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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 23rd, 2008 - Part 2

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_DougASP.NET on Linux ..Sep 23 20:58
_Doughttp://dev.mainsoft.com/Default.aspx?tabid=45Sep 23 20:58
schestowitzcj seems to be somewhere in this territory.Sep 23 20:58
schestowitzWhy even compete, eh?Sep 23 20:58
AlbertoPschestowitz, answer please :)Sep 23 20:58
benJIman_Doug: I am quite aware of the state of mono, I do follow its development with interest.Sep 23 20:58
schestowitzLet's just merge Microsoft and SUSE, right? Marry the two for pargmatism.Sep 23 20:58
AlbertoPschestowitz, a real answer, not fudSep 23 20:58
AlbertoPschestowitz, is it wrong to use the right tool to do a job?Sep 23 20:59
schestowitzBecause it's all about tools. Forget the philosophy. Let it rot in the side.Sep 23 20:59
*benJIman wonders when schestowitz will learn to spell pragmatism.Sep 23 20:59
_DougbenJIman: Personally I would try and keep up with the latest distros. Like I have Windows and Suse and Ubuntu at work ..Sep 23 20:59
schestowitzAlbertoP: andwer what/Sep 23 20:59
schestowitzAlbertoP: answer what?Sep 23 20:59
AlbertoPschestowitz, is it wrong to use the right tool to do a job?Sep 23 20:59
benJIman_Doug: It is not applicable for my job at the moment.Sep 23 20:59
_DougAnd Mandriva and Yoper ..Sep 23 20:59
schestowitzAlbertoP: we're trying to accomplish something.Sep 23 21:00
_DougApplicaple, are you a real techie or what ?Sep 23 21:00
schestowitzHad RMS, for example, just used the 'best tool' where would SuSE be?Sep 23 21:00
AlbertoPthe correct answer is yes or no, though, and you're skipping the topicSep 23 21:00
schestowitzAnyhoo..Sep 23 21:00
twitterIt is always wrong to demand that others surrender their freedom to you.Sep 23 21:01
AlbertoPschestowitz, we are discussing of the adoption in real world industrial applications, not in your PC, where of course the situation IS differentSep 23 21:01
twitterThat is what's wrong with non free software.Sep 23 21:01
_DougbenJIman: so it's MONO on SuSE Linux only ... for you that is ?Sep 23 21:01
AlbertoPand yes, an OSS solution would be better, but in the meanwhile, would you prefer a windows only solution?Sep 23 21:01
twitterWhen you use it, you put yourself at risk for the kind of fuck around M$ dishes out.Sep 23 21:01
schestowitzYou make no progress this way.Sep 23 21:01
AlbertoPschestowitz, really?Sep 23 21:01
benJIman_Doug: I'm not sure what you mean by that, most of the development I do in my spare time is in java or suse-specific things like yast.Sep 23 21:02
schestowitzWatch WoW. Wine got it working, so no port... no code.Sep 23 21:02
AlbertoPare you so sure?Sep 23 21:02
schestowitzWhen you accept something with the flaws, you encourage no change.Sep 23 21:02
AlbertoPcould you by chance remember what makes RHEL successful?Sep 23 21:02
AlbertoPand you know, it is considered the industrial standard for Linux...Sep 23 21:02
_Dougso it's MONO on SuSE Linux only with YaST ..Sep 23 21:02
schestowitzI guess we should also expect USPTO, which is run by shenanigans, to just 'wake up' some morning and 'decide' ti's broken.Sep 23 21:02
twitterFreedom makes GNU/Linux successful.Sep 23 21:02
schestowitzWhy fight? Problems will fix themselves.Sep 23 21:02
benJIman_Doug: Mono has othing to do with either of those things, what are you talking about?Sep 23 21:02
AlbertoPschestowitz, you're not answeringSep 23 21:03
AlbertoPjust writing the usual sentencesSep 23 21:03
schestowitzAlbertoP: Red Hat gives Free software. Companies put stuff on top of it.Sep 23 21:03
_DougHave you no curiosity as to what the rest are doing, are you barred frm looking at other distros ?Sep 23 21:03
schestowitzIt's down to the companies to embrace the Red Hat idealogy.Sep 23 21:03
AlbertoPschestowitz, really?Sep 23 21:03
benJIman_Doug: I do follow the other distributions yes, I have several distributions installed in virtual machines.Sep 23 21:03
schestowitzAs Whitehurst stressed about 4 months ago, it's time for corps to start giving back more.Sep 23 21:03
AlbertoPand isn't RH providing certifications of compatibility to half of the world of linux commercial apps?Sep 23 21:04
AlbertoPnoooSep 23 21:04
schestowitzYes.Sep 23 21:04
