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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 13th, 2008- Part 1


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twitterUt oh, UK patents slipped through the backdoor, 13 00:51
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anti_MS_h4x0r_4_what's up guys!Oct 13 01:00
anti_MS_h4x0r_4_DOWN WITH M$ AND NOVELL FREEDOM!!111111111ONEOct 13 01:01
anti_MS_h4x0r_4_GNU/LINUX + SLACKWARE 4 LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Oct 13 01:02
anti_MS_h4x0r_4_FREE SOFTWARE MAKES MY DICK HARD!!!Oct 13 01:02
anti_MS_h4x0r_4_Oh god I'm rubbing off to emacs!Oct 13 01:02
twitterBenjie, what's alleged is that is going to introduce a M$ version of OOXML support that only Novell can use.  I may have misread that but it would be a good thing to see a link or email about.Oct 13 01:08
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anti_MS_h4x0r_4_Oh god now I'm rubbing off to kernel.h!!!Oct 13 01:15
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schestowitzI had to close comments on this one and move it to CORAL in case it makes the FP: 13 06:30
schestowitzThis article is very amusing. "McAfee sees rise in stock scams, social engineering attacks" Coming from a company that engages in fraud.Oct 13 06:53
schestowitz : Why Are the Feds Still Gunning for McAfee's Former GC?Oct 13 06:54
schestowitz : We’re not thieves. We just can’t read contracts (McAfee and Open Source)Oct 13 06:54
schestowitz : McAfee to Pay $13.8 Million to Settle Backdating LawsuitsOct 13 06:55
schestowitzMcAfee's libel against open source : .......... and so on..Oct 13 06:56
schestowitzZDNet is boosting Microsoft again: 13 07:29
schestowitzThe other article in ZDNet (among just 2) is Linux bashing.Oct 13 07:30
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schestowitzJust spotted a lot of pretty good comments here: Oct 13 07:43
schestowitzMarkets are recovering this morning: 13 07:52
schestowitzOnly the FTSE is down, and very sharply, unlike all the rest.Oct 13 07:53
schestowitz 13 07:56
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schestowitz 13 08:07
schestowitz"Nothing new...same old saga of Novell sponsored by Microsoft attacking Sun and Free software just before the release of Open Office 3"Oct 13 08:07
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schestowitzPropaganda terms like "pirates" in the MSBBC: 13 08:41
schestowitz"Music pirates... music pirates... persistent pirates.. most persistent pirates..." No wonder people who get exposed to these Hollywood terms just simply repeat them. The BBC should know better than this that "piracy" means something else.Oct 13 08:44
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schestowitzCloud hype goes kaput: (Cloud Computing One-Day Event in Toronto Cancelled)Oct 13 09:09
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duncanmvschestowitz: are you nuts?Oct 13 10:51
schestowitzNo, I am not.Oct 13 10:51
duncanmv"a fork of into which they are pushing Microsoft’s OOXML support " -> upstream 3.0 has itOct 13 10:51
duncanmv"improvements to OO.o which aren’t often upstreamed to the main projec" -> when was it the last time you sent a patch to 13 10:52
duncanmvwhy are you posting lies? is the goal worth the means?Oct 13 10:52
schestowitzThese are not lies.Oct 13 10:52
duncanmvhow the fork is mean to introduce ooxml support then, if the upstream version has it?Oct 13 10:53
duncanmvI think boycottnovell is a great site to show another opinion on the Novell side, but please keep your posts serious and take your pills before writing. Otherwise you will ruin something that...ok, never had anything valuable but at least was good for having more plural media.Oct 13 10:57
schestowitzI am confident of what I wrote and I am willing to explain.Oct 13 10:58
schestowitzThat " take your pills" remark waves a red flag.Oct 13 10:59
schestowitzI consider this to be a risidual of incomplete explanation that links rather than support 'in line', as elucidated -- at least in part -- in the accompanying comments. A 'history lesson' helps here, i.e. going back to our coverage in 2006.Oct 13 11:00
duncanmvyou crossed a very bad line, from writing uninformed bs to just liying about peopleOct 13 11:12
duncanmvsad that usually troll sites can't break their own rule, never say you were wrong about something and try to undone the damage. One can always cover a mistake with a new lie.Oct 13 11:15
schestowitzAu contraire; I see a lot of disinformation spread by people in the comment.Oct 13 11:15
schestowitzJust a minute ago I replied to incorrect information from Alex: 13 11:16
schestowitzIt need to be added that you, duncanmv, are a Novell employee.Oct 13 11:16
schestowitzIn other words, here I am arguing with someone who is paid by Novell (Novell is paid by Microsoft too) over the accuracy of information in a site that Shane called "boycott Novell"Oct 13 11:17
duncanmvI know I am a Novell employee, and I actually enjoyed seeing your uninformed stuff from time to time, it helps knowing how some people can perceive the way companies move. But as I said, there is a big space between being a uninformed troll to start just lying and making damage.Oct 13 11:17
