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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 23rd, 2008 - Part 1

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*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 23 00:15
twitterOhLoh?  1.5% for C# is almost crappy enough to be true.Sep 23 00:17
schestowitzI'll write about it tomorrow.Sep 23 00:17
schestowitzIt's the neighbours you don't want.Sep 23 00:18
twitterHo, ho, ho, now they offer PhDs in FUD.  http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid...Sep 23 00:24
twitterWhat assholes.Sep 23 00:26
schestowitzOld news.Sep 23 00:26
schestowitzThey have been doing such stuff for a while.Sep 23 00:26
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/08/trust-...Sep 23 00:27
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schestowitzOh, that's really nice. I asked Sutor about IBM and patents here < http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=2599 > and he won't even approve the comment because he's afraid of the question.Sep 23 07:05
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schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/20762/1148/ "No matter the amount that someone will have to pay for downloading the codecs, this means one thing - Ubuntu is no longer free. It is a commercial distribution. One can indulge in semantics all one wishes but a distribution which cannot play a DVD is something that nobody will use these days."Sep 23 08:35
schestowitzEven Castro 'gets' Ubuntu: http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=848966Sep 23 08:43
kentmaOne wonders just who Mr Shuttleworth is trying to please...Sep 23 08:43
schestowitzToo many people. He can't make everyone happy.Sep 23 08:44
kentmaHe might be looking for a way into Businesses here.  Perhaps this is the only route in the US, where playing DVDs is, apparently, illegal unless you pay an additional tax.Sep 23 08:45
schestowitzThe problem is that Dellbuntu buyers in the UK pay that tax too, without an option to opt out.Sep 23 08:47
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schestowitzHm... it's disappointing to find Daniel Eran using the Gartnersofts to FUD Android on its launch day < http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/09... >. The Partner Group also attacked iPhone along with IDC, so why does he befriend their oracle-like spew?Sep 23 09:17
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benJImanSam Varghese in trolling shocker.Sep 23 09:58
schestowitz*nod*Sep 23 09:59
schestowitzThe headline is the giveaway, the body is OK from what I've seen. it's almost as though he calls Ubuntu users "virgins"Sep 23 10:00
schestowitzhttp://www.kroah.com/log/linux/lpc_2008...Sep 23 10:04
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chrisleesTop-5 Boycott Novell phrases:Sep 23 11:28
chrislees5. SCOSep 23 11:28
chrislees4. Illegal MonopolySep 23 11:28
chrislees3. MonoSep 23 11:28
chrislees2. ISO fast-tracking OOXML approval processSep 23 11:28
chrislees1. Microsoft ProxySep 23 11:28
chrisleesNow here's a transcript from our IRC channel...Sep 23 11:28
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zoobabhttp://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-91368/microsoft-recycles-...Sep 23 11:32
schestowitzAre these hired shills?Sep 23 11:34
schestowitzI mean, having seen how Microsoft hired shills via LawMedia, it's a legitimate question.Sep 23 11:34
zoobabthose are their Business Partners NetworksSep 23 11:42
zoobabbecause we have friends from inside :-)Sep 23 11:42
schestowitzzoobab: you want to see http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122211669...Sep 23 11:42
schestowitzI also mailed you another one. The Google News link was broken (WSJ), so I had to scoop it up differently. Might IBM quit ISO?Sep 23 11:43
zoobabhttp://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-9...Sep 23 11:43
schestowitzAh!Sep 23 11:43
zoobabI think they might quit ECMA fasterSep 23 11:43
schestowitzWhat?!?!Sep 23 11:43
