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03.27.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 26th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:13 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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schestowitz Nice project they got there: Free books! < http://www.tuxradar.com/cont… > Mar 26 00:04
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schestowitz Eruaran: lots of good KDE news today Mar 26 00:55
schestowitz I’ll post some shortly in daily links Mar 26 00:55
schestowitz Seigo is back ti blogging too Mar 26 00:56
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balzac MinceR: I agree about the SSL scare-screen when you have no certificate-authority. Mar 26 03:33
balzac I’m not scared of encryption for its own sake. Mar 26 03:34
balzac A plugin would be good for that, and there are also variants of FF which don’t carry the trademark, so they can allow informed users to shoulder more risk. Mar 26 03:34
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schestowitz Moin’ Mar 26 09:04
PetoKraus :) same for you, mate :P Mar 26 09:08
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MinceR hay Mar 26 09:48
oiaohm ? Mar 26 09:48
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trmanco lol Mar 26 09:50
amd-linux did you guys already test Google Chromium Linux Alpha? I just “benchmarked” it against FF 3.5 beta3 and boy, that is a difference…. Mar 26 09:51
MinceR not yet Mar 26 09:52
oiaohm Chromium will beat firefox hands down. Mar 26 09:52
amd-linux from my feeling, Chromium is at least 3x faster than Shiretoko Mar 26 09:52
trmanco yeah Mar 26 09:52
MinceR shiretoko is ff3.5? Mar 26 09:52
trmanco but Chrome is also -10x extensible than Firefox Mar 26 09:52
amd-linux its amazing it starts within nothing Mar 26 09:52
oiaohm Chromium does not have the lead weight of sqlite and other things on it. Mar 26 09:53
amd-linux shiretoko is FF 3.5 beta3 Mar 26 09:53
trmanco MinceR, yes nightly versions Mar 26 09:53
MinceR links2 starts instantly too ;) Mar 26 09:53
amd-linux ;-) Mar 26 09:53
oiaohm Were you using a ext3 or ext4 partition where firefox was running. Mar 26 09:53
amd-linux ext4 for both Mar 26 09:53
oiaohm ext3 kinka nobbles sqlite Mar 26 09:53
trmanco MinceR, no javascript in links Mar 26 09:53
trmanco I like w3m Mar 26 09:53
MinceR we were discussing startup time Mar 26 09:53
oiaohm konqueror vs Chromium would be more intersting. Mar 26 09:54
oiaohm Both use releated rendering engines. Mar 26 09:54
MinceR i think startup time is just a little part of what matters Mar 26 09:54
amd-linux well anyway for what do I need a database in my browser? honestly, do you have so many bookmarks? Mar 26 09:54
trmanco oops, I thought you guys were discussing javascript speed Mar 26 09:54
MinceR i care more about how it will perform if i open 12 tabs with typically bloated pages in them :> Mar 26 09:54
amd-linux I dont and if so I would you Google Notes or something like this Mar 26 09:55
MinceR rendering and javascript speed both figures into it Mar 26 09:55
oiaohm Chromium will currently wine that MinceR Mar 26 09:55
oiaohm wine/win Mar 26 09:55
oiaohm Chromium will force Firefox to fix up performance issues. Mar 26 09:55
amd-linux Chromium on Moblin that will be a nice team Mar 26 09:55
oiaohm 16 seconds complete boot of Moblin is quite impressive. Mar 26 09:55
oiaohm Interface in 8 Mar 26 09:56
amd-linux Moblin Alpha1 started much faster in Virtualbox here that my host OS Ubuntu 8.10 Mar 26 09:56
amd-linux although Ubuntu 9.04 is also a huge improvement Mar 26 09:56
amd-linux with ext4, very fast Mar 26 09:56
amd-linux but not like Moblin. Moblin is really impressive. Mar 26 09:57
schestowitz oiaohm: Firefox already works on performance Mar 26 09:58
schestowitz I posted about 3 links last night Mar 26 09:58
schestowitz Chromium pushes to them, in part Mar 26 09:58
schestowitz Konqueror is not particularly fast based on my experience. Mar 26 09:58
oiaohm I should have been more targeted KDE 4.x version of Konqueror Mar 26 09:59
oiaohm The 3.x lines of it are not that fast. Mar 26 09:59
amd-linux for me, it is very much about starting – and here, FF got a lame duck Mar 26 09:59
amd-linux Chromium starts as if it sits on a ramdisk Mar 26 09:59
oiaohm Konqueror 3.5 beats firefox in starting too. Mar 26 10:00
oiaohm Beating firefox in starting is not that hard. Mar 26 10:00
amd-linux and imagine it has to invoke a terminal winow first here as it is Alpha Mar 26 10:00
MinceR sadly, ext4 is a data destroyer with its default settings. Mar 26 10:01
amd-linux but startup times are important as it is what you feel as a user. page rendering in 0.5 or 0.7 secs to me is not important I have DSL anyway Mar 26 10:01
oiaohm Ext4 is not marked for productin use yet MinceR Mar 26 10:01
oiaohm Ext4 for production use is in 2.6.30 that is not released yet. Mar 26 10:01
MinceR its design is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what journaling is for and what POSIX applies to Mar 26 10:01
MinceR thankfully, there are 2 settings you can set that makes it behave reliably Mar 26 10:02
oiaohm Look at Ext3 its not that much better in lot of areas. Mar 26 10:02
MinceR (afaik) Mar 26 10:02
amd-linux well, I love EXT4 as it gives Ubuntu a nice performance push Mar 26 10:02
MinceR ext3 can be trusted to not zero out your files on a power outage with default settings Mar 26 10:02
oiaohm Ext4 has fix up patches for 2.6.30 that cover the issues you are talking about MinceR Mar 26 10:03
amd-linux MinceR, but I still came in situations where it was a nightmare to restore – with ext3 on server installations Mar 26 10:03
MinceR oiaohm: indeed, but they’re nondefault, afaik Mar 26 10:03
amd-linux the best imho is to use virtual machines and regular snapshots Mar 26 10:04
oiaohm Ie merge window for 2.6.30 is not open yet. Mar 26 10:04
oiaohm I have seen some of the planed patches and yes alterations to defualt is included MinceR Mar 26 10:04
PetoKraus ext4 pfff Mar 26 10:05
oiaohm The price of using a file system before its declared production ready is sometime data loss. Mar 26 10:05
oiaohm Becides ext4 is the last of its line. Mar 26 10:05
oiaohm Btrfs will most likely take over from it. Mar 26 10:05
amd-linux then comes butter-fs :-) Mar 26 10:05
oiaohm btrfs or tux Mar 26 10:05
oiaohm Yes there is a filesystem called tux Mar 26 10:06
amd-linux tux is a one man show? Mar 26 10:06
PetoKraus tux is not meant to be for home use Mar 26 10:06
PetoKraus as far as i gathered Mar 26 10:06
amd-linux as far as I know not many developers? Mar 26 10:06
PetoKraus yeah Mar 26 10:06
amd-linux while butter is backed by Oracle Mar 26 10:06
oiaohm Lot can happen between now and next year. Mar 26 10:06
PetoKraus anyway, jfs suits me better Mar 26 10:06
PetoKraus than any ext now Mar 26 10:06
oiaohm I am just being future careful saying tux Mar 26 10:07
PetoKraus i’m just scared of these “data losses” Mar 26 10:07
PetoKraus what i would like to see fixed is the xorg stack Mar 26 10:07
PetoKraus wayland, anyone? Mar 26 10:07
oiaohm wayland is a testing ground. Mar 26 10:08
PetoKraus but in a year’s time… Mar 26 10:08
oiaohm Major things holding up the update to the xorg stack are drivers and galluin3d Mar 26 10:08
PetoKraus well i would like to fix the leaks Mar 26 10:08
PetoKraus the memory leaks Mar 26 10:08