AlbertoPso I don't see any differenceSep 23 21:04
schestowitzIt does not produce these.Sep 23 21:04
_Dougvirtual machines, yea, I know .. save the planet .. whatVM machine are you using ?Sep 23 21:04
AlbertoPahh rightSep 23 21:04
schestowitzIt gives a Free desktop/serverSep 23 21:04
AlbertoPRH didn't cooperate with IBM, eh no...Sep 23 21:04
benJIman_Doug: Virtualbox.Sep 23 21:04
twitterThat's a nice free one, Benji.Sep 23 21:05
schestowitzIt sells a product that's free. If the customers won't to bash it with a hammer, splendid!Sep 23 21:05
AlbertoPschestowitz, so we should close all the non-OSS companies?Sep 23 21:05
schestowitzNo, you can't.Sep 23 21:05
twitterThey will close themselves.Sep 23 21:05
AlbertoPjust because "it is so evil" to make money with software?Sep 23 21:05
schestowitzAsk Stallman for 'radical' opinionsSep 23 21:05
AlbertoPtwitter, no you're dreaming :)Sep 23 21:05
twitterBecause it is evil to make non free software demands of your users.Sep 23 21:06
schestowitzIn reality, you bring change by showing the way or protesting. You don't shoot.Sep 23 21:06
twitterNDAs are evil.Sep 23 21:06
_DougbenJIman: so get a Linux distro in the door at work, you are a true believe after all - YEA ?Sep 23 21:06
schestowitzGandhi had no napalm.Sep 23 21:06
cjhmm?Sep 23 21:06
AlbertoPschestowitz, actually the way is shown a lot more effectively from inside, as RH, Novell and other companies are doingSep 23 21:06
AlbertoPthe proof?Sep 23 21:06
schestowitzOg what?Sep 23 21:06
schestowitzOf what?Sep 23 21:06
twitterNovell is going under, what strength do they have to show?Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoPdon't you think MS admitting Linux is a good platform is important?Sep 23 21:07
benJIman_Doug: Sure, when an opportunity presents itself. We do have some RHEL and SLES servers I believe, never seen them though.Sep 23 21:07
schestowitzThe point I'm making is that you don't shoot companies that do blobs unless they shoot you.Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoPtwitter, under?Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoPOoSep 23 21:07
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_DougbenJIman: can two apps running on two guest Oses communicate with one another, on the one box ?Sep 23 21:07
schestowitzThat, for example, is why I hardly protest against Oracle as much as I protest against the Microsoft lobbies that now attack FOSS in the EUSep 23 21:07
twitteryeah, Albert, running out of money.  So is M$.Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoPtwitter, bring numbers pleaseSep 23 21:07
schestowitzMicrosoft actively works to suppress Free software.Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoPschestowitz, what a discoverySep 23 21:08
schestowitzAnd here you say that it's okay to just play nice with .NET and Windows.Sep 23 21:08
benJIman_Doug: I don't believe so at the moment. The networking is completely broken when running multiple virtualbox machines. If that were a problem for me I'd use something else.Sep 23 21:08
schestowitzReciprocity or coexistence is better.Sep 23 21:08
twitterNo one needs .net or windows.Sep 23 21:08
AlbertoPtwitter, lolSep 23 21:08
twitterit is better to ignore these things.Sep 23 21:08
schestowitzWorked well for IBM, which the FOSS world is 'cool' with, despite IBM's all-proprietary protfolio.Sep 23 21:08
AlbertoPok...I think I wasted too much time :)Sep 23 21:08
cjbenJIman: what's mono missing for you?  have you run moma on your assemblies?Sep 23 21:09
cjschestowitz: I seem to be somewhere in which territory?Sep 23 21:09
twitterany time Albert.Sep 23 21:09
AlbertoPtwitter, I still wait for numbers to prove N is going bankrupt ^^Sep 23 21:09
benJImancj: Mostly the (lol, )enterprise things.Sep 23 21:10
twitterGoogle search BN for it.Sep 23 21:10
twitterIf you don't object to using free software too much ..Sep 23 21:10
schestowitzAlbertoP: worried yet?Sep 23 21:10
cjbenJIman: ah... uhm, MS released those under a MS-pl recently, so you can use that implementationSep 23 21:10
AlbertoPoh no schestowitzSep 23 21:10
AlbertoP:)Sep 23 21:10
schestowitzWhy do you think Novell came to ballmer and Smith?Sep 23 21:10
AlbertoPI can live happy anywaySep 23 21:10
benJImancj: Not the application blocks.Sep 23 21:10