schestowitzduncanmv: why did you not disclose this when you came in?Oct 13 11:18
duncanmvbecause you know it, you use your boring sundays to link to my blog when you are looking for material for your site do you?Oct 13 11:18
schestowitzWe have a lot of OpenSUSE people in this channel (even Microsoft people) and it's mildly amusing that even Novell people find the need to come here and argue.Oct 13 11:18
schestowitzduncanmv: I keep track of Novell stuff because I need to understand what I write about..Oct 13 11:19
schestowitzHad I been more shallow, my analysis would be worth a lot less.Oct 13 11:19
duncanmvit seems it is not working... to much copy paste may be and you need to make some sense of itOct 13 11:19
schestowitzI still hope to see SUSE escaping the hands of Novell.Oct 13 11:19
schestowitzNovell is still 90% a proprietary software company. The 'open' component makes good PR for Novell, so it emphasises that more in public.Oct 13 11:20
duncanmvwho cares if it is a proprietary company? is it ilegal to have proprietary products?Oct 13 11:20
schestowitzTuxMachines links to your site a lot and I rely on Susan when it comes to OpenSUSE blogs.Oct 13 11:21
schestowitzBut you don't complain about her...Oct 13 11:21
duncanmvNovell still contributes more to the community than what you will do in 10 loops of reincarnationOct 13 11:21
duncanmvI dont care if someone links to my siteOct 13 11:21
schestowitzduncanmv: no, it's not illegal, but a company with such a mindset should not be expected to treat FOSS in a way that's honourable.Oct 13 11:22
duncanmvI don't care about what you wrote (usually), but your last post says 3 lies in a row and insults a developersOct 13 11:22
schestowitzWhere does it insult a person?Oct 13 11:22
schestowitzAlso make a distinction between personal and professional things.Oct 13 11:23
duncanmvhijaacker?Oct 13 11:23
schestowitzI don't bother with personal lives, but when someone's work -- maybe at the behest of a boss -- jeopardises a project, one must react.Oct 13 11:23
EruaranNovells 'contributions' are patent encumbered poison pills laced with SteveB's sweaty bits.Oct 13 11:24
schestowitzMeeks represents a group that wants to control a fork of OOoOct 13 11:24
duncanmvI think you just don't get the whole free software stuff. Otherwise you would not be complaining about forks, political pressure to create decent governance models and adding support for file format importers.Oct 13 11:24
duncanmvwhat is wrong with forks?Oct 13 11:24
schestowitzThe rationale, the motive in this particular case.Oct 13 11:24
duncanmvthe fact that you dont understand them dont make them badOct 13 11:25
schestowitzI've known and been involved in benign forks that were successor or abandoned projects.Oct 13 11:25
duncanmvthe motive? you know the motive? or you _think_ you know the motive?Oct 13 11:25
schestowitzBut this case is a duplication of effort done by the partner of an enemy of OOoOct 13 11:25
duncanmvand your confusion between what you think and what it is what makes you post nonsense?Oct 13 11:25
schestowitzHeard of the IronRuby story?Oct 13 11:25
schestowitzHow Microsoft 'hijacked' people from the Ruby project so that it controls the licences, the people, the direction?Oct 13 11:26
schestowitzI will happily give you links.Oct 13 11:26
duncanmvsame thing Sun does with OOOct 13 11:26
duncanmvit controls the copyrightsOct 13 11:27
schestowitzBefore you know it, in due time, OOo can be relicensed or offered in a 'premium' form where Microsoft is paid.Oct 13 11:27
schestowitzNot StarOffice.Oct 13 11:27
duncanmvthing that Novell is againstOct 13 11:27
schestowitzSomething that empowers Microsoft/Novell, not SunOct 13 11:27
EruaranI think someone who wants the level of compatability with Mircosoft Office that the go-oo site boasts of, doesn't really want a compatible suite, they want Microsoft Office.Oct 13 11:27
schestowitzduncanmv: Novell also controls Mono copyrights.Oct 13 11:27
duncanmvEruaran: people use MS Office because people send them .doc and .xls files, it is a social effect.Oct 13 11:27
schestowitzAs well as many 'descendant' projects. Do you think that's good?Oct 13 11:27
duncanmvTrolltech also controls Qt's copyrightOct 13 11:28
EruaranI'm talking about a particular market segment you are obviously unfamiliar with duncanmvOct 13 11:28
duncanmvFree software foundation controls copyrights!!!!Oct 13 11:28
schestowitzNovell also prioritises Windows in the sense that it has a deal with Microsoft to give it more features.Oct 13 11:28
duncanmvit has a reason. do you get it?Oct 13 11:28
duncanmvschestowitz: that is bullshitOct 13 11:28
duncanmvFree software foundation controls copyrights!!!! are you going to blog about it?Oct 13 11:29
schestowitzduncanmv: there's no TrolltechOct 13 11:29
schestowitzThat is actually a good case of point. See how Nokia grabbed QtOct 13 11:29
schestowitzWhich is not necessarily a good thing as I wrote before.Oct 13 11:29
duncanmvyou can't upstream a patch without giving the copyright to Nokia/TTOct 13 11:29
