IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 19th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:09 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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PetoKraus http://www.spreadfirefox.com/en… Jun 19 07:02
PetoKraus wheeee Jun 19 07:03
schestowitz I downloaded it, but not run it yet. I have to resolve some stuff. Jun 19 07:07
PetoKraus i downloaded it only Jun 19 07:07
PetoKraus i don’t even intend to use it/compile it Jun 19 07:07
schestowitz To /dev/null/? Jun 19 07:08
PetoKraus not until it goes into stable portage tree :) Jun 19 07:08
schestowitz Well, it’s the thing with repos. We’re spoiled. :-) Linux users get their software down the tube. Jun 19 07:08
PetoKraus i don’t see a problem with that. Jun 19 07:09
PetoKraus though MANY users whacked their system using third-party installs…. Jun 19 07:09
schestowitz Really? How so? And BTW, some opportunists are already reporting a flaw (as if they only ‘just’ found it). Timing for sabotage and hype, of course. Jun 19 07:13
PetoKraus well, especially on deb-based systems, on your custom-compiled or untarred packages Jun 19 07:18
PetoKraus apt-get tends to overwrite files without notice. Jun 19 07:19
schestowitz A couple of years ago, in a conference called Toorcoon (or something like that) a guy lied to the press about Firefox security. It did a lot of damage. Later it turned out that  the conference was sponsored by Microsoft. Jun 19 07:23
PetoKraus right, should restart my X’s after some updates, brb Jun 19 07:34
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schestowitz Does it work? Jun 19 07:35
PetoKraus yes Jun 19 07:35
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schestowitz Performance? I wonder if OpenSUSE comes with 2.0.x. I suppose I could check. What were Ubuntu’s developers thinking when they put a beta in an LTS. With altered schedules from Mozilla, they should have delayed or gone back to 2. Jun 19 07:38
kentm1 You dont’ like Firefox 3? Jun 19 07:40
schestowitz I haven’t used it yet. You? Jun 19 07:41
schestowitz It’s just that OpenSUSE 11.0 is out today (just a couple of days after FF3 final). Jun 19 07:42
kentm1 Me, yes, I do rather like it, all in all.  It seems quicker to load and more responsive generally that FF2, although the extensions haven’t caught up yet. Jun 19 07:43
schestowitz That’s just why I don’t use it yet. Memory and speed are important (esp. on my antiquated PCs), but the extensions save a lot of time, too. Jun 19 07:44
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kentm2 If you’re very dependent on particular extentions, I’d stick with FF2 until there are updates for FF3 available – it’s good, but not worth leaving your toolkit behind for. Jun 19 07:46
schestowitz I think of it as tool_box_ :-) Same with Konqueror. Jun 19 07:47
kentm2 Quite! Jun 19 07:51
PetoKraus :) extensions… Jun 19 07:52
PetoKraus i learned to live without them, kind of. Jun 19 07:52
PetoKraus the only feature i was using quite extensively was… rss reader in FFx Jun 19 07:53
PetoKraus but Liferea is much much better. Jun 19 07:53
schestowitz Yes, I use Thunderbird now. RSSOwl development has been slow. Jun 19 07:54
kentm2 I’m on evolution for mail, as it has an outlook connector capability which is useful for $employer, as well as imap & pop.  In theory it can do usenet, but I’ve not been able to get that working satisfactorily yet. Jun 19 07:55
PetoKraus heh. Evolution is a bit big for my needs. I tended to use it’s calendar, but it had quite huge memory leaks. So, I switched to Sunbird Jun 19 07:56
PetoKraus (which is the calendar only) Jun 19 07:56
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kentm2 It’s huge, I agree, but I needed the outlook integration, so it does the job for me. Jun 19 07:57
kentm2 I can also sync with scheduleworld and then onto my motorola phone, which is also useful – I travel about an enormous amount! Jun 19 07:58
