzUS treasury works secretlyMar 28 20:54
schestowitzAll those loans from China to go to war...Mar 28 20:55
Balrogbut it's not for end users :(Mar 28 20:55
schestowitzAnd they STILL work secretly.Mar 28 20:55
schestowitzSpeaking of JAVA, I'm doing an April Fools' jokeMar 28 20:55
schestowitzYou'll see... it starts with "JAVA"Mar 28 20:56
schestowitzAh! dsmith_  spoke too soon. Just in: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/02... (Bill proposes ISPs, Wi-Fi keep logs for police)Mar 28 20:56
schestowitzRMS says, "The US Congress is considering a bill to require every WiFi network (and every ISP) to keep records of all users, for the police."Mar 28 20:57
Balrogurl?Mar 28 20:57
schestowitz"I suspect opposition will fasten on the absurdity of imposing this requirement even on people's home networks. That would be a mistake: if the bill is changed to exempt home networks, it will still be an attack on our freedom. We must oppose the bill head-on, not get sidetracked into quibbles about details."Mar 28 20:57
schestowitzhttp://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jan-a...Mar 28 20:57
Balrogit's certainly absurdMar 28 20:57
schestowitzIt's all coming better together nowMar 28 20:57
schestowitzPeople are led to unrestMar 28 20:58
Balrogand there are many ways to hide online activitiesMar 28 20:58
schestowitzPolicemen were always able to snoop and require logsMar 28 20:58
schestowitzManpower is not an issueMar 28 20:58
schestowitzIn Chna, 10k people eavesdrop on peopleMar 28 20:58
dsmith_just boot off a live cd..Mar 28 20:58
dsmith_and remove your harddrive, or use it for swapMar 28 20:58
schestowitzHere in the UK, with umployment rising, more human analysis+Phorm would do the trick of 'Thought Police' (Orwell), checking people's clicks, search queries, people's mail, IM.....Mar 28 20:59
Balrogthey want dhcp logsMar 28 20:59
schestowitzYou know, Skype in China let the government access chat logs too (text)Mar 28 20:59
Balrogeasy enough to fake a MAC addressMar 28 20:59
schestowitzItaly demanded access to voice tooMar 28 20:59
schestowitzSaying the "terrorists" can't be eavesdrop like on phones.Mar 28 20:59
dsmith_wowMar 28 20:59
schestowitz"Terrorists" = people who protestMar 28 20:59
dsmith_yes.'Mar 28 21:00
schestowitzLike... about unemploymentMar 28 21:00
schestowitz"Terrorists" = people of icelandMar 28 21:00
dsmith_hahaMar 28 21:00
schestowitzhttp://www.indefence.is/+Mar 28 21:00
schestowitzhttp://www.indefence.is/Mar 28 21:00
dsmith_"Terrorists" = Linux usersMar 28 21:00
dsmith_you waitMar 28 21:00
schestowitzThese people take the s*t on us ;-)Mar 28 21:00
schestowitzDon't worry... they can send ESRs and ORLYs to 'tame' us about Web Two-Oh! and Open SauceMar 28 21:01
schestowitzIt's a good think to view it humourously. OBrother OBama is the next China regime..? :-DMar 28 21:02
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpp38p... "I love you [Obama]"Mar 28 21:03
schestowitzBeijing orders scaling back of Earth Hour to celebrate Tibet 'liberation' day < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/20... >Mar 28 21:06
schestowitzThe Civil Brtis :-) FCO Finally Admits To Receiving Intelligence From Torture < http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/ar... >Mar 28 21:10
schestowitzYummy.... not. "Compressed food" http://www.chinasmack.com/pictures/w...Mar 28 21:13
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schestowitzMigrating the enterprise to Linux, 10 things clarified < http://www.handlewithlinux.com/migrating-t... >Mar 28 21:17
schestowitz*sigh* why is LXer linking to anti-Linux material from Microsoft's buddy and Ballmer's friend (they met) Shane O'Neill??Mar 28 21:23
schestowitzPalm coming the the desktop? ... Why Palm’s WebOS Could Shake up the Netbook World < http://blog.laptopmag.com/why-palms... >Mar 28 21:37
schestowitzMobile Linux looking like a future leader: http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/The-Drivi...Mar 28 21:37