schestowitzNokia is a sofwtare patent lobbyist... and DRM... one of the worst in fact.Oct 13 11:29
schestowitzduncanmv: FSF is trusted.Oct 13 11:30
duncanmvis is of course a good thing, otherwise they could not release it under a dual GPL/Propietary license without getting permissions once and again.Oct 13 11:30
EruaranQt went GPLv3 before Nokia bought Trolltech.Oct 13 11:30
schestowitzNovell is not.Oct 13 11:30
duncanmvschestowitz: you may trust it, I dont trust them.Oct 13 11:30
schestowitzNovell spreads anti-FOSS FUD with Microsoft to increase sales of 'protected' SUSEOct 13 11:30
schestowitzDeeds speak louder than press releases.Oct 13 11:30
duncanmvfor me there is no difference in giving the copyrights to a political organization than to a company, I only care about the license of the code published.Oct 13 11:30
EruaranThats interesting.Oct 13 11:30
schestowitzduncanmv: what is the goal of the FSF?Oct 13 11:31
schestowitzYou seem to misunderstand how trust is earned and why/Oct 13 11:31
duncanmvNovell spreads anti-FOSS FUD with Microsoft to increase sales of 'protected' SUSE -> you are getting offtopic, we were talking about your OO lies, with the patents I agree Novell did not do it right in some aspects, and most people agree.Oct 13 11:31
schestowitzI personally don't trust many Linux vendors, but Novell is a convicted one, not a suspect.Oct 13 11:31
schestowitzIt's not off topic, duncanmv Oct 13 11:32
schestowitzThe point I was making is that Novell could do varous things.Oct 13 11:32
duncanmvschestowitz: I am not saying I dont trust the fsf, I can, I can't , it does not matter, it is an organization, it can become evil too. Stallman is nuts, so the probability is high anyway. FSF is just another actor in the community. And I understand they grab copyrights, it is a practical issue.Oct 13 11:32
duncanmvjust try to relicense code without that. It happened to them (GPLv2 to GPLv3)Oct 13 11:33
schestowitzOne thing it could do is contaminate it's 'better' OO with Microsoft IP and then offer it 'safely' and 'for free' only with SUSE.Oct 13 11:33
schestowitzAnother thing it could do is make it work better -- technically-speaking -- with SUSE, which is Microsoft-taxed.Oct 13 11:33
EruaranGPLv3 is a good licence.Oct 13 11:33
schestowitzAnother thing that can happen is a takeover by Microsoft.Oct 13 11:33
duncanmvthat is not Novell goal, you can judge stupid moves or mistakes, but dont invent stupid false conspiracy theories.Oct 13 11:33
schestowitzStallman is "nuts"?Oct 13 11:34
schestowitzPlease elaborate.Oct 13 11:34
duncanmvEruaran: for you, it may not be for some people. SOme people prefer GPLv2, some people prefer others.Oct 13 11:34
schestowitzNovell goal = shareholders' goalOct 13 11:34
duncanmvschestowitz: he is an extremist. Not all people participating in FOSS think Stallman is right in everything.Oct 13 11:34
schestowitzNovell shareholder = people who invest in a largely proprietary Microsoft partner.Oct 13 11:35
duncanmvschestowitz: IBM, evil or trusted?Oct 13 11:35
EruaranGPLv3 is the ideal licence if you don't want corporates like Novell or Microsoft trying to subvert your code.Oct 13 11:35
schestowitzduncanmv: what does extremist mean?Oct 13 11:35
schestowitzHis portrayal in the media does not help, but please explain.Oct 13 11:36
schestowitzIs it wrong to accuse corrupt people of... well, being corrupt?Oct 13 11:36
duncanmvI just think you are to newbie to this world to try to classify everyone as a permanent trusted/untrusted label. It depends a lot on timing, context and point of view. For example, you are highly untrusted for lot of people, as you write lot of lies and bullshit and hurt log of projects and people with misinformation.Oct 13 11:36
EruaranI'll take a Novell employee calling RMS an 'extremist' with the grain of salt it deserves.Oct 13 11:36
schestowitzOr wrong to defend people's privacy?Oct 13 11:36
schestowitzI see a lot of lies about Stallman.Oct 13 11:36
duncanmvI don't care, he is a politician, and he has ideas not all people share, even if some of his core beliefs are shared.Oct 13 11:37
schestowitzThat sure I see a lot of -- the daemonisation. Such as the claims by Dan Lyons that he said he would "make love with a flower" or something (Lyons took a joke and make it seem like it was meant for real)Oct 13 11:37
EruaranHe's not a politician.Oct 13 11:37
schestowitzIBM = suspect, for now.Oct 13 11:37
schestowitzNovell has many reasons to distrust RMSOct 13 11:38
duncanmvEruaran: call him activist if you want.Oct 13 11:38
duncanmvhow do you know Novell distrust RMS?Oct 13 11:38
schestowitzI have heard from friends that they got kicked from SUSEForums for bringing up questions about GPL.Oct 13 11:38
duncanmvanother "invention" from your troll generation engine?Oct 13 11:38
schestowitzMaybe it's population specific, but there's disdain for the FSF among Novellers and it's no surprise.Oct 13 11:39
duncanmv"I have heard..." troll's favorite sentencesOct 13 11:39
EruaranAnd we wont mention the imaginary friends of Novell employees that show up on Free Software Daily...Oct 13 11:39
schestowitzEruaran is correct. RMS is actually against many politicians. Politicians are largely corrupt, for a simple provable fact,.Oct 13 11:39
