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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 10th, 2008

moparxheyJun 09 21:50
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dsmith_ok roy, I asked my question regardinf lenovo and freedos being withdrawn, he is going to find out for meJun 09 23:33
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ZiggyFishheyJun 10 03:14
dsmith_hiJun 10 03:20
ZiggyFishthe article in todays links ...Jun 10 03:29
ZiggyFish'Military Supercomputer Sets Record' doesn't mention anything about what OS it's runningJun 10 03:30
ZiggyFishDo you know any more details about itJun 10 03:30
schestowitzThanks, dsmith. ZiggyFish, those Cell clusters typically run Red Hat/.Fedora. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's Linux.Jun 10 03:54
ZiggyFishoh I seeJun 10 03:55
schestowitzVirtualisation taken into account, over 9!% of the world's biggest computers run Linux.Jun 10 03:56
ZiggyFishyou meant 91% I assumeJun 10 03:57
dsmith_yea has to be linuxJun 10 03:57
dsmith_what country?Jun 10 03:57
ZiggyFishdsmith_: us govJun 10 03:57
schestowitzHaha. Oops. My fonts are bad, so I didn't e3ven notice.Jun 10 03:58
dsmith_set what record?Jun 10 03:59
ZiggyFishfastest computerJun 10 03:59
ZiggyFish1 quadrillion flops (floating point operations per secondJun 10 03:59
dsmith_okJun 10 03:59
dsmith_man, my 386 could do that back when... sheeeshJun 10 04:00
dsmith_lolJun 10 04:00
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 04:00
schestowitzWould that run he big animation films in real time, I wonder... if GPU embedded...Jun 10 04:00
schestowitzGPUs I mean. NASA uses a lot of NVIDIA in the clustersJun 10 04:01
ZiggyFishschestowitz: AFAIK it is made up of components from comerical GPUsJun 10 04:01
ZiggyFishdsmith_: it's like having a Peta-Hert computerJun 10 04:02
dsmith_they must have built it to create Wall-E and Kung-Fu Panda, then turned around and sold it ot the GOV, when they got faster machineJun 10 04:03
schestowitzOh. They too by the way use Fedora.Jun 10 04:03
ZiggyFishAlso the computer uses the same arch (x86) as the one your typing on now.Jun 10 04:05
schestowitzSadly, SUSE is getting some presence and room in clusters too. NASA just bought one and there's one running SuSE 8 (or was).Jun 10 04:07
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ZiggyFishthere was a security vulnerability found in IE today.Jun 10 04:15
ZiggyFishMicrosoft Internet Explorer fails to properly follow RFC-2616 and uses content-sniffing to interpret UTF-7 data received in HTTP responses.Jun 10 04:15
ZiggyFish 10 04:15
schestowitz*rolls eyes* IE is mess. I wonder how much its deficiencies have cost the world and how much of this could be avoided.Jun 10 04:16
ZiggyFishAlthough it says that it's a Apache Vulnerability. in the actual description it says, "Additional reports indicate that the default error page has the Content-Type set, rendering it not vulnerable." So the title is misleadingJun 10 04:17
schestowitzThere's always blame-throwing. Hopefully Apache is diplomatic enough to clear this up. Symantec had a similar tiff with Microsoft recently.Jun 10 04:19
ZiggyFishread about thatJun 10 04:19
ZiggyFishlets see how long it takes for Microsoft to fix the exploitJun 10 04:20
schestowitzmMozilal as well, though it goes back months ago.Jun 10 04:20
schestowitzMozilla (typo)Jun 10 04:20
ZiggyFishMozilla Firefox may potentially automatically detect UTF-7 in some situations or configurations as well, ____but this has not been confirmed___.Jun 10 04:21
schestowitzMicrosoft fixes flaws when they get exploited up to a level when it's worth revealing the weakness. No joking. As for Mozilla, they needed to mimic some IE functionality or facilitate Windows-tied API. It's a case where underlying platform mistakes and need for faux 'compatibility' hits counterparts also.Jun 10 04:22
ZiggyFishI just tried it on my version of Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.1 with Suhosin-Patch Server at localhost Port 80 (with mozilla) and it nothing was wrongJun 10 04:23
schestowitzReplication flaws, eh? Sounds like some work. :-)Jun 10 04:24
ZiggyFishI'll just check the it in IE (got to load a a VM)Jun 10 04:24
schestowitzNews: "There's no guarantee that Skype's AES encryption is implemented properly or that there aren't lingering security flaws." (that's why I won't use the Skype blob)Jun 10 04:24
ZiggyFishbrbJun 10 04:27
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ZiggyFishbackJun 10 04:31
schestowitzTesting FF?Jun 10 04:31
ZiggyFishyeah, testing IEJun 10 04:32
schestowitzOn Linux?Jun 10 04:32
ZiggyFish(needed a to reboot in to an old kernel to access my VM (I haven't yet compiled the modules for this new kernel)Jun 10 04:33
schestowitzThat's what I suspected (virtualisation). I'm sure headlines will reveal blame games, assuming there's ambiguity/subjectivity.Jun 10 04:34
schestowitzWhat worries me is Microsoft's approach towards Apache. They want them to deploy on Windows.Jun 10 04:34
dsmith_I deployed FF long agoJun 10 04:35
dsmith_25% of the users ended up sticking with FF when they rolled out IEJun 10 04:35
dsmith_yayJun 10 04:35
schestowitzI remember...Jun 10 04:35
ZiggyFishschestowitz: the thing is it's still slow on windows (even after their modifications)Jun 10 04:35
dsmith_apache should just tell MS to go piss offJun 10 04:35
schestowitzDid you not have the problem at your office where IE was called the industry standard?Jun 10 04:35
dsmith_hahaJun 10 04:36
schestowitzWell, here's the thing. About Apache et al.Jun 10 04:36
dsmith_what standardJun 10 04:36
dsmith_yeaJun 10 04:36
schestowitzMicrosoft uses labels like "Microsoft hater" and "zealot" to dare them to say no to invitations.Jun 10 04:36
dsmith_I hear that crap all the time, industry standardJun 10 04:36
dsmith_I would say noJun 10 04:36
schestowitzSpeaking of which, Asay is still sucking up to Microsoft employees (I see it in the comments of their blogs)Jun 10 04:36
dsmith_f emJun 10 04:36
schestowitzIE is about /ignoring/ industry standards.Jun 10 04:37
ZiggyFishthe expoit works in IEJun 10 04:37
ZiggyFishbut not in FFJun 10 04:37
dsmith_what does apache need from MS?Jun 10 04:37
schestowitzCool.Jun 10 04:37
schestowitzWell, here's the thing.Jun 10 04:37
dsmith_I have done both just to see how hard/easy it wasJun 10 04:37
dsmith_same with tomcatJun 10 04:37
schestowitzAs I understand it, Microsoft invited various teams (Apache is just one) to live on its blood supply for a while and 'optimise' for win32Jun 10 04:38
ZiggyFishschestowitz: also it's PHP that's trying to work with IISJun 10 04:38
schestowitzHa!Jun 10 04:38
dsmith_bloood supply?Jun 10 04:38
schestowitzYes, Zend is a bugger.Jun 10 04:38
dsmith_ppl need to get it thru thier brains that MS is no goodJun 10 04:39
schestowitzThat Guttman guy (II the name correctly) is not only working with them, but he also sort of invited other to fall in love with Microsoft.Jun 10 04:39