schestowitz Earlier today I saw a new video about people’s face integrated in Evolution. Jun 19 07:58
kentm2 not physically, I hope :-) Jun 19 07:58
schestowitz Novell will accept Mono extensions to it on the face of it. It could get tained. Jun 19 07:58
kentm2 that would be bad indeed. Jun 19 07:58
schestowitz But it was discussed before. The Mono developers deny it all. Jun 19 07:59
schestowitz The trouble is that they get more and more people ‘addicted’ to Mono software. Jun 19 07:59
schestowitz Only Novell offers its /paying/ customer ‘protection’ for use of Mono. Jun 19 07:59
kentm2 it’s a nasty scam, I agree Jun 19 08:00
schestowitz I’ve just been thinking.. randomly because I glanced at something. Jun 19 08:01
schestowitz There are so many Microsoft ‘former’ employees taking over the OSS world. Jun 19 08:01
schestowitz OpenLogic, Black Duck, Stephen Walli and his software patent from Microsoft days… it’s an abomination and too many people are blind to it Jun 19 08:02
kentm2 We must have faith in the GPL, my son … Jun 19 08:02
schestowitz .I posted a pointer to LXer about it and some agree with me totally given the evidence that I shared. Then there’s this other ‘breed’ of insiders who are not former Softies, but are Microsoft partners in many ways. Ximian for starters. Jun 19 08:02
schestowitz That’s the issue, you see. Jun 19 08:03
kentm2 I agree, although I think it’s way too late to stop GPLed software, now.  The question really is about how businesses rearrange their business models in order to survive in the GPLed world. Jun 19 08:03
schestowitz People like Walli and other Microsoft ‘insiders’ discourage OSS companies when they want to pick GPLv3 for all I can tell. They befriend the ‘community’ and then have it misguided. Jun 19 08:03
schestowitz I know this because I’ve seen it, received reports and wrote about it. Jun 19 08:04
kentm2 Abuse of the patent system is clearly a part of the new model for many companies! Jun 19 08:04
schestowitz Well, it’s a crime for all I can tell in the sense that people change the law (illegally) so that they can then call ‘us’ criminals. Jun 19 08:04
kentm2 GPLv3 is very very good overall, but it’s hitting a second set of doubters. even in the foss community.  You’ll recall how out of control some people became even in Cola (spike  & peter k both spring to mind) Jun 19 08:05
schestowitz Imagine this: the law forbids you from cheating (e.g. briibing for ISO rubber stamps), so you then corrupt the whole system to the point where you can squeeze in something GPL-hostile and essentially build fences around a broken syste, Jun 19 08:05
schestowitz Speaking of which, ISO was sort of captured by Microsoft, you know? Key people fled. Jun 19 08:05
schestowitz Same thing in Yahoo at the moment. Microsoft is — to put it bluntly — like some sort of disease that expels the healthy tissue and replaces it with an aliment. Jun 19 08:06
schestowitz Look at Novell. Jun 19 08:06
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schestowitz Samba left… Jun 19 08:06
schestowitz Who came? Novell is hiring .NET developers. It’s like transformation/reformation in progress. Jun 19 08:06
kentma I hope Neelie Kroes doesn’t retire too soon! Jun 19 08:07
schestowitz Novell becomes a host or servant of Microsoft’s needs. It’s a Trust(R), just like with Xen and Citrix. Jun 19 08:07
schestowitz She can be replaced. Jun 19 08:07
schestowitz To be honest with you, she doesn’t seem to understand technical issues (she deals with a diversity of problems, so I can’t blame here) Jun 19 08:07
kentma I’m not sure that the EU is so infiltrated by US companies as the US government and legal system seems to be. Jun 19 08:08
schestowitz She fell for the swpatent/RAND scam not so long ago. Jun 19 08:08