MinceR my problem with the ext4 failure is the excuse Ted T’so (sp?) made up for it Mar 26 10:09
oiaohm Memory leaks are way less operating in DRI2 mode than DRI1 Mar 26 10:09
PetoKraus it’s good Mar 26 10:09
oiaohm with standard x.org Mar 26 10:09
PetoKraus the excuse i mean Mar 26 10:09
PetoKraus he has a point Mar 26 10:09
MinceR no, he doesn’t Mar 26 10:11
MinceR the POSIX standard doesn’t specify journaling either, does it? Mar 26 10:11
amd-linux did you guys here anything new about a native port of Steam to Linux? That is what I am really waiting for…. TF crashes here with fglrx even when I use PlayOnLinux Mar 26 10:11
MinceR by his logic it shouldn’t be implemented Mar 26 10:11
PetoKraus MinceR: i don’t care about journaling Mar 26 10:11
PetoKraus i care about programmers not doing fsync() Mar 26 10:11
MinceR also, by that logic no new features, no performance or reliability improvements should be implemented either Mar 26 10:11
MinceR ever Mar 26 10:11
PetoKraus i mean, even at Glasgow they tell you to do fsync() Mar 26 10:11
MinceR the whole idea of data journaling (or metadata journaling _with_ ordered writes) is that the fs remains consistent Mar 26 10:12
MinceR and not in the XFS sense where it makes you lose your data Mar 26 10:12
MinceR if you didn’t care about consistency, why use journaling or run fsck after a crash at all? Mar 26 10:12
MinceR bbl Mar 26 10:13
oiaohm journaling is not the only solution to conistancy. Mar 26 10:13
oiaohm atomic writes is another way. Mar 26 10:13
PetoKraus hmm, reiser4 :P Mar 26 10:14
oiaohm I will never fell sorry for anyone using a filesystem before its declared production ready. Mar 26 10:15
PetoKraus :) Mar 26 10:16
PetoKraus I will never feel sorry for anyone using ubuntu :P Mar 26 10:16
PetoKraus oh beranger got me raging last time Mar 26 10:16
trmanco :| Mar 26 10:17
PetoKraus with his “i want something lightweight, not rolling release, not time freeze, with source codes, easy, with all the apps i want” attitude Mar 26 10:17
PetoKraus it’s like standing on the crossroads and saying, i need to go somewhere, but i can’t go left, and i can’t go right, because i don’t like the road, and i can’t go forward, because there’s a car. Mar 26 10:18
PetoKraus h4lp. Mar 26 10:18
PetoKraus :) Mar 26 10:19
schestowitz PetoKraus: so he’s back to Linux, sort of? Mar 26 10:27
schestowitz Attention-whoring with Windows stuff ain’t working out for him, is it? Mar 26 10:27
schestowitz BN spews some errors… DB issues. Mar 26 10:44
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oiaohm His arguments fell in on him schestowitz Mar 26 10:58
trmanco schestowitz, repair and optimize :-P Mar 26 11:02
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schestowitz SJVN fixed the spelling of my name in his article Mar 26 11:19
schestowitz He misread my notes that said: Mar 26 11:19
schestowitz One key point, as expressed by a friend of mine this morning, is that there are two stories being told or at least two versions of the same story: “Version one: Microsoft and Novell work on interoperability for the benefit of the Linux community.”; “Version two: Microsoft infects Open Source with the Novell/Microsoft patent covenant, Mono/.NET, and Microsoft codecs.” Mar 26 11:20
schestowitz SJVN didn’t see that it was attributed to a friend Mar 26 11:20
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_Hicham_ Hi Roy Mar 26 11:23
oiaohm Desporation is setting in on the MS side they are trying to fud push businesses into not waiting for sp1 of windows 7 Mar 26 11:24
_Hicham_ oiaohm : do u have any internal news about Windows 7? Mar 26 11:28
oiaohm Other than already classing it secuirty alterations as pointless? Mar 26 11:29
oiaohm And going to drive most techs up the wall by removing there classic view. Mar 26 11:29
_Hicham_ what classic view? Mar 26 11:31
oiaohm control panel classic view. Mar 26 11:34
oiaohm In vista and XP it opens up ways to get to a few more functions to correct problems. Mar 26 11:34
oiaohm Windows 7 its registry diving to fix them now. Mar 26 11:34
schestowitz oiaohm: there was another astroturf, I think Mar 26 11:34
schestowitz Some unnamed entity push the idea of that Beta of Vista7 should be released as final Mar 26 11:35
schestowitz They set up some domain Mar 26 11:35
schestowitz It’s part of the hype factory, I think Mar 26 11:35
oiaohm Windows 7 is 100 percent not ready. Mar 26 11:35
oiaohm It secuirty is no where near ready. Mar 26 11:35
schestowitz I know. Mar 26 11:35
schestowitz I wrote like 5 posts about Vista7 security Mar 26 11:36
oiaohm I would say at least another 12 months is required Mar 26 11:36
schestowitz It fails badly Mar 26 11:36
schestowitz Not even VIsta had so much bad security-related PR prior to release Mar 26 11:36
oiaohm Somehow I don’t think MS will be waiting that long for release. Mar 26 11:36
oiaohm Vista had bad secuiryt. Mar 26 11:36
schestowitz oiaohm: yes, 2010 is expected release year Mar 26 11:36
oiaohm MS keeps on missing the major problem. Mar 26 11:36
oiaohm Services. Mar 26 11:36
schestowitz Yes Mar 26 11:36
oiaohm By 2010 lot of the need Linux desktop alterations should be in place and stablised. Mar 26 11:37
schestowitz Which ones? KDE 4.5? Mar 26 11:44
oiaohm DRI2 and KMS to stablies the desktop so crashes of X11 no longer take out everything. Mar 26 11:46
oiaohm Hopefully btrfs so snapshoting of filesystem for user roll backs can be enabled. Mar 26 11:47
oiaohm And machine to machine migration of running applications.  So laptop to desktop and back again with applications. Mar 26 11:47
MinceR oiaohm: like i’ve said before, Ts’o’s excuse wasn’t that it isn’t production ready, it was that POSIX doesn’t require it Mar 26 11:48
oiaohm Yes in non production state they try getting away with the min able MinceR Mar 26 11:49
oiaohm They did the same with ext3 too MinceR Mar 26 11:49
MinceR ext3 worked Mar 26 11:49
oiaohm Before ext3 got production ready status there were quite a few alterations to its default settings. Mar 26 11:50
oiaohm Yes it was a long time ago people either never lived through it or want to forget some the the issues before production ready status was granted. Mar 26 11:51
zer0c00l http://gracelyne.wordpress.com/2009… Mar 26 11:56
zer0c00l :P Mar 26 11:56
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schestowitz zer0c00l: what to do about it….? Mar 26 12:00
zer0c00l just info Mar 26 12:01
schestowitz They get the Microsoft treatment/orgy. Mar 26 12:01
zer0c00l FYI Mar 26 12:01
zer0c00l hahaha Mar 26 12:01
schestowitz Moneyfest Mar 26 12:01
schestowitz We pay you, you pay us Mar 26 12:01
schestowitz Help us addict kids for a living Mar 26 12:01
schestowitz That’s why they call it “Dark Forces” :-) Mar 26 12:01
Eruaran hi all Mar 26 12:32
_Hicham_ hi Eruaran Mar 26 12:33
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 Mar 26 12:34
Eruaran hey Mar 26 12:36
Eruaran I think I know how to measure the success of GNU/Linux Mar 26 12:36
Eruaran Watch how rabid and feral Microsoft gets Mar 26 12:37
Eruaran The worse Microsoft behaves, the more successful GNU/Linux must be Mar 26 12:38
oiaohm Ms is self destructing. Mar 26 12:39
oiaohm Nothing really linux is doing that much. Mar 26 12:39
oiaohm They were the idiots who tried to under cut Linux to win. Mar 26 12:39
oiaohm Only to put there complete market at risk. Mar 26 12:39
MinceR their complete market was at risk anyway Mar 26 12:40