schestowitzduncanmv: it shows that Novell employees (some of them) distance themselves from those values that their employers betrays in Nov 2006.Oct 13 11:40
schestowitz*betrayedOct 13 11:40
schestowitzduncanmv: re "I have heard", I can link you to actual posts.Oct 13 11:41
schestowitzI saw it and blogged about it. I could find it given some time.Oct 13 11:41
duncanmvok, and if it happened? what if it was some stupid mistake from some clueless employee?Oct 13 11:42
duncanmvthen you are entitled to start spreading bullshit and conspiracy theoriesOct 13 11:43
duncanmvyou know, I am angry not because you write against novell, I love that actuallyOct 13 11:43
EruaranConspiracy theories about Microsoft and Novell have a habit of turning out to be true.Oct 13 11:43
duncanmvthe sad part is that you are clueless and always hurt projects and intentions with lies and missinformationOct 13 11:43
duncanmvso if the patents story does not provide more material for your blog, dont get force to write crap just because you need materialOct 13 11:44
duncanmvwait till there is something valuable to write. The patents agreement was something good to cover for exampleOct 13 11:44
duncanmvbut all your OOXML and theories are just childish nonsense crap. really.Oct 13 11:45
schestowitzduncanmv: The SUSE/Novell community is broader than just the management.Oct 13 11:45
schestowitzI am convinced that Novell's core tries to maintain a healthy relationship with the FSF.Oct 13 11:45
schestowitzIt actually made a mistake once by publicly  stating that it supported the FSF financially; this was not true.Oct 13 11:46
schestowitzEruaran: it's different.Oct 13 11:46
schestowitzEruaran: It's just that unflattering things about Novell and Microsoft are being /LABELED/ conspiracy theory so that viewers don't take them seriously.Oct 13 11:47
duncanmvAre you going to blog about the evil FSF grabbing copyrights from contributors? if you don't do that one needs to forkOct 13 11:48
schestowitzMicrosoft bribes for OOXML? No!! CONPIRACY THEORY!!11 Some months later Groklaw nets a smoking gun about Microsoft offering 'incentives' to people in Sweden and the vote is rubbished as a result.Oct 13 11:48
EruaranIts like trying to argue that Microsoft is not trying to hijack ODF with the ISO committee it controls by saying that were all mad comspiracy theorists and nutbags... Its no conspiracy, the information is already out there... Go talk to some folks from Brazil.Oct 13 11:48
schestowitzSomeone says Microsoft is evil? No!! No way! That person is a Microsoft(R) Hater(R).Oct 13 11:48
schestowitzYou can never listen to a Microsoft(R) Hater(R).Oct 13 11:48
schestowitzAndy Updegrove too  was labeled like this. I guess he said too much truth.Oct 13 11:49
duncanmvMicrosoft did hijaack ODFOct 13 11:49
schestowitzWho foresaw this?Oct 13 11:50
schestowitzAnd what was the reaction?Oct 13 11:50
schestowitzI am amused to remember how I wrote about Microsoft hijacking ODF like 3 months ago.Oct 13 11:50
schestowitzSome Microsoft employees liked to Boycott Novell calling it names.Oct 13 11:50
schestowitzWell, welll..Oct 13 11:50
EruaranIf you think there is any level M$ will not stoop to, including making Novell its own little sock puppet, you're in for a surprise.Oct 13 11:50
schestowitz*linkedOct 13 11:50
schestowitzWell, that's his paymaster.Oct 13 11:51
schestowitzGot to keep believing.Oct 13 11:51
schestowitzEveryone tried to perfume it for him/herself that $Employer is nice and charitable.Oct 13 11:51
schestowitzIt makes working a lot easier.Oct 13 11:51
duncanmveverybody foresaw it, it was on every blog, I even got news from my university where also they voted neutral because they had agreements with MSOct 13 11:52
duncanmvdo you think you were the primary news source? hehOct 13 11:52
EruaranI've seen enough market distorting corruption from Microsoft here in the relatively small Australian market to make me sick... they will buy politicians in Tasmania if they think they have to.Oct 13 11:53
duncanmvreally, I am sure Novell does not make every move perfect and makes lot of mistakes, like any fat company getting into the FOSS area and trying to change its culture (in this case mostly driven by SUSE/Ximian people), IBM was much smoother I think. But stop that arrogancy of trust. You are as untrustful as any company. The only difference is, companies make mistakes, you lie knowing it, to create noise.Oct 13 11:54
EruaranIf this is how Microsoft behaves here, then how do you think it behaves elsewhere where the stakes are much higher ?Oct 13 11:55
schestowitzduncanmv: no, I was not.Oct 13 11:55
schestowitzI talk about something totally different here though.Oct 13 11:55
schestowitzEruaran: speaking of Microsoft 'irregularities' in Australia, I have a new one for you:Oct 13 11:56
EruaranXimian people, ie. Miguel's buddies, are in love with all things Microsoft.Oct 13 11:56
schestowitzMinistry says no as school opts for free software : 13 11:56
duncanmvEruaran: the fact that I share _some_ of schestowitz concerns on patents, companies, etc, does not mean I think this guy has the right to troll with lies just as evil companies do.Oct 13 11:57