kentma True, but she *does* seem to understand lock-in, now, so I think that she’s been educated.  When I first started travelling the world, talking about vendor lock-in, about 3-4 years ago, nobody seemed to know what I was talking about.  Now, everyone’s talking about it – so we really can make progress if we keep highlight the *facts*. Jun 19 08:09
schestowitz She let Microsoft take advantage of her misunderstanding and I sometimes think she cannot distinguish Free software from open standards. Again, to her credit, she deals with quite a few different fields, so it’s fair enough. She handles lots of telecom problems. Jun 19 08:09
kentma Unfortunately, she didn’t see that one coming.  One of my major problems with rand is that the name is highly misleading – it’s anything but reasonable, and it most certainly is discriminatory, at least against foss, anyway.  This is about education, of course, but she does seem to be learning more and more! Jun 19 08:12
schestowitz Okay, here is what I know… Jun 19 08:12
schestowitz I wrote about this at the time and I think she was told about the mistake by her advisors. When she made the agreement with Ballmer she was alone, so she probably didn’t recognise the fact that she gave swpats the nod in a continent that bans them! It’s like a gradual introduction/expansion, you see? I think that Homer explained pretty well why RAND ain’t reasonably at all. Jun 19 08:13
schestowitz Reasonable = Genuine = Secure = Advantage… all just misleading memes. Jun 19 08:14
schestowitz ‘Protect’ the ‘inventor’… inter-operabiility (whatever happened to standards?) Jun 19 08:14
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kentma okay, I’ve put some permanent routes in, so it should stop switching outbound adsl lines now… Jun 19 08:36
kentma I hope. Jun 19 08:36
schestowitz When IRC was conceived, it probably assumed one ISP per person, per session. :-) Jun 19 08:38
kentma yeah, I know.  I find the same thing with a lot of p2p services, they really struggle with me having two dsl lines, and therefore two IP addresses. Jun 19 08:39
kentma I really must write a better script or even a babygramme to set up the routing profiles, though, it’s just a very very long bash script at the moment, it’s crying out for at least an array! Jun 19 08:39
*kentma off, back soon. Jun 19 08:41
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schestowitz This one is stoopid [sic]: http://www.itwire.com/conten… Microsoft has a miniscule market share of about 1% in this area, yet the writer covers the story by focusing on Windows. Jun 19 11:06
schestowitz And then there’s the old anti-iPhone FUD from Partner Group: http://www.itwire.com/conte… (like Windows Mobile, which is confirmed to have a back door, is any ‘safer’) Jun 19 11:08
schestowitz New blog post from  de Icaza: http://tirania.org/blog/a… Headline is: “Hanging out at Microsoft” Jun 19 11:09
kentma perhaps he’ll stay? Jun 19 11:48
kentma I mean remain, of course. Jun 19 11:49
schestowitz He’s harmful to FOSS no matter who pays the check. Jun 19 11:49
kentma agreed, but he’d lose some more air-cover if he remained. Jun 19 11:50
schestowitz me off to the gym Jun 19 11:51
kentma enjoy! Jun 19 11:51
schestowitz Be back in a few hours. Jun 19 11:51
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taq dudes, morning Jun 19 13:24
taq are you awake? :-) Jun 19 13:28
taq schestowitz ? Jun 19 13:35
[H]omer He’s at the gym (see above) Jun 19 14:07
[H]omer Also, I’m not here either :) Jun 19 14:07
taq Oh. :-) Jun 19 14:07
[H]omer ;) Jun 19 14:07
taq I’m curious if Row saw this: http://tinyurl.com/5dxsl9 Jun 19 14:08
[H]omer Doesn’t surprise me. De Icaza is practically a Microsoft employee these days Jun 19 14:09
taq Yeah, maybe now we can face him this way finally. Jun 19 14:09
[H]omer Actually most people already do. Jun 19 14:09
taq the worst thing on this history is some people call him “Free Software friend” Jun 19 14:09
taq maybe now everything goes to a clear way. it’s more honest. Jun 19 14:10
