IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 10th, 2008

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-09-11 10:13:33 UTC
Modified: 2008-09-11 10:13:33 UTC

schestowitz	They knew what they had done.	Sep 09 22:15
schestowitz	(the upper management)	Sep 09 22:15
schestowitz	Novell /INITIATED/ this deal.	Sep 09 22:15
benJIman	Interpret it how you will. In my experience incompetence is more likely than malice.	Sep 09 22:15
benJIman	I'm not sure they initiated the patent aspect though.	Sep 09 22:16
MinceR	if it's a selfish deal, they're still stupid -- they're blatantly harming the community that produces most of the value their own customers use	Sep 09 22:16
MinceR	it's not a good business strategy to give your own customers the finger in the hope of getting money from one of your biggest and most devious competitors.	Sep 09 22:17
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schestowitz	http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_stoc... : London Stock Exchange suffers .NET Crash	Sep 09 22:47
schestowitz	"	Sep 09 22:47
schestowitz	On top of this runs the TradElec software itself. This is a custom set of C# and .NET programs, which was created by Microsoft and Accenture, the global consulting firm. Its back-end databases, believe it or not, run on Microsoft SQL Server 2000. The goal was to maintain sub-ten millisecond response times. In short, it's meant to be a real-time system. "	Sep 09 22:47
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tessier_	So do we know what caused the crash yet?	Sep 09 22:50
tessier_	Was it Dot Not?	Sep 09 22:50
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tessier_	schestowitz: It seems he has no idea what caused the problem either.	Sep 09 22:55
schestowitz	http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/09/lo...	Sep 09 22:57
schestowitz	"In June last year the LSE switched from its 10-year-old Sets system in favour of a new platform called TradElect, which runs on Microsoft software."	Sep 09 22:57
schestowitz	1 year, two days of failures. Not bad, eh? What's that? Like 99% uptime? For a stock market?	Sep 09 22:57
tessier_	USDOJ shopping for a lawyer for google anti-trust suit? /.	Sep 09 23:01
tessier_	What has google done to maintain a monopoly?	Sep 09 23:01
tessier_	I will be seriously pissed if they go after google but don't go after MS	Sep 09 23:01
tessier_	Two days of failures? Did they have another outage prior to the most recent 6 hour outage?	Sep 09 23:01
schestowitz	It's Microsoft who's behind this.	Sep 09 23:03
schestowitz	They use a variety of proxies to stir things up. Let me find an example...	Sep 09 23:03
schestowitz	It's a case of an abusive corrupt monopoly using its abusive corrupt nature to accuse others of being dangerous: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/lawme...	Sep 09 23:04
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schestowitz	http://www.osnews.com/story/20266/Patent...	Sep 09 23:14
schestowitz	http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn... It has just occurred to me that IBM and Lenovo recently started talking about Open Client or whatever they call that Red Hat/Ubuntu/SUSE Lotus combo they announced in LinuxWorld. Lenovo admitted that it spoke to IBM about it, so it could be related.	Sep 09 23:24
MinceR	http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroy...	Sep 09 23:32
schestowitz	Heh. Try it with JS disabled (me by default).	Sep 09 23:33
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schestowitz	Check out the page source: "if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund"	Sep 09 23:35
MinceR	:)	Sep 09 23:35
schestowitz	yawn	Sep 09 23:49
*schestowitz is away: Passed out		Sep 09 23:49
MinceR	http://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew/away_msgs.html	Sep 09 23:50
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PeterKraus	:D	Sep 10 01:30
PeterKraus	it always make me giggle	Sep 10 01:30
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ZiggyFish	hey	Sep 10 02:35
ZiggyFish	is anyone here	Sep 10 02:37
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neighborlee	ZiggyFish, yup ;)	Sep 10 04:28
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schestowitz	http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...	Sep 10 07:21
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schestowitz	This one looks unlikely to be a Microsoft plant: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/0...	Sep 10 07:44
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schestowitz	Paul Allen is still investing money in Microsofters: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/v...	Sep 10 09:32
schestowitz	And NComputing has been stung by a former Microsoft execs, which might affect its Linux choice: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/sen...	Sep 10 09:32
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PetoKraus	oh, so you've banned benjiman yesterday?	Sep 10 09:58
PetoKraus	not nice	Sep 10 09:58
schestowitz	Huh??	Sep 10 09:59
schestowitz	That must be [H]omer	Sep 10 09:59
schestowitz	I'll remove the ban.	Sep 10 09:59
schestowitz removes ban on !*@benjiweber.co.uk		Sep 10 09:59
schestowitz	Financial Times headline (pure example of brainwash): "Microsoft’s human side - Financial Times" A friend says: "My cynical side says that their outsourced marketing firms are running these headlines to distract from financial troubles..."	Sep 10 10:19
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MinceR	lol	Sep 10 10:25
PetoKraus	:D	Sep 10 10:25
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schestowitz	How can I review the kicklist? I didn't set this. it was [H]omer.	Sep 10 10:28
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MinceR	/cs help akick	Sep 10 10:34
MinceR	(/cs akick #boycottnovell list)	Sep 10 10:35
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solis	whut ?	Sep 10 11:37
solis	why are we boycotting novell ? ... i mean don tget me wrong i love a good boycott	Sep 10 11:38
solis	do you guys have any sources for me r?	Sep 10 11:38
solis	good thing you guys dont boycott vista ... since well i like it so much it would be hard for me to join you on your boycott quest	Sep 10 11:44
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MinceR	solis: long story short, novell was among the first to support microsoft's patent extortion racket/FUD campaign against linux with a deal with microsoft	Sep 10 12:02
MinceR	solis: see http://boycottnovell.com/ for details	Sep 10 12:03
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solis	ican see novell being a bit forced ... why not boycott microsoft instead	Sep 10 13:19
schestowitz	They converge.	Sep 10 13:20
schestowitz	BoycottNovell addresses both issues.	Sep 10 13:20
MinceR	we've been boycotting m$ for a long time already ;)	Sep 10 13:21
solis	who isnt ?	Sep 10 13:30
MinceR	unfortunately some people aren't	Sep 10 13:30
solis	hmmm ... yhea and it is hard	Sep 10 13:31
solis	still vista has some improvements	Sep 10 13:32
MinceR	and many more things where it's worse than its predecessors	Sep 10 13:34
schestowitz	Products and corporate behaviour are separate.	Sep 10 13:34
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solis	why ?	Sep 10 13:34
schestowitz	Mixing the two is dangerous. It's like saying "Microsoft is good" rather than "Microsoft Office is good"	Sep 10 13:34
schestowitz	The remarks from Jim Zemlin came under fire for this reasons.	Sep 10 13:34
schestowitz	*reason	Sep 10 13:34
MinceR	microsoft makes them easy to mix	Sep 10 13:34
MinceR	since they behave in an evil way _and_ make shoddy products	Sep 10 13:35
solis	microsoft office sucks :S	Sep 10 13:35
schestowitz	MinceR: many people never get the opportunity to review other products.	Sep 10 13:35
MinceR	i know	Sep 10 13:35
schestowitz	By restricting consumer choice people come to assume that PCs crash and get virii [sic] as a matter of nature.	Sep 10 13:35
solis	virii is bad latin	Sep 10 13:36
solis	its one virus 2 virus	Sep 10 13:36
solis	but back to the boycott ... didnt "we" create there monopoly and the bad politics commin with it by all mindlessly using ms-dos and windows ?	Sep 10 13:38
solis	more important why would ms care about us ? (the hand full in here)	Sep 10 13:39
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twitter	:) good morning.	Sep 10 13:40
schestowitz	solis: information is all we can do.	Sep 10 13:40
schestowitz	They have money with which they corrupt politicians and bribe companies (yes, there's evidnece).	Sep 10 13:40