MinceR since a competitor they couldn’t buy appeared Mar 26 12:40
Eruaran Its either lower the price of your product to compete and face diminishing profit margins, or keep your profit margin per license high and allow yourself to be marginalized… Does Microsoft really have a third option other than patent tomfoolery ? Mar 26 12:41
oiaohm I really wished MS had been stupid enough to enter the embeded motherboard market. Mar 26 12:41
oiaohm Entering a patent war MS risks being out gunned. Mar 26 12:41
MinceR if their platform didn’t suck, they could release it under a FLOSS license. Mar 26 12:42
oiaohm Microsoft does have a third option copy sun. Mar 26 12:42
MinceR then again, if their platform didn’t suck, they’d have a chance of competing based on merit and quality. Mar 26 12:42
oiaohm Fire most of there staff Mar 26 12:42
oiaohm Invest there money and wait it out. Mar 26 12:42
Eruaran And get bought out by IBM ? ;) Mar 26 12:43
oiaohm Yep eventually. Mar 26 12:43
oiaohm Yep wait it out until someone decides to buy you. Mar 26 12:43
oiaohm Then profit. Mar 26 12:44
oiaohm thrid option see MS out the software game. Mar 26 12:44
Eruaran Who would buy Microsoft after their value has diminished greatly and don’t have a real strategy entering into a new paradigm of free software and service based offerings ? Mar 26 12:45
oiaohm Neither did sun with the great colospe of Unix. Mar 26 12:45
oiaohm In the waiting stage they restructed and made themselfs a sellable product. Mar 26 12:45
oiaohm Third option really suxs for MS. Mar 26 12:46
oiaohm Problem MS has people will be demarding better quality programs. Mar 26 12:47
oiaohm Building better quality programs cost developer time. Mar 26 12:47
MinceR it also needs a restructuring of a company Mar 26 12:48
MinceR probably new people too Mar 26 12:48
oiaohm There income is reduced. Mar 26 12:48
_Hicham_ that is why they created codeplex Mar 26 12:48
oiaohm Yep Mar 26 12:48
_Hicham_ hoping to gather a community around them Mar 26 12:48
oiaohm They are in trouble big time. Mar 26 12:48
MinceR that won’t do much Mar 26 12:48
_Hicham_ and offering visual studio for free for students Mar 26 12:48
oiaohm Yep. Mar 26 12:48
MinceR they have to change themselves otherwise they’re doomed Mar 26 12:48
oiaohm they need cheep developers or they die. Mar 26 12:48
oiaohm Problem is MS people have closed source so heavly ingrained there is not that many free programmer. Mar 26 12:49
_Hicham_ codeplex is slow to be adopted Mar 26 12:49
oiaohm MS layed the seads that are killing them. Mar 26 12:49
oiaohm They birthed the idea that closed source was good. Mar 26 12:49
_Hicham_ there is the shared license thing Mar 26 12:49
_Hicham_ but it is useless Mar 26 12:49
oiaohm Again desperation. Mar 26 12:50
oiaohm MS will get more and more desperate. Mar 26 12:50
_Hicham_ because the shared license is for api clarification Mar 26 12:50
Eruaran Microsoft seems schizophrenic Mar 26 12:50
_Hicham_ i think that google developed chrome with a shared license thing Mar 26 12:50
oiaohm If you told most people 8 years ago that MS would create a shared license and a codeplex they would have laughed at you. Mar 26 12:50
MinceR shared source was their first attempt at lying that they’re for FLOSS Mar 26 12:50
_Hicham_ because many of its api are undocumented Mar 26 12:50
Eruaran Chromium is open Mar 26 12:50
MinceR they’ve already realized that it has failed Mar 26 12:50
oiaohm chrome is gpl Mar 26 12:50
oiaohm Opps Mar 26 12:51
Eruaran I read Google’s license Mar 26 12:51
oiaohm That is a branch. Mar 26 12:51
Eruaran Its ok Mar 26 12:51
oiaohm Google uses a really open licence Mar 26 12:51
_Hicham_ Chrome is not GPL Mar 26 12:51
_Hicham_ Chromium is GPL Mar 26 12:51
Eruaran It includes a clause against patent aggressors Mar 26 12:51
Eruaran Oh sorry Mar 26 12:51
Eruaran I’m thinking of Android Mar 26 12:52
_Hicham_ Chrome=Chromium+Proprietary Components Mar 26 12:52
oiaohm Google is only the the OS war for 1 reason. Mar 26 12:52
oiaohm They need customers able to access them. Mar 26 12:52
oiaohm MS has caused Google to attack them. Mar 26 12:52
oiaohm If MS never came after the web market google would have never attacked them. Mar 26 12:53
oiaohm This is MS problem all its actions are coming back and biting. Mar 26 12:53
_Hicham_ Microsoft on the Web is crappy Mar 26 12:53
oiaohm Yep remember Microsoft at one point threated to destroy google. Mar 26 12:54
oiaohm They never had the skills to back that threat up. Mar 26 12:54
oiaohm Problem is google does have the means and the skills to over time nuke MS. Mar 26 12:54
MinceR and who will nuke google? Mar 26 12:55
oiaohm Unlikely anyone will be able to. Mar 26 12:55
MinceR :( Mar 26 12:55
oiaohm Its a simple lack of resoursed problem. Mar 26 12:56
oiaohm There is no simple way to replace googles database of sites. Mar 26 12:56
_Hicham_ Google is gonna take over the Web Mar 26 12:56
_Hicham_ there is no way out Mar 26 12:56
Eruaran They already have their own copy Mar 26 12:56
_Hicham_ it is starting with a browser Mar 26 12:56
oiaohm the internet archive might be the only place that could take on google. Mar 26 12:56
MinceR why? Mar 26 12:57
oiaohm Its database of sites MinceR Mar 26 12:57
oiaohm That is what going to screw you trying to replace google. Mar 26 12:57
MinceR anyone can build one Mar 26 12:57
oiaohm How long do you think it takes to spider and index. Mar 26 12:57
MinceR if there was enough need in the community for it, it could even be done in a distributed way Mar 26 12:57
_Hicham_ an eternity Mar 26 12:57
MinceR like YaCy does Mar 26 12:58
oiaohm Then you get your search method that works. Mar 26 12:58
MinceR google spiders every few days, don’t they? Mar 26 12:58
oiaohm Do you know how big googles servers are. Mar 26 12:58
_Hicham_ MinceR : every few hours Mar 26 12:58
oiaohm Yes hours MinceR Mar 26 12:58
MinceR others can buy big servers too Mar 26 12:58
oiaohm Its not 1 big server. Mar 26 12:59
MinceR anyone can buy any number of servers Mar 26 12:59
_Hicham_ I put a software on sourceforge.net on 11:00 am, by 2:00 pm, it was indexed all over the web Mar 26 12:59
MinceR it’s only a question of money Mar 26 12:59
oiaohm You are talking about 1 000 000 shipping container servers. Mar 26 12:59
oiaohm As a starting number. Mar 26 12:59
MinceR remember google started gradually Mar 26 12:59
MinceR and some other companies have a large network of servers too Mar 26 13:00
MinceR CDN operators, for example Mar 26 13:00
Eruaran You’ve got to have something people want in order to justify the cost of building the kind of server farms you’d need to equal Google’s infrastructure. Mar 26 13:00
MinceR and once again, a peer-to-peer approach is still feasible Mar 26 13:00
oiaohm There is no server farm the size of google other than google MinceR Mar 26 13:00
MinceR oiaohm: not _yet_ Mar 26 13:00
oiaohm You would have to build 1 Mar 26 13:00
Eruaran You’ve got to have something that captures people’s attention and draws them away from using Google, its that simple. Mar 26 13:00
oiaohm Not a simple process. Mar 26 13:00
MinceR the first adopters won’t need that much capacity anyway Mar 26 13:01
oiaohm Google was the most borning web site on earth when it stared. Mar 26 13:01
MinceR as the number of users grows, so can the capacity Mar 26 13:01
oiaohm Remember yahoo and google both started at the same time. Mar 26 13:01