ZiggyFishschestowitz: I know that VM work better on Linux then on windowsJun 10 04:39
schestowitzThat too it a major problem. Often you see Microsoft exploiting these relationships to expand them further.Jun 10 04:39
dsmith_ppl will sell out for anythingJun 10 04:39
schestowitzHypervisors too is something Microsoft applies these tactics to.Jun 10 04:40
ZiggyFishschestowitz: there was an expoit a comple of days ago (something to do with safery and IE)Jun 10 04:40
ZiggyFish*coupleJun 10 04:40
ZiggyFishlet me find a linkJun 10 04:40
schestowitzXen being an example,. Based in Redmond after a Microsoft deal, then acquired.Jun 10 04:40
schestowitzdsmith: Microsoft is exploiting some people's weakness for money.Jun 10 04:40
schestowitzJust watch the Novell deal. It had financial issued and it then met Microsoft.Jun 10 04:41
schestowitzIt's Novell that actually ran to Microsoft and ended up abused (like a partner begging for the g/f or b/f to come back after a breakup).Jun 10 04:42
dsmith_hahaaJun 10 04:43
dsmith_the novell openoffice xml converter works nicelyJun 10 04:44
dsmith_I ws messing with it the other dayJun 10 04:44
dsmith_going back and forthJun 10 04:44
dsmith_docx -odf - docxJun 10 04:44
schestowitzThere's hope though. If Microsoft goes into debt (if it buys Yahoo for example), then it'll be a push.Jun 10 04:44
dsmith_I just think MS wastes too much $ and human resources on frivilous issues, it isn't just them anymoreJun 10 04:45
schestowitzIt won't work in complex situation and OOo (or ODF-based software) will be blamed for being 'bad'.Jun 10 04:45
schestowitzMoreover, it's written in C#, so guess what it says about dependencies (although I haven't checked)Jun 10 04:46
ZiggyFishApple Safari and Microsoft Windows Client-side Code Execution VulnerabilityJun 10 04:46
ZiggyFish 10 04:46
dsmith_these were simple filesJun 10 04:46
schestowitzWell, the driver of the company at the moment is Ballmer's envy and ego.Jun 10 04:46
ZiggyFishThird-party sources have indicated that the vulnerability in Safari is the "carpet-bombing" issue reported by Nitesh Dhanjani. If the issue is exploited, attacked-specified content is downloaded to the user's desktop without prompting. However, the Safari issue alone does not let an attacker execute the content. Presumably, an additional issue in Microsoft Windows can be exploited in tandem with this issue to run the contentJun 10 04:47
ZiggyFish that is downloaded to the user's desktop.Jun 10 04:47
schestowitzSafari seems like quite a mess because it's new on this platform and it's only visible to a group in cubicles.Jun 10 04:47
dsmith_apple should just stick with what I knowJun 10 04:47
schestowitzSafari is immature, with the exception of Webkit (KHTML)Jun 10 04:48
dsmith_who would want to use safari on windows anywayJun 10 04:48
ZiggyFishschestowitz: do you know what engine it usesJun 10 04:48
schestowitzThose who are forced?Jun 10 04:48
ZiggyFishdsmith_: i thought the same thingJun 10 04:48
schestowitzApple is pulling an ugly one.Jun 10 04:48
dsmith_<---not forcedJun 10 04:48
dsmith_I can make FF look like safai if I so desiredJun 10 04:48
ZiggyFishschestowitz: apple is trying to get people switchJun 10 04:48
schestowitzYes, I know, but Apple relies on iTunes zombies who just click OK to anything.Jun 10 04:48
schestowitzYes,, FF has had Safari like themes for many years.Jun 10 04:49
ZiggyFishApple's Gamble: Push Safari to Windows Users via Software Updates. Did it Work? < 10 04:49
schestowitzI made one myself. I'll get the URL:Jun 10 04:49
schestowitz 10 04:50
schestowitzHitsLink uses a particular odd population of sites. It should be considered inaccurate. It deviates widely from other surveys. Mac users love it though.Jun 10 04:51
ZiggyFishthe funny thing is the Sefari engine is open sourceJun 10 04:51
schestowitzWell, yes, but it took some feet-grabbing, I think.Jun 10 04:51
ZiggyFishit's under the GPLJun 10 04:51
schestowitzThere was a KDE-Apple confrontation -- however gentle.Jun 10 04:52
schestowitzIt is now... yes. I can't remember the entire saga.Jun 10 04:52
schestowitzKonqueror has Webkit as an option now.Jun 10 04:52
ZiggyFishEpiphany developers provide an experimental build of Epiphany 2.21.4 using the WebKitJun 10 04:53
schestowitzDependence on Apple, eh? I guess the GPL provides sufficient protection. What version of the GPL is it, I wonder.Jun 10 04:54
schestowitzWhile KHTML is likely on its way to v3, I'm not sure Apple will have to follow suit.Jun 10 04:55
ZiggyFishgood questionJun 10 04:55
ZiggyFishv2Jun 10 04:55
schestowitzThe issue is that Webkit spreads. I don't know if you read this, but FF might be Webkit bound too.Jun 10 04:55
ZiggyFishKHTML = GNU Lesser General Public LicenseJun 10 04:55
schestowitzYes, but likely to be LGPLv3 later, just like OOoJun 10 04:56
ZiggyFishFF uses the GeckoJun 10 04:56
schestowitzWith growing pains as I understand it.Jun 10 04:56
ZiggyFishengineJun 10 04:56
schestowitzLet me find a linkJun 10 04:57
schestowitzI can't find what I read at the time, but these come up: 1) and 2) (from Novell's Zonker, albeit before he joined the company)Jun 10 05:00
ZiggyFishI think that was fixed in Gecko 1.9 (which is what FF 3 now uses)Jun 10 05:01
ZiggyFishOne main initiative in 1.9 is an overhaul of the graphics infrastructure, replacing the platforms' API, with cairo for all graphics outputs.[8][9] This is expected to improve 2D graphics capabilities and, via glitz, provide accelerated graphics on 3D graphics hardware. It also results in a single rendering pipeline for HTML and CSS, canvas and SVG, so that SVG effects can be applied to HTML content. Using cairo will also allJun 10 05:01
ZiggyFishow to output the graphics to formats such as Portable Network Graphics (PNG) and Portable Document Format (PDF), allow users to export Web content in these formats.Jun 10 05:01
schestowitzThis got me thinking. About 6 months ago, the man behind KHTML got promoted to VP at Trolltech, IIRC. So he's now at Nokia, which is the same company which along with Apple shot down Ogg out of HTML5. The guy from Nokia was a former Microsoft employee.Jun 10 05:02
ZiggyFishyeahJun 10 05:06
schestowitzNews just in: (seems like getting away with corruption is possible owing to the burden of legal expenses)Jun 10 05:07
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 05:20
schestowitzit sums up the whole mess perfectly. See justice, as long as you are rich. Get away with corruption, as long as you are rich and can control the government, panels, etc.Jun 10 05:21
schestowitz"Williams said there was still a case for the UKUUG's appeal on the grounds that there had been "procedural irregularities" in the BSI's decision to back OOXML. The BSI had supported the Microsoft standard after clearing a consensus vote in its favour among members. The UKUUG told the court there had been no consensus because one member, IBM's Ian Larner, had abstained after long opposition to OOXML's ratification."Jun 10 05:21