twitter	I liked the toxic influence article from today and the Lenovo from yesterday.	Sep 10 13:41
schestowitz	To counter such fire you can't use fire (bribe). The Linux Foundation can try this, which does a lot of harm through hypocrisy.	Sep 10 13:41
schestowitz	it's better to combat this by bringing to light what is happening.	Sep 10 13:41
schestowitz	Lenovo was today.	Sep 10 13:42
schestowitz	I'm writing another one about VMware at the moment.	Sep 10 13:42
solis	whats wrong with lenovo ?	Sep 10 13:42
solis	i like lenovo so far ... there cheap hq en .... well they just run	Sep 10 13:43
schestowitz	Lenovo is close to Novell/Mirosoft.	Sep 10 13:44
schestowitz	Which is hardly surprising because IBM too endorsed the deal. IBM is not necessarily the good guy here.	Sep 10 13:44
solis	lenovo is ibm	Sep 10 13:44
twitter	no, lenovo bought thinkpad.	Sep 10 13:45
twitter	they are a Chinese company	Sep 10 13:45
twitter	The destruction of GNU/Linux friendly Thinkpads would be a huge M$ win.	Sep 10 13:46
schestowitz	All the business goes to China, eh? Except GM.	Sep 10 13:46
solis	lenovo bought the complete ibm hardware devision	Sep 10 13:48
solis	and what does gnu/linux friendly mean any way ?	Sep 10 13:48
schestowitz	Drivers. Choice of Linux-compatible components.	Sep 10 13:48
schestowitz	I hear that Microsoft broke the law in this regards.	Sep 10 13:48
schestowitz	*regard	Sep 10 13:48
solis	lenovo offers to send laptops and computers free from any os ... thats more linux friendly than any other laptop dropper	Sep 10 13:49
schestowitz	On the one hand, it used NDA to create Linux-hostile hardware that nobody could write drivers for.	Sep 10 13:49
solis	dell and the likes dont do that they all seel including windows	Sep 10 13:49
solis	hmm nda	Sep 10 13:49
schestowitz	I also read about Microsoft encouraging the use and dissemination of Linux-hostile components through pricing and deals.	Sep 10 13:49
schestowitz	solis: Lenovo no longer does this.	Sep 10 13:50
schestowitz	It used to offer FreeDOS machines, but not anymore.	Sep 10 13:50
schestowitz	Not to mention the fact that they overchanged for these.	Sep 10 13:50
solis	i just orderd some new machines excluding windows and they will ship them today :S	Sep 10 13:50
schestowitz	The French activists are probably the best chance against this. They already slam H-P for forcing people to buy Windows along with hardware.	Sep 10 13:50
solis	would have been cool to get them with freedos	Sep 10 13:50
schestowitz	It reminds me of tying of "music industty" tax to everything-storage.	Sep 10 13:51
solis	maybe i can order os free because i am near france :S	Sep 10 13:51
schestowitz	Microsoft can tell corruptible politicians that "piracy" hurts it so much, so it's entitled to "hardware tax"	Sep 10 13:51
schestowitz	solis: yes, probably	Sep 10 13:52
schestowitz	It has become risky in France to force people to buy Windows.	Sep 10 13:52
schestowitz	Here is the UK we have a clown cherishing everything Microsoft. Just watch LSE for a recent demo.	Sep 10 13:52
solis	microsoft has the biggest market share because of the piracy ... if all pirated copies of windows are pulled off the market microsoft would lose that	Sep 10 13:52
schestowitz	A system worked perfectly fine for ages. A year ago they switched over to an overpriced .NET rubbishware and the system has already collapsed twice.	Sep 10 13:53
schestowitz	All just so that Microsoft can have an "Anti-Linux" case study (with false 'Facts')	Sep 10 13:53
solis	according to microsoft at least 48% of all pc's running windows run pirated versions	Sep 10 13:53
schestowitz	solis: yes, Microsoft admits that it owes its 'success' and continues ubiquity to 'piracy'	Sep 10 13:53
solis	.net sucks no one will argue with that :D	Sep 10 13:53
schestowitz	It bemoans it only when it needs excuses (e.g. profits fall).	Sep 10 13:54
solis	thats why they dont work to hard to prevent pirating ;)	Sep 10 13:54
schestowitz	It's a lot more than 48%	Sep 10 13:54
solis	i know	Sep 10 13:54
solis	i just couldnt find any good source so i got stuck at 48%	Sep 10 13:54
schestowitz	Maybe even 80%. That would not surprise me. In developing countries Microsoft risks losing if it charges for Linux.	Sep 10 13:54
schestowitz	Bill Gates (2007): "It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not."	Sep 10 13:55
solis	80% is a bit high i guess ..., but over half i do belive since microsoft stated that themselfs	Sep 10 13:55
schestowitz	That figure may also explains why Microsoft has financial issues that it hides.	Sep 10 13:55
schestowitz	The US in general is in deep debt, but I don't know how Microsoft fits into this.	Sep 10 13:56
solis	lol	Sep 10 13:56
solis	microsoft has no money its all from shareholders	Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz	See http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html when you have thr time.	Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz	solis: yes.	Sep 10 13:56
solis	if they pull back there money there is no more microsoft	Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz	If they can get enough money pulled in, they can use it like a pyramid scheme	Sep 10 13:56
solis	in other words they dont need profits they just need good pr	Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz	They liquidate using the Gates Fundation [sic]	Sep 10 13:56
schestowitz	solis: yes, and they intimidate people who say the truth.	Sep 10 13:57
solis	i am not intimidated ... and well ... let them try :P	Sep 10 13:57
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...	Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz	That was /before/ the bubble.	Sep 10 13:58
solis	we should get the micheal moore to make a documentary about it	Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz	Well, if he bothers.	Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz	Political issues are more important.	Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz	They cost lives.	Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz	Frhrenheir 9/11 for example related to death of many Iraqui civilians.	Sep 10 13:58
schestowitz	Sicko is about the death of people in the US due to a bad and corrupt system	Sep 10 13:59
schestowitz	You can find out about corruption around dietary recommendation in this talk from Prof. Lessig: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netro...	Sep 10 13:59
solis	this is politics ... it affects how we work and stuff world wide ...	Sep 10 14:00
schestowitz	Mind you, 'piracy' of Office will be higher than Windows because of preloads.	Sep 10 14:00
schestowitz	(many typos above BTW.... Fahrenheit for instance)	Sep 10 14:00
solis	hmm might be ... though i dont know any one that hacks the preinstall most of them just down a torrent	Sep 10 14:00
twitter	What do you know about Return Path?	Sep 10 14:01
twitter	My ISP uses them and they just blocked a mail list I'm on.	Sep 10 14:02
solis	:s	Sep 10 14:02
solis	can they block mail ??	Sep 10 14:02
solis	sue them and get rich !!	Sep 10 14:02
twitter	It reminds me of this http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091307Z.shtml	Sep 10 14:03
twitter	and, of course, M$ will be exploiting it to disrupt GNU/Linux mail lists.	Sep 10 14:03
solis	again sue them and get rich	Sep 10 14:03
solis	freedom of spaech and information right ?	Sep 10 14:04
solis	who is m$ to stop that ?	Sep 10 14:04
schestowitz	Return Path?	Sep 10 14:04
solis	dude ... i really dropped me spelling	Sep 10 14:04
schestowitz	I thought you said rPath (Novell puppet)	Sep 10 14:04
twitter	http://sendersupport.senderscore.net/	Sep 10 14:04
twitter	http://www.returnpath.net/	Sep 10 14:05
schestowitz	.NET	Sep 10 14:05
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schestowitz	It runs on a *NIX server though. Netcraft masks it.	Sep 10 14:06
twitter	This is a PR friendly way to censor email.	Sep 10 14:07
MinceR	lol rPath	Sep 10 14:07
MinceR	the only distro i've ever seen that ships with a package manager that destroys itself.	Sep 10 14:07
twitter	It's about extending corporate control to personal conversations.	Sep 10 14:08
twitter	and stomping out grass roots movements.	Sep 10 14:08
twitter	they do it in the name of spam filtering.	Sep 10 14:08
twitter	If Return Path is running .NET, it is surely a M$ puppet.	Sep 10 14:09
zoobab	rpath is where Peter Hanvin works?	Sep 10 14:10
solis	hmm imma go repair some mssql 2k5 server so i wont be back before like ... late :D	Sep 10 14:11
