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IRC #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 8th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:01 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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ZiggyFish good morning Jun 08 00:04
moparx hey Jun 08 01:02
ZiggyFish hey Jun 08 01:12
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schestowitz I resent this contest (news): http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,1… . This insinuates that software patents have validity and that SF.net can have you sued. Unsurprisingly, it’s funded by Microsoft. They can get away with this, too. Jun 08 05:08
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schestowitz http://www.opensource.org/node/338 … Technical things compared to political (“communism”) and religious (“fundamentalist”) concerts. The Redmond FUD factory keeps busy. Jun 08 06:21
cozub schestowitz: while WinRiver has been doing some linux stuff recently, afaik VxWorks has nothing to do with linux… is so, then http://www.bloggernews.net/116062 iz nonsense Jun 08 08:31
cozub s/ is / if/ Jun 08 08:31
cozub (commenting on that, as you linkes to that in here http://boycottnovell.com/20… ) Jun 08 08:31
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schestowitz Yes, seen the correction in the few places and added mine in Tux Machines. Jun 08 08:34
cozub ok Jun 08 08:36
schestowitz dsmith_, if Lenovo is /definitely/ not selling FreeDOS PCs, please let me know so that I can post away Jun 08 11:03
ZiggyFish schestowitz: are you going to be doing some posts soon? Jun 08 11:04
schestowitz Just did. I’m not sure if something can be said about Lenovo yet. Let’s do some links now. Jun 08 11:27
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Eruaran hello Jun 08 16:24
schestowitz Hey there, I came back a minute ago. Jun 08 16:27
Eruaran Anything interesting happening ? Jun 08 16:45
schestowitz I’m catching up. Microsoft has been eerily quiet in recent weeks (virtually no new products, just 3 dead ones) and it hasn’t assaulted much either, so hopefully it ain’t the calm before a storm… I wonder how long before Microsoft gets cozy with Linux Foundation, which would sidle with Microsoft before it ever meets the the Free Software Foundation. Sharing funds and ideology would help them tremendously though (FSF and LF). Jun 08 16:55
schestowitz There’s also the ambivalent IBM with its so-called ‘MSO killer’. It is based on an old version on OOo. Still, better Lotus Symphony than MSO. Standards are a good start. One could learn from the Eclipse roadmap and suppose IBM will get it right eventually (Lotus Symphony would otherwise be a dinosaur with the dwindling IBM brand name/logo on it and nothing more). Jun 08 16:56
Eruaran I dunno why they based it on OOo 1.1 though Jun 08 16:58
arebenti http://www.betanews.com/article/EC_approves_… Jun 08 17:00
Eruaran Yes already know about that… I’ve heard some reassuring statements but I’m still uncomfortable about Nokia Jun 08 17:02
schestowitz Thanks. I saw this earlier. I’m not sure sure Nokia is dangerous to GNU/Linux, but patents are a problem. Back in late May Nokia hailed Linux but at the same time sheltered its crown jewels (Symbian) Jun 08 17:03
Eruaran I don’t get the impression that Nokia has long term future plans for Symbian any more Jun 08 17:04
schestowitz Really?!?! I’d be very interest in more evidence. Jun 08 17:04
schestowitz interested, I mean Jun 08 17:04
Eruaran Unless they are thinking of running QTopia on Symbian… Jun 08 17:05
Eruaran But that just smacks of effort Jun 08 17:05
Eruaran :P Jun 08 17:05
Eruaran They already have linux devices Jun 08 17:06
schestowitz Nokia “definitely” preparing Linux-based phones, flavor unknown http://tinyurl.com/3usutw http://www.engadget.com/… Jun 08 17:06
schestowitz In The Register they sort of denied rumours of adopting more Maemo/GTK/Qt for phones. Jun 08 17:06