schestowitzThey were in ECMA?Sep 23 11:43
zoobabyou are not subscribed to the RSS feed?Sep 23 11:43
zoobabof course they wereSep 23 11:43
zoobabthe were aloneSep 23 11:43
schestowitzI was appalled that they were with CompTIA in the distant past.Sep 23 11:43
zoobabthey were alone against OOXMLSep 23 11:44
schestowitzzoobab: I am, just not reached it yet.Sep 23 11:44
zoobaball the other ones were capturedSep 23 11:44
schestowitzSun too?Sep 23 11:44
schestowitzWhy didn't /Sun/ protest?Sep 23 11:46
schestowitzhttp://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14764211 "Open Document Format (ODF) could find its way as becoming an open standard for e-governance projects by the Indian government and help its supporters grab key government IT business, according to government officials and industry sources."Sep 23 11:48
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berryLooks like the American tax _payer_ is gonna lose some $9000: http://beranger.org/index.php?pag...Sep 23 12:01
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080...Sep 23 12:01
schestowitzHey, benJIman Sep 23 12:01
schestowitzUK too.Sep 23 12:01
schestowitzhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics...Sep 23 12:02
berryThe UK doesn't have a real economy anymore :-)Sep 23 12:02
schestowitz"He was speaking after an influential report said that Britain may have to borrow €£90 billion next year – almost twice as much as the Chancellor had expected – to deal with the ramifications of the global credit crisis."Sep 23 12:02
schestowitz51st state. :-pSep 23 12:02
benJImanI don't know why you're worried about it, you're presumably not paying tax.Sep 23 12:02
berryI'm just a hypocrite ;-)Sep 23 12:03
kentmabenJIman: I think you need to learn some economics ...Sep 23 12:03
schestowitzbenJIman: trolling again, eh?Sep 23 12:03
kentma... instead of reading "teach yourself economics", which would be a better bet :-)Sep 23 12:05
benJIman^,^Sep 23 12:05
schestowitzI ping the wrong person b-e-AUTOCOMPLETE.Sep 23 12:05
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twitter$9000, they can take it from the money I don't have for the occupation of Iraq.Sep 23 13:13
schestowitztwitter: I attributed here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/23/inde...Sep 23 13:18
twitter:)Sep 23 13:21
twitterI think you meant that there's no evidence M$ funded the Stanford course, not that the predatory practices advocated in it were "innocent"Sep 23 13:25
schestowitzWell, yeah..Sep 23 13:27
schestowitzI didn't take ambiguity into consideration.Sep 23 13:28
twitterThe whole point of the class, and most M$ propaganda, is that these anti-social practices are natural, prevalent and deserving of reward.Sep 23 13:29
twitterCopyright and patent injustice stands on people believing that propaganda.Sep 23 13:30
schestowitzWell, that too. People can justify selfish action in many ways. In his own eyes, Gates thinks he's a hero saving the world with binaries.Sep 23 13:31
schestowitzLikewise, people who work in telemarketing believe they bring benefit to aociety.Sep 23 13:32
twitterSadly enough, most people think M$ is a legitimate business and a net benefit to society.  I'm not sure Gates is so naive.  He has to be aware of the negative effects of patents on medicine, yet he still pushes them.Sep 23 13:33
schestowitzVocally too. Let me find something.Sep 23 13:36
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3...Sep 23 13:36
twitterThe only person I know who did telemarketing realized what they were doing but did it anyway.  She later dug through the credit records of all the people she knew and memorized embarrassing details.Sep 23 13:36
schestowitzBut wait... it's missing the part where he equated software patents to drug patents, IIRC.Sep 23 13:37
schestowitzGates: '"I think if you invent drugs, you should be able to charge for them [...] that may seem radical." http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2008/04/...Sep 23 13:38
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schestowitzTo gates, software=drugs. It figures.Sep 23 13:39