schestowitzOBS: what a world we live in... "buyers will have a choice of Linux or Windows XP operating systems, but so far Acer has not said if Linux choosers will be penalised with higher pricing."  _Penalised?_Jun 10 05:30
ZiggyFishschestowitz: In my country you can't find a single Linux PC sold in you local mallJun 10 05:36
ZiggyFish*yourJun 10 05:36
schestowitzTesco sells them here, but it doesn't put them up on display.. Another new find: "Neelam Dhawan, Managing Director of Microsoft India, will leave the company as of 30 June. Some media sources cite the Indian ooxml debacle as a reason." Where is arebenti? He was in this channel the other day. I think he's wrong.Jun 10 05:39
ZiggyFishIn relation to the failure of Microsoft India to get a positive vote outcome Neelam Dhawan's bail out casts a negative light on the company. If standard setting gets performance based and a standard is not let through due to its technical merits but the fear of managing staff to lose its position it comes at no surprise that the management will fight with all means for the adoption of suboptimal solutions. Microsoft India evJun 10 05:43
ZiggyFishen filed a complaint against the standard body No vote that caused the outrage.Jun 10 05:43
ZiggyFishloJun 10 05:43
schestowitzSeems like a runaway from the corruption. Neelam took another Microsoft India senior out... wait, I'll get the link...Jun 10 05:46
schestowitz Never forget the NGOs.( )  Microsoft exploited no-profits to loot the country, which I find sickening. Also see: 10 05:48
ZiggyFishthis is funnyJun 10 05:55
ZiggyFishVMware, Microsoft or Citrix -- who's winning the app virtualization war? < 10 05:56
ZiggyFishMicrosoft said last month that it had sold 6.5 million licenses of its Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP), its bundle of desktop and application virtualization software available only to enterprise customers subscribing to its Software Assurance program.Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFish"Saying you've sold 6.5 million MDOP licenses is like claiming 40% of consumers are using Vista today," he said.Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFishBy contrast, VMware's competing ThinApp application had slightly more than 1 million users when VMware bought its maker, Thinstall Inc., in January, according to Ed Albanese, senior product manager at VMware. He declined to provide an updated figure on the number of users of ThinApp, for which VMware announced a major new release today.Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFish Madden says Microsoft's Application Virtualization is "undoubtedly more popular than ThinApp. But is it 6.5 to 1? That's probably a stretch. It's probably more like 4 to 1."Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFishIf you think Redmond is exaggerating, take a look at the numbers Citrix has bandied about in relation to its equivalent product, Xen Desktop. Citrix bought XenSource Inc. in August. Since then, it has claimed that its XenApp application virtualization software has 70 million users - or nearly 11 times Microsoft's count.Jun 10 05:56
ZiggyFish"They've taken their legacy server application and thrown in the capability to stream applications virtually," he said. "So technically, there are 70 million users authorized to use XenApp, but only a couple of million are probably actually using it."Jun 10 05:57
schestowitzMicrosoft always lies.Jun 10 05:58
ZiggyFishyesJun 10 05:58
schestowitzLook at the Comes vs Microsoft memo I'll show in a moment.Jun 10 05:58
schestowitzThey also got slapped for faking Silverlight adoption. They fight the chicken and egg trap using lies, lies, lies.Jun 10 05:58
ZiggyFishRule one when dealing with Microsoft, they're lying and while you're listening to the their lies your attention is being diverted while they burn down your house and kidnap your children.Jun 10 06:00
schestowitzHold on. BTW, they used their shills at the Yankee Group too in order to lie about VMWare. Yankee was forced to pull down the propaganda, but Microsoft kept a copy of it on its site. Wait, I'll find you the memo.Jun 10 06:00
ZiggyFishexcept this time they kidnaping LinuxJun 10 06:00
schestowitzSearch this one for MSDN: 10 06:02
schestowitzSelective snippets (from Microsoft): "Jihad is a road trip. in which an evangelist visits a large number of ISVs one-on-one to convince them to take some specific action. The classic Jihad is ne focused on getting Tier A ISVs to commit to supporting a given technology by signing the technology's Letter of Agreement (LOA - see above)."Jun 10 06:02
schestowitz"Working behind the scenes to orchestrate "independent" praise of our technology, and damnation of the enemy's, is a key evangelism function during the Slog. "Independent" analyst's report should be issued, praising your technology and damning the competitors (or ignoring them). "Independent" consultants should write columns and articles"Jun 10 06:03
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 06:04
schestowitzJust found an answer to your older question: "Linux drives the world’s fastest computer" 10 06:15
ZiggyFishthanksJun 10 06:16
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dsmith_wowJun 10 06:37
dsmith_helmer cluster is somethingJun 10 06:37
schestowitzRings a bell.Jun 10 06:37
PetoKrausmorningJun 10 06:37
schestowitzEarly. Morning.Jun 10 06:37
schestowitzMicrosoft is kaput (gradually): Even Randall Kennedy trahses Windows now that it's dying. He used to criticise Linux.Jun 10 06:38
PetoKraus:)Jun 10 06:39
PetoKrausbut the post is niceJun 10 06:39
dsmith_boy, am I glad I learned LinuxJun 10 06:40
dsmith_Now we learn that there’s no point in waiting for Windows 7 because, according to Microsoft, “it’ll be just like Vista.”Jun 10 06:40 10 06:40
schestowitzthat's not new really. WIndiws 7 is rebranded SP2 and Xerox like (1980s) touchscreen support, assuming you have the h/W..Jun 10 06:41
PetoKrausi see it's the perfect OS for XO2Jun 10 06:47
ZiggyFishschestowitz: isn't vista a rebranded xp SP2?Jun 10 06:48
ZiggyFishso Windows 7 OS a SP on an SPJun 10 06:49
ZiggyFish:PJun 10 06:49
schestowitzYes, that's what myself and others have said since 2005.Jun 10 06:49
schestowitzLonghorn got thrown away in 2005 (Microsoft issued a C&D against some folks who tried to bring it back in 2007). Vista is XP with a coat of paint, DRM 'enhancements' and a bunch of make believe \added value' gizmos. It's not even more secure. They rushed it out the door, which in retrospect was a colossal mistake.Jun 10 06:51
schestowitzRe: "sp on an sp", there was an interesting interview with Jim "we need to slaughter Novell" Allchin last year. He talked about renaming SPs as though they are separate releases.Jun 10 06:52
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 06:53
PetoKrauswell that's probably a good idea. Imagine W2k, W2k1, W2k2, W2k3...Jun 10 06:53
ZiggyFishThey rushed Vista out the door 3 years late.Jun 10 06:53