oiaohm Yahoo fancy interface. Mar 26 13:01
oiaohm google dead plain Mar 26 13:01
oiaohm why did google win good search results. Mar 26 13:01
MinceR PageRank worked well back then Mar 26 13:02
MinceR not sure if it still does Mar 26 13:02
oiaohm Search engine without good search results is a paper weight. Mar 26 13:02
Eruaran There was a kid in Melbourne I think it was Mar 26 13:02
Eruaran I think he was going to RMIT Mar 26 13:02
Eruaran He came up with some brilliant search algorithm Mar 26 13:02
oiaohm google spends a lot of money each year keeping ahead of anyone trying to cheat the ranking system. Mar 26 13:03
Eruaran There was a bidding war Mar 26 13:03
Eruaran Google won Mar 26 13:03
oiaohm Google normally does win those biding wars. Mar 26 13:03
Eruaran He works for Google now Mar 26 13:03
MinceR spending a lot of money is not the same as succeeding Mar 26 13:03
Eruaran They spend a lot of money buying brains Mar 26 13:03
Eruaran Brains they don’t want working for the competition Mar 26 13:03
MinceR and as they piss people off more and more, those costs will grow Mar 26 13:03
oiaohm you have to catch up in hardware and brains MinceR Mar 26 13:03
oiaohm Google avoid where able pissing people off. Mar 26 13:04
MinceR not really Mar 26 13:04
oiaohm They do. Mar 26 13:04
Eruaran Sooner or later, someone will come up with something, and Google wont be able to buy them. Mar 26 13:04
ushimitsudoki not just that – many other “search engines” lost focus on search and tried to be “portals”. Google does this much better now, by allowing all the customization. A “portal” where someone else decides what is shown is far inferior to a portal that I can control. Mar 26 13:04
MinceR if they did, we wouldn’t be having this discussion Mar 26 13:04
oiaohm Someone already has put up stuff google cannot buy MinceR Mar 26 13:05
oiaohm google is more than happy to just out compete. Mar 26 13:05
Eruaran How many search engines are there that don’t suck ? Mar 26 13:05
MinceR 141241 < oiaohm> Google avoid where able pissing people off. Mar 26 13:05
MinceR if they did, we wouldn’t be having this discussion Mar 26 13:05
MinceR (in context) Mar 26 13:05
oiaohm Not the were able MinceR Mar 26 13:06
oiaohm Note Mar 26 13:06
oiaohm Its basically impossiable to do business without pissing someone off. Mar 26 13:06
oiaohm Google keeps those numbers really low compared to a lot of other companies. Mar 26 13:06
oiaohm Out competing google is going to be extreamlly hard. Mar 26 13:07
oiaohm Google lives for competition.  They even run compeition between there branches. Mar 26 13:07
oiaohm A competition just becomes and other thing to do better than for them. Mar 26 13:07
oiaohm they are not posioned by MS style of business. Mar 26 13:08
oiaohm Destroying Google is like trying to destroy cisco systems. Mar 26 13:08
oiaohm Both very resistant to destruction. Mar 26 13:08
ushimitsudoki The only likely way for Google to “fail” is if they make a series of poor decisions (which is quite possible). I think it is extremely unlikely though, that some magic search algorithm will come along that “dethrones” Google. Mar 26 13:09
oiaohm Basically google would have to kill google. Mar 26 13:10
ushimitsudoki exactly Mar 26 13:10
oiaohm There is basically nothing else strong enough. Mar 26 13:10
ushimitsudoki Microsoft Live Search can not even get something as simple as user language preference right. They are a total joke. Mar 26 13:11
_Hicham_ Google will buy Microsoft, end of the story Mar 26 13:11
oiaohm Depends Mar 26 13:12
oiaohm IBM or HP might by Microsoft as well. Mar 26 13:12
ushimitsudoki Nah, Microsoft has a long long future of leveraging Windows into other markets in front of them. Mar 26 13:12
oiaohm Define long. Mar 26 13:13
ushimitsudoki ~20 years Mar 26 13:13
oiaohm If long is 3 year I might agree. Mar 26 13:13
oiaohm You are not allowing for reactos or wine in your thinking ushimitsudoki Mar 26 13:13
oiaohm Open source is not just attacking MS on 1 side. Mar 26 13:14
_Hicham_ ReactOS is a real threat I think Mar 26 13:14
ushimitsudoki ReactOS is not even worth thinking about. Mar 26 13:14
ushimitsudoki Absolute waste of time Mar 26 13:14
_Hicham_ did u try ReactOS? Mar 26 13:14
_Hicham_ I tried it on Virtual Machine Mar 26 13:14
ushimitsudoki No. Why would I? Mar 26 13:14
ushimitsudoki If I wanted to run Windows, I would run windows. Mar 26 13:15
_Hicham_ and it has almost all Windows features Mar 26 13:15
_Hicham_ the API is going the same way as Windows’ API Mar 26 13:15
oiaohm ushimitsudoki:  you just said the same line unix people said about linux but with Windows about reactos. Mar 26 13:15
ushimitsudoki That is the wrong approach, I think. The “trick” is to show people the value of freedom and the value of the Unix-way; to win on philosophical and technical grounds. Mar 26 13:16
_Hicham_ they almost finished COM+ implementation Mar 26 13:16
ushimitsudoki Unix is not analogous to Windows. Mar 26 13:16
oiaohm Its a double sided hit. Mar 26 13:16
oiaohm If you cannot defeat them one way defeat them the other. Mar 26 13:16
_Hicham_ ReactOS is not a Windows Clone Mar 26 13:16
_Hicham_ remember that Mar 26 13:16
ushimitsudoki ReactOS is a giant waste of time. Huge stinking waste of time. Mar 26 13:17
_Hicham_ its strategy is not like linux with unix Mar 26 13:17
oiaohm Wine means to emulate direct x will increase. Mar 26 13:17
_Hicham_ ReactOS aims to be Windows compatible Mar 26 13:17
_Hicham_ at first Mar 26 13:17
oiaohm ReactOS will force MS value for there OS down. Mar 26 13:17
ushimitsudoki Wine, on the other hand, is an important and signficant project Mar 26 13:17
oiaohm Under livable levels. Mar 26 13:18
_Hicham_ ReactOS is stronger than Wine Mar 26 13:18
ushimitsudoki pfft Mar 26 13:18
oiaohm Really ReactOS and wine are linked. Mar 26 13:18
_Hicham_ it gives a complete platform replacement Mar 26 13:18
_Hicham_ ReactOS and Wine work together Mar 26 13:18
_Hicham_ on DirectX implementation for example Mar 26 13:19
oiaohm There is also the unifiled kenel that aimed to bring windows drivers to linux using reactos data. Mar 26 13:19
oiaohm Basically when windows is documented more options open up. Mar 26 13:19
_Hicham_ that would be pretty interesting Mar 26 13:19
_Hicham_ that is the problem oiaohm Mar 26 13:19
_Hicham_ Windows is not very documented Mar 26 13:20
_Hicham_ and u seen the code from 2004 Mar 26 13:20
_Hicham_ it is just full of swearing and fucking words Mar 26 13:20
oiaohm ReactOS and Wine are both key projects leading to a fianl destruction. Mar 26 13:20
oiaohm MS knows this Mar 26 13:20
oiaohm MS though they had more time.   So planed to do away with NT desing by 2010. Mar 26 13:21
oiaohm Things are happening before MS expected. Mar 26 13:21
ushimitsudoki No. It is an error to assign the same importance to ReactOS as Wine. ReactOS is like 1-3% as important as Wine is. Mar 26 13:21
oiaohm ReactOS opens up access to documentation to reverse windows only drivers or run them by other means ushimitsudoki Mar 26 13:22
oiaohm That is a important final kill off move. Mar 26 13:22
ushimitsudoki In fact, the only value in ReactOS is whatever contributions it makes to the Wine project or other open-source project. On its own, I would call it absolutely worthless. Mar 26 13:22
oiaohm I don’t Mar 26 13:23
_Hicham_ it is important on its own also Mar 26 13:23