schestowitzBill Gates: “They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.”Sep 23 13:40
twitterGates taxes things that people need.  The way he does it destroys value instead of creating it.Sep 23 13:42
twitterRecreational drug use has been a successful troll for Mr. Gates.  It trivializes the harm he does and stigmatizes his opponents.Sep 23 13:44
twitterInformation is more like oxygen or water than recreational drugs and other entertainment.  The copyright warriors do the same thing by accusing their free press opponents of being "pirates" who just want cheap entertainment.Sep 23 13:45
schestowitzDrugs as software: a poor, yet self-serving, analogy.Sep 23 13:52
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twitter:)Sep 23 14:42
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PetoKrausah, i forgot to tell youSep 23 14:42
PetoKrausvirgin didn't set us up an account, because both of us are running linuxSep 23 14:43
PetoKrausand they needed windows to do thatSep 23 14:43
PetoKrausso, i have to spend money on registration. Dickheads.Sep 23 14:43
PetoKraus(spend money -> call them by phone)Sep 23 14:43
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twitterha ha, http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Conservative_commentator_Bill_O...Sep 23 16:10
twitternasty, they used ' in the url.Sep 23 16:11
twitterhttp://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?...Sep 23 16:11
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twitterApache on Windows, a hyped combination of doomSep 23 16:11
MinceRlolSep 23 16:16
MinceRat least it isn't iis on windowsSep 23 16:16
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schestowitztwitter: yes, I checked that some days ago.Sep 23 16:19
schestowitzIt's Apache on Winders.Sep 23 16:19
schestowitzPetoKraus: you get what you pay for. [sarcasm /]Sep 23 16:20
PetoKrausheheSep 23 16:21
PetoKrausschestowitz: yeah, i've been calling them right nowSep 23 16:21
PetoKrausthe woman said the only OS they support is WindozeSep 23 16:21
schestowitz*LOL* Just got back. Got an E-mail from Mary Jo Foley... about AstroTurfing.Sep 23 16:21
PetoKraus5 minutes later she says - our system is really slowed downSep 23 16:21
twitterthat should be interestingSep 23 16:22
_DougSCO Seems to Be Trying to Ramp Up AutoZone ..Sep 23 16:24
_Doughttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...Sep 23 16:24
_Doug"Remind me again of what exactly Autozone is allegidly guilty of. Writing their own app on top of OpenServer and then transferign it to Red HAt ?"Sep 23 16:24
schestowitzClinging onto anything.Sep 23 16:26
schestowitzYork! IBM! Our header files! The UNIX IP... now Autozone... please, give us time, your honour, we'll find some weapon... somewhere.Sep 23 16:27
_DougThe whole case is an excercise in legalistic obsfucation and fud, but burried under it all are some basic technical answers ..Sep 23 16:29
_DougWhat did Autozone allegidly do, technically speaking ?Sep 23 16:30
schestowitzDoesn't matter. Will _take time to find out_. That's the 'beauty' of it.Sep 23 16:31
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_DougIt does matter, as without such answers SCO can go on filing responses to responceses to responses as to what A said B said that misintrepreted what D said ..Sep 23 16:32
schestowitzYes, that's my point. That's what SCO wants.Sep 23 16:34
_DougSCO are happy to continue in litigation, that's the whole point of the exercise ..Sep 23 16:34
schestowitzThey file many motions (or 'many') to delay because they /might/ get a cash infusion.Sep 23 16:34
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schestowitz_Doug: you would too had you had no products. They are toast, but they serves the interests of some others now.Sep 23 16:35
_Doug" the limited discovery ordered by this Court has uncovered extensive copying  .. of .. SCO proprietary OpenServer code"Sep 23 16:35
_DougOK, show me the CODE ...Sep 23 16:36