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 06:54
ZiggyFishMaybe they do it on kernel version (they are up to NT6)Jun 10 06:55
schestowitzDid you see the 2003 demo? Wait, I'll fetch because it's hilarious.Jun 10 06:55
ZiggyFishNow look at Linux still on v2Jun 10 06:55
schestowitzLadies and gents, welcome to 2003: 10 06:55
dsmith_you know they had some guys working on a open version of longhornJun 10 06:56
dsmith_till MS killed itJun 10 06:56
PetoKrausflash? :?Jun 10 06:56
schestowitzYes, sorry. Should we ogg it?Jun 10 06:58
schestowitzCan't wait until October............... 2003.Jun 10 06:58
dsmith_nice demoJun 10 06:58
dsmith_but *thats* not anything like vistaJun 10 06:58
schestowitzHaha. No...Jun 10 06:59
ZiggyFishthat looks better than vistaJun 10 06:59
schestowitzVapourwareJun 10 06:59
PetoKrausdid you seeJun 10 06:59
dsmith_longhorn reloaded thast itJun 10 06:59
PetoKrausthe 2 versions?Jun 10 06:59
PetoKrausxDJun 10 07:00
PetoKrauslike, the two boxes only, @ the end of the videoJun 10 07:00
schestowitzImagine a conversation in 2002: "we should really try Mandrike 9. KDE 3 is maturing". Boss replies: "No, no... look what's coming from Microsoft next year" *points at demo*Jun 10 07:01
dsmith_lolJun 10 07:01
dsmith_dumb bossJun 10 07:01
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 07:01
schestowitzBill Gates will sell you a dream.Jun 10 07:01
schestowitzDid you know Surface was going to be scraped for becoming the failure that it currently is? Only Bill Gates kept it alive. He wanted to sell us a dream.Jun 10 07:02
ZiggyFishschestowitz: lol, you spelt mandrake as, a cross between Mandrake and MandrivaJun 10 07:02
schestowitzMr. Candy Man... a shame really that he'll retire to just sign more checks. Seen a moment ago: "First off, I have been asked by Christian not to name the school. Microsoft is terribly sensitive to the loss of any school in California, as they have to pay for millions in replacement equipment and software due to a court order."Jun 10 07:02
ZiggyFishschestowitz: Surface is an old technology (around 25 years old)Jun 10 07:03
schestowitzYes, done with Linux by at least two researchers (independently).Jun 10 07:04
schestowitzI'll fetch linksJun 10 07:04
schestowitzMicrosoft Rips off Researchers at Pompeu Fabra University of Barcelona: 10 07:05
PetoKrausman i hate firefox since i started using epiphany :/Jun 10 07:05
schestowitzJeff Han's Research Ripped by Microsoft Surface?: 10 07:05
ZiggyFishI know Motorola was released before it before SurfaceJun 10 07:05
schestowitzMicrosoft Surface idea not that new? : 10 07:05
schestowitzMicrosoft's Surface is evidence that Redmond is losing it: 10 07:05
schestowitzMicrosoft's Robbie Bach 'thought about killing' Surface: "Surface did have one important cheerleader: Bill Gates."Jun 10 07:05
schestowitzBruce Byfield has just published a piece on GNewSense: This I did not know: "GNewSense began at a conference in Tunis in 2005 when Paul O'Malley heard Mark Shuttleworth and Richard Stallman talking about the possibility of a politically free version of Ubuntu..."Jun 10 07:07
schestowitzMark Shuttleworth is getting challenged by readers at the moment. 10 07:08
PetoKraushehe, nice benchmark of distributionsJun 10 07:11
PetoKraus 10 07:11
schestowitzYes, Phoronix has a channel now too (announced yesterday). It was interesting that Michael was asked to create a channel around the same time that I was asked too. It's like IRC makes a comeback or something.Jun 10 07:13
schestowitzI told him before that the benchmark should not involve brute-force kernel-dependent stuff. He's just gauging very similar or identical components, so he measures noise without repeating experiments for error bars (standard deviation).Jun 10 07:15
PetoKrausyupJun 10 07:17
PetoKrausi've noticed as well, the results are VERY kernel dependantJun 10 07:17
schestowitzBTW, speaking of Phoronix, I read that "the RadeonHD guys do hate Novell too actually. It's so hard for them with order procurements. It took them 4 months for "processing" when they needed a new monitor."Jun 10 07:17
ZiggyFishit looks like ubuntu won the benchmarkJun 10 07:18
PetoKrausi mean, on my livecd is a kernel, which is made for troughput - and the system is compiled for P3 optimizations only - and it still beats my fine-tuned desktop gentoo amd64 with C2D optimizations....Jun 10 07:18
PetoKrausZiggyFish: only because gentoo is missing :PJun 10 07:18
ZiggyFishtrueJun 10 07:18
schestowitzTweaking is easy. Let me find you something that shows why it's all flawed.Jun 10 07:19
PetoKrauskJun 10 07:19
PetoKrausi should really update my project, duhJun 10 07:19
ZiggyFishbut that's the power of Linux, you can make it as big as you want or as small as you wantJun 10 07:19
schestowitzLies, damn lies, and stats. (Outrage at Microsoft’s independent, yet sponsored NT 4.0/Linux researchOutrage at Microsoft’s independent, yet sponsored NT 4.0/Linux research) Microsoft: "Microsoft did sponsor the benchmark testing and the NT server was better tuned than the Linux one."Jun 10 07:20
PetoKraus 10 07:21
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 07:22
schestowitzHeh. When LinuxLoop does the scanning of comiics, the quality is mildly irritating.Jun 10 07:22
PetoKrausyes.Jun 10 07:24
PetoKrausand the artwork even moreJun 10 07:24
schestowitzAnother Microsoft fake 'open-source' I came across moments ago:Jun 10 07:24
schestowitz 10 07:24
schestowitzThey do the same thing with OOXML, using some ADDONS that they call open-source to try and associate OOXML with open source. In this case it's the SharePoint lock-in. Wait until they do some marketing blitz that's intended to call "7" open.Jun 10 07:25
PetoKrauswell, they actually may do that to scare people off  buying it instead of vistaJun 10 07:29
PetoKraus"W7 will be open, so it will suck, so, don't buy it, go for vista."Jun 10 07:29
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ZiggyFishanother IIS attack, (Wal-mart got attacked (which uses IIS 6.0))Jun 10 07:32
PetoKraushaha.Jun 10 07:33
schestowitzThe SQL Server injections caught 500,000 IIS sites with their pants down a month ago (just over a month).Jun 10 07:34
ZiggyFishthey had a huge attack a couple of months ago. (SQL injection attack aimed at MS SQL)Jun 10 07:34
PetoKrausi hope my bank doesn't run IISJun 10 07:35
schestowitzOn the other hand, phpbb was attacked also, but that's app-level.Jun 10 07:35
schestowitz<PetoKraus>, never mind the bank. How about your life? Dread the thought of your doctor tapping stuff away, putting it on a platform that's claimed to be a zombie 40% of the time (USA Today)Jun 10 07:37
ZiggyFish:(, Icahn steps up attack on Yahoo board < 10 07:37
schestowitzThere were stories about hospitals that became botnets, even one in Seattle, IIRC.Jun 10 07:38
PetoKrausschestowitz: ha.Jun 10 07:38
PetoKrausthese are data, which should not be on the internetJun 10 07:39