schestowitzThe US government uses a double-digit share of GNU/Linux: http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/26/o...Mar 28 21:38
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schestowitz“This good cop-bad cop routine has gotten very, very old. Anyone in open source who deals with Microsoft knows what they are walking into. Stop pretending to be our friend.” http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3802Mar 28 21:40
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_Hicham_sleepy roomMar 28 21:45
_Hicham_no snoring voiceMar 28 21:45
schestowitzDon't worry about it. Relish on the silence.Mar 28 21:49
schestowitzI'm meanwhile collecting wonderful Linux news that I'll hopefully post tonight as a bunch. Many people read BN for the links alone.Mar 28 21:50
schestowitzStudy: Android to lead smartphone growth < http://www.linuxdevices.com/news... >Mar 28 21:51
schestowitzyay1Mar 28 21:56
schestowitzPseudonym Paul Murphy (SCO booster) to leave ZDNet: Ihttp://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-11202-0.htm... " can't say I always agree with your opinions, Murph. In fact, I seldom agree with them! Never-the-less, I shall miss your entertaining and thought-provoking daily blog."Mar 28 21:56
schestowitzMicrosoft’s anti-Mac pricing campaign takes to the web < http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/03... >. So longer is just GNU/Linux (#1 Microsoft threat) a direct victim?Mar 28 22:05
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schestowitzESR is attacking the Freedom in Free(Dom)Libre software again... < http://www.informationweek.com/blog/... > (A Little Heresy Now And Then ...)Mar 28 22:25
MinceRhe should ask the OpenBSD/OpenSSH guys how the "market punishing for taking open source closed" is working out for themMar 28 22:39
schestowitz:-)Mar 28 22:43
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_Hicham_there is no better room than this oneMar 28 22:56
_Hicham_Roy, u should open a hotelMar 28 22:57
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schestowitzCan't afford it.Mar 28 23:05
schestowitzhttp://lwn.net/Articles/325662/ "Trust us while we sue you. I agree. Don't judge Microsoft on its words, judge MS on its actions."Mar 28 23:10
schestowitz"I raped your wife, but I gave your daughter a lollipop. Only judge me based on how I treated your daughter."Mar 28 23:10
schestowitz"The disconnect between statement and reality often makes me wonder if there are elements of joining a cult in working for Microsoft. This isn't just ordinary PR, but true doublethink."Mar 28 23:11
schestowitz"Your deeds on open source? You mean, all the windows-only "open source" software you've published? Yeah, real funny that."Mar 28 23:11
Balrog_ogg is so hard to work with :(Mar 28 23:11
Balrog_the tools for it are terrible, unfortunatelyMar 28 23:11
schestowitz"Contrast that with why the economy here is so bad-- a lot of folks want it to be the way it was a hundred years ago. Those days aren't coming back, and they weren't that great anyway." http://linuxtoday.com/news_s...Mar 28 23:13
schestowitz"All those emigrants flooding to this beautiful new unspoiled land, and then doing their best to ruin it beyond repair. Real life is adaptation and change; pining for the old ways doesn't accomplish much." I love Carla Schroder's essays.Mar 28 23:13
*schestowitz watches ogg videos in a playlist right nowMar 28 23:14
Balrog_try combining two ogg videos together end to endMar 28 23:14
schestowitzBalrog: what OS are you on ATM?Mar 28 23:14
Balrog_Linux and OS X, no luck on eitherMar 28 23:15
schestowitzBalrog: kino, cineralla (??)Mar 28 23:15
Balrog_I'm talking about authoring relatedMar 28 23:15
Balrog_not playbackMar 28 23:15
schestowitzYes, me tooMar 28 23:15
Balrog_playback is greatMar 28 23:15
schestowitzI've named editorsMar 28 23:15