schestowitzPublished today. Long story short: if a school doesn't buy Microsoft, it ceases to receive monetary support to actually support Free software (where support *is* the main cost).Oct 13 11:57
schestowitzIOW, they choke FOSS, some would say due to stupidity (like BECTA) and some would say on Microsoft's behalf (rubbing a partner's back). Oct 13 11:58
EruaranThats in New Zealand, but the situation in Australia is similar.Oct 13 11:58
EruaranIts not stupidity, its becuase money talks.Oct 13 11:58
schestowitzNovell called Ximian a "Red carpet"Oct 13 11:58
duncanmvyes, Miguel loves Microsoft stuff. Who cares? he liked a platform and reimplemented it in a few years. Now there is something extra available for the community, with a choice, if you think it is not good to use it, dont use it, if you do, use it. He created a choice. Same choice of having a OOXML filter. You want to promote FOSS by restringing availability of stuff, may be because you have problems with freedom and democracy?Oct 13 11:59
schestowitzThis was the basis for Novell's basis, prior to a SuSE takeover.Oct 13 11:59
schestowitz(assisted by IBM BTW)Oct 13 11:59
schestowitzEruaran: I meant the continent.Oct 13 11:59
Eruaranschestowitz: different continent ;)Oct 13 12:00
duncanmvschestowitz: 13 12:00
schestowitz:-o different continent?Oct 13 12:00
Eruaranyes :DOct 13 12:01
schestowitzWhich one?Oct 13 12:01
EruaranNew Zealand is two islands...Oct 13 12:01
EruaranIf you find New Zealand on a globe... Australia is the big continent to your left ;)Oct 13 12:02
schestowitzBut they don't fall under the same territorial umbrella? I was misled. I guess it's the same with Tasmania then.Oct 13 12:02
EruaranTasmania is part of Australia.Oct 13 12:02
EruaranNew Zealand and Australia are separate countries.Oct 13 12:02
schestowitzYes, I know.Oct 13 12:03
Eruaran:POct 13 12:03
schestowitzBut Iceland is part of Europe, AFAIK.Oct 13 12:03
EruaranohOct 13 12:03
duncanmvsee? good that he clarified to you before you run to talk bsOct 13 12:03
EruaranI think you perhaps meant 'Australiasia" ?Oct 13 12:03
duncanmvschestowitz: it is in the EU, not continental europe.Oct 13 12:03
schestowitzWell, yeah..Oct 13 12:04
duncanmvwell I think they are only in Shengen, not EUOct 13 12:04
duncanmvhowever where it is located is usually named Northern EuropeOct 13 12:04
schestowitzI think of the simplified classification of half a dozen continents.Oct 13 12:05
duncanmveven if it is not a single piece of landOct 13 12:05
EruaranAustraliasia covers Australia, New Zealand, and Pacific Islands like the Soloman Islands etc...Oct 13 12:06
EruaranAs a regionOct 13 12:06
*duncanmv leavesOct 13 12:07
duncanmvI hope you have the same balls to write than to rectify. Otherwise I would be highly dissapointed.Oct 13 12:08
EruaranWe wouldn't want to dissapoint any disgruntled Novell people now would we...Oct 13 12:09
schestowitzNow I need to please Novell too?Oct 13 12:10
schestowitzThis reminds me of how Microsoft contacted journalists who wrote something negative about them and asked for "a better article" to be written.Oct 13 12:11
schestowitzAs if it's some sort of a press buffet.Oct 13 12:11
duncanmvoh yeah, probably I was sent by my company here to blame youOct 13 12:32
duncanmvyou are not writing negative thingsOct 13 12:32
duncanmvget it, you are writing liesOct 13 12:32
schestowitzWhere?Oct 13 12:36
schestowitzShow me please so I can correct them.Oct 13 12:37
duncanmvit was the first two  or three lines when I joined the channelOct 13 12:49
duncanmv[12:58] <duncanmv> "a fork of into which they are pushing Microsoft’s OOXML support " -> upstream 3.0 has itOct 13 12:49
duncanmv[12:58] <duncanmv> "improvements to OO.o which aren’t often upstreamed to the main projec" -> when was it the last time you sent a patch to 13 12:49
schestowitzThat's no mistake.Oct 13 12:53
twitterThanks for getting and publishing  Simon Phipps' opinion.Oct 13 12:58
duncanmvthat is a mistake, you did not give an answer. If upstream has OOXML support, why would novell fork for that purpose? Sun is accepting any OOXML improvement upstream.Oct 13 12:58
twitterNovell would fork with M$'s ooxml that no one else can use to fuck everyone.Oct 13 12:59
twitterThat may be the M$ plan.Oct 13 13:00
twitterAs Benjie pointed out, all the distros already use go-ooo.orgOct 13 13:00
twitterIt's not really a big fuck but it makes a stink.Oct 13 13:00
schestowitzIt passes control.Oct 13 13:01
twitterIf Novell does cram M$ binary blobs into, the other distros will have to either fork again or go back to proper.Oct 13 13:01
twitterNovell then gets to say, "we have the better version, those people are at patent risk or don't have adequate ooxml support."Oct 13 13:02
twitterall very nasty.Oct 13 13:02
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twitterAs  schestowitz points out, they claim to have done this through "the community" even though they have people on pay doing it.Oct 13 13:03
twitterThe funny thing is that M$ and Novell have once again underestimated the power of community.  If has really made an easier to compile version with improvements that people like, the community can take it all back.Oct 13 13:05