schestowitzJust some time after it had visited the bank, maybe for a load?Sep 23 21:10
benJImancj: Application Server, integration with biztalk, mssql reporting services, and such.Sep 23 21:10
schestowitzlon?Sep 23 21:10
AlbertoPschestowitz, hehe because it's business?Sep 23 21:10
AlbertoP:PSep 23 21:10
schestowitzAgh.. loan.Sep 23 21:10
twitterIf you don't need Novell, why serve them?Sep 23 21:11
AlbertoPbut right...business is evil ^^Sep 23 21:11
cjbenJIman: ah.  stuff with which I'm not familiar.  have you talked to miguel about it?Sep 23 21:11
AlbertoPtwitter, because they work OK?Sep 23 21:11
cjbenJIman: or sam?Sep 23 21:11
benJImancj: The library support and compiler are very good now I agree.Sep 23 21:11
trmancohttp://lists.compiz-fusion.org/pipermai...Sep 23 21:11
twitterno, it's not OK.Sep 23 21:11
_DougA Linux zealot examines Microsoft Vista ..Sep 23 21:11
_Doughttp://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensourc...Sep 23 21:11
schestowitzDon't feed the beast with the hand that beat you.Sep 23 21:11
AlbertoPtwitter, oh you think so?Sep 23 21:11
schestowitzBy embracing Microsoft's wares you give them power to go full EEE and ruin their #1 foe.Sep 23 21:12
benJImancj: Who is sam?Sep 23 21:12
_DougMiguel, you're on first names, well 'Linus' talks to me :]Sep 23 21:12
AlbertoPtwitter, could you explain?Sep 23 21:12
twitterYes, it is wrong to serve those who actively work against your and other people's freedom.Sep 23 21:12
schestowitzI don't speak in exaggerative toneSep 23 21:12
schestowitzSee Microsoft's SEC filing.Sep 23 21:12
cjbenJIman: http://port25.technet.com/archive/...Sep 23 21:12
benJIman_Doug: Miguel is his IRC nick.Sep 23 21:12
twitterI'd like to see that filing, anything interesting in it?Sep 23 21:12
benJImancj: Ah yes I have heard of him.Sep 23 21:12
schestowitzIf they can't stop or destory FOSS, they must be pushed to ZUne/XBox, i.e. massive losses all the way to bankruptcy.Sep 23 21:12
cj_Doug: heh, yes.  miguel is his nick, and we're on a first name basis :)Sep 23 21:12
_DougI know, I was just having a little joke, but I have had an email from Linus, really ..Sep 23 21:13
AlbertoPtwitter, my freedom does not depend on Novell and MicrosoftSep 23 21:13
schestowitztwitter: Let me get it Sep 23 21:13
cj_Doug: heh, he never replies to mine!Sep 23 21:13
AlbertoPor do you really believe that?Sep 23 21:13
twitterNovell and M$ are enemies of your freedom.  When you use their software you surrender it to them.Sep 23 21:13
schestowitzhttp://www. microsoft.com/msft/SEC/default.mspxSep 23 21:13
_Dougcj: what can I say, you is a ginga' !Sep 23 21:13
AlbertoPyou should stop reporting sentences written by others and think one minute...because those sentences were said in a context. Out of it, the mean nothing!Sep 23 21:14
cjginga'?Sep 23 21:14
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schestowitz"A prominent example of open source software is the Linux operating system...To the extent open source software gains increasing market acceptance, sales  of our products may decline, we may have to reduce the prices we charge for  our products, and revenue and operating margins may consequently decline. "Sep 23 21:14
cjAlbertoP: "M$" is a dead giveaway :)Sep 23 21:14
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AlbertoPcj, hehe...it was saving Novell from bankrupt one minute ago LOLSep 23 21:14
cjor MS could release the source to its kernel and then we'd have GNU/Windows :)Sep 23 21:15
AlbertoPanyway, I've to goSep 23 21:15
_Dougan ALi G. term for a 'white boy' ..Sep 23 21:15
benJImancj: I find their arguments much more convincing when they use names like "Sweaty Ballmer" too.Sep 23 21:15
schestowitzSweatyBSep 23 21:15
cjbenJIman: indeed.  it inspires... trust!Sep 23 21:15
schestowitzSteart warping names. :-) It's not Sweaty Ballmer. Never been like that.Sep 23 21:15
_DougAli: Is he married to da ginga wiv dee big tits?Sep 23 21:16
_Doughttp://www.boreme.com/boreme/fun...Sep 23 21:16
_Dougback in ten ..Sep 23 21:17
schestowitzBring popcorn.Sep 23 21:17
twitterSo, what's to see in all that ugly SEC stuff served poorly by IIS?Sep 23 21:18
schestowitzAs Blankenhorn puts it, numbers that don't add up.Sep 23 21:18
schestowitzhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2007Sep 23 21:19