Balrog_I need to basically 'cat' three togetherMar 28 23:15
schestowitzA friend of mine wrote this tutorial recently: http://digg.com/linux_unix/V...Mar 28 23:16
Balrog_do these work on oggs directly?Mar 28 23:16
schestowitzI liked it so much I put it in Digg (which I rarely do these days anyway cause it's a dud)Mar 28 23:16
Balrog_or do they transcode to an editor-friendly format?Mar 28 23:16
Balrog_ok, Kino only works with .dv videoMar 28 23:17
Balrog_not good :/Mar 28 23:17
schestowitzBalrog: you could use ffmpegMar 28 23:18
schestowitzMany people doMar 28 23:18
schestowitzVery simpleMar 28 23:18
schestowitzhttp://forums.blagblagblag.o...Mar 28 23:19
schestowitzfreedom compromise rmsMar 28 23:19
schestowitzlook it upMar 28 23:19
schestowitz:-)Mar 28 23:19
Balrog_I used ffmpeg, it gave me thisMar 28 23:20
_Hicham_Balrog_ : avidemuxMar 28 23:20
Balrog_but these are OGGSMar 28 23:21
_Hicham_avidemux just rocksMar 28 23:21
Balrog_OGG filesMar 28 23:21
MinceRor mencoder? :>Mar 28 23:21
Balrog_avidemux sounds like aviMar 28 23:21
_Hicham_Balrog_ : noMar 28 23:21
Balrog_mencoder doesn't deal with theoraMar 28 23:21
_Hicham_avidemux is not for avi onlyMar 28 23:21
Balrog_well, many apps that deal with ogg are terribly brokenMar 28 23:22
schestowitz+1 mencoderMar 28 23:22
schestowitzBalrog: 'commercial' apps?Mar 28 23:23
schestowitzOgg is their anathemaMar 28 23:23
schestowitzNo patents, no royalties, DRM, trolls, Sisvel mafia, DRM...Mar 28 23:23
Balrog_no, free appsMar 28 23:23
Balrog_Handbrake doesn't deal with it properly, but it requires VFR codecs/containers, which ogg doesn't supportMar 28 23:24
Balrog_ffmpeg has a terrible vorbis encoderMar 28 23:24
Balrog_(the internal one)Mar 28 23:24
Balrog_don't use -acodec vorbis with ffmpeg, rather -acodec libvorbisMar 28 23:24
Balrog_or you'll get horrible resultsMar 28 23:24
schestowitzIn what sense/Mar 28 23:25
schestowitzFramerate? Blur?Mar 28 23:25
Balrog_no, chirping and other sound artifactsMar 28 23:27
Balrog_http://myrandomnode.dyndns.org:8080...Mar 28 23:28
Balrog_there are samples to try outMar 28 23:28
Balrog_compare the ffmpeg one (ffmpeg -acodec vorbis) with the libvorbis one (ffmpeg -acodec libvorbis)Mar 28 23:29
Balrog_AUDIOMar 28 23:29
Balrog_-acodec is audioMar 28 23:29
Balrog_ffmpeg doesn't have theora built in internallyMar 28 23:29
schestowitzi c....Mar 28 23:29
Balrog_so if ANYONE encodes audio in vorbis with ffmpeg, use 'libvorbis'Mar 28 23:31
Balrog_did you listen to the samples btw?Mar 28 23:33
schestowitzCan you convince your department to support Ogg?Mar 28 23:37
schestowitzThey can automate translationMar 28 23:37
schestowitzBalrog: not yet. I'm dealing with links ATM.Mar 28 23:37
Balrog_my department doesn't have a codec of choice, but they're stuck with an app that uses SilverlightMar 28 23:38
Balrog_In this case, I'm required to use oggMar 28 23:38
Balrog_(hopefully I will be able to work with some students to make a similar app that doesn't use SL)\Mar 28 23:39
Balrog_and gives a choice of codecsMar 28 23:39
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_Hicham_1http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/Mar 28 23:40
_Hicham_1here u go balrogMar 28 23:40
Balrog_works with ogg?Mar 28 23:40
_Hicham_1yesMar 28 23:40
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_Hicham_it join files instantlyMar 28 23:42
schestowitzBalrog: many universities make headline ATM because of open-source coursewareMar 28 23:43
schestowitzYour courseware goes the other wayMar 28 23:43
schestowitzShow the seniors that what they do is wrongMar 28 23:43
schestowitzThey deny even people who pay tuition access to coursewareMar 28 23:43
Balrog_it's not coursewareMar 28 23:43
Balrog_it's stuff for video viewingMar 28 23:44
Balrog_they have not much choice, as there's (a) lack of money and (b) lack of interest to improve thisMar 28 23:44
_Hicham_avidemux is an exception any balrogMar 28 23:44