schestowitz It got started in Reuters: “Nokia eyes wider usage of Linux in cellphones” ( http://uk.reuters.com/article/tech… ) Jun 08 17:07
arebenti http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t-… Jun 08 17:08
schestowitz When they made the deal I immediately thought they tried to block OHA, OpenMoko, and maybe even Motorola and Palm. Jun 08 17:08
schestowitz So does this Erkki Ormala chap inherit the swppats love? Jun 08 17:09
Eruaran I think Nokia isn’t interested in shouting “were using Linux” from the rooftops, they are more interested in promoting their brand name with hopefully good products without the customer needing to know anything about the software… Nokia doesn’t come from or play in a market where people usually ask, “what OS does this run ?” Jun 08 17:10
schestowitz You know, it was a former Microsoft employee who now works at Nokia that produced the FUD piece to intercept Ogg in HTML5. He wanted DRM and said Ogg suffered [sic] from swpats. Jun 08 17:10
Eruaran hmm Jun 08 17:11
Eruaran I’m starting to think that “former” Microsoft employees are kind of like “former” CIA agents. Jun 08 17:11
schestowitz Yes. Jun 08 17:11
arebenti our assumption is that there is a thin industry platform for swpat lobbying in Europe. Jun 08 17:11
schestowitz They ruin Google as well. Jun 08 17:12
schestowitz <arebenti> , can you elaborate plase? Jun 08 17:12
Eruaran DRM will eat itself. Jun 08 17:12
arebenti Nokia is an essential part of it. Jun 08 17:13
arebenti Nokia, Siemens, Microsoft. Jun 08 17:13
arebenti etc Jun 08 17:13
schestowitz yes, Siemen. Ben keeps harping about it. Jun 08 17:13
schestowitz Siemems. Jun 08 17:13
arebenti and you know, there are internal discussions, divergent interests. Jun 08 17:13
schestowitz ACTA? Jun 08 17:14
arebenti ACTA and TEC are special. Jun 08 17:14
schestowitz List of attendance from Switzerland would be good. Microsoft also has meetings with RIAA. Jun 08 17:14
schestowitz I wonder about SAP’s role also. Jun 08 17:15
arebenti Acta and TEC: Dinosaur vampires. Cast light on it and they will burn. Jun 08 17:15
schestowitz They had the Agassi fellow (he ran away) doing a lot of anti-FOSS mouthwork. Jun 08 17:15
dsmith_ “[06:10:24] <schestowitz> dsmith_, if Lenovo is /definitely/ not selling FreeDOS PCs, please let me know so that I can post away”     OK… Jun 08 17:16
Eruaran There’s something all these corporates seem to forget Jun 08 17:16
arebenti anti propaganda is helpful Jun 08 17:16
schestowitz Reach is hard. Getting beyond the choir. Jun 08 17:16
Eruaran The customer. Jun 08 17:16
schestowitz The customer isn’t forgotten. Jun 08 17:17
schestowitz Never. Jun 08 17:17
schestowitz But it ain’t you. Jun 08 17:17
schestowitz The customer is Hollywood and OEMs. Jun 08 17:17
Eruaran heh Jun 08 17:17
schestowitz You’re a worthless side effect Jun 08 17:17
schestowitz Whatever is on the shelf thou shalt take Jun 08 17:18
arebenti acta is an indirect outcome from WIPO symposiums on piracy and counterfeiting. Jun 08 17:18
arebenti No 4 here http://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articl… Jun 08 17:19
Eruaran When our customers discover the dark side of DRM, we can see what the long term future of DRM is. Jun 08 17:20
schestowitz WIPO is a big problem. You know this a lot better than me, but a lot of the pwpats mess leads back to them. Jun 08 17:20
arebenti no. Jun 08 17:20
arebenti Wipo is a diplomatic consensus based UN institution currently obstructed by Brazil. Jun 08 17:21
schestowitz It’s hard to criticise it. I can’t remember what role in played that made me associate it with intellectual WHIPPING (or people WEEPING) Jun 08 17:23
schestowitz I think of it as a front, but a very sophisticated one that’s immune to criticism. A bit like MPAA, UN, White House… Jun 08 17:23
arebenti TRIPs was done via GATT because WIPO could not deliver, forum shopping. Jun 08 17:23