oiaohm With virtualisation you could run Reactos inside Linux for lot of those odd ball drivers. Mar 26 13:23
oiaohm Wine does not work on driver support. Mar 26 13:23
_Hicham_ true Mar 26 13:24
oiaohm IE final kill depends on allowing windows to be removed from everyhwere. Mar 26 13:24
_Hicham_ IE is a real threat for the Web Mar 26 13:24
_Hicham_ u can’t remove it from Windows Mar 26 13:24
oiaohm Reactos is important for 1 major reason drivers. Mar 26 13:24
_Hicham_ and u have to use IE on Linux also sometimes Mar 26 13:25
oiaohm Wine is important due to its cross platform nature. Mar 26 13:25
ushimitsudoki The correct answer to the driver problem is linux gaining enough market share so that drivers for linux make as much sense as drivers for windows to OEMs. ReactOS doesn’t help solve that. Mar 26 13:25
oiaohm Different reasons of importance.   Either is more important than there other. To win out right you need both. Mar 26 13:25
oiaohm ushimitsudoki: its old devices. Mar 26 13:26
oiaohm I still have places running windows 3.11 for old strange devices. Mar 26 13:26
ushimitsudoki oiaohm: then virtualize an appropriate old version of windows Mar 26 13:26
oiaohm Or run reactos virtualised that does not need a windows licence ushimitsudoki Mar 26 13:26
oiaohm That the the importance of Reactos cuts off last source of money from Windows OS. Mar 26 13:27
ushimitsudoki ReactOS is like mono. A half-assed clone of a microsoft technology that will always be partially complete, out of date and a distraction at best and dangerous at worse for FLOSS Mar 26 13:27
_Hicham_ wrong Mar 26 13:27
oiaohm You could make the same line about wine ushimitsudoki Mar 26 13:27
ushimitsudoki No you can’t – not and be accurate anyway Mar 26 13:27
oiaohm You can ushimitsudoki Mar 26 13:28
Eruaran Wine is a cleanroom project Mar 26 13:28
ushimitsudoki Wine is not analgous to either ReactOS or mono Mar 26 13:28
_Hicham_ ushimitsudoki : it is reverse engineering Mar 26 13:28
Eruaran Mono isn’t Mar 26 13:28
ushimitsudoki I wish people would stop trying to draw that comparison Mar 26 13:28
oiaohm Wine is cashing a moving target so is Reactos. Mar 26 13:28
oiaohm Both can catch it. Mar 26 13:28
schestowitz oiaohm: why would HP or IBM buy Microsoft? They already have an OS Mar 26 13:28
_Hicham_ Roy : to dominate the Market Mar 26 13:29
oiaohm Its a bit like why is IBM thinking buying SUN. Mar 26 13:29
_Hicham_ Windows is more than 90% on desktops Mar 26 13:29
oiaohm By buying Microsoft they are removed from being a future problem to them. Mar 26 13:29
oiaohm Same way MS has aquired companys that have been a problem to them. Mar 26 13:29
ushimitsudoki HP market Cap: 84B MS market cap: 169B. HP will not be buying MS. Mar 26 13:31
ushimitsudoki talk sense. Mar 26 13:31
oiaohm Who said I was saying today ushimitsudoki Mar 26 13:32
ushimitsudoki when? when exactly do you expect HP market cap to overtake MS? In the next 3-5 years? Mar 26 13:32
schestowitz HP will buy Microsoft…… a hot dog. Mar 26 13:32
ushimitsudoki Microsoft would have to start burning money in the courtyard. Mar 26 13:32
oiaohm You just said exactly what I kinda expect to start happening ushimitsudoki Mar 26 13:33
oiaohm Getting into major legal disputes don’t do bottom line any good. Mar 26 13:34
schestowitz Didn’t work for SCO Mar 26 13:34
ushimitsudoki Microsoft is evil, not mindless. They will not do anything idiotic. They just have a business model that is destined for long term failure, and I mean long-term. Like 20+ years Mar 26 13:34
oiaohm They already have done the idiotic action that could see them doomed in the next 5 years ushimitsudoki Mar 26 13:34
ushimitsudoki ha Mar 26 13:34
ushimitsudoki ha ha ha Mar 26 13:34
oiaohm tomtom case. Mar 26 13:35
oiaohm it is a pandoras box. Mar 26 13:35
Eruaran Market share in shipped units becomes meaningless if everyone is buying their new PC, taking it home and installing another OS. Mar 26 13:35
ushimitsudoki I would call a -2%/yr on the desktop for MS, a stunning rate of victory for us. Mar 26 13:36
oiaohm Tomtom looked weak so they though they could threaten them into just handing over money.  Very idiotic mistake. Mar 26 13:36
ushimitsudoki Microsoft will fail (or drastically change its business model), but it will be a long time coming. Mar 26 13:36
ushimitsudoki Not 3-5 years Mar 26 13:36
Eruaran I do not believe Microsoft will dramatically change. For all their pretense at changing, that is all it is, pretense. Mar 26 13:37
Eruaran And this is why they are doomed. Mar 26 13:37
ushimitsudoki agree it is absolute pretense and PR right now Mar 26 13:37
oiaohm How much money do you think MS has taken in using invalid patents ushimitsudoki Mar 26 13:37
schestowitz Heh. Saying No To A Bonus: Google’s Kordestani Declines His Award < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-goo… > Mar 26 13:37
oiaohm How many people do you think they have taken that money from with valid patents. Mar 26 13:37
ushimitsudoki oiaohm: how is that relevant in any way? Mar 26 13:37
schestowitz oiaohm: Tomtom was just unprecedented for software Mar 26 13:37
schestowitz Microsoft contacted ITC over Primax Mar 26 13:38
oiaohm This is how MS could be already in trouble. Mar 26 13:38
schestowitz So this is not their first patent attack Mar 26 13:38
ushimitsudoki microsoft operates in the same patent environment as every other tech company in the world Mar 26 13:38
schestowitz It’s the first that: 1) involves sw pats; 2) attacks Linux Mar 26 13:38
ushimitsudoki they will suffer (and profit) just like any other tech company Mar 26 13:38
ushimitsudoki the patent system is broken, no doubt Mar 26 13:38
ushimitsudoki sometimes that helps MS, and sometimes is hurts Mar 26 13:38
oiaohm In the process MS most likely formed a lot of illegal contracts. Mar 26 13:38
ushimitsudoki the same for every other tech company Mar 26 13:38
oiaohm Most other tech companies are smart enought to not try finding back doors. Mar 26 13:39
oiaohm And do 100 percent solid contracts. Mar 26 13:39
oiaohm Avoiding patent covering open source as a whole is a very dangous move MS did. Mar 26 13:40
schestowitz http://twitter.com/glynmood… “Hooray! Chromium finally works on my Ubuntu box – all the previous versions just sat there, scratching themselves. “ Mar 26 13:40
oiaohm In a time that MS income has droped even that there market share has basically stayed the same. Mar 26 13:41
oiaohm Its not the time to be risking a major legal battle. Mar 26 13:41
oiaohm MS has to be praying they don’t have a pandoras box from there actions. Mar 26 13:41
oiaohm SCO is a case of a company that had created its own pandoras box. Mar 26 13:42
ushimitsudoki what “pandora’s box” do you think the tomtom situation has opened? Mar 26 13:42
Eruaran Ballmer is finished. Mar 26 13:42
Eruaran He’s making shareholders too nervous. Mar 26 13:42
ushimitsudoki i hope not Mar 26 13:42
ushimitsudoki Ballmer is the best (unwitting) ally opensource has in microsoft right now Mar 26 13:42
ushimitsudoki if they get rid of him, the danger of someone not-insane taking the helm might happen Mar 26 13:43
oiaohm tomtom resisted ms.  Now it could turn out GPL licence restrictions hold on patent so equalling all MS patents agreed with other parties are now accessable to open source. Mar 26 13:43
ushimitsudoki imagine if Ballmer wasn’t drooling at the mouth crazy, and was crafty and sly instead? Mar 26 13:43