schestowitz"Ironically the $45 billion bet on Yahoo, partly funded by debt, comes just as Microsoft is finally starting to make good on its decade-old promise of earning money beyond Office and Windows."Sep 23 21:19
schestowitz"Has anyone succeeded in buying-out a sector of the technology industry and making the whole worth more than the sum of its parts?"Sep 23 21:19
schestowitz"But this is going to end as all tragedies must, with tears. Steve Ballmer is getting taken for the biggest ride of his life, and one day he’s going to find himself dumped out of the limo by the side of the road wondering what happened."Sep 23 21:19
schestowitzAnd just the other day Microsoft's board gave an OK to tolerating debt.Sep 23 21:20
schestowitzFor those who are new to this: http://web.archive.org/web/20070308032343rn_2/www.seattl...Sep 23 21:21
twitterSeptember 30th is right around the corner.  We will see how they have done but I doubt it will be pretty, given all the buy back talk.Sep 23 21:22
schestowitzOctober 23rdSep 23 21:23
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twitterOh, that's a little further off.Sep 23 21:24
schestowitzThey announced the Webcast over the weekend or on Friday. I doubt they can cook the books so well at this stage. They failed twice in a row already... for the first time in ages.Sep 23 21:24
twitter Microsoft management offers the following guidance for the quarter ending September 30, 2008:                                             Revenue is expected to be in the range of $14.7 billion to $14.9 billion ... blah blah blahSep 23 21:24
schestowitzWell, they buy back stock.Sep 23 21:25
schestowitzThey also buy more companies that actually have existing revenue (note: not necessarily profit)Sep 23 21:25
twitterFrom $60 billion to debt in what, three years?  I can draw a line to where that goes.Sep 23 21:26
schestowitzMicrosoft grows itself too much (not integration), so it ends up overweight with too many employees, not much in savings (soon debt). Even what's-his-name... the RSS guy... he left them after he had seen what a mess it is from inside.Sep 23 21:26
schestowitzI'd have to find that post some time.Sep 23 21:26
schestowitztwitter: and the stock didn't move, despite the buybacks.Sep 23 21:27
twitteroh my, soon it will fall with the rest of them.Sep 23 21:27
schestowitzt has a plan B (not B for Ballmer)Sep 23 21:28
schestowitz"Intellectual property is the next software." -Nathan Myhrvold, Microsoft patent trollSep 23 21:29
schestowitzFull statement here http://www.newsweek.com/id/55777/page/2 . That's why it's so important to fight the Novell patent deal and the likes of it.Sep 23 21:29
zoobabI need your help to debug this:Sep 23 21:33
zoobabhttp://stopsoftwarepatents.org/draft:petition3Sep 23 21:33
schestowitzOKSep 23 21:33
schestowitzContent or grammar/spelling?Sep 23 21:34
zoobabcontentSep 23 21:35
zoobabI can tell you where it is attackedSep 23 21:35
zoobabbroadiness is hard to explainSep 23 21:36
zoobabexplanation 4 is definitely hard to explainSep 23 21:36
schestowitzOkay, let me look. I'm locking it.Sep 23 21:37
schestowitzShort setences.Sep 23 21:39
schestowitzShort sentences. Intentional?Sep 23 21:39
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zoobabyesSep 23 21:40
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schestowitzIt's like a presentation.Sep 23 21:40
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zoobabit isSep 23 21:40
schestowitzWhy notitimise it?Sep 23 21:40
zoobabit is aimed to convinceSep 23 21:40
schestowitzOkay.Sep 23 21:40
zoobabnotitimise?Sep 23 21:40
twittersoftware patents are always broad because software is just a list of instructions.Sep 23 21:40
twitterpatenting a list of instructions is patenting a business method.Sep 23 21:41
zoobabyesSep 23 21:41
twitteror an ideaSep 23 21:41
zoobabit is like patenting "orders"Sep 23 21:41
zoobabpatent people will say it is similar to patenting a processSep 23 21:42
schestowitz notitimise =  not itimise? (typoSep 23 21:42
twitterpatents are supposed to be for inventions, non obvious constructions, not discoveries or methods like putting things in alphabetical order.Sep 23 21:42
schestowitzitemiseSep 23 21:42
schestowitzEveyrthing is a process.Sep 23 21:43
schestowitzOr a series of thought.Sep 23 21:43