schestowitz To what extant are they involved in patents? Jun 08 17:25
arebenti WIPO does PCT, it is basically forwarding of patents. Worldwide application. A substantial income source for WIPO, thus the conflicts about developing agenda. Jun 08 17:26
arebenti WIPO is one of the richest UN institutions because of these income sources. Jun 08 17:27
arebenti SPLT (Substantiver Patent Law Treaty) failed at WIPO. substantive == unify dogmatic what is patentable and what criteria are used Jun 08 17:28
arebenti So they continued in the B+ subgroup (industrial nations) where it also failed Jun 08 17:29
schestowitz Who pushed SPLT forward, I wonder. Jun 08 17:29
arebenti so discussions get continued on a transatlantic trade talk base, in the TEC trade process outside WIPO Jun 08 17:30
arebenti pushed by TABD – they set the agenda what politicians (EU-Commissioners, US Trade Commissioners) discuss. Jun 08 17:31
arebenti last meeting 13 May Jun 08 17:31
arebenti It was pushed a bit amateurish without knwoledge of the insights. Jun 08 17:32
schestowitz Is this related the the warning that came from FFII about the Commissioner and harmonisation? Also, to what extent can they affect the east? Jun 08 17:32
arebenti yes. Jun 08 17:32
arebenti The press release says they agreed on a road map. Jun 08 17:33
schestowitz OSIndia reports that they try to spread the swpats seeds in their also, but I haven’t read the details. Jun 08 17:33
arebenti The point you also find in the ffii pr is: the US needs to move first. Jun 08 17:33
arebenti This is commonly agreed. Jun 08 17:33
schestowitz Private road map for now? Jun 08 17:33
arebenti The precondition for SPLT is that the US moves to first to file. Jun 08 17:34
schestowitz That’s insane. Jun 08 17:34
arebenti road map: not public Jun 08 17:34
schestowitz Ha! Jun 08 17:34
schestowitz Who funds this? Jun 08 17:34
arebenti Now, what we know about the road map is that it was written by amateurs. Jun 08 17:35
schestowitz Same in Quebec recently. Also in BECTA and Newham in the UK (MoU) Jun 08 17:35
arebenti They want an agreement this year. Won’t work. Jun 08 17:35
schestowitz Amateurs = less liability in case of mistakes. Jun 08 17:36
arebenti amateurs in the sense of unexperienced. Jun 08 17:36
arebenti These industry guys from the US have no clue how the political process moves. Jun 08 17:36
arebenti So when they write a road map that pushes really hard and fast… Jun 08 17:38
schestowitz Yes, it’s a bit like filing for patents pretending now to have known about prior art or starting a lawsuit under these conditions. punishments are less severe… Jun 08 17:38
schestowitz What sources are you using to gain visibility — a glance into such things? Jun 08 17:39
arebenti TEC is a “strange” political process. the agenda is too extremist. Jun 08 17:39
schestowitz I’m mainly fixed on the software side. Jun 08 17:40
arebenti rss feeds are a real productivity tool Jun 08 17:40
schestowitz Yes, but which ones? I’m on all of FFII’s ones, I think. Jun 08 17:40
arebenti As of TEC its all public. Jun 08 17:40
arebenti http://www.tabd.com Jun 08 17:41
schestowitz I see you mainly on NOOOXML. Am I missing a research sandbox? Jun 08 17:42
arebenti They even write it like “We set the agenda, politician will do x” Jun 08 17:42
schestowitz *watching URL* Jun 08 17:42
arebenti yes. private wikis Jun 08 17:43
schestowitz Typical ‘brochure’ (i.e. useless) site: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=… Jun 08 17:43
zoobab hi Jun 08 17:47
arebenti hi Jun 08 17:47
zoobab I injected the idea of IRC in arebenti’s mind yesterday Jun 08 17:48
schestowitz Thanks for that. Jun 08 17:48
arebenti I am just here to improve by black list ranking… Jun 08 17:48
schestowitz I haven’t used IRC for over 10 years. Jun 08 17:48
schestowitz Heh. You should have seen some of the trolls that came in and got banned. Jun 08 17:48
zoobab you mean your visibility online: (publicly logged) Jun 08 17:49