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schestowitz	twitter: could it be a concidence?	Sep 10 14:18
schestowitz	*coincidence . I mean, it's easy to jump the gun.	Sep 10 14:18
schestowitz	You'd need to do a little experiment and then present what you find.	Sep 10 14:18
schestowitz	Like vista error log.	Sep 10 14:18
schestowitz	twitter: I don't think it runs .NET. I was referring to the domain name of the homepage. Very few (if any) among the filtering/security appliances run /anything/ Microsoft.. BSD and Linux are popular.	Sep 10 14:19
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Eruaran	hi	Sep 10 14:20
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schestowitz	zoobab: is rPath a patent felon. I seem to recall something.	Sep 10 14:20
schestowitz	hi, Eruaran.	Sep 10 14:20
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Eruaran	hello schestowitz	Sep 10 14:20
MinceR	schestowitz: link please	Sep 10 14:20
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Eruaran	Is anyone able to get GNU/Linux Eee's anymore ?	Sep 10 14:21
Eruaran	We had a customer who wanted a 901 with Linux but we couldn't get one	Sep 10 14:22
Eruaran	The major supplier is only offering XP	Sep 10 14:22
schestowitz	MinceR: link to what?	Sep 10 14:24
schestowitz	Eruaran: let me find a post for you.	Sep 10 14:24
Eruaran	Can get Linux on a 900 Celeron but not a 901 Atom	Sep 10 14:24
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08...	Sep 10 14:24
twitter	Yeah, it could be coincidence but there's no way that I can find out on my own. It takes a collection of incidents to make a pattern.	Sep 10 14:24
schestowitz	Since then, however, it has been confirmed that there is an Atom shortage. Supply/demand rules are still not obeyed though.	Sep 10 14:25
twitter	Even if they blocked all of my lists, I'm still one person.	Sep 10 14:25
schestowitz	Well, twitter, Microsoft manipulates its search results to suit business agenda, so... :-)	Sep 10 14:26
Eruaran	We have had requests for both versions, but only one is made available.	Sep 10 14:26
schestowitz	In Australia?	Sep 10 14:27
schestowitz	There was some funny ASUS business in Australia a while back (APCMag and ITWire reported)	Sep 10 14:27
schestowitz	They charged more for Linux and later 'corrected' it. Supply was another issue, IIRC.	Sep 10 14:28
twitter	LOL. Supply and the cost of stocking XP models no one wants.	Sep 10 14:28
Eruaran	This is from within our company who is partners with Acer: Gartner did a market study fo Acer and told Acer that Asus was having "a lot of trouble" with Linux and it isn't working for them so they are getting out of it. I did note to our directors that Gartners biggest client is Microsoft but only a couple of people were listening.	Sep 10 14:28
MinceR	schestowitz: rPath's patent felony	Sep 10 14:29
schestowitz	of course.	Sep 10 14:29
schestowitz	Gartner is a mouth piece.	Sep 10 14:29
twitter	I thought Acer just bet big time on GNU/Linux..	Sep 10 14:30
schestowitz	"Linux is a passing fad of the day"	Sep 10 14:30
schestowitz	SOmething along those lines... Gartner around 1999	Sep 10 14:30
schestowitz	ASUS said it is "tied up with Microsoft"	Sep 10 14:30
schestowitz	See the URL above. Microsoft is pressuring them	Sep 10 14:30
twitter	http://mobile.slashdot.org/article....	Sep 10 14:31
Eruaran	I'm not sure what Acer is up to really	Sep 10 14:31
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twitter	"We have shifted towards Linux because of Microsoft," he said. "Microsoft has a lot of power and it is going to be difficult, but we will be working hard to develop the Linux market."	Sep 10 14:32
Eruaran	I hope they're telling the truth	Sep 10 14:32
Eruaran	Becuase the pressuire within our company not to promote Linux came from Gartner - through Acer	Sep 10 14:33
Eruaran	Acer was passing this on and not adding any caveats about Gartners 'analysis'	Sep 10 14:34
schestowitz	Eruaran: ASUS has a problem with Mcirosogft, not Linux	Sep 10 14:34
Eruaran	well... they could have picked a better distro	Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz	It's because Microsoft has a problem with Linux. it's being adopted on low-cost laptops, so Microspft pffers Windows for as little as $18 a piece.	Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz	Eruaran: they negotiated with Debian at one later point.	Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz	Xandros is also Microsoft'taited'	Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz	*tainted	Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz	Either way, Gartner's intervention is interesting in its own right.	Sep 10 14:35
schestowitz	Did the boss contact Gartner or did they approach the boxx?	Sep 10 14:36
schestowitz	*boss	Sep 10 14:36
Eruaran	We received this through our partnership with Acer	Sep 10 14:36
Eruaran	Market analysis so we could assess our position in the market	Sep 10 14:37
schestowitz	Oops/	Sep 10 14:37
schestowitz	I mixed up ASUS and Acer in some places.	Sep 10 14:37
Eruaran	Most of it was useful information... kind of like rat poison is something like 99% harmless.	Sep 10 14:37
schestowitz	it's worth writing about this later.	Sep 10 14:38
*Songjun (n=limsongj@cpc2-clif6-0-0-cust860.nott.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell		Sep 10 14:38
*Songjun slaps Songjun around a bit with a large trout		Sep 10 14:39
Eruaran	We can and do pre-install GNU/Linux on desktop PC's for customers.	Sep 10 14:39
Eruaran	But its impossible to get a notebook without Vista.	Sep 10 14:40
Songjun	hi there	Sep 10 14:40
Songjun	is this the usual number of chatters in the channel?	Sep 10 14:40
Eruaran	You can get Vista, or XP, or Vista & XP.	Sep 10 14:40
Eruaran	The situation is ridiculous.	Sep 10 14:41
schestowitz	Hi, Songjun.	Sep 10 14:41
Songjun	hey schestowitz	Sep 10 14:41
_Doug	ot: Stephen Norris Capital Partners ("SNCP") involved in 'restructuring' deal with SCO \| Robert Kasten is on the board of Norris-Robbins \| Robert Kasten is also a board member of the Alexis-de-Tocqueville \| "The Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, who as you may recall admitted it gets funding from Microsoft, has put out a press release"	Sep 10 14:41
Eruaran	There's a worm going around that installs itself on people's USB keys.	Sep 10 14:41
_Doug	http://www.groklaw.net/article.php...	Sep 10 14:41
schestowitz	_Doug: where did you find this?	Sep 10 14:41
schestowitz	Oh	Sep 10 14:41
Eruaran	We remove this on a beautiful GNU/Linux system with a glorious looking KDE 4.1.1 desktop.	Sep 10 14:41
Songjun	i was just wondering just how severe the novell/microsoft deal has had on opensuse	Sep 10 14:42
Songjun	especially on the development side	Sep 10 14:42
_Doug	http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...	Sep 10 14:42
schestowitz	Eruaran: Microsoft has gone far to ensure Vista is forced upon people.	Sep 10 14:42
Eruaran	And when people ask 'wont that system get the virus ?'	Sep 10 14:42
schestowitz	That's sad, but it's not something to report about.	Sep 10 14:42
Eruaran	We say, 'No, this is Linux'	Sep 10 14:42
_Doug	Eruaran: Windows or Apple or Linux 'virus' ? - it's so 1978 again -- only it used to be floppies .. :)	Sep 10 14:43
Eruaran	Many average folks simply don't comprehend that they can use a different operating system.	Sep 10 14:43
schestowitz	_Doug: I have something you probably want to see.	Sep 10 14:43
schestowitz	And inform GL about.	Sep 10 14:43
_Doug	OK, msg me privetly	Sep 10 14:44
schestowitz	See Carlyle Group here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/2...	Sep 10 14:44
schestowitz	twitter found out some stuff about it.	Sep 10 14:44
schestowitz	Norris.	Sep 10 14:44
Eruaran	I find it so discouraging sometimes.	Sep 10 14:44
schestowitz	Songjun: opensuse shares the same code as most distros, so it's not affected on an individual basis.	Sep 10 14:45
Eruaran	Feel like quitting the industry but I don't know what else I'd do.	Sep 10 14:45
schestowitz	In other words, it's almost identical to other distros, which don't have the same burden (Microsoft/Novell)	Sep 10 14:45
schestowitz	BTW, benjamin, it's [H]omer who set a ban overnight. I don't know how to remove it properly. When I do, it's being restored .	Sep 10 14:45
schestowitz	Eruaran: Microsoft is falling, but it's gradual.	Sep 10 14:46
Eruaran	We've had operating systems that don't have to reboot after updating files or installing software since Bill Gates was still in college. And yet people are still using this weak and miserable operating system.	Sep 10 14:46