_Doug"Mr. Celmer's actual testimony was that AutoZone's purpose was to change the source code for all of AutoZone's programs such that they could be recompiled to work on Linux, not to modify AutoZone's binaries to work on Linux as stated by SCO in its report"Sep 23 16:39
_Doughttp://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.p...Sep 23 16:39
_DougSo, why invoke AutoZone just right now ?Sep 23 16:40
schestowitzHey, what if someone paid a shiny one to AutoZone to 'play along'?Sep 23 16:41
schestowitzThink about it. There are some $companies out there who would benefit from guilt-fakers.Sep 23 16:41
_DougI don't follow ?Sep 23 16:41
_DougSCO sent the AutoZone judge a letter .. what if anytthing is AutoZone doing to 'play along' ?Sep 23 16:42
schestowitz“I saw what appeared to be a word-for-word copy of about every third line of code in the central module of the Linux kernel” — Rob Enderle (regarding SCO)Sep 23 16:42
_Dougsupposition counceler: motion denied ...Sep 23 16:42
schestowitzsupposition canceler :-)Sep 23 16:43
schestowitz[Allow | Deny] Pick! Quick!Sep 23 16:43
*MinceR picks the |Sep 23 16:44
_Doughttp://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=scoxq.pk $3,349Sep 23 16:44
_DougWhat *is* SCO currently earning in the market place, apart from cash infusions from 'investors' ..Sep 23 16:46
schestowitzME.INC?Sep 23 16:46
_DougWhere is Me Inc getting its revenue from?Sep 23 16:49
schestowitzThis is weird... just got some mail assigning me to review papers. WTF? Are they looking for free labour?Sep 23 16:50
schestowitz"A reviewer account has been created for you on Concepts in Magnetic Resonance Part B - Manuscript Central site for online submission and review."Sep 23 16:50
schestowitz_Doug: didn't we talk about Me Inc before? (in IRC)Sep 23 16:52
_Doug"Me, Inc., 355 South 520 West, Suite 100, Lindon, Utah"Sep 23 16:53
_Doug"Canopy Office Building II, 355 South 520 West, Lindon, Utah"Sep 23 16:53
_Doug:)Sep 23 16:53
schestowitze did. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/24/irc-log-...Sep 23 16:53
schestowitzI then wrote about it here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0...Sep 23 16:54
schestowitz:-S Me Inc is in China, no?Sep 23 16:54
schestowitzMaybe it's a shell company created by SCO to serve as pseudo 'customer' ;-) [sarcasm /]Sep 23 16:54
_DougNO WAY: you are soo cynical .. :oSep 23 16:55
schestowitzThe LF has just grown a bit: http://www.finextra.com/fullstory.asp?id=19022Sep 23 16:55
schestowitzA friend of mine says that Microsoft's main money flow (revenue and all) is buying and selling its own stock.Sep 23 16:56
_DougWell, people can say what they want ..Sep 23 16:57
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_DougIF MS tanks right now then the whole IT sector wil sink with it ..Sep 23 16:58
_DougToo many people have invested in it ..Sep 23 16:58
schestowitzNo, _Doug. That would not happen.Sep 23 16:59
schestowitzThe wealth was never distributed equally anyway.Sep 23 16:59
schestowitzLet me look something up.Sep 23 16:59
_DougPersonally if I wanted to make money out of the Desktop, I would sell my own stack or buy MS shares. Apple is content to be a niche player ..Sep 23 16:59
schestowitzapc magazine on what if Microsoft disappeared: http://apcmag.com/2007_a_world_without_microsoft.htmSep 23 17:00
_Douga stack being: a multi-media desktop + my own Operating System + my own Telecom company + my own content ...Sep 23 17:00
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schestowitz"Content"... you sound like a mystic shark. :)Sep 23 17:00
_DougMS has divered a lot recently, a lot of non IT busineses, media and so on ..Sep 23 17:01
schestowitzdivered?Sep 23 17:01
_Dougdiversified ?Sep 23 17:02
schestowitzSo what? It doesn't make the world more dependent.Sep 23 17:02
schestowitzDrug dealers diversity too, now *that's* dependence.Sep 23 17:02
_DougIf MS dissapeared, then the vacuum would be replaced by third party embedded devices.Sep 23 17:02
_DougFor the MS stock-holders it wouldn't be such a good thing ..Sep 23 17:03