schestowitzWith Windows, you _must_ assume that all recorded data can and will be shared with uninvited intruders. Some months ago I believe it was Gartner (Microsoft's Partner Group) that said only about 10% of the data theft incidents get reported. Others are concealed. The same goes for banks. Halifax came under fire recently and online banking crime rose 8000% between2006 and 2007.Jun 10 07:39
PetoKrausummJun 10 07:40
schestowitzIt should be on the Internet, just not on Windows.Jun 10 07:40
ZiggyFishschestowitz: that's why I don't use Internet bankingJun 10 07:40
PetoKrauswell about internet bankingJun 10 07:40
PetoKrausthat's moneyJun 10 07:40
PetoKrausyou can sue the bank, you'll winJun 10 07:41
schestowitzNot quite.Jun 10 07:41
ZiggyFishwhen they move their severs to Linux, I might consider itJun 10 07:41
PetoKrausbut what can you do when someone gets your medical data?Jun 10 07:41
schestowitzHere in the UK they have a new policy that says if you're not protected (firewall, AV, etc), you are liable.Jun 10 07:41
schestowitzWhich was funny because, as Glyn Moody pointed out, does that make Linux users liable? They don't need that stuff. Others suggest that Live CDs should be distributed by banks.Jun 10 07:42
PetoKrausand they pick the firewalls and antivirus as well?Jun 10 07:42
ZiggyFishPetoKraus: I've haven't been to a doctor for 4 yearsJun 10 07:42
PetoKrausZiggyFish: :DJun 10 07:42
PetoKrausi just don't trust web for holding of secure dataJun 10 07:42
PetoKrauswell, data which should be securedJun 10 07:43
PetoKrauscause, everything will get hacked, eventuallyJun 10 07:43
schestowitzBy whom? There's also social  enginering.Jun 10 07:43
PetoKrausby whom? just because it's there, i believeJun 10 07:43
PetoKrausthey hacked our national security bureau recently (a year ago)Jun 10 07:44
schestowitzEven in non-electronic form, it's not secure.Jun 10 07:44
PetoKrausyes, that's trueJun 10 07:44
PetoKrausbut you can at least lock it down physicallyJun 10 07:44
ZiggyFishschestowitz: yeah, but it requires the person to actually have access the the dataJun 10 07:44
schestowitzSchneier writes some good stuff on that topic.Jun 10 07:44
PetoKrausi'll upload you an essay what happened here a while agoJun 10 07:44
schestowitzThere's also the option of bribing someone , <ZiggyFish> .Jun 10 07:45
ZiggyFishtrueJun 10 07:45
schestowitzIt does happen. That's why Microsoft handing out USB back doors  to policemen is stupid, stupid, stupid.Jun 10 07:45
schestowitzHow long before the blackhat community gets hold of one of these and studies it?Jun 10 07:45
PetoKrausmind odt?Jun 10 07:46
PetoKrausor rather pdfJun 10 07:46
schestowitzODT is good.Jun 10 07:46
ZiggyFishschestowitz: that doesn't bother Linux (give people more reason to choose linux)Jun 10 07:46
schestowitzPDF also good.Jun 10 07:46
PetoKrausi preffer pdf for publishing...Jun 10 07:47
PetoKrausit ensures that it'll display correctlyJun 10 07:47
PetoKrausand print correctlyJun 10 07:47
ZiggyFishwhen I send my resume to employees, I usually send it as PDFJun 10 07:47
PetoKrausme as wellJun 10 07:47
PetoKrausit's dead easy to click export...Jun 10 07:48
ZiggyFishthey can't read ODT so, the next best thing is PDFJun 10 07:48
PetoKraus 10 07:48
schestowitzI open PDFs quickly, but I don't know... I don't feel like I /control/ the text.Jun 10 07:48
schestowitzAdobe has the power. I can only /view/...Jun 10 07:48
schestowitzFunny feeling.Jun 10 07:48
schestowitzLike DRM.Jun 10 07:48
ZiggyFishschestowitz: PDF is a ISO standard ( I know it doesn't mean much), also they publish their documents on their websiteJun 10 07:49
PetoKrauswell, I like pdf because you can forbid printing and copying of textJun 10 07:50
PetoKrauswhich is somewhat required to comply with school plagiarism policiesJun 10 07:50
ZiggyFishtrueJun 10 07:50
PetoKrausthis way i can redistribute my old lab reports for my younger schoolmatesJun 10 07:50
schestowitzhaha.Jun 10 07:51
PetoKrausi tend to make fun from stupid assignments.Jun 10 07:51
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 07:51
schestowitzThat's just like the DRM scam. Any person would just grab some software like a screengrabber and do OCR.Jun 10 07:51
PetoKraussureJun 10 07:51
schestowitzYou only punish the honest people, not plagiarists Jun 10 07:52
PetoKrausbut my hands are clean then ;)Jun 10 07:52
ZiggyFishbut it makes it difficult for them to do thatJun 10 07:52
PetoKraushonest people don't need to copy my resultsJun 10 07:52
PetoKraushonest people use it as a reference (as to, what's wrong :D)Jun 10 07:52
schestowitzThis is insanely stupid. Why don't they just guage their eyes instead? It's more effective. *rolls eyes*Jun 10 07:53
schestowitzgouge I meant.Jun 10 07:53
PetoKraus?Jun 10 07:53
schestowitzLike cutting people's ears to ensure they cannot /capture/ audio. Maybe a cognitive intervantion also.Jun 10 07:53
PetoKrauswellJun 10 07:53
schestowitzintervention.Jun 10 07:53
PetoKrausthe point is, I could get punished for helping themJun 10 07:54
PetoKrausthey could get punished for quoting meJun 10 07:54
PetoKrausi want to help themJun 10 07:54
schestowitzEben Moglen: "Everybody is connected to everybody else, all data that can be shared will be shared will be shared: get used to it."Jun 10 07:54
PetoKrauswhen someone has a problem, i always discuss it with him/herJun 10 07:54
PetoKrausbut since lab reports are something you get your marks on, and it should be your own workJun 10 07:55
schestowitzYes. Replication of things is still unproductive in many cases and restricting sharing an impossibility and a nuisance to everyone involved.Jun 10 07:55
PetoKrausi don't think you should be able to get marks for my work :) And i don't want you to get MY marks as well xDJun 10 07:55
PetoKrausbut we are not talking about industry area now, we are talking about school, academics...Jun 10 07:56
schestowitzTrue, which is another reason to consider doing unique projects rather than have entire classes doing massive multi-player duplication extravaganzaJun 10 07:56
PetoKrauswell, you HAVE to learn to do it somehowJun 10 07:57
PetoKraus*how to do itJun 10 07:57
ZiggyFishto hard to markJun 10 07:57
schestowitzYes, but people can be taught by doing unique things. At unversities, people undertake projects.Jun 10 07:57
PetoKrausin third year.Jun 10 07:57
schestowitzYes, but learning is done with input. Output can be unique.Jun 10 07:58
PetoKraussureJun 10 07:58
PetoKrausthat's exactly why i don't encourage copying of my lab worksJun 10 07:58
schestowitzAha!Jun 10 07:58
PetoKrausif i was completely sure they are perfect, i would not put them up in the first place (:P), and to anyone who whould ask, i'd hand a copyJun 10 07:58
PetoKrausbut this way, my mates know, that they are average mostly... they are guidelines.Jun 10 07:59
schestowitzIt's like sharing and not sharing. Taking away of abilities... crippling in other words.Jun 10 07:59
schestowitzFor the sake of education, supposedly.Jun 10 07:59