schestowitzZoobab, I'll find you a post.Sep 23 21:43
zoobabpost?Sep 23 21:43
zoobabI like numbering pointsSep 23 21:43
zoobabnumberedSep 23 21:44
schestowitzslated.org's right to own knowledge : http://slated.org/the_right_to_own_knowledge (it explains it clearly)Sep 23 21:44
zoobabbut bullets are fine tooSep 23 21:44
twitterThere's a difference between a physical process and how you order bits around on your computer.Sep 23 21:44
zoobabthis is what the Red Dove is aboutSep 23 21:47
schestowitzPunch cards... yours is too 'similar' to mine.Sep 23 21:50
zoobab:)Sep 23 21:51
_Dougthe system is going down ...........Sep 23 21:52
_Doug..........Sep 23 21:52
_Doug....Sep 23 21:52
_Doug..Sep 23 21:52
_Doug.Sep 23 21:52
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zoobabthe patent system is going down ......Sep 23 21:53
schestowitzI don't understand why you put inventor in scare quotes but not troll.Sep 23 21:53
zoobabahSep 23 21:53
schestowitzIAM took the piss out of your (well, sort of) for using that word.Sep 23 21:53
schestowitzI think I suggested "so-called "patent trolls""Sep 23 21:54
zoobabpatent peopleSep 23 21:54
schestowitzAt least in the first appearance.Sep 23 21:54
schestowitz'Collectors'Sep 23 21:54
schestowitzSome people collect stamps.Sep 23 21:54
schestowitzSome people collect ideas.Sep 23 21:54
schestowitzSome people attack people with guns.Sep 23 21:54
schestowitzSome people attack people with pieces of paperSep 23 21:54
schestowitzSome people invent a typesetting solution.Sep 23 21:55
schestowitzAnd some people 'invest' a paging key.Sep 23 21:55
schestowitzinventSep 23 21:55
zoobabInventors in this context means patent attorneysSep 23 21:56
schestowitzYes.Sep 23 21:56
schestowitzI make this typo a lot though. I can't type inventor.Sep 23 21:57
zoobabcan you close your lock?Sep 23 21:57
schestowitzAlmost the same thing though.Sep 23 21:57
zoobabLarge companies views positively the exclusion of competitors from the market. But they have to face negative effects of software patents, such as litigation costs and damages, potential product removal, and shift of ressources from the R&D (Research&Development) to the P&L (Patents&Litigation) department.Sep 23 21:57
schestowitzWait, almost done.Sep 23 21:57
zoobabI would replace it by:Sep 23 21:57
schestowitzI get disracted by comments in BNSep 23 21:57
zoobab Large companies views positively the exclusion of competitors from the market. But they have to face negative effects of software patents, such as litigation costs, damages, royalties, potential product removal, and shift of ressources from the  R&D (Research&Development) to the P&L (Patents&Litigation) department.Sep 23 21:58
schestowitzOk, I didn't finish, but you can see the diff.Sep 23 21:58
zoobabBN?Sep 23 21:58
schestowitzI unlocked the pageSep 23 21:58
schestowitzBoycottNovellSep 23 21:58
schestowitzLame site name, not my idea...Sep 23 21:58
zoobabI received the tshirts and the stickers todaySep 23 21:59
zoobabthe stickers are not that perfectSep 23 21:59
schestowitzLF gives t-shirts too now.Sep 23 22:00
schestowitzhttp://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS95...Sep 23 22:00
zoobab" keeps a collective legal defense fund"Sep 23 22:01
schestowitzFun days of Freedom, eh?Sep 23 22:01
schestowitzThey used to call them crazies, not they fight them by corrupting politicians.Sep 23 22:02
schestowitzThere's some more ugly stuff today like ACTA and telecom. I might post some to BN, but it's OT.Sep 23 22:02
zoobabthere is a talk about ACTA tomorrow in the dutch parliamentSep 23 22:03
zoobabI will try to schedule an AT command to dump itSep 23 22:03
schestowitzIs it not you who coined the term "Soviet Internet"?Sep 23 22:03
zoobabit was meSep 23 22:03
schestowitzIt made the rounds.Sep 23 22:03
zoobabnow you have the chinese versionSep 23 22:03
zoobabhttp://chineseinternet.wikidot.com/Sep 23 22:03
schestowitzIs it blocked yet?Sep 23 22:03
schestowitzBy the Wall?Sep 23 22:04
zoobabthe wall is comingSep 23 22:04
schestowitztake cova! http://www.zonaplayer.com/page/recensioni/scree...Sep 23 22:04
zoobabthe wall will be there to protect you from unlawful contentSep 23 22:04
zoobabbut I am sure most MEPs will be listed thereSep 23 22:05
zoobaband they will regret itSep 23 22:05