schestowitz	They won't last for long, but it's the Apple crowd that might become an issue.	Sep 10 14:46
schestowitz	Well, gates had a lot of money and connection and no ethics at all.	Sep 10 14:47
schestowitz	As Intel demonstrates, it's usually the bad (corrupt) people that 'win'	Sep 10 14:47
schestowitz	Or as one band put it, "nice guys finish last".	Sep 10 14:47
MinceR	155559 < Songjun> i was just wondering just how severe the novell/microsoft deal has had on opensuse	Sep 10 14:48
Eruaran	I had a guy recently who claimed in front of me that if you visit a bunch of bad websites with Linux you'll get viruses just like you do with Windows. I asked him how much money he was willing to place on that bet. He backed down when he saw I was serious.	Sep 10 14:48
MinceR	if benJIman is any indication, it has turned those people into microsoft shills too :>	Sep 10 14:48
schestowitz	Eruaran: RMS stayed in MIT because he "refused to live like this". That is, according to him, being enslaved to binary Gods is something that he needed to fight.	Sep 10 14:49
Eruaran	nod	Sep 10 14:51
Songjun	schestowitz: hmm.. however i'm sure that with this deal, usership of the opensuse distro will start to fall.. and thus might affect the number of people who might want to contribute to opensuse	Sep 10 14:51
schestowitz	RMS did something useful with his life. He created a whole system (or helped in creating it) that everyone even in poor countries can use for free (also libre)	Sep 10 14:51
Eruaran	There are a few good universities here in Australia	Sep 10 14:51
Eruaran	RMIT, La Trobe	Sep 10 14:52
schestowitz	I've been tied to UoM even though I finished all my 'real work' like 3 years ago.	Sep 10 14:52
Eruaran	There is one university that is a running joke though	Sep 10 14:52
Eruaran	And that is Deakin University	Sep 10 14:52
schestowitz	I' shocked that I'm still around to hang around here, use the clusters for massive experiments, etc.	Sep 10 14:52
_Doug	Eruaran: go into teaching, or start your own small company, it's a lot more satisfying .. that beign micro-managed by a total fucking idiot !	Sep 10 14:53
Eruaran	Otherwise known as M$-Deakin	Sep 10 14:53
Songjun	mincer : haha :P why, has he been promoting the wonders of microsoft?	Sep 10 14:53
Songjun	i'm still a little ignorant on this issue though	Sep 10 14:53
schestowitz	Microsoft creates 'jobs': virus cleaners.	Sep 10 14:53
Songjun	but to have a website dedicated to boycotting novell.. means its quite serious :P	Sep 10 14:53
schestowitz	All bow to 'Makers of Jobs'	Sep 10 14:53
Songjun	lol	Sep 10 14:53
Eruaran	It is satisfying though to get a customer to switch	Sep 10 14:54
MinceR	Songjun: he was mostly defending novell and their role in microsoft's patent racket/FUD campaign.	Sep 10 14:54
Eruaran	And see that status quo broken	Sep 10 14:54
Songjun	mincer : hmm icic, did you guys use to contribute to the opensuse distro before this ?	Sep 10 14:55
Eruaran	I figure every single happy GNU/Linux user I have a part in creating... three of their friends will hear about it.	Sep 10 14:55
MinceR	i never did	Sep 10 14:55
MinceR	i never liked suse	Sep 10 14:55
Songjun	lol!	Sep 10 14:56
Songjun	icic	Sep 10 14:56
MinceR	it has always had a bad reputation and it was confirmed when a friend had me install it for him	Sep 10 14:56
MinceR	it has the suckiest installer i've ever seen, especially the netinstall part	Sep 10 14:56
Songjun	you know of any contributors who packed and left just cause ?	Sep 10 14:56
MinceR	and it ran some program that ruined keyboard input on x	Sep 10 14:56
MinceR	(my friend hunted that down eventually)	Sep 10 14:56
Eruaran	I always fel that Suse was an "almost there" distro, that always seemed promising but never seemed to be "finished".	Sep 10 14:57
schestowitz	Songjun: I was a SUSE user on all my machines.	Sep 10 14:57
schestowitz	I helped SUSE users in forums.	Sep 10 14:57
Eruaran	I hated suse with kde4	Sep 10 14:57
Eruaran	the way they changed some basic things	Sep 10 14:58
Eruaran	in ways that I know wont help the user at all	Sep 10 14:58
Songjun	schestowitz: hmm icic did you stop contributing after the novell/ms deal just cause?	Sep 10 14:58
_Doug	openSuSE was was idiosyncratic, to say the least	Sep 10 14:58
Eruaran	Like, "System Settings" in KDE4.x is not System Settings in Suse	Sep 10 14:58
Eruaran	I think thats plain stupid	Sep 10 14:58
Songjun	i know the mailing list archives are chock full of people ranting about it and saying they gave up	Sep 10 14:59
_Doug	I stick to a few bash scripts .. :)	Sep 10 14:59
schestowitz	Songjun: yes, days afterwards. Bruce Perens' letter was the first to make some people, including myself, what it all meant.	Sep 10 14:59
Songjun	but i wonder how many actually did leave	Sep 10 14:59
schestowitz	I don't think that matters.	Sep 10 14:59
Eruaran	One distro's loss is another's gain	Sep 10 14:59
Songjun	eruaran: true that	Sep 10 15:00
schestowitz	Ubuntu has gained a lot since.	Sep 10 15:00
_Doug	I do believe the GUI is overrated .. at lest the current one, menus and click boxed .. you still have to tel lthe computer what to do. Yea, I know this is computer heracy, so burn me at the stake ..	Sep 10 15:00
Songjun	oh when i mean 'leave', leave in the sense they decided to concentrate on other distros	Sep 10 15:00
Eruaran	I like to keep up with the whole semantic desktop thing	Sep 10 15:00
Eruaran	looks exciting to me	Sep 10 15:01
Eruaran	this is where free desktops can really pull ahead	Sep 10 15:01
Eruaran	I believe that if Microsoft ever does actually develop and release 'WinFS', it makes apps totally platform/filesystem dependant and it will drive developers away.	Sep 10 15:03
Eruaran	I like what the KDE team are doing	Sep 10 15:03
Eruaran	Its actually real rubber on the road stuff	Sep 10 15:03
Eruaran	Where apps aren't made platform dependant	Sep 10 15:04
schestowitz	Seigo wrote about Nepumok the other day (spelling?)	Sep 10 15:04
Eruaran	yes I read it	Sep 10 15:04
Eruaran	I think its really important stuff	Sep 10 15:07
Eruaran	I think Microsoft has a serious problem with this - they are years behind and their whole approach (if it really was ever anything more than vaporware) seems unworkable	Sep 10 15:08
MinceR	WinFS has already died.	Sep 10 15:09
twitter	again	Sep 10 15:10
schestowitz	Windows is not modular.	Sep 10 15:10
schestowitz	They said in 2005 (ish) that they would make it modular but they never did.	Sep 10 15:10
schestowitz	It's still vapourware: modularity. How long for? They'll deliver another TurdOS and then promise that the next one will excel.	Sep 10 15:11
Eruaran	I think they're in real trouble this time	Sep 10 15:12
schestowitz	Midori is another abstract vapourware because they know 7 will suck (if it's ever released in a shape of something different from SP).	Sep 10 15:12
twitter	Their vaporware model is remarkably modular. Somehow, they manage to separate each release from the previous failure.	Sep 10 15:12
schestowitz	People already know that 7 is Viata+1	Sep 10 15:12
Eruaran	the semantic desktop is becoming a reality, and they are not even in the ballpark	Sep 10 15:12
schestowitz	So they needed another fluffy idea flying in the air. Or maybe it was a leak. Doesn't matter either way.	Sep 10 15:12
schestowitz	MS: h"In the face of strong competition, Evangelism's focus may shift immediately to the next version of the same technology, however. Indeed, Phase 1 (Evangelism Starts) for version x+1 may start as soon as this Final Release of version X." ttp://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/u ploads/2008/08/comes-3096.pdf	Sep 10 15:13
twitter	Didn't BN cover a M$ email, where Paul Allen or some other M$ executive lamented Apple's tremendous lead in search?	Sep 10 15:13
schestowitz	Yes	Sep 10 15:14
schestowitz	Hold on	Sep 10 15:14
schestowitz	It was Allchin though	Sep 10 15:14
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/...	Sep 10 15:14
twitter	That pretty much tells the story. He said they had something like WinFS, except it worked and was fast.	Sep 10 15:14
schestowitz	it's _Doug who sent me a pointer to it.	Sep 10 15:15
Eruaran	I think the increasing strength of free software is sooner or later going to hobble M$'s traditional strategy of promoting the next vaporware OS... becuase they have nothing concrete to offer... I know we	Sep 10 15:15
Eruaran	I know we've all seen something like this before but I think the gap is going to get much bigger	Sep 10 15:15
Eruaran	Propaganda will not be enough	Sep 10 15:15
schestowitz	Ethical gap too.	Sep 10 15:15