PetoKrausmoreover, no one ever asked for printed/not-restricted versionJun 10 08:00
PetoKrausyes, it is crippling, and not sharingJun 10 08:01
ZiggyFishwhen I was in doing my diploma, the teacher would put errors in the code, so that we would be able to copyJun 10 08:01
schestowitzI can imagine what RMS would say about this because he encourages the oppositeJun 10 08:01
PetoKrausbut there are, in my opinion, perfectly valid reasons to do thatJun 10 08:01
PetoKrausyes, i can imagine as wellJun 10 08:01
PetoKraushe would ask me to not care about school's plagiarism policyJun 10 08:02
schestowitzHa. Yeah...Jun 10 08:03
schestowitzThere are some more moronic things to ignore though, such as software patents.Jun 10 08:03
PetoKrauswe've got a fictional classmateJun 10 08:04
PetoKraushe submitted an essayJun 10 08:04
PetoKrauscopied off the first result from googleJun 10 08:04
PetoKraushe got kicked off the school even before it was obvious he's imaginary xDJun 10 08:04
schestowitzCan you ever prevent such a thing? That's the key question to address. If not, a Plan B is needed.Jun 10 08:05
ZiggyFishtackle that problem when it comesJun 10 08:05
PetoKrausI should get moving.Jun 10 08:06
ZiggyFishsure, see yaJun 10 08:06
schestowitzSee youJun 10 08:06
PetoKrauslast note, what i don't get isJun 10 08:07
PetoKraushow they forbid you to take pictures at gigsJun 10 08:07
PetoKrausi mean, why? why does it matter?Jun 10 08:08
schestowitzOh, didn't you watch the news?Jun 10 08:08
PetoKrauswell, not reallyJun 10 08:08
PetoKrausi am not in britain for 2 monthsJun 10 08:08
schestowitzMicrosoft patented a technology for disabling cameras where photography is not allows.Jun 10 08:09
PetoKrauswe've got our own MP-signed-another-MP-on-presence-chart problemJun 10 08:09
ZiggyFishbrbJun 10 08:09
PetoKraushahaJun 10 08:09
*ZiggyFish has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jun 10 08:09
schestowitzallowed. Imagine a scenario where a nurse wheels out a patient to the street for enablement.Jun 10 08:09
PetoKrauswell, i guess that's the thing they've been putting into my camera for so long...Jun 10 08:11
PetoKrausso it'll be like... wireless emmiters which will contact some embedded chipset on your camera, which will sayJun 10 08:11
schestowitzSame with radio tuners.Jun 10 08:11
PetoKraus"FU, no pictures here", and since it's made by MSJun 10 08:11
PetoKrausit'll be hacked in a year?Jun 10 08:12
schestowitzIt can be 'licensed' by MS or comply with ACTA-type things. It's Orwellian stuff becoming a relityJun 10 08:12
PetoKrausrightJun 10 08:12
PetoKrauswhat about analog cameras?Jun 10 08:12
schestowitzThey phase them out or pardon these. Maybe we'll see a lot more people with analogues...Jun 10 08:13
PetoKrausnext step will be to forbid them.Jun 10 08:13
PetoKrausi mean, sales.Jun 10 08:13
PetoKrausduh. this is scary.Jun 10 08:13
schestowitzSame with physical tuners and old radios, just like cassette tapes.Jun 10 08:13
PetoKrauseurope, hold on :/Jun 10 08:13
schestowitzIt's dicussed in the EU. Such stuff... secret meeting in Switzerland recently.Jun 10 08:14
PetoKrauson one hand EU brought very good things to the countriesJun 10 08:14
PetoKrauson the other hand, it makes lobbying excercises much easierJun 10 08:14
schestowitzPublic opinion matters not. Just like the Novell deal and the reduction. They decided 'for us' that software patents need honouring and Microsoft 'owns' Linux.Jun 10 08:14
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PetoKrausi still don't get who does it benefitJun 10 08:16
ZiggyFishbackJun 10 08:16
PetoKrausto forbid people from taking pictures on gigsJun 10 08:16
ZiggyFishno one I would guessJun 10 08:17
schestowitzWhich spe... oh, well, it's a matter of defending imaginary propertyJun 10 08:17
PetoKrausprofessional photographers? no, they always get the best spots. The band? No, they give you autograms after the show and are willing to take a picture with youJun 10 08:17
schestowitzIn the US you are forbidden from taking pictures of some cars in the streets even.Jun 10 08:17
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 08:17
PetoKrausi think in UK you can take picture of everything you can see, unless stated otherwiseJun 10 08:17
ZiggyFishschestowitz: is that car porn :PJun 10 08:17
PetoKrausxDJun 10 08:18
PetoKrausillegal car porn!Jun 10 08:18
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 08:18
schestowitzThe car must be over 18 years old.Jun 10 08:18
PetoKrausi just don't get how can a law passed in the USJun 10 08:19
PetoKrausaffect whole world. (DMCA)Jun 10 08:19
ZiggyFishIn Aus, you can take a picture of everything, except a childJun 10 08:19
ZiggyFishPetoKraus: it's the US, it doesn't have to make senseJun 10 08:19
PetoKrauspardon me, but when exactly did we hand the power to the stupid?Jun 10 08:20
schestowitzIt's imperialism.Jun 10 08:20
PetoKrauswas it WW2?Jun 10 08:20
ZiggyFishno commentJun 10 08:20
PetoKraus:PJun 10 08:20
schestowitzSome people who read this would be offended. But each country has its share of fools and here too we have some people who merely serve the Bilderbergers and others.Jun 10 08:21
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PetoKrauswell one who gets offended on absolutely obvious ironization.... well, good luck to him, he'll have it tough.Jun 10 08:22
PetoKrausevery country has stupid politiciansJun 10 08:23
PetoKrausthey are elected by the stupid people in the country.Jun 10 08:23
ZiggyFishtrueJun 10 08:23
schestowitzNot so sure.Jun 10 08:23
PetoKrausthe problem starts, when the stupid politician achieves better results than the other oneJun 10 08:23
PetoKrauswhich happens in slovakia right now.Jun 10 08:23
schestowitzThe elections are partly controlled by other focused that drive the country and no matter who gets elected, the influence comes from the wealthy.Jun 10 08:24
ZiggyFishit happens in Australia tooJun 10 08:24
schestowitzwelcome,  taconeJun 10 08:24
taconehi roy :)Jun 10 08:24
taconeI am not sure I presented myself in the previous daysJun 10 08:25
PetoKrauswell, not in last 6Jun 10 08:26
schestowitzI'm not sure you have, please do. :-)Jun 10 08:26
schestowitz<PetoKraus>, it's the same situation in all scales. Even in Novell and Microsoft you have some greedy ** making decisions that those at the bottom disagree with but must accept/obey.Jun 10 08:26
PetoKrausah finally i get it! jesus christ i am stupid :/Jun 10 08:27
taconeI'm just a regular reader. I live in italy, and I am mainly concerned with Mono being adopted in gnomeJun 10 08:27
schestowitzI know about actual Novell employees who displike the company but just stay there for the checks.Jun 10 08:27
PetoKrausfriend's camera takes pictures in different aspect ratio :/Jun 10 08:27
PetoKrausschestowitz: i read it "chicks"Jun 10 08:27
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 08:28
schestowitzWell, there's that former Novell employee who left a comment in about mormons, not just chicks. He doesn't like the company. He thinks it's like a cult.Jun 10 08:29