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schestowitzNa.. don't give me that.Sep 23 17:05
schestowitzMicrosoft investors are not ones to be sympathised with... they are not out in the streets. They already invest in an anti-social entity and they can afford it.Sep 23 17:06
_DougYou're a bit too emotive, like the scorpion and the tortoise, it's only following its true nature ..Sep 23 17:07
schestowitzWhat do you want me to say?Sep 23 17:08
schestowitzThis isn't the beauty and the Beast where you can tame and educate the beast.Sep 23 17:09
_DougThink of MS as short-hand for a particular way of doing business .. :)Sep 23 17:09
schestowitzUniversally speaking, it's detrimental. Ask people who can't afford it.Sep 23 17:09
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_DougRead up on the railroads in an earlier century ..Sep 23 17:11
_Doughttp://it.toolbox.com/blogs/database-soup/of-rai...Sep 23 17:12
_DougSame reason there are four StarBuks in every street ..Sep 23 17:12
schestowitzFrom 2007Sep 23 17:12
_DougDrive the competition out and then jack up the price ..Sep 23 17:13
_DougIt's market capitolism at its best :)Sep 23 17:13
schestowitzLet me read. And Starbucks (WA, USA)is killing local stores. That's /no/ good.Sep 23 17:13
schestowitzThey pay minimum wage and the money is streamed to some millionaires across the Atlantic in the 99th floor of some space needle.Sep 23 17:13
_Doug"Crippleware is not open source"Sep 23 17:14
_DougThink of much you have to spend once you get your brand new computer home from the shop.Sep 23 17:14
_DougServices and upgrades, to get it to do something, or timed out software ...Sep 23 17:14
_DougYou have amoral duty to go into hock to buy the latest gizmo, it is your duty as a consumeer .. :)Sep 23 17:17
_Doug"a moral"Sep 23 17:17
_Doug:)Sep 23 17:17
schestowitzSearching for "partiotic dury varghese buy microsoft"Sep 23 17:18
schestowitzhttp://www.it-director.com/enterprise/other/...Sep 23 17:19
schestowitz"That seemed to be the message at the London launch of Microsoft Vista, Office 2007 and Exchange 2007 on 30 November 2006. Gordon Frazer, Microsoft’s UK managing director, devoted most his opening speech to a gallimaufry of statistics and quotations intended to show that buying these new offerings would somehow make Britain more competitive."Sep 23 17:19
schestowitzHeadline: Sep 23 17:20
schestowitzBuy Microsoft, it's your patriotic dutySep 23 17:20
_DougNever ming MS, lets call it the Nike economy. A western company with at most 500 employees manufactures footware in the third-world for 50c a hour and sell it in the west for €£70 a time. The stock holders of which do very well.Sep 23 17:21
schestowitzthat's modern-age slavery.Sep 23 17:22
schestowitzJust because you say (to justify/remove/waive guilt) that you do them a favour to give them a job doesn't make it any better.Sep 23 17:23
_Doughey what are you - a commie :)Sep 23 17:23
schestowitz*by givingSep 23 17:23
schestowitzNo, it's exploitation, slavery.Sep 23 17:24
schestowitzDifferent words meaning pretty much the same thing (one is good for embellishment)Sep 23 17:24
_Dougback later ... comrade !Sep 23 17:27
schestowitzLet me get my olive-coloured t-shirt...Sep 23 17:28
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schestowitzGood talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSoSep 23 18:45
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schestowitzzoobab: I'll produce an ogg of that EPO protest vid, so in case you're interested...Sep 23 20:15
schestowitzWatch this one: Writing Qt and KDE apps in Mono Visual Basic < http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3696 >Sep 23 20:15
schestowitzRichard Dale is behind it, which is not so surprising. That's the guy who has been adding Mono/C# patches to KDE some weeks in August. The comment says: "Kind of the obvious question, does VB have any merit? Like are there actually developers who like VB but are scared by C#?"Sep 23 20:17
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zoobabokSep 23 20:19