zoobab I am dead after yesterday party Jun 08 17:49
zoobab but the weather is nicer today Jun 08 17:49
arebenti it was gre4at Jun 08 17:49
zoobab finally some sun Jun 08 17:49
zoobab I have a poster Jun 08 17:49
zoobab http://www.bulexasbl.be/_images/f… Jun 08 17:50
schestowitz Same here (Sun) Jun 08 17:50
schestowitz Was out running for an hour in Trafford. Jun 08 17:50
arebenti how2 download a complete website with wget? Jun 08 17:50
zoobab wget -m Jun 08 17:50
schestowitz I have a cron jab for it. Jun 08 17:50
zoobab the problem is that you cannot download a portion of a website Jun 08 17:51
schestowitz Everything I cite get stored locally twice a day. Handy for 404s Jun 08 17:51
zoobab like http://www.mysite.com/portion/ Jun 08 17:51
schestowitz +subdirs? Jun 08 17:53
zoobab having a look Jun 08 17:53
zoobab you mean –cut-dirs? Jun 08 17:54
arebenti My visibility? No goal. Jun 08 17:55
zoobab andre, can you have a look in the office if you don’t see a DVD Jun 08 17:56
zoobab a DVD without any jacket Jun 08 17:57
arebenti negative Jun 08 17:58
zoobab can you have a look in your pile of blank CDs? Jun 08 18:04
schestowitz Interesting new comments (found moments ago) from “NoSoftwarePatents”: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/0… Jun 08 18:05
schestowitz The Moox translators are C#-infected. Jun 08 18:06
arebenti negative Jun 08 18:07
arebenti moox, I see. what speaks against c#? Jun 08 18:08
schestowitz Software patents, bias against P/Ls that are not associated with and controlled by Microsoft… among other things. Long story. Jun 08 18:09
arebenti the ximian culture to proactively create dependencies on half-baked solutions is the problem here. Jun 08 18:12
zoobab wifi antenna from the trash: Jun 08 18:12
zoobab http://zoobab.wikidot.com/tetrapakantenna Jun 08 18:12
zoobab coming to the office, I need to find this DVD to give it back Jun 08 18:14
schestowitz “yes, but does it run Linux?” Jun 08 18:15
schestowitz Just caught beneath the headlines: Microsoft India Managing Director jumped ship. The India ops are a mess (can provide refs if anyone is interested). Jun 08 18:40
Eruaran sure Jun 08 18:41
schestowitz News: http://infotech.indiatimes.com/arti… Jun 08 18:42
schestowitz Recent: Jun 08 18:42
Eruaran thx Jun 08 18:42
schestowitz ..hold on… Jun 08 18:42
Eruaran Internode is hosting a sourceforge mirror in Aust now Jun 08 18:43
schestowitz This one is a ‘wower’: http://minimsft.blogspot.com/200… (plenty to read in older comments… leaks rather) Jun 08 18:43
Eruaran Somebody at Internode loves open source Jun 08 18:43
Eruaran If you choose Internode as your ISP you get free Ubuntu repositories and Sourceforge Jun 08 18:44
schestowitz sourceforge seems to become somewhat of a Microsoft buddy, even the NewsForce umbrella. Jun 08 18:44
schestowitz From the news: Jun 08 18:44
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/articl… Jun 08 18:44
Eruaran yes Jun 08 18:45
schestowitz “Take, for example, “Most Likely to Be Ambiguously Accused of Patent Violation.” This one calls attention to the perennial problem of so-called submarine patents, where software developers run afoul of patents that were awarded to speculators years earlier. Another category, “Most Likely to Get Users Sued,” points out that not even customers are safe from intellectual property disputes.” Jun 08 18:45
Eruaran read that article Jun 08 18:45
schestowitz Contest sponsored by Microsoft, of course. There’s more FUD and VS2008 promo on its way from sf.net Jun 08 18:45
Eruaran sad Jun 08 18:46
Eruaran nevertheless, Internode customers get free Ubuntu repos Jun 08 18:46
Eruaran That means it doesn’t affect download limits Jun 08 18:46
schestowitz Which country is that in again? Jun 08 18:52
schestowitz Oh wait. Jun 08 18:52
schestowitz AI Jun 08 18:52
schestowitz AU Jun 08 18:52
schestowitz As I thought, I want to show you something: Jun 08 18:52