schestowitz	They play dirtier	Sep 10 15:16
schestowitz	I have 2 more posts coming	Sep 10 15:16
Eruaran	A real semantic desktop looks like becoming a reality next year - and devs seem excited enough about it to start using it quickly - And we know Microsoft has nothing like this to offer... only Vista+1 RSI Edition (multi-touch).	Sep 10 15:18
Eruaran	I think describing it doesn't do justice to the possibilities for the end user experience	Sep 10 15:19
Eruaran	I think being able to move and rename a file and have your Amarok playlist still play without saying it cant find the file is only the tip of a very large iceberg	Sep 10 15:20
Eruaran	And Microsoft is the Titanic	Sep 10 15:20
Eruaran	Just my thoughts... I could be jumping the gun... but I have a "feeling" about this	Sep 10 15:21
schestowitz	Microsoft is a marketing company	Sep 10 15:26
schestowitz	KDE is a development community	Sep 10 15:26
schestowitz	I recently came to realise that the Asay/Microsoft-imposed FUD about it being dependent on corporations is nonsense.	Sep 10 15:27
schestowitz	KDE's commits come from volunteers about 70% of the time	Sep 10 15:27
Eruaran	yes	Sep 10 15:27
schestowitz	Yet Asay tries to give me the OSBC (Microsoft-funded) pitch about FOSS being all about money	Sep 10 15:28
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schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/08/...	Sep 10 15:28
_Doug	any news on the LSE crash that wasn't related to heavy trading, software, hardware, connectivity or .net ?	Sep 10 15:39
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schestowitz	Yes	Sep 10 15:40
schestowitz	See GL	Sep 10 15:40
neighborlee	hmm good find indeed..this should leave no room for guesswork as to whether or not mono is a 'risk' rofl	Sep 10 15:41
schestowitz	O'Brien laughs at you here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/ir...	Sep 10 15:41
_Doug	Large Hadron Collider Powers Up: no change here .. except everyone turned into a SMURF .. :)	Sep 10 15:43
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_Doug	schestoman: Where is GL ?	Sep 10 15:44
_Doug	Where in GL ?	Sep 10 15:44
schestowitz	Groklaw cited SJVN	Sep 10 15:44
schestowitz	I typed it with one finger, so kept it short.	Sep 10 15:44
schestowitz	I'm done eating now.	Sep 10 15:44
schestowitz	SJVN pointed a finger at Accenture and Microsoft.	Sep 10 15:45
_Doug	SJUN ?	Sep 10 15:45
schestowitz	Let me find it.	Sep 10 15:48
Eruaran	bbl	Sep 10 15:49
*Eruaran has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!")		Sep 10 15:49
schestowitz	http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_st...	Sep 10 15:50
neighborlee	hey peeps..do we know that seth stilll maintains his original positions from 2004, that he posted on his website ?	Sep 10 15:51
neighborlee	&/or has anyone talked to him recently about any oif this blah blah ...	Sep 10 15:52
neighborlee	I wonder if he is still part of gnome	Sep 10 15:52
schestowitz	neighborlee: do people raise that Q?	Sep 10 15:52
neighborlee	no	Sep 10 15:56
neighborlee	I have raised it just how	Sep 10 15:56
neighborlee	^>now	Sep 10 15:57
neighborlee	just something I am curious about is all	Sep 10 15:57
schestowitz	Googled his name yet?	Sep 10 15:57
neighborlee	no I thoguht you might know offhand since you have done so many studies and commentaries,,no biggie yes I can look.	Sep 10 15:57
_Doug	ot: "First, TradElec runs on more than a 100 HP ProLiant servers in several locations in London. These servers are running Windows Server 2003"	Sep 10 15:59
_Doug	"On top of this runs the TradElec software itself. This is a custom set of C# and .NET programs, which was created by Microsoft and Accenture .. Its back-end databases, believe it or not, run on Microsoft SQL Server 2000. The goal was to maintain sub-ten millisecond response times. In short, it's meant to be a real-time system"	Sep 10 15:59
schestowitz	"Microsoft and"	Sep 10 15:59
_Doug	Were any of those 'agile' software companies involved in the NHS disaster ?	Sep 10 16:00
schestowitz	Microsoft is still torturing Yahoo: Maritz and Tucci’s Microsoft Slog Against VMware	Sep 10 16:01
schestowitz	http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...	Sep 10 16:01
schestowitz	Microsoft uses Shills here (fact): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15...	Sep 10 16:01
schestowitz	neighborlee: if you find the answer, please report back. It's interesting.	Sep 10 16:03
neighborlee	ok	Sep 10 16:04
_Doug	ot: O2Micro patent battery charging ..	Sep 10 16:08
_Doug	http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/ne...	Sep 10 16:08
_Doug	I remember designing such circuits when I used to mess around with kits .. if only I had the foresight to patent it.	Sep 10 16:08
schestowitz	I'll be impressed when they patent this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7604293.stm	Sep 10 16:09
_Doug	I could go after O2Micro for a percentage .. :)	Sep 10 16:09
schestowitz	New: http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/...	Sep 10 16:10
_Doug	I referenced the Collider in an earlier msg .. that I haven't sent yet .. time distortion ?	Sep 10 16:10
neighborlee	ha yes I saw that on cnn this am ;)	Sep 10 16:10
_Doug	"Independent current and voltage sensing for each battery enables parallel charging of batteries at different charging currents"	Sep 10 16:13
_Doug	Well fucking DOH .. steering diodes and a current source .. any tech mag going back twenty years would have such circuitry	Sep 10 16:13
_Doug	google 'constant current source' 'steering diode'	Sep 10 16:14
schestowitz	_Doug: you drive the apologists mad: It demonstrates a shoddy Microsoft system and that Get the Facts campaign is flase advertising after those two collapses.	Sep 10 16:14
_Doug	http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7414381.html	Sep 10 16:14
_Doug	You mean LSE + NHS	Sep 10 16:15
_Doug	I would have done it different ..	Sep 10 16:15
_Doug	"High-side current-sensing smart battery charger" fucking doh a PNP power transister + a constant current source + a current/voltage sensor .. kiddie stuff ...	Sep 10 16:17
_Doug	I hereby patent an asymetrical mechanical device for removing the tops of cylindrical food containers	Sep 10 16:18
_Doug	The deluxe version is ambidextrious .. :0	Sep 10 16:19
schestowitz	File away.	Sep 10 16:19
_Doug	I designed sound to light units (at least on paper) only mine didn't allow the power rail onto the audio ground rail, used opto-coupling ..#	Sep 10 16:20
_Doug	So, no hum on the audio .. or danger of getting electrocuted ..	Sep 10 16:21
_Doug	I got hold of a bunch of Marconi manuals, most of these circuits were known even then, yea Marconi ..	Sep 10 16:22
_Doug	An analog Radar unit from WW2, used active noise cancelation on the power rail ..	Sep 10 16:22
_Doug	Anti-rain circuit, the display could scroll with the speed of the ship, so you got a trace on screen ..	Sep 10 16:23
_Doug	I designed and build my own NiCAD charger ..	Sep 10 16:24
_Doug	"System and method for controlling excessive charging-current in a battery power system"	Sep 10 16:25
twitter	Had a good laugh at O'Brain, but have to power down now. See you later.	Sep 10 16:25
schestowitz	Can Marconi be resurrected as a paten troll maybe?	Sep 10 16:25
schestowitz	Like Avistar's attempts?	Sep 10 16:26
_Doug	A timer + a distarge circuit + a timed charging circuit ..	Sep 10 16:26
schestowitz	twitter: good luck.	Sep 10 16:26
neighborlee	I think this experiment might be futile at this stage of our technical development , I mean we speculate on dark matter like its a hard fast rule and then proclaim we know enough about the intracacies of the universe and how they all interrelate, to know on any level what happened moments about the 'big bang' LOL..one day I suspect we'll know a lot more, but imho atm its in its infancy stages, if that ;)	Sep 10 16:26
_Doug	time for a break .. my arse is gettig numb ...	Sep 10 16:26
schestowitz	neighborlee: you don't believe in evolution, I suppose.	Sep 10 16:27
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neighborlee	schestowitz, I do	Sep 10 16:27
schestowitz	_Doug: you should patent something on it.	Sep 10 16:27
schestowitz	neighborlee: ah, okay.	Sep 10 16:27
neighborlee	schestowitz, but no one knows HOW it happened ;)	Sep 10 16:27
neighborlee	so pft	Sep 10 16:27
schestowitz	I still fail to see the use of such large experiments.	Sep 10 16:27
neighborlee	thats my point yes	Sep 10 16:27
schestowitz	It's to fulfill curiosity and to advance just a bit.	Sep 10 16:28
neighborlee	yes	Sep 10 16:28