Eruaran Hello Jun 19 14:11
Eruaran I have those dialogues Jun 19 14:11
taq what dialogues? Jun 19 14:12
Eruaran Examples of how Office 2007 treats open documents Jun 19 14:12
[H]omer Check this old article: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microso… Jun 19 14:13
[H]omer Nice photo Jun 19 14:13
[H]omer Or this: http://port25.technet.com/archive/2… Jun 19 14:14
taq Oh, I thought it was the icaza dialogues on m$ today. :-) Jun 19 14:15
[H]omer Yup, Miguel loves the Vole. No question. Jun 19 14:17
Eruaran What some would call a ‘useful idiot’ Jun 19 14:18
Eruaran Useful to Microsoft Jun 19 14:19
taq Will be a relief if he finally will work there or m$ buy novell. At least a clear situation. Jun 19 14:20
Eruaran ‘what Microsoft were saying resonated very deeply with us’ *shudder* Jun 19 14:20
Eruaran true Jun 19 14:20
Eruaran I’m not sure Microsoft will ‘buy’ Novell Jun 19 14:21
Eruaran Novell is pretty useful as it is Jun 19 14:21
Eruaran It would be less useful to Microsoft if Novell was officially a subsidiary Jun 19 14:22
taq same thing for icaza, while he stands for “free software friend” Jun 19 14:22
taq but I think there is a point of saturation Jun 19 14:22
taq where will be better make a clear game Jun 19 14:23
[H]omer This is probably the most sickening boot licking de Icaza’s ever done: http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Charle… Jun 19 14:26
[H]omer Page says you “need Silverlight” to view the content Jun 19 14:27
[H]omer Rubbish Jun 19 14:27
[H]omer Try this with VLC: mms://mschnlnine.wmod.llnwd.net/a1809/d Jun 19 14:27
Eruaran I heard today that people may need Silverlight if they want to watch the Olympics online Jun 19 14:27
[H]omer Yes, the disease of Silverlight is starting to spread Jun 19 14:28
Eruaran I think that picture of Icaza with “Install Microsoft Silverlight” plastered across it says it all. Jun 19 14:29
[H]omer Yup Jun 19 14:30
Eruaran Looks to me like a two pronged strategy Jun 19 14:30
Eruaran Either a) Freeze users of free software like GNU/Linux out of multimedia on the web, or b) Get them dependant upon a patent bomb Jun 19 14:32
[H]omer This one makes me laugh: http://primates.ximian.com/~mi… Jun 19 14:32
[H]omer “At Microsoft I learned the truth about ActiveX and COM and I got very interested in it inmediately(sic)” Jun 19 14:32
[H]omer Yeah, I bet. Jun 19 14:33
Eruaran I find it diffucult to believe this guy is not actually on Ballmers payroll Jun 19 14:34
taq he’s for years but does not have the gut to admit it Jun 19 14:35
taq right now I bet he’s trying to kiss ballmer there Jun 19 14:36
Eruaran LOL I can’t even sign up to comment on that site without a “Windows Live ID” Jun 19 14:36
Eruaran sheesh Jun 19 14:36
Eruaran Because multimedia is more or less not an issue on Linux anymore, I think Microsoft wants to either make it an issue again, or infect the community with a dependance on Microsoft plugins. Jun 19 14:37
Eruaran Over which there are legal questions. Jun 19 14:37
Eruaran I’m sure Ballmer thinks, “perfect” Jun 19 14:38
Eruaran And the masses are stupid enough to fall for it. Jun 19 14:38
kentma Well, maybe not so much stupid, but ignorant. Jun 19 14:45
Eruaran Well you know the corny line Jun 19 14:50
Eruaran fool me once, shame on you Jun 19 14:50
Eruaran fool me twice, shame on me Jun 19 14:50
Eruaran or something like that Jun 19 14:50
kentma Ignornance is one of those herd things, isn’t it?  There’s quite an anti-education culture here amongst the mainstream. Jun 19 14:51
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Eruaran Icaza reminds me of Anakin Skywalker Jun 19 14:58
kentma What, sort of stupid? Jun 19 14:58
Eruaran lol Jun 19 14:58
kentma Bill G:  “Miguel, I am your father!” Jun 19 14:58
Eruaran What Obi Wan says to him rings true, “you have allowed this dark lord to twist your mind until you have become part of the very thing you swore to destroy” Jun 19 14:59