trmanco"A computer is like air conditioning, it becomes useless when you open windows."Sep 23 20:29
schestowitzLinusSep 23 20:29
trmancoit's from Linus?Sep 23 20:30
trmancoI don't really know, I copied it from an email sigSep 23 20:30
schestowitzYes.Sep 23 20:30
schestowitz"Talk is cheap. Show me the code."Sep 23 20:30
schestowitz"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones."Sep 23 20:30
trmancoyes that one I knowSep 23 20:30
schestowitz“Software is like sex: it's better when it's free.”Sep 23 20:30
schestowitz“Software patents are a huge potential threat to the ability of people to work together on open source. Making it easier for companies and communities that have patents to make those patents available in a common pool for people to use is one way to try to help developers deal with the threat.”Sep 23 20:30
trmancowon't be big :P...Sep 23 20:30
trmancothe software sex one is my favoriteSep 23 20:31
schestowitz“One of the questions I've always hated answering is how do people make money in open source. And I think that Caldera and Red Hat -- and there are a number of other Linux companies going public -- basically show that yes, you can actually make money in the open-source area.”Sep 23 20:31
schestowitzI'll get to that too.Sep 23 20:31
schestowitz“It just makes it even harder for people to even approach the (open source) side, when they then end up having to worry about ... public humiliation.”Sep 23 20:31
schestowitz"When it comes to software, I much prefer free software, because I have very seldom seen a program that has worked well enough for my needs, and having sources available can be a life-saver."Sep 23 20:31
schestowitzHe doesnt' say "open source"Sep 23 20:31
schestowitzAlan Cox to Eric Raymond: "That would be because we believe in Free Software and doing the right thing (a practice you appear to have given up on). Maybe it is time the term 'open source' also did the decent thing and died out with you."Sep 23 20:31
schestowitzSometimes he says open source.Sep 23 20:32
schestowitz"Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested. 99% of that I run tends to be open source, but that's _my_ choice, dammit."Sep 23 20:32
trmancololSep 23 20:32
trmancorms?Sep 23 20:32
schestowitzRichard Stallman.Sep 23 20:33
trmanco:|Sep 23 20:33
schestowitzRichard Stallman: "Giving the Linus Torvalds Award to the Free Software Foundation is a bit like giving the Han Solo Award to the Rebel Alliance."Sep 23 20:33
trmancololSep 23 20:33
schestowitzMaybe I should do some posts now. :-)Sep 23 20:34
trmancookSep 23 20:35
schestowitzCan't let the trolls have a break.Sep 23 20:35
trmancothey will never stopSep 23 20:38
trmancothey aren't even harassing me *yet*, but by just reading what they right pisses me offSep 23 20:39
trmancowrite*Sep 23 20:39
schestowitzI know, but if they get a break, they'll have room for libel and declare 'victory'. Now is the time of change (we're past the tipping point). Microsoft and debt....Sep 23 20:39
AlbertoP<schestowitz> Can't let the trolls have a break.   <--- cough...I need something for my cough!Sep 23 20:40
*benJIman hands AlbertoP a strepsil.Sep 23 20:40
schestowitz:-) AlbertoP, you're biased.Sep 23 20:40
schestowitzI'm talking about Microsoft's 'dudes'Sep 23 20:40
schestowitz...Who, I might add, are getting harder to tell apart from Novell people (I'm not talking about OpenSUSE)Sep 23 20:41
schestowitz(just to clarify, I was talking about USENET posts)Sep 23 20:41
AlbertoPhehe well, Novell, opensuse...you're speaking of exactly the same people ^^Sep 23 20:41
schestowitzThere's some overlap.Sep 23 20:41
AlbertoPsome?Sep 23 20:41
schestowitzBut... SUSE is mainly engineers,  not manager.Sep 23 20:42
schestowitz*managersSep 23 20:42
AlbertoPwell, suse is novell now ^^Sep 23 20:42
schestowitzYes, some. Not all are paid by Novell.Sep 23 20:42
schestowitzOpenSUSE can Sep 23 20:42
AlbertoPOoSep 23 20:42
schestowitzstill walk away with the code.Sep 23 20:42
AlbertoP99% are paid by Novell €¬€¬Sep 23 20:42
schestowitzThough the trademark is Novell'sSep 23 20:42