schestowitz	But it's so much work and the world has other issues like global warming and hunger, not fantasies about other planets, even if colonies can be built there (big f* deal(	Sep 10 16:28
neighborlee	well its imo all related anyway...we need to u nderstand our universe , and our planet of couse obviously, as if we dont well we might find our species starting over from scratch because whether or not people know about it or not, there are huge threats out there , which if occured would see nuclear bombs pale in comparison ;)	Sep 10 16:33
neighborlee	so yeah, we need to colonize space etc, else we could easily go extinct LOL	Sep 10 16:33
neighborlee	blink of an eye ;)	Sep 10 16:33
schestowitz	Oh no: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/sho...	Sep 10 16:34
schestowitz	That's like Microsoft joining the Linux Foundation	Sep 10 16:34
schestowitz	Bunch of FUDsters. Is this a joke? It was founded by a Microsoft lad.	Sep 10 16:34
_Doug	You mean like a rubber beach ring my old boss used to sit on .. :)	Sep 10 16:42
schestowitz	Better than your boss working on the toilet seat, then coming to use your keyboard	Sep 10 16:42
_Doug	Haemoroid prevention device .. :)	Sep 10 16:43
_Doug	she used to sit on it in her office ..	Sep 10 16:43
_Doug	was a big girl .. looked like a Hippo in a dress ..	Sep 10 16:43
_Doug	BlackDuck .. ?	Sep 10 16:44
_Doug	embrace and pollute ..	Sep 10 16:44
_Doug	"Black Duck provides solutions for software development teams and legal counsel to manage the hybrid software development process"	Sep 10 16:45
schestowitz	VMware with Martitz is already there.. and Novell	Sep 10 16:45
schestowitz	The Linux Foundation thing is becoming as 'diluted' as OSI, which already has Microsoft in it.	Sep 10 16:45
_Doug	If you went totaly GPL, then you wouldn't need 'corporate counsels or outside law firms"	Sep 10 16:46
schestowitz	People in the Linux Foundation don't even /use/ GNU/Linux.	Sep 10 16:46
schestowitz	It's confirmed now. No more NovellBallnux from Lenovo: http://practical-tech.com/infrastructure/le...	Sep 10 16:48
schestowitz	More business for Dellbuntu hopefully.	Sep 10 16:49
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_Doug	What about the IBM "Microsoft-free" desktops	Sep 10 16:52
_Doug	http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8440296446.html	Sep 10 16:53
_Doug	Why don't a major OEM buy up a Linux distro and start selling a high-end multimedia machine and a basic Internet-ready one .. they would fly off the shelves ..	Sep 10 16:54
_Doug	They would of course have to be availabe in the high-street computer shop ..	Sep 10 16:54
_Doug	The Del+Ubuntu shop .. like the Apple shop .. sales and support .. if you need to take it back ..	Sep 10 16:55
_Doug	A subscription service for software + movies + tv ..	Sep 10 16:56
schestowitz	I remembered about IBM	Sep 10 16:56
_Doug	What happened to Linspire + Wallmart ?	Sep 10 16:56
schestowitz	Wrote about it this morning in fact: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/len...	Sep 10 16:56
schestowitz	Linspire is no more.	Sep 10 16:56
schestowitz	Wal-mart is in any case very close to Microsoft (executive shuffles and monopolies that think alike)	Sep 10 16:57
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_Doug	Where can I buy one of these ?	Sep 10 16:58
_Doug	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcNwnANrCpw	Sep 10 16:58
schestowitz	http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/communic... Opera joins Symbian Foundation	Sep 10 16:59
MinceR	:(	Sep 10 16:59
MinceR	opera is getting into bad company	Sep 10 16:59
schestowitz	I can check for you, _Doug.	Sep 10 16:59
schestowitz	Dragon something sells it...	Sep 10 17:00
schestowitz	Or just do what BillG and SwteatyB do: http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/communicat...	Sep 10 17:00
schestowitz	Oops. This one: http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-...	Sep 10 17:00
schestowitz	Funny typo on "Sweaty"	Sep 10 17:01
schestowitz	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowacon...	Sep 10 17:01
_Doug	that site seems to be dissapeared ..	Sep 10 17:04
schestowitz	Which one? The cyberjacked one?	Sep 10 17:05
_Doug	http://antitrust.slated.org/ ?	Sep 10 17:05
_Doug	no wrong link ..	Sep 10 17:06
schestowitz	it's OCRed... some of it, I think.	Sep 10 17:07
schestowitz	The text above is 25-pages long. You extracted just a paragraph. Lots of crime to skim through...	Sep 10 17:08
_Doug	The one about dumpster diving ..	Sep 10 17:09
schestowitz	Yeah, some guy got it.	Sep 10 17:09
schestowitz	It was once posted to USENET	Sep 10 17:09
schestowitz	Not anymore though. Microsoft tried to hide all that s*	Sep 10 17:10
schestowitz	Let me find it. Quiet settlement, just like Caldera... following by destruction.	Sep 10 17:10
schestowitz	I tried to contact Conlin but no answer.	Sep 10 17:10
_Doug	PX06262.pdf seems to be dissapeared ..	Sep 10 17:10
schestowitz	I asked for copies of the text or validation, IIRC. They must have gagged her agency as 'part of the settlement'. Kind of like the 3 monkeys.	Sep 10 17:10
schestowitz	No, it's there. I've just opened iy.	Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz	*it	Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz	Grouchy's archives is dropping some though.	Sep 10 17:11
_Doug	nop, I mean the original of bill goes dumpster diving .. the advert	Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz	I can't recall which one, but one of the prominent mirrors seems to have given up on a few and I don't know why. Worth asking in GL	Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz	Where was it?	Sep 10 17:11
schestowitz	YouTube?	Sep 10 17:12
schestowitz	http://www.roxanneconlinlaw.com/CM/Cu...	Sep 10 17:12
_Doug	"A glimse, to inspire your confidence in senior management, about how we	Sep 10 17:12
_Doug	develop stratagy"	Sep 10 17:12
schestowitz	http://www.iowamicrosoftcase.com/	Sep 10 17:13
_Doug	is that text in PX06262.pdf ?	Sep 10 17:13
schestowitz	Nothing about what actually happened and what Conlin showed (that Microsoft hid)	Sep 10 17:13
schestowitz	http://www.iowamicrosoftcase.com/pdfs/...	Sep 10 17:14
schestowitz	So Conclin's office uses Microsoft server and they only give damages for _MICROSOFT SOFTWARE_. How incompetent is that? Microsoft gives its software for free /already/ just so that people get locked in with their data	Sep 10 17:14
schestowitz	Ask her < http://www.roxanneconlinlaw.com/CM... > why we can't see Microsoft's reasons for settlement anymore.	Sep 10 17:16
_Doug	I found it, it's on page 10 (that's numbered from AcroReader and not the internal numbering) .. :)	Sep 10 17:19
schestowitz	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrwnJDQy0ic ( Steve Ballmer feat. Bill Gates - Da da da )	Sep 10 17:20
_Doug	That's the whole point of a settlement, so has you don't have to show your cards ..	Sep 10 17:20
schestowitz	"A lengthy anecdote about accounting irregularities exposed by whistleblower Charles Pancerzewski concludes weakly, "Microsoft paid over $4 million to make Pancerzewski go away, an amount that presumably wouldn't be paid out without the Office of the President, the trio to which Ballmer belonged, signing off on it."	Sep 10 17:20
schestowitz	From http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business... about Microsoft fraud allegations	Sep 10 17:21
_Doug	500: internel server error: can't browse the directories .. :(	Sep 10 17:21
_Doug	http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumerca...	Sep 10 17:21
schestowitz	The Seattle Press is of course trying to dismiss it. Are they funded by Microsoft directly or just indirectly?	Sep 10 17:21
_Doug	Not necessarly, but once commercial interests are involved, the players are reluctant to rock-the-boat, risk lose advertising etc ..	Sep 10 17:25
_Doug	How many business do business with Microsoft, in a non-software area ?	Sep 10 17:26
schestowitz	Microsoft coverage is the P-I's bread and butter.	Sep 10 17:28
schestowitz	But that too is a general issue in the press. you can't expect fair coverage when journos write for their next paycheck. Gates and Microsoft both funnel money into media companies.	Sep 10 17:28
_Doug	pt: Obama "You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."	Sep 10 17:31
_Doug	He said that last year in relation to a comment by Sen. Hillary Clinton	Sep 10 17:32
_Doug	Se he didn't mean Palin, he meant Hill . .:)	Sep 10 17:33