schestowitzLOL "Sarkozy told us that it was possible to shutdown peer to peer websites. We can prevent those peer2peer websites to be accessible in France. They do it well in China." Sep 23 22:05
schestowitzSarko and McCreevy...Sep 23 22:05
zoobabSarko even wants to ban P2P softwareSep 23 22:06
zoobabJusqu'alors discret sur le sujet, Nicolas Sarkozy est lui aussi entré en piste en se déclarant prêt à €« chasser les logiciels €» de téléchargement qu'il juge illégaux et à se doter d'outils juridiques pour lutter contre les sites les exploitants. Tout un programme... Pour expliquer sa position, Nicolas Sarkozy évoque une concertation effectuée avec des €« représentants €» du monde de la musique - en particulier le président d'Universal FrSep 23 22:06
schestowitz"They do it well"Sep 23 22:06
schestowitzAs in: "they do it bad"... like Ghetto slang.Sep 23 22:06
schestowitzCan p2p ban Sarko in Soviet Russia?Sep 23 22:07
zoobabit depends if they use Trusted ComputingSep 23 22:07
zoobab:-)Sep 23 22:07
zoobabbut for sure the Soviet Internet made them madSep 23 22:07
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080207...Sep 23 22:08
schestowitz"RIAA boss: Move copyright filtering from ISPs to users’ PCs"Sep 23 22:08
zoobabyou can listen to the audio recordings of IMCO, it is funSep 23 22:08
schestowitzThank goodness for GNU/Linux. That's what control is abouit.Sep 23 22:08
zoobabsome MEPs wanted to make this kind of spyware mandatory in Internet users PCsSep 23 22:08
zoobabinstalling such soft is more efficientSep 23 22:08
schestowitzIn Germany it is, no?Sep 23 22:09
zoobabinstalling such soft is more efficient then on the ISP aloneSep 23 22:09
zoobabthey triedSep 23 22:09
schestowitzAustria too seem to have had 'people' petition for it. Spyware and back doors... as standard.Sep 23 22:09
zoobabthe Federal TrjanSep 23 22:09
schestowitzBecause of "terrorism" and "think about the children"...Sep 23 22:09
schestowitzThis one in the news today: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/23/mal...Sep 23 22:09
schestowitzJail for two years! "He's one of three "dissidents" arrested in what the opposition called "a sign of panic by the embattled administration of Abdullah Badawi". The trio of detainees is made up by blogger Syed Azidi Syed Aziz and Chinese-language journalist Tan Hoon Cheng."Sep 23 22:10
schestowitzIn Russia it's the police that 'took down' a blogger 3 weeks ago. Beware the MS 'police' (BSA).Sep 23 22:11
zoobabPedo-pron is being used by the content mafia:Sep 23 22:11
schestowitzYes, I know.Sep 23 22:11
schestowitzhttp://antitrust.slated.org/media-defender/index.htmlSep 23 22:11
zoobabPedopornography, forSep 23 22:11
zoobabinstance, will be allowed (no restriction on end user) and only theSep 23 22:11
zoobabjudicial judge after a while would be authorized to prosecute the endSep 23 22:11
zoobabuser.  TRAUTMANN oral amendment is only replicating the same consequences.Sep 23 22:11
zoobabhttp://www.odebi.org/new2/?p=489&langswitch_lang=enSep 23 22:12
zoobabYou have to see this video:Sep 23 22:12
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zoobabhttp://netzpolitik.org/2008/live-...Sep 23 22:13
zoobab13:13Sep 23 22:14
zoobabToubon is too muchSep 23 22:14
zoobabI was on the back of the roomSep 23 22:14
zoobablaughing for 15 minutes non-stopSep 23 22:14
zoobabI was unable to stopSep 23 22:14
schestowitzGermanSep 23 22:15
schestowitzYou speak German?Sep 23 22:15
zoobabneinSep 23 22:15
AlbertoPschestowitz, Geeko could translate for you ^_^Sep 23 22:15
schestowitzIs this the right vid?Sep 23 22:15
zoobabbut I understand it a bit with my dutchSep 23 22:15
*AlbertoP hopes Geeko is known :PSep 23 22:16
schestowitzGecko?Sep 23 22:16
schestowitzLizards?Sep 23 22:16
AlbertoPGeeko is the suse mascotteSep 23 22:17
AlbertoPthe chameleon :)Sep 23 22:17
AlbertoPand remember...it's the chameleon who eat the butterfly, not the opposite ;-)Sep 23 22:19
schestowitzWhat about Steevo?Sep 23 22:19
schestowitzIt eats everything. Did you see that tongue?Sep 23 22:19
AlbertoPhum? Ballmer?Sep 23 22:19
AlbertoPyou found the wrong guy, if you expect I throw shit at MS as a whole :)Sep 23 22:20
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Sep 23 22:20