twitterUltimately all M$'s schemes do is prove the power of freedom.  ACPI is a case in point. 13 13:07
twitterThey made ACPI to screw free software but free software now works as well or better than M$ does.  Few people in the Windows world use power management because it does not work for them.Oct 13 13:08
twitterOT 13 13:13
twitter October 2008 (US manual for crushing insurgencies)Oct 13 13:13
EruaranI wasn't aware that "all" the other distros were using go-ooOct 13 13:13
EruaranThat sounds a bit bizarre to meOct 13 13:13
twitter 13 13:13
twitterdebian is, I can't verify the rest of Benjie's claim but other distros are usually quicker to push non free crap.Oct 13 13:14
EruaranDebian is using go-oo ?Oct 13 13:15
EruaranI find that hard to believeOct 13 13:15
twittercheck the package pageOct 13 13:15
twitter lists as an external reference.Oct 13 13:17
schestowitztwitter: yes, the UK does this, but hardly publicises the fact.Oct 13 13:17
schestowitzThe Reg covered this about 4 months ago.Oct 13 13:17
schestowitzA friend of mine printed copies of the article and spread this around the neighbourhood. They want people not to realise they they live in a police state using the excuse of "war on terrorism"Oct 13 13:18
EruaranI don't see any reference to go-oo in the actual packagesOct 13 13:18
twitterThat would be good news.  I'm not qualified to judge.  Someone who knows could just look at the source code.Oct 13 13:19
schestowitzIn fact, 9/11 changed this for a lot of countries (and no, let's not get into conspiracies here). It enabled the Russians to get more violent in regions like Chechnya, it enabled the Chinese to suppress and use as an excuse others' suppression, it enabled violent action in the ME to increase... Any act of terror does this to people's rights. They become suspects.Oct 13 13:19
twitterYes, and political opposition, such as death penalty opponents, have been spied on as "terrorists"Oct 13 13:21
schestowitzFrom RMS : "Maryland Police put activists' names on terror lists. This included opponents of the death penalty and antiwar activists: a strage place to look for violence."Oct 13 13:22
schestowitz"Terrorists of peace"Oct 13 13:22
twitter:) The Wolf article is the most dangerous accusation.  Martial law was essentially in effect at the Republican National convention, where protesters were arrested before they protested.Oct 13 13:22
schestowitzI've just subscribed to RSS.Oct 13 13:23
schestowitzWhoz' day Stlamman guy nways?Oct 13 13:23
EruaranI watched the clips on youtubeOct 13 13:24
twitterRMS is worth reading.  I just check out his page every now and then.Oct 13 13:24
EruaranAnyone who thinks the US isn't already a police state has their head in the sandOct 13 13:24
schestowitzIt's 'too' political. In the same that he does not cover tech there.Oct 13 13:24
twitterHe covers things like ACTA.  Violations of rights are violations of rights to him and all injustices are equally important.Oct 13 13:25
schestowitz 13 13:28
twitterThe US need regime change, a government that recognizes and respects its constitution.Oct 13 13:39
schestowitzIt won't work.Oct 13 13:45
schestowitzThey need to change the forced that fund the candidates first. Until then, once someone is elected, there are favours to repay.Oct 13 13:45
schestowitz*forcesOct 13 13:45
twitter*farcesOct 13 13:46
duncanmvlol, you discovered that debian uses go-oo?Oct 13 13:49
duncanmvare you going to blog about that too? debian evils! or just say "I have been talking to much bs" :-POct 13 13:49
schestowitzThey follow the flock here, just like with MonoOct 13 13:51
twitterBenjie "discovered" it, which means it needs to be confirmed.Oct 13 13:51
schestowitz"These other people do this too, so maybe it's safe"Oct 13 13:51
schestowitzSheep effect does not v alidate a collective deedOct 13 13:52
twitterThey might be following their moral sense.  It SHOULD be safe.Oct 13 13:52
EruaranNot confirmed.Oct 13 13:52
duncanmv"debian is, I can't verify the rest of Benjie's claim but other distros are usually quicker to push non free crap." LOL, welcome to the troll's redefinition of non-free.Oct 13 13:53
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EruaranI was about to say something...Oct 13 13:54
EruaranThe go-oo site deliberately confuses thingsOct 13 13:56
schestowitzWell, it's a Novell siteOct 13 13:57
schestowitz"It was an interoperability deal."Oct 13 13:57
schestowitzDon't say the P wordOct 13 13:57
EruaranIt misrepresents apt-getting OpenOffice through Debian or Ubuntu repositories as sources for go-oo.Oct 13 13:58
EruaranReminiscent of the confusion caused for some people by Microsoft with "Office Open XML" the go-oo site uses go-oo and references to OOo in general, interchangebly.Oct 13 14:00
EruaranThat is deliberate, misleading and unethical.Oct 13 14:00
twitterLet me rephrase what I said for MVP Duncan, other distros are far less cautions than Debian and are often polluted with non free crap and other traps.Oct 13 14:03