oiaohm Most of MS patent portfolie could be rendered useless against a lot of companies. Mar 26 13:43
oiaohm So leaving it fully open to a major patent attack. Mar 26 13:44
oiaohm To the point it cannot ship producted due to not paying for patents. Mar 26 13:44
ushimitsudoki Imagine some one like Bill Hilf or Sam Ramji in charge of MS, but with the same goals as Ballmer Mar 26 13:44
ushimitsudoki that is very scary to me Mar 26 13:44
oiaohm Pandoras box. Mar 26 13:44
schestowitz About 10 million copies of OpenOffice.org are now downloaded per month: http://www.mealldubh.org/index.php/2… Mar 26 13:44
oiaohm You don’t want to ever create something like that. Mar 26 13:45
Eruaran I don’t think it matters who becomes CEO of Microsoft after Ballmer. Microsoft has painted itself into a corner, and whoever comes next will have to radically remake Microsoft or take his golden handshake and consign Microsoft to the IT dinosaur nostalgia heap of history. Mar 26 13:45
schestowitz ushimitsudoki: agreed re: ballmer Mar 26 13:45
schestowitz You want a madman running the nuthouse that competes with you Mar 26 13:46
ushimitsudoki Eruaran: I hope you are right. But I could see how someone who understands FLOSS, but is hostile to it could do -real- damage. Ballmer is too out of touch to land any good punches Mar 26 13:46
schestowitz His investors want him tossed Mar 26 13:46
schestowitz I got E-mails about it Mar 26 13:46
ushimitsudoki Well, if I was a MS investor I would want him out too! :) But I’m not, and I want MS to fail, so keep the man in! Heck of a job, Stevie! Mar 26 13:47
oiaohm Mind you a patent pandoras box MS would have the privilage of being the first company dumb enough to set off that theorical. Mar 26 13:48
Eruaran PC: “hey who are you ?” Mar 26 13:48
Eruaran Tux: “I’m a penguin” Mar 26 13:49
Eruaran PC: “no way, you’re linux aren’t you !” Mar 26 13:49
Eruaran Tux: “gah, the mission’s been compromised” Mar 26 13:49
Eruaran PC: “I’m gonna get you Linux” Mar 26 13:49
Eruaran Tux: “stop chasing me I’m a penguin” Mar 26 13:49
Eruaran Mac: :) Mar 26 13:51
oiaohm Tuz: processed to eat the PC Mar 26 13:51
schestowitz The Gavin Clarke MS mouthpiece: “Microsoft: Judge us by our deeds on open source” < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03… > Mar 26 13:52
Eruaran haha read that Mar 26 13:52
Eruaran Thats almost an April fool’s joke Mar 26 13:52
Eruaran wow Mar 26 13:54
Eruaran since the latest updates Konqueror just crashes every time you try to fire up YouTube Mar 26 13:54
schestowitz http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009… “Subscription sales at Red Hat rose by 14.4 per cent” Mar 26 13:58
schestowitz Eruaran: I will write about Clarke and MS Mar 26 13:58
schestowitz Long one.. Mar 26 13:58
schestowitz Is anyone paying attention to this in the mainstream media? Mar 26 13:59
schestowitz MainSTEAM :-) Mar 26 13:59
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schestowitz Why is The Register employing this troll… “Hey, Red Hat – Open-source help still lousy? “Zealots” wanted”” http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/… Mar 26 14:01
schestowitz IBM cuts 5000 workers (offshoring?) — Pink slips at Big Blue < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0… > Mar 26 14:04
schestowitz Linux on the desktop:oh, not that debate again!  < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/… > Mar 26 14:08
schestowitz NEC Australia restructure, sheds 153 jobs < http://www.itwire.com/conten… > Mar 26 14:11
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schestowitz “Obama’s Department of “Justice”, full of former RIAA lawyers, has come to the support of the RIAA.” < http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-j… > Mar 26 14:13
schestowitz http://www.stallman.org/archives/200… “The US and other countries plan to spend billions on an arms race for space weapons. The way to avoid this would be a disarmament treaty. Russia and China called for such a treaty, but the US blocked it” Mar 26 14:14
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-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all. One of our server sponsors appears to be having connectivity issues. Please keep with us while we try to resolve the issues. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for using freenode! Mar 26 14:31
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schestowitz All back now? Mar 26 14:33
schestowitz Some of these were dropped off my server’s visibility: <schestowitz> Linux on the desktop:oh, not that debate again!  < http://www.itwire.com/conte… > <schestowitz> NEC Australia restructure, sheds 153 jobs < http://www.itwire.com/conten… > Mar 26 14:33
schestowitz <schestowitz> “Obama’s Department of “Justice”, full of former RIAA lawyers, has come to the support of the RIAA.” < http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jan-apr.h… > Mar 26 14:34
schestowitz <schestowitz> http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jan-apr… “The US and other countries plan to spend billions on an arms race for space weapons. The way to avoid this would be a disarmament treaty. Russia and China called for such a treaty, but the US blocked it” Mar 26 14:34
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schestowitz The world’s first programmer a female:  Celebrating Ada Lovelace: the ‘world’s first programmer’  < http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsh… > Mar 26 14:43
PetoKraus cleaning a laptop keyboard on the fly is fun! Mar 26 14:45
MinceR “on the fly” meaning? Mar 26 14:45
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PetoKraus the laptop running Mar 26 14:46
PetoKraus but, since i can type, it worked Mar 26 14:46
schestowitz Vacuum cleaner? Mar 26 14:46
PetoKraus nah Mar 26 14:46
PetoKraus just smashing it around Mar 26 14:46
MinceR lol Mar 26 14:46
PetoKraus and blowing air into it Mar 26 14:46
PetoKraus MinceR: it’s most effective way Mar 26 14:46
PetoKraus you’d wonder Mar 26 14:46
PetoKraus but it is Mar 26 14:47
MinceR it’s also the most effective way to break the laptop :> Mar 26 14:47
schestowitz For a laptop Mar 26 14:47
PetoKraus well Mar 26 14:47
PetoKraus not if you take the keyboard out Mar 26 14:47
schestowitz With desktop keyboard you can flip it and bang it on the table:-) Mar 26 14:47
PetoKraus you can do that with a laptop one as well Mar 26 14:47
schestowitz Yes Mar 26 14:47
schestowitz Screws=takes time Mar 26 14:47
PetoKraus that’s why i’m saying “cleaning a laptop keyboard on the fly is fun” Mar 26 14:47
PetoKraus yeah. Mar 26 14:47
PetoKraus god Mar 26 14:48
MinceR yes? Mar 26 14:48
PetoKraus i’m trying hard to get the temp in my room under 12°© Mar 26 14:48
PetoKraus *C Mar 26 14:48
PetoKraus cause that’s the bottom of the range of the thermometer i have here Mar 26 14:48
MinceR :) Mar 26 14:48
PetoKraus i want to see what happens then Mar 26 14:48
schestowitz http://www.computerworld.com/action/a… (  Gone but not forgotten: 10 operating systems the world left behind ) There is still one called ADIOS…. a GNU/Linux distro Mar 26 14:48
PetoKraus if it stays at 12, or discolours completely Mar 26 14:49
MinceR what kind of thermometer? Mar 26 14:49
PetoKraus hmm Mar 26 14:49
PetoKraus i dunno how do you call it Mar 26 14:49
MinceR if it’s mercury or similar, the liquid will just recede into the reservoir Mar 26 14:49