Eruaran I think the “part of” bit is wrong Jun 19 14:59
kentma hehe Jun 19 14:59
Eruaran Its true though, you read his gnome history and him going on about how Qt was non-free and the attitude of KDE devs at the time not seeming to care Jun 19 15:00
Eruaran Him going on about free software Jun 19 15:00
Eruaran And now look at him, Mr “Install Microsoft Silverlight”. Jun 19 15:01
kentma He’s clearly shifted his position.  It’s a shame that people are so easily bought. Jun 19 15:01
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Eruaran He could, and would argue his projects are still free… but he knows they are really patent encumbered non-free frankensteins, and licenced only through Microvell. Jun 19 15:04
kentma He’s not stupid, he knows very well what he’s done.  I don’t know how such people sleep at night. Jun 19 15:06
Eruaran Me neither. Jun 19 15:07
schestowitz <Eruaran>, I’m back now. Thanks for taking the screenshoits. Jun 19 15:37
schestowitz The item about it made the blogroll of he OOo guys, so it’s not too late to add a nice picture that says it all (like “Install Microsoft Silverlight”.) Jun 19 15:38
schestowitz Oh my god! Jun 19 15:41
schestowitz Just found something spooky,. Jun 19 15:48
Eruaran Do you want me to send those files to you ? Jun 19 15:50
*Eruaran has offered Dialogue1.png (12145 bytes) Jun 19 15:50
*Eruaran has offered Dialogue2.png (11752 bytes) Jun 19 15:50
*Eruaran has offered Dialogue3.png (12871 bytes) Jun 19 15:50
Eruaran 3 dialogues Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV connection established to Eruaran [] Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV Dialogue3.png from Eruaran complete [6435 cps]. Jun 19 15:51
Eruaran numbered in order of appearance Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV connection established to Eruaran [] Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV Dialogue2.png from Eruaran complete [5876 cps]. Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV connection established to Eruaran [] Jun 19 15:51
*DCC RECV Dialogue1.png from Eruaran complete [12145 cps]. Jun 19 15:51
Eruaran The first one is what comes up if you try to open an .odt in MS Word 2007 (after I clicked ‘details’) Jun 19 15:52
schestowitz Thanks! Jun 19 15:52
Eruaran no problem Jun 19 15:52
Eruaran so, you click ok and you get the second one Jun 19 15:53
schestowitz And the third…? Jun 19 15:53
Eruaran so, you click ‘yes’ to ‘recover the contents’ of this document and you get the third Jun 19 15:53
Eruaran third shows after I clicked ‘details’ Jun 19 15:54
Eruaran click ‘ok’ and thats it Jun 19 15:54
schestowitz “the file is corrupt,” eh? The last time I checked it’s Microsoft that corrupted Swedish folks for OOXML. Jun 19 15:55
Eruaran try to open the same document back in OOo or KOffice and its perfect Jun 19 15:55
schestowitz I’m blogging this now and will link to it, being an update to the previous post. Jun 19 15:58
Eruaran “Microsoft Office cannot open this file because some parts are missing or invalid” ~translation~ “Microsoft Office could open this file but wont because some parts are missing (you know, those binary blobs that keep you dependant upon us), so we’ve decided your choice of file formats is invalid”. Jun 19 15:58
schestowitz For the public record, I also want t post here what was sent to me (and also to PJ) anonymously. Jun 19 16:00
Eruaran ok Jun 19 16:01
schestowitz Oh S*. Jun 19 16:01
schestowitz I’m finding out more now. Jun 19 16:01
schestowitz Do you know Gary Edwards? Jun 19 16:01
schestowitz I need to find out if he wife is called Olivia Edwards. Jun 19 16:02
Eruaran Not familiar with that name Jun 19 16:02
schestowitz OpenDocument Foundation. Jun 19 16:04
schestowitz If we can show that it’s indeed his wife (this name registered a domain under his name), then we show a strong link to Microsoft (Gold Partner). Jun 19 16:05
Eruaran :/ Jun 19 16:07