EruaranThe go-oo site seems to represent this derived version of OOo as being 'freer' than OOo upstream while at the same time I get the sense that they are not being entirely forthcoming about how so much support for Microsoft products has been added so quickly (seemingly), with a reference to Word Perfect as a token. I'm sorry, but I smell a patent trap.Oct 13 14:08
schestowitzEruaran: yes, they were asked to change the name. Did they even listen? (rhetoric) So people started calling it Oh-Oh-XML.Oct 13 14:08
schestowitzEruaran: no, no patent trap. Just buy SLED and you'll be safe.Oct 13 14:09
EruaranOh, well thats ok then.. ;)Oct 13 14:10
schestowitzFor go-oo developers it's very much OKOct 13 14:10
schestowitzThat's what they are paid to do.Oct 13 14:10
EruaranIndeed.Oct 13 14:11
schestowitzThe US market is up today, just like the rest.Oct 13 14:11
schestowitzNOVL recovers with the rest. As for MSFT, no so much.Oct 13 14:12
schestowitzNovell was 50% higher some months ago.Oct 13 14:12
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schestowitzJust in: (  )Oct 13 14:13
schestowitzInfosys cuts forecastsOct 13 14:13
schestowitz ... Phishers adapt old scams to exploit bank turmoil 13 14:13
schestowitzThey should ask the govt. for funding: 13 14:17
*MinceR has quit (Nick collision from services.)Oct 13 14:18
*MinceR_ is now known as MinceROct 13 14:18
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schestowitzWashington DC latest to drop Microsoft for web apps 13 14:20
schestowitz...But.... Microsoft is not afraid of Google... Really! No really, Google is bad, just like Burtonsoft said in its 'report'.Oct 13 14:21
schestowitz"Just four years ago, Queen Elizabeth admitted she didn't own a computer as she bestowed an honorary knighthood on Microsoft's ex-chairman Bill Gates, but now she and her husband, the Duke of Edinburgh, are to grace Google's headquarters in London on 16 October.",1...Oct 13 14:22
EruaranI didnt realise the adoption of web apps replacing MS Office was so strongOct 13 14:25
schestowitzYes, it is.Oct 13 14:25
schestowitzActually, they lowball it a bit.Oct 13 14:25
schestowitzGoogle said several months ago that 1000000 (million) had adopted Apps. They keep a low profile about it, unlike Microsoft which issues brag PR.Oct 13 14:25
EruaranThat coupled with numbers using OOo makes an interesting scenarioOct 13 14:28
EruaranI'd like to see what is happening to M$'s profit from MS OfficeOct 13 14:29
*Eruaran muses on how one can potentially lose market share and yet see profits go upOct 13 14:34
trmanco 13 14:36
schestowitzEruaran: it declines.Oct 13 14:37
schestowitzLet me get the figures to back this (and that's despite price hikes /before/ the recession was even conceived)Oct 13 14:37
schestowitzRecent: "For, example, according to this report, there are now 12 million users in Brazil, representing fully 25% of the entire office market there."Oct 13 14:38
schestowitzThe Register had a readers poll last year. 20% used OOo.Oct 13 14:38
schestowitzI'm trying to find May Jo's article.Oct 13 14:39
schestowitz : Google Apps tops 1 million businessesOct 13 14:39
schestowitzFound it.Oct 13 14:39
schestowitzMicrosoft earnings post-mortem: The cash cows quiver : 13 14:39
EruaranthxOct 13 14:39
schestowitz"I can’t help but wonder if the lackluster Windows/Office results also can be  attributed to Microsoft brass’s complete and crazy obsession with Google (and  taking over Yahoo) has resulted in no one minding the Windows store. "Oct 13 14:40
schestowitzBallmer says Microsoft not immune from global crisis : 13 14:41
schestowitzI'm trying to find an article from the BBC, based on Microsoft's report that showed profits declining.Oct 13 14:41
schestowitzDebt in Disguise : 13 14:42
schestowitzMicrosoft's 10-Q on the impact of litigation : 13 14:42
Eruaranlink spam :POct 13 14:43
EruaranI can't keep up :DOct 13 14:44
schestowitzI can't find the BBC one.Oct 13 14:44
schestowitzThis one is old (from AU):,72... (Microsoft profit on slide)Oct 13 14:45
schestowitzI've finally found it: Microsoft sees slide in profits : 13 14:47
trmanco 13 14:47
Eruaranthanks for the linksOct 13 14:50
EruarangtgOct 13 14:50
Eruarangnite allOct 13 14:50
*Eruaran has quit (Remote closed the connection)Oct 13 14:51
schestowitzI've just noticed something...Oct 13 14:55
schestowitzEarlier this month from Remonk (open source analyst): ("The Forecast? Way More Microsoft")Oct 13 14:55
schestowitzRedmonk also employs this guy < > now.Oct 13 14:56
schestowitzI knew his name because Microsoft gave him one of those Vista-laptops-for-bloggers as a gist last year.Oct 13 14:57
schestowitzI also notice this way up in his blog: (  GreenMonk Interview with Rob Bernard, Microsoft’s Chief Environmental Strategist )Oct 13 14:58
schestowitzFor context, it's about them denying that having Microsoft as a client is an integrity question: 13 14:59
schestowitzAnd I never trust Cote either because he said some bad things about FOSS and his past employer is proprietary software, IIRC>Oct 13 15:00
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twitterM$ always predicts more M$.  You would think they could be classy about it like McDonalds and just brag, "billions and billions served"Oct 13 15:47