schestowitzBut that's just the Utah area, which is not where the management is  (MA).Jun 10 08:30
ZiggyFishBoycott spotlights antivirus testing issues < >Jun 10 08:41
ZiggyFishThe disagreement between antivirus software makers and the firms that test their products took a dramatic turn last week when one company, Trend Micro, told reporters it would boycott a popular certification in the future.Jun 10 08:41
schestowitz*LOL* It's Trend Micro which is boycotted for software patent harassment against FOSS. It's like seeing Microsoft protesting against Google monopoly.Jun 10 08:43
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 08:43
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ZiggyFishlolJun 10 11:37
ZiggyFishMicrosoft files 21 piracy suitsJun 10 11:38
ZiggyFishit urges consumers to call 1-800-RU-LEGITJun 10 11:38
PetoKrausrussian legit?Jun 10 11:38
ZiggyFishlolJun 10 11:38
ZiggyFishR = are U = you ( I think)Jun 10 11:39
PetoKrausthat's stupid.Jun 10 11:39
PetoKrausi don't have "legit" on my cell phone eitherJun 10 11:39
ZiggyFishme neither nor do i have it on my house phoneJun 10 11:40
PetoKrausi don't have a house phone. stays true.Jun 10 11:40
PetoKrausjesus holy fkn christ! i am compiling the kernel on ubuntu for.... half an hour already?!?Jun 10 11:44
ZiggyFishdid you use the -j option?Jun 10 11:44
PetoKrausit's ubuntuJun 10 11:45
PetoKrausthey have the make-kpkg thingJun 10 11:45
PetoKrausand i don't have a clue what's the computer like.Jun 10 11:45
PetoKraustrying to fix alsa issues...Jun 10 11:45
ZiggyFishohJun 10 11:45
ZiggyFishwhat cardJun 10 11:45
PetoKrausICH8 Intel HDAJun 10 11:45
PetoKrausthat's always problem.Jun 10 11:45
ZiggyFishPetoKraus: some one has reported the problem to ubutnu so it may be fixed in a week or twoJun 10 11:47
PetoKrauswellJun 10 11:47
PetoKraus"week or two"Jun 10 11:47
PetoKrausis exactly too muchJun 10 11:47
PetoKrausyou don't generally want to run into problems on first install of GNU/linux after hyping itJun 10 11:48
ZiggyFishtrueJun 10 11:48
PetoKraus!!! man... this is bollocks...Jun 10 11:49
PetoKrausthat make-kpkg just crashedJun 10 11:49
ZiggyFishgive me a secJun 10 11:49
ZiggyFishand I'll find some stuffJun 10 11:49
ZiggyFishbefore I begin. tell me the output of lspci -nn | grep AudioJun 10 11:51
PetoKraus00:1b.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller [8086:284b] (rev 02)Jun 10 11:53
ZiggyFishthis page may help (I know it's for gusty but it should still work)Jun 10 11:55
PetoKrausduhJun 10 11:58
PetoKrausthis is madnessJun 10 11:58
ZiggyFishjust follow that pageJun 10 11:59
PetoKrausthe first one doesn't workJun 10 11:59
ZiggyFishtry the next oneJun 10 12:01
PetoKrausi'd sayJun 10 12:01
PetoKrausthe problem isJun 10 12:01
PetoKrausthat the default kernelJun 10 12:01
PetoKrausdoesn't have alsa built inJun 10 12:01
PetoKrauso.OJun 10 12:01
ZiggyFishdon't knowJun 10 12:02
PetoKrausok, i'll do it my way.Jun 10 12:03
ZiggyFishsomething I would like to do when I get some spare time is make a script that downloads, installs and tests Driver stuffJun 10 12:03
ZiggyFishit would make installing drivers very easyJun 10 12:03
ZiggyFishsee ya allJun 10 12:08
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PetoKrausi wonder what'll be the outcome of OOXML dramaJun 10 12:28
zoobabISO will just let the standard throughJun 10 13:30
zoobabthey are unable to clear their conflicts of interests, see the Norway caseJun 10 13:30
schestowitzJust back from from the gym...  I'll hopefully find some articles about those 21 lawsuits <ZiggyFish> wrote about. It sounds interesting. Microsoft cracks down on small battling ships ('pirates') for extra bash. I reckon that in the next quarter they'll report another profit collapse and blame 'pirates' like they did the last time.Jun 10 13:52
*moparx awakensJun 10 13:55
schestowitzLook what I just found : (  boycott ). What da fork?Jun 10 13:56
PetoKrauswhat the flash!Jun 10 13:58
PetoKrausso basicallyJun 10 13:58
zoobabECIS confirmed this morning that MS appeals to the ECJ on patentsJun 10 13:58
zoobabthis is big newsJun 10 13:58
PetoKrausjust because you insulted his emplyerJun 10 13:59
moparxya.. hahaJun 10 13:59
schestowitzI posted this here before I read it. Just have...Jun 10 13:59
moparxI figured it would be from someone somehow relatedJun 10 13:59
zoobabbecause all the press says they appeal on the "fine", but in fact they just want certainty to tax Samba and RedhatJun 10 13:59
PetoKrausthat post is... heheJun 10 13:59
schestowitzB*stards. They /really/ do need to tax their rivals. SCO 2.0, just as PJ said.Jun 10 14:00
zoobaball those journalists are incompetentJun 10 14:01
schestowitzAbout the post, as I understand it (I read it  very quickly), this is the guy responsible for building the bridge to Microsoft projects.Jun 10 14:01
schestowitz<zoobab>, they read press release, parse and then substitute. Especially the 'Big Press' that calls OOXML open source (Reuters)Jun 10 14:02
schestowitzGot URL, ben?Jun 10 14:02
zoobabno just private talks with ECISJun 10 14:19
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schestowitzI wrongly misinterpreted "journalists are incompetent" and assumed there was poor reporting about this. Have you written about this in DigMaj?Jun 10 14:25
zoobab 10 15:14
zoobabnot yetJun 10 15:14
zoobab"The objective of this call for tenders is to establish a framework contract for a single source purchase channel, covering the acquisition of Microsoft software products and licences. The future contractor has to provide a unique interface between Microsoft and the European Institutions."Jun 10 15:15
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schestowitzThey think about switching to GNU/Linux. They already test it. (EU: Europarlement testing Ubuntu, OpenOffice and Firefox)Jun 10 15:19
schestowitz ( Novell GroupWise Messenger Client Buffer Overflow Vulnerabilities )Jun 10 15:22
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EruaranhiJun 10 15:39
schestowitz ( E.U. Snubs Microsoft on Office Systems )Jun 10 15:49
EruaranI like Ms. KroesJun 10 15:58
schestowitzBallmer took he out to dinner. *shudder* After doing the same extortion routine over the telephone as he did in Korea around 2006.Jun 10 16:02
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schestowitz ("If they decide in favour of proceeding, the chairmen of the two boards are required to establish a conciliation panel which will attempt to resolve the appeals. The process could take several months.")Jun 10 16:07
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EruaranI'm glad countries have appealedJun 10 16:35
martinjh99I wouldn't touch Office with a 20 foot pole - works for me! :)Jun 10 16:36
Eruaran:)Jun 10 16:37
martinjh99What's the going rate for Office 2007 that I'm saving then??Jun 10 16:38
schestowitzShort- or long-term?Jun 10 16:39
EruaranI'm waiting for KOffice 2Jun 10 16:39