schestowitz I want to at least have this discussion to avoid posting a defamatory post (and Groklaw could beat us to it). Jun 19 16:08
schestowitz Also, bear in mind that on several occasions in the past I claimed a possible link between these two. Then we have others to worry about, like Patrick D who was perhaps pampered in his visit to Redmond. Jun 19 16:09
Eruaran Is Edwards the guy who has been fudding from within ? Jun 19 16:10
Eruaran (or am I thinking of someone from OASIS) Jun 19 16:11
schestowitz Yes, do a Google on him. Jun 19 16:11
schestowitz Him and marbux too, to an extent, but sometimes it seemed well intended. There was a point of a 360, just like Patrick…. as though they came different people overnight. PJ called marbux an “MS agent” at one stage. Jun 19 16:12
Eruaran hmm Jun 19 16:13
schestowitz If I send you the mails, can you help me research this? I’m a tad pressured, time-wise. Jun 19 16:14
Eruaran ok Jun 19 16:15
Eruaran I can look into it Jun 19 16:15
moparx ugh. I slept in.. Jun 19 16:17
moparx how’s it going everyone? Jun 19 16:17
schestowitz What address? Jun 19 16:17
Eruaran not bad moparx, howr u Jun 19 16:17
moparx pretty good so far Jun 19 16:17
schestowitz <moparx>, we may have found something significant, but we need to validate Jun 19 16:17
Eruaran I’ll give you one Jun 19 16:17
kentma moparx: what tz are you? Jun 19 16:17
moparx EDT Jun 19 16:18
schestowitz Sent. Jun 19 16:20
kentma EDT Is BST-5? Jun 19 16:20
kentma hmm, you must’ve had a good kip! Jun 19 16:20
Eruaran received Jun 19 16:21
schestowitz What I have doubts about: Is Olivia associated with the company in whois? Is it really his wife or a surname collision (it’s a common one). Jun 19 16:22
Eruaran that looks highly suspicious Jun 19 16:25
schestowitz Just posted your screenshots by the way (front page, pointers in both direction). Jun 19 16:27
schestowitz *directions Jun 19 16:28
Eruaran cool Jun 19 16:28
Eruaran Its not like its news or anything but I think its worth drawing attention to Microsoft’s recycling of old strategies Jun 19 16:29
schestowitz Foir background: marbux is somewhat multi-nymous. This raised suspicions before. I spoke to Gary who seems to be trying to deter ODF advocates, but I really don’t know… Jun 19 16:29
schestowitz Do you think that “Registrant Organization:TransNet.com” refers to the wife’s job? Jun 19 16:29
kentma There seems to be a huge number of Olivia Edwards about Jun 19 16:29
kentma Or maybe just the company which did the registration for them? Jun 19 16:30
schestowitz Or is the affiliation to do with the company that’s hosting or offering registartion services? Jun 19 16:30
schestowitz You beat me to it, <kentma> Jun 19 16:30
kentma hehe Jun 19 16:30
schestowitz That’s what I said in reply to the E-mails: “I haven’t looked at this closely yet, but doesn’t that just mean that he registered it with an MS-affiliated host. One of my older hosts become MS Gold-certified days ago (*choke choke*). As for Gary, he and marbux started this. I know because they told me.  I’ll look deeper now, but be careful. Don’t just the gun yet. “ Jun 19 16:31
schestowitz *jump *became Jun 19 16:31
schestowitz At one stage, Gary came to Digg pulling the “paranoid” meme against me. Sort of like a discrediting attempt. But others whom I know felt bad for him because of his background, which is pro-FOSS. But the question here is different: are some people /selling out/ and defecting? That’s the Q I’m trying to answer. Jun 19 16:33
schestowitz Look at Miguel “Qt was closed, I made GNOME, Silverlight is cool” de Icaza. Jun 19 16:34
Eruaran yes Jun 19 16:34
schestowitz Unrelated: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-… Jun 19 16:36
schestowitz <kentma>, do you want a copy of what whois returns? Jun 19 16:37
Eruaran gtg its late here Jun 19 16:43
Eruaran nite all Jun 19 16:43
schestowitz See you  later. Jun 19 16:43