PetoKraus it’s basically just a piece of thermosensitive plastic foil Mar 26 14:49
MinceR oh Mar 26 14:49
MinceR you could put it into the fridge :> Mar 26 14:49
PetoKraus something like this: http://www.hndrd.com/images/Wine%20… Mar 26 14:50
PetoKraus i think that one is calibrated in F Mar 26 14:50
PetoKraus i hope it’s not C Mar 26 14:50
PetoKraus 62°C chardonnay might be quite painful Mar 26 14:50
PetoKraus it reacts quite fast, though Mar 26 14:51
PetoKraus you breathe on it and it whoops up to 20 almost instanteniously Mar 26 14:51
PetoKraus well, ok, you need two breaths, but still Mar 26 14:51
PetoKraus ok, it’s too cold, i better close the window Mar 26 14:53
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PetoKraus right Mar 26 14:56
PetoKraus freezer test proved, that it doesn’t get completely black Mar 26 14:56
MinceR :) Mar 26 14:56
_Hicham_ where is Roy? Mar 26 15:12
PetoKraus he was here half an hour ago Mar 26 15:13
schestowitz Head of FSFE just mailed us for correction. Hmmmm… The way I remembered it, you founded FSFE and although I thought the founder was German he now lives in Switzerland. By the way, I met FSFE for dinner back in 2006 right here at Manchester. I’m a fan. :- Mar 26 15:14
*schestowitz tosses out this http://www.computerworlduk.com/tool… out of pipeline Mar 26 15:18
schestowitz The whole Red Hat-patent thing may have been exaggerated greatly Mar 26 15:18
schestowitz Glyn wrote: “The piece is dense and closely argued, drawing on Red Hat’s statements down the years to support its case. The central question it tries to address is whether Red Hat is truly helping to fight software patents in Europe, or whether it simply wants the patent system reformed to something more convenient for its own purposes as a big software house, while retaining the good graces of the free software movement.” Mar 26 15:18
schestowitz But see the responses in http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t… Mar 26 15:18
schestowitz Red Hat seems to be debunking it Mar 26 15:19
schestowitz But I’m not sure Mar 26 15:19
schestowitz Who is right and who is spinning? Mar 26 15:19
ushimitsudoki If you take Red Hat at their word – and I see no reason not to so far – they have a very reasonable stance: http://www.redhat.com/legal/pate… Mar 26 15:20
ushimitsudoki I’m sure Novell / MS / other trolls would love to smear Red Hat’s reputation Mar 26 15:20
schestowitz Yes, but would Digital Majority approve? Mar 26 15:21
schestowitz Also, there info there suggesting that the only ones trolling might be Red Hat rivals like imatrix. Mar 26 15:21
ushimitsudoki I don’t know Digital Majority, so I can’t speak to that end of it – are you familiar enough with them to judge their credibility and bias? Mar 26 15:22
schestowitz zoobab01: calls it a troll Mar 26 15:27
schestowitz But is he talking about Red Hat or the OP? Mar 26 15:27
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Omar87 Hi there? Mar 26 15:28
schestowitz Hi, Omar87 Mar 26 15:29
schestowitz Could you do me a favour and read a post with me to find typos? Mar 26 15:29
Omar87 schestowitz: Well, hello Roy! How’s it goin’? Mar 26 15:29
Omar87 Sure. Mar 26 15:29
schestowitz Omar87: it’s good, thanks. Mar 26 15:29
Omar87 got a link? Mar 26 15:29
schestowitz Omar87: http://boycottnovell.com/20… Mar 26 15:29
schestowitz Oops. I made a bad slug. No big deal (“mcirosoft”) Mar 26 15:30
*Omar87 has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 26 15:31
PetoKraus oh women Mar 26 15:35
PetoKraus can’t install a pdfcreator Mar 26 15:35
PetoKraus GAH Mar 26 15:35
PetoKraus i mean, it’s 2009, why is it hard to generate consistent documents which print the same output anywhere with using MS tools? Mar 26 15:36
*mib_9gyotn (i=52172ec6@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-467891dff4c1e643) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 26 15:36
MinceR because they’re MS tools Mar 26 15:36
MinceR (m-stools) Mar 26 15:36
*mib_9gyotn has quit (Client Quit) Mar 26 15:37
schestowitz Ballmer throws em Mar 26 15:43
MinceR i meant it in the ‘feces’ sense :> Mar 26 15:45
schestowitz This could prop up GNU/Linux gaming: Onlive remote gaming isn’t new  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n… > Mar 26 16:12
schestowitz It’s not new, it’s Windows-only for now, and I think it DOA TBH Mar 26 16:13
schestowitz For MinceR this would be a *sigh*er Apple now less reliable than cheap Chinese computers  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new… > Mar 26 16:14
MinceR :) Mar 26 16:14
schestowitz Tell this to balzac and balrog Mar 26 16:14
schestowitz The illusion (party line) that Apple had good hardware Mar 26 16:14
_Hicham_ there is no good hardware Mar 26 16:15
_Hicham_ everything is from south east asia Mar 26 16:15
_Hicham_ but asus is know to make good motherboards Mar 26 16:15
schestowitz If Microsoft pressures Windows users to pay, it’ll drive them away… http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/… Mar 26 16:15
trmanco _Hicham_, Asus is rock solid AFAIK Mar 26 16:16
trmanco at least mine is Mar 26 16:16
_Hicham_ no one pays for Windows in Morocco Mar 26 16:16
_Hicham_ trmanco : I have an Asus Laptop Mar 26 16:16
trmanco I have a mobo Mar 26 16:16
_Hicham_ Roy : Who uses Microsoft Products apart Windows? Mar 26 16:17
trmanco Microsoft Mar 26 16:18
_Hicham_ people seems to use Windows just for drivers Mar 26 16:18
trmanco Windows sucks on drivers Mar 26 16:18
_Hicham_ it is at least supported by vendors Mar 26 16:18
trmanco 3rd parties have to make drivers for it Mar 26 16:18
_Hicham_ that is what I said Mar 26 16:18
trmanco I would just love to see if it wasn’t Mar 26 16:18
schestowitz Do the Secret Bush Memos Amount to Treason? Top Constitutional Scholar Says Yes < http://www.alternet.org/rights/133273/… > Mar 26 16:18
trmanco _Hicham_, I was writing, you were faster Mar 26 16:19
_Hicham_ the Linux perspective must be appealing to vendors Mar 26 16:19
trmanco brb Mar 26 16:19
_Hicham_ but the problem is open sourcing the drivers again Mar 26 16:20
_Hicham_ no big hardware vendors would like to open source its drivers Mar 26 16:21
_Hicham_ Kaspersky Internet Security is getting tougher and tougher to crack Mar 26 16:22
_Hicham_ it blacklist all of the popular keys in the Internet Mar 26 16:22
MinceR wow…asus is reliable now? Mar 26 16:26
_Hicham_ MinceR : do u doubt? Mar 26 16:27
MinceR i do Mar 26 16:28
MinceR afaik it didn’t have such a reputation Mar 26 16:28
_Hicham_ it is the first in the motherboards market for more than a decade Mar 26 16:29
_Hicham_ Plus, it is the first to see the future in netbooks Mar 26 16:29
schestowitz asus used to be crap Mar 26 16:33
schestowitz I remembered their hardware going AWOL Mar 26 16:33
schestowitz But that was around 2002 Mar 26 16:33
_Hicham_ what kind of hardware? Mar 26 16:33
schestowitz lapto Mar 26 16:33
_Hicham_ on this I agree Mar 26 16:34
_Hicham_ but it was the start Mar 26 16:34
schestowitz Lies, damn lies, and fun graphs to watch: http://linuxsoftwareblog.com/blog/?p=115 Mar 26 16:34
_Hicham_ I am talking about motherboards Mar 26 16:34
schestowitz Yes, but overal.. Mar 26 16:35
_Hicham_ why do u think these graphs are lies? Mar 26 16:35
_Hicham_ the search keyword “ubuntu” is widely used Mar 26 16:36
_Hicham_ and it is clear Mar 26 16:36
_Hicham_ Ubuntu is the most known Linux Distro Mar 26 16:37