martinjh99long term probably...  Just interested really...Jun 10 16:39
EruaranI've been hearing good things about KOffice 2Jun 10 16:40
martinjh99As long as it can read ODF I'll give it a go on Linux...Jun 10 16:41
schestowitzDepending on your use (e.g. personal versus business versus enterprise) it can anything from hundreds of dollars to thousands. In the long LONG team office suites as a the paradigm that it is could become passe.Jun 10 16:41
martinjh99Hehe - Well I haven't got that much money...  Like I said anything free that supports ODF will work for me!Jun 10 16:42
EruaranMicrosoft's licences are deliberatly geared toward getting people to buy the more expensive optionJun 10 16:42
schestowitzBTW, just spotted Mark Shuttleworth detailed reply to my quick post (which some people took out of context): 10 16:42
martinjh99:) Like you get all the apps in the most expensive version and not much in the cheapest...Jun 10 16:42
schestowitzMost people don't require this, but Microsoft goes out of its way with marketing. The processing of data is becoming more network-oriented. The 'fat client' matters less.Jun 10 16:43
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schestowitzwelcome, tacone.Jun 10 16:46
taconenice to see you again.Jun 10 16:46
schestowitzI'm always connected, even if I'm away.Jun 10 16:46
taconeme too, but I don't autojoin this channel.Jun 10 16:48
taconeschestowitz: do you believe Shuttleworth about MS Codecs ?Jun 10 16:48
schestowitzSlated got me thinking about only the possibility that Microsoft put pressure on him, but I doubt it.Jun 10 16:50
taconeHe's moving cleverly for now, imho. I hope he just continues this way.Jun 10 16:52
schestowitzNew meme just discovered: "open-source standards"  What is an open-source standards? Is it one that you can modify and redistribute? Is that still a standard?Jun 10 16:52
taconeI guess it's just journalist bad interpretation or (sic) EU ignorance.Jun 10 16:54
schestowitzReuters does this too. Twice recently (that I can recall).Jun 10 16:56
schestowitzMicrosoft: we're open source, we're open source (FOOTNOTE: you need to but proprietary Sharepoint and by "open source" we mean something else): Also: http://www.24-7pressrelease... "Open source timelive time tracking software released by" - "TimeLive is developed using ASP.Net 2 and Microsoft AjJun 10 17:03
schestowitzax 1.0. For database, timelive is using Microsoft SQL Server 2005 database."Jun 10 17:03
taconethey're opensource ? really? all solved then :)Jun 10 17:05
EruaranClearly Microsoft doesn't "get it"Jun 10 17:07
taconeEruaran: I guess they get everything. and more.Jun 10 17:07
schestowitzIt doesn't want or need to.  It serves its interests because "open source" then loses appeal, added value. That's why saying GPL or Free software becomes ever more important.Jun 10 17:08
taconeschestowitz: I guess Free software is media-manipulable as well. GPL is better.Jun 10 17:08
EruaranMicrosoft actually believes they can convince free software devs to use, and even depend on their proprietary development tools... They are simply using "open source" as a marketing tool, and they don't understand who they are marketing to.Jun 10 17:10
EruaranThe only people I can think of who would actually be enthusiastic about this all work for Novell.Jun 10 17:10
EruaranCame across some FUD from Fahmida Y. Rashid on ChannelWeb today.Jun 10 17:12
Eruaran 10 17:12
EruaranIt takes one of the great strengths of Ubuntu on a Dell system (APT) and makes it sound for all the world like it has all the flaws of a Windows system and more.Jun 10 17:14
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 10 17:20:48 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovellJun 10 17:20
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged)Jun 10 17:20
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 09:34:16 2008Jun 10 17:20
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-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, We are now able to receive donations via Paypal again and should you wish to make a one-off donation, create a subscription or re-new a previous subscription you can do so using the links at the left-hand sidebar on Thank you for using freenode and have a great day!Jun 10 20:28
PetoKrausschestowitz: are you here roy?Jun 10 20:32
schestowitzYes, I am. I also wonder how to regain op. *blush* I'm just posing in at the moment.Jun 10 20:34
PetoKrausi am trying to get RSS working on my pageJun 10 20:35
PetoKrausbut got a valid feed, but.... still, when I open it, it shows only the XML, not as a feedJun 10 20:35
schestowitzThis happened to me recently when I upgraded phpnuke? Any chance it's related?Jun 10 20:38
PetoKrauswell, i am creating a new feedJun 10 20:38
PetoKrausi don't know how to create that flashy rss icon you for example got on the address barJun 10 20:39
schestowitzThat is put at the header to inform the browser.Jun 10 20:40
PetoKrausyeah.... can you find the code for me?Jun 10 20:40
schestowitzUnder <head>, put <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="RSS 2.0" href="YOUR RSS THINGIE.RSS" />Jun 10 20:42
PetoKrauscheers manJun 10 20:43
schestowitznbJun 10 20:43
PetoKrausnow i need to code something, so I won't have to update the feed manuallyJun 10 20:43
schestowitzThat's why I prefer a CMS.Jun 10 20:44
PetoKrauswell, it's a wayJun 10 20:44
PetoKrausbut i want to do it myself, so i can learn somethingJun 10 20:45
PetoKrausyou know, with python, programming is fun again!Jun 10 20:45
schestowitzYes, go for it then.Jun 10 20:45
PetoKrausis it ethical to link to other pages from your feed?Jun 10 20:49
PetoKrausxDJun 10 20:49
PetoKrausyou know, it's a news aggregation...Jun 10 20:49
PetoKrausso basically i put in the feed what I consider important. Though, i guess it depends on the descriptionJun 10 20:50
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Jun 10 20:53
schestowitzYes, LXer does this.Jun 10 20:54
schestowitzThey use a redirection though.Jun 10 20:54
PetoKraushmm this is too difficult to think about todayJun 10 20:55
PetoKrausso, thank you roy ;)Jun 10 20:56
PetoKrausgreat :)Jun 10 20:59
schestowitzI have fallen so far behind my feeds.Jun 10 20:59
PetoKrauswell, slashdot 84Jun 10 20:59
PetoKrausi blame my girlfriend xDJun 10 20:59
PetoKraus(anyway, if you wanna see what a monster did you help to create, 10 21:01
schestowitzThanks. As soon as I post my pile of selected links.Jun 10 21:01
PetoKrausgood night.Jun 10 21:04
schestowitzTa.Jun 10 21:05
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jun 10 21:10
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellJun 10 22:54
*ZiggyFish ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 10 23:24
ZiggyFishgood morningJun 10 23:24
ZiggyFishSome nice stories in the daily Links todayJun 10 23:25
*ZiggyFish has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 10 23:33

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