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schestowitzlack of money --> Silverlight?Mar 28 23:46
schestowitzI think notMar 28 23:46
schestowitzThey drive themselves right into LOCKInMar 28 23:46
_Hicham_Silverlight is the futureMar 28 23:48
_Hicham_if no other true alternative see lightMar 28 23:48
_Hicham_it is sad to say RoyMar 28 23:48
_Hicham_but it is trueMar 28 23:48
_Hicham_i assisted to a conference animated by an MS guy here in MoroccoMar 28 23:49
Balrog_no, I'll explainMar 28 23:49
_Hicham_it was about Web DevelopmentMar 28 23:49
EruaranYou don't need SilverlightMar 28 23:49
_Hicham_and he talked about MS toolsMar 28 23:49
Balrog_there's this company that has software to do exactly what they wantMar 28 23:49
schestowitz_Hicham_: no, it's not catching onMar 28 23:49
schestowitzMicrosoft admitted thisMar 28 23:49
MinceRis silverlie the only way to lock ourselves into a patent trap and bloat web pages beyond recognition in the future? :>Mar 28 23:49
schestowitzit resorted to bribing companies for itMar 28 23:49
schestowitzNot sustainableMar 28 23:49
Balrog_was developed at CMU and they give it free to universities (free meaning no cost)Mar 28 23:49
Balrog_www.panopto.comMar 28 23:49
schestowitzNow it dumps it for 'free' on people and pays incentivesMar 28 23:49
schestowitzAnd it's still not workingMar 28 23:50
schestowitzBy its own admissionMar 28 23:50
EruaranSilverlight has no futureMar 28 23:50
schestowitz_Hicham_: they hypnotise you, I think. :-)Mar 28 23:50
schestowitz"Resistance is futile!"Mar 28 23:50
schestowitz"Join us or die"Mar 28 23:50
_Hicham_Roy : it was last yearMar 28 23:50
Balrog_you're rightMar 28 23:50
schestowitzSilver lie has been out for agesMar 28 23:51
schestowitzSince 2006 or 07Mar 28 23:51
schestowitzIn soem formMar 28 23:51
schestowitzStill nowhereMar 28 23:51
MinceRwell, they have those green rectangular pieces of paper they hand out in bundles to "hypnotize" people... :>Mar 28 23:51
schestowitzUnless they bribeMar 28 23:51
_Hicham_the truth is : everybody seemed interestedMar 28 23:51
_Hicham_but also we had some questionsMar 28 23:51
schestowitzIn Morocco maybeMar 28 23:51
MinceR_Hicham_: protip: uninterested people didn't visitMar 28 23:51
_Hicham_and big exclamations marksMar 28 23:51
Balrog_then why software like the one 'we're' using?Mar 28 23:51
_Hicham_one thing that we paid attention tooMar 28 23:51
_Hicham_is that they managed to change basic SQL SyntaxMar 28 23:52
_Hicham_so instead of writing " SELECT * FROM *"Mar 28 23:52
_Hicham_with MS tools u have to write "FROM * SELECT *"Mar 28 23:53
_Hicham_when we asked him about the reason for this changeMar 28 23:53
_Hicham_he was really smart to answerMar 28 23:53
_Hicham_but not that smartMar 28 23:53
_Hicham_his answer was thatMar 28 23:53
_Hicham_they needed that just for IntelliSenseMar 28 23:53
_Hicham_because, according to their IntelliSense ImplementationMar 28 23:54
_Hicham_u have to choose the table firstMar 28 23:54
_Hicham_then the rowMar 28 23:54
_Hicham_but it was just as alwaysMar 28 23:54
_Hicham_a nasty form of Lock-InMar 28 23:55
_Hicham_that is what they r always trying to doMar 28 23:55
_Hicham_and I was shocked to know that this guy was a former J2EE developerMar 28 23:56
_Hicham_and he told us that he joined MS because he is better paid thereMar 28 23:56
MinceRm-stools!Mar 28 23:56
EruaranMoney talksMar 28 23:57
MinceRsql sucks, no matter how they twist itMar 28 23:57
MinceRbs12 should have spreadMar 28 23:57
_Hicham_MinceR : it is hard to convert all existing SGBDsMar 28 23:57
MinceRwhat's an SGBD?Mar 28 23:57
_Hicham_DBMSMar 28 23:58
_Hicham_sorryMar 28 23:58
_Hicham_SGBD is in frenchMar 28 23:58
MinceRohMar 28 23:58
_Hicham_DataBase Management System = Système de Gestion de Bases de DonnéesMar 28 23:58
_Hicham_Microsoft Implementation of things is weirdMar 28 23:59
_Hicham_in every fieldMar 28 23:59

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