schestowitz I can’t figure out if this company would register domains: kentma> hehe Jun 19 16:47
schestowitz < Jun 19 16:47
schestowitz Oops. Wrong paste. Should be: http://www.transnet.com/abo… Jun 19 16:48
*kentma says sorry was on the phone – got to take kids to dentist soon. Jun 19 17:07
kentma doesn’t look like they would do ip addresses to me.  They seem to be a purveyor of voip boxes. Jun 19 17:12
schestowitz So do you think this address refers to the person’s organisation (Olivia)? Jun 19 17:16
schestowitz I did a test on the same whos tool as above for another domain. It didn’t help me find out what that field stands for. Nothing about this in GL yet ( http://www.groklaw.net/ ). Just checked. Jun 19 17:17
kentma I really don’t know… Jun 19 17:19
schestowitz I did a search on this domain for Edwards. No results returned. Jun 19 17:19
schestowitz It is difficult to conclude much from this unless it was confirmed that she works there. I know for a fact that she helped Gary set up the garage for work, so her doing a domain registration would not be surprising. They registered the domain as they said they would when their OASIS members (or equiv.) ran out. Jun 19 17:21
schestowitz *membership. Jun 19 17:21
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schestowitz The headhunter starts blogging *shudder* tm Jun 19 17:30
schestowitz http://www.webpronews.com/topne… Jun 19 17:31
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… Was the OpenDocument Foundation a Pressure Group for Microsoft? Jun 19 18:05
schestowitz t’s beginning to seem as though the wife of the founder  of the “OpenDocument Foundation” is a Microsoft Gold-Certified Partner. Follow the money? Jun 19 18:06
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PetoKraus http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page… Jun 19 20:04
*schestowitz looks Jun 19 20:06
schestowitz I like her more than I like Tux. I sort of knew about this in advance. Jun 19 20:06
PetoKraus it’s good. Jun 19 20:13
schestowitz There better news yet to come from ATI and NVIDIA. The Free desktop is doing well (bar issues like Novellisation, Microsoft hijacking OSS, OOXML/Silverlight poison pills, etc.) Jun 19 20:15
*maxstirner has quit (“Leaving”) Jun 19 21:10
*moparx has quit (“leaving”) Jun 19 21:12
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 19 21:24
*RogerBacon (i=RogerBac@bas3-sherbrooke40-1177838677.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 19 22:29
RogerBacon go download opensuse 11 ! Jun 19 22:29
RogerBacon oh, wait … Jun 19 22:29
PetoKraus well, just for the fun of it Jun 19 22:29
RogerBacon it’s too unstable for me Jun 19 22:30
RogerBacon (long time debian user) Jun 19 22:30
RogerBacon since version 3 with debian Jun 19 22:30
RogerBacon :P Jun 19 22:30
PetoKraus well Jun 19 22:31
PetoKraus debian is too unstable for ME Jun 19 22:31
*PetoKraus runs gentoo Jun 19 22:31
PetoKraus i tend to have perverted ideas, such as Jun 19 22:31
RogerBacon i will give it a try anyway Jun 19 22:31
PetoKraus customizing my system. Deb-based systems don’t like to be customized. They overwrite your customization with every dist-upgrade Jun 19 22:32
PetoKraus http://reisio.com/temp/suse_tongue.png Jun 19 22:33
RogerBacon im sure its still better than fedora core 9 Jun 19 22:34
schestowitz Someone once mailed me a pile of OpenSUSE 10.2 DVDs. It’s an anonymous reader of BN.com, who didn’t identify himself. Jun 19 22:35
RogerBacon nice Jun 19 22:36
PetoKraus such a nice and useful present Jun 19 22:36
RogerBacon maybe i should start to hate microsoft Jun 19 22:36
RogerBacon to have a bunch of windows server 2008 in my mail box :D Jun 19 22:36
schestowitz Well, I never used them or handed them to anyone. It’s somewhere in the drawers. Jun 19 22:36
RogerBacon honnestly, does anyone know if opensuse is enought reliable for a production server ? Jun 19 22:38
RogerBacon *dev Jun 19 22:38
PetoKraus well Jun 19 22:39