schestowitzDo you or Ben know if Novell holds a trademark on OpenSUSE(TM)Sep 23 20:42
schestowitzAlbertoP: you too?? :-oSep 23 20:43
schestowitzI'm talking about volunteers too.Sep 23 20:43
AlbertoPhow many volunteers do you think contribute code to openSUSE?Sep 23 20:43
schestowitzAbout 70% of the patches in KDE are from unaffiliated folks the last time I  checked (2 weeks ago)Sep 23 20:43
AlbertoPwhat kde has to do with opensuse?Sep 23 20:44
AlbertoPkde is upstreamSep 23 20:44
schestowitzAlbertoP: interesting. Well, OpenSUSE being /what/? YaST?Sep 23 20:44
AlbertoPheheSep 23 20:44
schestowitzIt's a legitimate question.Sep 23 20:44
schestowitzThe skeleton of a ditro often makes up the core of it.Sep 23 20:44
AlbertoPyast? a smoothly integrated kde and gnome? buildservice?Sep 23 20:44
schestowitzUbuntu = Synaptic+BulletProofX+repos+integration...Sep 23 20:45
AlbertoPwell, ubuntu = steal and put some duct here and there €¬€¬Sep 23 20:45
schestowitzYou'r stepping on benJIman's toes by suggesting OpenSUSE *is* NovellSep 23 20:46
AlbertoPand I said this long time before greg!Sep 23 20:46
schestowitzAlbertoP: and marketing. But that counts too.Sep 23 20:46
AlbertoPno, openSUSE IS novellSep 23 20:46
trmancohttp://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3696Sep 23 20:46
schestowitzAlbertoP: many others said so before Greg.Sep 23 20:46
schestowitzre: kernel (not GNU/Linux)Sep 23 20:46
AlbertoPI contributed for quite a bit of time to openSUSE, and still, I think openSUSE is novell...and I have no real problem with thatSep 23 20:46
schestowitzDo tou know Dale?Sep 23 20:47
AlbertoPNovell proved long ago not to be as evil as someone think...we see that every daySep 23 20:47
AlbertoPnoSep 23 20:47
schestowitzIs he affiliated with a company?Sep 23 20:47
AlbertoPdon't know himSep 23 20:47
schestowitzbenJIman: hear hear.Sep 23 20:47
benJImanschestowitz: BulletProofX is an upstream feature, ubuntu just gave it a name.Sep 23 20:47
_DougDiscover a more intelligent approach in the Data CenterSep 23 20:47
_Doughttp://www.novell.com/global/datacente...Sep 23 20:47
schestowitzOpenSUSE=Novell.Sep 23 20:48
MinceRnovell is not as evil as someone thinks -- it's _more_ evil.Sep 23 20:48
AlbertoPschestowitz, btw, from the bottom of opensuse wikiSep 23 20:48
_DougAnd the rollovers don't work in FF :(Sep 23 20:48
AlbertoPCopyright ۩ 2008 Novell, Inc. All rights reserved. Novell is a registered trademark andSep 23 20:48
AlbertoPopenSUSE and SUSE are trademarks of Novell, Inc. in the United States and other countries.Sep 23 20:48
AlbertoPThis site uses the YAML CSS framework.Sep 23 20:48
schestowitz:-)Sep 23 20:48
schestowitz:-DSep 23 20:48
schestowitzbenJIman: comment?Sep 23 20:48
_Doughey Roy: lurkers should be kicked .. yea ?Sep 23 20:48
AlbertoPschestowitz, comment on what?Sep 23 20:48
schestowitzbenJIman insisted OpenSUSE had nothing to do with Novell.Sep 23 20:49
schestowitzHe tried hard to explain this.Sep 23 20:49
benJImanschestowitz: Content written by Novell is copyrighted by Novell, it's the same with their Free software...Sep 23 20:49
schestowitz*LOL*Sep 23 20:49
schestowitzMoving goalposts.Sep 23 20:49
AlbertoPschestowitz, no the problem is that you can't readSep 23 20:49
schestowitzWhere can I get my OpenSUSE content ISO?Sep 23 20:49
benJImanschestowitz: If you navigate to a page that's written by a Non-Novell employee it does not say copyright Novell.Sep 23 20:49
benJImanOnly on the pages written by Novell.Sep 23 20:49
AlbertoPthat sentence clearly says two thingsSep 23 20:49
schestowitzBut it wasn't about those footers.Sep 23 20:50
schestowitzIt's about the experience shared by a former large contributor.Sep 23 20:50
AlbertoPhehe that's the point, you never state what you're talking about EXACTLYSep 23 20:50
benJImanI did not say that openSUSE had nothing to do with Novell, but it is distinct.Sep 23 20:50
schestowitzHe asserts that Novell conrros OSUSE.Sep 23 20:50
schestowitz*controlsSep 23 20:50
schestowitzFine, benJIman, fine..Sep 23 20:50