_Hicham_ followed by fedora Mar 26 16:37
_Hicham_ then OpenSuse Mar 26 16:37
_Hicham_ sometimes OpenSuse is second since it more user friendly than fedora Mar 26 16:37
_Hicham_ with its Yast Mar 26 16:38
schestowitz I didn’t say it was a lie Mar 26 16:38
schestowitz But it just don’t say what people sometimes want it to Mar 26 16:38
schestowitz Microsoft is totally out of *touch* with market needs in downturn (MSBBC ad): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/t… Mar 26 16:39
schestowitz Wii (Nintendo) is claimed to have sold 50 million units now. PS2 was about 120 million. Microsoft and Sony lose $billions. Mar 26 16:41
schestowitz twitter doesn’t process search queries. Must be server load Mar 26 16:47
trmanco schestowitz, twitter has it’s own search engine Mar 26 16:55
trmanco http://search.twitter.com/ Mar 26 16:55
schestowitz From an E-mail I got this morning (close to MS): “The best I can say for Charles is that no one knew what Bill Gates would become when Microsoft was just starting.  Actually, some people knew, Gates was a mean selfish SOB when he was a teenager, based on what I’ve heard.” Mar 26 16:57
trmanco “Gates was a mean selfish SOB when he was a teenager” he is more than just that Mar 26 16:58
schestowitz Pivotal ruling expected next week in lawsuit over Windows Vista < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/P… > Mar 26 16:58
schestowitz trmanco: yes, but that’s heard from people close to him Mar 26 16:59
schestowitz Other stories I read from Joel Spolsky and others. Mar 26 16:59
schestowitz Moody, crabby person… but he’s ‘buying’ press Mar 26 16:59
schestowitz MS ‘damage control’ for looting the public:  Public officials defend stimulus money for ‘Bridge to Microsoft’ < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft… > Mar 26 16:59
schestowitz Those who sell GNU/Linux go up: http://blogs.computerworld.com/how_to_make… (How to make a half-a-billion bucks with Linux) Mar 26 17:00
schestowitz Wikileaks mentioned us: http://twitter.com/wikileaks/sta… Mar 26 17:04
trmanco schestowitz, it’s good to have a Twitter account :-P Mar 26 17:06
schestowitz Does no harm Mar 26 17:06
trmanco they have a nice BG btw Mar 26 17:06
schestowitz Cant’ change my bg image Mar 26 17:06
schestowitz Beat me to it Mar 26 17:06
trmanco twitter slow as hell right now Mar 26 17:07
schestowitz There are errors too Mar 26 17:07
trmanco Mar 26 17:08
schestowitz Indian PC Market Down More Than 20 Percent < http://www.pcworld.com/article/161991/ind… > Mar 26 17:10
trmanco my BG image is my terminal Mar 26 17:10
schestowitz Red Hat (RHT) NewsBite – RHT Rises on Q4 Profit < http://www.marketintelligencecen… > Mar 26 17:10
schestowitz trmanco: how do you upload an image? Mar 26 17:11
schestowitz I don’t have an option. I tried Firefox too Mar 26 17:11
trmanco somewhere in the theme settings Mar 26 17:11
schestowitz They give 10 options Mar 26 17:11
trmanco schestowitz, https://twitter.com/account/pro… Mar 26 17:11
schestowitz And it gives error Mar 26 17:11
trmanco change background image Mar 26 17:11
trmanco well, if it gives an error it’s now your fault Mar 26 17:12
schestowitz Growing pains Mar 26 17:12
schestowitz it seems like people move to m-blogging from blogs and things like Digg. I’m not sure. Mar 26 17:12
trmanco Digg is getting slow too Mar 26 17:13
trmanco must be the economic crisis Mar 26 17:13
trmanco no money to buy new servers :-P Mar 26 17:13
schestowitz Lots of good news for RHt today Mar 26 17:14
schestowitz trmanco: Digg works badly Mar 26 17:14
schestowitz I sometimes open the same URL 5 time to ensure the page is loaded Mar 26 17:14
schestowitz Because I have many friends it take loads of CPU Mar 26 17:14
schestowitz Pages used to take like 15 seconds to open (Each!) Mar 26 17:14
trmanco I’ve heard they are making a change to a new DC Mar 26 17:14
schestowitz Now they time out sometimes Mar 26 17:15
schestowitz trmanco: well, they might as well. Mar 26 17:15
schestowitz They lose users Mar 26 17:15
schestowitz Those whose accounts devours many queries Mar 26 17:15
trmanco yeah, I’ve used Digg more before Mar 26 17:15
schestowitz Ah! Mar 26 17:15
schestowitz Stupid Twitter Mar 26 17:15
schestowitz JavaScript Mar 26 17:15
schestowitz That’s why I couldn’t upload Mar 26 17:15
trmanco yeah, and lots of it Mar 26 17:15
schestowitz I wonder how much it ‘costs’ to have AdBlock and NoScript Mar 26 17:17
schestowitz Sometimes they can take up time and support when trying to realise why something does not work Mar 26 17:17
schestowitz my new twitter bg is the mandriva desktop Mar 26 17:18
*trmanco looks Mar 26 17:19
trmanco hehe :-P Mar 26 17:20
_Hicham_ Roy loves Mandriva Mar 26 17:21
trmanco I’ve never tried it Mar 26 17:22
_Hicham_ what do u use trmanco? Mar 26 17:22
trmanco Ubuntu Mar 26 17:22
trmanco No, I’m not really a newbie Mar 26 17:22
trmanco if that is what you’re thinking Mar 26 17:23
_Hicham_ Sorry, your platform is not supported. Mar 26 17:23
trmanco ! Mar 26 17:23
_Hicham_ that is what i got from adobe shockwave Mar 26 17:23
trmanco where? Mar 26 17:23
*schestowitz has ubuntu on 3 machines Mar 26 17:24
_Hicham_ http://get.adobe.com/shockwave/ Mar 26 17:24
_Hicham_ no shockwave on Linux Mar 26 17:24
_Hicham_ any idea? Mar 26 17:24
trmanco _Hicham_, yeah, no shockwave Mar 26 17:24
_Hicham_ fucking adobe with its fucking tech Mar 26 17:25
_Hicham_ one of the problems is the evil MFC Mar 26 17:25
schestowitz zoobab01: Meilensteine: Gewonnener Kampf gegen Softwarepatente http://diepresse.com/home/politik/e… Mar 26 17:25
_Hicham_ it shouldn’t be used on large projects Mar 26 17:25
schestowitz sw patents heating up in the EU Mar 26 17:26
schestowitz _Hicham_: what are the laws in Morocco re: sw patents? Mar 26 17:26
_Hicham_ Morocco is fine Mar 26 17:27
_Hicham_ piracy is everywhere Mar 26 17:27
_Hicham_ almost no one pays a dime to MS Mar 26 17:27
_Hicham_ I think I am the only one with some ethics concerning software Mar 26 17:28
_Hicham_ everyone buys pirated software Mar 26 17:28
_Hicham_ I feel humiliated when I have to boot into Windows Mar 26 17:28
_Hicham_ even Professors gave us pirated software Mar 26 17:28
schestowitz Central Asia’s cold war over heat < http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archiv… > Mar 26 17:29
schestowitz _Hicham_: you mean counterfeiting, not piracy Mar 26 17:29
-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi again. One of our hubs had connectivity issues causing some servers and users to be unable to connect to the network, resulting in a rather noisy set of splits. The issue has been resolved now and we believe there should be no further interruptions. Thanks! Mar 26 17:29
schestowitz _Hicham_: MS makes money in very few countries Mar 26 17:29
schestowitz The rest it just uses for network effect Mar 26 17:29
schestowitz _Hicham_: that’s OK if professors do that. Microsoft is endorsing it where it /NEEDS/ counterfeiting. It admits this publicly. Mar 26 17:30
schestowitz If you might move elsewhere, they’ll give it away Mar 26 17:30
schestowitz Search BN for “under no circumstance lose to Linux” Mar 26 17:30
schestowitz Orlando Ayala anti-Linux bully Mar 26 17:31
schestowitz Google Docs Gets a Drawing Program < http://blogoscoped.com/archiv… >. Ballmer’s FUD is running thin. Mar 26 17:31
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