twitterImagine McDs saying, "on every desktop a big mac."Oct 13 15:48
schestowitzIt hypnotises CIOs.Oct 13 15:49
schestowitz"Microsoft will always be there."Oct 13 15:49
trmancothe site is being hammeredOct 13 15:49
schestowitzEVERYONE/ chooses (*ahem* has not choice but) Microsoft, so it must be good.Oct 13 15:49
twitterNothing lasts forever.  No one wants Vista and people hate the new Office as we are discussing.Oct 13 15:50
schestowitzJust got an E-mail about it, trmanco Oct 13 15:51
twitterThe US market is crazy volatile.  Up 4% instantly, up nearly 7% by noon.Oct 13 15:51
schestowitz"OOo site has crashed with the 3.0 release. Just a thought, could hackers send millions of download inquires to  cause this?"Oct 13 15:51
trmancocoolOct 13 15:51
schestowitzUbuntu always falls down when it releases, but if there's an investigation... there's unlikely to be 'hacking'Oct 13 15:52
schestowitzSun releases at a good time.Oct 13 15:52
schestowitzHomes and businesses are panicky after last week.Oct 13 15:52
trmancoits like the firefox release, but no Guinness recordOct 13 15:52
schestowitzThey won't rush out for a dual-core with ribbonware and MOOXOct 13 15:53
twitterDoS attack?  Very likely.Oct 13 15:53
schestowitzWho from?Oct 13 15:53
schestowitzNot likely.Oct 13 15:53
schestowitzBTW, BN gets a lot of traffic today.Oct 13 15:53
schestowitzI don't know where from.Oct 13 15:53
twitterThe kind of duchebags that troll and crapflood every free software forum in the world, that's who.Oct 13 15:54
twitterThey use botnets to disguise their identity and spam their enemies.  Don't you think they also DoS popular sites at critical times?Oct 13 15:55
schestowitzIt would take a lot of skills to cause that to OOorgOct 13 15:55
schestowitztwitter: they do sometimes.Oct 13 15:55
twitterReally?  I thought bot herding was for drooling morons.Oct 13 15:55
schestowitzThat's why Windows might need a quarantine/eradication. There are 320 million zombies out there. It's a mess. The Net needs 'rebooting' with clean s/w.Oct 13 15:56
schestowitztwitter: well, some 15 year-old runs huge botnets too (hundreds of thousands of PCs)Oct 13 15:57
schestowitzTo combat this they need more they costly FBI investigations.Oct 13 15:57
schestowitzMy site was DDOSed in 2005Oct 13 15:58
twitterIf they can do it, Bill Gates can pay better people to do worse.  I won't call this a skill.Oct 13 15:58
twitterI talked to an FBI cyber crime agent a couple of years ago - Largely clueless and M$ poisoned mindset.  "No OS is more secure than others."  "Run Virus Scans" that kind of thing.Oct 13 15:59
twitterThey understood there was a problem but did not understand the solution.Oct 13 16:00
twitterThe M$ defenders say it is "impractical" to replace broken software.Oct 13 16:00
schestowitzYesOct 13 16:00
schestowitzAbout the FBIOct 13 16:00
schestowitzThe US govt people use Windows on desktops.Oct 13 16:01
schestowitzIncreasingly Linux on servers.Oct 13 16:01
schestowitzBut they justify their own choices of MSWord and such stuff by saying "everything else is Equally Bad^TM"Oct 13 16:01
twitterMany in the US Government know better.  They increasingly use SE Linux and other things when it matters.Oct 13 16:02
schestowitzIt's a thought Microsoft rereinforces: there is nothing better to find out there, so stick with usOct 13 16:02
twitterI know, it always matters...Oct 13 16:02
schestowitzWorld BankOct 13 16:02
schestowitzPlease, could you help me find out what they useOct 13 16:02
schestowitzThey said they had spyware and I doubt someone put a Linux rootkit on  their boxesOct 13 16:04
trmancothis month I will try to increase Ooo adoption in my school, I will start with my noob classmates, and I'll see how it goesOct 13 16:04
schestowitzAlso to find out: see how Microsoft trashes and sabotages OOo launchOct 13 16:05
schestowitzIt always does something like that, as it did with VMware's big party and also with PS3 launch parties.Oct 13 16:05
schestowitzIt sometimes used other companies to do the trashing and I suspect Novell deserves a pointing finger this time around.Oct 13 16:05
PetoKrausumm, Beranger has good articles todayOct 13 16:05
PetoKraus*has gotOct 13 16:05
twitterAh ha, google has a "filetype:" filter.Oct 13 16:06
schestowitzIn fact, from what I saw in Sun, Novell timed this attack deliberately to make a publicity stunt.Oct 13 16:06
twitter 153,000 M$.DOCOct 13 16:06
twitter0 odfOct 13 16:06
trmanco?Oct 13 16:06
trmancono odf docs?Oct 13 16:07
schestowitzOOorg still downOct 13 16:08
twitterGoogle does not seem to track odf, png and many other formats.  Bummer.Oct 13 16:08
schestowitzYou do it wrong.Oct 13 16:08
PetoKrausis there a changelog mirrored somewhere?Oct 13 16:08
schestowitzThere are other ways of counting it.Oct 13 16:08
schestowitzPetoKraus: go to the mirrors directly.Oct 13 16:09
twitterI hope so.Oct 13 16:09
schestowitzI'll post links in BN actually.Oct 13 16:09
twitterI wish they supported normal search patterns like doc$Oct 13 16:09
PetoKrausschestowitz: i'd like to see the changelog only, you have it?Oct 13 16:10
schestowitz 13 16:10

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