AlbertoPI disagree with a lot of what they do, but that's another storySep 23 22:20
schestowitzIt's the easiest place from which to gain market.Sep 23 22:21
schestowitzFor Novell too.Sep 23 22:21
schestowitzAlthough Novell does not seem intrested.Sep 23 22:21
schestowitzIt hooked up with Microsoft to eat some Red hat instead.Sep 23 22:21
AlbertoPhum?Sep 23 22:21
AlbertoPwhich space?Sep 23 22:21
schestowitzSo now Geeko and Steevo are both pulling the tongue at the few that care about Free software.Sep 23 22:22
AlbertoPsorry, placeSep 23 22:22
schestowitzSUSE is just a Windows application now. Hyper-vell, remember?Sep 23 22:23
schestowitz"we agreed that SUSE would run as a guest under Windows..." (or something along those lines)Sep 23 22:23
zoobabRedhat just bought the company behind KVM for a lot of dollarsSep 23 22:24
AlbertoPnah, Novell is just being pragmatic (which means "base on facts"). They know MS is a reality, that a lot of people depend on it, and they try to work with it.It has nothing to do with being against OSS.Sep 23 22:24
schestowitzFinancially pragmatic maybe... better become a slave than die.Sep 23 22:24
AlbertoPschestowitz, the agreement includes also the opposite direction: windows running as a guest on SLESep 23 22:25
schestowitzWasn't that the same with Corel at the time. And Robbins (Gentoo)Sep 23 22:25
AlbertoPNovell has been selling XEN drivers for quite a bit €¬€¬Sep 23 22:25
zoobab"Free software developers see their software becoming non-free with the collection of royalties."Sep 23 22:25
schestowitzAlbertoP: not quite.Sep 23 22:25
schestowitzWatch the arrangement.Sep 23 22:25
zoobabgoing to sleepSep 23 22:26
schestowitzzoobab: that too.Sep 23 22:26
schestowitzgnSep 23 22:26
AlbertoPschestowitz, hum?Sep 23 22:26
AlbertoPlink?Sep 23 22:26
schestowitzLater.Sep 23 22:26
AlbertoPah right ^^Sep 23 22:26
schestowitzLet me finish in USENET.Sep 23 22:26
schestowitzPleas.eSep 23 22:26
AlbertoPokSep 23 22:26
zoobabI have to wake up a bit ealry tomorrowSep 23 22:27
AlbertoPhowever the link is here: http://www.novell.com/products/vmdriverpack/Sep 23 22:29
AlbertoPand SLE offers the driver :PSep 23 22:29
*mib_n2u95d55 (i=40a06f9a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-df0e6085bc3c51bb) has joined #boycottnovellSep 23 22:30
zoobabhttp://www.odebi.org/new2/?p=489&langswitch_lang=enSep 23 22:30
schestowitzAlbertoP: it's about how they serve 'solutions'Sep 23 22:31
schestowitzI'll find the links later.Sep 23 22:31
schestowitzSee the PR about Dell OEMing Hyper-Vell in the mean time.Sep 23 22:32
AlbertoPschestowitz, don't you think it's the customer to decide that?Sep 23 22:32
schestowitzNo.Sep 23 22:32
AlbertoPOoSep 23 22:32
schestowitzLike a customer can buy a PC with FreeDOS.Sep 23 22:32
schestowitzPeople are laxySep 23 22:32
AlbertoPschestowitz, we are speaking of big companies as customers.Sep 23 22:33
schestowitzYes, we do.Sep 23 22:33
schestowitzThey can happily use Red Hat.Sep 23 22:33
AlbertoPhehe to pay vmware?Sep 23 22:33
schestowitzNo, to have Smith and the pals knocking on the door dem anding royalties "like Novell"Sep 23 22:34
AlbertoPand to virtualize windows on it anyway, because they need it, useless to say the contrarySep 23 22:34
schestowitz“People that use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual property, in a sense have an obligation to compensate us.”-- Steve BallmerSep 23 22:34
schestowitzCiting Novell as an exampleSep 23 22:34
schestowitz.Novell stepped up... blah blah...Sep 23 22:34
AlbertoPhehe that's something I don't care aboutSep 23 22:35
schestowitz"We believe every Linux customer basically has an undisclosed balance-sheet liability."Sep 23 22:35
schestowitzThat's right, you don't want to.Sep 23 22:35
schestowitzTell this to people who suffer racketeering for using GNU/Linux. That happend already.Sep 23 22:35
AlbertoPthe facts say managing suse is a lot easier than managing RH, that's what count...the rest is philosophy, which should be kept out when you evaluate a productSep 23 22:35
schestowitzThe media doesn't cover it as if there's some DNA in all those rackets.Sep 23 22:35
AlbertoPracketeering?Sep 23 22:35
AlbertoPproofs?Sep 23 22:36
schestowitzAlbertoP: That Novell doesn't give a s* abouy freedom you needn't remind me.Sep 23 22:36
schestowitzSearch BN. I have many example.Sep 23 22:36