_Doug	"That's not change. That's just calling something the same thing something different. You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. You know you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it's still going to stink after eight years. We've had enough of the same old thing." Video	Sep 10 17:34
_Doug	Actually, 'fish' is a pejorative in the Saphic community .. so I've been told .. :)	Sep 10 17:35
_Doug	That's even worse .. :)	Sep 10 17:35
_Doug	"You know the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick."	Sep 10 17:36
_Doug	YOu know,she reminds me of Lisa Simpson when she grows up ..	Sep 10 17:37
_Doug	Or www.shelley the Republican http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/	Sep 10 17:37
_Doug	Only Shelly is tryign to be funny ...	Sep 10 17:38
schestowitz	Is it a Shelley?	Sep 10 17:38
schestowitz	Does the author had a real identity?	Sep 10 17:39
_Doug	Probably a buch of script writers .. it's so good .. almost fools you ...	Sep 10 17:39
_Doug	I watch some of Palin on YOutube and it could almost pas muster on shellythe..	Sep 10 17:40
_Doug	"I think God fearing Republicans will understand me when I say that one of the wonderful things about Alaska is that it is so pure and white"	Sep 10 17:41
_Doug	That's from Shelly .. not Palin .. :)	Sep 10 17:41
schestowitz	Alaska? Home of recent corruption?	Sep 10 17:42
schestowitz	Not so white: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&...	Sep 10 17:42
schestowitz	Remember: biggest crooks wear suits, but they are smart/rich enough to sneak their way out of justice.	Sep 10 17:43
_Doug	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG1vPYbRB7k&...	Sep 10 17:44
*schestowitz looks		Sep 10 17:44
schestowitz	[ducks /] A nation of ~300 million and they can't find a person better?	Sep 10 17:46
schestowitz	McCain too is a toy to corporations	Sep 10 17:46
schestowitz	Just like Stevens.	Sep 10 17:46
schestowitz	It seems as though the biggest ahem crooks are best at buying their way into positions of power with the help of megacorps that they then serve. No wonder Lessig is furious.	Sep 10 17:47
_Doug	OK: get back on topic ..	Sep 10 17:47
schestowitz	Byfield and the guy I used to write to sort of troll Slashdot now.	Sep 10 17:48
schestowitz	It's annoying to watch it, but I won't open that box	Sep 10 17:48
schestowitz	There should be a new word for it: "headline-trolling" (see if you can spot it in /.)	Sep 10 17:48
_Doug	PM:	Sep 10 17:49
schestowitz	I wrote about it here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/31/...	Sep 10 17:49
*_Doug has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))		Sep 10 17:57
*rmarquis (n=rmarquis@adsl-84-226-154-72.adslplus.ch) has joined #boycottnovell		Sep 10 18:04
neighborlee	schestowitz, well we'll seee, I emailed seth , so if I get a reply Ill make sure to let you know.	Sep 10 18:08
schestowitz	Where's he now? Do you know..?	Sep 10 18:09
neighborlee	nope	Sep 10 18:12
neighborlee	I checked and 'seth' isn't in #gnome atm anyway	Sep 10 18:13
neighborlee	could be any nick of course lol	Sep 10 18:13
*aymak (n=chatzill@h226.19.88.75.static.ip.windstream.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Sep 10 18:22
*aymak has quit (Client Quit)		Sep 10 18:23
schestowitz	http://www.cafuego.net/2008/09/09/l...	Sep 10 18:31
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*rmarquis has quit ("leaving")		Sep 10 18:48
*trmanco (n=trmanco@bl7-12-56.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell		Sep 10 19:12
trmanco	meh	Sep 10 19:44
schestowitz	Hey there.	Sep 10 19:44
trmanco	COLA is full of trolls	Sep 10 19:44
trmanco	Hi	Sep 10 19:44
schestowitz	Yes, it's better to filter/skip their posts. I'm posting there at the moment.	Sep 10 19:45
schestowitz	There's something urgent worth writing about: http://www.cafuego.net/2008/09/09/linux... http://brendanscott.wordpress.com/2008/09/1...	Sep 10 19:45
trmanco	cool	Sep 10 19:48
trmanco	well looks like microsoft fixed a a couple of flaws in their "OS's"	Sep 10 19:50
schestowitz	8?	Sep 10 19:51
trmanco	how much flaws do they still have to fix ?	Sep 10 19:51
trmanco	yeah 8	Sep 10 19:51
schestowitz	I'm going to do an 'eye on MS" post as well.	Sep 10 19:51
schestowitz	It has some bit on security in it.	Sep 10 19:51
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell		Sep 10 19:51
trmanco	yes	Sep 10 19:52
trmanco	is Linonut a troll or a advocate?	Sep 10 19:53
trmanco	by the name I would say he is a troll...	Sep 10 19:53
*_Doug (n=ISA4567@193.122.47.170) has joined #boycottnovell		Sep 10 19:54
schestowitz	Linonut is one of the good guys. He's just joking sometimes.	Sep 10 19:55
schestowitz	We have a list of the trolls.	Sep 10 19:55
trmanco	yes that blog on blogger	Sep 10 19:56
schestowitz	http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/	Sep 10 19:56
trmanco	I've seen it already,but are they all there?	Sep 10 19:56
schestowitz	Some change their names.	Sep 10 19:56
schestowitz	I don't know who runs the blog.	Sep 10 19:56
trmanco	ok	Sep 10 19:57
schestowitz	The trolls have had a bit of a recess. It was worse some months ago.	Sep 10 19:58
schestowitz	Some are/were Microsoft employees.	Sep 10 19:58
schestowitz	Also see: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2.advoc...	Sep 10 19:59
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.34.229.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell		Sep 10 20:09
_Doug	hi tallken ...	Sep 10 20:10
Tallken	hi _Doug	Sep 10 20:11
_Doug	what distro do you use ?	Sep 10 20:11
Tallken	wth?	Sep 10 20:13
Tallken	openSuSE? :P	Sep 10 20:13
_Doug	Ahh .. OK ...	Sep 10 20:14
Tallken	lol was just curious to check your reaction	Sep 10 20:14
Tallken	Kubuntu, actually	Sep 10 20:14
Tallken	:P	Sep 10 20:14
_Doug	Xfce or Fluxbox or Bash ?	Sep 10 20:14
Tallken	KDE?	Sep 10 20:14
_Doug	I find less is more ..	Sep 10 20:15
_Doug	Too many widgets on screen, distract and draw your attention away ..	Sep 10 20:15
schestowitz	_Doug: you can hide the widgets	Sep 10 20:15
schestowitz	Set up keyboard accelerators.	Sep 10 20:16
schestowitz	Mouse gestures even. But for each its own. For everyone else there's masterc... errr. emacs.	Sep 10 20:16
_Doug	I find, unless I have a highspec machine, that all the background stuff slows down the response .. I recall long ago, switching screens was almost instantanious	Sep 10 20:20
_Doug	I don't need a widget popping up asking me if I want to open the USB device in image-vieweer - if I did I would be doing it ..	Sep 10 20:21
_Doug	Do you want to X, Y, Z .. no .. thanks for nagging me .. now sod off and stop blocking the text I'm reading ... :)	Sep 10 20:22
schestowitz	Sounds like you has an experience with ClippiX.	Sep 10 20:22
_Doug	What ever, the app nagging me to do stuff isn't helping ..	Sep 10 20:23
_Doug	I usually set mine up to look like the Apple .. :)	Sep 10 20:25
_Doug	I also have a customized XP desktop for the refugees from WindowsLand that come in here ..	Sep 10 20:26
_Doug	It's amazing watching the expression on their faces when you tell them they've been using Linux ...	Sep 10 20:26
_Doug	It's just like Windows !!!	Sep 10 20:26
_Doug	gtg ..	Sep 10 20:27
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schestowitz	Tallken: it's posted now: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/10/failures-...	Sep 10 21:47
Tallken	schestowitz: weird, didn't expect NBC to go back to flash	Sep 10 21:50
Tallken	not that I am complaining :D	Sep 10 21:50
schestowitz	Me neither.	Sep 10 21:50
Tallken	Hum, greater user base	Sep 10 21:52
Tallken	hum, I wonder why	Sep 10 21:52
Tallken	I could consider installing silverlight	Sep 10 21:52
Tallken	if there was a Linux version	Sep 10 21:52
Tallken	jackasses :@	Sep 10 21:52
Tallken	I did install in Windows out of curiosity	Sep 10 21:53
Tallken	clearly I was too curious	Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz	No, they want to deprive GNU/Linux and then point at Miguel&Novell	Sep 10 21:53
Tallken	I should deinstall it soon	Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz	That's the 'beauty' of it.	Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz	They disserve Linux but use Novell as their excuse... also to the EU.	Sep 10 21:53
Tallken	ya	Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz	No hypervisor support? No, no... they work with Linux.... NOVELL Linux.	Sep 10 21:53
Tallken	Novell isn't doing their part lol	Sep 10 21:53
schestowitz	Only that which passes royalties to Microsoft.	Sep 10 21:53
Tallken	the usual	Sep 10 21:54
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Comments