Eruaran I’m interested in anything local as I don’t hear much Jun 08 18:53
Eruaran Its not reported much Jun 08 18:53
schestowitz I can’t recall the name of the ISP that blocked or neglected OOo downloads because it competed with its own new service. Jun 08 18:54
schestowitz It was on iTWire of TechBlorge but it might take me a while to find the URL Jun 08 18:55
Eruaran Pretty sure it was Optus Jun 08 18:55
Eruaran Optusnet Jun 08 18:55
Eruaran Optus is owned by Singtel Jun 08 18:56
Eruaran Singtel is a Microsoft partner Jun 08 18:56
Eruaran Before Singtel bought Optus out, their call centers used Macs and Optus actively kept track of GNU/Linux use amongst their customers, including which distro’s people were using. Jun 08 18:58
schestowitz I’m not sure. Jun 08 19:02
schestowitz It doesn’t ring the same bell. Let me check. Jun 08 19:02
Eruaran ah sorry it was bigpond Jun 08 19:03
Eruaran telstra Jun 08 19:03
schestowitz Yup, found it. Jun 08 19:04
schestowitz “Major Aussie ISP Telstra BigPond shafts open source OpenOffice “ Jun 08 19:04
dsmith_ shafts? Jun 08 19:04
schestowitz http://tech.blorge.com/Structure%20/2007/12/1… Jun 08 19:04
schestowitz “Australia’s largest Internet service provider Telstra BigPond has removed the free open source office suite OpenOffice from its unmetered file download area following the launch of its own, free, hosted, office application, BigPond Office. [...] Our reader was outraged by Telstra’s move, which he sees as an attack on the open source software movement.” Jun 08 19:05
Eruaran Telstra is a monopolist Jun 08 19:06
Eruaran So no surprises there Jun 08 19:06
dsmith_ dates news, but Bravo Sierra nonetheless Jun 08 19:06
dsmith_ *dated Jun 08 19:06
schestowitz That’s the danger of throttling of tiered Web. It permits abuse. Comcast and the other Microsoft buddies (yes, they work with MS against Google, using actual deals) intercepted torrents and not they target users, not protocols. Jun 08 19:08
schestowitz OBS: Asay (CNET), Foley ((ZDNet) and  the Ramji Trojan horse do the ‘damage control’: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1433 Jun 08 19:10
schestowitz More on Microsoft’s open-source embarrassment: http://www.networkworld.com/comm… Jun 08 19:14
Eruaran “The principle of the matter upsets me,” he said. “The fact that BigPond has removed previously allowed open source software is un-ethical. They are discriminating against me, even though I pay the same as other customers.  They are attacking the Free Software movement.” Jun 08 19:28
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arebenti http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegWeb/appl… Jun 08 21:11
arebenti search for “software” Jun 08 21:13
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yuhong I am kind of neutral on Vista, but I do hate the MS-Novell deal. Jun 08 21:47
yuhong Also, in terms of openness: ODF, OOXML, and of course the worst is the MS Office 97-2003 formats: .DOC, .XLS, PPT Jun 08 21:48
tacone yuhong: vista worked like a charm for me. I turned the new pc, downloaded firefox, downloaded a linux iso with firefox and burned it without a problem. oh, and it shutted down properly either. Jun 08 21:49
yuhong It does for me too, most of the time. Somewhat slow, but that is because I got only 1GB of RAM. Jun 08 21:50
tacone yuhong: I was kinda ironic, sorry :-) Jun 08 21:50
yuhong I do think that eliminating of software patents would be much better than trying to back off the deal. Jun 08 21:52
tacone yuhong: sw patents are valid only in a number of countries. but I don’t think those will disappear anytime soon. the maximum to be obtained would be a reform, imho. Jun 08 21:55
yuhong Because if MS was not able to sue. the patent deal is meaningless. Jun 08 21:55
yuhong The deal comes into play only after you are sued, with the deal you can still use Linux, without the deal you can Jun 08 21:56