benJImanNot really true any more.Sep 23 20:50
_DougbenJIman: you are barred !Sep 23 20:51
benJIman_Doug: ?Sep 23 20:51
AlbertoPactually Novell clearly wants openSUSE to be more independentSep 23 20:51
schestowitz_Doug: let it be.Sep 23 20:51
AlbertoPand this was said by the same management you consider so evil ^^Sep 23 20:51
schestowitzI don't gag comments or people... Sep 23 20:51
schestowitz[H]omer gets pissed off thought and uses his opSep 23 20:51
_Doug"We estimate that the cost of using Xen and SUSE Linux Enterprise for virtualizing Windows systems is just 10 percent of the leading equivalent solution."Sep 23 20:51
schestowitz:-)Sep 23 20:52
schestowitzYes, justify prostitution.Sep 23 20:52
AlbertoPI have problems to see what's wrong thereSep 23 20:52
schestowitz"WIndows is so much better as a host" -- NovellSep 23 20:52
schestowitzTake the leap to Vista.Sep 23 20:53
_Doug"Norihito Kuniyoshi, Casio"Sep 23 20:53
schestowitzI should find that interview with Ron where he talks about it.Sep 23 20:53
_DougbenJIman: why don't you use Linux at work ?Sep 23 20:53
schestowitzSomething along the lines of "part of our agreement was that Windows would be host (master")Sep 23 20:53
benJIman_Doug: You asked me that yesterday, and I replied.Sep 23 20:53
_DougWhat ? remind me ?Sep 23 20:54
AlbertoPwhy do you criticize a successful linux implementation that underlined the importance of linux for the _real_world_ instead of being happy of that?Sep 23 20:54
schestowitzRemind me too.Sep 23 20:54
trmancohttp://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-91368/microsoft-r...Sep 23 20:54
schestowitzI recall nothing.Sep 23 20:54
schestowitztrmanco: I'll blog it later.Sep 23 20:54
_DougI do recall you suddenly dropping off .. :)Sep 23 20:54
benJIman_Doug: I do .net development. Mono is missing quite a few things to be a solution at the moment.Sep 23 20:54
schestowitzzoobab found lots of goodies today.Sep 23 20:54
benJIman_Doug: Such as a reliable application serverSep 23 20:55
trmancookSep 23 20:55
schestowitzbenJIman: I thought you advocatd Java.Sep 23 20:55
schestowitzJust coverup?Sep 23 20:55
schestowitzbenJIman: OpenSUSE, loves Vista, loves .NET.Sep 23 20:55
benJIman18:27 < _Doug> benJIman: why won't they let you use Linux at work ?Sep 23 20:55
benJIman18:28 < benJIman> If there were a good .net application server for linux then maybe I could.Sep 23 20:55
schestowitzI can see thatl...Sep 23 20:55
benJIman18:28 < benJIman> Mono is getting quite complete now, but still missing an appserver.Sep 23 20:55
benJIman^ see I did yesterday.Sep 23 20:56
benJImanschestowitz: Actually I prefer java, but .net is quite nice too.Sep 23 20:56
schestowitzSo Free software is just a nice-to-have?Sep 23 20:56
AlbertoPbenJIman, you're biased! Don't you see????Sep 23 20:56
AlbertoP:PSep 23 20:56
schestowitzOpenSUSE should be PragrmatUSE.Sep 23 20:56
AlbertoPschestowitz, for your information, mono is free softwareSep 23 20:56
_DougbenJIman: I meant generally not just for dotNET development,Sep 23 20:56
*benJIman wonders if schestowitz just gave a complement.Sep 23 20:57
AlbertoPand yes, software is an instrument, not a philosophySep 23 20:57
AlbertoPso if something does the job better, even if not free, it should be usedSep 23 20:57
schestowitzI'm glad we got that on the record.Sep 23 20:57
benJImanschestowitz: Free software is not just a nice to have for me. At home I use mostly free software with a few exceptions. I do have flash player and nvidia driver installed at the moment I confess.Sep 23 20:57
schestowitzNovell seems to think so too.Sep 23 20:57
schestowitz"Mixed source" or hybriding it calls it..Sep 23 20:58
schestowitzSo does Microsoft...Sep 23 20:58
benJIman_Doug: What do you mean by generally? That is my job.Sep 23 20:58
AlbertoPschestowitz, so what?Sep 23 20:58
schestowitzSought a job at Port 25 yet? :-)Sep 23 20:58
AlbertoPis it wrong to use the right tool to do a job?Sep 23 20:58
twitterIck, there's been a troll storm in here...Sep 23 20:58


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