Chris

2008-09-11 12:37:17

IMHO it is pretty funny that [H]omer banned benjiman (~ 9:45) cause of trolling although he did nothing else then repeatedly pointing out where you zealots were wrong.

So, besides showing what a tard [H]omer is, it proves once more that the real intention of this site or its associated irc channel is not really "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft" but more like "Spreading FUD about anything we don't like and ignoring & silencing everone & everything who or which doesn't agree with us".

You guys are just laughable!

PS: @Roy: If you really want to unban him but are unable to do so: Why don't you kick [H]omers ass then and let him undo what he did?
Roy Schestowitz

2008-09-11 13:26:25

Benjamin is back.
Chris

2008-09-11 14:07:22

That's not the point since benjiman is still banned ...
Baby In The Bath Water

2008-09-11 14:09:44

This also isn't the first time [H]omer has banned people who you admit should not have been banned. E.g. CJ.

Note: this comment was posted from Novell's headquarters.

Roy Schestowitz

2008-09-11 14:14:25

I'm no IRC expert. I removed both bans after [H]omer had set them, but the one on Benjamin was restored as soon he entered (maybe there's also a kicklist). I used to struggle with the commands, but now I try the graphical front end in XChat. I can't find a kicklist under the menu.

Chris

2008-09-11 14:31:15

I noticed this. Which is why I suggested that you kick [H]omers ass to get him to fix what he screwed up and also to get him to understand that he shouldn't ban people for the mere reason that they disagree with him and that disagreeing whith him is not automatically trolling.

If he is unable to control himself I suggest you just remove his op privileges.

Chris

2008-09-11 14:33:14

PS: Just to make this clear: I noticed this not as in "I know that you aren't an IRC expert" but as in "I saw that you tried".

Baby In The Bath Water

2008-09-11 14:38:59

[H]omer probably rigged the chanserv bot to restore the ban, so you'll need to unregister the ban on the bot.

/msg chanserv help

That might get you the necessary info, or at least hopefully point you in the right direction.

Hope that helps.

Note: this comment was posted from Novell's headquarters.

Roy Schestowitz

2008-09-11 14:43:56

I hear what you say, Chris. The problem is that [H]omer I can typically trust (known him on the Net for years) *and* he's also permanently on-line. I can't have one mod/op because I'm away some of the time. I'll talk to him.

ml2mst

2008-09-12 06:28:37

Disgusting, their just trying to set you up against [H]omer, who is a cool dude, in contrast to those Microvell spies. They are not any better than the scum that haunts COLA.

Cheers

Roy Schestowitz

2008-09-12 06:47:00

Yes, I know. They also try to steal op and ruin the channel. Can't trust anybody...

Chris

2008-09-12 12:14:23

@ml2mst: LMAO - so you call it "disgusting" if one requests a change in [H]omer's attitude so he wont ban people for the mere fact of disagreeing with you zealots and pointing out when you, once again, are wrong?

But hey, of course they need to be silenced since they just are "Microvell spies" who obviously can't be right since they don't agree with your own little world ...

I guess there is nothing to add since it is pretty self explanatory ...

@Roy: It will never cease to amaze me under which rocks or probably more in which parents basements you find those guys ...

Baby In The Bath Water

2008-09-12 15:29:53

@Roy: I don't seem to recall asking for ops nor do I recall Chris or anyone else who disagrees with you asking for ops (or even trying to steal it - how is it even possible to 'steal' ops on an irc network that uses chanserv?)

Note: this comment was posted from Novell's headquarters.

Roy Schestowitz

2008-09-12 15:34:25

I received some information in private.

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 10th, 2008

Comments

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