tacone actually MS itself. is quite damaged by sw patents. they loose a lot of money on being sued all the time. Jun 08 21:56
yuhong Ihe deal comes into play only after you are sued, with the deal you can still use Linux, without the deal you can’t Jun 08 21:56
yuhong The deal comes into play only after you are sued, with the deal you can still use Linux, without the deal you can Jun 08 21:56
yuhong The deal comes into play only after you are sued, with the deal you can still use Linux, without the deal you can’t Jun 08 21:57
yuhong So yes the deal could effectively make Linux non-free software, but only if MS was able to sue Jun 08 21:57
yuhong A reform would be a good first step. Jun 08 21:58
tacone linux can’t be made non-free imho. it would just get stripped down, changed or outlawed. Jun 08 21:58
yuhong Yep even non-free software is damaged by patents. Jun 08 21:58
yuhong Stripping down Linux is another alternative and probably much better. Jun 08 21:59
tacone yuhong: the entire world is damaged by patents, of any type. sw and not-sw. medical patents, for example. oe hardware patents (see the keyboard issue of OLPC) Jun 08 22:00
yuhong Yep, and I know that, that is why reform is so important. Jun 08 22:00
tacone yuhong: much better ? you can live without mp3 but not without a gui. the problem is more wide, there are not only no-nonsense patents. never heard of jpeg-on-website patent ? Jun 08 22:01
yuhong Yea, I know about the Forgent Networks patent, and big thanks to PUBPAT for fighting patent. Jun 08 22:02
tacone I am not optimistic about the chance of a reform. it won’t happen imho. Jun 08 22:02
yuhong Unfortunately, the bill that was passing through the US Congress had a flaw related to third party reexamination, so… Jun 08 22:03
tacone yuhong: I was referring to jpeg-on-website not jpeg itself Jun 08 22:09
*benJIman wonders why the rss feed doesn’t include the whole story. Makes it a lot less likely for me to read a whole article. Jun 08 22:20
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yuhong BTW, it isn’t just MS that is evil, there are many corporations in the world that are evil. Jun 08 23:09
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chocolateanus good day! Jun 08 23:27
chocolateanus schestowitz, wonderful website! Jun 08 23:28
chocolateanus schestowitz, [H]omer arebenti benJIman cozub Eruaran logger_bot moparx tessier tessier_ yuhong zoobab Jun 08 23:34
chocolateanus [Obscene stuff censored]
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balzac hello Jun 08 23:58
balzac I just read about Mark Shuttleworth licensing proprietary software from Microsoft. Jun 08 23:58
balzac That really makes it clear that Mark Shuttleworth is not serious and I should be looking for another distro. Jun 08 23:58
moparx hey Jun 08 23:59
balzac hi moparx Jun 08 23:59
balzac Gnewsense or Debian – that’s what I’m thinking about now… Jun 09 00:00
moparx let the deciding begin :) Jun 09 00:01
balzac well, I’m mulling it over. I really like aptitude. Jun 09 00:02
balzac I don’t like the idea of being downstream of some project I don’t really have full confidence in. Jun 09 00:02
balzac I don’t yet know the implications of Ubuntu being downstream of debian or of Gnewsense being downstream of Ubuntu. Jun 09 00:03
balzac I want to get rid of any proprietary blobs Jun 09 00:04
balzac I’ve compared the proprietary blobs in the Linux Kernel to a case of the measles. Jun 09 00:04
balzac what are you using, moparx? Jun 09 00:04
moparx I run arch linux & slackware right now. going to put together a debian machine soon Jun 09 00:05
balzac I’m not happy when someone serves up proprietary crap in my distro’s repository. Jun 09 00:07
balzac It reminds me of when I order turkey bacon or turkey sausage and then I get paranoid I’m getting real bacon or real sausage. Jun 09 00:08
balzac I don’t like being paranoid about my restaurants, nor about my linux distro. Jun 09 00:08
moparx *nod* Jun 09 00:08