PetoKraus just stick with RHEL Jun 19 22:39
PetoKraus :) Jun 19 22:39
PetoKraus or if it’s mission critical Jun 19 22:39
PetoKraus go for BSD’s Jun 19 22:39
PetoKraus also gentoo with gentoo-hardened kernel could do. Jun 19 22:40
RogerBacon gentoo … how nice to compile some stuff when running a server box Jun 19 22:40
PetoKraus well you don’t need to compile anything once you have it up and running Jun 19 22:41
PetoKraus and if you need to update a package (security reasons) – it’s usually not done on monthly basis (more frequently, therefore less time), and you can run it during low load (that’s what’s cron for) and it won’t overwrite your configs unless you specifically tell it to do so. Jun 19 22:42
RogerBacon ;) Jun 19 22:44
PetoKraus right Jun 19 22:45
RogerBacon the doc seem pretty good Jun 19 22:45
PetoKraus the docs are, i’d say, best on the web Jun 19 22:45
RogerBacon really interrested to try it Jun 19 22:46
PetoKraus the channel is a bit rough sometimes, the forum is quite good, but not all questions are answered there, and the gentoo-wiki is VERY useful source Jun 19 22:46
RogerBacon will give it a try ;) Jun 19 22:46
moparx the gentoo-wiki is great :) Jun 19 22:46
RogerBacon anything good cconcerning gentoo ? Jun 19 22:46
PetoKraus the main thing is, you don’t get these… “copy’n’paste this” solutions Jun 19 22:46
RogerBacon yeah Jun 19 22:47
PetoKraus you actually LEARN why you do what you do. Jun 19 22:47
RogerBacon because everyone have diferent build Jun 19 22:47
PetoKraus anything good? well, it works exactly how you specify it to work. Jun 19 22:47
PetoKraus that means – oh, you didn’t set up automounting of USB’s and MMC’s, what a pity, i won’t mount it for you :/ Jun 19 22:48
PetoKraus and it costs you a week to find all the USE flags you forgot to put in… Jun 19 22:48
RogerBacon flags are build option, righjt Jun 19 22:49
PetoKraus it’s most probably not worth the hassle. Though you learn a lot and you are able to fix stuff faster. Jun 19 22:49
RogerBacon im sorry to ask this dumb question but never tryed it before Jun 19 22:49
PetoKraus yes, it’s like, oh, i won’t need to open jpg files on my machine, so, i won’t compile anything with jpg support Jun 19 22:50
RogerBacon emerge is good or not ? Jun 19 22:50
PetoKraus http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ha… Jun 19 22:50
PetoKraus emerge is slow. not in terms of compiling speed, but the app itself is terribly slow Jun 19 22:51
RogerBacon okay Jun 19 22:51
RogerBacon will read the doc before weekend Jun 19 22:51
RogerBacon ;) Jun 19 22:51
RogerBacon how about hardware Jun 19 22:52
RogerBacon ? Jun 19 22:52
PetoKraus it’s written in python, but, from what i’ve heard from several (ex)developers and gentoo users, the code is mess, so no one wants to touch it. It’s like kernel – full of “don’t fuck with this line” comments Jun 19 22:52
PetoKraus well, you SHOULD compile your kernel during installation. So, everything works :P Jun 19 22:52
RogerBacon *everything supported by the kernel itself Jun 19 22:53
RogerBacon corrected it for you ;) Jun 19 22:53
PetoKraus well, yeah :) but on the other hand, wifi’s are always troublesome Jun 19 22:54
PetoKraus depends on the vendor Jun 19 22:54
RogerBacon my house is wired with ethernet cable Jun 19 22:54
RogerBacon not a trouble here Jun 19 22:54
RogerBacon ;) Jun 19 22:54
PetoKraus then everything should work. The only thing which can bugger you is GPU, everything else should be supported by the kernel Jun 19 22:55
PetoKraus right Jun 19 22:56
PetoKraus good night Jun 19 22:56
schestowitz G’night Jun 19 22:58
RogerBacon bye Jun 19 23:03
schestowitz I’m so tired. I just really wanted to unleash some pending post before going to bed. Jun 19 23:06
schestowitz One more and I’m off. Jun 19 23:06
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Jun 19 23:16
*moparx has quit (“leaving”) Jun 19 23:42
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