AlbertoPschestowitz, hehe well, you have a bit of confusion. I'm not novell ^^Sep 23 22:36
schestowitzMicrosoft says so.Sep 23 22:36
schestowitzSaid.Sep 23 22:36
schestowitzI know,but you're her defending them.Sep 23 22:36
AlbertoPI just try to explain you how a decision is taken when you select a software in a productive environment. You look at costs and qualitySep 23 22:37
schestowitzNovell sells solutions and advice.Sep 23 22:37
schestowitzHovsepsian said what he said about his 'arrangement' with ballmer.Sep 23 22:38
AlbertoPagain, that's businessSep 23 22:38
AlbertoPand frankly N is making a lot more for linux with all the support to projects than a lot of other peopleSep 23 22:39
schestowitzHow do you knowSep 23 22:39
AlbertoPhow?Sep 23 22:39
schestowitzYes.Sep 23 22:39
schestowitzDo you know that the SEC paid Novell a visit?Sep 23 22:40
AlbertoPcount the full time N employee working on open appsSep 23 22:40
schestowitzDo you consider infusions from Microsoft 'business'?Sep 23 22:40
*mib_n2u95d55 has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Sep 23 22:40
schestowitzI do... as much as I consider the US giving Iraq/Iran weapons to kill one another.Sep 23 22:40
AlbertoPschestowitz, do you know the meaning of what you write? because you use EMPTY wordsSep 23 22:40
AlbertoPinfusions?Sep 23 22:40
AlbertoPin what?Sep 23 22:40
schestowitzMicrosoft is fuelling Red Hat/Novell Linux wars... where only Mcirosoft IP is the winner.Sep 23 22:40
schestowitzIBM tried that too.Sep 23 22:41
AlbertoPhum and do you see this huge N/RH war somewhere?Sep 23 22:41
schestowitzBut for other reasons... to prevent price-fixing AFAIKSep 23 22:41
schestowitzYeSep 23 22:41
schestowitzYesSep 23 22:41
schestowitzNot just me.Sep 23 22:41
AlbertoPit's market competition, but behind the scenes they cooperate to the same OSS projects ^^Sep 23 22:41
schestowitzSee GL, SJVN... anywhere that know the stuff.Sep 23 22:41
schestowitz*knowsSep 23 22:41
schestowitzFine, but you must understand how FOSS fits into this.Sep 23 22:42
schestowitzNovell is not FOSSSep 23 22:42
AlbertoPah right, no....Sep 23 22:42
schestowitzNovell is a proprietary s/w Micfrosoft partner... with a portion of FOSS... small portion... like BMCSep 23 22:42
AlbertoPhow many kde developers are paid by Novell?Sep 23 22:42
AlbertoPhow many gnome developers?Sep 23 22:42
schestowitzB add examples...Sep 23 22:42
schestowitzDoesn't matter.Sep 23 22:43
AlbertoPah rightSep 23 22:43
AlbertoPLOLSep 23 22:43
schestowitzNovell needs them.Sep 23 22:43
AlbertoPneeds?Sep 23 22:43
schestowitzIt uses the codeSep 23 22:43
schestowitzIt doesn't mean the trimuph of freedom is a goal.Sep 23 22:43
AlbertoPNovell could use the code without giving one cent back, for your informationSep 23 22:43
schestowitzThe FSFG too stresses that corps don't seek  a goal other than money.Sep 23 22:43
AlbertoPthey could kill opensuse, ignore the community, just being really "closed"Sep 23 22:43
schestowitzThat's a conflicting and antithetical route.Sep 23 22:43
schestowitzWOn't work, AlbertoP Sep 23 22:44
AlbertoPare you sure?Sep 23 22:44
schestowitzYes, companies want $$. They must, 'cause of investors.Sep 23 22:44
schestowitzNovell is different because of legacy.Sep 23 22:44
AlbertoPand so?Sep 23 22:45
schestowitzbrbSep 23 22:45
AlbertoPisn't RH profitable?Sep 23 22:45
*schestowitz backSep 23 22:47
schestowitzI don't know or care.Sep 23 22:47
AlbertoPwell, it is the first and only company being profitable thanks to linux ^^Sep 23 22:48
*AlbertoP has quit ("Sto andando via")Sep 23 22:48
*ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellSep 23 23:36
*AlbertoP (n=AlbertoP@pdpc/supporter/active/AlbertoP) has joined #boycottnovellSep 23 23:51
*AlbertoP appears againSep 23 23:51
twitterIBM, Google and many other honest companies are also making lots of money with free software.Sep 23 23:57
MinceRgoogle is hardly honestSep 23 23:58
MinceRthey do some good things and some evil thingsSep 23 23:58
twittersays the Mincer?Sep 23 23:58
MinceRyes, i said soSep 23 23:58
twitterlike what, besides cooperating with China?Sep 23 23:58
twitterShaking up M$?Sep 23 23:59
twitterHa ha.Sep 23 23:59
twitterSweaty B is going to throw a chair.Sep 23 23:59


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