balzac I wonder if debian keeps their repositories clean. Jun 09 00:09
balzac I think RMS is using Gnewsense, which is a cleaned-up, derivative of ubuntu. Jun 09 00:10
moparx he is if I recall correctly Jun 09 00:10
balzac but I don’t like being downstream of some distro I don’t have full confidence. Jun 09 00:10
moparx http://www.gnu.org/links/link… Jun 09 00:11
balzac It’s like eating vegetables chopped on the same cutting board which had pork on it a minute ago and you get pork juices on your veggies. Jun 09 00:11
balzac thanks Jun 09 00:12
moparx no problem :) Jun 09 00:12
balzac I guess he was favoring Utotu before. Jun 09 00:12
moparx It is a shame that the list on that page is so small Jun 09 00:16
balzac I’m still getting data off of my last windows box so I can delete it. Jun 09 00:16
balzac I’ve been inspired by RMS to get rid of all non-free software and not to have contact with it except for during an emergency. Jun 09 00:17
balzac I’m going to get an open moko phone too, when new ones are available. Jun 09 00:17
balzac Yeah, it’s a shame the FSF budget is so low as well. Jun 09 00:17
moparx I’d love to have an open moko myself Jun 09 00:18
balzac It’s not easy for me as a web developer. Jun 09 00:18
balzac I’m checking my websites with a remote desktop session to a windows machine. I’m not direction “using” windows or IE. Jun 09 00:18
balzac But I have to get my style sheets working right. Jun 09 00:18
moparx *nod* Jun 09 00:19
balzac Technically, I’m downloading images of a windows session and sending clicks back. Jun 09 00:19
balzac the RDC connection is kind of like a condom which keeps me from direct contact with windows. Jun 09 00:19
balzac But I’d really like to not have to do that. Jun 09 00:20
balzac I can ask my friends to do what must be done with proprietary software, but it seems kind of hypocritical. Jun 09 00:20
balzac I have friends who develop flash and I’m glad we can do contracts which require it but I won’t touch flash anymore. Jun 09 00:21
balzac I gave up photoshop, flash, dreamweaver, and all proprietary games. No more Halo on the Xbox. Jun 09 00:21
balzac It’s going to feel damned good to be rid of the last proprietary software in my life. Jun 09 00:23
moparx you should play tremulous. it is a great open source multiplayer game :) Jun 09 00:23
balzac it’s built in blender? Jun 09 00:24
moparx nah Jun 09 00:24
balzac I’ll try it out. I probably need a faster computer. I can barely play alien arena. Jun 09 00:25
moparx ah Jun 09 00:25
*[H]omer has quit (“Leaving”) Jun 09 00:48
*moparx yawns Jun 09 00:56
*tessier drops a prawn down moparx’s gaping maw Jun 09 00:57
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  1. Dan O'Brian said,

    June 9, 2008 at 6:12 am


    balzac hello
    balzac I just read about Mark Shuttleworth licensing proprietary software from Microsoft.
    balzac That really makes it clear that Mark Shuttleworth is not serious and I should be looking for another distro.

    balzac Gnewsense or Debian – that’s what I’m thinking about now…
    moparx let the deciding begin :)
    balzac well, I’m mulling it over. I really like aptitude.

    Oh good gods. The sheep-minded thinking of your followers is astounding.

    You’ve got them well-trained in not thinking for themselves and listening to your word as law, Schestowitz… I’ll give you that. Bravo. You are now officially a cult leader.

  2. Roy Schestowitz said,

    June 9, 2008 at 7:23 am


    “Cult” is a term with religious connotations (and a negative one too, which makes it a slur). I am not a religious person. I’m an engineer.

  3. Nah said,

    June 9, 2008 at 4:30 pm


    Engineers are people who’ve actually graduated – you’re just a clueless little child.

  4. Vadim P. said,

    July 1, 2008 at 1:57 pm


    Dan O’Brian, spot on.

    And hey, cult leaders do have day jobs too to make a living!

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